516 thoughts on “Game Thread: July 24, Braves at Giants”

  1. Hank could be in trouble tonight. Bonds owns Huddy. Bud will be in the house as if it weren’t already enough of a circus.

  2. Mac,

    I’m getting a kick out of the Satanic Video Sentiment.

    Fave Quote from the Deadspin Piece: “Barry Bonds is evil.”

  3. so somebody left a comment on an espn.com piece about tex being on the block. it claimed that he was a clubhouse cancer, hypercritical of the younger guys, and that he hasn’t gotten along with his managers (that’s usually not a problem with bobby). any credence to this? or is this just some dude spouting off? anyone else heard these things?

  4. It sounds like he has been with Texas, at least. That seems why they want to unload the guy. But if Sheffield can play in Atlanta with very little complaint (at least while he was here) then I suspect, so too can Tex. I’d rather not have a guy so potentially disruptive, but one can hope the Bobby magic works on him. Unless, of course, Cox refuses to play him just to get Julio some time at bat.

  6. I went to shake hands with the president in Miami,
    I went to a rock show to see Mick Jagger.
    You’d never believe it, the surprise of my life,
    They had paint on their faces just like mommy.

    Give me 9 assholes that can rake. If that’s not an option, JUST PLAY MATT DIAZ! Franco will start again tonight according to Van Wieren on last night’s broadcast.

  7. supposedly the rangers were asking for one of the indians best prospects (adam miller) for kenny lofton. ummm… riiiiight. i’m sure they’re asking for the world (like washington was last year with soriano)… hopefully they’ll want to get rid of him enough that they’ll eventually do it (like philly did with abreu). we’ll see.

  8. What are the odds that JS has also been inquiring as to how much money Texas will send Atlanta’s way when they land not only Teixeira, but also (surprise) Kevin Millwood?

    If JS truly is on the hunt for a solid SP, why not Millwood? Assuming Texas wants to deal him, and will cover some salary, Millwood fits in Atlanta better than 95% of the other options, and yet I have not seen his name mentioned anywhere.

    What do you guys think? JS always seems to make a surprise move–could this be it?

  10. Well, no one is talking about trading Edgar for him…we can give them back Davies.

  12. Nine assholes who can rake:

    RF: Gary Sheffield
    CF: Ty Cobb
    LF: Barry Bonds
    3B: Ben Chapman
    SS: Garry Templeton
    2B: Rogers Hornsby
    1B: Pete Rose
    C: A.J. Pierzynski
    P: Steve Carlton

  16. Millwood had a lot of success in Atlanta, and I can’t imagine he’d be upset at a return engagement, especially since he not only escapes the AL but also that Texas ballpark.

    I don’t know if he left on bad terms, as JS seemed very frustrated at “having” to trade him at the time.

    As a Boras client, he already has the fat contract and is covered for a few more years. This is exactly the type of deal JS makes (Hampton, Renteria) when a guy he wants has a bad contract and is having/has had a bad year. Get the player and a boatload of cash to Atlanta and watch the guy bounce back.

    Come on, it could happen. Millwood is a better bet than Garland, Morris, Contreras and most any other overpaid, high-priced veteran…

  18. UBubba, I think Hal Chase has to out-prick Pete Rose at first base. Not to mention Thurman Munson behind the plate. And couldn’t we shoehorn Dick Allen in at DH?

  21. CF: Ty Cobb
    1B: Pete Rose
    2B: Rogers Hornsby
    LF: Barry Bonds
    RF: Gary Sheffield
    3B: Ben Chapman
    C: A.J. Pierzynski
    SS: Garry Templeton
    P: Steve Carlton

    I’d of gone with that line-up, but it works just as well for the purpose. Why not go with DH rules and hit Allen after Sheffield?

  22. Well, he could play third I guess. I confess my ignorance as to what level of asshole Ray Chapman was…

  24. Whoops, wrong Chapman- I guess getting killed by a pitch doesn’t make you a bad person. My mistake.

  25. No no, Ben Chapman. He was a Phillie and all-around asshole. One of the bigger taunters to Jackie Robinson, I believe.

  26. Ben Chapman was the racist manager of the Phillies in 1947 who dogged Jackie Robinson every chance he got. He was a pretty good hitter in the 1930s, though.

  27. I learn something new every day. Thanks for filling me in! His 1931 line is an interesting one, even with the inflated stats of the era- 61 stolen bases for a 3b, along with pretty good power…

  28. And by the way, someone pretty erudite sponsors his page! Don’t see too many random Nabokov quotes popping up. Anyone who hasn’t read Pale Fire should, it is confusing- well, it is if you’re a little slow like me- but an incredible novel.

  30. I had to look it up.

    “William Benjamin Chapman (December 25, 1908 – July 7, 1993) was an American outfielder and manager in Major League Baseball who played for several teams, most notably the New York Yankees. During the period from 1926 to 1943 he had more stolen bases than any other player, leading the American League four times. After twelve seasons, during which he batted .302 and led the AL in assists and double plays twice each, he spent two years in the minor leagues and returned to the majors as a National League pitcher for three seasons, becoming manager of the Philadelphia Phillies, his final team. Although he made his name as a fast, ferocious and hard-nosed player, that reputation was eclipsed by the racist role he played in 1947 as manager of the Phillies, opposing the presence of Jackie Robinson on a major league team on the basis of Robinson’s race.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Chapman_%28baseball_player%29

  32. Obviously his salary would be a problem, but ability-wise Millwood would be a great pickup. He led the league in ERA just two seasons ago and his statistical profile since moving to Texas is that of a pitcher who has been beaten down by his home park. He hasn’t done well this season of course, but buying low isn’t such a bad thing…

  34. Just imagine how bad that team would hit due to the ultra low clubhouse chemistry.

  35. Ian Snell got rocked again. I think this is the third straight time.

    And yet I’d still trade Saltalamacchia for him.

