ESPN.com – MLB – Box Score – Braves at Astros
Hey, a win! Somewhat tempered by the AAA appearance of the Astros’ lineup, which lacked Biggio, Berkman, and Ensberg, but I’ll take anything at this point.
Wilson Betemit played second base today and led off; all he did was go 3-4 with a double, score two runs, and make a fantastic over-the-shoulder catch on a flare. So, it’s back to the bench for you, Wilson! Lucky he’s out of options or they’d probably demote him.
After Betemit’s double to lead off the game, Renteria sacrificed him to third (sheesh) and Chipper doubled him home. In the third, Hudson led off with a single, Wilson doubled, and Renteria homered to make it 4-0. Then the Braves apparently decided to take the rest of the game off and make Taylor Buchholz look like Roger Clemens, striking out eight times while eighteen of the last nineteen batters made outs; the only exception was a single by Betemit, who was promptly erased on a double play.
Hudson allowed only one hit before the eighth; a single followed by a triple, then a sac fly allowed the Astros to cut it to two. Ray came on for the save; with two out he allowed a single, which brought to the plate…. OH NO, NOT BRAD AUSMUS REPRESENTING THE TYING RUN!!!!!!!!! Fortunately, after getting ahead 3-0, Ausmus grounded out. Sure, now he makes an out.
Hudson struck out five but walked four, and needed 112 pitches to go eight. He wasn’t about to get relieved until late, though. Francoeur struck out three more times but he’s still in the lineup every day without fail. But not without failure.
In most organizations, Francouer would be demoted based on this crap. Not “Home Town Kid”.
Betemit at 1B was thrown out for discussion on the Game Thread board. I like it…
Is Frenchy living in a vacuum? Is he really trying to improve with the same OLD approach? It’s painful to watch.
Hey Guys 1st day back from the honeymoon and we finally won a game. Cant say I missed watching anything the past week. Have we traded Reitsma, Thomson, or Giles yet! If not maybe we should. Anyways glad to be back and glad we finally won. I did watch the Boston – Yankees game in Spanish the other day and that sucked, but anyways hopefully this will help us get back on track.
Any word on whether or not Bobby will keep Betemit in the line-up, he’ll probally let Giles play again tomorrow.
Great recap… the last two sentences are right on: who here can defend playing Francoeur every day at this point? How did Franklin define insanity? Oh yeah, doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
I posted this in the game thread already..but i’ll put it here again 2 see what u guys think. Betemit at first..and batting lead-off.
(it gets rid of LaRoche..and Giles in that lead-off spot)
Wilson
Giles
Chipper
Andruw
McCann
Renteria
Frenchy (eventhough he needs a good ass kicking from T.P)
Diaz
Pitcher spot
Davey – I like the thought, but I would swap Renteria and Giles in your line-up. I would also swap Diaz and Frenchy.
I would also have to swap Renteria and Giles.
I would probably keep Renteria in the 2-hole where he and Betemit can tableset. Giles has been successful in run producing spots in the order in past years such as the 3-hole. I guess I would swap him and Renteria and agree with the rest of your lineup.
I would love to see Betemit at first. I have begging and begging for this since the Winter.
Even better solution?
Do the Pirates deal, keep Betemit at 2nd and have Craig Wilson at first so both Giles and LaRoche can sit their asses down for now.
As for Francouer, we need to make Matt Diaz the regular left fielder and platoon Francouer and Langerhans at this point. It’s the only viable option.
I also agree with Mac (we chatted today via phone) that we need to kick Brian Jordan off this team for once and for all and make him a coach in the minors or something–then call up Jurries and have a more viable platoon with Adam (assuming we don’t get C. Wilson).
Reitsma needs to be removed from the city of Atlanta and if we do the Pirates deal, we can get Mike Gonzalez. Also a needed move.
Quote from Bobby on http://www.atlantabraves.com:
“I’m going to start playing Betemit as much as I can at second, third and short,” Cox said before Saturday afternoon’s game at Minute Maid Park.
Yet Brian Jordan continues to get starts at first base. Stop the insanity.
Isnt Jurries injured right now? I know Thorman has played in the outfield 6 of the last 8 days and has put up very good offensive numbers!
What is this Pirates deal everyone is speaking of? Do we get Jason Bay? If not… it sucks.
