ESPN.com – MLB – Box Score – Braves at Marlins
Well, one down, only eight or ten to go. The Braves still suck, but possibly suck slightly less with Reitsma going on the DL (Phil Stockman will take his place) with a mystery injury. I was rooting for “inability to pitch”. I was about to start the “When will Reitsma go?” contest.
The game? Why bother? Smoltz gave up a solo homer in the first but kept it close from there. Unfortunately, the Braves were leaving runners left and right while this was going on, and then the Marlins got two more in the fifth. I don’t blame Smoltz. You try pitching down one run every time out. Remlinger allowed an extra run in the eighth just to make it more impossible.
The Braves did get three straight singles leading off the sixth (from Andruw, McCann, and Francoeur) but LaRoche inevitably hit into a double play. I say inevitable, I expected a triple play. The Braves left nine men on base, the Marlins left four. McCann was 3-3 with a walk, and is hitting .368.
This season has gone so far south that it’s actually kind of funny. We Have Become The Royals, everyone. It’s the curse of Dayton Moore.
Being 11 games behind the Mets doesn’t bother me as much, personally, as being five games under .500.
P.S.: LaRoche hit into that double play, but what did Betemit do in the ninth?
I guess he did too, but to be honest I didn’t see it because I was busy trying to drown myself.
Chuck James Watch: 6 IP, 4 H, 1 BB, 7 K. 94 pitches. 2 ground balls and 8 fly balls. Classic James. I hope his help isn’t just too little, too late.
This is so depressing.
Seriously, what the hell must Chuck James do to get Jorge Sosa’s rotation spot? It’s so absurd it’s beyond belief. Jose Lima would end the year with a better record.
They aren’t just being stupid or stubborn with James (at least I don’t think so). He’s been rehabing and I expect him make his next start for Atlanta. If he stays down after that, well . . . I’ll have to start wondering if JS is taking a dive on purpose.
Also, Thor (I’m starting to like that nickname despite myself) hit another homer tonight.
Maybe Langerhans goes on the DL and Thorman comes up. Thorman at 1st and Diaz still in left
More likely Thorman would platoon in left.
When will they put Frenchy on DL for “inability to identify pitches”?
Yeah I figured he would at first, but then LaRoche would keep sucking it up and we could move him to first and let Diaz handle left. Either way they stated Langy has a pulled hip flexor or something like that
Thomson and Sosa the next two days! Is there any over-the-counter medicine that will let you sleep for 48 hours straight. That would help a lot.
Would any of you swap Chipper and Andruw or McCann and Andruw in our current line-up?
At this point, what would it hurt to swap anyone? Andruw is wildly inconsistent, his numbers for the season look ok but on a game by game basis he looks more like the Andruw of two years ago. I think bumping McCann up – if he’s the best hitter, get him more at bats – would be fine. Of course, for Bobby to move Andruw or Chipper from their respective positions it would take a good three year slump; so I don’t see it happening.
I wonder what the conversations in the clubhouse are like right now…
Biff Pocoroba would be an improvement in our current lineup, csg.
With Willis pitching tomorrow, you just know this will get worse.
I am really, really fearful the Red Sox, Yankees and Blue Jays will finish the Braves for this season.
If Willis is pitching tomorrow, then Jordan gets the start.
Hey, at least we stopped the phillys from gaining more ground on the braves. And you in turn feed the fish a win.
Dan, I think the Braves are finished already. For crying out loud, they’re acting like it.
Remy, that was by far the worse thing I have read tonight. Sad thing is, it’s all too true.
Well, great. I had a blast at an AA game ($1 seats right behind home plate), then get home to hear that my friend’s father died and that the Braves still can’t buy a win. The first is obviously a lot worse than the second, but jeez, why do the only bright spots in a game occur when Brian McCann is batting? He’s like a Gulliver among Lilliputians right now. Just astonishing. I’ve really run out of things to say, only that I think the Red Sox are going to roll over the Braves like a runaway train this weekend
Oops, hit “send” too soon. Continuing…
…and this interleague play couldn’t come at a worse time.