  36. As for Millwood – I’d be perfectly happy to include Davies in a deal to get Millwood. But Salty and Davies + prospect for Tex and Millwood? Still lacking the reliever.

  37. Go for the blockbuster:

    Saltalamacchia, Davies, Thorman and Matt Harrison for Teixeira, Millwood, Otsuka and cash.

  39. davies has killed me this year. obviously, he’s been incredibly frustrating. but i’d like to see JS hold onto him unless it meant the braves got something really good in return. i think he was brought up too early out of necessity (as some pointed out earlier, that’s been a trend as the braves have tried to compete with payroll restrictions). give him some time to get his walks down and i think he could be pretty good.

  40. i think jonah keri (my favorite of the espn.com guys… he writes once a week and for some reason it’s on page 2) mentioned kevin millwood a few weeks ago as a good piece for a contender in the 2nd half. i agree. i could see him back in atlanta.

    the money would be an issue… but he doesn’t have toooo ludicrous of a contract for what pitching goes for these days.

    didn’t he not get along with mazzone? or am i making that up? obviously that wouldn’t be a problem… i’m just trying to remember correctly. can anyone else remember?

  45. Thanks for the feedback/support on the Millwood thing. I’m going to give JS a ring and see what he thinks…

  46. speaking of jonah keri… just got an email back from him about 1B. didn’t say much except that he expects JS to make some kind of move.

  47. Renton: Right. So we all get old and then we cannae hack it anymore. Is that it?
    Sick Boy: Yeah.
    Renton: That’s your theory?
    Sick Boy: Yeah. Beautifully fucking illustrated.
    Renton: Give me the gun.

  48. franco in the lineup again. is there a trade in progress? i dont know, i dont know.

  49. Yes. I’m in the process of trading my allegiance to another team that doesn’t field Julio F. Franco.

  51. Be thankful that you’re only getting tired of me. I was tired of Franco at least a week ago.

  52. Look, we all know that the lineup out there is not the Braves’ best lineup, but pissing and moaning about it like a little brat isn’t going to change it.

  53. Burns: Say, who’s that goat legged fellow in left field?

    Smithers: That’s Barry Bonds sir, the prince of darkness. He’s your eleven o’clock…

  54. Yeah but Sam, don’t we have a right, as fans, to complain? We pay the money and we suffer through the losses, so we have the right to demand something better.

  55. I don’t think we necessarily have a right to complain. We can complain, but I just don’t see the value in complaining about something we can’t affect directly. So I see no reason to complain.

  56. Okay, everyone, be nice.

    Once again, I have to get up in the morning. However, I should be able to stay up for the last two games assuming they end after a reasonable time.

  57. Fans don’t have a right to complain? Since when? That’s one of the fundamental rights as a sports fan of ANY team. Doesn’t mean everyone has to, but if you pay money in support of a team, or even if you just call yourself a fan, you get the right to demand a satisfactory product.

  59. I guess I view the term right a bit differently. Bottom line, I just don’t see the point of doing the equivalent of screaming at a wall. It accomplishes nothing.

  60. You know, if I ever form a band, there is a very high probability that it will be named “Craig Sager”.

  63. You know, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over hoping for a different result each time.

  64. God forbid Chip Caray makes the call on a Barry Bonds homerun. Especially one that ties or breaks the record, as it will be history and people in the future will have to hear it and see how bad of an announcer he is.

    Let’s just say Chip Caray’s call wouldn’t be like Vin Scully’s after Aaron’s 715th homerun.

  68. You know, I think I’m in the minority here, but just seeing the apparent joy that Julio and Francoeur get out of playing the game is awesome. They might not be the best on the field, but I’d pay to see them play a hell of a lot faster than I would to see someone like Jeff Kent.

  70. If you look at the old pics & videos of Aaron immediately after hitting #715, you’ll see a very young Craig Sager very close to Hammering Hank.

    My mythical band in college was called Rafael Ramirez—the “real” one was named after my roommate.

    Also, I always thought that Mookie Blaylock was a much better band name than Pearl Jam.

  74. I agree with josh. I do think Julio and Francoeur get a lot of joy out of the game, and that’s nice.

  75. He was looking curve… got a fastball. Oh well. He’s still fucking cool.

  76. Sorry Sam, forgot we can’t complain about our 48-year old 1b batting lower than scott thorman and our cleanup hitter batting …whatever. You’re right. This has been working.

  83. hahaha. douglass 1, dfan 0.

    (remember this is all in good fun [I’d buy you a beer to ease the pain if you were being this disgruntled at a bar])

  85. That’s it, I’m out of here. I shouldn’t even be watching the game right now. I have other things to do.

  86. Morris has that damn curveball working tonight. I was hoping tonight we’d smoke him to make those trade rumors look even more ridiculous.

  87. I’m not that disgruntled. Just disagree with being told we don’t have a right to complain about the painfully obvious deficiencies with this team.

  88. But what would you do about it disgruntledfan?

    Is there some better option for us in center field?