Yeah..you guys are right. Giles and Renteria should be swithced in such a scenario.
Wilson and Edgar setting things up is much better then Wilson-Giles.
Well..Craig Wilson wants out..and they have a good young closer in Mike Gonzalez. If we could get them it’d be great.
And if in the process we could get rid of Sosa/Thomson/LaRoche and or Reitsma…well,even better.
Frenchy should platoon on the road and start at home and Betemit should platoon with Laroche.
I said it before and I’ll say it again… Edgar has experience at first base; put Wilson at short and Edgar at first and you probably get a defensive upgrade at both positions. The line becomes:
Wilson
Edgar
Chipper
Andruw
McAnn
Giles
Diaz/Langerhans
Frenchy
Pitcher
When has Edgar had experience at first base?
Renteria has played one game his entire career at first base back in 2001 for St. Louis. How is that experience?
I see from Baseball Reference that Renteria did play 1B for one game in 2001. Putting him there might make more sense then what they are doing now but I am sure that Bobby and Co. are not considering it. Just as they are not considering Betemit at 1B or Thorman at 1B which would all be upgrades.
If Edgar moves, it should be to left field, where he’ll do the least harm. It’s a Klesko situation again — while defense is less important at first than in left, a really bad first baseman will hurt you more than a really bad left fielder.
I really think LaRoche has to get the lion’s share of the time at first. While he’s not a good defensive first baseman, he’s (by far) the best we have, and he’s been hitting of late. I’d rather have a Thorman/Jurries platoon, but that’s not going to happen, and putting someone with no experience at the position (or almost no experience) would be bad.
True LaRoche is our best defensive first basemen. The problem is he strikes out a ton, grounds into crippling double plays, and makes dumb errors at first. My real beef is that Cox will let Jordan play out of position over there while he won’t try a natural infielder over there who has a much better bat than Jordan. That doesn’t make a lick of sense to me.
Move Betemit at 1B.
Keep Death Ray at closer.
Call up Stockman and let him be the 8th inning set-up guy.
Call up James to replace Sosa in the rotation. Sosa goes to bullpen (betcha anything he’d be great in the bullpen)
DL and/or DFA Reitsma.
I don’t hate Adam.. I’m not that crazy about him,but he’s not that bad. The thing is…he should NOT be hitting 5th..not even 6th. He should be a 7th or 8th place hitter.
He just strikes out waayy too much…doesn’t run well..kills you with double plays..and his attitude/intensity only works against him.
If Bobby stays with him at first…atleast drop him in the order down to 7th.
But I just can’t picture Renteria in the outfield…I want to..but it’s just not going.
I would like to believe that Sosa would pitche well in the bulllpen. However, last year he was bad in the bullpen before he moved to the rotation. His walks and home run tendancies work against him in short work.
People, Wilson Betemit is not going to play first at all this year. It may be a good thing, it may not. But it’s not going to happen.
A realistic solution would be Sosa to the bullpen, Yates to the minors and James in the starting rotation.
P.S.: Swapping Giles and Renteria in the batting line-up and playing Betemit more whereever would be nice too.
I love the fact that Bobby put McCann right back to the fifth spot in the batting order. That’s great. Thank goodness it doesn’t take another three weeks to move Adam out of that fifth spot. Ok, then it’s time to fix the sixth to eighth spot of the batting order with Adam, Frenchy, and Langy all batting below .250. If Bobby is going to give more at-bats to Betemit, the at-bats should come from those three guys rather than taking at-bats away from Chipper, Edgar, and Marcus.
Why not take at-bats away from Marcus? He has the worst OPS of any regular on the team! He’s sucking in outs like a dying fish. His defense isn’t that good. But on a pretty dark note, I am not one of those people that say, “This guy sucks now, so he must have been juicing,” but his sudden lack of offense at a time where he should be in his prime is a little bit shady if you ask me. I may get destroyed for this, but even if he wasn’t juicing, he doesn’t need to be in the lineup, and especially in the lead-off position.
