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Sorry, no video. How about a picture?
Use code “Journal” for a 5% discount.
When can we play a good team we can beat?
Where is the pic from Mac? and I know you’ve probably been over this, but what is your profession? Besides being a Braves guru?
The Marlins are making a big mistake by not calling up some kind no one has ever heard of to pitch this game. That’s a guaranteed victory against the Braves.
It’s just a picture I got off the Internet, and I’m a librarian.
From the last thread.
RE: Joey Devine got the save after allowing one of Ascanio’s baserunners to score to make it a save opportunity.
It either is or is not a save opportunity when a pitcher enters the game. Allowing a run to score doesn’t transform an nonsave opportunity into a save opportunity. If it were possible, saves would be an even more useless statistic.
What I didn’t realize is that you can count the guy on deck according to the official rules.
Here’s what happened according to the M-Braves site:
“West Tenn got on the board in the eighth as Jeff Frazier doubled and Rene Rivera doubled him home with the D-Jaxx first run. Jose Ascanio loaded the bases with Diamond Jaxx before he was removed from the game in favor of Joey Devine. Devine gave up a single to Charlton Jimerson that brought Rivera home with West Tenn’s second run. With the bases still loaded, Matt Tuiasosopo struck out to end the inning.”
So Devine entered the game with it 6-1 and the bases loaded gave up a single to make it 6-2 then got out of the inning. Then went easily through the 9th so that, “Joey Devine recorded his league-leading 14th save of the year.”
Its “offically” a save opportunity since the guy on deck could hit a grand slam to make up the five run difference so that Devine could earn a rare 5 run differential save.
Seems like a bad way to add to your save totals…
btw, anyone know who holds the ML record for blown saves in a season?
What are the odds that we lose the games the Smoltz and Hudson start, but win the one that Buddy starts? Also, I sometimes feel like Bobby does just pull names out of a hat when deciding who will play. There have been games this year where it seemed like we weren’t even trying to win based on the line-up we fielded.
In fairness to Bobby, you can’t manage in June like every game is the playoffs. He doesn’t want guys sitting around never playing. He has always been a manager that tries to get all of his players into games and, given the weakness of the bench and the injuries, that means fielding some strange lineups. And, probably, given all the day games the Braves have played recently and the double headers, he probably is trying to keep from wearing out the regulars.
I say we move Escobar to LA for Chad Billingsly. Billingsly has his control back and is being wasted in the pen. Betemit and Lil’ Ladouche are giving LA nothing at 3B. Assuming one of those guys learns to play, Escobar could slide to 2B when Kent is gone. Then,we kidnap Starla Cox and send a ransom note telling Bobby to play Harris at 3B until chipper gets back.
Afterall, the Dodgers cant be too sore about the Betemit trade. Wilson may be below the mendoza line, but Aybar’s just been snortin lines. This could be a chance for a do over.
We don’t know Aybar is snorting anything do we?
Did Todd Pratt land that marlin?
I understand the need to keep people from being wore out, but many times it seems like we either have all our starters or all our bench starting games. Maybe I’m just witnessing how awful our bench truly is this year.
I saw that too bandit, but that guy was way to thin
Speaking of lineups:
Johnson
Escobar
Francoeur
A. Jones
Diaz
Saltalamacchia
Woodward
Thorman
Davies
No McCann or Renteria today, shall be interesting.
It appears to be Renteria’s turn for a day off…
Johnson 2B
Escobar 3B
Francouer RF
Andruw CF
Diaz LF
Saltalamacchia C
Woodward SS
Thorman 1B
Davies P
In my mind it’s a strike against JS that we don’t have a platoon-mate for Thorman at the moment. Finding a righty masher who can stand at firstbase twice a week should not be a hard assignment. I know that Wilson didn’t work out, but let’s try again.
For what its worth, Dan Meyer pitched six innings, 1 ER, 3 hits, 11Ks with one walk yesterday for AAA Sacramento. After two years of shoulder troubles, it looks like he’s close to joining the A’s rotation.
