Hilo del juego: 11 de Junio, Braves en Astros

Hola, Señor Tomason quisiera que fijara otro “hilo del juego” porque él dice soy buena suerte “para una vez”. No sé de lo que él está hablando, pero como Keith Lockhart, estoy allí para el Braves cualquier momento él me necesita.

253 thoughts on “Hilo del juego: 11 de Junio, Braves en Astros”

  1. El hilo del juego en espanol traiga suerte a los Bravos de Atalanta.
    Odio mucho a Roger Clemens i Los Astros de Houston porque se chupan trasero. Perdona mi lenguaje sucio..

  2. According to Yahoo…Giles is back leading off today…Jordan at first…Betemit back to the bench…while Brian bats 8th.

    Can someone explain this to me..

  3. Cox keeps Jordan around because he gets big hits against the Mets — that’s the only reason.

  4. Everyone thinks we can just stick Betemit at first, but that’s not the case. Betemit has no experience there and it appears many people think it’s so easy you can just stick anyone there and they’ll be good. I’m so glad Cox is manager and not some who will not be named.

  5. I don’t have a problem with Jordan at first..I know that playing first is no easy task..especially when you don’t have experience.

    I’m just wondering why Brian’s batting 8th..

  6. If McCann is playing, you put Jordan at #8. If not, then Pratt should be number 8 (or #9 when Thomson or Ramirez is pitching.)

  7. yea, we’re better off sticking a career outfielder who is 1 for his last 25 at first. genius remark dan. and by your remarks on the last thread, i am sure i am one of the “not named”. first is by far the easiest transaction to make of all the positions (except maybe left), and i am pretty sure that betemit would be better the first time he played first than jordan would be with 1,000 games under his belt. i think by saying what you just said you knew people were going to attack you. are you ny mets in disguise?

  8. Betemit still has no experience there. If you want to put Betemit there, wouldn’t you agree he needs some practice there first? Some seem to want to just throw him in there today never having played there.

  9. I just heard on the radio that McCann is batting at number 8 and will be the only left-handed hitter in the line-up, aside from Ramirez of course.

  10. career outfield to first- difficult, journeyman infielder to first- easy. i think he would be fine. what would be the harm in trying him over there without experience? it cant be worse than jordan. no possible way. i would rather sacrifice a couple of games (if that is what it would even take) to get betemit some shots at first than to sacrifice a whole year with lajordache holding it down. personally, i dont think we would be sacrificing anything considering neither laroche or jordan have been good.

  11. That’s why i clarified it at post #6…that I meant McCann at the 8th spot

    Ah well…let’s hope for the best today again

  12. Does Brian McCann have some sort of disorder associated with this ankle injury that means he needs less at-bats or something? Why the hell is he batting 8th? If this continues I am seriously going to break something. Dumb, dumb, dumb. He won’t even get good pitches in that spot. What the hell, Bobby.

  13. On top of that jenny, WHY the frick is Giles the leadoff hitter today?????@?

    I am so freaking pissed off. When is bobby going to realize that Giles is not a leadoff hitter? Put Betemit back in leadoff and Giles down in the 8th spot until he starts to hit better. Seriously WTF!

    And Andruw grounds into another doubleplay.

  14. Dan, that start Betemit had at 2nd base yesterday was only his second start there EVER. He is extremely versatile. I think he wouldn’t have any problems adjusting to 1st base.

  15. And after that play Jordan just made I don’t think Betemit could do any worse.

  16. I was kidding yesterday when I said that we’d see Mccann batting 8th today. And Jordan in the game. And Betemit on the bench.
    Folks, Bobby’s lost it.

  17. My lineup would read like this:

    1. Betemit
    2. Renteria
    3. C. Jones
    4. A. Jones
    5. McCann
    6. Giles
    7. Francouer
    8. Langerhans

  18. Giles, Jordan GMAFB…

    HoRam scared to throw strikes.

    The misery, the horror…….

  19. What’s most confusing is that after yesterday, Bobby came out and said he’d be getting Betemit more at bats. He and Mccann are the only guys hitting now, and Betemit’s on the bench while Mccann, almost leading the NL in hitting, is batting 8th, Todd Pratt usually bats.
    This has turned into a nightmare.
    I’m calling for Bobby’s retirement starting today.

  20. i hate brian jordan (as a player). if you think betemit would do worse at first than him, dan, you have lost it.

  21. Ok, I am sorry to be beating a dead horse here but GOD WTF.

    Jordan costs us a run when he shouldn’t be even in the damn game.

    What the hell is Bobby’s problem. Put BETEMIT IN THE GAME!

    Seriously, Bobby has never been more frustrating.

  22. WOOOHOOO I know that game yesterday was a mirage!

    Now that Jordan error is that much more costly not to mention it kills HoRam’s streak of 3 good games.

  23. I feel like crying. This is so depressing.

    For the first time in 16 years I have lost faith in Bobby’s managerial skills.

