MLB Trade Rumors: Braves Looking To Trade Giles
I don’t normally link random blog reports, but I’d be shocked if they weren’t trying to trade Marcus at this point.
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MLB Trade Rumors: Braves Looking To Trade Giles
I don’t normally link random blog reports, but I’d be shocked if they weren’t trying to trade Marcus at this point.
Use code “Journal” for a 5% discount.
Ahh! Selling low, my favorite trading strategy. Even more fun than buying high. I wish y’all’d listened to me when I begged the Braves to trade Furcal for Preston Wilson last year!
when you need starting pitching, relief pitching, hitting and defense, how can you improve via trade? assuming you’re not the mets and you can’t trade cash.
Remember the good old days when we had these can’t-miss prospects at SS and 2B in Myrtle Beach?
Dix, here’s the way you improve by trade–you find a place for Wilson Betemit to play every day, which improves hitting and defense. If we get back someone who’s better than Kolb and Reitsma, that’s a bonus.
So once we trade Giles, who will Betemit back up at 2nd? They could bring up Pena, I suppose, and let wilson keep pinch hitting twice a week.
Either Pena or Prado will be the backup at 2B.
It was a joke.
Sad that we have to trade Giles to find a spot for betemit.
So how exactly does Preston Wilson address the issue that this team strikes out too much?
He’s a K King (148 in ’05) & he’s had 2 big years in his life (incl. one in Colorado). In a pinball park, he has a .720 OPS, not exactly setting the world on fire.
To me, he’s always seemed like the kind of player you’d wanna avoid.
Smitty’s chauffeur’s financial planner sent me this over the wireless:
Cardinals get Marcus Giles
Angels get Chris Duncan
Braves get Scot Shields
That would be nice, if Scot Shields doesn’t suck.
What about Wes Timmons? Is he just 27 or do we have a high OBP option at 2nd or SS? Betemit needs to take over for LAroche, end this damn platoon thats haunted us since Bream/Hunter, and bulk up for more power.
Oh, I was just kidding. Sorry, thought that was more apparent.
Also, why would the Angels trade shields for Chris “Lil Jonny S isn’t the only beneficiary of nepotism in MLB!” Duncan?
I really don’t know anything about the Cards farm system, so I just plucked the first AAA OF having a good year that I saw. I’m sure they’d ask for more. So he’s Dave Duncan’s son then?
The Cardinals have a notoriously poor farm system; Baseball America moved them all the way up to 21 this year after four straight ranks of 28 or 30. What players they have are mostly way down the ladder.
So he’s Dave Duncan’s son then?
Yeah. The Cards system sucks; i’m not sure who their top prospect is. Probably colby rasmus (the big brother of our supplemental round pick).
—
I know everyone realizes McCann is great, but I’m not sure if they realize how great. Let me count the ways…
.368/.421/.564, .985 OPS
1:10 BB/AB ratio (not great, but very good for a young player)
13:13 BB/K ratio (outstanding for a young player – Jeff, you taking notes?)
1:10 K/AB ratio (outstanding for ANY player)
2 PBs in 325 innings
And he’s thrown out 11 out of 24 would-be basestealers, 45.8%
I sure hope he makes the all star team despite the missed time, because he really deserves it.
Who’s better, Brian McCann or Joe Mauer? Rate-wise, McCann looks just as good, but Mauer has played almost twice as much.
Brian McCann is not just the Braves’ David Wright, he’s the one thing keeping the Braves from being the soulless, mediocre corporate team that Sheffield slammed and that Time Warner didn’t care if we became.
I say we trade Marcus for Preston Mattingly.
Did anyone else hear Pete on the radio broadcast last night. He said that Wilson Betemit would start somewhere tonight.
Downtown, I think everyone has said that including Bobby. So I dont understand maybe Bobby and JS have a bet. Bobby told JS on the phone he would bet him one butterfinger that the Braves can win the division and come back from 15 games down. So we only have 4 more games too go. Lets hope Bobby wins!
I think McCann is an all-around better player.