I don’t have the same send Franceour to the minors mentality that many of you guys have. I just wasn’t expecting much from him. I knew he wouldn’t get many walks and his production has been about what I expected ( with a slightly lower BA than expected mostly b/c of a horrible start). The point is you can afford a guy like him who has above average run production if you have other guys that are at least hitting at league average. Langy, LaRoche and Giles are all below league average and have been inept all year. Add poor defense, a plethora of strikeouts, the worst bullpen around, and very disappointing starting pitching and frankly we’re lucky to only be 11 games out.
The problem in hitting is with some that I expected to do better. Langerhans, Chipper, Andruw and Giles have all been inconsistent and disappointing, or their power has taken a nosedive. I don’t think anyone expected much out of LaRoche and he has lived up to incredibly low expectations.
Speaking of the Dayton Moore curse, this was on SI.com’s Power Rankings:
If Dayton Moore, the new GM, didn’t know what he was walking into in K.C., he found out when, in his introductory press conference, a couple of nosy radio reporters tried to grill the Royals’ owners about the classless way they had canned ex-GM Allard Baird, so the team pulled the reporters’ credentials.
Like I said before, I’ve heard in a lot of places that the way Allard Baird was treated was just horrible. And I have to assume Moore knew this going in, because other executives definitely did, so I think he’s certifiable for taking the job anyway. Glass is basically like Larry Lucchino, who Moore didn’t want to work for, except that Lucchino is not retarded. But we shall see.
I know that Mac doesn’t like us to get political, but I’ve reached the end of my rope. I’m blaming tonight’s loss on Howard Dean.
Curse you, Howard Dean!
I’m very confused. Didn’t bobby come out and say like 3 days ago he HAD to get betemit in the lineup? and since then, he’s pinch hit twice, once behind pete orr and brian jordan?
Is he crazy, or am I missing something?
The endgame with Baird was pretty unsightly, but if the Royals ownership was truly concerned with putting a quality product on the field they’d have gotten rid of him at least a year and a half ago. The way it ended up happening just confirms how inept they truly are.
Hey, it beats talking about the home team right now…
FIRST WE’RE PLAYING FLORIDA, THEN WE’RE PLAYING BOSTON, THEN WE’RE PLAYING TORONTO, THEN WE”RE PLAYING TAMPA BAY, THEN WE’RE PLAYING NEW YORK…
Sorry AAR (and Mac), I couldn’t resist.
/gotta laugh to keep from crying
Brad, the only thing I can think is they are trying to showcase Giles for a trade. The only problem is every time he plays his value drops! There is no other logical reason
But then why come out and say that about betemit? esp after a game when he went 3-4. Just strikes me as odd.
I think Betemit should START at 2b (or 1b) and be the lead-off hitter. Bench Giles for a little while. His offense and defense is pretty atrocious right now.
Brad and csg,
Same thoughts here. I saw the lineup and knew we would lose. Bobby has made the same moves every time. They bring in the lefty to pitch to Laroche because they really want to pitch to Jordan, waste of space.
I know raoul will disagree, but betemit has been better than giles in every conceivable category this year. That’s not our only problem, but it sure seems like the easiest to fix.
home website reports: “reitsma likely to go to dl with numbness in two of his pitching fingers.”
i wonder where those fingers have been?
i posted this on the last thread but i think it got drowned out: does anyone have a theory on why almost all braves closers end up losing their minds?
That is what I was thinking too. It’s really the only explanation for the WB not to be at second base right now. But why isn’t he playing somewhere else? A lot of what is going on just doesn’t make any sense right now.
right on dawg, it’s so painfully obvious to everyone. painfull is the key word. The “ulneritis” Reitsma magically acquired is a nice touch though. Do you think Rathbun came up with that or the Braves PR?
Closers are crazy to begin with?
No theories, Ryan. The exception would be smoltz, but the way he’s going this year, maybe he’s lost it too.
