from the previous thread, thanks for the faux Morgan/Miller call on Bobby’s ejection…that was classically funny.
Re: Andruw injury
I didn’t want to “get in trouble” with the Andruw love-fest crowd, but I also feel strongly he & Boras are milking a fake injury to find any way possible to get Jones that extra $ this winter.
Doesn’t matter, there’s still a few suckers, er, teams that will overpay him…the Rangers, Cubs and Nats are the 3 that come to mind. Since the Yankees are still weighed down from overspending on Johnny Damon, I don’t see Cashman going after Jones.
JDMaker1
on August 15, 2007 at 2:37 pm
Alex R.: I’m not part of the “Andruw love-fest crowd,” but I don’t think he is faking an injury. I don’t think Andruw is that selfish.
jj3bagger
on August 15, 2007 at 2:39 pm
From Jim Callis’ chat for those of you keeping your eye on the Braves most recent draft:
Andrew (Athens, GA): Jim, will Josh Fields be closing the the Bulldogs next year or has Atlanta agreed to his demands?
SportsNation Jim Callis: I think he’ll be back at my alma mater.
Coop
on August 15, 2007 at 2:50 pm
I am an unashamed Andruw fan. I’m not certain he’ll command much more on his next contract than he’s getting now, because he really has stunk it up offensively.
If we can sign him for six to eight years at $15M per or less, I hope he finishes his career as a Brave. The boy still plays a very good centerfield.
Marc Schneider
on August 15, 2007 at 2:50 pm
Alex,
I don’t know what “Andruw love-fest crowd” you are referring to, but, in fairness, you have to evaluate his body of work over several years, not just this year. It’s not unreasonable that Andruw would return to his old form next year, ie, .26–.265 with 40-45 home runs and playing great defense. I’m certainly not advocating that Andruw is a great player–I’ve always thought he was overrated and would rather sign Teixera–but you are sort of exhibiting Andruw hatred for a guy that, for all his flaws, plays his ass off and has played through a lot of injuries. Whether or not he is using his elbow as an excuse, it’s pretty clear that the years of diving for balls have taken their toll on his body. I think Andruw deserves a little more respect than to be accused of faking an injury.
I would also disagree with Andruw playing as hard as I see Chipper, Francouer, McCann, Smoltz and several other of our stars play–guys I always see hustling. You do remember Bobby once yanked ‘Druw out of a game for not hustling?
All kidding aside, Boras isn’t quite the anti-christ. I know many people to many things to get money, but I just don’t think faking an injury while your team is in the middle of a penant race is one of those things. Maybe I am naive, but AJ is a professional athlete and as such uber competitive. Notwithstanding Boras’ alleged immorality.
Have you ever actually SEEN Boras and the anti Christ at the same time? So you can’t say that with complete certainty….:-)
Frank
on August 15, 2007 at 3:07 pm
I think Jones is a great defensive player. Offensively, I think this year is more of an outlier than the true Jones. (An off the cuff guess: he’s around 720 ops now; I think he’ll be about 100 points better next year.)
So I’m no Andruw hater, but I think signing him for 6-8 years at $15m per year is way too risky.
Justin Parker
on August 15, 2007 at 3:08 pm
I don’t know that I would call it faking an injury, but it might be a case of making an injury seem like much more than it is. That’s still a harsh thing to say about someone.
JDMaker1
on August 15, 2007 at 3:09 pm
Alex, good point. Come to think of that I’ve never seen Osama and Boras at the same time either. Maybe he is Vick’s tie to Iran and Al Qaeda.
Stu
on August 15, 2007 at 3:10 pm
JDMaker1,
I think we have to assume that’s the case until someone offers conclusive proof to the contrary.
Ron
on August 15, 2007 at 3:15 pm
He’s having an off year whether due to injury or not. It happens. There’s every reason to think he’ll hit more like the Andruw of ’05-’06 next year. Somebody will pay him at or close to what Boras wants. It won’t be the Braves.
Wryn
on August 15, 2007 at 3:20 pm
For our friends on the Gulf Coast, might want to think about taking a vacation next weekend.
Even though I’m his country mate, I can still look at Andruw’s play objectively and yes, he’s been beyond awful this year.
Either way, tonight the Tigers will give the start to another kid from Curacao, the first Curacao pitcher in MLB history…so hopefully the Indians won’t kill him out there…
I myself am looking forward to the inexpensive signing of Coco Crisp or Randy Winn to fill the center field void and saving the big bucks for Teixeira.
Marc Schneider
on August 15, 2007 at 3:24 pm
That was what, 8 or 9 years ago that Bobby yanked him. I think the statute of limitations on that offense has run off. He certainly doesn’t jake it in the outfield; if you don’t run out a ground ball, everyone sees it but it would be easy to ease off a little on a ball in the gap, not dive, etc., no one would know the difference. This is certainly nothing against Francoeur, but he makes a big show of hustling. Pete Rose did the same thing. That doesn’t necessarily mean he is trying harder than Andruw. And, slow guys like McCann always look like they are hustling because they have to run so hard to make it to the next base. Plus, if you start going there, you have to mention Henry Aaron, who never LOOKED like he was playing as hard as Willie Mays. That was just his style. It’s amazing to me that I’m defending Andruw because I’m not that much of a fan, but fair is fair.
It’s fair to argue–which I do–that Andruw is an extremely undisciplined hitter who has wasted a lot of his gifts over the years and that he is not worth what the Braves would have to pay to keep him. But, to say he is faking an injury or doesn’t hustle is, to me, beyond the pale. And I don’t think anyone was saying that in 2005. I understand that people don’t like it when he seems to smile after striking out; it’s much more satisfying to see a guy curse or smash his helmet. But’s that a matter of style, not substance.
Coop
on August 15, 2007 at 3:26 pm
Next year and for at least a few more years, Andruw will be a better centerfielder — not hitter — than Frenchy, Willie, B.Jones, or the other options touted here recently.
The Braves success in the 1990’s was built on pitching and defense. To win, you’ve got to catch the ball, and very few outfielders do it as well as Andruw.
The kid’s 30. He’s still got several productive years ahead of him. I agree he needs to be more coachable offensively, but he plays great defense almost every day. I’d rather have him than Beltran or Hunter or Cameron, but I’d also like to have Peavy, Oswalt, Beckett and Zambrano.
If I had to choose, which I don’t, between Andruw and Zambrano, I’d take Zambrano or any other pitcher of his ilk. I just think it’s more likely that we could re-sign Andruw than get one of the aforementioned stud pitchers.
Obviously, I like Andruw, even as bad as he is; and I trust JS to give Bobby tools to compete. Somebody will play centerfield. If Jones goes, I’ll miss him; but I’ll still be a Braves fan.
JDMaker1
on August 15, 2007 at 3:40 pm
What about Aaron Rowand for center next year? Too much of a stretch?
csg
on August 15, 2007 at 3:41 pm
with our budget would you rather have Andruw at 5/15 per or Tex at 7/22-23 per. Both will get that if not more on the open market. Or not have either and focus on stud pitchers and hope we get cheaper replacements?
csg
on August 15, 2007 at 3:43 pm
Rowand is having a career year, but he also gives himself some freak injuries. He’s a very good defensive guy, but he might be playing himself into some big bucks also
Jeff M.
on August 15, 2007 at 3:45 pm
I’m certainly not going to defend Andruw’s offense (or offensive) play this summer. But, it’s pretty clear that this year is the proverbial outlier, at least offensively. He’s still one of the best defensively, and that’s where his value will have to be for the rest of the year. And Bobby ought to hit him 8th at this point, since virtually every starter (note the term, cause as bad as he is, I’d rather him than Woodward or Thorman) is better this year.
And for those that like justice, know that it is going to cost him $$ (which is part of the system), just as it would have cost teams had he been hitting this year, with say a .950 ops at this point. That said, I don’t think that I could accuse him of faking it.
Marc Schneider
on August 15, 2007 at 3:47 pm
If it was a choice of Andruw or Tex as opposed to Santana, I would obviously take Santana. Maybe even Zambrano although his temperament makes that more problematic. Maybe even a Harang if he was available and certainly a Peavey. Other than that, I would choose Tex because he is and will be a much better hitter than Andruw and I think it would be easier to replace Andruw’s defense. (I’m not saying it would be just as good.)
It’s probably more dangerous to give big contracts, especially for a lot of years, to pitchers. You would do it for Santana, but teams generally get burned with long pitcher contracts, unless the pitcher is very young.
Cliff
on August 15, 2007 at 3:47 pm
Andruw and Boras will take arbitration and try again the next year (just like Maddux). IF Andruw comes back to form, he will have left too much on the table.
Of course, that will mess with JS’s work big time (like it did with Maddux / Millwood / Estrada). However, I bet he has a good plant for that now.
Marc Schneider
on August 15, 2007 at 4:06 pm
It wouldn’t be the worst thing if Andruw accepted arbitration; the Braves would get a year at possibly below-market rates. But I would be surprised if JS really tries to sign Andruw long-term because he most likely has already seen Andruw’s peak (2005). It’s unlikely that, even if this year is a fluke, that Andruw is going to get better at this point in his career. So, assuming it’s one or the other, Tex is a better hitter at a position that the Braves have been unable to adequately fill for years. And I think it’s easier to replace Andruw’s defense, especially considering that it is likely to decline as he gets older. Of course, if they can’t get Tex to do an extension the Braves are sort of screwed.
Mr Swings @ Everything
on August 15, 2007 at 4:39 pm
How in the hell does one hustle while pitching?! Does that even make sense? I see Chipper taking it easy on the way to 1B quite a bit.
How hard is it to log a new alias after getting banned? There are a few things that need to be said that would probably get me banned.
Maverick
on August 15, 2007 at 4:42 pm
Fantasy Football LEague care to join???
League ID#:466115
Password:bravos
Jonathan
on August 15, 2007 at 4:46 pm
I think there’s good chance that Andruw accepts arbitration this year, too. Not that it’s a slam dunk, but someone coming off a year like he is having stands to gain a lot by taking a “mulligan” year by accepting arbitration (pardon the mixed terms)
Robert
on August 15, 2007 at 4:46 pm
That was what, 8 or 9 years ago that Bobby yanked him. I think the statute of limitations on that offense has run off.
You would think so, but not with Alex. Andruw has been very durable in his career as a quick check of the ‘Games’ column in his stat line will prove. Over the years he has no doubt played through any number of injuries but still managed to put up one Andruw-like year after the next. This season he finally runs up against an injury he can’t really play through, and a (probably small) portion of his team’s “fans” accuse him of faking it. Obviously ridiculous.
Hopefully his next fan base his a little more appreciative.