I sure did like that BC did something /anything different. But why so late, we lost 9 of 11 before he made a move! But Regardless of what line-up we run out there, something must be done about the K’s were not facing a Ben Sheets every night! #1 frenchy has to sit # 2 give Diaz a week of starts, can’t be worse then either frenchy /langerhans have done. # 3 LaRoche needs to bat eighth, he has catchers speed and is a liability anywhere else # 4 Wilson some how has to be in there everyday, how? Not sure but if BC after todays game doesn’t find a way he deserves to be fired! I don’t think our season is lost yet, but the time to get it turned around is at hand GO BRAVES
^^^^^^There are some other Braves that I suspect as well.^^^^^
I think that Marcus has thoguht too much about being a leadoff hitter and that has affected his production. Just that, nothing more.
Like I said, I’m not one of those “Every power hitter who’s having an off-year is on ‘roids” guys but Giles’ stats just scream withdrawal from performance-enhancing substances.
Marcus’ thought process doesn’t turn you from a great hitter into an atrocious “hitter.” I’m sorry but over-thinking doesn’t make you suck the way he’s sucked.
*shrugs* Guess we’ll have to get someone else.
I would like to see Giles traded along with a starting pitcher for some kind of offensive or bullpen help. I think this is my first trade suggestion all year.
Rob, I can understand everybody’s frustration on Marcus, and he certainly has not been playing well this season. However, this guy has PROVEN to be one of the most consistent hitter in the lineup for the past THREE SEASONS if he is put back to where he belongs and feels most comfortable, which is not leading off.
If you look at the track records of all the guys who struggle, wouldn’t you have more confidence in him to recover more than Adam or Frenchy or Langy or BJ? If you watch Marcus playing everyday, it is obviously his head which is messed up, not his body. Remeber Chipper in 2004 when his stats suddenly dropped off? You could have easily drawn the same conclusion on Chipper back then as you are drawing now on Marcus.
Also, if Marcus is using performance-enhancing substances, he would be hitting more homerun instead of being a doubles machine.
I think it’s time that Giles started getting some hate–not that he hasn’t, but LaRoche, Reitsma, and Frenchy seem to be getting a lot more. And I hate to admit it, because I’ve always really liked him. But, seeing Betemit in there today was pretty un-Bobby-like. I wouldn’t be surprised if Giles lost his job over the course of the next few weeks if he doesn’t seriously turn it around. I also expect Frenchy to sit out tomorrow’s game. That makes it look like Bobby’s doing a “rest everybody” rotation. In fact, a Diaz-Jordan outfield might be replacing Francoeurhans…or is it Langercoeur. Jordesi worked a lot better.
But I guess most of the blame needs to go to the pitching. It’s been pretty bad.
oh yeah, Furcal’s last season first half is a good reference as well. Maybe Mac should put “Trade Giles!” as part of the site-title like what is did last season with Raffy.
I agree JC. The pitching is really the main problem. Regarding Marcus, it’s not his fault that Bobby and JS puts him in a uncomfortable position to accomodate Edgar. Chipper’s number drops off as well when he bats in the cleanup spot. Knowing Marcus, his personality does not fit the leadoff role, the kid is too anxious, excited, and hyped up…sort of an anti-Adam.
I was in Publix earlier, and the checkout clerk says that Lance Cormier’s wife bought 46 pounds of ground chuck and also told her that this trade is in the works:
Padres get:
Marcus Giles
Lance Cormier
Low-level pitching prospect
Braves get:
Scott Linebrink
Geoff Blum
But I think that the Padres would want an additional prospect.
KC, you’re gonna tell me that because he’s the first person batting in the lineup instead of the second, it’s an excuse for him to hit 167 points below the average OPS of the last three seasons? That sounds like a pretty weak-minded baseball player to me. Also, don’t compare this to Chipper’s 2004 season. He was splitting time between two positions, one he had no desire to be in, he was injured, and he was 3 years older than Marcus is now. Marcus is just sucking; quit defending it. The worst thing about it is we have a clear, definitive upgrade in Wilson Betemit. It’s not like we’re trying to convert someone to a different position with no previous experience or call up someone with no major league experience to save the day, like some people want to do. It’s simple. Trade Giles and plug in the natural candidate in his place, the one who deserves to be there.
JC is right about two things: Giles deserves some blame, but the pitching is still the issue. We’re fourth in the National League in runs scored, but we’re 14th out of 16 in ERA in the NL. The issue is pitching, and the offense isn’t compensating enough.
Rob, I don’t think it’s the pitching so much as it is the defense — or rather, we have a pitching staff that won’t function without a great infield defense. It seems like there have been at least half a dozen games where the Braves have lost because Renteria can’t get to a ball or the other team gets an infield single and then the floodgates open.
