408 thoughts on “Game Thread: August 15, Giants at Braves”

  1. from the previous thread, thanks for the faux Morgan/Miller call on Bobby’s ejection…that was classically funny.

    Re: Andruw injury

    I didn’t want to “get in trouble” with the Andruw love-fest crowd, but I also feel strongly he & Boras are milking a fake injury to find any way possible to get Jones that extra $ this winter.

    Doesn’t matter, there’s still a few suckers, er, teams that will overpay him…the Rangers, Cubs and Nats are the 3 that come to mind. Since the Yankees are still weighed down from overspending on Johnny Damon, I don’t see Cashman going after Jones.

  2. Alex R.: I’m not part of the “Andruw love-fest crowd,” but I don’t think he is faking an injury. I don’t think Andruw is that selfish.

  3. From Jim Callis’ chat for those of you keeping your eye on the Braves most recent draft:

    Andrew (Athens, GA): Jim, will Josh Fields be closing the the Bulldogs next year or has Atlanta agreed to his demands?

    SportsNation Jim Callis: I think he’ll be back at my alma mater.

  4. I am an unashamed Andruw fan. I’m not certain he’ll command much more on his next contract than he’s getting now, because he really has stunk it up offensively.

    If we can sign him for six to eight years at $15M per or less, I hope he finishes his career as a Brave. The boy still plays a very good centerfield.

  5. Alex,

    I don’t know what “Andruw love-fest crowd” you are referring to, but, in fairness, you have to evaluate his body of work over several years, not just this year. It’s not unreasonable that Andruw would return to his old form next year, ie, .26–.265 with 40-45 home runs and playing great defense. I’m certainly not advocating that Andruw is a great player–I’ve always thought he was overrated and would rather sign Teixera–but you are sort of exhibiting Andruw hatred for a guy that, for all his flaws, plays his ass off and has played through a lot of injuries. Whether or not he is using his elbow as an excuse, it’s pretty clear that the years of diving for balls have taken their toll on his body. I think Andruw deserves a little more respect than to be accused of faking an injury.

  6. JD,

    Boras wants his client to get as maximum amount of $ as possible and claiming an injury might help him recover millions. I would not be shocked.

  7. I would also disagree with Andruw playing as hard as I see Chipper, Francouer, McCann, Smoltz and several other of our stars play–guys I always see hustling. You do remember Bobby once yanked ‘Druw out of a game for not hustling?

  8. All kidding aside, Boras isn’t quite the anti-christ. I know many people to many things to get money, but I just don’t think faking an injury while your team is in the middle of a penant race is one of those things. Maybe I am naive, but AJ is a professional athlete and as such uber competitive. Notwithstanding Boras’ alleged immorality.

    I have to agree with Marc @ 7.

  9. JD,

    Have you ever actually SEEN Boras and the anti Christ at the same time? So you can’t say that with complete certainty….:-)

  10. I think Jones is a great defensive player. Offensively, I think this year is more of an outlier than the true Jones. (An off the cuff guess: he’s around 720 ops now; I think he’ll be about 100 points better next year.)

    So I’m no Andruw hater, but I think signing him for 6-8 years at $15m per year is way too risky.

  11. I don’t know that I would call it faking an injury, but it might be a case of making an injury seem like much more than it is. That’s still a harsh thing to say about someone.

  12. Alex, good point. Come to think of that I’ve never seen Osama and Boras at the same time either. Maybe he is Vick’s tie to Iran and Al Qaeda.

  13. JDMaker1,

    I think we have to assume that’s the case until someone offers conclusive proof to the contrary.

  14. He’s having an off year whether due to injury or not. It happens. There’s every reason to think he’ll hit more like the Andruw of ’05-’06 next year. Somebody will pay him at or close to what Boras wants. It won’t be the Braves.

  15. For our friends on the Gulf Coast, might want to think about taking a vacation next weekend.

  16. Justin,

    I think that’s a very fair way to put it–I can agree with that. Faking is harsh, I know, so it’s fairer to say “exaggerating”. Good call.

