Red Sox 4, Braves 0

ESPN – Red Sox vs. Braves Box Score, June 19 2007 – MLB

Yech. Tim Hudson looked strong for 3 2/3, then gave up a homer to Ortiz and after that looked like Kyle Davies. It wouldn’t have mattered if he’d righted the ship, because the Braves had no offense.

Hudson couldn’t get out of the sixth; it was 3-0 with one out and a runner on third in the inning when Bobby pulled the plug at 93 pitches. The runner scored on a sac fly, but the bullpen was pretty sharp, Villarreal, Paronto, and McBride allowing one hit among them.

But the Braves didn’t seriously threaten. The first three spots in the order combined for five hits and two walks, but the rest of the team had a total of one walk, by Chipper. Andruw (.202) looked hopeless again, but this time he had company. You aren’t going to win many games when the last six spots in the order are a combined 0-21.

155 thoughts on “Red Sox 4, Braves 0”

  1. Anything in the rulebook that allows a team to bat only five? I’m thinking we might have a fighting chance if we didn’t have to bat Druw, Frenchy, Thor, or the pitcher.

  2. Well “The Blister” looked like an ace tonight, while Tim Hudson pretty much looked like he always has as a Brave except for this past April. He was very sharp early but that Ortiz muscle shot seemed to get to him. Meanwhile Coco Crisp is doing his impression of Willie Mays this series.

    Oh well, let’s get the rubber game tomorrow behind Buddy Carlyle. Maybe Taveras will have a meltdown or something.

  3. Well, drove up 5 1/2 hours to Atlanta today for the game. Stayed for about 5 innings until a total downpour threatened to ruin the souvenirs I had. Also having no poncho, rain coat, or anything else that might keep me from getting soaked, we retired to the hotel.

    Count me among the many that were discouraged to see so many Sox fans flooding my team’s stadium and drowning out all of the Braves fans there. There were just as many Red Sox jerseys and t-shirts as there were Braves jerseys and t-shirts. Pretty discouraging…

    Nonetheless though, regardless of the rain, the loss, the stupid Red Sox fans, I still love seeing the Braves in Turner Field. The hotel was a couple miles from the stadium (Baymont Inn & Suites; anybody been there?), the tickets were pretty good, and I’ve gotten to spend almost a lot of time with my brother who I don’t see much of nowadays. Regardless of the misfortune, it’s been fun so far. Hopefully the ride back home will go ok.

    Go Braves.

  4. Sorry I ruined your night, Rob.
    Wonder how long I can keep this up before Bobby’s loyalty runs out…

  5. What’s up guys? Just thought I’d see if ‘Druw needed any hitting tips?


    .385 SLG

  6. A good while, dude. You’re in the clear. You even have a useful skill (defense) to contribute.

  7. Costly 100 Million Dollar Comment by Andruw Jones Taken from article in one month ago, (Totally indicative of his “Team Attitude”):

    “I swing the bat the way I want to swing, the way I swing it all the time,” Jones said.

    “I’m not a right-field-ball hitter. I’m a pull hitter. That’s the way it is.”

    This article is 1 month old and Andruw has done even more poorly as opposed to having a streak which will return him anywhere close to his career .264 BA.

    What’s most unfortunate is we all want him to be successful, not just as a ballplayer, but as a person who has been “family” since he left home as a teenager.However, IMO, whatever maturation process he has gone through has somehow left him unable to be “coachable” and he has lost that empathy most of us would have extended. At this point,due to his stubborn arrogance, each time he bats and fails, we actually resent his being in the lineup instead of Harris, Escobar, Salty, or Diaz.

    Ramirez’ easy willingness to go to right field served as the best contrast, exemplifying team spirit, not ego. Chipper’s comments reflect, as the team leader, (a possibly not so new)impatience with Andruw’s failure to listen to Pendleton or anyone else that may be an opinion shared by other teammates and certainly they too resent his “I’ll do it my way” attitude. Just as Chipper can elevate others around him, Andruw can be, will be, and currently is, a cancer.

    As someone earlier posted, I have a fear that our season will end with his popping up with the bases loaded to end the game that eliminates us from any hope of winning whatever.

    I am not as facile with the latest exact stats as those who regularly contribute to Mac’s great resource (the only one I read and have read almost every day for the last two years because of the quality, knowledge and forthrightness of these same participants), but since this article on a month ago (which I felt was extremely critical of Andruw’s seemingly cavalier attitude), I believe he has batted below .190 and had 2 homeruns.