Thos bench AB’s may come in handy down the road.
and the start before, he had 9 strike-outs in 5 innings.
Can he be the PTBNL from the Athletics, for Langy?
Donovan, I seem to recall Shawn Chacon holding the record for blown saves in a season a couple of years ago when he was closing for the Rockies.
Meyer is way too good to be the PTBNL later… I thought Halsey was a strech myself.
While the Mets have lost 3 of 4 & we’re still standing in the same place, I just have to believe that, without Chipper in the lineup & our recent starting pitching weirdness, this month is going to be an exercise in maintaining our place, not so much making up ground.
It’s not that I don’t think we can hang with the teams we play this month. Even with our current realities, we can compete. The Mets have a tough schedule, too, but I tend to believe both teams will muddle through with a tad-over.500 records. Just my gut, here, but that’s what I think.
Lineups:
FLA
Amezaga 3b
Uglla 2b
Ramirez SS
Willingham LF
Hermida RF
Boone 1b
Olivio C
Abercrombie CF
Olsen P
ATL
Johnson 2b
Escobar 3b
Francoeur RF
Jones CF
Diaz LF
Saltlamacchia C
Woodward SS
Thorman 1b
Davies P
I don’t know where they got their data from, but wikipedia claims this is the most blown saves in a single year.
14 (1976) Rollie Fingers
14 (1978) Bruce Sutter
14 (1983) Bob Stanley
14 (1984) Ron Davis
Oh, there is no way in hell Beane is giving up on Meyer now after spending the last two years rehabbing him. He’s the only thing they have left of what they got for Hudson.
I was just reminding the “we gave up absolutely nothing for Hudson” camp that I still think Meyer is going to be a pretty good major leaguer.
well, I can only hope on meyer, and it isn’t as if Hudson at 9 million a year has been worth it (although hopefully this year is much better for him).
With Woodward playing SS in this game, Davies might have just blown it. I don’t know that we’ll be able to score two runs today.
I just found where the leader for blown save sin 2006 was Burgos, with 12.
gonna need some offense out of 1-6 and 9 in the line-up today, as I do not feel very good about the 7 and 8 slots.
I agree that 2-0 looks pretty steep with this lineup.
Another head scratcher of a lineup from Bobby. Did I miss a Renteria injury or illness? I feel sorry for Thorman that he’s hitting so badly Bobby puts him behind Woodward.
Renty probably just needs a day off. Doubleheader yesterday and he’s getting old ya know.
Is anybody else having trouble with MLB.com?
No Gameday, no audio. It looks like the game hasn’t started.
Actually, the game has started. 2-0 Marlins after the Top of the 1st.
Bobby should have put Davies in the 7th spot.
you know I love Bobby Cox, but wouldn’t it make better sense to get Renty in today, and have Woodward at 1B, and rest Renty (Woodward at SS, and Thorman at 1B)the next time we face a RHP?
I’m having problems with MLB as well.
Go there for the mlb links guys
http://mlb.mlb.com/mediacenter/index.jsp
Did some digging & got the audio up. No luck with Gameday. Gotta go with the dreaded, inferior ESPN version.
mlbTV is working just fine for me today
Ububba,
It seems to be working for me…
c’mon kelly!
Infield today: Escobar, Woodward, Johnson, Thorman, Davies, Saltalmacchia.
Not for Richmond, for ATLANTA.
Hey Schuerholz–mind if we get a few major leaguers someday?
3-0
You suck, Kyle!
this is pathetic.
Mac,
Is there anymore room in the “Boone Hate Club”?
Ballgame. Drive home safely.
Francouer said last night the team was tired…yet he is in the line-up today. I think he giving Bobby a hint he needs a day off.
Jesus Christ…5-0!!!
I hate June, which rhymes with Boone, whom I also hate.
Someone remind me to recap this thing when it’s over, I can’t stand to monitor it anymore.