    Do we have some experienced slugger to plug in at first base?

    no. So what do you want Bobby to do about it? What would you do about it (besides bitch on the internet)?

    I agree that Franco doesn’t need to be an every day option as he has been this week, but we just picked him up…this isn’t gonna last.

    I’m not above complaining either, but we don’t any significantly better options than what we’ve got out there.

    Am I disappointed in Andruw’s season also? hell yeah I am. But still what other option do we have?

  89. I say you have a right. It doesn’t bother me, but I do like positive-ness more. This is (IMO) the funnest Braves team to watch in a while.

  90. I’ll go with winning games first, closely followed by seeing millionaires playing a game act like they are enjoying themselves.

    So no, I don’t think it’s great to make Julio a full-time starter, something he hasn’t been in 17 years (I made that number up).

    Any truth to the rumor that Bobby petitioned MLB to let Julio retroactively replace all of Salty’s playing time?

  91. Harris looked good in CF the other night when he came in for Andruw. What would be wrong with playing him AND Diaz, arguably our best hitter this year (with renteria)? As far as 1b, I don’t know why this is a surprise. JS made the mistake of putting his hopes on Thorman/Wilson/Franco, so it’s his job to clean it up (cough Teixeira cough).

  92. I guess it’s just difference of opinion. I’d rather get behind a team of sucks that love the game like Franco, Francoeur, and others that seem to as well like Harris and McCann.

    If my “/heart baseball” team goes 79-83, that’s ok. I’d rather cheer for them than a soulless 100 win team.

  94. Fair enough. I think you have to realize that Harris and Diaz’s numbers are both skewed by the fact that they face left and right handers respectively for the most part. Both of them are pedestrian at best on defense, while Andruw (though he has lost a step over the years) is still an elite center fielder. Neither of them have the power that Andruw has, even when he is struggling. I would STRONGLY disapprove of starting Willie Harris over Andruw…gimme a break on that one.

    As far as our situation at 1b, I agree it’s a big problem for the team…but not as big a problem as pitching. We’ll see though if we make a move at the deadline.

    Can’t believe you would start Harris over Andruw, even with the season each of those players are having.

    Huddy in a jam here.

  98. Harris plays adequate defense. Andruw’s defense, while still good, doesn’t make up for the runs his year-long slump has cost. A few nights ago, for example, he came to bat with a runner on 3rd w/less than 2 outs 3 or 4 times and screwed it up every time. I’d have much rather that been a guy LIKE harris, who’s at least going to put the ball in play, hustle, leg out grounders, or, on occasion, go 6-6.
    Do I think he’s better than Andruw? Not overall. But this particular year, he’s hitting .350 and Andruw is hitting .210.

  101. Obviously Andruw is having a mind bogglingly horrible year. But under no circumstances would I start Willie Harris over Andruw Jones every day in 2007…ever.

    Harris is hitting .214 this year against left handers…he would not be hitting .328 if he played every day. Plus, even with his 6-6 game the other day, he’s struggling lately.

    That said, if Andruw keeps striking out on 3-0 counts with RISP, I’m gonna have an aneurysm.

    :x :x :x

  103. Also, I DO support taking the clean up spot away from Andruw. We just can’t do it anymore. If he’s gonna break outta the slump, we can’t afford to wait for him to do it in that spot – especially as hot as Chippuh is.

  106. poor Bonds in left chasing balls everywhere

    boo hoo! my knees are bone-on-bone! haha!

  108. I was close, 14 years ago for 500 AB’s, but at DH. 16 years ago with 500 AB’s as a 2B.

    I don’t have a problem with any team that is trying. Even less of a problem with a team that generally plays smart baseball, doesn’t beat themselves often, etc. Generally if you hit both those, though, you’re doing fine anyways.

  110. Well, even if the bat speed isn’t there, at least he doesn’t offer at pitches way outside of the strike zone…

  114. Ok, I have to comment. Andruw and Julio both looked absolutely lost in the same inning that everyone–including TIM HUDSON–got hits. I’m just sayin’.

  117. @113

    Julio didn’t look lost. He’s just late on almost every pitch

    Andruw on the other hand looks awful. He’s flinching and buckling.

  118. All of this “barry bonds is due up in the inning” “bonds road to history” blah blah blah is reason alone to hate him.

  120. Agaain, no one is disputing that they are sucking these days. We just don’t have any other options. Obviously Salty is a better hitter than Franco, but as I said earlier, we just picked up Julio this week, and are giving him a few games to get involved with the team…no one, Bobby included, thinks he is the answer at first base.

    It’s not a matter of none of us seeing your point that these guys are struggling…it’s a matter of us not having any better options. When I asked you what you would do about first base earlier, your answer was Tex…he’s not on our team duder…until then…it’s the birds for us.

  123. Why would we want to trade for Tex? That’s just silly. He’s gone after 2008. So we trade a future star that we could have on the cheap for the next few years to rent Tex for 1 season? How does that make sense…

  124. I agree lando.

    Running a baseball team on a budget is a bit harder than our disgruntled friend here understands.

  125. I missed the answer to the trivia question. I know whoever it was hit 138 HRs, but I didn’t catch the name. Can anyone help me?

  126. It makes sense b/c our “future star” isn’t a 1b, and julio franco is getting his at bats.
    Tex IS my answer, b/c it’s a viable option. The 1b problem can’t be solved with the current team–JS has to go outside and get someone.

  127. How exactly do you know Saltalamacchia is a future star lando?

    On the other hand, we KNOW Teixera is a star.