    I also agree with a former poster who said we need to forget the name on his jersey and his salary (and put in someone who will do like Ramirez and hit the ball wherever it is pitched.) That man is (IMO)Diaz in Left Field. (Harris in Center.)

    Forgive the length. I would never post this long an opinion in the middle of a game thread and only due to my insomnia did I tonight(this morning, so who’s going to read it?). Any fellow insomniacs are welcome to use it as a temporary “cure”! :)

  8. was a craptastic game. Andruw and Frenchy together again ugh.

    well the only good news on the braves front was that Braves rookie ball season started yday and Cody Johnson ( he of last year’s first round reach ) started off with a HR. sigh, such lil pleasures one is down to!

  9. Missed the game completely, but on my way into town I did get the hear the Twins abuse the Mets, who dropped the ball all over the field. Another small pleasure. Still 1.5 games.

    Never thought I’d say this, but: Let’s go, Buddy Carlyle!

  10. Andruw is so bad I have to think he is deliberately hitting poorly so the Braves can afford to resign him at year’s end.

  11. I didn’t check it, but Andruw apparently has the 2nd worst batting average among regulars in the majors. Seriously, if Thor and Andruw could hit their way out of a paper bag we’d have something here.

  12. Does anyone know of any CF we may have in the farm system to replace Andruw next year? He slumps every year so we should have someone down there as a contingency. It’s gotten to the point now that even IF he asks for a lot less $, I wouldn’t want him. I do hear the Yanks – a team where superstars go to die, calling for him.

    Here’s to a series clincher with the BoSox tonight!

    Go Dawgs

  13. If it was anyone other than Andruw, would Bobby keep running a guy batting .200 out there everyday?

  14. I can answer my own question: yes he would if his name was Keith Lockhart….

  15. Can’t Think-

    Yes, the seemingly 10 years (I know it was only about 4-5) of Keith Lockhart still tops out as the worst stint ever for the longest time by a Brave in our modern era.

    As much as we all complain about Woodward or Andruw or previously about a Reitsma, no era is etched in my mind as a more useless period of life, then the Keith Lockhart era.


    Your theory is so crazy, it’s crazy enough to make sense!

    Rob Cope-

    Sorry about your miserable weather/crazy Sox fans experience. It sounds as depressing as our offense is in the 6-9 holes.

  16. Did anyone see the movie ‘Flowers in the Attic’? The sadistic, evil grandmother slowly poisoned one of her grandchildren by sprinkling small amounts of arsenic on his cookies each day. I think that Braves mgmt is doing this to Andruw in an effort to keep his FA price down at the end of the year so that we can resign him (and he will miraculously return to form next year). Keep eating the cookies Andruw.

  17. Really can’t get too upset about this one. Hudson got beaten by his nemesis yet again, but save for one inning looked okay. The offense as a whole had a better approach than during the bad streak, and just ran into some good pitching and tough luck, but put together some good at bats (save for the two-headed monster of Andruw and Francoeur).

    I’m really starting to feel for Andruw. You know it’s driving him nuts, he wants to help the team, but right now, his entire approach is so out of whack that he probably couldn’t hit a rookie ball pitcher. He tried to hit the ball to right center a couple of times yesterday, but none of his outs are even hit hard. It doesn’t look like he’s ready to burst out of it, so there’s no question that he’ll dip below the Mendoza line soon (today?).

    Francoeur, on the other hand, just pisses me off. He made an effort to improve his approach at the plate early in the season, it paid off for him, he saw the results, he heard the praise from everyone…and then he decides to go right back to his hacktastic ways. And contrary to what Joe Simpson would lead you to believe, it’s not just been the past 15 games. He drew just five walks in 111 May at bats. His OPS is now exactly one point higher than his 2006 OPS. There’s a clear correlation between him going back to his 2006 “approach” and his numbers dropping off, and he just hacks right on. I’m starting to think that Jeff Francoeur just isn’t, um, the smartest guy of the bunch.

  18. ANDRUW: Its Curacaon for [Rob] Deer!

    Damn, thats my second Fosters joke this week, but it seemed apropriate after looking at Druw’s stat line.

  19. Didn’t Lasorda start fining Steve Sax something like $20 every time he hit the ball in the air?

    Cox has gotta start doing that to Francouer. Either he has to take the first pitch or he’s gotta take a strike before he can start swinging.

    Hudson wasn’t bad. He probably was pretty comparable to Beckett. He just didn’t have the luxury of facing the pitter-patter of Atlanta Braves bats.