Jonathan
on August 15, 2007 at 4:47 pm
Oh yeah, I have a fantasy football league too, that has a few spots open.
League ID: 184401
PW: braves
Robert
on August 15, 2007 at 4:48 pm
I think there’s good chance that Andruw accepts arbitration this year, too.
Personally I would be surprised if we offer arbitration. I imagine JS has some pretty carefully laid plans for the offseason and doesn’t want them derailed by a sudden Maddux-like arbitration surprise.
csg
on August 15, 2007 at 4:51 pm
it is quite humorous that our 8th hitter is batting .330+ and Andruw is batting 7th at .212
csg
on August 15, 2007 at 4:52 pm
do we lose the draft picks if we dont offer arb?
Robert
on August 15, 2007 at 4:53 pm
How hard is it to log a new alias after getting banned? There are a few things that need to be said that would probably get me banned.
I imagine Mac would ban your IP address, so it would probably be a bit of a pain. Just let it go, he’ll be gone in a few months and hopefully they can find a new, more worthy target.
csg
on August 15, 2007 at 4:54 pm
anyone know that Ortiz has only given up 2ER in his last 14IP. has he decided to start trying to pitch well again?
Robert
on August 15, 2007 at 4:56 pm
do we lose the draft picks if we dont offer arb?
We would not get the draft picks without offering arb. So that’s the trade off. Is the risk of him accepting and screwing your budget great enough that you are willing to not get the draft picks. JS has played this on a case by case basis in the past, usually offering arb but in some cases where he really couldn’t afford for the guy to accept, he didn’t offer.
Justin Parker
on August 15, 2007 at 5:01 pm
I don’t think he will accept, he is still the best CF on the market outside of Ichiro, on reputation alone. I don’t think JS has anything to worry about in offering arb.
On a different note, for those who are advertising your football leagues, you might want to mention which site you are at, ESPN, Yahoo, CBS. Just a thought.
Robert
on August 15, 2007 at 5:02 pm
has he decided to start trying to pitch well again?
Not sure where you got that stat but he’s only pitched once since June 4th. A so-so 5 IP, 2 ER outing against those mighty Pirates.
I will use this opportunity to point out that Andruw is 10-21 career against Russ.
Maverick
on August 15, 2007 at 5:04 pm
Ohh yeah thanks Justin.the one i said was Yahoo. I somehow like yahoo better than Espn although Espn has a better user interface and update the stats without having to purchase those extra things.
Anyone know if CBS one is any good??
Wryn
on August 15, 2007 at 5:06 pm
I just joined the facebook group.
Andruw Jones’ Weight > Andruw Jones’ Batting Average
Maverick
on August 15, 2007 at 5:07 pm
We need those Mighty pirates 2nite to beat the mets i doubt it though Maine Vs Morris?? whats the chances its too bad that whenever we decide to win the Mets and Phillies decide to do the same…well all we can do is try to do our part.
bfan
on August 15, 2007 at 5:21 pm
We would really be crazy not to offer AJ arbitration. At worst, if he accepts the arbitration, you get him again in his “contract year” (not that it worked so great this year, but in theory…); you get to compare this awful year in setting the salary; and the one year bridge with AJ in CF in 2008 gets you closer to Schaeffer or Brandon Jones as a replacement.
Robert
on August 15, 2007 at 5:34 pm
We would really be crazy not to offer AJ arbitration.
You are probably right. After the Maddux/Millwood for Estrada fiasco JS starting being really conservative with offering arbitration – for example he didn’t offer Sheffield. If the increase in payroll is really real, he may not have to play things so carefully.
Jeff K
on August 15, 2007 at 5:36 pm
Sorry for a little distraction … this from Matt Diaz about last night’s game:
“Wickman’s as solid a closer as it comes,” Diaz said. “We thought we had it wrapped up, but when they tied it up and he shut them down with the bases loaded, that was huge. Him getting us back in the dugout tied was huge. He girded up his loins and pitched unbelievably there.”
Pretty funny, but, the last thing I want to think about is Bob Wickman’s loins.
Robert
on August 15, 2007 at 5:36 pm
Lineups:
Davis CF
Vizquel SS
Winn RF
Bonds LF
Klesko 1B
Durham 2B
Feliz 3B
Rodriguez C
Harris LF
Johnson 2B
Chip 3B
Tex 1B
McCann C
Francoeur RF
Andruw CF
Yutility SS
Pretty standard stuff.
Robert
on August 15, 2007 at 6:20 pm
Five in the first for the Mets. Better take care of business tonight.
csg
on August 15, 2007 at 6:30 pm
I really hate the Mets and why did the Pirates trade for Morris? Please explain that one
Yep, Andruw is batting a cool .476 against Ortiz, but with no HR’s
Kyle B.
on August 15, 2007 at 6:34 pm
I saw where Duke is going to miss the rest of the season as well. It would suck to be a Pirates fan. They have such a nice ballpark too. One in which I saw Scott Thorman hit two home runs in one game earlier this year…it seems like another season.
Mr Swings @ Everything
on August 15, 2007 at 6:34 pm
oooooooohhhhhhhhh. I didn’t know that Angel Hernandez was working this series? He’s at 1B tonight.
A.) Does Bobby got ejected twice in two games
B.) Does that mean Hernandez will be behind the plate tomorrow?
csg
on August 15, 2007 at 6:35 pm
how about this scenario, bases loaded two outs and the pitcher Redding, gives the Nats a two run double. 2-0 Nats
Kyle B.
on August 15, 2007 at 6:35 pm
#55 – I thought they rotated around the bases, so I have no idea what’s going on unless the guy who was behind the plate last night is sick tonight or something.
Also Smoltz saved 45 games, which helped — not a lot of blown leads.
Mr Swings @ Everything
on August 15, 2007 at 7:20 pm
Did Harris go see Diaz’ optometrist? Have any other players ever had this career path? Is this the real Willie Harris?
Kyle B.
on August 15, 2007 at 7:21 pm
With numbers like that, how can Simpson actually analyze hitting on national television.
JoeyT
on August 15, 2007 at 7:21 pm
Didn’t every starter in that 2003 lineup have an above OPS+ over 100? That was a crazy good lineup.
Jeremy
on August 15, 2007 at 7:22 pm
Joe mentioned the University of Oklahoma.
DRINK!
csg
on August 15, 2007 at 7:22 pm
huddy just got hit in the leg again
csg
on August 15, 2007 at 7:23 pm
he’s good though
JoeyT
on August 15, 2007 at 7:23 pm
Correction on 2003:
B-Ref says only Fick was below 100 OPS+, but if you replace Fick with Julio, everyone was over 100.
david15
on August 15, 2007 at 7:23 pm
Joe should mention the University of Oklahoma even more than he already does.
Robert
on August 15, 2007 at 7:24 pm
McLouth goes deep. 5-3 Mets.
csg
on August 15, 2007 at 7:25 pm
Angel called a balk, here comes Bobby
csg
on August 15, 2007 at 7:25 pm
wow he stays
csg
on August 15, 2007 at 7:26 pm
add one more to the ejectometer, he’s gone
RobBroad4th
on August 15, 2007 at 7:26 pm
Awesome.
JoeyT
on August 15, 2007 at 7:26 pm
Cox’s ejections have attained kitch value.
Dan
on August 15, 2007 at 7:26 pm
Bobby! Bobby!
Mr Swings @ Everything
on August 15, 2007 at 7:26 pm
Isn’t it great that the best thing our manager does is get thrown out of games? Give’em hell Bobby!
Jeremy
on August 15, 2007 at 7:26 pm
He gone.
Kyle B.
on August 15, 2007 at 7:26 pm
The 2003 team was the most fun to watch in recent memory. Javy and Shef were bananas that year.
RobBroad4th
on August 15, 2007 at 7:27 pm
I caught a couple “bullsh–s” and “yeahs.” Anyone get anything else? 🙂
Kyle B.
on August 15, 2007 at 7:27 pm
#55 – Nostradamus.
Alex R.
on August 15, 2007 at 7:28 pm
At least our fans are recognizing Bobby’s arguing “greatness” with those cheers.
Alex R.
on August 15, 2007 at 7:28 pm
Bobby is Mr. Miyagi to Phillip Wellman’s Daniel LaRusso.
csg
on August 15, 2007 at 7:28 pm
alot, I mean alot of BS’s in there
great catch by Frenchy
Kyle B.
on August 15, 2007 at 7:28 pm
And Hernandez is Cobra-Kai Dojo?
csg
on August 15, 2007 at 7:32 pm
sonic commercials are one of a kind..
loved the “gotta go strong to the hole or dont go at all” and “sieze the burrito”
Mr Swings @ Everything
on August 15, 2007 at 7:33 pm
I asked last night and got no response, who becomes the acting manager when Cox is out? Is it Cadahia or McDowell? In the past it went to the bench coach Corrales but it seemed like McDowell was making the pitching changes? Do they split duties or something? I need information!
csg
on August 15, 2007 at 7:34 pm
Mr Swings, I bet Bobby is sitting on the steps
Jeremy
on August 15, 2007 at 7:35 pm
McDowell probably makes the pitching change. Bobby is still managing. . . he’s just sitting on a chair down the tunnel.
Adam M
on August 15, 2007 at 7:35 pm
Time for a big inning
RobBroad4th
on August 15, 2007 at 7:35 pm
Yeah, Swings. My understanding is that Bobby still technically manages from the clubhouse and that ejections are more of a technicality. However, I believe the pitching coach is supposed to take over when the manager is kicked out.
csg
on August 15, 2007 at 7:36 pm
61 pitches, no outs in the 3rd
RobBroad4th
on August 15, 2007 at 7:36 pm
I think we just found a team with a bullpen more tired than ours.
Jeremy
on August 15, 2007 at 7:37 pm
Nice patience, McCann. Good grief.
Mr Swings @ Everything
on August 15, 2007 at 7:38 pm
I think it would be great if they made the manager go sit with some of the opposing team’s fans after he gets thrown out like they do in English soccer.
Adam M
on August 15, 2007 at 7:39 pm
Or not.
RobBroad4th
on August 15, 2007 at 7:39 pm
That was ugly.
Mailman93635
on August 15, 2007 at 7:40 pm
Do any of you guys get the MLB extra innings package ? I live out here in California and I am a big Braves fan. They’re blacking out the game because they’re playing the worthless Giants. I thought since the Braves are the home team that they could not black out the game. I only have these black out problems when they play the Giants or the A’s in interleague. It does not matter if the Braves are home or away. What a bunch of BS. Anyone else have problems like these in your area ? Thanks.
Kyle B.
on August 15, 2007 at 7:43 pm
Mailmain, on the MLB.TV website, there is a place where you can type in your ZIP and it will tell you what teams will be blacked out. Unfortunately, home and away doesn’t matter.