  130. I understand running a team on a budget. I didn’t say to get A-Rod. But you can’t have holes at 1st and CF and make the world series. You just can’t. Not with a shaky bullpen and no 5th starter.
    But y’all are all right, and I’m wrong, so I’ll shut up.

  132. I don’t Dan, but pretty much everyone on this board agrees he has the potential to be one. I’m not willing to trade that way for 1 season of Tex. I’d think about it if it was for 2 years.

  134. Douglass, agree and disagree.

    Agree on Andruw (the question is whose OPS is higher from tonight to the end of the year, and it has little to do with who’s hit better so far. All those AB’s are over with.)

    Not sure about Julio. There’s breaking a guy into a team, and then there’s… Well, he’s 48, and he’s already played (less) for us. Maybe 2 games a week? Against LHP’s, please. But I’m not really sure what we’re attempting here. Julio isn’t make or break, so if he never feels “comfortable”… we’re still the 2007 Atlanta Braves.

  136. Disgruntledfan, who cares about 1st? Our pitching needs far outweigh any holes at first and center.

  139. landogarner, you have to take proven over potential.

    Or would you rather have Andy Marte back instead of Renteria?

  141. I agree, but there aren’t a lot of great starters out there. There IS a 1b that Texas has actually LOWERED the price on that would provide a high OBP, good defense, power, RBI’s, etc.

  143. Dan, seriously….. 1 season of Tex is not worth it. We have pitching needs that far outweigh our 1st base needs.

    Trading Salty for a 1st basemen should be the last thing on your mind. WE NEED PITCHING!

  144. disgruntledfan.

    look at the 2002 Giants. And that was only the first team I looked at. Very average starting rotation based on ERA+, voids at CF and 1B… sure they had an epic bullpen and Barry Bonds… but they still had gaping holes.

    And if Soriano, Yates, and Moylan all pitch like they did in the first half, that’s our solid bullpen.

  145. [quote]you have to take proven over potential.[/quote]

    This is definitely not always true. You could provide countless examples of this not always being the case. Think the Met’s don’t regret the Kazmir for Zambrano trade every single day?

    And as has already been pointed out, we really can’t afford Teixeira and our true need is pitching. Can’t waste Salty’s value on a quick fix. Gotta think about the long term.

  146. If it was up to me, I’d trade Saltalamacchia for Snell and then package something together to the Nationals for Dmitri Young.

    But the Braves cannot have a Thorman-Franco platoon. It’s obvious the Braves don’t trust Saltalamacchia everyday at first. Do you think his value is better in a Teixera or Snell trade or a back-up catcher playing every fifth day?

  147. I would be much more open to a trade for Snell than Tex…mainly because we can’t expect to hold on to Tex. It would be criminal to waste Salty’s value on that.

  148. Honestly, I don’t care what they do. Tex is available, but so are some decent pitchers. I’ll be happy if JS just improves the team and fixes the problems.

  149. disgruntledfan wrote: I’ll be happy if JS just improves the team and fixes the problems.

    :lol: You make it sound so easy.

  151. In fairness, Zambrano isn’t a good analogy. He was pedestrian at the time of the trade and had been for a couple of years prior. It was just Peterson’s hubris.

  152. Well it’s his job. And from all reports, he’s burning up the phones trying, which is more than I can say for last year. I expect some help at 1st as well as a few pitchers. The players are there to be had.

  153. So your expecting an allstar first baseman, and not one, not two, but A FEW pitchers “as well”…

    …:roll: And who, pray tell, would you trade to get all of these players?

  155. Another quick inning or two, and I think Hudson has a shot at pitching the Braves’ first complete game of 2007.

  157. Well we need a starter and at least one relief pitcher, thus the term, getting a few pitchers. That’s what we NEED and what I’d like to see. Doesn’t mean it’ll work out, but we have the chips to trade. There are teams out there that will take Davies, Thorman, Escobar, Salty, even our AA guys. So it can be done.
    I feel like I’m out on an island here with wanting a 1b and pitching help. This is retarded.

  158. As annoying as Chip Carey can be, I will really miss the quality of TBS broadcasts next year when they drop the Braves. They’re really good at camera angles and actually getting stuff on camera that people want to see again. It will be tough next year only getting to see the Braves play every now and then, and having those broadcasts on ESPN. ESPN broadcasts lack in many things.

  161. disgruntledfan wrote: I feel like I’m out on an island here with wanting a 1b and pitching help.

    No you’re not. If we had Steinbrenner’s budget, we would’ve addressed that in the offseason. I think we all “want” that, but is it plausible?

    disgruntledfan wrote: There are teams out there that will take Davies, Thorman, Escobar, Salty, even our AA guys. So it can be done.

    Maybe we could get something for those guys. But outside of Salty, and maybe someone like Andrus out of the minors, I don’t think we have the chips to address all of our needs, as you imply here. Sure we could get something for all the guys you listed, but guys like Escobar, Davies, and Thorman…give me a break, we’re not gonna get a savior for 2007 for any of those guys. Put the pipe down if you think that. That’s not how things work.

  163. On the possible Tex for Salty trade, this seems like a no brainer for me. If you get Tex you fill a void at 1B with a guy who will be out of a position. I suspect the holdup is probably Texas wheeling with other teams and possibly the money issue. However, JS needs to make this deal happen and get a releiver to boot. This lineup could be stacked with a legitimate stud at 1B.