  17. I myself am looking forward to the inexpensive signing of Coco Crisp or Randy Winn to fill the center field void and saving the big bucks for Teixeira.

  18. That was what, 8 or 9 years ago that Bobby yanked him. I think the statute of limitations on that offense has run off. He certainly doesn’t jake it in the outfield; if you don’t run out a ground ball, everyone sees it but it would be easy to ease off a little on a ball in the gap, not dive, etc., no one would know the difference. This is certainly nothing against Francoeur, but he makes a big show of hustling. Pete Rose did the same thing. That doesn’t necessarily mean he is trying harder than Andruw. And, slow guys like McCann always look like they are hustling because they have to run so hard to make it to the next base. Plus, if you start going there, you have to mention Henry Aaron, who never LOOKED like he was playing as hard as Willie Mays. That was just his style. It’s amazing to me that I’m defending Andruw because I’m not that much of a fan, but fair is fair.

    It’s fair to argue–which I do–that Andruw is an extremely undisciplined hitter who has wasted a lot of his gifts over the years and that he is not worth what the Braves would have to pay to keep him. But, to say he is faking an injury or doesn’t hustle is, to me, beyond the pale. And I don’t think anyone was saying that in 2005. I understand that people don’t like it when he seems to smile after striking out; it’s much more satisfying to see a guy curse or smash his helmet. But’s that a matter of style, not substance.

  19. Next year and for at least a few more years, Andruw will be a better centerfielder — not hitter — than Frenchy, Willie, B.Jones, or the other options touted here recently.

    The Braves success in the 1990’s was built on pitching and defense. To win, you’ve got to catch the ball, and very few outfielders do it as well as Andruw.

    The kid’s 30. He’s still got several productive years ahead of him. I agree he needs to be more coachable offensively, but he plays great defense almost every day. I’d rather have him than Beltran or Hunter or Cameron, but I’d also like to have Peavy, Oswalt, Beckett and Zambrano.

    If I had to choose, which I don’t, between Andruw and Zambrano, I’d take Zambrano or any other pitcher of his ilk. I just think it’s more likely that we could re-sign Andruw than get one of the aforementioned stud pitchers.

    Obviously, I like Andruw, even as bad as he is; and I trust JS to give Bobby tools to compete. Somebody will play centerfield. If Jones goes, I’ll miss him; but I’ll still be a Braves fan.

  20. with our budget would you rather have Andruw at 5/15 per or Tex at 7/22-23 per. Both will get that if not more on the open market. Or not have either and focus on stud pitchers and hope we get cheaper replacements?

  21. Rowand is having a career year, but he also gives himself some freak injuries. He’s a very good defensive guy, but he might be playing himself into some big bucks also

  22. I’m certainly not going to defend Andruw’s offense (or offensive) play this summer. But, it’s pretty clear that this year is the proverbial outlier, at least offensively. He’s still one of the best defensively, and that’s where his value will have to be for the rest of the year. And Bobby ought to hit him 8th at this point, since virtually every starter (note the term, cause as bad as he is, I’d rather him than Woodward or Thorman) is better this year.

    And for those that like justice, know that it is going to cost him $$ (which is part of the system), just as it would have cost teams had he been hitting this year, with say a .950 ops at this point. That said, I don’t think that I could accuse him of faking it.

  23. If it was a choice of Andruw or Tex as opposed to Santana, I would obviously take Santana. Maybe even Zambrano although his temperament makes that more problematic. Maybe even a Harang if he was available and certainly a Peavey. Other than that, I would choose Tex because he is and will be a much better hitter than Andruw and I think it would be easier to replace Andruw’s defense. (I’m not saying it would be just as good.)

    It’s probably more dangerous to give big contracts, especially for a lot of years, to pitchers. You would do it for Santana, but teams generally get burned with long pitcher contracts, unless the pitcher is very young.

  24. Andruw and Boras will take arbitration and try again the next year (just like Maddux). IF Andruw comes back to form, he will have left too much on the table.