Even on TBS, if the Braves play the Pirates, Reds, or Cleveland, it’s blackout out for me in Ohio.
Kyle B.
on August 15, 2007 at 7:43 pm
The extra innings blackout restriction works the same way, I’m sure.
csg
on August 15, 2007 at 7:43 pm
Wash up 4-1
csg
on August 15, 2007 at 7:43 pm
Klesko has been tossed
Kyle B.
on August 15, 2007 at 7:44 pm
And he hates life.
csg
on August 15, 2007 at 7:45 pm
Barry just basically carried Klesko off the field
Robert
on August 15, 2007 at 7:46 pm
Well, the Pirates ran up Maine’s pitchcount and he’s out of there after five. But they are still down 5-3. Mota’s in.
Remy
on August 15, 2007 at 7:46 pm
I’m watching the Giants broadcast, and the ump from last night’s game, Barrett, just kept walking toward Klesko, egging him on.
Dan (but not that Dan)
on August 15, 2007 at 7:47 pm
Gameday showing the count to Durham at 5-1.
csg
on August 15, 2007 at 7:49 pm
Escobar has a hose
Jeremy
on August 15, 2007 at 7:49 pm
Yeah, all the Diamondbacks games are blacked out for me on Extra Innings, and I don’t even live in Arizona.
csg
on August 15, 2007 at 7:50 pm
Andruw be useful here
csg
on August 15, 2007 at 7:50 pm
Andruw actually hit one out of the infield, its amazing
csg
on August 15, 2007 at 7:52 pm
Joe is a moron, it never stops
The trivia question is: What hall of fame player used a different bat in all of his 2,351 hits
Joe’s answer: maybe its a pitcher that gave up that many hits
csg,
you may want to find another descriptor…the “hose” is easily misconstrued.
Kyle B.
on August 15, 2007 at 7:55 pm
Yeah I was caught off guard for a moment.
Kyle B.
on August 15, 2007 at 7:55 pm
The Pirates rally!
5-4 with a runner on second, Bot 6.
csg
on August 15, 2007 at 7:56 pm
cannon, sorry about that
Adam M
on August 15, 2007 at 7:56 pm
and Morris is now out of the game
Ben
on August 15, 2007 at 7:57 pm
I love that they used Orlando Cepeda as the answer to the question considering his arrest in May for speeding and marijuana possession.
csg
on August 15, 2007 at 7:59 pm
is strong arm better
csg
on August 15, 2007 at 7:59 pm
Bochy has been tossed
Mailman93635
on August 15, 2007 at 8:01 pm
Nice umpiring crew from what I am reading.
Adam M
on August 15, 2007 at 8:03 pm
Nats seem to be in a bit of trouble.
Mr Swings @ Everything
on August 15, 2007 at 8:05 pm
Come on Chino. Take one for the team.
david15
on August 15, 2007 at 8:05 pm
I guess Cadahia is the acting manager.
Robert
on August 15, 2007 at 8:06 pm
Indeed. Phils are going to put a big number up here in the seventh.
The Pirates send the heart of the order up in the seventh, down 5-4.
Mr Swings @ Everything
on August 15, 2007 at 8:06 pm
Oh yeah, Chino is in charge of the team according to Van Wieren.
Jeremy
on August 15, 2007 at 8:06 pm
Don’t get tossed, Huddy.
Ben
on August 15, 2007 at 8:06 pm
I’m not able to get the game either. Can someone tell me if Hudson has balked twice in this game? If so, that’s probably the first time that’s happened to a pitcher in a while.
Kyle B.
on August 15, 2007 at 8:07 pm
Ok – What happened to Bruce, and what is the deal with the balk calls?
csg
on August 15, 2007 at 8:09 pm
Tim is making his normal move to 1st and Angel has called two balks moves, he says his knee is moving or buckling, but it has to do that to make the turn and throw
Remy
on August 15, 2007 at 8:09 pm
Mike Krukow, the Giants’ TV broadcaster, says there’s no way Hudson balked. Didn’t someone on the board last night list Angel Hernandez as one of the worst umpires in the league? With his performance in tonight’s game, he’s left no doubt about just how terrible an umpire he is.
csg
on August 15, 2007 at 8:09 pm
Bruce was ejected for arguing balls and strikes
Kyle B.
on August 15, 2007 at 8:09 pm
Yeah that makes sense.
What did Bochy do to get tossed?
Jeremy
on August 15, 2007 at 8:10 pm
Bochy got tossed for arguing balls and strikes. Angel Hernandez seems to think Hudson is balking every time he throws to first but the replays show nothing.
Kyle B.
on August 15, 2007 at 8:10 pm
Remy, See Mr. Swings at #55.
Thats csg. On Gameday it came after a bunt, so I wasn’t sure.
csg
on August 15, 2007 at 8:11 pm
Im thinking we need more runs, and no those were not Balks, not even close
Jeremy
on August 15, 2007 at 8:11 pm
Hernandez has always had a hard on for Bobby and the Braves.
Kyle B.
on August 15, 2007 at 8:12 pm
Most Definitely.
Jeremy
on August 15, 2007 at 8:12 pm
Willie really needs to stop running.
csg
on August 15, 2007 at 8:12 pm
thanks Willie
Kyle B.
on August 15, 2007 at 8:12 pm
3 for 12 now from behind the plate?
Remy
on August 15, 2007 at 8:12 pm
Kyle B., I joined the game late, so thanks for the heads-up. Looks like Mr. Swings called it right.
csg
on August 15, 2007 at 8:12 pm
Jeremy dont say hard on
Kyle B.
on August 15, 2007 at 8:12 pm
Yeah, as predicted.
Jeremy
on August 15, 2007 at 8:13 pm
He’s now 2 for 9 in steals after the All Star break.
Dan
on August 15, 2007 at 8:13 pm
Another inning with potential killed by Willie Harris.
Please ban him from steal attempts.
Frank
on August 15, 2007 at 8:13 pm
Pop quiz: how many balks does Hudson have this season before tonight’s game? How many in his career?
I’ll post the answer in 5 min or so. If someone has posted this info already–I haven’t read all the posts in the thread–if so sorry.
Kyle B.
on August 15, 2007 at 8:13 pm
That’s terrible.
david15
on August 15, 2007 at 8:13 pm
Why can’t he say hard on, csg?
Adam M
on August 15, 2007 at 8:13 pm
Is Willie Harris – pardon the expression – retarded?
Mr Swings @ Everything
on August 15, 2007 at 8:15 pm
Angel Hernandez is hard on everyone. There is no way he should be calling MLB games. He incites confontations with players and managers. He’s the type of guy that will follow a guy towards his own dugout after he has complained about a bad call. You can see how that would not fly with a guy like Cox.
Thanks for being my homey Kyle B. !
Dan
on August 15, 2007 at 8:15 pm
Nationals out of the seventh leading 4-2. Ray King struck out Russell Branyan and Jimmy Rollins with bases loaded and no one out and another relief pitcher got Iguchi.
RobBroad4th
on August 15, 2007 at 8:16 pm
I like Willie leading off because he’s a good contact hitter. Its the base stealing attempts that need to go, but that may not even be his call.
Either way, I prefer Escobar leading off.
csg
on August 15, 2007 at 8:16 pm
Barry sucks, there goes our lead
Adam M
on August 15, 2007 at 8:16 pm
Yes, he’s slow. I like that.
RobBroad4th
on August 15, 2007 at 8:16 pm
Oh great.
Robert
on August 15, 2007 at 8:16 pm
Missed Harris’ nonsense fortunately.
The Nats managed to get out of it with our old friend Ray King being the centerpiece. Struck out Branyan and Rollins with the bases loaded. Still 4-2 Nats.
Extra Innings rocks.
Dan
on August 15, 2007 at 8:16 pm
Damn you Bonds!
Jeff M.
on August 15, 2007 at 8:17 pm
Yeah, it’s getting ridiculous the number of times Willie gets caught stealing. That’s just dumb. There ought to be a Braves rule: no more running once you’ve been caught 5 times in a row or 10 times in less than 30 attempts.
Kyle B.
on August 15, 2007 at 8:17 pm
I hate baseball.
Robert
on August 15, 2007 at 8:17 pm
Man, I can’t believe we are going to find a way to lose a matchup between Tim Hudson and Russ Ortiz. This team is beyond maddening.
RobBroad4th
on August 15, 2007 at 8:17 pm
That makes one of you, Kyle.
Remy
on August 15, 2007 at 8:17 pm
Okay, what’s Andruw doing hanging off the wall with a bad left elbow?
Adam M
on August 15, 2007 at 8:17 pm
I kind of loathe him, and I’m all for throwing at him as much as possible, but that Bonds can hit. Damn.
“…they’ll immediately know that this sequence of characters—F*#!—reflects history’s attitude toward not only the conditions under which he was able to hit his home runs, but also the historical implications he had on the game and its records, the relationship he had with the media and fans during his momentous chase, and just the general atmosphere of baseball in an era he will come to embody…”
csg
on August 15, 2007 at 8:19 pm
#186 – I said “hose” and got a hard time about it
I hate Barry
Frank
on August 15, 2007 at 8:19 pm
Hudson–no balks this year prior to tonight. Only 3 in his career (couldn’t have been 2 in any single game b/c the three came in three different seasons). Yet somehow crummy umpy Hernandez calls 2 tonight.
Let’s just hope Hudson keeps his head in the game and the offense wakes up against Ortiz.
Actually Kyle, I texted the same thing to a friend of mine a couple innings ago. That was more in reference to my fantasy team, but it’s becoming a way of life this summer. It’s really more of a love-hate thing, though.
Kyle B.
on August 15, 2007 at 8:20 pm
By “baseball” I mean, “when Barry Bonds hits a home run off Tim Hudson to tie the game”
Alex R.
on August 15, 2007 at 8:20 pm
Right now, I am far more upset that we have managed 2 effing runs against crappy ass Russ Ortiz then even that Hudson has allowed them to tie it. What the hell is wrong w/ this offense.
IT’S FREAKING RUSS ORTIZ.
Kyle B.
on August 15, 2007 at 8:21 pm
In the past it has meant, “…Reitsma…” and “…Kolb…”
Exactly. Besides bad pitchers, it’s pitchers no one has ever heard of, pitchers the team has never faced, or anyone young, unheard of, and the team has never faced.
I think when Tim leaves the game they should let him have a go at Hernandez. I hate umpires who think they’re the reason we’re here.