There are certainly a lot of strange moves going on, and all I can figure is something’s going on internally that we can’t see. Maybe JS is waking from his coma…
Let’s try it in reverse:
We’re going to go to Atlanta and Tampa Bay, then we’re going to New York and San Diego, and Saint Louis and Philly and Pittsburg…….and then we’re going we’re going to New York to take back the division…..YEAHHHHHHHH!
Heh. Good one Dan.
Would someone please share the latest word on how HoRam is doing after that fearful headshot?
I am glad to see Stockman come up. I think that we have to be realistic about the season. Lets at least try to enjoy player development….
It was good to see the return of Chuck James, but even better has been the complete recovery of Matt Wright at AA. Now, I hope we can develop these players rather than trade them for relief help–because it is almost certainly too late to save the season.
On a negative note, Salty had been on a brief rebound at AA, but has started to struggle again…
During the game they said that they had him examined in Florida and that he was being sent to Atlanta for more tests, or further examination. Something like that. The announcers said, talking to him in the clubhouse, you would never know it happened. But keep the sources in mind on that one. At times they both seem brain damaged themselves.
Braves website says that Horacio has a bruise and some swelling and is sore but should still make his next start on Saturday against Boston.
How come nobody said anything about the best player the Braves have right now? Wilson freakin Betemit!
You blame it on Howard Dean. I’ll blame it on Ann Coulter. Or Ted Nugent. Or Attilla the Hun. Whatever. I have no opinion on that game, except to say that we seem to support our starter less when it’s Smoltz.
I went to the Yanks-Cleveland game in The Bronx tonight. Once again with Wang pitching, it was almost an NL-style tilt. 1-0 Yanks with a solo Cano HR beating Paul Byrd (remember him?)
Typical Wang Inning: ground-ball out, groundball single, ground-ball DP. When his nasty sinker is on, he’s a machine.
Beyond the super-quick game, the A-Rod shrivel remains the most interesting thing about NYY. Jeter comes off the bench & goes 3×4. A-Rod Ks 3 times & has a shaky game in the field. No love for the $25 M guy; copious love for th-e $20 M guy. Go figure.
Can we please win a game?
Giles and Langy need to be traded for bullpen,-(Betemit 2b and leadoff), frenchie stays, thorman needs to be called up to platoon in left, thomson, remlinger, and villareal need to be shot or released and chucky james needs to take a spot in the rotation. and as soon as davies is healthy sosa needs to go to the pen. and why is lance cormier starting? who cares. put sosa in the pen now and let cormier give it a try. he cant be any worse than sosa. bobby’s typically long wait to pull the trigger on stuff like this wont suffice. WE ARE ALREADY 11 GAMES BAKE FOR CRYIN OUT LOUD!
Braves website says that Horacio has a bruise and some swelling and is sore but should still make his next start on Saturday against Boston.
Well, that’s good news for them, then. Boston’s been struggling against LHP. This should be the perfect remedy for that.
Wow things keep getting worse. When I knew that the time would come when the streak ended I never imagined we would just drop off the face of the earth like this.
I think all things considered I would take a losing season over another first round exit. At least its mixing things up a bit.
Yup, when I bought tix for the 3 Braves games at Yankee Stadium next week, it never occured to me that we’d ever be this far in the dumper. Right now, I’m just hoping we don’t get embarrassed.
Jorge Sosa will probably have a good outing on Thursday and earn himself another three loses.
He’d make an okay long relief guy in the bullpen. But he always has that one inning, somewhat like Thomson, where he justs melts down and Cox usually waits until it’s too late to pull him.
This team needs to do something special to get back in the thick of things. If you can’t beat the Marlins or the Nationals, you can’t beat anybody. At this point, it couldn’t get any weirder so I wouldn’t be surprised to see Atlanta thrive in this interleague stretch after this miserable 3-12 run.
If we sweep the Red Sox, we’ll have enough confidence to carry us through the All Star break. Why the hell not.