  24. It almost seems like a big defacto FU to Time-Warner by Bobby. IOW, you give me this slop, I’ll show your asses.

  25. Yeah, I don’t see many Cox supporters these days.
    It’s bad enough we have one starter, no bullpen, no 1b, no LF and no leadoff hitter, but now with Bobby developing Alzheimer’s disease, things can’t be worse.

  26. 216…. HAHAHAHAHAHAHH wtf is bobby smoking@LJ@L:jQ Lkwjeg’RWJKGL;SFJD
    SDKGS
    FDMHGSLDL’
    DAHNFL’HBS
    D’

  27. LOL , is he really? I’m watching on mlb t.v. so I don’t get to hear the tbs game. What is Pete saying?

  28. He’s trying to play the company line to explain why a guy hitting .359 is batting 8th.

  29. The way this is going, if we do get a lead, I’ll bet everyone on here $5 that Reitsma gets in the game.

  30. You’d have to pay ME to take that bet with the way Bobby is managing right now.

  31. I think it’s apparent now that this lineup has NEVER worked, so the opposing pitcher doesn’t really matter.

  32. The astro’s announcers are morons. Every game they talk about how they are playing so much better lately. NO you are NOT! It’s the Braves that are playing so much worse that make you look good.

  33. HoRam and Brian are our only hopes in this line-up the way things are going…and they’re batting 8th and 9th..

  34. Do you realize if Betemit was playing first today, like he should be, that would have been only the first run allowed by HoRam.

  35. That’s b/c Matt Diaz is not a left fielder. We have a lot of guys playing today that really have no position and should be bench guys at BEST–yet they start for us.

  36. Seriously, we are cursed. The gods are conspiring against us to end our run of division titles.

  37. I’ve watched this team since march, and we don’t have one player who seems to care about winning games. They hoped to push the ‘autopilot’ button and cruise this year, and we’re reeling b/c there are other teams in the east who actually want to win.
    This is a disaster from JS down, and I don’t see a solution in sight.

  38. That ball just ricocheted off HoRam’s head. He went down like a limp noodle.
    Poor kid.

  39. Poor Horacio? He walked the pitcher and forgot that craig biggio is 50 yrs old.
    Don’t want him hurt, but I’m glad he’s gone.

  40. Brad, 4 of those runs were not his. Game would be tied right now if not for Jordan. Even the Astro’s announcers said that. So put your blame elsewhere.

  41. Does Pete ever shut the hell up? I never remember his talking to much. Jesus, he’s making me miss Rathbun and Torborg.

  42. Not tied, but 3-1 at the most. If he had a better first without the jordan error who knows how well he would have done.

  43. Horacio didn’t look good all game. He’s one of the many players we have who is either great or terrible…he’ll either throw a 3 hit shutout or give up 7 runs.
    The misplay by jordan hurt, but he could have regrouped and not given up a HR. Or let the pitcher get on. Or let Biggio kick his ass again.

  44. “Game would be tied right now if not for Jordan.”

    NO REASON WHATSOEVER that Jordan should have not caught that.

    And that there is exactly why you play LaRoche, even against left-handed pitchers.

  45. I’m not satisfied he’s hurt, but if that hadn’t happened, he’d still be out there are would have given up 10 runs. I’m not kidding.
    Not that it matters. We’re done.

  46. Also, how utterly classless was it for that guy to go home after Francoeur’s throw went past Chipper, who wasn’t paying attention?

  47. Was he supposed to just stop in the middle of the play? It’s not his fault Francouer hasn’t hit a cutoff man since 2005.

  48. Chipper president!

    (Would have been a two run homer if not for that bad strike three call from that umpire.)

  49. Give me Stockman, Thorman, Brayan Pena for backup, Startup and the rest can go somewhere else and die.

  50. I’ll say it again…poor Horacio.

    First Jordan forgets one of the basics of baseball..catching a ball. That ofcourse leads to 4 runs. Then..HoRam tries to help his cause..by getting a walk…only to have Marcus end the inning again.
    Then Berkman plays target practice with his head…come on..the kid deserved better.

    Yeah..maybe he’d be out there giving up 10 runs..but I rather have him out there then any of that junk we have in the pen

  51. They loved calling up guys last year–it was their favorite thing to do. Why not this year? Maybe we’ll strike gold again.

  52. Jordan 2004 OPS .638. Jordan 2005 OPS .632, and we dump him because we have an eye-witness view of the fact he is done. What do we do? We bring him back, to play 1B, a hitter’s position. What does he give us? At this moment, a .638 OPS.

    I guess I blame Jordan for not having the skills he once did. But who in the heck is responsible for (a) giving him a roster spot; and (b) trotting him out there for another (on pace for) 200 AB’s?

    Oh my goodness, what a surprise-Brian Jordan can’t hit any more? Why didn’t someone tell me?

  53. The jordan misplay didn’t lead to 4 runs. The terrible pitch to the terrible batter did.
    I’ve seen pitchers recover after errors and get out of the inning. A bad play by a guy who isn’t even a 1B isn’t a license to keep pitching like crap.
    I’m sorry he got decapitated, but he didn’t have it today.

