227 thoughts on “Game Thread: July 20, Cardinals at Braves”

  1. Please Ron, don’t bring Stu back. His sillyness has taken enough of everyone’s time.

  2. Although I should say that I did enjoy the ‘curse word derivitive’ posts that he inspired.

  3. Robert and Dan,

    You guys are so passive-aggressive and cute.


    My wife signed up for the Amazon thing where they ship it to our place tomorrow. I just watch the movies.


    Anybody have any idea where Rob Cope or Jay10 are? A couple of regulars I haven’t noticed commenting lately.

  4. I bet they are all out there checking, but not posting. I do that at times because I don’t feel like I have anything to say or just don’t want to bother.

  5. I’m a little late on this, but I just read where the Dodgers blew Glavine up for 6 runs in the first, then went on the lose the game 13-9. Brilliant.

  6. ‘Rissa has been around, I’m pretty sure. Yeah, jenny’s another one. She’d been gone so long I almost forgot. JoeyT is another.

    Kyle B.,

    I think it was the Mets who scored 6 in the first.

  7. Kyle the Mets scored 6 in the top of the 1st and it was 6-2 after one. LA never had the lead but they were losing 9-6 after 3. You’re right though Glavine gave up 10H and 6ER in 2IP.


    The Braves have been trying to swing a deal for Reds right-hander Bronson Arroyo. But the Reds’ asking price so far has been too steep — they’ve asked that top hitting prospect Jarrod Saltalamacchia be included in the deal, and the Braves don’t want to deal Saltalamacchia, who may be their regular first baseman for the rest of the season. … If the Reds are going to deal a pitcher, they’d rather it be Kyle Lohse, since they have Arroyo signed through 2010 and they believe that, in the NL Central, nobody’s more than a year away from contending.

  9. in the NL Central, nobody’s more than a year away from contending.

    I dunno, Krivsky, the Brew Crew look like they’re just getting started.

  10. Arroyo is working on a string of five straight quality starts so I can see the interest, but obviously Salty cannot be involved.

  11. I’d say the Reds are more than a year from contending. The Brewers are only going to get better and the Cubs may add ARod in the offseason. I don’t get the feeling Salt is going to be traded unless we are swept off our feet.

  12. Re: #5—I have a friend heading to Barnes & Noble tonight to get copy of the new Harry Potter at midnight, so I gave him $20 to snare one for me, too. I’m actually glad the Braves are on the West Coast next week–more time to read…

  13. Yeah, the Brewers are chock full of young, talented players. I’d bet even money they’ll reach at least the NLCS twice in the next three seasons.

  14. Re: Harry Potter

    My sister’s family (mother/father/2 daughters, in process of moving from Panama) is in NYC today & they’re doing the Times Square Harry Potter thing tonight. They timed their vacation for the event months ago.

    I took them to the Yankee game yesterday & they were way more excited about Harry Potter.

    I never read the books, never saw the films, have no opinion about it.

    Don’t wanna be assholish (an accusation that’s not entirely unwelcome), but here’s my book recommendation for the forum: Dale Carnegie’s “How to Win Friends & Influence People.”

  15. By the way B. Jones got promoted to Richmond yesterday. It’ll be interesting to see how he does.

    Also, I’ll be getting the book as soon as I have some time to sit down and read it.

  16. I never read the books, never saw the films, have no opinion about it.

    Me neither, I thought I was the only one.

  17. I never read the books, never saw the films, have no opinion about it.

    Ditto. Same thing with Lord Of The Rings. Fantasy ain’t my thing.

  18. Or The Carpenters.

    “Superstar” was a fave, but also “Calling Occupants of Interplanetary Craft,” their Klaatu cover. Poor girl.

  19. we could talk about Rosenthal’s latest comments

    The Braves apparently won’t give up Yunel Escobar or Jarrod Saltalamacchia to get Mark Teixeira. Neither of ’em. No doubt John Schuerholz will spend the next ten days trying to get Jon Daniels to settle for less.

    Also states Arroyo is not available

  20. That would be nothing short of a con job for JS to get Mark Teixeira without giving up Escobar or Saltalamacchia. I’d REALLY like to see that.

  21. The commment I made to Jenny that AAR is referring to was back when we traded Marte for Renteria. She was constantly, annoyingly talking about the Red Sox, and I would be amazed if I were the one who grew tired of it. During the process of that trade, she was probably responsible for one-fourth of the posts on the whole site, and most of those mentioned something about the Red Sox. It got old, and I told her what I thought about it. If that made her leave, then so be it, but I doubt that’s the case. Surely no one is running home crying to their mom about internet bullies.