    Of course, that will mess with JS’s work big time (like it did with Maddux / Millwood / Estrada). However, I bet he has a good plant for that now.

  25. It wouldn’t be the worst thing if Andruw accepted arbitration; the Braves would get a year at possibly below-market rates. But I would be surprised if JS really tries to sign Andruw long-term because he most likely has already seen Andruw’s peak (2005). It’s unlikely that, even if this year is a fluke, that Andruw is going to get better at this point in his career. So, assuming it’s one or the other, Tex is a better hitter at a position that the Braves have been unable to adequately fill for years. And I think it’s easier to replace Andruw’s defense, especially considering that it is likely to decline as he gets older. Of course, if they can’t get Tex to do an extension the Braves are sort of screwed.

  26. How in the hell does one hustle while pitching?! Does that even make sense? I see Chipper taking it easy on the way to 1B quite a bit.
    How hard is it to log a new alias after getting banned? There are a few things that need to be said that would probably get me banned.

  27. I think there’s good chance that Andruw accepts arbitration this year, too. Not that it’s a slam dunk, but someone coming off a year like he is having stands to gain a lot by taking a “mulligan” year by accepting arbitration (pardon the mixed terms)

  28. That was what, 8 or 9 years ago that Bobby yanked him. I think the statute of limitations on that offense has run off.

    You would think so, but not with Alex. Andruw has been very durable in his career as a quick check of the ‘Games’ column in his stat line will prove. Over the years he has no doubt played through any number of injuries but still managed to put up one Andruw-like year after the next. This season he finally runs up against an injury he can’t really play through, and a (probably small) portion of his team’s “fans” accuse him of faking it. Obviously ridiculous.

    Hopefully his next fan base his a little more appreciative.

  29. Oh yeah, I have a fantasy football league too, that has a few spots open.
    League ID: 184401
    PW: braves

  30. I think there’s good chance that Andruw accepts arbitration this year, too.

    Personally I would be surprised if we offer arbitration. I imagine JS has some pretty carefully laid plans for the offseason and doesn’t want them derailed by a sudden Maddux-like arbitration surprise.

  31. How hard is it to log a new alias after getting banned? There are a few things that need to be said that would probably get me banned.

    I imagine Mac would ban your IP address, so it would probably be a bit of a pain. Just let it go, he’ll be gone in a few months and hopefully they can find a new, more worthy target.

  32. anyone know that Ortiz has only given up 2ER in his last 14IP. has he decided to start trying to pitch well again?

  33. do we lose the draft picks if we dont offer arb?

    We would not get the draft picks without offering arb. So that’s the trade off. Is the risk of him accepting and screwing your budget great enough that you are willing to not get the draft picks. JS has played this on a case by case basis in the past, usually offering arb but in some cases where he really couldn’t afford for the guy to accept, he didn’t offer.

  34. I don’t think he will accept, he is still the best CF on the market outside of Ichiro, on reputation alone. I don’t think JS has anything to worry about in offering arb.

    On a different note, for those who are advertising your football leagues, you might want to mention which site you are at, ESPN, Yahoo, CBS. Just a thought.

  35. has he decided to start trying to pitch well again?

    Not sure where you got that stat but he’s only pitched once since June 4th. A so-so 5 IP, 2 ER outing against those mighty Pirates.

    I will use this opportunity to point out that Andruw is 10-21 career against Russ.

  36. Ohh yeah thanks Justin.the one i said was Yahoo. I somehow like yahoo better than Espn although Espn has a better user interface and update the stats without having to purchase those extra things.
    Anyone know if CBS one is any good??

  37. We need those Mighty pirates 2nite to beat the mets i doubt it though Maine Vs Morris?? whats the chances its too bad that whenever we decide to win the Mets and Phillies decide to do the same…well all we can do is try to do our part.

  38. We would really be crazy not to offer AJ arbitration. At worst, if he accepts the arbitration, you get him again in his “contract year” (not that it worked so great this year, but in theory…); you get to compare this awful year in setting the salary; and the one year bridge with AJ in CF in 2008 gets you closer to Schaeffer or Brandon Jones as a replacement.