  54. Bobby loves giving players past their prime, at bats. It’s his way of donating to charity.

  55. Mac, McCann, our #8 hitter, threw down to 1st as Biggio was scrambling back, and had him picked off for the 3rd out. Jordan dropped the ball, biggio was safe, and horacio promptly gave up a 3-run HR.

  56. “I didn’t actually see it — what did Jordan do in the first inning?”

    Drop a ball that was in his glove after a strike out and has Biggio between first and second.

    And Villarreal strikes again!

  57. I agree with #98. That is why we started with 2 corner outfielders that coiuldn’t play any more last year. I think the fact that we recovered from that to win it sowed the seeds for this year’s struggles. JS and Bobby believed thy could get away with anything, start the season at game 60, and work from there. Thus, we have a 1B we platoon who cannot play the game any more.

    It is the Bill James theory on why successful franchises fail; they begin to believe their own BS.

  58. I’m serious, guys, Bobby’s lost it.
    I’m not kidding, I’m actually worried that all this has gone to his head.

  59. Good theory, bfan. I agree.
    For years they’ve waited until June to start playing, thinking they get a free pass to have a 3-month spring training. I knew that one of these years a good team would come in and play well all year, and by the time we start ‘our season’, we’re 10+ games back and it’s too late.

  60. Take it easy bfan, we did actually win all those division with our BS tactics. How does your messiah Bill James account for that?

  61. Those two runs went away quickly.

    Villarreal keeps proving he can’t pitch. What the hell will it take for Cox to see that!?

  62. I’d trade all those division titles for a few more WS titles. 15 in a row won’t mean jack to me if we lose another playoff series with a flawed team.

  63. Yeah I would trade 14 division titles for a few more World Series titles too.

  64. Dan,

    He doesn’t have anyone else any better. He probably just put names in a hat and drew.

  65. You guys are ridiculous. The Braves always play before June. We just have happened to make bad starts, but we’ve always done one thing that makes this organization the best. Since 1991, we’ve never thrown in the towel. We never sell off our players at the deadline and we put ourselves in a position to play an ENTIRE season. I applaud and value the Braves position of never giving up during the season and playing all the way through. Cox doesn’t just give up on players because naive fans are unhappy with his immediate production. He knows how to manage a season better than we could and much better than Bill James could. Questioning the “BS” of our organization is questioning 15 years of success.

    You guys are full of it. I expect more from fans of a team who’ve come back so many times…

  66. If anything, this makes Cox look even better. For years we’ve had bad teams that he’s done well with.
    Now we see what happens when a bad team gets bad management.

  67. Raoul. When you play people hitting 216 in place of a proven fielder hitting over 300, who you said you were going to find ways to play everyday, and bat your best hitter in the 8th spot it’s time to start questioning our managers decisions.

  68. well, we won our titles for a couple of reasons.

    First, we were the big market/big money team for several years. We always got the big free agent in the off-season, and we won because we were the NL version of the yankees. I know that not every team who spends the most wins it, but that was how we kept it going for a while.

    Second, we were either lucky enough or good enough to have a core of Chipper; Andruw; Glavine; and Smoltz come up at about the same time, so they had their age 25-30 years together. You have a core of 4 hall of famers, and you can fill in the rest with average, and come out okay. We were able to buy great free agent talent, or be the team that could take on big payroll in trades (Maddox; Jordan; McGriff), and with that core and the most money to spend, we were just plain better than everyone else.

    Look, we were smart enough not to screw that situuation up, and many teams would have screwed it up, but we didn’t win titles because we took past their prime hiotters and made great players out of them; we won in spite of trying to do that. Now that the corew is older and merely very good, and we don’t have more money to spend than everyone else, things aren’t working out as well.

  69. You actually see this team ‘coming back’? Have you not been watching? This team is a disaster on almost every level, while the Mets are loaded and the philles aren’t bad either. Heck, we just lost 2/3 to the nationals, the team we’re closest to.
    And just ‘because we’re the braves’, we’re going to magically start winning?
    Delusional.

  70. 4 runs in the first..3 in the 2nd…2 in the 3rd…if it keeps up like this..the Astros will only get 1 run the next inning. A moral victory

  71. This game is as close to a nightmare as you can get. The Braves score and promptly give it right back.

  72. I wouldn’t trade any of our success in Atlanta for WS titles. Our organization is not dominant and hasn’t been since 1996. The Braves aren’t going to be a powerhouse until more money is spent. I’m so proud of what Atlanta has accomplished as the club has made a transition from powerhouse to somewhat above average in terms of resources.

    Atlanta relies on scouting and quality managing to get into the playoffs. We haven’t done much damage lately because we aren’t a dominant team. We can’t pretend we’re something we’re not. And we’re not a perennial WS threat.

    I enjoy watching the young Braves scrap, that’s what our team is now and to moan about other, significantly different possibilities is futile.