Also, KC, who cares what kind of power Giles has? Are you going to say steroids only make you hit home runs and not doubles? So steroids change your swing mechanics and force you to hit more fly balls that become home runs than screaming line drives that go off the wall for a double or triple? Or any man that is on steroids hits those screaming line drives over the fence instead of hitting the warning track for a double? That makes sense.
Well, you could be right Mac, and I couldn’t prove it either way conclusively, but we’re fourth in the league in home runs allowed and fourth in OPS allowed. That doesn’t sound like it’s the bleeders getting through.
Piling on… I’m one of Marcus’ biggest fans, going back to when he was still in the minors, but he now has a lower on-base percentage than LaRoche — whom everyone wants to get rid of. He’s been essentially the same hitter as Langerhans — whom everyone wishes KJ was available to replace. He has a lower OPS than Kid Strikeout, the right fielder. Betemit’s been so much better than him this year it’s not even funny. It’s tragic. Maybe he’d be better in the 2 spot. Maybe not.
Rob, the kid put up three fine seasons and you are ready to kill him because of one bad half. That’s all right. Our conversation isn’t going to go anywhere. It’s ok to have different opinions.
The strikeouts (12th) OBP (11th) and SLG (12th) are marginally better than the AVG (14th), which suggests that — at the least — the defense is pretty poor. Also, the whole pitch-low-and-get-ground-balls philosophy doesn’t work if the shortstop is suffering from arthritis or whatever it is.
giles does not need to be out of the lineup. traded maybe, but not out of the lineup. look at furcal’s production last year in the first half. almost everyone on this board was in the “trade furcal” boat. giles needs to move out of the 1 position. if i was a betting man i would bet he doesnt want to be there in the 1st place. keeping giles, betemit, chip, and renty in the game at the same time is what has to happen. now, bobby just has to find a way to make it happen. i dont know who said it up top, but someone made the point that placing betemit (or chipper) at 1st would be a defensive downgrade from laroche, but an instant upgrade from jordan. if that’s the case, then i say get it done. if chipper went there, then betemit would be at 3rd, which would upgrade the left side, so it kind of balances out.
my “wanna be” lineup
betemit
renteria
chipper
andruw
mccann
diaz
giles
frenchy
pitcher
I REALLY like that
Oh, by the way, i know there is a TON of francoeur hatin’ going on, but the guy has 42 rbi’s through 63 games, thus projecting him at +100 for the year. and he is pretty much on the same strikeout pace he was on last year. also, his projection in hr’s is 30. not too shabby. the rest of his stats….well..suck, but i’m mr. brightside.
Maybe I missed some of the posts, but I’m surprised that no one talked about why Giles didn’t play. Cox was punishing him for his non-challant play last night in the 5th. That is a given. I bet he will start tomorrow’s game though.
in the last 10 games, we dont have a “regular” starter that has hit over .300
giles-.231
renty-.278
chip-.263
druw-.237
langerhans-.172
frenchy-.205
ladouche-.290
i think i hear a diaz AND betemit start coming soon.
in the last 10 games, we dont have a “regular” starter that has hit over .300
giles-.231 renty-.278
chip-.263 druw-.237
langerhans-.172 frenchy-.205
ladouche-.290
i think i hear a diaz AND betemit start coming soon.
triple post! YES!
I’m still a little skeptical, but Cox is quoted as saying Giles made the right play in the fifth and that had nothing to do with him being benched. It’s still a little strange that Cox would choose to play Betemit for the 1st time at 2nd a few innings later and then start him the next game.
It seems Schuerholz may be making a bullpen trade soon:
http://www.ajc.com/braves/content/sports/braves/stories/0610bullpen.html
Oh, and I just love the last line:
“Yet for all that, the central figure will not submit. Reitsma asks for more time.
“When everything is said and done, the only one not pitching well in the bullpen is myself,” he said. “Everyone else is doing all right. I still have confidence in them. It’s just taking us a little longer for us to get to where we want to be.”
It is mid-June. Just a little mediocrity would be nice.”
giles does not need to be out of the lineup. traded maybe, but not out of the lineup.
Sorry, ryan, but this makes no sense. If you trade him, he’s out of the lineup. Not sure what this means.