I think if Cormier pitches decent his next time out, Davies will be sent to Richmond and Carlyle will be called back up. Like Chris Rock once said “I ain’t saying it’s right, but I understand.” I think Davies clearly has the most talent of the three, but you never know what kind of performance you’re going to get with him and I don’t think that’s what the Braves need at this point, even if it is from the #5 spot in the rotation.
can we blame that one on snitker?
What’s that, the second straight game where Jeff is thrown out trying to stretch a base-hit? Can knock him I guess…we need runs.
What is wrong with Frenchy? Is he the dumbest baserunner in the history of the world?
Cormier and Davies…let’s face it are nothing special. I don’t want to see them against the Tigers and Twins. At least Carlye is left-handed.
This is really embarassing. No Cabrera in the line-up, really nothing to worry and we are trailing 5-0.
That was just plain dumb. Somebody needs to take him aside and light him up in the dugout.
Tony, unless my eyes are really deceiving me, Carlyle is most certainly not left handed.
Question: is Francouer the worst baserunner the Braves have had in several years? Consider: he has decent speed, so it’s not like we expect him to clog things up on the basepaths (like McCann). But his poor decisions and his atrocious caught stealing rate . . . and lack of as many doubles and triples as we might expect based solely on his power and raw speed. Who has been worse?
Andruw Jones…pitiful
I’m sorry. There are situations when you have to think on a ballfield.
Getting tossed at 3B with 2 outs yesterday & getting tossed at 2B down 5 runs is just plain stupid. It’s not a matter of, “I think I can make it.” In those spots, you don’t even try.
New poll.
We are in a rough stretch right now, but to think we are going to be 6 over .500 and getting nothing this season from the Jones boys (injury to one and .220 average to the other) makes me think maybe we will be alright if we get them back to their normal performances (i.e. this is Chipper annual big injury, and AJ gets another 40 points to his average and gets some more power).
Schuerholz isn’t an option on the poll??
Okay, I added him.
Damn, I already voted. My opinion: Bobby’s going to play the guys he has. His eternal optimism blinds him to certain realities (Orr/Woodward/Thorman are bad). So JS has to physically remove them from the team (see Redman/Wilson) in order to keep Bobby from playing them.
And it’s working well. We’ve won 4 more games (3 after today) than the $30-million-dollar Marlins.
Yea Carlye is a righty…my bad. I said this last year…Giles, Francouer and Jones are not the brightest bulbs out there. Without Renty in the line-up the Braves….nvermind I’m tired.
I wonder if Thorman realizes how much of an ass he looks as he throws his bat, helmet, gloves, etc. and curses a hundred times after EVERY out. Not just the big ones but EVERY single out. On top of that Salty rips a single to center field before him. Seriously, is there any doubt who our 1B should be? I mean even if Salty sucks at D he’s still better then Thorman overall.
Did Orr get picked off at first or was he thrown out attempting to steal second?
I would like the option to continue blaming Time Warner.
Just joining the gsme–this is truly pathetic and I am sorry to say not altogether suprising. Between the back end of the rotation and our bats this was always going to be a challenge. Playing in Atlanta seems to make it worse….
nevermind
Skip is giving me a heart attack this inning.
Frenchy!!!
Sings of life…
Pete Orr: The Catalyst
A comeback?
Or, signs of life…
Either one.
It just sucks we are basically trying to win with 6 guys, thorman woodward and pitcher are like automatic outs.
okay AJ, lets show the Angels, Red Sox or White Sox you will be worth the 18 million a year they will throw at you.
You might as well add Andruw to that automatic out list.
Frankly, I think we have to start readjusting our expectations for this team, especially with Chipper out and Andruw struggling. This rotation is pretty unstable, not knowing what you will get, not just game to game but almost from inning to inning from Davies. The offense has no ability to come back from significant deficits. This team falls behind, it’s pretty much over. They are looking more and more like a .500 team, which they have been for most of the season.
Did I already say Andruw is pitiful??