As for Giles…. We screw him up and trade him when he’s worth the least so another team can get him on the cheap and laugh at us when he’s hitting .300 in any spot in the lineup other than leadoff? Yeah that’s a great idea!
A better idea is to trade The Roach and put Betemit at first.
Giles needs to take roids again, that’s the only thing that will help him! I dont buy the leadoff argument. He’s having a down year and that’s all there is too it. I dont understand why he cant catch up to a 90 mph fastball right now. He and Jordan have the same bat speed. I think his hand has caused more trouble than he will say.
I’m hesitant about trading Marcus. Even if he isn’t producing, he is a ideal guy to have in the clubhouse. He seems to constantly be joking around and keeping the dugout lighthearted. Someone who keeps the team from getting too depressed is something the ballclub needs to stick with for a while.
CSG think about it for a second, what did he hit last year in the 2nd spot? Now what has he hit this year as leadoff? Has Bobby tried him in any other spot other than leadoff for more than one week this season?
It’s pretty obvious.
I see what your saying and I understand it completely, but I think there is something still wrong with him. Just because he moves up a spot in the batting order shouldn’t change his approach. He’s not catching up to pitches and he looks as if he’s still fighting that hand injury. I like Marcus, but you’ve got to think he wont be ATL more than one more year at best. After arb. next year he’ll be around $5 mil and we might be better off to trade him now. If not, we need to send Betemit to AAA and let him play 1st for a week and see how he does. After that lets trade LaRoche. Giles still has a lot of trade value and if the trade is right it must be done. I think everyone here would love to have both Giles and Betemit in the line-up, but it wont happen.
Betemit is long out of options.
CSG, anytime you move in the batting order necessitates a change in approach. Especially when you’re moving to the leadoff spot. Each spot in the order has slightly different responsibilities and expectations. The problem for us is that no one told Giles to pretend like he was still batting second. I’d definately take all those doubles ahead of Renteria and Chipper. even if it meant he was swinging for the fences instead of just worrying about getting on base. Oh well…
That’s true I forgot about that –
talking about Betemit
I don’t like the “trade low” prospect with Giles, but what else can we do? Well, rumors abound about Carl Crawfords availability, and the D-Rays need a catcher. I know we all love Salty, but Crawford is a leadoff hitter and would provide solid defense in left. We say Giles isn’t cutting it, but neither is Langerhauns, who at best is a 4th outfielder. Getting Crawford could move Giles down to 2nd in the order and move Renteria to 7th or 8th.
Or, getting Crawford could allow us to trade Renteria for a Scot Shields or someone of that level, and as Mac said, put lil’ Tony Pena at SS to improve defense. If Pena faulters, move Betemit there, and even though he doens’t have Furcal’s range, it would be equal to Renteria’s and put his bat in the lineup.
We’ve heard the trade Giles rumors, but again, WHO IS GOING TO LEADOFF?? Giles obviously can’t handle that position, for whatever reason, so what’s to say we don’t ruin another player (Betemit) who isn’t a prototypical leadoff hitter, has only average speed, and is playing a position he has little experience at. Our infield defense is shotty enough that we don’t need to add more question marks.
speaking of that any word on Langy, he might be DL’d. If so at least we should get a look at Thorman
Yeah everyone is right, trading Giles now would be selling low but we have what the Braves think is a ready replacement in Betemit. Shoot Wilson could suck and if we got a league average pitcher or outfielder out of it we’d still be the better.
I can’t understand the LaRoche hate. He aint a star but at least the last couple of months he’s been close to league average. We can carry league average at 1B. The corner outfielders though………..
How sad.
We’ve gone from “Free Marcus Giles!” to “Marcus Giles — Free!”
I could be ok with trading Giles. We’ve clearly gotta do something and the earlier the better. Betemit definitely needs to be in the lineup, even though I don’t know that he’d be much of an upgrade in defense than Marcus. You think we could get Wainwright back for Giles? He would be an improvement in the bullpen right now (probably the rotation too).