  73. And no one is saying to give up and start selling off players. We can actually win this division if our asleep GM would wake up and start making some moves to improve the team, like every real GM in baseball.
    Even the players are starting to ask when he’s going to do something.

  74. And our leadoff hitter continues to strikeout/groundout.
    I want to punch Bobby in the face. I don’t blame Giles, he isn’t a leadoff hitter and he never asked to be one.

  75. So with Pedro Martinez pitching against Russ Ortiz, is there anyone who thinks we won’t be ten games back after today?

  76. IF you think this team has scrapped, then you’ve never been in the military/part of a team/outmanned before.

    This team would lose a fight with Glass Joe.

  77. “I wouldn’t trade any of our success in Atlanta for WS titles”

    well, you’re missing the point of baseball, which is to win the world series.

    Heck, the Marlins have more than we do in the last 20 years.

  78. Well, the Braves have had the fortune of competing in a division where all the other teams have been pretty badly mismanaged for the most part. I’m not sure if they could have had their run in any other division in baseball; maybe the AL central. I think counting on a Mets swoon this year is probably a bad strategy — they’re very well balanced and their offense is only now kicking into gear — but if Pedro or Glavine go down for a period, I guess it could happen.

  79. Raoul no offense but you are crazy.

    I would trade any “success” for a world series championship. No success compares to a WS championship.
    Anyone who wouldn’t is insane.

  80. I completely disagree with Brad. Our division titles DO mean something, even if we don’t do anything in the playoffs.

    Division titles matter because every single day in Braves baseball matters? Who else can say that about their club? Not many.

  81. The stupid thing is that we have a guy sitting on the bench hitting over .300 who went 3/4 yesterday, runs well, fields well, has power, and is willing to do anything to help the team.
    And he can’t get an at-bat.

  82. Brad, I’ve been bitching about that the entire game. Where have you been? ;)

  83. I don’t even count a season AS a success unless they win the WS. Why would you unless that’s no longer the goal, which I’m afraid has become our problem.

  84. Well, Pedro goes down once a year, right?

    Anyways, my hopes aren’t up right now. It’s sad when you DREAD watching games….but in the end they’re only games.

  85. I’ve been here bitching too after every wasted marcus at bat.
    Betemit deserves better.

  86. The goal is for the bottom line for Time Warner to be good for them. There are no other goals, alas.

    The baseball outcomes are strictly secondary.

  87. Yeah, and that’s really the bigger issue here.
    But still, even with that, JS and Cox should be doing better.

  88. Well in his defense I think they are wasted because he isn’t a leadoff hitter. I don’t think it’s a natural batting position for him and it’s screwing up his entire game.

  89. Obviously WS titles are better, but I would rather be the Braves than the Marlins.

    The Braves matter EVERY day and the Marlins have mattered for two seasons. I wouldn’t trade our run for the Marlins run for anything. This run has been a joy.

    Baseball means A LOT MORE than WS titles, I’m sorry. You people who say the WS is everything are crazy. Baseball and the Braves mean MUCH MUCH MORE than a WS trophy that means jack six months after its won.

  90. Right, which isn’t his fault and why I’m not blaming him.
    I’ve been saying all game (and year) that Cox is killing us.

  91. If a WS trophy doesnt mean anything after 6 months, what does a division title mean?
    Look, I’ve enjoyed the run as much as anyone. And I suppose it had to end sometime.
    I just wanted it to end with a bang, a close race, to a better team.
    Not like this.

  92. Wow, imagine if Reteria had someone who could get on base in front of him. We would actually score more than 3-4 runs per game.

  93. It seems like the people tearing down JS and Cox are extremely spoiled and unrealistic. Be thankful for the fact that for 15 straight years, including this one, the Braves have mattered. Not even the YANKESS can say that.

    The reason WB sits is because Chipper, Renteria, and Giles are all better players. WB is awesome and has some good numbers, but like Cox, I wouldn’t sit either of three mentioned for Betemit. Some would say move him positionally, but that’s easier said than done for an infielder without much foot speed.

  94. I’m very confused. Your team loses 9 of 11 games, so you mix up the lineup and it works and you win. So instead of building some momentum, you go RIGHT BACK to the lineup that lost 9/11?
    Why, bobby?

  95. I’d have even more respect for Cox or whoever if they’d free Chuck James and Wilson Betemit.

  96. “The reason WB sits is because Chipper, Renteria, and Giles are all better players”

    You’re going to have to explain to me how Giles is better, at least at this point. He’s hitting .239!

  97. “If a WS trophy doesnt mean anything after 6 months, what does a division title mean?
    Look, I’ve enjoyed the run as much as anyone. And I suppose it had to end sometime.
    I just wanted it to end with a bang, a close race, to a better team.
    Not like this.”

    What a sad state of affairs. You guys are already throwing in the towel. Do me a favor and hide yourself if the Braves come back this season. This resigned fatalism on the behalf of most Braves fans is sickening. Spoiled brats caring more about the final score than the actual team and organization. We’d all like to win, but seriously, some of you need to grow up.