  39. We would really be crazy not to offer AJ arbitration.

    You are probably right. After the Maddux/Millwood for Estrada fiasco JS starting being really conservative with offering arbitration – for example he didn’t offer Sheffield. If the increase in payroll is really real, he may not have to play things so carefully.

  40. Sorry for a little distraction … this from Matt Diaz about last night’s game:

    “Wickman’s as solid a closer as it comes,” Diaz said. “We thought we had it wrapped up, but when they tied it up and he shut them down with the bases loaded, that was huge. Him getting us back in the dugout tied was huge. He girded up his loins and pitched unbelievably there.”

    Pretty funny, but, the last thing I want to think about is Bob Wickman’s loins.

  41. Lineups:

    Davis CF
    Vizquel SS
    Winn RF
    Bonds LF
    Klesko 1B
    Durham 2B
    Feliz 3B
    Rodriguez C

    Harris LF
    Johnson 2B
    Chip 3B
    Tex 1B
    McCann C
    Francoeur RF
    Andruw CF
    Yutility SS

    Pretty standard stuff.

  42. I really hate the Mets and why did the Pirates trade for Morris? Please explain that one

    Yep, Andruw is batting a cool .476 against Ortiz, but with no HR’s

  43. I saw where Duke is going to miss the rest of the season as well. It would suck to be a Pirates fan. They have such a nice ballpark too. One in which I saw Scott Thorman hit two home runs in one game earlier this year…it seems like another season.

  44. oooooooohhhhhhhhh. I didn’t know that Angel Hernandez was working this series? He’s at 1B tonight.

    A.) Does Bobby got ejected twice in two games
    B.) Does that mean Hernandez will be behind the plate tomorrow?

  45. how about this scenario, bases loaded two outs and the pitcher Redding, gives the Nats a two run double. 2-0 Nats

  46. #55 – I thought they rotated around the bases, so I have no idea what’s going on unless the guy who was behind the plate last night is sick tonight or something.

  47. nice play Tex,

    whats the average age for the Giants? Im thinking 65, are these guys getting SSI also

  48. how about this scenario, bases loaded two outs and the pitcher Redding, gives the Nats a two run double. 2-0 Nats

    Couldn’t handle the running. Werth goes yard and it’s 2-1.

  49. I remember the walks. They are a little more fun when you are on the other side of things.

  50. It’s so weird hearing Simpson talk about OPS. I mean, it’s cool, but it’s weird.

    Sciambi has rubbed off on him.

  51. Remember that year Russ Ortiz started the first game of the playoffs? I wanted to cry when I found that out.

  52. I bet you every single point of that OBP was gained via ground balls through the hole between 1B & 2B.

  53. yes! only one out! .. we still have a chance this inning. thanks Andruw for the non-DP!

  54. while Andruw is looking terrible against Ortiz, Diaz is riding the pine

    How did Ortiz ever win 21 games period

  55. Because Andruw has 73 RBIs and Diaz only has 33. Do the math, csg.

    Sorry Stu, I stole your joke.

  56. How did Ortiz ever win 21 games period

    Incredible run support. That 2003 team led the NL in runs scored, batting average, HR, slugging, and OPS.

  57. For the record that’s Redding driving in runs in the Philly game, Morris drove in a run in the Mets game, and Hudson here.

    Remember this next time we have the DH/pitchers can’t hit/are boring discussion.

  58. Did Harris go see Diaz’ optometrist? Have any other players ever had this career path? Is this the real Willie Harris?

  59. Didn’t every starter in that 2003 lineup have an above OPS+ over 100? That was a crazy good lineup.

  60. Correction on 2003:

    B-Ref says only Fick was below 100 OPS+, but if you replace Fick with Julio, everyone was over 100.