The last part of that injury report on Reitsma is that he also has numbness in both his arms, his head, his heart and the entire lower part of his body. Apparently, after his era hit 9.11 on Sunday, he had to be carried over Brian Jordan’s shoulder to a waiting ambulance. They gently placed Reitsma’s head on a pillow as he curled into the fetal position and kept asking God for explanations.
Anyway, it’s only fair to report the entire injury situation.
Regarding this Giles showcase thing.
Doesn’t he have to get a hit for that to work?
I mean, if the Braves were SERIOUS about showcasing him, they would move him down to 6th or 7th in the order and hope he starts to hit more.
Does it take a sledgehammer to the Braves clubhouse walls and maybe tripping Bobby Cox in the halls of Turner Field to wake him the hell up to Marcus not being a leadoff hitter?
Sorry, one more thing.
This goes back to my complaints of Cox being too old school and clearly not reading a stat sheet anymore to manage. This is a problem.
First, let’s start with Giles and Francouer. Considering both their numbers, any manager in his right mind whether it was Joe Torre, Tony LaRussa even Dusty Baker, would be playing Betemit and Diaz regularly or asking their GM’s for farm help or trades.
On what other Major League teams would guys be allowed to hit so poorly and swing at the first pitch every single time.
And to be fair, I see Francouer take a lot of verbal abuse in here (and deserved) but honestly, he has far more value to the Braves then Marcus because at least Francouer A) plays great defense and has the best arm in Baseball and B) is capable of 30 homers.
What, at this point, does Marcus do? Average defense, little power (without the roids?), and marginal defense. There’s little there helping the Braves. He used to at least hit .300 and be a doubles machine but that’s gone away. Would it change hitting further down? I dunno…but he’s not a leadoff hitter, Bobby, just because he steals the most bases…this is Cox and his old school thinking.
The other old school thinking has been Remlinger being used constantly against lefthanders. He’s terrible against lefties, and at least average or above avg. against righties. Bobby…READ HIS SPLITS PLEASE.
Look, this team has had a low of awful players but if a month ago, we had just made some bullpen changes and some lineup changes from within, and stopped using guys in situations they were no good for (I.e., Reitsma or Villareal at all, Remlinger against righties, using Diaz and Betemit more, using B. Pena instead of Pratt, calling up Thorman for Jordan)–then I don’t buy for a second that the Braves would be 11 games out right now…maybe 4-5 and that’s it.
And that’s a far different story.
The season feels over (or close to it) and I am sorry…this is on JS and Cox. It’s June 14th today and why did it take so long to dump Reitsma? Why is Brian Jordan and Todd Pratt still on the team? Or Remlinger and Villareal? There are guys in the farm to replace them with and in the middle of June, these guys should not still be Atlanta Braves.
Fifteen years from now, I hope we don’t see articles with lines like, “Brian McCann, considered by many the best all-around catcher in baseball history, sadly never had a chance at a World Series ring after a brief run in the playoffs his rookie year.”
Alex, I find it interesting that you implore Cox to read the splits while simultaneously advocating a regular job for Diaz. Go read his career splits (such as they are). Diaz has played well so far, but he’s a lefty masher and nothing more.
With respect to Giles, and speaking of small-sample-size blues, I recall Furcal having a poor first couple of months last season, but Cox kept him in the lineup, because he’s seen time and time again that players who establish a level of ability will usually end up playing that way.
So I looked at Furcal’s game log from last year and saw his low point was around June 4. Here, presented without further comment, is Alex R from June 5: “One concept that has to change is this idea that you have to have a speedster leading off. Forget this asnd get good hitters out there…Furcal has to go to the bench…the new lineup:
1-Pete Orr, 2B
2-Wilson Betemit, SS
3-Ryan Langerhans, OF
4-Preston Wilson, OF*
5-Andy Marte, 3B
6-Brayan Pena, C
7-Julio Franco, 1B
8-Andruw Jones, CF”
Reitsma is numb because he has whip-lash. Every time he makes a pitch his head snaps back to watch the ball sail over the fence. I’m sure he’ll recover and Bobby will be quick to use him again.