  22. ESPN is running those commercials for RGX body spray during PTI these days. The spokesmodel, while smoking hot, is so over the top with the come-hitherness that I bust out laughing any time. Evidently what “separates the men from the boys” is something called body spray.

  23. I assume JS knows a thing or two about “posturing.” Ain’t no way Yunel Escobar is going to be untouchable in a Mark Teixera trade, but it will make Daniels want him a whole lot more…

  24. Lineup:

    W. Harris LF
    E. Renteria SS
    C. Jones 3B
    A. Jones CF
    B. McCann C
    J. Francoeur RF
    K. Johnson 2B
    J. Franco 1B
    C. James P

  25. Standard tactic.

    “Oh, no, I can’t trade X.”
    “I really hate to give up X.”
    “Well, if I’m going to give up X, I’ll need something else. Okay, I’ll throw in Y to balance the trade.”

    Where X is Escobar and Y is Davies or someone of that ilk.

  26. Why is Franco starting again? Why won’t Bobby put Salty there regularly now to give him an opportunity to develop. Sitting and watching won’t develop him as a hitter or first baseman. Free Salty!

  27. I think Bobby is letting Salty rest he’s played quite a few games in a row and his average has been dropping. Give him the night off and let Franco work off some rust. he’ll he’s only had 53 ab’s this year.

  28. Is there yet a movement to get Diaz more playing time? I haven’t been monitoring it that much lately, but it does seem that Willie Harris, with his 359 OPS this month, isn’t exactly holding up his end of the platooning bargain. But then, it’s a small sample size of at bats.

  29. Adam,

    I think Willie is obviously struggling, and at the least should switch places in the order with KJ, so someone is on base when Renteria and Chipper come to bat. It wouldn’t hurt to give Diaz some more AB’s either.

  30. Also in regards to Salty he doesnt hit with power left handed from what I’ve seen. I’m guessing they’ll split time against RH and Salty will get all the work against lefties. Franco hits righties better than lefties for some reason

  31. #52

    Julio’s splits have varied wildly in the last few years, maybe as much due to decreased playing time as anything. This year he hasn’t hit RHP at all, but is hanging in there vs. LHP. Last year was the complete opposite.

    In his first three years as a Brave, he was a pure lefty masher.


  32. The team that’s really drooling over Teix is the Yanks. They have some scary good pitching prospects (Phil Hughes, Joba Chamberlain, Ian Kennedy) that everyone is asking for, but Cashman seems to be resolute.

    Fact is, Tuscaloosa native Andy Phillips is holding his own at 1B right now. They don’t really need Teix, and neither do we.

  33. ububba – I agree entirely with your last sentence. Salty should be at first tonight and Diaz in LF. Give them the chance to show it won’t work. Now’s a good a time as any while we are still close and the deadline is ahead of us.

  34. Bobby is in love with his platoons. Plus, Terrence Moore would probably murder someone if Willie Harris was benched.

  35. I have a hard time believing that Texas would trade Teixeira for anything. 27-year-old still a couple of years from free agency and who hits like a beast consistently. This is a guy you build around, not someone you trade away. (And for damn sure not for Escobar, who’s not a bad player but will never be as good as Teixeira.)

  36. Besides – Escobar and Davies (or another pitching prospect) should be enough to net a #3 starter.

    I was thinking earlier – whom would we need to package to get both Snell and Damaso Marte from the Pirates?

  37. A lot.

    As for Harris starting at the leadoff spot again, I can only assume that Harris is up there because he’s fast, and that Johnson is hitting seventh because he can drive in runs.

    That’s the only explanation I can come up with.

  38. Yes, I know Bobby loves the platoons. Sometimes it just hurts to watch him go down with the ship in the name of loyalty. Harris was obviously going to begin regressing, and it may be that he’s not struggling, but starting to hit the way he always has… which is very badly. I love the fact that the guy plays hard, runs well, and even has a bit of plate discipline, but these being the dog days and all, it may be time for the guy with the 358 avg to get a chance to hit every day.

  39. @58. That is exactly right. Ole Terrence does seem to go back to that particular well quite a bit, doesn’t he?

  40. If Willie continues his recent slide, I’d like to see us pick up Klesko just before the trade deadline and designate Thorman for assignment. I’ve never liked Thorman, and I’ve seen enough.

  41. I haven’t really read Moore since I was in high school – a decade ago, the last time I lived in Atlanta actually – but does he really ignore results?