  61. Isn’t it great that the best thing our manager does is get thrown out of games? Give’em hell Bobby!

  62. The 2003 team was the most fun to watch in recent memory. Javy and Shef were bananas that year.

  63. sonic commercials are one of a kind..

    loved the “gotta go strong to the hole or dont go at all” and “sieze the burrito”

  64. I asked last night and got no response, who becomes the acting manager when Cox is out? Is it Cadahia or McDowell? In the past it went to the bench coach Corrales but it seemed like McDowell was making the pitching changes? Do they split duties or something? I need information!

  65. McDowell probably makes the pitching change. Bobby is still managing. . . he’s just sitting on a chair down the tunnel.

  66. Yeah, Swings. My understanding is that Bobby still technically manages from the clubhouse and that ejections are more of a technicality. However, I believe the pitching coach is supposed to take over when the manager is kicked out.

  67. I think it would be great if they made the manager go sit with some of the opposing team’s fans after he gets thrown out like they do in English soccer.

  68. Do any of you guys get the MLB extra innings package ? I live out here in California and I am a big Braves fan. They’re blacking out the game because they’re playing the worthless Giants. I thought since the Braves are the home team that they could not black out the game. I only have these black out problems when they play the Giants or the A’s in interleague. It does not matter if the Braves are home or away. What a bunch of BS. Anyone else have problems like these in your area ? Thanks.

  69. Mailmain, on the MLB.TV website, there is a place where you can type in your ZIP and it will tell you what teams will be blacked out. Unfortunately, home and away doesn’t matter.

    Even on TBS, if the Braves play the Pirates, Reds, or Cleveland, it’s blackout out for me in Ohio.

  70. Well, the Pirates ran up Maine’s pitchcount and he’s out of there after five. But they are still down 5-3. Mota’s in.

  71. I’m watching the Giants broadcast, and the ump from last night’s game, Barrett, just kept walking toward Klesko, egging him on.

  72. Yeah, all the Diamondbacks games are blacked out for me on Extra Innings, and I don’t even live in Arizona.

  73. Joe is a moron, it never stops

    The trivia question is: What hall of fame player used a different bat in all of his 2,351 hits

    Joe’s answer: maybe its a pitcher that gave up that many hits

  74. I love that they used Orlando Cepeda as the answer to the question considering his arrest in May for speeding and marijuana possession.

  75. Indeed. Phils are going to put a big number up here in the seventh.

    The Pirates send the heart of the order up in the seventh, down 5-4.

  76. I’m not able to get the game either. Can someone tell me if Hudson has balked twice in this game? If so, that’s probably the first time that’s happened to a pitcher in a while.

  77. Tim is making his normal move to 1st and Angel has called two balks moves, he says his knee is moving or buckling, but it has to do that to make the turn and throw

  78. Mike Krukow, the Giants’ TV broadcaster, says there’s no way Hudson balked. Didn’t someone on the board last night list Angel Hernandez as one of the worst umpires in the league? With his performance in tonight’s game, he’s left no doubt about just how terrible an umpire he is.

  79. Bochy got tossed for arguing balls and strikes. Angel Hernandez seems to think Hudson is balking every time he throws to first but the replays show nothing.

  80. Remy, See Mr. Swings at #55.

    Thats csg. On Gameday it came after a bunt, so I wasn’t sure.

  81. Kyle B., I joined the game late, so thanks for the heads-up. Looks like Mr. Swings called it right.

  82. Pop quiz: how many balks does Hudson have this season before tonight’s game? How many in his career?

    I’ll post the answer in 5 min or so. If someone has posted this info already–I haven’t read all the posts in the thread–if so sorry.

  83. But let’s bat him lead off because he has “speed.” Am I the only one here who continues to be pissed off by our lineups?

  84. What was Huddy’s response after the second balk call? I ran to the store and all hell broke loose.

  85. Angel Hernandez is hard on everyone. There is no way he should be calling MLB games. He incites confontations with players and managers. He’s the type of guy that will follow a guy towards his own dugout after he has complained about a bad call. You can see how that would not fly with a guy like Cox.

    Thanks for being my homey Kyle B. !