  169. That strike 3 fastball was Maddux-esque…he loved that 2-seamer on the inside corner against the lefties.

  171. Y’all aren’t crazy. I’d kill to have Teixeira in our lineup…but none of you who keep talking about it have addressed the money issue. Are y’all really so dense that you can’t wrap your mind around the fact hat he makes 9 mil this year and is eligible for arbitration in the offseason and we are a team at the limit of our budget? If we could resign him longterm (maybe there is some scenario in which we could…I dunno, I’m not JS.), I’d be all for it…but I don’t hear anybody saying that we could.

  174. I thought JS said we were under budget, that we were ok money-wise to make a deal. He’s also very good at getting teams to pick up part of the salary (renteria). I trust that JS can make the numbers work, if it’s possible.

  175. LOL. The feud between UA and AU amuses me. I’m invincible in that fight. You can make fun of the “tahd” all you want in front of me…I went to a real college.

  177. alright… I’m going to sleep

    don’t blow this game, Wickman.. or Soriano.. or whoever comes in to pitch

  178. I don’t have the energy to argue alabama/auburn tonight. I’ve been beaten up too much…

  179. lemme guess, you’re a barner? (just basing this on your inability to respond to substantive arguments)

  181. Douglass…how do you know what the money situation is? perhaps the budget has been expanded by Liberty. Maybe Texas will pay part of the salary. Maybe there are plans to unload Renteria in the offseason. There may be insurance relief on Hampton. Who knows about all this?

    The bottom line is we are talking about getting a proven commodity to fill a gaping hole in this years team, with an eye towards winning in 2007. The way the NL is so wide open, it is worth taking a chance to try and win this year. I can’t speak for the payroll issues, but honetsly, no one on here can. Suffice to say there wouldn’t be this much speculation about Tex if there weren’t substance to it.

  182. Actually I went to Alabama and am in law school, plus I responded repeatedly to all substantive arguments, even the poorly-postured ones.

  184. Craig Biggio is retiring at the end of the season.

    As much as I hate his guts, I love how he plays the game, he’s head and shoulders more of a ball player than Bonds will ever be.

    I’m gonna miss that little bastard #7 for Houston.

  185. @ 180 Now that is how you construct a response. You are right, I don’t know that there aren’t those types of plans in the future. If that be the case, I’m open to the idea…very open to the idea. Tex has quite the bat.

    @ 181 No you didn’t. Show me once where you did. All you did was say what you want. Better players at positions that are weak for us. We all want that. How to make it happen is the question.

  187. I will add though, that at this time, it seems Liberty Media has given no indication of expanding the budget. I would love to get back to the glory days of the mid 90s in that respect, but until they give us reason to think it will happen, we shouldn’t be talking like it will.

  188. and disgruntledfan, the one thing I will apologize for is implying that you were affiliated with Auburn. For that, I am sorry. No one deserves that kind of insult thrown at them.

  189. “I thought JS said we were under budget, that we were ok money-wise to make a deal. He’s also very good at getting teams to pick up part of the salary (renteria). I trust that JS can make the numbers work, if it’s possible.”

    I basically said the same thing #180 did. I said before that I don’t have all the answers; when did having an opinion about something mean you have a better way to do it? I’m not a GM, so I’m not privy to all the information JS is. I don’t know how to make the money work. I’m just a fan with an opinion, and my opinion isn’t diminished (or wrong) simply b/c I don’t have a better solution.
    If you missed it, my proposal is to somehow acquire Teixeira, even if it means giving up Salty. I’d also get a left-handed relief pitcher and possibly a starter. I personally like Javier Vasquez, so I’d see what the Sox would want for him.
    But like I said, I’m not a GM, don’t want to be, just want to see the team get better and win the division.

  190. And I won’t take the AU comment personally. I would try and make them look like morons, but Wryn does a good enough job of that on his own.

  191. I feel you on that. I agree that that response of yours adressed the issue at hand. My bad. However, I still think your opinion that we can address 1b AND SP AND the bullpen…it’s just not realistic in any scenario.

    Also, I disagree with starting Harris over Andruw.

    Anyway, we’re all on the same team here. It’s just an exciting time of the year, the trade deadline. It’s fun to talk baseball with dudes (and dudettes) that love the bravo’s. Cheers!

  192. Douglass…I seem to remember hearing Terry McGuirk vaguely allude to the budget being somewhat “fluid” if the situation arose where it needed to be expanded. This was on Atlanta radio sometime back. Anyway, the impression I got was if the team was in contention, and needed a few million to push it over the hump, it would most likely be possible. I wish I recalled the comments more precisely, but that was the gist of it.

  194. We might not see a CG here; Hudson has 91 pitches at this point. Is it possible? Yeah, maybe. But still.

  195. @ 191…

    interesting. I’m big enough to admit when I’ve been ignorant on an issue. I had not heard that, or anything like that. I like the sound of that quote, however, we’ll see how it works out in the long run.

  197. Let him finish Cox! End the embarrassment of being lumped in with the Nationals, Rangers, Royals and Marlins (three last place teams and one fourth place one) as the only teams in MLB with no complete games in 2007.

  198. Unless we score a couple runs here, I think Bobby will let Huddy go until he gives up a baserunner.

    Hudson hasn’t looked this good since the first 3 weeks of the season. Boy, do we need it.

  201. Oh Lord Bobby…please let Hudson finish. this game is eerily similar to those Florida games we lost when Huddy pitched so well only to have teh pen blow it.