Yates, has looked better recently and I dont think he has given up a run in his last 5 or 6 appearances. Paronto and McBride have good numbers too (McBride seems to be cutting down on his walks) so the question is why does Remlinger still get called on. Last night in the 8th was the best position to pitch Ray of all people. We had to hold them and Remlinger comes in a walks the 1st freakin batter. He should have been pulled there.
I have got a bad feeling that when, if ever, we get to Ray for save opportunites he will struggle because he is only pitching every 5th or 6th day. We should have let him get an inning in last night.
Sansho, you just made me miss Franco more than ever…The Mets aren’t using him so lets get him back and give them Jordan
“Jered Weaver has won his first four big league starts, but AL Cy Young winner Bartolo Colon is about to come off the disabled list. That presents the Los Angeles Angels with a difficult choice regarding Weaver’s status: does he stay in the rotation or go back to Triple-A?”
What’s the difficult choice – he’s 4-0 with a 1.2 freakin ERA. Maybe JS and Bobby are managing both of these ball clubs and he should just refocus on the BRAVES!
At the time, there were many of us calling for Furcal’s head because he wasn’t doing anything. That’s first of all.
Second, the Braves weren’t 11 Games out of 1st place with the season on a brink because we have upcoming series with 3 of the top teams in the American League.
Third, there’s this kid, I believe his name is Wilson Betemit…anyway, he’s pretty good I hear. He got a chance to start at 2nd Base on Saturday and had 2 ribbies in a 4-2 Braves win…the only win of the Houston series.
Pete Orr is not Betemit, but at the time, when Furcal was struggling horribly, it made sense to bench him until he turned it around.
If you watched the game last night, Marcus went o for 4 and swung at the first or second pitch every single time–and has been doing this all season. Consdering his contract cost and Betemit is a cheaper, better option, long term also, I don’t think it’s unreasonable at all to point out that we’d be better off dealing Marcus, improving 2 other areas of our team, and giving the job to Betemit.
As for Diaz, he’s not that great, admittedly…but he can occasionally take a walk. And Langy and Frenchy are simply not hitting consistently enough to help the Braves win ball games now so we need to try something else.
Again, we are 11 games behind the Mets and it’s June 14th. Spring Training has been over for more than 2 months.
The amount of pitching the Angels have available in their arsenal just makes me sad. That used to be US.
Guys like Jered Weaver and Scot Shields are afterthoughts to that team and we give regular work to pitchers such as Mike Remlinger, Oscar Villareal, Chris Reitsma and Jorge Sosa.
Life seems unfair sometimes.
Reitsma 2.75 million
Sosa 2.2 milion
Shields 2.1 million
money well spent, go Braves!
Well we need to take these next two games, that is the most important. I still say our goal is to get to 6 back by the break.
I’m not against the concept of trading Giles — it might help, and you’ve always got to try and improve. Benching him certainly will not, any more than benching Furcal would have helped last year. Every year there are players who don’t play up to their ability for extended periods of time, but go take a look at what they’ve done the last few years, and that will give a better sense of what to expect from them. I mean, really, what’s more likely? That a good player will play well, or that he’s turned into a pumpkin? Giles has spent the last 3 years showing he’s one of the top 3 or 4 players at his position in the league, just as Furcal had done. Sit him once a week because you’ve got Betemit, who needs playing time too? Fine. But you don’t bench someone like that. Even some old guy who never reads the splits knows that.
Well, at least we are in post season form…
Bobby has been a fan of platooning players his entire career. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he does “read the splits.”
I dunno what to do about this team, but it sure is fun watching McCann. He’s easily the best catcher in the league this year at the ripe old age of 22. Now we need to get him in the weight room so his body doesn’t betray him at 29…
Is anyone else out there afraid now that Russ Ortiz has been DFA’d? My goodness, the team was stupid enough to trade for Tom Martin.
Is anyone else out there afraid now that Russ Ortiz has been DFA’d?