When your starting pitcher, catcher, first baseman, SS, and 3rd baseman should all realistically be in AAA, you don’t have much of a chance. Add to that your starting CF batting .220 and looking very bored this season, plus a revolving door behind Smoltz/Hudson, and this season, barring major changes, is shaping up much like last year.
Unknown 1:38
Not really. Davies has had a better season at the plate than Thorman or Woodward.
In fairness, they did bring in THE Justin Miller, so we really had no chance.
He’s no Rick Vanden Hurk.
Francouer has become a great singles/double hitter in the clutch.
I’m with Marc, I’m not giving up hope by any means like I did last year in June, but I think too many Braves fans have the mentality of “oh well, if we don’t catch the Mets, we’ll still get the Wild Card.”
The more and more that I see, the Wild Card is going to come from the West. I see the Dodgers or Padres having either the money or the trading assets to acquire a piece at the deadline. Once the DBacks young hitters start coming around more (which they have been this month) combined with their pitching, I don’t think they’re necessarily going to go away either.
Basically, I see the Mets, Dodgers, and Padres getting better the rest of the way out, with the DBacks maintaining their pace more or less. I haven’t seen much to think the Braves are either getting better (loss of Gonzalez, etc.) or going to get better (via trades).
Going into today, the Braves were 17-17 since May 1 and 26-25 since April 11 (likely to be 26-26). Injuries or not, this looks like a pretty mediocre team; playing in the NL gives them a shot but it’s hard to get excited especially since Chipper will probably be out at least a couple more weeks. This could be a long month.
Willie Harris has been amazing….
Ugh. Weak, Kelly.
No matter the Marlins record in any particular year, the Braves can make them look like World Series contenders.
I’d vote in the poll above, but I can’t figure out how to stuff the ballot and vote for all of them multiple times.
Kelly and Matt are too streaky…there I said it. If Andruw is batting .260 the Braves probably have a 3 to 4 game lead. He is by far the biggest reason for Atlanta’s situation.
The Marlins are taking Salty to school….
How did Hanley Ramirez “single on a pop up to first baseman Scott Thorman”?
Andrew’s been a big disappointment, but I doubt the Braves would have a 3 or 4 game lead if he is batting .260.
He has 211 at bats; hitting .260 would give him 55 (54.86 rounded up) hits. He actually has 47 hits or 8 below what he’d have if he were hitting .260. I doubt 8 hits would move the Braves from 3.5 games behind to 3 games ahead.
Dammit Frank you know what I am trying to say…quit being so technical.
Thorman lost an easy catch popup in the sun. It landed about 6 inches inside the foul line.
Good job, Kali!
I know this is obvious, but I really feel like I’m watching a Triple A baseball game right now.
Good for Thorman – He caught that one!
baby wick looks like he needs a hug
Thorman has again surpassed Andruw in the fight for batting average supremacy.
I’m starting to feel shades of 2006 here.
This is getting depressing.
To qualify my comments, I think the Braves are part of a pack of several teams in the NL that could contend for the Wild Card but there is no reason to think the Braves are superior to those teams. As jj3bagger said, the NL West teams are pretty good, but like all the NL teams are flawed as well. (I went to the Nats-Padres game on Saturday and was astonished that a team with such pathetic hitting stats could be playing so well.) None of these teams are that good. The point is the Braves are a middle of the pack team but they have less ability to really improve than do the Dodgers or Diamondbacks. And the Mets will get Pedro back. It’s just hard for me to see the Braves putting on a big second half like they used to unless Chipper (and McCann)get healthy, Andruw starts hitting, and the back end of the rotation starts showing some consistency. It’s possible, but those are a lot of ifs. Frankly, it’s hard to get used to being middle of the pack after years of excellence.
JS,
send help soon!
your humble smuflings,
the braves
Why isn’t simpson getting on Salty like he has on McCann about blocking pitches? “That will go as a wild pitch, but McCann should have blocked it”. He forgot to finish the rest of that sentence.