  42. I would assume that he does, since I’ve heard from people here that he lobbied the Braves to get more black Americans to play for them.

  43. I don’t think its fair to the other players, if they have to be benched to help the team so be it

  44. I doubt that the Rangers want Escobar. They have a pretty good shortstop in Michael Young and a potentially strong second baseman in Ian Kinsler. I also doubt they think that Escobar is a slugging 3B. If we are to get Teixiera from Texas, they’ll likely want pitching and outfield help.

    And as far as stringing the GM up, it’s not all that likely. He’s young and inexperienced, but the owner is a dolt when it comes to baseball.

  45. Saltalamacchia hasn’t been hitting too well lately. .204/.259/.245, two doubles, no homers in July. Maybe he needs a day off or two.

  46. No, pretty much all three were Molina’s fault. The third strike was definitely a WP, but hardly unplayable.

  47. Speaking as someone who once pursued (and failed to realize) a career in newspaper journalism, I was long ago mystified by Terence Moore — not by his preoccupation with race so much as his awkward, stilted prose. It made me angry that he had such a high-profile job, whereas I couldn’t even get an interview, so I quit reading him around 1993 or so.

  48. you are ridculous mr. swings @ everything. there is no reason for that language, especially against julio. wait until he does something wrong before you bash him. that sounds like an mlbtraderumors comment.

  49. I think Bobby just want to give Julio some at bats and give Salty a rest. Still, I’d rather see Salty out there in an everyday role with Franco pinch hitting.

  50. You are right. I am ridiculous but only for continuing to give a crap about a team that would make such a moronic move.

  51. I think you’re right, Coz. Cox is just giving Julio a jumpstart after a long period of inactivity. Kinda like an old Volvo.

  52. Also I fail to see how .208/.338/.264 beats .278/.331/.414. Couple that with the fact that one player is a stud prospect that needs to see major league pitching to continue his development and the other is a 49? year old journeyman and you’ve got the makings of a historically stupid decision.

  53. If you really don’t believe that Franco is going to be in a platoon at 1B at the very least you’re in for a rude awakening. He’s the latino Keith Lockhart!

  54. Anybody know what the standard career path of a first base coach looks like? Doesn’t seem like they’re typically on the managerial track—at least they haven’t been with the Braves—and it’s something I’ve just not really thought about before.

    I like Hubbard a lot.

  55. yes, except he’s much better, and if you dont want to continue to root for the braves, i promise to not be offended. my feelings, however, on your hopeless negativism toward almost everything, i will be offended.

  56. I don’t even know what a first base coach does. Sometimes they can be a manager in waiting. Other times they’re a spare hitting coach or (in this case) infield coach.

  57. @94

    Rickey would like to know the answer to that question, too.

    Lee Mazzilli is the last guy I remember to go from first base coach to manager. OTOH, we’ve had at least two third base coaches become managers in the last few years (Yost, Gonzalez).

  58. I don’t know I am responding but here we go.

    Kelly Johnson
    Francouer’s improved plate discipline
    Renteria (at the plate)
    Willie Harris’ surprise contributions
    Andruw Jones coming back to life
    Soriano for Ramirez
    Matt Diaz

    Bobby Cox
    Julio Franco (Cox)
    No playing time for Diaz (Cox)
    Harris hitting leadoff (Cox)
    Kelly Johnson platooning and hitting 7th (Cox)

    You can probably see the trend.

  59. Cardinals are getting much better swings the second time through. That’s usually how it goes with Chuckie though.

  60. Mr Swings @ Everything Says – To be fair, while some of those decisions by Cox may be negatives, he himself (in my opinion) could never be considered a negative. Not with his track record.

  61. Texas also has a stud prospect at 1B/OF or maybe just DH in Jason Botts, and their minor-league system is actually quite blessed with several strong pitching prospects. Not to say they could not use more of them, but if the Braves are after Tex it is an absolute fact that they are sending Salty to Arlington.

    If the Braves get Tex without dealing Salty, Salty goes back to the minors because he’d be totally blocked on the Braves team. My guess is that JS has seen what pitchers are available and has decided none of them are worth dealing Salty for. Tex, however, fills the only major offensive hole on the Atlanta roster this year (1B) and could conceivably serve as a major trading chip next deadline if it does not look like he will re-sign.

    I’m all for it: Salty should be dealt (along with whomever else it takes) to get Tex on the team.

    If Salty is the asking price for the SP’s on the market right now, why not deal him for someone who is actually worth a premium prospect?