  86. Nationals out of the seventh leading 4-2. Ray King struck out Russell Branyan and Jimmy Rollins with bases loaded and no one out and another relief pitcher got Iguchi.

  87. I like Willie leading off because he’s a good contact hitter. Its the base stealing attempts that need to go, but that may not even be his call.

    Either way, I prefer Escobar leading off.

  88. Missed Harris’ nonsense fortunately.

    The Nats managed to get out of it with our old friend Ray King being the centerpiece. Struck out Branyan and Rollins with the bases loaded. Still 4-2 Nats.

    Extra Innings rocks.

  89. Yeah, it’s getting ridiculous the number of times Willie gets caught stealing. That’s just dumb. There ought to be a Braves rule: no more running once you’ve been caught 5 times in a row or 10 times in less than 30 attempts.

  90. Man, I can’t believe we are going to find a way to lose a matchup between Tim Hudson and Russ Ortiz. This team is beyond maddening.

  91. I kind of loathe him, and I’m all for throwing at him as much as possible, but that Bonds can hit. Damn.

  92. http://www.theonion.com/content/node/48895

    “…they’ll immediately know that this sequence of characters—F*#!—reflects history’s attitude toward not only the conditions under which he was able to hit his home runs, but also the historical implications he had on the game and its records, the relationship he had with the media and fans during his momentous chase, and just the general atmosphere of baseball in an era he will come to embody…”

  93. Hudson–no balks this year prior to tonight. Only 3 in his career (couldn’t have been 2 in any single game b/c the three came in three different seasons). Yet somehow crummy umpy Hernandez calls 2 tonight.

    Let’s just hope Hudson keeps his head in the game and the offense wakes up against Ortiz.

  94. Actually Kyle, I texted the same thing to a friend of mine a couple innings ago. That was more in reference to my fantasy team, but it’s becoming a way of life this summer. It’s really more of a love-hate thing, though.

  95. By “baseball” I mean, “when Barry Bonds hits a home run off Tim Hudson to tie the game”

  96. Right now, I am far more upset that we have managed 2 effing runs against crappy ass Russ Ortiz then even that Hudson has allowed them to tie it. What the hell is wrong w/ this offense.


  97. Let me see if I have the right:

    Braves are okay against great pitchers

    Braves are great against average pitchers

    Braves are bad against bad pitchers

  98. Exactly. Besides bad pitchers, it’s pitchers no one has ever heard of, pitchers the team has never faced, or anyone young, unheard of, and the team has never faced.

  99. I say with no one on, just turn and throw one at Hernandez. Then ask him if that was a balk or not

  100. At the top of the tv broadcast FSN said the Braves 7.1 runs per game since July 29 was the highest in the NL. Too bad it’s only been good for roughly .500 baseball.

  101. @223

    That reminds me of how I used to make pitching changes in MVP Baseball. I’d just intentionally bean someone to get thrown out.

  102. Mac and csg–having Huddy go after Hernandez does have some appeal, but the starting pitching is way too thin for him to get a suspension.

  103. Maybe Chino and Glenn could team up on Hernandez. I mean, if Tim beat him up he’d probably get suspended, which would be totally unfair, but coaches? Eh.

  104. The best the Braves can do now against Ortiz is 4ER in 5+ innings. The Braves would have to get both those runners on though.

  105. At the risk of getting the Andruw wars started (if 233 doesn’t :-) ), maybe Andruw can have a run at Hernandez.

  106. Bases loaded, no outs, Andruw up … oh, no.

    Correction …

    … thank God for a wild pitch.

  107. That should be an RBI. If Acheson didn’t fear Andruw’s bat he wouldn’t have thrown one so far outside of the strike zone.

  108. OMG. Andruw got a clutch hit.

    And this is one night after he got a walk and Soriano didn’t allow a homer.

    Maybe our luck is turning around.

  109. The only thing positive we could take out of this season from Andruw Jones is that you will have a great case to demonstrate why RBI mean absolutely nothing.