Mr Swings @ Everything
on August 15, 2007 at 8:24 pm
Having Russ Ortiz pitch for your team.
csg
on August 15, 2007 at 8:25 pm
I say with no one on, just turn and throw one at Hernandez. Then ask him if that was a balk or not
Frank
on August 15, 2007 at 8:25 pm
At the top of the tv broadcast FSN said the Braves 7.1 runs per game since July 29 was the highest in the NL. Too bad it’s only been good for roughly .500 baseball.
csg
on August 15, 2007 at 8:25 pm
Mets 5-4 going to the 9th
Mr Swings @ Everything
on August 15, 2007 at 8:25 pm
@223
That reminds me of how I used to make pitching changes in MVP Baseball. I’d just intentionally bean someone to get thrown out.
Maybe Chino and Glenn could team up on Hernandez. I mean, if Tim beat him up he’d probably get suspended, which would be totally unfair, but coaches? Eh.
Frank
on August 15, 2007 at 8:28 pm
make that your instead of you’re–ick
csg
on August 15, 2007 at 8:28 pm
McCann way to take one there
Dan
on August 15, 2007 at 8:28 pm
The best the Braves can do now against Ortiz is 4ER in 5+ innings. The Braves would have to get both those runners on though.
csg
on August 15, 2007 at 8:29 pm
any bets on Frenchy and Andruw swinging at the 1st pitch they see from the next reliever?
Frank
on August 15, 2007 at 8:29 pm
At the risk of getting the Andruw wars started (if 233 doesn’t 🙂 ), maybe Andruw can have a run at Hernandez.
I’m serious, the last time I saw someone waddling like that it was footage of me at a family picnic.
Alex R.
on August 15, 2007 at 8:33 pm
OMG. Andruw got a clutch hit.
And this is one night after he got a walk and Soriano didn’t allow a homer.
Maybe our luck is turning around.
Kyle B.
on August 15, 2007 at 8:33 pm
That’s the best thing I’ve heard all night.
Mr Swings @ Everything
on August 15, 2007 at 8:34 pm
The only thing positive we could take out of this season from Andruw Jones is that you will have a great case to demonstrate why RBI mean absolutely nothing.
9 beers 9 dogs? That’s my Saturday night. Where’s my prize?
Frank
on August 15, 2007 at 8:38 pm
Given the concern about drunk driving etc. I’m surprised Boog and Joe are kidding around about the two guys downing 9 dogs and 9 beers in 9 innings. And to answer Joe’s question about where the guys are going, my guess is they need to pee or puke or both.
so they keep showing the guys with the 9 dogs 9 beers in 9 innings shirts. Joe is loving it, however one guy has finished 9 dogs and 9 beers in 6 innings….very impressive
Mr Swings @ Everything
on August 15, 2007 at 8:40 pm
I agree with Mac. .OPS is the simplest and almost the best offensive stat so I like it the best.
csg
on August 15, 2007 at 8:40 pm
9 beers okay, 9 nine ballpark hotdogs…he’ll be feeling that burning sensation a little later
Dan
on August 15, 2007 at 8:41 pm
The followers of the Sabermetrics religion don’t care for: batting average, ERA, RBIs and stolen bases.
Alex R.
on August 15, 2007 at 8:41 pm
Willie tried to go Willie Mays Hayes again on us….
JoeyT
on August 15, 2007 at 8:41 pm
There’s a criticism about every stat because no stat can measure everything.
Runs Created comes close, and OPS+ is a good approximation, but nothing’s perfect.
For pitching, most people like some variant of defense-independent ERA (a combination of Ks, BBs, and HRs).
RobBroad4th
on August 15, 2007 at 8:41 pm
Oh come on, those ball park dogs are small.
RobBroad4th
on August 15, 2007 at 8:42 pm
10-4 Mets.
Frank
on August 15, 2007 at 8:44 pm
If the lead increases, I’d like to see Acosta in another game. He looked sharp in his first outing.
Kyle B.
on August 15, 2007 at 8:44 pm
What happened in Pittsburgh? 10-4 and still the top of the 9th
Sabermetrics religion is one of the silliest phrases I’ve ever seen.
JoeyT
on August 15, 2007 at 8:50 pm
I have to say the “sabermetrics religion” has won me a few fantasy leagues. In particular the discovery that Ks, BBs, and HRs are a better predictor of ERA than ERA gives devout believers an edge. A huge edge.
Mr Swings @ Everything
on August 15, 2007 at 8:51 pm
@291
It’s no worse than asserting that a pitcher hustles!
I wouldn’t have been opposed to having Hudson hit yet still have Big Bob come in
csg
on August 15, 2007 at 9:07 pm
why wouldnt Willie use the same bat that he’s used all night? He now has a black bat…Renty also does that, he brings out that bright red one in certain situations. Any idea
Tanto
on August 15, 2007 at 9:07 pm
Eh, the last time Hudson went into the ninth against the Giants didn’t go so well.
Dan
on August 15, 2007 at 9:07 pm
No complete games for the Braves. They’re one of only five teams. The other four teams: Nationals, Marlins, Rangers and Royals. Three last place teams and another sub-.500 team.
Coincidence that so many bad teams have no complete games? Doubtful.
Don’t you think it’s possible that the Braves could buck that trend? Sheesh. The Braves aren’t as bad as any of those teams purely because of their offense. Do they need more pitching? Sure they do. Can they possibly get by without the complete games? Sure!
Why is that the right move? His pitch count is low, relatively.
Mr Swings @ Everything
on August 15, 2007 at 9:12 pm
I’m going to go out on a limb and say that in 2007, lack of CG is not exactly diagnostic of a bad staff.
RobBroad4th
on August 15, 2007 at 9:13 pm
Hudson hasn’t done well in the ninth inning and it’s a hot night in which he ran the bases quite a bit. Plus, I’m sure his ninth inning struggles are in his mind and won’t help.
I think the Braves can buck the trend, yes. But it’s still saying something about the starting rotation that it’s mid-August and no one has a complete game.
The Braves are bucking the trend right now. They’re seven games better than the Marlins and in the playoff hunt despite the complete lacking of starters finishing games.
Adam M
on August 15, 2007 at 9:16 pm
I agree Dan. I don’t think Huddy should throw 130, but he’s at 94. Let him start the inning – it’s a 3-run lead. If he lets the first runner on, then yank him for Moylan, not Wickman. Why is this so hard?
RobBroad4th
on August 15, 2007 at 9:16 pm
It’s a confidence builder if anything. Not that Wickman didn’t have troubles, but a few missed calls by the home plate ump didn’t help anything.
It’s 3 pitchers right now. Bedard is one of them; Santana and Peavy are the other two. That Beckett is in this conversation is another reason why ESPN sucks. I can’t begin to believe Gammon is the person spewing such nonsense.
david15
on August 15, 2007 at 9:19 pm
Gammons was quoting someone else. It might have been Bobby, actually. I can’t really remember.
csg
on August 15, 2007 at 9:19 pm
quit messing around and throw strikes, you’ve got a 3 run lead
Dan
on August 15, 2007 at 9:19 pm
Oh boy, it’s starting.
That walk was a killer.
Our New Insect Overlords
on August 15, 2007 at 9:19 pm
Get.
Wickman.
Out.
Of.
There.
Adam M
on August 15, 2007 at 9:19 pm
Meanwhile, Chris Young, who is the 2nd-best pitcher on his team and possibly one of the five best in baseball, struck out the side to begin the game. I remember when we used to have dominance like that… I’d take him over Beckett too.
Yeah, enough of this “ideal situation for Wickman” BS. The man is tired, out of shape, and old. We can’t do this in the postseason.
Jeremy
on August 15, 2007 at 9:22 pm
You still suck, fatso.
Adam M
on August 15, 2007 at 9:22 pm
If he keeps pitching, there definitely won’t be a postseason.
Kyle B.
on August 15, 2007 at 9:22 pm
The 8th and 9th innings are stressful for Braves fans. It’s been rough the last few years.
Alex R.
on August 15, 2007 at 9:22 pm
Thank God, but I am effing sick of these ugly saves. He’s beyond unreliable as our closer. Stop this madness, Bobby.
Dan
on August 15, 2007 at 9:23 pm
Gammons said if he could choose any pitcher to start game seven of the world series, he’d take Josh Beckett. Call me biased, but I’d take Smoltz over anyone else.
Adam M
on August 15, 2007 at 9:23 pm
Alex – Bobby is a great manager, no doubt, but he is partly responsible for this madness.
well, there’s a win but i still don’t trust butterbean any farther than the entire brave’s journal crew can throw him.
RobBroad4th
on August 15, 2007 at 9:23 pm
Are we ready for a closer by committee? (I just had a Ken Ray flashback).
david15
on August 15, 2007 at 9:23 pm
Good win, way to get lucky Bob.
As or Gammons, I’m about 90% sure he mentioned talking to Bobby and discussing it with him. He said something about how it meant a lot that one of the best talent evaluators he knew was so high on Bedard. Then he said something about how he asked a bunch of guys who they wanted to start the seventh game of the WS and they mostly said Beckett.
Well, I blame the camera on that one. I felt uneasy, but just gauge how Andruw is looking. He wasn’t looking up and over, he was just looking up. 😛 I still think it was the right move, because I’m convinced that if Huddy tryed for the CG, the worst would have happened.
Robert
on August 15, 2007 at 9:24 pm
Everybody say, “Thank you Andruw”.
Adam M
on August 15, 2007 at 9:25 pm
I love Gammons, and I will forever give him a pass because everything after the stroke came, um, after a stroke, but that is a crazy crazy thing to say.
RobBroad4th
on August 15, 2007 at 9:25 pm
Thank you, Andruw.
csg
on August 15, 2007 at 9:26 pm
Beckett would be his top choice? Are you serious??? I can think of 6 or 7 pitchers I would take over him in a game 7 situation
Jeff K
on August 15, 2007 at 9:28 pm
@385
Are you watching the same B-Ball Tonight? Tonight? Having a stroke with Peter?
Brian Jordan is pronouncing Mark’s name “Tex-share-a”.
csg
on August 15, 2007 at 9:29 pm
btw, Brian Jordan is terrible on Braves live…terrible, I cant watch it anymore
csg
on August 15, 2007 at 9:30 pm
Sam,
yes heard him say that also
Jeff K
on August 15, 2007 at 9:33 pm
I agree, poor Peter. But he’s responsible for what he says on tv. Or at least ESPN is responsible for putting him on tv.
david15
on August 15, 2007 at 9:34 pm
Yes, the same Baseball Tonight where Peter Gammons has been reporting everyone else’s opinions for the last 100 years. I don’t intend to demean your otherwise classy stroke comment, but are you sure you should be saying such things after (incredibly) including Tim Hudson in a best pitchers in the game discussion while omitting Jake Peavy?