  98. Raoul……. you ARE crazy. Betemit had his 2nd ever start at 2nd base yesterday and he did that well. The guy is so versatile that I would take his glove at first over Jordan ANY DAY! And I would take his glove at second over Giles because Giles isn’t hitting and his defense this year has been
    subpar for him.

    We won yesterday with Betemit at second, in place of Giles. And what did Betemit do? He only went 3/4 and made a couple nice plays at second. So I don’t know what world you are living in but it’s not reality.

  99. Brad, Giles has played more than one season. Lineup decision aren’t made like they are in fantasy baseball. These are real humans with histories, not numbers over a two-month period.

  100. Grow up? We’re mad b/c we want the run to keep going and we’ve seen NO signs that that’s going to happen. All those who live under the delusions of the past and are sitting back waiting on the mets to lose need to let that go.
    They’re hungry, balanced, and are just a better team.
    That doesnt mean I hate the braves. It means we’re getting buried this year and no one is doing anything about it.

  101. Histories? So every time giles wastes an at bat, we’re supposed to just be thankful that he was pretty good in 2003?
    Dude, get a grip.

  102. Ok so if the Braves lose horribly this year what are you going to do Raoul?
    If we should go hide if they win what are you going to do if they lose?

  103. I’m not delusional, it’s not looking good at all, and I’m not banking on anything.

    But I’m also not about to give up on my team in mid-June. And, yes, especially not when the Mets are in the lead.

  104. Hmmm….Raoul, I think you and I are in snyc when it comes to the spirit of the game. I mean, I’d love for the Braves to make it to the postseason, and although I’ve been very pessimistic, I still think they have a chance.

    Although I’d like to see JS make a move or two.

  105. Dear Marcus,
    I know you’re not a leadoff hitter, thus reflected by your .239 batting average. And even though you’re taking the spot of a guy hitting over .300 with speed and power, I just wanted to thank you for the last few years. In fact, that will buy you a starting job the rest of the year!
    Congrats!

  106. I’m not “giving up” on anyone. I’m just pissed off about the decisions being made. Big difference there.

  107. I have ‘given up’ on this particular group of guys doing anything this year. Giles, laroche, reitsma, etc. Done.
    I wish our GM would change things up so we’d have some hope again this season.

  108. “What a sad state of affairs. You guys are already throwing in the towel. Do me a favor and hide yourself if the Braves come back this season. This resigned fatalism on the behalf of most Braves fans is sickening. Spoiled brats caring more about the final score than the actual team and organization. We’d all like to win, but seriously, some of you need to grow up.”

    huh…in baseball..in sports in general…is the FINAL SCORE the most important thing? Isn’t having a higher final score what gets you the division titles..and world series titles?
    I’m sorry Raoul..you lost me on that one

  109. I’m going to remain loyal to the JS and Cox and all they’ve given me. I’m not going to tear them down because a season didn’t go are way.

    We’re fortunate to be Braves fans, we’re not entitled to Glory.

    You get a grip, brad. This isn’t fantasy baseball or PS2. Managerial decisions are based on a lot more than observing games on TV. Giles has been an amazing player for a couple of years. His peak performances are much better than that of Betemit. He’s done a lot to keep the Braves on top. You don’t forget that because a guy’s having a good season off the bench. I’m sorry, but real managers know this.

  110. “I wish our GM would change things up so we’d have some hope again this season.”

    But the Braves are “built to win.”

  111. Brad,

    I hate to disagree, but the Marlins’ 2 titles & 10 sub-.500 finishes don’t add up with the Braves’ success in my book.

    I’d rather have a generation of great seasons & October baseball than spend a decade of dead Julys, Augusts & Septembers. That’s just me.

    I lived through the Braves’ Roland Office Era & I did the dead Jul/Aug/Sep thing. Gimme meaningful games & October baseball, even if we lose the last game.

  112. NO, it’s NOT the most important thing.

    If this is your logic, than you’re a Braves fan because they win. Cheer for the Tigers this year then!

    YOU’RE lost! And a hypocrite. If winning was everything, you’d have left being a Braves fan long ago. We’ve had way too many WS heartbreaks for our fans to be only about WINNING!

  113. “Red Sox, Yankees and Blue Jays will probably be the Braves’ death knell.”

    Bullshit fatalism. Can a Braves fan even make this statement?

  114. Well, reitsma did a lot the last few years to help too. He set up smoltz way back when and did fine.
    Thus, for his service in 2004, he shouldn’t be given up on.
    And Jordan–he really helped us back in 1999. Heck of a player. Thus, he should start again now in 2006.
    And todd pratt–i think he had one good year for the mets back in 1997. So he should definitely be starting this year.
    You’re losing me on what past perfomance means to this year’s success. Betemit has outperformed Giles in every category this year, and even your savior Bobby came out yesterday and said he’d HAVE to get him more at bats, so this isn’t just me.

  115. The bright side if we really play lousy is we’ll get to pick in the Top 5-10 of the MLB draft next June and maybe get a franchise player. We haven’t drafted one of those since 1990(Chipper).