  20. no way we can resign Andruw. NOt even at 10-12 million unless we drop Hudson, Renteria, and Wickman. At least two of the three have to leave for him to stay. Hudson and Smoltz’s salaries increase from a combined 14mil to 27mil next year. Just by dropping Andruw we are breaking even

  21. Sadly, that was probably Huddy’s best start against Boston in a long time. The Sox own him which doesn’t bode well should we find ourselves, miracally, back in the World Series.

    I woon’t hold my breath on getting back to the big dance…not when your 6-9 hitters are automatic outs and you only have 1 (Smoltzie) consistently reliable starter. Honestly, except for April when Huddy was unhittable, our 2nd most reliable starter is Buddy Carlyle.

    Kyle Davies = the Scott Thorman of the rotation

  22. Rob–Sorry about your bad luck. I suppose the best that can be said is that you had a bit of adventure–the type you remember for the rest of your life….

    PC Beachbum–enjoyed your thoughtful post….my problem with Andruw is that I think he is mentally lazy….

    Sho–Gregor Blanco–at Richmond. Apparently he has a great glove, and can steal some bases. However, he has about as much power as Orr and Woodward put together. The really intersting CF propsect is Jordan Schafer–who may be in the process of putting together a `breakout season’ (he started the season at Rome). By all accounts he plays a fine CF and has a canon for an arm. Outside chance that we might see him get a cup of coffee in September–but his time might come sooner than many of us thought…..

  23. I don’t think Andruw’s a clubhouse cancer–he’s just hitting horribly and killing the team offensively.

    Two fun facts: Michael Barrett, an ACTUAL clubhouse cancer, has just been traded to the Padres for a PTBNL. And the guy who gave up 7 runs in 3 and a third for the Mets was Jorge Sosa, who apparently remembered that he’s Jorge Sosa.

  24. Alex, Chuck James has been doing pretty well the past couple weeks, if you can look past the fact that he can’t pitch into the 7th. He’s pitching like a good #4 starter, and by the end of the year hopefully he’ll evolve into the #3 that we need him to be.

  25. Ok, let’s all back up for a second on Michael Barrett.

    if you were Carlos Zambrano’s teammate, you’d hit him too. I think people are confusing Barrett with another Chicago catcher, the hateable AJ Pierzynski.

    I have always heard Barrett’s a solid dude…Zambrano a crazy hot head. But Zambrano is far more important to any shot the Cubs have of a Playoffs berth so out goes Barrett.

    The Cubs are also increasing the amount of hateable players on their roster with the signing this year of the extremely hateable, Alfonso Soriano.

    Soriano is the sole reason that 2 giant brawls were started with the Padres and our boys.

  26. If James and McCann have huge second halves like last year…

    ahh crap, who am I kidding?

    They could just get a PTBNL for Barrett?
    Cubs FO : We kill our player’s trade values like no other team.

  27. The ebb and flow is pretty funny to watch. I got torched by many for saying Andruw seemed to lack a strong work ethic and underachieved.

    Then Druw got hot for about 6 days and the Andruw apologist filled each day’s log with mocking post aimed at showing us doubters how foolish we were.

    Now, that 6 day window is over and we are back to discussing why Andruw is (a) hitting terrible and (b) completely unable to make adjustments.

    Lets hear some more of that righteous indignation, last time it got Druw hitting for the better part of a week.

  28. I know his K/BB and WHIP and all that sucks, but would JC Romero be worth a chance for league min? I say why not give him a chance. McBride sure isn’t finding the zone very well and obviously Gonzo is out… or do we just have too much relief pitching as is?

  29. No Booby has to have a lefty, even if said lefty is a terrible pitcher. They would never go with an all right handed bullpen.

  30. AAR-

    When you say “Chuck James hasn’t been that bad”, our standards have really lowered overall.

  31. When you say “Chuck James hasn’t been that bad”, our standards have really lowered overall.

    100 ip at around 4 ERA. thats decent stuff

  32. Chuck James has been good for us, he’s just in the wrong place. He’s a avg. to below avg #3 starter, but he was put in this place when Hampton was DL’d for the year. He’s an above avg #4 and a great #5 pitcher.