Adam M
on August 15, 2007 at 9:35 pm
You know, it’s still not half as crazy as what comes out Phillips or Kruk’s mouth, so maybe it has nothing to do with the stroke. Maybe Disney is making them all crazy.
csg
on August 15, 2007 at 9:42 pm
Top Pitchers in the game
Peavy, Young, Bedard, Verlander, Santana, Beckett, Webb, Hamels, Oswalt, Smoltz, Hudson, Lackey, Zambrano, and Harang… I would say that these are the true aces in the game right now.
Other pitchers like Kazmir, Carmona, Dice K and Hernandez are 2nd tier #1’s
Im probably missing a few
csg
on August 15, 2007 at 9:44 pm
anyone now that Halladay has 5 CG’s this year, thats stupid good. His era is a little high this year at 3.99
csg
on August 15, 2007 at 9:48 pm
Peter said that Wells clear waivers tomorrow and that the Braves are interested. Take it for what its worth
csg
on August 15, 2007 at 9:48 pm
also says that we are interested in Towers and he may end up there either now or next year
Recap is now up. My service was down there so I wrote it offline, forgive me if I made an error or two working from memory.
david15
on August 15, 2007 at 9:54 pm
You said Peavy belongs after you omitted him. And now you say Hudson belongs just before posting stats showing he’s clearly inferior to Bedard, especially when taking into consideration the difficulty of their respective leagues? I guess you think that’s enlightening?
Use code “Journal” for a 5% discount.
Mac, any word yet on when you’re going to get the answers back from DOB?
will Barry be out of the lineup tonight, he hurt himself jogging to 1st last night
from the previous thread, thanks for the faux Morgan/Miller call on Bobby’s ejection…that was classically funny.
Re: Andruw injury
I didn’t want to “get in trouble” with the Andruw love-fest crowd, but I also feel strongly he & Boras are milking a fake injury to find any way possible to get Jones that extra $ this winter.
Doesn’t matter, there’s still a few suckers, er, teams that will overpay him…the Rangers, Cubs and Nats are the 3 that come to mind. Since the Yankees are still weighed down from overspending on Johnny Damon, I don’t see Cashman going after Jones.
Alex R.: I’m not part of the “Andruw love-fest crowd,” but I don’t think he is faking an injury. I don’t think Andruw is that selfish.
From Jim Callis’ chat for those of you keeping your eye on the Braves most recent draft:
Andrew (Athens, GA): Jim, will Josh Fields be closing the the Bulldogs next year or has Atlanta agreed to his demands?
SportsNation Jim Callis: I think he’ll be back at my alma mater.
I am an unashamed Andruw fan. I’m not certain he’ll command much more on his next contract than he’s getting now, because he really has stunk it up offensively.
If we can sign him for six to eight years at $15M per or less, I hope he finishes his career as a Brave. The boy still plays a very good centerfield.
Alex,
I don’t know what “Andruw love-fest crowd” you are referring to, but, in fairness, you have to evaluate his body of work over several years, not just this year. It’s not unreasonable that Andruw would return to his old form next year, ie, .26–.265 with 40-45 home runs and playing great defense. I’m certainly not advocating that Andruw is a great player–I’ve always thought he was overrated and would rather sign Teixera–but you are sort of exhibiting Andruw hatred for a guy that, for all his flaws, plays his ass off and has played through a lot of injuries. Whether or not he is using his elbow as an excuse, it’s pretty clear that the years of diving for balls have taken their toll on his body. I think Andruw deserves a little more respect than to be accused of faking an injury.
# 7: Right on!
JD,
Boras wants his client to get as maximum amount of $ as possible and claiming an injury might help him recover millions. I would not be shocked.
I would also disagree with Andruw playing as hard as I see Chipper, Francouer, McCann, Smoltz and several other of our stars play–guys I always see hustling. You do remember Bobby once yanked ‘Druw out of a game for not hustling?
thanks for the link KLB
All kidding aside, Boras isn’t quite the anti-christ. I know many people to many things to get money, but I just don’t think faking an injury while your team is in the middle of a penant race is one of those things. Maybe I am naive, but AJ is a professional athlete and as such uber competitive. Notwithstanding Boras’ alleged immorality.
I have to agree with Marc @ 7.
JD,
Have you ever actually SEEN Boras and the anti Christ at the same time? So you can’t say that with complete certainty….:-)
I think Jones is a great defensive player. Offensively, I think this year is more of an outlier than the true Jones. (An off the cuff guess: he’s around 720 ops now; I think he’ll be about 100 points better next year.)
So I’m no Andruw hater, but I think signing him for 6-8 years at $15m per year is way too risky.
I don’t know that I would call it faking an injury, but it might be a case of making an injury seem like much more than it is. That’s still a harsh thing to say about someone.
Alex, good point. Come to think of that I’ve never seen Osama and Boras at the same time either. Maybe he is Vick’s tie to Iran and Al Qaeda.
JDMaker1,
I think we have to assume that’s the case until someone offers conclusive proof to the contrary.
He’s having an off year whether due to injury or not. It happens. There’s every reason to think he’ll hit more like the Andruw of ’05-’06 next year. Somebody will pay him at or close to what Boras wants. It won’t be the Braves.
For our friends on the Gulf Coast, might want to think about taking a vacation next weekend.
http://icons.wunderground.com/data/images/at200704_5day.gif
Justin,
I think that’s a very fair way to put it–I can agree with that. Faking is harsh, I know, so it’s fairer to say “exaggerating”. Good call.
Even though I’m his country mate, I can still look at Andruw’s play objectively and yes, he’s been beyond awful this year.
Either way, tonight the Tigers will give the start to another kid from Curacao, the first Curacao pitcher in MLB history…so hopefully the Indians won’t kill him out there…
http://www.blowncoverage.com/2007/08/jair-jurrjens-to-make-history-tonight.html
I myself am looking forward to the inexpensive signing of Coco Crisp or Randy Winn to fill the center field void and saving the big bucks for Teixeira.
That was what, 8 or 9 years ago that Bobby yanked him. I think the statute of limitations on that offense has run off. He certainly doesn’t jake it in the outfield; if you don’t run out a ground ball, everyone sees it but it would be easy to ease off a little on a ball in the gap, not dive, etc., no one would know the difference. This is certainly nothing against Francoeur, but he makes a big show of hustling. Pete Rose did the same thing. That doesn’t necessarily mean he is trying harder than Andruw. And, slow guys like McCann always look like they are hustling because they have to run so hard to make it to the next base. Plus, if you start going there, you have to mention Henry Aaron, who never LOOKED like he was playing as hard as Willie Mays. That was just his style. It’s amazing to me that I’m defending Andruw because I’m not that much of a fan, but fair is fair.
It’s fair to argue–which I do–that Andruw is an extremely undisciplined hitter who has wasted a lot of his gifts over the years and that he is not worth what the Braves would have to pay to keep him. But, to say he is faking an injury or doesn’t hustle is, to me, beyond the pale. And I don’t think anyone was saying that in 2005. I understand that people don’t like it when he seems to smile after striking out; it’s much more satisfying to see a guy curse or smash his helmet. But’s that a matter of style, not substance.
Next year and for at least a few more years, Andruw will be a better centerfielder — not hitter — than Frenchy, Willie, B.Jones, or the other options touted here recently.
The Braves success in the 1990’s was built on pitching and defense. To win, you’ve got to catch the ball, and very few outfielders do it as well as Andruw.
The kid’s 30. He’s still got several productive years ahead of him. I agree he needs to be more coachable offensively, but he plays great defense almost every day. I’d rather have him than Beltran or Hunter or Cameron, but I’d also like to have Peavy, Oswalt, Beckett and Zambrano.
If I had to choose, which I don’t, between Andruw and Zambrano, I’d take Zambrano or any other pitcher of his ilk. I just think it’s more likely that we could re-sign Andruw than get one of the aforementioned stud pitchers.
Obviously, I like Andruw, even as bad as he is; and I trust JS to give Bobby tools to compete. Somebody will play centerfield. If Jones goes, I’ll miss him; but I’ll still be a Braves fan.
What about Aaron Rowand for center next year? Too much of a stretch?
with our budget would you rather have Andruw at 5/15 per or Tex at 7/22-23 per. Both will get that if not more on the open market. Or not have either and focus on stud pitchers and hope we get cheaper replacements?
Rowand is having a career year, but he also gives himself some freak injuries. He’s a very good defensive guy, but he might be playing himself into some big bucks also
I’m certainly not going to defend Andruw’s offense (or offensive) play this summer. But, it’s pretty clear that this year is the proverbial outlier, at least offensively. He’s still one of the best defensively, and that’s where his value will have to be for the rest of the year. And Bobby ought to hit him 8th at this point, since virtually every starter (note the term, cause as bad as he is, I’d rather him than Woodward or Thorman) is better this year.
And for those that like justice, know that it is going to cost him $$ (which is part of the system), just as it would have cost teams had he been hitting this year, with say a .950 ops at this point. That said, I don’t think that I could accuse him of faking it.
If it was a choice of Andruw or Tex as opposed to Santana, I would obviously take Santana. Maybe even Zambrano although his temperament makes that more problematic. Maybe even a Harang if he was available and certainly a Peavey. Other than that, I would choose Tex because he is and will be a much better hitter than Andruw and I think it would be easier to replace Andruw’s defense. (I’m not saying it would be just as good.)
It’s probably more dangerous to give big contracts, especially for a lot of years, to pitchers. You would do it for Santana, but teams generally get burned with long pitcher contracts, unless the pitcher is very young.
Andruw and Boras will take arbitration and try again the next year (just like Maddux). IF Andruw comes back to form, he will have left too much on the table.
Of course, that will mess with JS’s work big time (like it did with Maddux / Millwood / Estrada). However, I bet he has a good plant for that now.
It wouldn’t be the worst thing if Andruw accepted arbitration; the Braves would get a year at possibly below-market rates. But I would be surprised if JS really tries to sign Andruw long-term because he most likely has already seen Andruw’s peak (2005). It’s unlikely that, even if this year is a fluke, that Andruw is going to get better at this point in his career. So, assuming it’s one or the other, Tex is a better hitter at a position that the Braves have been unable to adequately fill for years. And I think it’s easier to replace Andruw’s defense, especially considering that it is likely to decline as he gets older. Of course, if they can’t get Tex to do an extension the Braves are sort of screwed.
How in the hell does one hustle while pitching?! Does that even make sense? I see Chipper taking it easy on the way to 1B quite a bit.
How hard is it to log a new alias after getting banned? There are a few things that need to be said that would probably get me banned.
Fantasy Football LEague care to join???