    Francoeur is not a franchise player, either and I don’t think he ever will be. Way too many warts.

  116. I’m not saying I’d trade our run for the marlins’. I’m just saying that the whole organization has fallen into the trap of thinking that winning the division equals success. Maybe in 1992, or maybe now for the tigers. But we’ve DONE that. At some point, shouldn’t your measuring stick be higher?

  117. First of all Raoul..I’ve been a fan since before this run. If winning was THAT important to me..I wouldn’t have stuck through it. I’d be a Yankee fan now..

    Second..I mean..winning is important for the ORGANIZATION!!!
    Which organization wants to go out and LOSE????????

    None..that’s why you play..and practice..and spend money…and make trades…to improve…and Win..

  118. You’re example is weak. Jordan and Pratt are MUCH further removed from their successes. Retisma is also a middle reliever. The fact that he’s in the pen and not a starter doesn’t allow for anyone to ever think he was a great player. He’s never been a good closer, except for a month last year.

    Giles has been a HUGE part of our core for the past three/four seasons. If Giles hadnt been good for several seasons, then yeah, give up on him.

  119. Thanks, Rob J, I appreciate that. I know their are Braves fans who feel like I do. Thankful and not entitled.

  120. Reitsma being named a closer doesn’t make him one, just like Giles being named a leadoff hitter doesnt make him one. He’s there by default b/c we lost our real leadoff guy. I don’t want him executed–he did fine batting 2nd. I want betemit leading off, where he’s had much more success, then you can move giles back to 2nd and everything else falls into place.

  121. “The bright side if we really play lousy is we’ll get to pick in the Top 5-10 of the MLB draft next June and maybe get a franchise player. We haven’t drafted one of those since 1990(Chipper).

    Francoeur is not a franchise player, either and I don’t think he ever will be. Way too many warts.”

    Another BS resignation.

    BTW, Francouer definitely has the talent to become a franchise player. We’re making conclusions now after about a season of play?

  122. But again, that would require creativity and flexibility from cox, so I don’t expect much.

  123. Well, if this is any consolation, the Astros haven’t scored in a while. Maybe if our offense can keep scratching out some runs today…..

  124. Brad, where does WB play if Giles is in the lineup too? 1B? Do we even know whether WB can play 1B in the majors?

  125. Brad,

    From my perspective, finishing in first place, by definition, equals success. I don’t know how you can call it anything else. What do you think the Mets, Phillies, Marlins and Expo/Nats call it? What do you think the Dodgers, Rockies, Giants, or Padres call it? What do you think the Cardinals, Cubs, Pirates, Brewers & Astros call it?

    Do you think the Braves are happy to lose in the playoffs? Do you think the Braves are trying to lose in the playoffs?

    If not, then I don’t understand your position. Sorry.

  126. No, we don’t know if he can. But we DO know that Jordan can’t. So he should at LEAST be playing there when laroche isnt.

  127. BREAKING NEWS! Brian Jordan might be the worst baseball player in the game. I can’t think of anything he does well.

  128. I think JS should hire brad as our manager. I’d certainly change 15 years of UNPRECEDENTED success for a real live know-it-all. That’d work.

  129. Actually, brad would be bench coach. Alex R. is really our best bet as manager. Everyone knows that…

  130. so according to raoul we should just say, “doggone it, these guys sure do try”. it is our right to bitch about managerial decisions. this makes us less of a braves fan? you can remain loyal but the fact is there is some poor management going on, and furthur, there is some poor general managing going on . dont pull the wool over your eyes raoul. fans are emotional and reactional and that is just sports. i’m sorry everyone cant see the “big picture”.

  131. I define success by winning the world series. I guess I think like the yankees.
    It’s not BAD to finish in first, but there’s more to a season. When we’ve finished first and lost in the first round of the playoffs, I don’t count that season as a success.

  132. well, I can explain a part of the anger/tone. It is clear that this team’s time is running out; the core is getting past theuir prime. the question was whether you could squeeze maybe one more title out of Chipper; Andruw; Smoltz, or bust it up, and build to make another run.

    The Renteria trade for one of the top 5 prospects of the game (Marte) was an indication by management that they felt they could squeeze one more shot out of this group on board now, and were willing to give up something of value maybe 2 years from now, for that one more run.

    Then, what does management do? They run out a great person but washed up player at an important hitting position, and watch him porform to the level he did when they dumped him last year, when there are minor league options avaialable.

    They keep running out a relief pitcher who apparantley has lost the ability to get out MLB batters, and lose games because of it, when there are minor league options available.

    That my friend, is frustrating.

  133. You’re assuming WB is better at 1B than Jordan without knowing, that wouldn’t be a good managerial decision.

    I think Jurries should get his shot. Does anyone know how Jurries is responding in the minors?

  134. IF you think Francouer = an A-Rod, Tejada, Pujols etc. you’re delusional.

  135. You are just as bad as he is in your own way Raoul. Pot calling the kettle black.

  136. I am better at first right now than brian jordan and I haven’t played since I was 9.
    Like I said, heeeere’s reitsma!
    This keeps getting better.