I don’t want to throw in the towel on Marcus, simply because I find it too ludicrous to believe that at age 28, in the middle of his prime, after years and years of demonstrating himself as an offensive force, he has totally forgotten how to hit. Forget power/steroids/whatever. They don’t help you make contact, and a lot of the time, he doesn’t even make contact, or his OBP wouldn’t be so low. That has nothing to do with PEDs. It’s something else. Maybe he has fallen off a cliff, in which case I would refer everyone to guys like Mike Lowell and, last year, our very own Rafael Furcal (Stu and I already had a big argument about this, if I remember correctly), who appeared to have done the same and rebounded. I am not saying Marcus is similar to these people in a baseball sense, only that players do rebound and that it’s not so far out of the realm of possibility that he might, too. He’s the best 2B we’ve had in a very long time. Remember Lockhart? Quilvio Veras? It’s only June. Furcal sucked it up until the ASB at least. At the deadline, though, if we fall way out of it (and I’m not sure we couldn’t), I would look at trading him, the same way I’d look at trading everybody else. I want LaRoche gone for bullpen help and Betemit at 1B, but that either makes too much sense or not enough.
Steroids does affect your ability to make contact. More strength means a quicker bat means you can wait on a pitch longer means you can recognize what is being thrown and avoid swinging at bad pitches. More strength also should let you more accurately swing the bat where you want to (imagine whether it would be easier to hit a ball squarely on a tee with a whiffle ball bat or a heavy lead pipe).
Going off steroids also has a debilitating effect, if it isn’t done under medical supervision. You have to be weaned off of the stuff, like heroin. Consider Giambi’s struggles — looks like he went off the juice cold turkey, dropped serious weight and suddenly couldn’t hit a parked bus for a several month stretch and came down with lots of mysterious illnesses.
Good news is that if Giles is being affected by going off of the ‘roids, his performance will probably come back some once his body adjusts, though he probably still won’t be the same player. If he can get his hands on some human growth hormone, then maybe he can get fully back in business. Maybe Giambi can help him out.
Also, I’d bet money that Mike Lowell also was on steroids, and that’s why he crashed last year. He’s rebounding now either because (i) he’s back on the stuff or something else (human growth hormone?) or (ii) he’s gone through his roids crash and he’s feeling better physically. I’m guessing he’s on something else.
I just realized that Frenchy rhymes with Benchy.
Trees bend at the waist
Mighty oak torn by poor ash
The Braves swing again
I think Frenchy is getting a little too much credit for “all the strikeouts”. Here are strikeouts as a percentage of at bats:
Langerhans – 29.8%
Chipper – 20.3%
LaRoche – 27.2%
Andruw – 21.7%
Marcus – 18.9%
Frenchy – 19.1%
Maybe Frenchy gets so much blame because many of his strikeouts look so spectacularly bad (like yesterday’s swing at the ball that bounced in front of the plate). I’m not sure how everyone else feels but I think I’m more concerned about the lead off batter striking out 18.9% of the time than I am the 6th batter striking out 19.1% of the time.
But frenchie’s strike-outs come without walks, meaning that he doesn’t have the strike-outs on the marginally good pitches that might be balls and might lead to walks. Run those numbers vs. walks, and see who excels.
Frenchie’s approach to the plate is world-class horrible, and it will only get worse, unless it gets fixed. Why would an MLB pitcher throw the ball in the strike zone when he has a foot in every direction against Frenchie.
I have said this before; Frenchie has too much natural ability to let this flaw blow it all away. The organization needs to gigure out a way to fix it. I do not know if it is sending him down; or doing something in the off-season; or what. Sending him out day after day just doesn’t seem to be the answer, though.
I would hire him a special hitting coach with great strike-zone judgement in his MLB past, and send them both to Richmond, to work.
and by the way, of the 12 NL right-fielders with enough AB’s to qualify, Frenchie is now last in OBP-he is 12th. Giles isn’t last at his position; LaRoche isn’t, either.
It is Frenchie who is dragging this offense down.
Yikes. Hope the Braves can deal with a fan mutiny if Frenchy is sent down.