    Honestly Ive been even more impressed with Carlyle. He’s faced some of the toughest teams in baseball and has done pretty well. Like Alex said he’s been our best other than Smoltz and the good Huddy. I’m interested to see what he does against this lineup tonight and to see if he’s making progress. We need to win tonight with the off day tomorrow and then facing Rogers, who we should beat, and Verlander

  33. Alex, I honestly don’t know whether or not Barrett’s a solid dude. I know he went to Pace in Atlanta, which means that he could be a) an asshole, or b) sort of okay. But Zambrano’s not the only guy who punched him. He got into some problems with Rich Hill too. By that point, Piniella announced that he was going to be benching Barrett a lot more often. Maybe he’s a stand-up guy, but the entire clubhouse seems to have distanced itself from him. Of course, the Cubs are totally dysfunctional, so that might not be his fault.

    It looks like I misspoke. the Cubs got TWO players: backup catcher Rob Bowen, a minor league PTBNL, and cash.

  34. Does anyone know what Smoltz will be paid next year? That’s not the first time I have heard csg say that he is getting a raise to $14M, but I am not sure that is exactly correct.

    What I read was that the new contract guarantees him $14M. With an option year, that figure probably includes a buyout for 2009.

  35. I doubt Andruw’s work ethic is any different than it was when he hit 51 home runs. Blaming his slump on lack of work ethic is unfair since we have NO IDEA about his work ethic. People read all sorts of things into comments by the coaches because of frustration with Andruw’s performance, but lots of players have bad years and this may be Andruw’s bad year. There is no need to make this a character issue.

    And I think people are being unfair to Thorman. He is basically at the same place that LaRoche was at this point in his career. And people complained about LaRoche that he was lackadaisical–well, you can’t make that statement about Thorman. His hustle on Monday night led to a run. He should get some props for that. Moreover, while he has struggled, he does show flashes and appears to hang in well against lefties. Clearly, they need more production from first base but the real problem, to me, is, obviously Andruw, but also Francoeur, who seems to have regressed back to last year. He is having more and more bad at bats and is not driving the ball at all. The Braves have a real black hole in the middle of the order, especially when McCann struggles too. It always drives me nuts when the ESPN guys gush over Franceour because he “looks” like such a good player. The fact is, he is an average player at this point.

    And, do you think the Braves will EVER have a dominant complete game start again by anyone? It seems like the Braves rotation is now Smoltz and pray for rain and pray for some more rain, and pray for a tropical storm.

  36. With the production we’ve had from LF since Langerhans left, I think we’ve got our PTBNL. It’s called addition by subtraction. I’d just consider Willie Harris to be the PTBNL.

    Let’s get the win today and take another series. Earlier in the year when we were playing as expected, we were just winning series. We have to take baby steps at this point.

  37. Supposedly the Braves were getting that disgruntled SP (Can’t remember his name), but I never heard what happened. I agree Harris has been a lot better than Langy, but there is still someone on the way to Atlanta…

  38. Smoltz is making 14 million next year. Apparently Schuerholz is making it up to him for the “discounts” over the years.

    Oh, my cousin went to Danville’s season opener yesterday, and told me that Cody Johnson (last year’s first round pick who most thought was a stretch) went two for four with a massive 3 run jack.

  39. Diamond, are you thinking of Brad Halsey? I know his name was bandied about, but I could never find out if it was from reliable sources or just wishful thinking.

    By the way, $14 million is not a premium for John Smoltz. If anything, it’s still below-market.

  40. I don’t know if this was talked about during one of the games, but does anyone else think the homerun dances in the Red Sox dugouts are ridiculous? It’s one thing to celebrate, but they have choreography for crying out loud.

  41. Wikipedia:

    “On April 26, 2007 Smoltz agreed to a contract extension with the Braves. The extension includes a $14 million salary for the 2008 season, a $12 million vesting option for 2009 dependent on Smoltz’s ability to pitch 200 innings in 2008, and a $12 or $13 million team option for 2010 dependent on Smoltz’s ability to pitch 200 innings in 2009.”

  42. Yeah, Halsey was the guy Atlanta was rumored to be getting. His injury status is listed as DTD. If he’s the PTBNL, it seems he’d be a Brave by now. Maybe the PTBNL is Dan Meyer. Wishful thinking…

  43. yep, its almost as bad as Jose Reyes and the whole Mets team having different dances with each other. Pretty annoying

  44. the Cubs need a catcher now. Salty for Rich Hill? Would you….or Pena for whatever makes you happy

  45. @39
    Marc – Francoeur is a below average ball player at this moment.
    Last 28 days .215 .248 .280 .528

    McCann sucks even worse now,

  46. There’s absolutely no arguing that Smoltz deserves it. I also don’t see how you could offer him less than Huddy.

  47. A rumor, sort-of. The Giants are supposedly going to pack it in and sell off veterans for young players — position players, to be exact, because they have no hitting prospects but lots of pitchers. Morris is the obvious target for the Braves, with maybe Randy Winn or Ryan Klesko.