  110. What stats do people like? It seems to me someone has a criticism for about every stat. I’m not calling anyone out, I’m just curious.

  111. Given the concern about drunk driving etc. I’m surprised Boog and Joe are kidding around about the two guys downing 9 dogs and 9 beers in 9 innings. And to answer Joe’s question about where the guys are going, my guess is they need to pee or puke or both.

  112. so they keep showing the guys with the 9 dogs 9 beers in 9 innings shirts. Joe is loving it, however one guy has finished 9 dogs and 9 beers in 6 innings….very impressive

  113. I agree with Mac. .OPS is the simplest and almost the best offensive stat so I like it the best.

  114. 9 beers okay, 9 nine ballpark hotdogs…he’ll be feeling that burning sensation a little later

  115. The followers of the Sabermetrics religion don’t care for: batting average, ERA, RBIs and stolen bases.

  116. There’s a criticism about every stat because no stat can measure everything.

    Runs Created comes close, and OPS+ is a good approximation, but nothing’s perfect.

    For pitching, most people like some variant of defense-independent ERA (a combination of Ks, BBs, and HRs).

  117. If the lead increases, I’d like to see Acosta in another game. He looked sharp in his first outing.

  118. I have to say the “sabermetrics religion” has won me a few fantasy leagues. In particular the discovery that Ks, BBs, and HRs are a better predictor of ERA than ERA gives devout believers an edge. A huge edge.

  119. now now soriano hustles off the mound when he pitches well…even throws in a little skip on the foul line. i don’t see chipper doing that

  120. it wasnt that big of a deal, hudson had a few choice words for him. tex stopped Hudson about half way from the mound to 1st and Hudson turned around

  121. Wickman’s gotta be tired after last night – he threw almost 40 pitches didnt he? I let Hudson try it.

  122. Big Bob for the ninth. The last two times Huddy tried for a CG, Wickman blew the leads. But now Thor is pinching, so there. Big Bob for the ninth.

  123. why wouldnt Willie use the same bat that he’s used all night? He now has a black bat…Renty also does that, he brings out that bright red one in certain situations. Any idea

  124. No complete games for the Braves. They’re one of only five teams. The other four teams: Nationals, Marlins, Rangers and Royals. Three last place teams and another sub-.500 team.

    Coincidence that so many bad teams have no complete games? Doubtful.

  125. Dan,

    Don’t you think it’s possible that the Braves could buck that trend? Sheesh. The Braves aren’t as bad as any of those teams purely because of their offense. Do they need more pitching? Sure they do. Can they possibly get by without the complete games? Sure!

  126. I’m going to go out on a limb and say that in 2007, lack of CG is not exactly diagnostic of a bad staff.

  127. Hudson hasn’t done well in the ninth inning and it’s a hot night in which he ran the bases quite a bit. Plus, I’m sure his ninth inning struggles are in his mind and won’t help.

  128. Orlando Hernandez threw 130 pitches yesterday. Is Hudson really worn out.

    I think the Braves can buck the trend, yes. But it’s still saying something about the starting rotation that it’s mid-August and no one has a complete game.

  129. Gammons on B-Ball Tonight:

    Who is the best pitcher in baseball, Beckett or Bedard?

    What about Santana? Hudson? Shouldn’t they get a mention? I think he’s having another stroke.

  130. Dan,

    The Braves are bucking the trend right now. They’re seven games better than the Marlins and in the playoff hunt despite the complete lacking of starters finishing games.

  131. I agree Dan. I don’t think Huddy should throw 130, but he’s at 94. Let him start the inning – it’s a 3-run lead. If he lets the first runner on, then yank him for Moylan, not Wickman. Why is this so hard?

  132. It’s a confidence builder if anything. Not that Wickman didn’t have troubles, but a few missed calls by the home plate ump didn’t help anything.

  133. Jeff K –

    It’s 3 pitchers right now. Bedard is one of them; Santana and Peavy are the other two. That Beckett is in this conversation is another reason why ESPN sucks. I can’t begin to believe Gammon is the person spewing such nonsense.