League ID#:466115
Password:bravos
I think there’s good chance that Andruw accepts arbitration this year, too. Not that it’s a slam dunk, but someone coming off a year like he is having stands to gain a lot by taking a “mulligan” year by accepting arbitration (pardon the mixed terms)
That was what, 8 or 9 years ago that Bobby yanked him. I think the statute of limitations on that offense has run off.
You would think so, but not with Alex. Andruw has been very durable in his career as a quick check of the ‘Games’ column in his stat line will prove. Over the years he has no doubt played through any number of injuries but still managed to put up one Andruw-like year after the next. This season he finally runs up against an injury he can’t really play through, and a (probably small) portion of his team’s “fans” accuse him of faking it. Obviously ridiculous.
Hopefully his next fan base his a little more appreciative.
Oh yeah, I have a fantasy football league too, that has a few spots open.
League ID: 184401
PW: braves
I think there’s good chance that Andruw accepts arbitration this year, too.
Personally I would be surprised if we offer arbitration. I imagine JS has some pretty carefully laid plans for the offseason and doesn’t want them derailed by a sudden Maddux-like arbitration surprise.
it is quite humorous that our 8th hitter is batting .330+ and Andruw is batting 7th at .212
do we lose the draft picks if we dont offer arb?
How hard is it to log a new alias after getting banned? There are a few things that need to be said that would probably get me banned.
I imagine Mac would ban your IP address, so it would probably be a bit of a pain. Just let it go, he’ll be gone in a few months and hopefully they can find a new, more worthy target.
anyone know that Ortiz has only given up 2ER in his last 14IP. has he decided to start trying to pitch well again?
do we lose the draft picks if we dont offer arb?
We would not get the draft picks without offering arb. So that’s the trade off. Is the risk of him accepting and screwing your budget great enough that you are willing to not get the draft picks. JS has played this on a case by case basis in the past, usually offering arb but in some cases where he really couldn’t afford for the guy to accept, he didn’t offer.
I don’t think he will accept, he is still the best CF on the market outside of Ichiro, on reputation alone. I don’t think JS has anything to worry about in offering arb.
On a different note, for those who are advertising your football leagues, you might want to mention which site you are at, ESPN, Yahoo, CBS. Just a thought.
has he decided to start trying to pitch well again?
Not sure where you got that stat but he’s only pitched once since June 4th. A so-so 5 IP, 2 ER outing against those mighty Pirates.
I will use this opportunity to point out that Andruw is 10-21 career against Russ.
Ohh yeah thanks Justin.the one i said was Yahoo. I somehow like yahoo better than Espn although Espn has a better user interface and update the stats without having to purchase those extra things.
Anyone know if CBS one is any good??
I just joined the facebook group.
Andruw Jones’ Weight > Andruw Jones’ Batting Average
We need those Mighty pirates 2nite to beat the mets i doubt it though Maine Vs Morris?? whats the chances its too bad that whenever we decide to win the Mets and Phillies decide to do the same…well all we can do is try to do our part.
We would really be crazy not to offer AJ arbitration. At worst, if he accepts the arbitration, you get him again in his “contract year” (not that it worked so great this year, but in theory…); you get to compare this awful year in setting the salary; and the one year bridge with AJ in CF in 2008 gets you closer to Schaeffer or Brandon Jones as a replacement.
We would really be crazy not to offer AJ arbitration.
You are probably right. After the Maddux/Millwood for Estrada fiasco JS starting being really conservative with offering arbitration – for example he didn’t offer Sheffield. If the increase in payroll is really real, he may not have to play things so carefully.
Sorry for a little distraction … this from Matt Diaz about last night’s game:
“Wickman’s as solid a closer as it comes,” Diaz said. “We thought we had it wrapped up, but when they tied it up and he shut them down with the bases loaded, that was huge. Him getting us back in the dugout tied was huge. He girded up his loins and pitched unbelievably there.”
Pretty funny, but, the last thing I want to think about is Bob Wickman’s loins.
Lineups:
Davis CF
Vizquel SS
Winn RF
Bonds LF
Klesko 1B
Durham 2B
Feliz 3B
Rodriguez C
Harris LF
Johnson 2B
Chip 3B
Tex 1B
McCann C
Francoeur RF
Andruw CF
Yutility SS
Pretty standard stuff.
Five in the first for the Mets. Better take care of business tonight.
I really hate the Mets and why did the Pirates trade for Morris? Please explain that one
Yep, Andruw is batting a cool .476 against Ortiz, but with no HR’s
I saw where Duke is going to miss the rest of the season as well. It would suck to be a Pirates fan. They have such a nice ballpark too. One in which I saw Scott Thorman hit two home runs in one game earlier this year…it seems like another season.
oooooooohhhhhhhhh. I didn’t know that Angel Hernandez was working this series? He’s at 1B tonight.
A.) Does Bobby got ejected twice in two games
B.) Does that mean Hernandez will be behind the plate tomorrow?
how about this scenario, bases loaded two outs and the pitcher Redding, gives the Nats a two run double. 2-0 Nats
#55 – I thought they rotated around the bases, so I have no idea what’s going on unless the guy who was behind the plate last night is sick tonight or something.
Klesko might have hunted him down after the game
So the Giants’ leadoff hitter is a guy who couldn’t play for the Pirates?
K
nice play Tex,
whats the average age for the Giants? Im thinking 65, are these guys getting SSI also
did anyone just see the
Bigger Cap = Smaller Cup sign, thats a good one
how about this scenario, bases loaded two outs and the pitcher Redding, gives the Nats a two run double. 2-0 Nats
Couldn’t handle the running. Werth goes yard and it’s 2-1.
I think Willie runs here
this catcher is 2-11 in throwing out runners, surprised Willie is still at 1st
what’s willie’s success rate?
It’s so weird hearing Simpson talk about OPS. I mean, it’s cool, but it’s weird.
I remember the walks. They are a little more fun when you are on the other side of things.
that works
It’s so weird hearing Simpson talk about OPS. I mean, it’s cool, but it’s weird.
Sciambi has rubbed off on him.
Remember that year Russ Ortiz started the first game of the playoffs? I wanted to cry when I found that out.
1-0 no hits
or-tease is just what remember him as.
I wonder what Simpson’s career OPS was.
Pirates got 2 back
It was low.
.606
wow, Simpson’s numbers in 2001 are outstanding.
288 Ab’s .261 OBP, great job Joe
1981 not 2001
hudson is cruz’n
I bet you every single point of that OBP was gained via ground balls through the hole between 1B & 2B.
Joe should have taken roids
Jeff Francoeur, OBP machine.
I’d love to see Andruw bunt here.
c’mon Andruw .. no DP pleeease
Joe is talking about what you do when you struggle, thats funny when did he not struggle
yes! only one out! .. we still have a chance this inning. thanks Andruw for the non-DP!
while Andruw is looking terrible against Ortiz, Diaz is riding the pine
How did Ortiz ever win 21 games period
Because Andruw has 73 RBIs and Diaz only has 33. Do the math, csg.
Sorry Stu, I stole your joke.
Huddy with our 1st hit
Tim Hudson, RBI machine.
Willie!!!
How did Ortiz ever win 21 games period
Incredible run support. That 2003 team led the NL in runs scored, batting average, HR, slugging, and OPS.
dont blame him for not sending Hudson
Me neither.
I just checked in… is Ortiz already over 50 pitches? Nice!
For the record that’s Redding driving in runs in the Philly game, Morris drove in a run in the Mets game, and Hudson here.
Remember this next time we have the DH/pitchers can’t hit/are boring discussion.
Also Smoltz saved 45 games, which helped — not a lot of blown leads.
Did Harris go see Diaz’ optometrist? Have any other players ever had this career path? Is this the real Willie Harris?
With numbers like that, how can Simpson actually analyze hitting on national television.
Didn’t every starter in that 2003 lineup have an above OPS+ over 100? That was a crazy good lineup.
Joe mentioned the University of Oklahoma.
DRINK!
huddy just got hit in the leg again
he’s good though
Correction on 2003:
B-Ref says only Fick was below 100 OPS+, but if you replace Fick with Julio, everyone was over 100.
Joe should mention the University of Oklahoma even more than he already does.
McLouth goes deep. 5-3 Mets.
Angel called a balk, here comes Bobby
wow he stays
add one more to the ejectometer, he’s gone
Awesome.
Cox’s ejections have attained kitch value.
Bobby! Bobby!
Isn’t it great that the best thing our manager does is get thrown out of games? Give’em hell Bobby!
He gone.
The 2003 team was the most fun to watch in recent memory. Javy and Shef were bananas that year.
I caught a couple “bullsh–s” and “yeahs.” Anyone get anything else? 🙂
#55 – Nostradamus.
At least our fans are recognizing Bobby’s arguing “greatness” with those cheers.
Bobby is Mr. Miyagi to Phillip Wellman’s Daniel LaRusso.
alot, I mean alot of BS’s in there
great catch by Frenchy
And Hernandez is Cobra-Kai Dojo?
sonic commercials are one of a kind..
loved the “gotta go strong to the hole or dont go at all” and “sieze the burrito”
I asked last night and got no response, who becomes the acting manager when Cox is out? Is it Cadahia or McDowell? In the past it went to the bench coach Corrales but it seemed like McDowell was making the pitching changes? Do they split duties or something? I need information!
Mr Swings, I bet Bobby is sitting on the steps
McDowell probably makes the pitching change. Bobby is still managing. . . he’s just sitting on a chair down the tunnel.
Time for a big inning
Yeah, Swings. My understanding is that Bobby still technically manages from the clubhouse and that ejections are more of a technicality. However, I believe the pitching coach is supposed to take over when the manager is kicked out.
61 pitches, no outs in the 3rd
I think we just found a team with a bullpen more tired than ours.
Nice patience, McCann. Good grief.
I think it would be great if they made the manager go sit with some of the opposing team’s fans after he gets thrown out like they do in English soccer.
Or not.
That was ugly.
Do any of you guys get the MLB extra innings package ? I live out here in California and I am a big Braves fan. They’re blacking out the game because they’re playing the worthless Giants. I thought since the Braves are the home team that they could not black out the game. I only have these black out problems when they play the Giants or the A’s in interleague. It does not matter if the Braves are home or away. What a bunch of BS. Anyone else have problems like these in your area ? Thanks.
Mailmain, on the MLB.TV website, there is a place where you can type in your ZIP and it will tell you what teams will be blacked out. Unfortunately, home and away doesn’t matter.
Even on TBS, if the Braves play the Pirates, Reds, or Cleveland, it’s blackout out for me in Ohio.
The extra innings blackout restriction works the same way, I’m sure.
Wash up 4-1
Klesko has been tossed
And he hates life.