    If it had happened, I’d have written a post.

  48. Maybe Atlanta can add Salty to that deal and get Matt Cain, too. Heck, throw in a pitcher to cover the rotation spot…Yeah, it’s a nice idea.

  49. It does..Vizquel is on his last legs. I think if you add a pitcher though you need to trade Davies and get someone back. If you keep yo-yoing him between the majors and minors, you’re going to get Marquis 2.0 and eventually get 20 cents on the dollar for him. Trade him now and maybe you can get something in return.

  50. 1. Is just Yunel Escobar really the best the Giants could do?

    2. Can the Braves afford Morris?

  51. The Texas Rangers are packing it in, too, according to the local papers. They have some bullpen arms that might be worth a look, and of course Teixeira at 1B. But, they are a poorly run team that fears a revolt from inside the clubhouse if they start “rebuilding,” so who knows what they will really do. I imagine they’ll probably talk a bit here and there and then do nothing. Or, they’ll do what they did last year and let the Brewer’s GM swindle them since he knows the Rangers organization pretty well.

  52. In terms of long term value, I think Jonathan Sanchez might be a better pitcher than Matt Morris

  53. We need a pitcher now, there will be others longterm, but the Braves need a real starting pitcher now.

  54. The cubs won’t trade Rich Hill. If you want a pitcher from the cubs for Salty it would prob. be Zambrano.

  55. There is no way they trade the future with Salty for a half year of a struggling Zambrano.

  56. No way the Braves trade Salty for a rent-a-player and there is no way they could resign Zambrano.

  57. We’re walking a real tightrope with our rotation as it stands. Given the solid season he’s having, Matt Morris would make the Braves immediately better.

    I like Escobar a lot, but there’s no room at the inn for him, unless Chipper goes down again (& then the movie becomes “The Wilson Betemit Story, Pt. 2.”) It’s a chance worth taking, IMO.

    JS, do it, do it, do it. Do it ’til you’re satisfied.

  58. But as soon as Chipper goes down we get weeks and weeks with the following box score line:

    Woodward 3B 4 0 0 0 0 2 3 .200
    a-P Orr PH-3B 1 0 0 0 0 0 2 .200

    Ugh… ugh.

  59. Yeah, but we have to take that chance. We can get a backup infielder of some quality in the trade, but we’re gonna have to trade either Escobar or Salty for a starting pitcher at some point, and I think we’d all much rather it be Escobar. There’s really no getting around it. Either we do this or we don’t make the playoffs.

  60. Th 1930 Phils, one of my all-time fave ABPA teams. And the best pitcher of that sorry lot? A guy named Phil Collins.

  61. Well then I guess we’ll just have to trade Salty. Won’t we?

    Seriously though, I’m sure we can throw somebody else in the deal to make it worth their while. That’s what minor leaguers are for.

    I get what you’re saying, but our job is to make it worth their while, regardless of what it takes. Again, no trade for starter = no playoffs.

  62. Nick, I don’t think Escobar will get a top notch pitcher. Would have to add someone else.

  63. Maybe Aybar will have dried out by then.

    At any event, Escobar isn’t likely to ever play regularly for the Braves, and his value is probably at its peak. There aren’t many MLB-ready rookie shortstops on the market.

  64. Yes, and that would keep us from being tempted to use him as our starting CF next year instead of signing a free agent. Excellent…he’s perfect.

  65. Escobar needs to be traded, and I don’t see the point in keeping Salty if he could be traded for some starting pitching. Even if he was converted to 1st base, is he THAT much better than Thorman? I don’t think so, and he’s just wasting space as a backup catcher.

  66. Just heard a little birdie telling me that Devine is in atlanta and was called up but not yet put on team. Not sure who is going down but it could be set up for a trade??? Maybe they will send down Escobar, i don’t know. If i hear more i will share.

    Sorry if already posted.

  67. Bethany, I think he is THAT much better than Thorman. But if we can get a young top of the rotation SP i say go for it.

  68. It really sucks that we can’t use Andruw in any of these trade talks. That would really give us more leverage than we have now. I would guess that we could probably get a team’s third starter and starting CF for Andruw, in most cases. And we wouldn’t have to be worried about the potential drop-off in the lineup, because whoever it is would automatically be hitting better than Andruw is. Blast that no-trade clause!

  69. @78 – I’m not sure why they would send down Escobar and carry 13 pitchers. However, I would be more than happy if that sent down Orr and carried 13 pitchers.