I seriously think he has a man crush on Salty, similar to what Rathburn had on McCann last year. What a crappy game! Just trying to find something to bitch about.
It is, Marc. I understand JS’s financial constraints, but it isn’t like we’re getting beaten by the Mets and Yankees. He’s made some very questionable personnel decisions, and continues watch this once-proud franchise be passed by better-organized teams such as the Marlins, Diamondbacks, Brewers, etc.
yuck, yuck, yuck
Paronto 7.79 ERA.
Nice at-bat by Diaz.
Time to vote Paronto off the island; he just doesn’t seem right (even by his standards) since his injury.
woody, i’ll give a nickel if if get this runner home
I think the financial constraints are very significant and there has been a lot of bad luck. The payroll was structured around the assumption that the budget would be $100 million and then it was cut to $80. You can’t blame JS for that unless you can show he should have known the cut was coming (maybe not that unreasonable considering the way attendence was declining in the late 90s/2000s).
But I think you have to look at the farm system’s inability to produce pitching. They have obviously produced some good–not great– position players but the pitching just has not been there. I don’t know whose fault that is–maybe it’s just bad luck.
Woodward out on 3 pitches. DEAD WEIGHT, SCHUERHOLZ.
why the hell are orr and woody still on this team? it’s rediculous, time to cut bait.
c’mon renty!
Also, you have to remember that the Marlins, Diamondbacks, Mets, Brewers etc, all sank to the bottom before they recovered. They basically were able to collect good young players by trading off veterans and losing 100 games–and in the case of the Brewers, the process has taken 25 years.
Paronto needs to go, there’s really not much room for debate there. I think part of the reason why they brought Boyer up was to see if he could fill Paronto’s shoes so they can turn him loose when they bring back up Carlyle or when Chipper comes off the DL.
True enough. Maybe it’s time for that with this group. Rebuild around MCCann, Frency, James, Escobar, get some good young guys like the Marlins/Brewers, lose a few bad veteran contracts (Andruw/Hampton) and come back in 2008.
You kiddin’ me? Are they really gonna blow bases loaded, no one out?
disgruntledfan, as long as we have Smoltz and Chipper on this team management will never think to rebuild like that.
AAR, not that it really matters, but the bases weren’t loaded until there was already one out. That was thanks to Woody and his 3-pitch K.
Yay, only three more runs to tie it! /roll eyes
You’re probably right. And that’s unfortunate, b/c we haven’t been to a World Series since 1999. The Mets, Marlins, Diamondbacks, Cardinals, etc have all been since the last time we have. Obviously something isn’t working. I guess I’m one of those weird fans who isn’t content with winning the East and “hanging with the Mets”.
What happened to the tank? Last year he was lights out.
hmm, getting interesting. On top of that the only Lefty in their bullpen is gone.
Good point, KLB. If I’m going to bitch about this team, I might as well be accurate.
But in the meantime, great job, Kelly!
yes!
OMG frenchy you can do it!
If there was ever time for a Frenchy bomb…
1st eff’n pitch…thanks jackass
Escobar has been impressive so far. Looks like a keeper and a replacement for our crippled old man.
Damn, why couldn’t you save one of those two hits for when bases our loaded frenchy??
I guess the idea of a patient AB was out of the question there.
Francoeur, bases loaded, down 3, first pitch out. PLEASE TAKE A GAME OFF.
Wow beedee…. a little harsh.
Nuts.
Balls.
Aargh.
Yeah cause he only has a single and a double in this game already. He needs to take off a game. Give me a break.
Is it me or, as of lately, jeffrey has been good in blowup games but sucks when we’re rallying or in a close game? So much about his 2 out rbis
You’re right. No way he’s tired, or pressing. I love watching him kill rallies. The Marlins make 18 pitching changes knowing we’re mounting a comeback, and he bails them out in one pitch. At least Woodward took 3.
@35
not really
lol you “what have you done for me lately” people crack me up.