Seems to me if Frenchy is not walking and he’s striking out at a lower percentage than some then that means a lot of the time he is putting the ball in play. I’m not sure which is better over the long haul… lots of strike outs with lots of walks or lots of strike outs with lots of balls in play. If you have the speed of LaRoche then I guess walks might be better, but if you have Frenchy’s speed then maybe balls in play is better. I agree that Frenchy is seems to be an “easier striekout” since he does swing at everything and then some but I would think that would equal a higher percentage of strike outs but clearly it is not. Maybe what this really is is an indicator of just how much potential Frenchy has. And if last night’s game is any indicator then I still say having a lead off hitter who doesn’t stirke out much is way more important than the 6th spot having the same percentage of strike outs.
Unless, this is a trick question, lots of K’s with walks is much better than lots of K’s with balls in play, because the balls in play are 4-3. Frenchie is hitting .247 or something.
I do agree that it shows his potential, which is enormous. It is a test of this organization to work to unlock it, but trotting him out every day so he can wiff on a slider a foot in front of the plate is not going to unlock it.
This to me is not different than apitcher with a 98 mph fastball and no second pitch. We can ooh and aah on the fastball, but MLB guys will eventually time it, and unless you come up with a second pitch, you will not be successful, so organizations teach the pitcher a second pitch.
jenny, he doesnt need to be out of the lineup because he is a better option than laroche being out of the lineup, UNLESS we can trade him for something better. so in my little brain it makes sense. once again guys, if jeff hits .260 with 30 hrs and 100 rbi’s, i will be satisfied with his 2nd year production no matter his ops . jeff hustles and will make himself better. he’s young and he will make less mistakes offensively and defensively with age. laroche is lazy and will only get worse. if you are going to bench people, bench all normal starters with the last name that begins with L.
and why is noone jumping on langerhans? is it because he doesnt have as much potential as frenchy? langerhans has looked just as bad as jeff at the plate of late.
Yes, Langy has just struck out as much, but this is the alternative if you kick them both to Richmond:
Diaz – Jones – Jordan.
Creepy, isn’t it? So it’s Frenchy that gets the ire and not Langy.
“ladouche-.290”
What sense does it make to (according to your posted numbers) call the Braves’ best hitter over the past ten games a name?
Frenchy is one of my favorite players in all of baseball and I want to see him in a Braves uniform for the rest of his career…
That said..I think it frustrates us all here how undisciplined he can be at the plate..because this kid has all the potential in the world. He is not walking, he;s striking out like crazy..but he’s still on pace for 30+ homers and 100+ rbi’s. We get frustrated because..if he had ANY plate discipline at all..and had better pitch selection, this kid could and should win M.V.P awards.
Langerhans is stinking up the joint even more, but he’s not an All World talent like Jeffrey is. I think that’s why we ain’t that harsh on Ryan.
Man..I do miss K.J…
Agony at night
Hideous painful daylight
Sosa–gopher–GONE!
You guys are funny. Talk about eating your own. I remember early in the season when I was told by some of you how mets fans are so bad because they talk shit about their own players. and look what I see before my eyes……Braves fans crucifying their team. Now that is something to think about huh?
Frenchy will be fine. Leave the guy alone.I dont know if he willl ever be an all star like some of you were projecting earlier in the season, but he will be a solid player for years to come. He is young and still learning, and has some up side.
Cheers
Danny Kolb
i think the rule is: “i can talk smack about my mom, but you cant talk smack about my mom.” it applies in sports as well.
ny, nobody wants you here. why do you go somewhere where noone likes you? this is not “cheers”.
cheers
ryan c
dan, because i dont like him. fair enough?
I couldn’t care less if you like me. If I did don’t you think I would have left a long time ago? This is just for all you talking trash during spring training & the first month of the season. “The mets suck “, “the braves will be in first as they always have because the mets are not not even competition”, “The phillys are going to get the wild card and the mets will be in 3rd at seasons end”, ” I guarantee the braves will be in first after the first month of base ball. The mets will come back down to earth and lose “. …….Remember any of that do ya? well it’s time to own up to what was said.
You all had such a “we are the best and no one can beat us attitude. Well, were is it now? And look, The mets are the best team in the NL. ohhhh who called that one! And who called the braves not even making the wild card? and didn’t I say something about the braves being 10 games back come all star break….You know i did, no your not 10 games back yet but its only a matter of time. I told you this braves team was not the same as the past and you all told me I had no clue what I was talking about. Well, as it seems, I know a lot more then any of you.
cheers
Mr Met