  70. We couldn’t get a third starter and Starting CF for Andruw, his trade value has gone so far down it’s not even funny.

    Look, we aren’t going to make the playoffs without Chipper in the lineup, McCann hitting, Frenchy hitting, AND Andruw playing somewhat like Andruw. All of those things have to happen to make the playoffs. We need Andruw to be similar to the AJ we were thinking he was going to be for a realistic shot at playoffs.

  71. David O’ Brien: “THIS JUST IN (or soon to be in): Devine has indeed been called up. Braves are going to make a move this afternoon, I believe a relatively minor trade, but not certain yet.

    Anyway, Devine’s going to be added to the 25-man roster, so educated guess is they’re trading a pitcher. I don’t know who, however. Should know in an hour or two, if not sooner.”

  72. KLB, me neither, perhaps they will release Paronto or something. Escobar will be sent down before Orr or Woodward as the Braves think long term and he needs to be playing everyday. Whether people like it or not.

  73. I’m guessing that would point to a trade if you’re right, Unknown. Because you would think that we would call Boyer back up if we were thinking about bringing up a reliever mid-to-long term. In this case, Devine would just be there to fill the spot for a few days.

    In fact, why the hell did we send Boyer down and not Paronto in the first place?

  74. Well thats funny…I didn’t even go over there, guess it was a good birdie that gave me that info, better hang on to him.

  75. This may have been speculated in the game thread last night, but I didn’t check it.

    CoCo Crisp’s catch last night probably puts him in CF for Atlanta next year. I’d be willing to wager it.

  76. We will see King, I’d say the chances that AJ is the CF is just as good as Coco.

  77. The Reds suck, god. I’m also a Pirate fan and they have sucked but it seems like the Reds are even worse the past half a decade.

  78. In other news, Jo-Jo Reyes has been promoted to Richmond. He made a spot start there last week, but they’re saying this time it’s a promotion.

  79. Yeah, whoever their dumbass GM was in the late 90s really screwed them over. Clearly having four starting outfielders and no pitching produced a perfect balance on that team. Only an idiot would want to trade one of the OFs for pitching…

  80. It seems to me that, in deciding whether to trade Salty, you have to look at a couple of things:

    (1) is Salty going to be a star

    (2) is the pitcher you get back going to be a long-term solution

    (3)is it worth potentially trading a star for a shot at the playoffs this year

    Typically, when the Braves have traded prospects, they have gotten the better end of the deal, which is a tribute to JS and Bobby’s ability to evaluate talent. Trading Escobar makes some sense, but I would think you would have to be absolutely blown over to trade Salty.

  81. last night on the rain delay show they had already mentioned devine coming up. i just assumed that boyer and one of the infielders were going to richmond or being released.

  82. Also, I have no rational basis for saying this, but I believe Devine will be lights-out for the remainder of the season. I’m excited about his call-up.

  83. “Devine has indeed been called up. Braves are going to make a move this afternoon, I believe a relatively minor trade, but not certain yet…..Anyway, Devine’s going to be added to the 25-man roster, so educated guess is they’re trading a pitcher.”

    I guess this is exciting. What are they going to do? Trade for Casey Fossum since the Devil Rays want a reliever (the Braves were rumored to be interested in trading for Fossum in spring training after Hampton went down but before they signed Mark Redman).

  84. Add me to the chorus that supports the Escobar trade. I wish we could trade Pablo Escobar, but the Giants would dumb enough to demand we package Turtle, Billy Walsh and Drama.

    (I hope some of you get the reference…)

    Anyway, in all seriousness, the Braves desperately need another starting pitcher to have any shot of competing with the Mets. Plus, it’s becoming more & more likely that the Mets and the White Sox are discussing a trade involing Lastings Milledge and Mark Buehrle. We have to counter that, before or after.

    Though let me say with all the young hitters we could offer, plus considering that Buerhle is a lefthander, why is JS not also talking with Kenny Williams? Morris would be a good pick up, but if we could head the Mets off, that’s a good scenario as well.

    My concern though of course in trading Escobar and/or Salty is if more DL time comes along for Chipper and McCann. I think considering how good Escobar and Salty are, we should have extra parts thrown in. I would love the Giants to toss in a Omar Vizquel so we could simply waive Woodward. God how I hate Woodward.

    As for Joey Devine, I am curious to see what the kind can do with a 2nd shot and a bit more maturity under his belt. I am hopeful.

  85. Yeah. When we had a choice of either demoting or releasing Fat Boy, demoting or releasing Orr/Woodward or demoting Boyer, we moronically chose Boyer.