I actually don’t think they need to rebuild to that extreme. They obviously aren’t bereft of talent. But the key players are either getting old (Smoltz), injury prone (Chipper) or too expensive (likely Andruw). And to some extent, the Braves are suffering from the fact that teams still think it is meaningful to beat the Atlanta Braves, even if this isn’t the same Atlanta Braves. No one is going to take the Braves lightly. IMO, they have a nice core to build around but they simply have to get some pitching and they have to find another big bat.
It’s not all about ‘what he’s done lately’. Granted, he’s had his clutch moments. And he’s certainly not the only problem today. But there is no way you can get out on one pitch in that situation. Doesn’t matter if you’re Francoeur or Barry Bonds. It’s just stupid, dumb, baseball.
landogarner,
there are times when it would be much more advantageous to not slap at the first pitch and hit into an easy out.
bases loaded, 2 outs in the 8th down by 3 is probably one of those times.
Marc, I have to disagree with your point that the Mets, DBacks, and Brewers improved by “collecting good young players by trading off veterans.” The Marlins improved this way by trading Delgado, etc, but the Mets (Wright, Reyes, Pelfrey, etc), DBacks (Drew, CoJack, Montero, Quentin, etc.), and Brewers (Hardy, Fielder, Weeks, etc.) improved by having good positional player drafts and signing international talent.
Now I’m not saying the Braves haven’t been trying to do that, but I do agree with you as far as developing starting pitching.
When you look at it though, how often are you going to be able to develop Smoltzs and Glavines ??? The problem of not being able to develop young starting pitching is a problem that virtually all other teams in baseball have.
Even when you look at Smoltz, Glavine and Maddux, they were allowed to pitch a few seasons at the big league level and take their lumps. With the position that the Braves are in of trying to win now, they can’t afford to take their lumps with inconsistant guys like Kyle Davies, which in my opinion is a shame. It’s hard to develop young pitching at the big league level when there is pressure to win at the big league level every time out. I don’t see alot of young starting pitchers that have stepped right in on winning teams and contributed greatly. I know there are guys like Justin Verlander that have, but I think that’s more of the exception, than the rule.
Andruw .220
Thorman .229
Woodward .227
Thanks, Andruw.
If he hits it out you wouldn’t say a thing about swinging at the first pitch. And given the situation his best chance to get a good pitch to swing at was the first pitch.
If my calculations are right, we’ve had 21 LOB today.
Lowlights: KJ with 4, Frenchy with 4, Diaz 3, Woodward 3, Renty 3.
landogarner,
again i would like to say frnchy has taken a serious step forward this year, but it would be nice to see him be a little more aware at times like last at bat. that’s all i’m getting at. it’s really frustrating to see a guy so talented not use his head.
beedee,
Yes I would have liked to see him work the count there but I can also understand him going for it on the first pitch in that situation. Unfortunately it didn’t result in a hit.
so what exactly does chris woodward bring to this team?
Atlanta finished with 23 LOB, the Marlins 19. That’s hard to do, actually.
more lame at bats
In my opinion, when a team is obviously on the ropes and is changing pitchers every other batter, and there’s a good chance the entire pen is tired from 4 games in 3 days, and you’ve loaded the bases so they’re going to be even tighter, it’s always a bad idea to not take at least a PITCH. Lots of ways to score there by being patient–walk, HBP, error, wild pitch, balk. Only one way to score by being aggressive. Just my (and others’) opinion.
Kidding aside, Davies does have a higher OPS than Thorman, Orr, Prado, and Woodward.
Then there’s his ERA … (sigh)
In all honesty, this team got screwed big time on the schedule. 5 out of six games last week during day then you have to play 4 games in three days, two of which are day games. Then you have a four game series with the cubs and no off days…
It is a bit of second guessing. If the pitch was right down the middle, why not swing? On the other hand, Ted Williams always advocated taking the first pitch and he seemed to know something about hitting. It’s hard to win when you score 12 runs in four games–although the Braves used to do that regularly in the old days, that clearly isn’t going to work with the current pitching staff.