  202. It’s weird how we stink it up at home & turn right around and play like champs on the road. We’ve done that a couple times this year.

  205. Teixeira Talk Heating Up
    UPDATE: Jon Heyman of SI.com has a nice rundown of the Teixeira suitors. His sources seem to indicate that the chances of a trade are now better than Rosenthal’s 50/50. Good point raised by Heyman and many commenters – even if the Braves wanted to trade Escobar, the Rangers don’t really have a need for a middle infielder.

    UPDATE 2: Jim Molony of MLB.com says the Red Sox are the frontrunner. The Rangers have scouted all of their major pitching prospects.

    Ken Rosenthal has the latest on Mark Teixeira, who is now 50/50 to be dealt according to one source of his.

    Rosenthal describes the scene as the Braves and Angels at the forefront, with the Yankees, Red Sox, and Giants lingering. Evan Grant adds the Dodgers to the mix. He also suggests the Rangers package Joaquin Benoit with Teixeira to get the best possible player. Interestingly, the Yanks might be after Adam Dunn as another first base option. They may have to focus on Dunn, because Jon Daniels is demanding Joba Chamberlain for Teixeira.

    The Braves were really trying to shake things up; they would’ve done the Jon Garland for Edgar Renteria deal in tandem with a Teixeira acquisition. The Garland proposal has been rejected, but Teixeira is very much alive. Rosenthal describes the Braves as unwilling to trade Yunel Escobar and reluctant to trade Jarrod Saltalamacchia. In my opinion, Salty is the more valuable player. To me, Escobar for Teixeira is the right move.

    I recently talked to ESPN’s Keith Law about Escobar. He told me the glove is there to play shortstop, but he worries about the bat. Based on observation, Law could see Escobar developing into a .300 hitter with little power.

  206. By the way, we’ve only had to suffer through the Dane Cook commercial once tonight! What a rare treat!

  207. The Renteria-for-Garland trade reminds me of the trade that got Paul Depodesta fired.

  208. “I just wanna win & keep Hudson’s arm attached.”

    Do you think about 12 more pitches will make any difference in Hudson’s arm?

  209. Holy hell! If they would take a trade with Escobar as the main piece! We should kill to do it! Escobar is the most overrated thing since…since…I dont even know what.

  210. i don’t see why the braves would be so unwilling to let escobar go. there are plenty of MI in the system… and he *may* become a .300 hitter, and most likely won’t have power.

  215. What trade got Depodesta fired? The one that is the main reason they’re winning the NL West right now?

  227. Why are those dumbasses leading. Theyve got the tying run on deck. Even if they lose it’s only a matter of 10 or 15 minutes at most. Stoopid San Fran hippies.

  242. I think Bobby Cox wants to ensure Hudson didn’t blow the game. If something happens, it’s Wickman’s fault.

  243. Stu, im with you. No one has hit the ball hard off of him at all tonight. If Wickman doesnt save this here, Hudson will go off on someone. A win is a win however

  247. Stu…I agree….hehad the last hiter 0-2 before than Texas leaguer dropped. He still looked fine to me. With Wickman in there, we have seen this scenario before and it scares me.

  250. Yeah, but Feliz is one of the few Giants hitters who’s actually doing anything at the plate. ¡Cuidado!

  251. No problem with the move.

    We don’t know how gassed Hudson was & don’t forget he walked the first 2 guys. Even though he scares me some against any clown with a bit of power (like Feliz), I like Wickman having to only get one out here.

  258. 214 — In 2004, the Dodgers traded Paul Lo Duca, Juan Encarnacion, and Guillermo Mota to the Marlins for Brad Penny and Hee Seop Choi.

    Penny got hurt and Choi did nothing that year, and the Dodgers struggled to the finish with no offense. Despite winning the division, they got knocked out in the 1st round.

    Penny is obviously recovered now, but the trade hurt Depodesta that year.

  265. This game has been about a couple of inches a few different times from ending and being a Braves’ win.

  266. That “Feliz Navidad” call was among the worst of Chip’s I’ve ever heard. And that’s saying something.

  273. The trade hurt Depodesta, but it didn’t hurt the Dodgers. It was a great trade for the Dodgers.

    Also, YOU GOTTA BE FUCKING KIDDING ME.

  284. All you had to do was look at (a) the swings they were taking against Hudson, and (b) Wickman’s road numbers.

    Let’s move acquiring relief help to the top of our priority list, please.

  287. Stu,

    I don’t like the result, but we don’t know that Hudson wasn’t gassed.

    Wickman is the closer & he’s got to get an out. If he can’t do that, he shouldn’t be on the team.

  288. Chip: “This is unbelievable”

    No it’s not. We’ve seen wickman do this all f’n year.

  289. That was almost the first caught stealing, pitcher to shortstop that wasn’t a pickoff I’ve ever seen. Would have been a small consolation.

    Get this fat piece of shit out of there, for fuck’s sake.

  291. anyone feel like this game is already over, are we just waiting to see how we are going to lose it?

  294. Well, I don’t disagree with you that he shouldn’t be on the team. I’m just saying it was obviously the wrong move. Before the result.

  295. Wickman in meltdown mode again. he looks scared to throw a strike.

    Feliz hit his “out” pitch about 390.

  297. Wow…..I don’t know what I can say. Should I keep watching?

    I feel like we can’t possibly win tonight.

  299. so if we lose that means the pen will now have cost us 5 of our 6 losses since the break, however, its midnight and Im officially going to bed. Thanks Bobby!!!!!!!!!!!!