  86. Wow, anyone remember back when the Red Sox absolutely would not trade Fossum? He was untouchable when they were working on the Schilling deal with AZ, at least that was the initial report. Obviously, things changed, but at one time he was very highly thought of by smart people.

  87. Yes, King Diamond, I remember that.

    That’s like the Reds refusing to part with Pokey Reese to acquire Ken Griffey Jr. (obviously they were able to get Griffey anyway, but they kept Pokey).

  88. However, in 23 IP last year against the Red Sox, Fossum was 2-0 with a 1.16 ERA. Maybe he’s just going to start tonight and then they’ll let him go. :-)

  89. “With injured starter Kenny Rogers ready to return to action, look for the Tigers to trade Mike Maroth to open a spot in the rotation.

    Maroth will be traded for bullpen help, effectively easing the loss sustained by injuries to young fireballer Joel Zumaya, who is out for the season, according to Detroit News baseball beat reporter Rob Parker.”

    Maroth likely will be gone by the end of the week, Parker said Monday during a broadcast interview with XM Radio’s Charlie Steiner.

  90. Doesn’t the fact that Devine’s waiting to be activated mean we’re trading a reliever for a minor leaguer? I guess they could be trading for a starter and planning to send Davies down, too. But the way it’s phrased—Devine’s being called up because a trade is happening—indicates to me that he’s just replacing a soon-to-be-departed reliever.

  91. Wouldn’t we basically trading for another James/Davies if we traded for Maroth? I really don’t see the point. Not saying they aren’t. Am saying it would be kind of stupid. Just bite the bullet and trade for an actual No. 3 starter, not another No. 4.

  92. A couple points:

    (1) Davies is no #4. He’s about a #6 or so.

    (2) If all you’re giving up is a reliever (assuming it’s not Soriano or Wickman), I’d say getting someone like Maroth is about the best you could hope for.

  93. Not to feign excitement over a possible Maroth acquisition, but those are AL stats. A move to the NL would possibly (Theoretically) be a boon to his numbers.

  94. Here’s an idea – what do you think the Braves could get for Wickman? From the way our bullpen has been pitching, I don’t think we really lose that much by losing him.

    Soriano could take over the 9th, Yates the 8th, and Moylan the 7th. Villareal would still be the long man, McBride the LOOGY, and Paronto/Devine will share the remaining time.

    That doesn’t seem to be too crazy.

  95. Maroth looks slightly toast. Maybe it’s correctable, but more walks than K’s this year. Bone chips last year, which shouldn’t have long-term effects, should it?

    Better than Carlyle? Perhaps. If our scouts see something, I’d be OK with it for an unimportant trading chip. We do need a real #3, though.

    He has averaged 6 innings per start this year, so he has that going for him.

  96. (Maroth) — He’s coming back from a serious, season-ending surgury. His history is that of a dependable pitcher. Two years ago he went 14-14 for a team that lost 100 games. Last year he was 5-2 and pitching superbly until he was injured.

    Even this year he is 4-2 and the team is 4-1 in his no-decisions.

  97. I thought Wickman had a no-trade clause.

    I would like Billingsly, but recent injuries have worked in his favor in LA. We could give them Escobar and Ayabar. Between Furcal and Escobar, Nomar would have to start packing cotten into his glove.

  98. This talk of Andruw is sitting is just plain crazy. It’s not crazy to say that it should happen, it’s just that Bobby is loyal almost to a fault to his veterans. Sitting Andruw for any extended period of time would be the most shocking thing I’ve seen as a Braves fan.

    I think Andruw has actually burned some bridges this year but not listening just to TP, but not listening to other veterans. Red Sox/ESPN broadcaster Dave O’Brien said last night during the broadcast something to the extent of “there have been rumblings in the clubhouse that Andruw has not been listening to anybody this season except for his agent.” That’s as close to the quote as I could get, but you get the drift.

    There’s no doubt in my mind that he’s gone after the year. The thing that pisses me off as a Braves fan is that the Braves historically (Murphy, Maddux, Glavine, etc.) have always wanted to get rid of guys a year too early than a year too late. Why was Andruw treated differently than those guys ?? JS should have traded him last year before Andruw got his 10/5 rights. This year, there’s no way in hell he’s accepting a trade and he knows he’s gone after the year, so he just doesn’t give a shit, in my opinion. That is what’s most frustrating to me.