Barry just basically carried Klesko off the field
Well, the Pirates ran up Maine’s pitchcount and he’s out of there after five. But they are still down 5-3. Mota’s in.
I’m watching the Giants broadcast, and the ump from last night’s game, Barrett, just kept walking toward Klesko, egging him on.
Gameday showing the count to Durham at 5-1.
Escobar has a hose
Yeah, all the Diamondbacks games are blacked out for me on Extra Innings, and I don’t even live in Arizona.
Andruw be useful here
Andruw actually hit one out of the infield, its amazing
Joe is a moron, it never stops
The trivia question is: What hall of fame player used a different bat in all of his 2,351 hits
Joe’s answer: maybe its a pitcher that gave up that many hits
csg,
you may want to find another descriptor…the “hose” is easily misconstrued.
Yeah I was caught off guard for a moment.
The Pirates rally!
5-4 with a runner on second, Bot 6.
cannon, sorry about that
and Morris is now out of the game
I love that they used Orlando Cepeda as the answer to the question considering his arrest in May for speeding and marijuana possession.
is strong arm better
Bochy has been tossed
Nice umpiring crew from what I am reading.
Nats seem to be in a bit of trouble.
Come on Chino. Take one for the team.
I guess Cadahia is the acting manager.
Indeed. Phils are going to put a big number up here in the seventh.
The Pirates send the heart of the order up in the seventh, down 5-4.
Oh yeah, Chino is in charge of the team according to Van Wieren.
Don’t get tossed, Huddy.
I’m not able to get the game either. Can someone tell me if Hudson has balked twice in this game? If so, that’s probably the first time that’s happened to a pitcher in a while.
Ok – What happened to Bruce, and what is the deal with the balk calls?
Tim is making his normal move to 1st and Angel has called two balks moves, he says his knee is moving or buckling, but it has to do that to make the turn and throw
Mike Krukow, the Giants’ TV broadcaster, says there’s no way Hudson balked. Didn’t someone on the board last night list Angel Hernandez as one of the worst umpires in the league? With his performance in tonight’s game, he’s left no doubt about just how terrible an umpire he is.
Bruce was ejected for arguing balls and strikes
Yeah that makes sense.
What did Bochy do to get tossed?
Bochy got tossed for arguing balls and strikes. Angel Hernandez seems to think Hudson is balking every time he throws to first but the replays show nothing.
Remy, See Mr. Swings at #55.
Thats csg. On Gameday it came after a bunt, so I wasn’t sure.
Im thinking we need more runs, and no those were not Balks, not even close
Hernandez has always had a hard on for Bobby and the Braves.
Most Definitely.
Willie really needs to stop running.
thanks Willie
3 for 12 now from behind the plate?
Kyle B., I joined the game late, so thanks for the heads-up. Looks like Mr. Swings called it right.
Jeremy dont say hard on
Yeah, as predicted.
He’s now 2 for 9 in steals after the All Star break.
Another inning with potential killed by Willie Harris.
Please ban him from steal attempts.
Pop quiz: how many balks does Hudson have this season before tonight’s game? How many in his career?
I’ll post the answer in 5 min or so. If someone has posted this info already–I haven’t read all the posts in the thread–if so sorry.
That’s terrible.
Why can’t he say hard on, csg?
Is Willie Harris – pardon the expression – retarded?
wow, the ejection trifecta has been met and willie has now been caught on 11 out of 27 attempts.
Well he’s slow, if that’s what you mean. His jumps are so bad.
Two runs through five against Russ Fracking Oriz. We’ll probably lose this game.
But let’s bat him lead off because he has “speed.” Am I the only one here who continues to be pissed off by our lineups?
What was Huddy’s response after the second balk call? I ran to the store and all hell broke loose.
i hate him
Angel Hernandez is hard on everyone. There is no way he should be calling MLB games. He incites confontations with players and managers. He’s the type of guy that will follow a guy towards his own dugout after he has complained about a bad call. You can see how that would not fly with a guy like Cox.
Thanks for being my homey Kyle B. !
Nationals out of the seventh leading 4-2. Ray King struck out Russell Branyan and Jimmy Rollins with bases loaded and no one out and another relief pitcher got Iguchi.
I like Willie leading off because he’s a good contact hitter. Its the base stealing attempts that need to go, but that may not even be his call.
Either way, I prefer Escobar leading off.
Barry sucks, there goes our lead
Yes, he’s slow. I like that.
Oh great.
Missed Harris’ nonsense fortunately.
The Nats managed to get out of it with our old friend Ray King being the centerpiece. Struck out Branyan and Rollins with the bases loaded. Still 4-2 Nats.
Extra Innings rocks.
Damn you Bonds!
Yeah, it’s getting ridiculous the number of times Willie gets caught stealing. That’s just dumb. There ought to be a Braves rule: no more running once you’ve been caught 5 times in a row or 10 times in less than 30 attempts.
I hate baseball.
Man, I can’t believe we are going to find a way to lose a matchup between Tim Hudson and Russ Ortiz. This team is beyond maddening.
That makes one of you, Kyle.
Okay, what’s Andruw doing hanging off the wall with a bad left elbow?
I kind of loathe him, and I’m all for throwing at him as much as possible, but that Bonds can hit. Damn.
well i hear that escobar has a meat javlin of an arm.
well i hear that escobar has a meat javlin of an arm.
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/48895
“…they’ll immediately know that this sequence of characters—F*#!—reflects history’s attitude toward not only the conditions under which he was able to hit his home runs, but also the historical implications he had on the game and its records, the relationship he had with the media and fans during his momentous chase, and just the general atmosphere of baseball in an era he will come to embody…”
#186 – I said “hose” and got a hard time about it
I hate Barry
Hudson–no balks this year prior to tonight. Only 3 in his career (couldn’t have been 2 in any single game b/c the three came in three different seasons). Yet somehow crummy umpy Hernandez calls 2 tonight.
Let’s just hope Hudson keeps his head in the game and the offense wakes up against Ortiz.
sorry for the double post…
Actually Kyle, I texted the same thing to a friend of mine a couple innings ago. That was more in reference to my fantasy team, but it’s becoming a way of life this summer. It’s really more of a love-hate thing, though.
By “baseball” I mean, “when Barry Bonds hits a home run off Tim Hudson to tie the game”
Right now, I am far more upset that we have managed 2 effing runs against crappy ass Russ Ortiz then even that Hudson has allowed them to tie it. What the hell is wrong w/ this offense.
IT’S FREAKING RUSS ORTIZ.
In the past it has meant, “…Reitsma…” and “…Kolb…”
Oh, in which case I really hate “baseball.”
Let me see if I have the right:
Braves are okay against great pitchers
Braves are great against average pitchers
Braves are bad against bad pitchers
hudson usually sucks against the gigantes
Exactly. Besides bad pitchers, it’s pitchers no one has ever heard of, pitchers the team has never faced, or anyone young, unheard of, and the team has never faced.
whats worse 2 runs or only 3 hits off Ortiz
I think when Tim leaves the game they should let him have a go at Hernandez. I hate umpires who think they’re the reason we’re here.
Having Russ Ortiz pitch for your team.
I say with no one on, just turn and throw one at Hernandez. Then ask him if that was a balk or not
At the top of the tv broadcast FSN said the Braves 7.1 runs per game since July 29 was the highest in the NL. Too bad it’s only been good for roughly .500 baseball.
Mets 5-4 going to the 9th
@223
That reminds me of how I used to make pitching changes in MVP Baseball. I’d just intentionally bean someone to get thrown out.
c’mon let’s get it back brian
Mac and csg–having Huddy go after Hernandez does have some appeal, but the starting pitching is way too thin for him to get a suspension.
no DP’s here
way to take one for the team b-mac
csg–Andruw is on deck, that’s when you’re DP will arrive.
Maybe Chino and Glenn could team up on Hernandez. I mean, if Tim beat him up he’d probably get suspended, which would be totally unfair, but coaches? Eh.
make that your instead of you’re–ick
McCann way to take one there
The best the Braves can do now against Ortiz is 4ER in 5+ innings. The Braves would have to get both those runners on though.
any bets on Frenchy and Andruw swinging at the 1st pitch they see from the next reliever?
At the risk of getting the Andruw wars started (if 233 doesn’t 🙂 ), maybe Andruw can have a run at Hernandez.
Milledge just stole 3rd, 1 out
Triple play?
Andruw will hit into a triple play.
Bases loaded and no one out. You don’t think…..?
well that works, Andruw you’re DUE!!!
Mac you are a cynic.
That’s one way to score.
thank god!
Bases loaded, no outs, Andruw up … oh, no.
Correction …
… thank God for a wild pitch.
That should be an RBI. If Acheson didn’t fear Andruw’s bat he wouldn’t have thrown one so far outside of the strike zone.
ANDRUW!
Andruw Jones did it.
At least even Druw couldn’t screw that up!
When all else fails, let the Giants beat themselves.
To be fair, that’s a single if anyone but the Sloth is in left.
oh ye of little faith 🙂
SUP?
Good on Andruw for the hit, but he missed Hernandez rounding the bag.
Druw!!!!
Ortiz 5IP 4ER, thats better
I’m serious, the last time I saw someone waddling like that it was footage of me at a family picnic.
OMG. Andruw got a clutch hit.
And this is one night after he got a walk and Soriano didn’t allow a homer.
Maybe our luck is turning around.
That’s the best thing I’ve heard all night.
The only thing positive we could take out of this season from Andruw Jones is that you will have a great case to demonstrate why RBI mean absolutely nothing.
Hudson should bat above Chris Woodward.
Okay, will Tim make it through this without getting ejected?
Huddy’s on first this might be fun to watch.
mac,
the sloth beat out a double play last night…maybe he has a special knee brace too.
Huddy’s the man. What a year he’s having!
ummm. Atchinson sucks
2 hit night for Huddy
What stats do people like? It seems to me someone has a criticism for about every stat. I’m not calling anyone out, I’m just curious.
looks like the mets tacked another one on in the 9th 6-4
shit make that 8-4
9 beers 9 dogs? That’s my Saturday night. Where’s my prize?
Given the concern about drunk driving etc. I’m surprised Boog and Joe are kidding around about the two guys downing 9 dogs and 9 beers in 9 innings. And to answer Joe’s question about where the guys are going, my guess is they need to pee or puke or both.
I don’t like any one stat. None of them tell the whole picture; you have to look at many.
nats still up on phil
so they keep showing the guys with the 9 dogs 9 beers in 9 innings shirts. Joe is loving it, however one guy has finished 9 dogs and 9 beers in 6 innings….very impressive
I agree with Mac. .OPS is the simplest and almost the best offensive stat so I like it the best.