  300. Stu,

    Got another closer right now? We don’t.

    Wickman looked great last night & tonight he’s a bum. What are you gonna do?

  303. Doesn’t matter if we get bullpen help or not. Until he’s cut, wickman’s the “closer” and Bobby’s going to use him there no matter what. See: reitsma, kolb, et al.
    Sorry, Tim. You deserve better.

  304. also thanks for the effort Willie, its the one time I wish Diaz had been out there at least he would’ve given us 100%

  307. Willie could have made a better play on that double….run into Andruw if you have to with the game on the line.

    This bullpen is going to be our undoing.

    I just can’t believe it happened again to Huddy.

  309. And we may not have known whether Hudson was gassed, but we certainly knew Wickman isn’t worth much on the road:

    7.85 ERA, 2.07 WHIP on the road this season. Before that debacle.

  313. @ 199

    I have an eternal hatred of the Houston Astros because I live close enough to Houston that they are the closest ML teams around.

    For over 15 years, I’ve had to endure Astros higlights every night, no matter how great the Braves did.

    I just hate him cuz he’s caused us a lot of trouble in the past, i don’t so much hate him as a ballplayer. I hate facing him, even though he is now old, because he always manages to hit a double or something at a really bad time.

    i completely repsect him as a player, I love the way he plays, as a Braves fan, I hate his guts.

    Make any sense?

  315. Bobby just wants to yell at someone. Yell at yourself for another bad decision.

  318. …seriously, Chip is going to be the death of me, if our bullpen doesnt get me first. His man crush on bonds is sickening.

  320. I really, really, really don’t like how the momentum has shifted, especially for the rest of the series.

    We need to end this one quick.

  323. Things I thought I’d never hear:

    “What a play Barry Bonds!”

    This is what it’s come to. It’s 1 a.m., and I’m severely pissed and I’m going to bed.

    I hate the Braves bullpen. Forever. Hudson walked two and the Giants hitters put tough pitches into play. But I don’t care. Good night.

    The Braves have won (I’m pretty sure) one extra inning game all year. I haven’t recovered from the Reds 15 inning game, and I can’t believe I stayed up for this.

    Anyway…Go Braves.

  325. What good is a closer who can’t close road games?

    I’ve seen the end of this movie too many times. It’s time for a different plan.

  327. I have to take the bar exam tomorrow! Not a good mood going in.

    Good night, all. Maybe I’ll be surprised wheen I wake up tomorrow morning…

  328. But he’s the “closer” so he has to pitch, no matter what.
    If Bobby will stick with Andruw batting .200 for 4 months, he’s sticking with Wickman the rest of the year. He even pitches him in non-save situations, for some reason.

  334. All right, I’m going to bed too. I’ll be damn surprised if the Braves win this thing. I hope they do. That’s all I’m saying.

  337. Seems like we have a new “worst loss of the season” every six days or so.

  341. there’s 6 million smackers that will be freed up for tex, because we should have no reason in hell to sign wickman for next year.

  343. Here comes Bonds, 2 outs and no one on.

    Please please please Villarreal, don’t serve it up.

  344. curious…what is our blown save % thsi year now? It was really good early on, but has taken a hit lately. Soriano had 3 on the last homestand himself, and a loss if i’m not mistaken.

  346. I’m physically ill just watching him go to the plate. Enchiladas were a bad choice.

  360. atleast Bonds is still unclutch

    i guess someone forgot to tell him that he’s allowed to swing

  361. should have been a double swap to get salty to lead off this inning. villareal, our one and only reliable reilever, will only get an inning.

  363. No, Soriano’s the late-game-home-run-giver. I’m absolutely shocked he’s not in the game.

  376. Chip: “Not a bad idea by Ryan Klesko…see if the wind will push it up over the boards…but a little short.”

    SHUT THE F UP YOU HACK!

  379. some mistakes in the game:
    1. andruw in the 4 hole AGAIN. any halfway decent manager will pitch chipper carefully, walk him, and set up the double play ball for druw. put mccann there, trade for someone. F’in do something, but dont continue to send his butt out there with a sub .220 average and expect results.

    2. letting hudson start the 9th, then, letting him continue after 2 walks.

    3. putting wickman in with runners on. mac has discussed this before, and wickman should never be used when he inherits runners.

    4. not doing a double switch, getting salty in the game in the 9th spot, and letting villareal take franco’s 8th spot. conserve pitchers just in case this a marathon.

    i am sure i have missed some…

  380. i’m pretty sure klesko was just trying to hit the ball hard, but who knows? maybe he really was thinking “hmmm… maybe i’ll just loft one and see if the wind will carry it over instead of trying to jack one with my i was scott thorman before scott thorman was scott thorman swing”

    you never know

  381. I know people all of the internet have all kinds of websites saying Tim McCarver, Joe Morgan, Chris Berman or somebody like that is the worst, but I can listen to those guys and not even think about them. But Chip Caray is so bad, he’s the only guy I’ve ever muted the television set because of. He is an embarrassment to Skip Caray and Braves’ baseball on TBS.

  383. I hate chip and everything…

    but McCarver is the worst. I would kill him if I had the chance, just so I never had to hear him call a game again.

  385. if this makes you guys feel any better, reitsma lost tonight. his era is now pushing 6 and horacio’s era is pushing 7. i’m glad they are no longer with us.