  134. Gammons was quoting someone else. It might have been Bobby, actually. I can’t really remember.

  135. Meanwhile, Chris Young, who is the 2nd-best pitcher on his team and possibly one of the five best in baseball, struck out the side to begin the game. I remember when we used to have dominance like that… I’d take him over Beckett too.

  136. If Wickman blows this game, we might lose two pitchers because Huddy could be in jail.

  137. agreed. At what point does confidence-builder turn into morale crusher? Didn’t the Braves try to instill such confidence in Reitsma?

  138. @350

    No, Gammons was asking a rhetoical question. He said it’s either Beckett ot Bedard. No mention of Santana, Huddy, or Peavy (good reminder Adam M).

  139. Yeah, enough of this “ideal situation for Wickman” BS. The man is tired, out of shape, and old. We can’t do this in the postseason.

  140. The 8th and 9th innings are stressful for Braves fans. It’s been rough the last few years.

  141. Thank God, but I am effing sick of these ugly saves. He’s beyond unreliable as our closer. Stop this madness, Bobby.

  142. Gammons said if he could choose any pitcher to start game seven of the world series, he’d take Josh Beckett. Call me biased, but I’d take Smoltz over anyone else.

  143. Alex – Bobby is a great manager, no doubt, but he is partly responsible for this madness.

  144. well, there’s a win but i still don’t trust butterbean any farther than the entire brave’s journal crew can throw him.

  145. Good win, way to get lucky Bob.

    As or Gammons, I’m about 90% sure he mentioned talking to Bobby and discussing it with him. He said something about how it meant a lot that one of the best talent evaluators he knew was so high on Bedard. Then he said something about how he asked a bunch of guys who they wanted to start the seventh game of the WS and they mostly said Beckett.

  146. Well, I blame the camera on that one. I felt uneasy, but just gauge how Andruw is looking. He wasn’t looking up and over, he was just looking up. :P I still think it was the right move, because I’m convinced that if Huddy tryed for the CG, the worst would have happened.

  147. I love Gammons, and I will forever give him a pass because everything after the stroke came, um, after a stroke, but that is a crazy crazy thing to say.

  148. Beckett would be his top choice? Are you serious??? I can think of 6 or 7 pitchers I would take over him in a game 7 situation

  149. I agree, poor Peter. But he’s responsible for what he says on tv. Or at least ESPN is responsible for putting him on tv.

  150. Yes, the same Baseball Tonight where Peter Gammons has been reporting everyone else’s opinions for the last 100 years. I don’t intend to demean your otherwise classy stroke comment, but are you sure you should be saying such things after (incredibly) including Tim Hudson in a best pitchers in the game discussion while omitting Jake Peavy?

  151. You know, it’s still not half as crazy as what comes out Phillips or Kruk’s mouth, so maybe it has nothing to do with the stroke. Maybe Disney is making them all crazy.

  152. Top Pitchers in the game

    Peavy, Young, Bedard, Verlander, Santana, Beckett, Webb, Hamels, Oswalt, Smoltz, Hudson, Lackey, Zambrano, and Harang… I would say that these are the true aces in the game right now.

    Other pitchers like Kazmir, Carmona, Dice K and Hernandez are 2nd tier #1’s

    Im probably missing a few

  153. anyone now that Halladay has 5 CG’s this year, thats stupid good. His era is a little high this year at 3.99

  154. Peter said that Wells clear waivers tomorrow and that the Braves are interested. Take it for what its worth

  155. David15 —

    Right, I said Peavy belongs. And so does Huddy.

    13-5, 39 BB, 106 SO, 3.04 ERA, .248 BAA, 1.15 WHIP
    12-4, 52 BB, 207 SO, 2.98 ERA, .210 BA, 1.08 WHIP

    Sit down.

  156. You said Peavy belongs after you omitted him. And now you say Hudson belongs just before posting stats showing he’s clearly inferior to Bedard, especially when taking into consideration the difficulty of their respective leagues? I guess you think that’s enlightening?

    Stand up.

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