  99. Dodgers don’t need any bullpen help, they have one hell of a BP. And some amazing relief prospects in the minors
    Billingsley is going to start this week

  100. I’ve been advocating trading Wickman (would free up some salary) since we got Gonzo and Soriano. I’d still be up for it, assuming he can bring back a good return.

  101. With our bullpen’s history and especially after Gonzo ending his season, I’d be VERY surprised if we traded Wickman. He’ll be gone next year with Gonzales coming back.

  102. I think Davies is probably a No. 4 starter, in the end. Could be a 3 if he gets any consistency.

    Also, I know Maroth is the best we can expect to get if we’re trading a reliever, but my point is that maybe we’re gonna have to stop this dilly-dallying around and actually trade someone worth something, because we need a No. 3 starter. Quit trying to find crappy stopgaps and just trade either Escobar or Salty. You’re going to have to anyway.

    Stop listening to McGuirk who’s over there in the corner going nuts because you’re about to trade “young talent” and make the damn trade. That’s all I’m saying.

  103. Somebody on DOB’s blog mentioned Elijah Dukes, that guy makes Carlos Zambrano look calm and normal by comparison, I hope it’s not him, he’s clearly talented, but that guy needs serious help.

  104. Trading Wickman is very dangerous. You’re essentially back to what you were at the end of last year. You have to have two dependable guys in your bullpen IMO. If we still had Gonzalez, maybe…but it would be asking for trouble now.

  105. From a quick look at bullpens for the contenders, some possible destinations for Wickman could be – Yankees, Indians, Tigers, Cubs.

  106. I like Mac’s rumor of Escobar for Morris but I don’t think that will get done because the Braves would probably have to throw in another arm and because Morris has the remainder of this year and next year on his 3 yr/$27 mill contract and I can’t see the Braves adding that kind of payroll in the middle of the season.

  107. And trading for anything other than a starting pitcher would absolutely be mind-bogglingly insane BTW, unless you’re doing it specifically to set up a later trade for a starting pitcher.

  108. Trading Wickman would be dumb and I’m pretty sure Schuerholz wouldn’t do something like that after the show he reportedly put on to get Wickman to sign that contract extension. As long as the Braves are somewhat in contention, he stays.

    Some guy on ESPN was just saying that the reason the Braves bullpen is so good is because they can use Soriano in pressure spots and use a relieable veteran for the bases empty ninth inning. Making Soriano the closer would be a mistake this year, as I don’t trust Yates or Moylan to come in in the eighth inning after McBride loads the bases in a four run game and strike out the side. I just don’t.

  109. Obviously, this all depends on what the Braves could get back, which, in my opinion, would have to be a solid #3 or #4 starter.

  110. Somebody would have to be pretty desperate to give away a third or fourth starter for Wickman, given that he’s gonna retire after this year. I mean, we were really desperate last year and didn’t have to trade either James or Davies to get him.

  111. “Somebody on DOB’s blog mentioned Elijah Dukes…”

    That had to be want they wanted, not something Schuerholz would do. Schuerholz will trade for Dukes right after he signs John Rocker to a minor league contract.

  112. “If we traded Wickman, I’d live in constant fear of Soriano getting hurt.”


  113. Just in: Orr and Woodward traded for a bottle of maple syrup and a copy of Slingblade on VHS. Schuerholz is calling it better than HoRam for Soriano.

  114. Nick, well that’s kind of why I brought up the point in the first place, to see what they could get for him. If someone is stupid enough to do it, then Schuerholz is probably the guy to find that team.

    If Wickman is just going to bring us a prospect or medicore first baseman, then the conversation is probably not worth having.

  115. I’d like to keep Wickman, he’s still a good pitcher.

    What would it take to get Teixeira? Should the Braves go after him, or a pitcher?

  116. The original deal involved Sling Blade on DVD, but we were told we would need to throw in either Prado or Paronto to get that, so JS settled.

  117. wow i would that’s a deal, i would have given them a bootleg copy of gigli and a bag of corn nuts. drat, i lost again!

  118. Bobby said before Mondays game in the pregame that Escobar would be on the team until after the Det series and they would make their decision at that point.

  119. I just read McBride to Detroit is a done deal but I can’t find for who anywhere.

  120. Maybe the Braves are getting Roman Colon back. Just kidding. Is this on any of the radio stations in ATL ?

  121. I don’t know, but looking at their roster, outside Verlander and Bonderman (neither of which you would think would be traded) no one seems any better than anyone we have now.

  122. I would have to think that it’s for a minor leaguer and that’s why they called Devine up but they still have to make a decision on Escobar soon.

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