  137. Pujols went from OF, to 3B to 1B. And if he can do it..so can Wilson. Granted Wilson doesn’t have his bat..no one in baseball does..but if Albert can play first..we can atleast try Wilson there.

    It’s better than Jordan there…that’s for sure

  138. Guys, don’t give up on reitsma. He’s a good guy and has been a vital part of our success the last few years.

  139. Actually now that I think about it raoul, your’re exactly right. You’d be a good bench coach for bobby.
    How else to explain why you’d keep a guy with a 7.00+ era this long? We’ve already gotten rid of guys with better era’s and we’re keeping reitsma b/c of your mentality.

  140. My point, ryan c, is that NONE of us know more than Cox and JS. We’re all sitting around here self-righeously making assertions. All this know-it-all BS is tiresome.

    I’m 100% sure JS and Cox are doing a better job than the low-brow pundits typing on this site. That’s just me, though…

  141. A grand slam put’s Reitsma’s ERA right at 9:00; I bet Bobby will sit up and take notice at that point.

  142. Yeah, one at bat a game is a good sample size. Heck, he went 3-4 yesterday and got OUT ONCE. By all means, sit him down.

  143. worst pitcher in the game. but, can i say that or does that make me less of a braves fan? and yes, betemit, without practice would be better than jordan, and no i dont have any research to prove it, just common freakin’ sense. what’s the harm in trying betemit there? as i type, reitsma gives up 4 straight hits and still has noone out.
    Ab f’n surd.

  144. “Guys, don’t give up on reitsma. He’s a good guy and has been a vital part of our success the last few years.”

    See, Brad this would be funny if I said this. You’re sarcasm is weak because you’re making things up. I’m actually criticizing your ACTUAL statements.

  145. You said not to give up on marcus, who may be hitting less than pete orr. What’s the difference?

  146. Raul-you do raise a good point that Cox and JS know more than anyone could possibly know, given their positions. But to defer to them on everything is to suggest they are infallible. Everyone, even great leaders, can have their blind spots, or can have skills that do not fit the current situation.

    I think that is the case here. their blind spots are just a bit painful, here and now.

  147. LOL, I for one am glad I still don’t have faith in a manager that continues to use pitchers that have proven they are not worthy of pitching in the major leagues.

  148. why is bobby still letting him pitch? one of those good managerial decisions raoul was talking about.

  149. For what it’s worth, I like Cox and JS. They’ve had a great track record. But that doesn’t erase the fact that they’ve both dropped the ball this year.
    I’m sorry that I can have an objective opinion and not look at things through braves-colored glasses like you, raoul. Apparently that makes a bad braves fan and a low brow pundit.
    But that’s fine. I’ll keep being the reality around here.

  150. well, Chris got his ERA to 9.00, if he can get out of this inning without giving up any more runs.

    Shoot, Kolb’s ERA last year was 5.93; maybe we gave up on him too early.

  151. FREE REITSMA!

    He just pitching bad because he hasn’t gotten enough chances. He’ll be our closer again by the all-star break.

    (sarcasm)

  152. lol yeah start hitting people! I like that better than giving up three run homers.

  153. well, you know what they say about opinions raoul, there like butts, and some stink. reitsma will be dfa’d after the game. and yes, there are a ton of blind spots out there right now. i guess one of those managerial decisions would be to watch a guy completely melt down, almost to tears, ruin his career, make him a head case, all because he is a good guy that has “great stuff”.

  154. It’s a good thing startup and chuck james are sitting in the minors right now. Maybe those 2 and betemit did something to make cox mad.

  155. “For what it’s worth, I like Cox and JS. They’ve had a great track record.”

    This is the understatment of the year.

    You guys jerk-off Cox and JS when things are good and rag on them when things are bad.

    This proves why some of you like the Braves, winning. Be a fan of the Braves and not a particular arrangement of numbers…

  156. Who would be a better manager..a guy that’s won 14 straight titles with his team..or us sitting here??

    Yeah Raoul…ofcourse Bobby..but you can’t tell me that you totally agree with everything that he’s doing. There comes a time..to shake things up..light a fire…do something

    We all want the Braves to do well…and that’s why all this is so frustrating

  157. Raoul’s been quiet since Reeksma came in. hmmmm.

    Honestly though, how many chances can you give to a “good guy” It’s about winning not giving games away because you like a guys personality.

  158. I started liking the Braves when I was 4 years old. Don’t educate me on being a ‘real’ braves fan. And as fans who watch every game and pay money to see them play, as I do 4-5 times a year, I have a RIGHT to criticize the men responsible for us being 10 games out of first place. If they were making good decisions and the players were just not executing, that’s one thing. But they’re doing NOTHING but running this organization in the ground.

  159. Think I am going to go watch the World Cup – and I dislike soccer. Good grief, thtaat was one of the worst pitching performances I have ever seen. Even Joe and Pete were dogging on Shitsma. I don’t care if he has a heart of gold, he really can’t be put in another game this year without trying to figure it out at Richmond, or being given his outright release first. Just terrible.