  387. Tim McCarver doesn’t screams “GETS HIS MAN” on decent plays. McCarver doesn’t talk about no-hitters or perfect games in the third inning. McCarver isn’t suppose to be an announcer for one team, and scream and cheer for the other. McCarver voice doesn’t sound pre-pubescent boy. And McCarver doesn’t have a laugh that makes people want to committ suicide.

  391. I just hope this is a rough patch for us.

    If this is what our team is truly like, we won’t make the playoffs.

  392. @ 386

    LOL

    and all valid points. Especially about the screaming and cheering for the other team.

    …but something about mccarver’s stiffness. something about his ego. and something about his hair make him the worst for me. And also the fact that he is always calling the playoffs and series.

  394. ^Well, for Douglass, a good thing is this year TBS has the NLCS…however, I don’t know if Chip’s working it.

  398. 390, this has been our team the last 2 seasons. That’s a hell of a rough patch.

  401. Another huge problem with McCarver…he’s always with that fucking Joe Buck…equally as horrid. Or as he would say, “appalling.”

  404. got this on the fantasy notes on espn.com:

    News: Texas and Atlanta are close to a deal that would send Teixeira to the Braves for a package of players that would include Jarrod Saltalamacchia, the Braves’ official web site reports.

    Spin: Jo-Jo Reyes and Elvis Andrus are two other names thrown out as possibly involved in a deal. While this is just a rumor at this point, Braves general manager John Schuerholz always seems to get a deal done at the trading deadline.

    Jul. 25, 1:10 AM ET

  406. interesting. I’m fine with the deal, assuming we can hold onto Tex in some way. Otherwise, I just don’t like the idea of throwing away all that value for a quick fix.

  410. If Texiera was represented by anyone but Boras, I’d like the deal.

  414. They probably think Cormier is ready. Of course, those thoughts existed seven weeks ago, and we remember the result.

  438. Ah…good point, Dan. I hadn’t thought about that. Maybe that’s why we’ve seen so much Franco.

  441. I have an unhealthy affection toward Chipper right now. My god he’s having a great year.

  445. kj
    renty
    chipper
    tex
    mccann
    druw
    frenchy
    diaz/willie

    looks pretty good!!! lets hope we can also get a lefty reliever who’s worth 2 shits.

  448. i like andruw, but i dont like him in our 4 spot. get him out of there. i yearn for tex!!!!

  452. @ 449. 13 inning game or 9 inning game, that neither of them have made it into the game, the universe must be about to collapse on itself or something.

    :shock:

    I’m scared doodz.

  458. i wonder if selig’s still there… maybe he left after 9 thinking it had ended in a tie.

  468. we spoke too soon. Here comes yates. Afterall, he’s been so effective this week. ugh.

  473. WTF!? Good morning, just getting started at work here in Europe and the game is still on, first thing I see is stupid Woodward. Looks like a strange game…

  474. remember how durham wouldn’t take elijah dukes back because of all of the trouble he caused? wonder if richmond would even have woodward. heh heh

  475. (I just got in and am catching the end of the game) That may be one of the worst plays I’ve ever seen a major leaguer make. There is no reason why he doesn’t just take the easy out with a 3-run lead

  476. ububba, he was…bonds was out by 8 steps. he would have looked silly fielding the ball there and going to first. i guess he did look silliER trying for the force. point. counterpoint.

  478. Ryan,

    The easy out is the one where you don’t throw the ball.

    When you’re up by 3, you gotta take the easy out. Bonds’ run meant nothing.

  503. Yeeahhhhh.

    Y’know, if we’d lost this game…well, I can’t even think about it.

    I’m cracking a Beck’s. Nighty-night all…

  506. I hear the Padres are interested in a Peavy for Woodward, Ledezma, and Thorman package. I say go for it.

  509. 8 2/3 with our starter, a 4 run lead, and yet we have to use 6 pitchers. our pitchers will be feeling the affect of this game for a while.

  510. Peanut already has his game recap up. He must be standing by for a trade report.

  512. braves14, who is peanut? Some other braves blog? link? (not that I don’t love this place, but I can’t get enough braves.)

  513. Woodward delenda est.

    And I’ve come to believe that Wickman can’t pitch every day.

  516. Good Morning All,

    I fell asleep when it was 4-1 in the 9th and my eyes opened during the 10th to see a 4-4 tie. I was so sickened I went to bed.

    The Braves were ONE OUT AWAY from the first complete game of the year, Bobby PANICKED (he should have listened to Stu) and took Huddy out who I think would have finished the job.

    Blob Wickman is awful on the road. I suppose it could be worse and be really like Reitsma and Kolbb and be awful everywhere, but I am sick of his shit. This is the fucking answer to our closer problems? Plus, Soriano now stinks, mainly because Bobby abused his arm, early in the year.

    Besides the fact that Wick isn’t as good as he used to be, the real problem has always been Bobby’s management of the bullpen. He gassed these relievers so much early in the season (and yes, we had Mark Redman starts and Davies starts so they had to be used at times), but we should think about a few 9-1 games where I saw Soriano come out of the pen. That’s where it got messed uo.

    If there ever was such a think as a bad win, this was it. Thankfully, I woke up to find out we WON, but still, how we didn’t finish a team off that’s already out of it, in the 9th, is sickening.

    The Braves are in deep trouble if we don’t get some more bullpen help and Bobby doesn’t stop abusing his relievers. It’s really Bobby’s biggest achilles heel. It’s why he even has to go to 8 relievers at times.

    Why again are we not giving Joey Devine a shot, by the way?

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