I am now. I think a good rule of thumb is, stay away from all pitchers named R Ortiz or O Perez.
Does anyone else think it is funny that Arizona ate a record 22 million dollars to release him. They paid him 22 million dollars to leave. I think I’d pay that kind of money to have a few current braves leave.
Maybe the Braves just aren’t very good this year. But it doesn’t make sense to make trades just for the sake of making trades or throwing players that have been productive under the bus when they are struggling. If you make trades, they shold be based on calm, analysis, not the panic and despair that I see in these comments. The Braves had holes coming in and were counting on a lot of things happening that have not. They just aren’t that good. Tinkering with the lineup isn’t going to erase those holes, although I agree that Betemit should be playing more. Maybe this is just one of those years that were due for a long time where everything goes wrong. The team is not as bad as they are playing now, but they are far from a championship team.
Marc, the team is bad definitely, but we have the resources internally to possibly fix some of them. Such as Thorman, James, and Jurries. We aren’t asking JS and Bobby to make irrational trades, but some moves need to be made internally. They might not be the right moves such as James to the rotation, but we need to see if it will work out. There is not a doubt in my mind that James can be as good as Thomson or Sosa. Also, by putting James in there we can move Sosa to the pen and that can help that situation as well. Those aren’t panic moves or irrational trades, but it shows us (the fans) that we are doing every thing we can to win. We all agree that Betemit needs to be in the line-up and leading off and Giles is good trade bait. We might as well get something for him now because chances are he probably wont be in ATL for more than one more year. By sitting back and waiting for things to happen isn’t going to work.
I saw this on AJC and lost it….
“Bobby keeps saying Reitsma’s problem is location. I agree. He’s located in Atlanta and not somewhere else.”
As far as I am concerned, you can always speak for me.
First, hilarious AJC reference. The best part is that i think Bobby and JS actually read the AJC (unlike BravesJournal) so this hopefully should cement how ridiculous any defense of Reitsma’s production is.
Second, with regards to what many of us have said about changes to the Braves, no one has come on here and said we should trade half the team for Willis or Cabrera.
The guys we have talked about trading for our not household names like a Scot Shields or Craig Wilson. Every Braves fan on here has thoughtful and well constructed ideas on what the Braves can do, even in small ways to vastly improve this flailing team.
Furthermore, trading Marcus Giles is not exactly a huge turnover of talent and very comparable to a situation that came up for the Braves 1 year ago.
By late 2005, we came to realize that Johnny Estrada was blocking Brian McCann…a player we all agreed here in Mac land was better, younger and less expensive then Estrada and that moving Estrada in the winter made sense.
Now admittedly, the 2 pitchers we received didn’t work out, but that’s OK…it was at least a solid attempt but more importantly, Estrada was removed from the team so that Brian McCann could have a clear path to be a Major League starter and possibly the best Catcher in the National league at a .368 clip. (the one bright smart in a so far, dismal year!).
This is the same situation exactly.
Wilson Betemit is young cheaper, no worse then even defensively, and is a better hitter at this point. Moving Giles doesn’t hurrt the lineup or the defense when you come back with a Wilson Betemit instead.
But the main difference with last year is that Marcus is far more expensive then Estrada was so you save even more. Plus, besides the fact that we would be upgrading at 2nd Base, we could also utilize Marcus to vastly improve 1-2 otherareas of this team since it would appear that we have a ton of holes.
Look, it’s already been rumored on several websites that JS is looking at dealing Marcus so clearly, even our GM sees the logic in this, especially with Betemit ready to be an everyday player.
This is not any talk about scrapping the season or changing the franchise completely over, it’s fiscal sense and logic to talk about getting a young, ebtter and less expensive player in the lineup–just like a year ago when McCann got the job from Estrada.
Wishfull Thinking? I Like Giles A Lot, But…trade Giles, Langy And Thomson And Maybe A Prospect To The Rays For Crawford And SP M.hendrickson. That Would Add The Spark This Team Needs. See What C. James Can Do Bring Up Thorman And Move Sosa To The Pen.