  160. Raoul, I am an intruder ( a Mets fan) that just reads the blog from time to time, but what are you?…..a shill for the Braves front office? You, my friend are an out and out idiot! The point of a baseball game is to win and the point of winning games is to get to the WS and the point of the WS is to win it. That’s why they play these games.
    If you want entertainment…..go the movies. It’s cheaper and it won’t break your heart. You are the ultimate “company guy” touting the company line. These people on this blog are emotional, passionate, informed and devoted fans who care. You have no emotions. You’re a robot. You are the ultimate loser.
    And no, the Yankees can’t say they’ve won 14 AL in a row, but they can say they’ve won 4 World Series ( and I hate the Yankees.) Who’s fans do you think are happier and got more joy?
    Sorry, I couldn’t read your BS anymore and not coment. I apologize to all of you…..but not you Raoul!

  161. Be careful, CJ. Some people in here don’t like criticism of the braves. They cannot fail, remember.

  162. raoul, you are rude. why do you act like you know anyone on here? i have been a braves fan ever since i was a toddler. from benedict to betemit, so dont pull the “fair weather fan” shit ’round here. i dont think we would be on this site, typing words to you about the braves if we were fair weathered. in 10 years, if the braves win 20 games on a rebuilding year, i will still be armchair mananging saying there should be a change.

  163. Well said Ryan. I’ve been a fan since 1990, when I moved to Kennesaw. I’ve been a fan for 16 years and just because I am not happy doesn’t mean I am not a true fan. I wouldn’t be here right now if I stuck around only for the times we won.

  164. I agree ryan..

    I’ve been watching the Braves before I could even hold a pen decently..and I’ve been with them through the good and the bad..and I always will be.
    Certain friends and family of mine..that follow either the Red Sox or Yanks always criticize the Braves and I always stick up for them no matter what..

    That’s why when mr. Duke calls me a hypocrite…that only likes a winning team..it doesn’t sit well with me.
    We criticizr..because we are passionate..and we care..and we want the tradition of winning to continue. Who doesnt want that Raoul???

    Tell me.. Tell me any Royal fan wouldnt want to trade with us. Because yeah..the final score DOES matter. Why else do you pay these guys millions of dollars??.. To be “good” citizens…??
    NO..it’s to give you a win. Cuz that is sports. And if that makes me a hypocrite…then i don’t know what you’re smoking

  165. They probably just want to get out of Houston; as few as pitches as possible… then again, the Braves have innings like that when they’re winning. Regardless of your feelings on Bill James (Raoul), that’s just stupid hitting.

    I just signed on to check the score, but I’m glad I missed this one.

  166. Sorry Brad, don’t think that will happen. ( Reitsma to the Mets!) And once again I apologize to all of you, but I couldn’t stand reading this guy’s BS. It was driving me crazy. Anyone who says not winning is okay is not a fan in my book! And trust me, I know lots about losing and heartbreak…… !

  167. I think the main point of contention is the notion I presented that I feel like our whole organization loves proving outsiders wrong by winning the east every year. Then we do and they hang another banner and all is well, forgetting that there is more to it than that.
    And if you look at the last 5 or so teams that have won the WS, we look nothing like them. We’re built to beat the mets and phillies and win the east, and nothing more.

  168. God damn astro announcers keep talking about how bad the braves are and what they should do to improve and speculate on whether or not we are going to make any big moves. This is so damn frustrating.

  169. didn’t Smoltz say earlier this year that “were not coming back from 10 down” – We’ll I guess this season is over. Martinez is on the mound tonight for the Mets

  170. Brad, it’s one thing for Braves fans to do it but when another teams fans do it publicly on t.v. it is not ok.

  171. Y’know I look at this from a much more pragmatic standpoint. While the Braves have had a truly excellent front office and management team throughout their run (and I have the highest respect for Bobby Cox, Leo, and JS) they also have gotten considerably lucky in their moves.

    Every move JS made, every reclamation project they picked up, every trade has pretty much turned to gold. Part of this is their fabulous scouting department, the brilliance of Leo Mazzone, and up until this year, Bobby’s managagement.

    But I think finally karma has finally caught up with the Braves. I mean, no matter how good your scouting department is, there are going to be some moves/prospects that just don’t pan out. And I think that the Kolb trade, along with Leo’s departure and the Braves playing a bit over their heads last year has just finally caught up with the team.

    It’s not really surprising to me that it happened, it’s just surprising how quickly everything fell apart. And I just have to wonder if it would have happened if Leo was still here.

  172. The good news is the new season of “Entourage” starts back up tonight on HBO. Great show.

  173. Remember those Old Milwaukee commercials: “It doesn’t get any better than this.” This is the exact opposite of that. Hitting rock bottom with a day off to think about it. Ouch.

  174. Maybe the day to think about it will bring some changes. Surely they realize now that things may not be working.

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