9 beers okay, 9 nine ballpark hotdogs…he’ll be feeling that burning sensation a little later
The followers of the Sabermetrics religion don’t care for: batting average, ERA, RBIs and stolen bases.
Willie tried to go Willie Mays Hayes again on us….
There’s a criticism about every stat because no stat can measure everything.
Runs Created comes close, and OPS+ is a good approximation, but nothing’s perfect.
For pitching, most people like some variant of defense-independent ERA (a combination of Ks, BBs, and HRs).
Oh come on, those ball park dogs are small.
10-4 Mets.
If the lead increases, I’d like to see Acosta in another game. He looked sharp in his first outing.
What happened in Pittsburgh? 10-4 and still the top of the 9th
still 9 hotdogs, that’s a lot of lips & a$$holes
at least it’s 4-2 Nats over Phils in the 8th.
nice start
Uh oh. Its the patented Seventh Inning Atlanta Braves Pitcher Grind.
looks like it might be time to call mahay-day
Sabermetrics religion is one of the silliest phrases I’ve ever seen.
I have to say the “sabermetrics religion” has won me a few fantasy leagues. In particular the discovery that Ks, BBs, and HRs are a better predictor of ERA than ERA gives devout believers an edge. A huge edge.
@291
It’s no worse than asserting that a pitcher hustles!
beedee, Im guessing Moylan
they were both up but, either will do
now now soriano hustles off the mound when he pitches well…even throws in a little skip on the foul line. i don’t see chipper doing that
Who restrained Hudson? I missed it.
Phillies lost
nice!
Does hustling in non competitive situations count?
That stings a bit, doesn’t it, Andruw?
Teixiera kept Hudson away
I would have liked to see that. Oh well.
it wasnt that big of a deal, hudson had a few choice words for him. tex stopped Hudson about half way from the mound to 1st and Hudson turned around
mets scored 5 in the 9th, the Pirates have now scored 4 in the 9th…10-8 Mets
good play KJ
Nady just struck out swinging to end the game on a ball that was literally head high.
good play kelly
Nice play KJ!
Huddy only 94 pitches, does he finish it? Or does Big Bob come in?
7-8-9 due up in the 9th should help
If Hudson’s trying for a complete game, I think I’ll flip out.
please no, huddy will lose his shit if bob takes another game from him.
Wickman’s gotta be tired after last night – he threw almost 40 pitches didnt he? I let Hudson try it.
Do the Braves have a CG this year?
Huddy is out, good game
Nope.
Big Bob for the ninth. The last two times Huddy tried for a CG, Wickman blew the leads. But now Thor is pinching, so there. Big Bob for the ninth.
Jeremy, NO
No complete game again.
Easy K for Chulk.
no way Thorman has a better shot to get a hit here than Hudson
avery,
*laughs* Yep.
Ladies and gents, our former everyday first baseman.
Butterbean is up and throwing
I wouldn’t have been opposed to having Hudson hit yet still have Big Bob come in
why wouldnt Willie use the same bat that he’s used all night? He now has a black bat…Renty also does that, he brings out that bright red one in certain situations. Any idea
Eh, the last time Hudson went into the ninth against the Giants didn’t go so well.
No complete games for the Braves. They’re one of only five teams. The other four teams: Nationals, Marlins, Rangers and Royals. Three last place teams and another sub-.500 team.
Coincidence that so many bad teams have no complete games? Doubtful.
It’s the right move.
Dan,
Don’t you think it’s possible that the Braves could buck that trend? Sheesh. The Braves aren’t as bad as any of those teams purely because of their offense. Do they need more pitching? Sure they do. Can they possibly get by without the complete games? Sure!
great KJ has fallen into one of his slumps
Kim released. Who didn’t see that coming?
Better than us taking a chance on him, eh?
Why is that the right move? His pitch count is low, relatively.
I’m going to go out on a limb and say that in 2007, lack of CG is not exactly diagnostic of a bad staff.
Hudson hasn’t done well in the ninth inning and it’s a hot night in which he ran the bases quite a bit. Plus, I’m sure his ninth inning struggles are in his mind and won’t help.
i feel my wicknoia flaring up again
Remember the last two times he tried to get a CG? Better to throw Wickman out there right now.
Orlando Hernandez threw 130 pitches yesterday. Is Hudson really worn out.
I think the Braves can buck the trend, yes. But it’s still saying something about the starting rotation that it’s mid-August and no one has a complete game.
beedee,
Not me. He’s got a good situation.
Whatever. I cannot believe he is back in there… after last night’s antics.
i hope you’re right Sam
Gammons on B-Ball Tonight:
Who is the best pitcher in baseball, Beckett or Bedard?
What about Santana? Hudson? Shouldn’t they get a mention? I think he’s having another stroke.
Dan,
The Braves are bucking the trend right now. They’re seven games better than the Marlins and in the playoff hunt despite the complete lacking of starters finishing games.
I agree Dan. I don’t think Huddy should throw 130, but he’s at 94. Let him start the inning – it’s a 3-run lead. If he lets the first runner on, then yank him for Moylan, not Wickman. Why is this so hard?
It’s a confidence builder if anything. Not that Wickman didn’t have troubles, but a few missed calls by the home plate ump didn’t help anything.
i’m not gonna say i told you so…yet
Jeff K –
It’s 3 pitchers right now. Bedard is one of them; Santana and Peavy are the other two. That Beckett is in this conversation is another reason why ESPN sucks. I can’t begin to believe Gammon is the person spewing such nonsense.
Gammons was quoting someone else. It might have been Bobby, actually. I can’t really remember.
quit messing around and throw strikes, you’ve got a 3 run lead
Oh boy, it’s starting.
That walk was a killer.
Get.
Wickman.
Out.
Of.
There.
Meanwhile, Chris Young, who is the 2nd-best pitcher on his team and possibly one of the five best in baseball, struck out the side to begin the game. I remember when we used to have dominance like that… I’d take him over Beckett too.
give this guy the hook while you still can
I hate BLOB Wickman.
can Wickman really blow another game for Hudson here?
Where’s Kolb when you need him?
please not this again…
COME ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why Soriano and no Moylan?
Oh man. Optimism is a killer in these games.
If Wickman blows this game, we might lose two pitchers because Huddy could be in jail.
NOT BENGIE MOLINA
hey thank you Andruw!!
That was too close.
agreed. At what point does confidence-builder turn into morale crusher? Didn’t the Braves try to instill such confidence in Reitsma?
oh, ok.
Wickman sucks.
@350
No, Gammons was asking a rhetoical question. He said it’s either Beckett ot Bedard. No mention of Santana, Huddy, or Peavy (good reminder Adam M).
and gamecast had that over the fence
jeez louweez, i just about puked on that one.
Wow, Andruw just saved Blob’s fat a– for now. Thank GOD.
There, see?
ball game, okay breathe now
Wickmania!
Yeah, enough of this “ideal situation for Wickman” BS. The man is tired, out of shape, and old. We can’t do this in the postseason.
You still suck, fatso.
If he keeps pitching, there definitely won’t be a postseason.
The 8th and 9th innings are stressful for Braves fans. It’s been rough the last few years.
Thank God, but I am effing sick of these ugly saves. He’s beyond unreliable as our closer. Stop this madness, Bobby.
Gammons said if he could choose any pitcher to start game seven of the world series, he’d take Josh Beckett. Call me biased, but I’d take Smoltz over anyone else.
Alex – Bobby is a great manager, no doubt, but he is partly responsible for this madness.
well, there’s a win but i still don’t trust butterbean any farther than the entire brave’s journal crew can throw him.
Are we ready for a closer by committee? (I just had a Ken Ray flashback).
Good win, way to get lucky Bob.
As or Gammons, I’m about 90% sure he mentioned talking to Bobby and discussing it with him. He said something about how it meant a lot that one of the best talent evaluators he knew was so high on Bedard. Then he said something about how he asked a bunch of guys who they wanted to start the seventh game of the WS and they mostly said Beckett.
Well, I blame the camera on that one. I felt uneasy, but just gauge how Andruw is looking. He wasn’t looking up and over, he was just looking up. 😛 I still think it was the right move, because I’m convinced that if Huddy tryed for the CG, the worst would have happened.
Everybody say, “Thank you Andruw”.
I love Gammons, and I will forever give him a pass because everything after the stroke came, um, after a stroke, but that is a crazy crazy thing to say.
Thank you, Andruw.
Beckett would be his top choice? Are you serious??? I can think of 6 or 7 pitchers I would take over him in a game 7 situation
@385
Are you watching the same B-Ball Tonight? Tonight? Having a stroke with Peter?
Thank you very much, Andruw. We love your defense.
Leave Gammons alone, poor guy.
Brian Jordan is pronouncing Mark’s name “Tex-share-a”.
btw, Brian Jordan is terrible on Braves live…terrible, I cant watch it anymore
Sam,
yes heard him say that also
I agree, poor Peter. But he’s responsible for what he says on tv. Or at least ESPN is responsible for putting him on tv.
Yes, the same Baseball Tonight where Peter Gammons has been reporting everyone else’s opinions for the last 100 years. I don’t intend to demean your otherwise classy stroke comment, but are you sure you should be saying such things after (incredibly) including Tim Hudson in a best pitchers in the game discussion while omitting Jake Peavy?
You know, it’s still not half as crazy as what comes out Phillips or Kruk’s mouth, so maybe it has nothing to do with the stroke. Maybe Disney is making them all crazy.
Top Pitchers in the game
Peavy, Young, Bedard, Verlander, Santana, Beckett, Webb, Hamels, Oswalt, Smoltz, Hudson, Lackey, Zambrano, and Harang… I would say that these are the true aces in the game right now.
Other pitchers like Kazmir, Carmona, Dice K and Hernandez are 2nd tier #1’s
Im probably missing a few
anyone now that Halladay has 5 CG’s this year, thats stupid good. His era is a little high this year at 3.99
Peter said that Wells clear waivers tomorrow and that the Braves are interested. Take it for what its worth
also says that we are interested in Towers and he may end up there either now or next year
David15 —
Right, I said Peavy belongs. And so does Huddy.
Hudson
13-5, 39 BB, 106 SO, 3.04 ERA, .248 BAA, 1.15 WHIP
Bedard
12-4, 52 BB, 207 SO, 2.98 ERA, .210 BA, 1.08 WHIP
Sit down.
Recap is now up. My service was down there so I wrote it offline, forgive me if I made an error or two working from memory.
You said Peavy belongs after you omitted him. And now you say Hudson belongs just before posting stats showing he’s clearly inferior to Bedard, especially when taking into consideration the difficulty of their respective leagues? I guess you think that’s enlightening?
Stand up.
new thread
Take it to new thread.