  62. I suppose that’s right about Tex, but then again, are we going to be able to pony up the money to keep him here so that this doesn’t turn into another Butler/Jacoby debacle?

  63. You CANNOT walk Aaron F’n Miles leading off the inning, Chuck. That’s terrible.

  64. I think “feast or famine” can accurately describe any offense, not just the Braves. The Phillies have been playing that game lately, and they have a better offense than we do.

  65. Sam, a more recent and fitting precedent is the JD Drew deal. Like Drew, Tex has ties with Atlanta (Tex went to Georgia Tech) and JS may view him (Like he did with Drew) as someone who would enjoy playing in Atlanta.

    Both players are Boras clients, as well. Even if the Braves lost Tex to Free Agency, the draft picks accrued soften the blow, like they did when Drew bolted for LA.

    Both players seem also to be a bit aloof, and may only be one-year “rentals.”

    Funny, Wainwright was STL’s primary haul for Drew…

  66. I’m really becoming a big fan of the Sciambi/Simpson announcing team. They have a fine rapport going, unlike Rathbore and (fill in color analyst here).

    Trivia: How long was Rathbun a Braves announcer?

  67. Does it look to anybody else like the ump’s strike zone for KJ has been larger than for most? Seems like 2 or 3 strikes to Kelly over the course of the game have really been questionable calls.

  68. Anyone listening on the radio? Skip’s musings on ’13’ being an unlucky number…classic.

  69. all the inside pitches to Kelly look inside of course. He’s called all of them

    Another great outing from Chuckie, 7IP 6H 1ER 2BB 4K = 107 pitches

  70. Agreed, the pixie dust is gone. Time to end the platoon. He’s still better than Pete Orr, however, as he can still pinch run effectively.

  71. Well, the stars lined up wrong–how else do you explain a Thor hit and a Renteria Strikeout?

  72. What a horrible jump he must’ve gotten—out by 3 feet.

    I’m not sure why Edgar took that pitch, though.

  73. To think that this guy was thought to be a future closer … God forbid.

  74. “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” — Benjamin Franklin

  75. Soriano is the Braves best reliever. Give the guy a break–everyone goes through a bad stretch.

  76. He might be the best when looking over the entire season, but he is not the best right now.

  77. I agree that he has been our best reliever all year. But, that said, he must need about a week off. Perhaps a trip to the DL to keep Cox from using him.

  78. Gotta love the dive after the catch. Very Little League-esque.

    I lied—I’m still here.

  79. I’m not sure, certainly, but isn’t Soriano always ineffective when he’s pitching in a non-‘hold’ or non-save situation? Sure seems like it.

  80. another great start from our guys only to be wasted by Soriano. All of this overuse on the pen is coming to haunt us

  81. Yeah, I don’t fault Soriano too much, but his appearances sure have become demoralizing.

  82. That “Ugly Stick” guy needs a new wife. Jeez, all he wants to do is go fishing…

  83. Soriano is on pace to throw 68 innings. He threw 60 last year. That’s not an inordinate amount for a middle reliever, so I don’t really buy the overused excuse.

  84. Well, after tonight, he’s on pace to throw 70 innings, but it’s a good point, Jeremy. I will now start to place a significantly higher amount of blame on Soriano.

  85. yeah, if thats the case, he’s just sucking it up. Thats the only way to look at it. So now not only does our 7th inning guy suck, but the setup man does also

  86. hey Paronto try getting your pitches down!!

    so we are now 4-4 against terrible teams after the break

  87. Braden Looper’s been very mediocre lately, so maybe we’ll beat him tomorrow.

  88. am I wrong here or did Soriano give up a 3 run hr in Chuckie’s last start to lose the lead, come in after Smoltz’s start and lose the lead, and now come in after Chuckie again to get the loss

    Is that right

  89. I really don’t like leaving Julio in here. Just a DP waiting to happen. Hope I’m wrong.

  90. Simpson just said you dont want to lose your backup catcher. hey Dick its the bottom of the ninth and you’re down two. Shut-up

  91. Oh, well. Time to fire up the blender for some adult Squishees and hope the Metropolitans lose.

  92. doesnt matter because Harris doesnt even have warning track power. ridiculous to let Harris hit there!!!!

  93. move KJ back to leadoff and get Diaz the starting job, this crap isnt working anymore

  94. LOL, yeah so you lose your backup catcher…. But you lose the fucking game if you don’t score. God damn that kind of thinking is infuriatingly retarded.

  95. Observation: Julio’s pulling everything now. Before, everything was going to right field.

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