I suspect Crawford is too rich for our blood right now, but that would be nice too.
The whole idea of Betemit hitting lead-off reminds me of when Grissom was recruited to fill that spot. He ended up getting over 200 hits that year.
I fail to see how trading Marcus, who is the best defender in the infield (not saying much) and putting Betemit in his place improves the defense. But maybe I’m just missing something. I think trading him is a bad idea, because he’s at pretty low value right now and there are just so many other holes on this team that don’t involve Marcus that it’s really disheartening. What if he rebounds and then we’re forced to watch him kill us for the next 10 years? Because he was a pretty damned good hitter before. I don’t see how he could just lose all of it overnight. I’m just not sure it’s worth the risk of trading him away only to see that we were too hasty and then being stuck with a team that still has a ton of holes PLUS we don’t have Marcus anymore. Just not real big on this.
I’m kinda with jenny. He was a perennial .300 hitter every year but this one, the one year he moves in the lineup. To just say he’s lost it and trade him, esp. right now, seems hasty. If we could get a dynamite, young, cheap leadoff guy in exchange, that’s one thing, but I’m not sure there are any out there.
The Rays are not trading Carl Crawford.
Remy, I don’t see the Grissom/Betemit comparison, but hey, that’d be awesome if it worked.
I also agree with Jenny and Brad…..trading Marcus will not solve anything. Betemit needs to play, yes, but adding him to a lineup and getting a scrub pitcher, since Marcus won’t bring much, is NOT going to improve this team.
Crawford maybe a little rich, but we need a bat like his at the top of our order.
CJ,
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/scorecard/06/14/truth.rumors.mlb/index.html
The Rays are not going to give Crawford away, that’s obvious, but he can be had for the right price. Granted, so long as that price isn’t astronomical, I think it would be beneficial for the Braves to look into this. The chances of us getting him are 0.25%, but heck, doesn’t hurt to wish. I just figured since other teams are making a play, why shouldn’t we??
I like Marcus & I don’t believe he’s the lousy hitter we’ve seen this year. The Furcal analogy is somewhat apt, I think. I don’t believe his power numbers will ever come back, but he’ll be spanking doubles again for us or someone else for another 5 years at least.
However, given his contract & Betemit’s development (and high value relative to his salary), I believe the Braves should explore options. It should be shrill-shrieking obvious that we need kick-ass bullpen help. If Marcus is the bullet we bite, so be it.
Of course, I’d rather get a guy like Crawford & have Marcus bat second or lower. I just don’t understand why Tampa would trade him or want anything we have.
BTW, JS is working on improving this team. Count on that. To think he isn’t is foolish.
ububba,
Salty, McCann, Prado, Jo-Jo Reyes, and a few others were names mentioned when we were interested in Lugo. Obviously McCann isnt’ going anywhere, but those are just a few names that were brought up.
On another note, I just noticed that Sunday’s match-up is Smoltz vs. Schilling. Is that the ESPN Sunday Night game?
I’d rather have Giles than Crawford. He is terrible!
Giles is sucking for two reasons, I believe.
1) He isn’t hitting with someone fast on base in front of him, so he is seeing less fastballs. He loves to hit fastballs in the gap, but isn’t seeing as many.
2) no more greenies
I miss the old days when an email pop up let me know there was a new Mac posting/thread…here’s what I posted this morning…up for discussion.
CSG,
As far as I am concerned, you can always speak for me.
First, hilarious AJC reference. The best part is that i think Bobby and JS actually read the AJC (unlike BravesJournal) so this hopefully should cement how ridiculous any defense of Reitsma’s production is.
Second, with regards to what many of us have said about changes to the Braves, no one has come on here and said we should trade half the team for Willis or Cabrera.
The guys we have talked about trading for our not household names like a Scot Shields or Craig Wilson. Every Braves fan on here has thoughtful and well constructed ideas on what the Braves can do, even in small ways to vastly improve this flailing team.
Furthermore, trading Marcus Giles is not exactly a huge turnover of talent and very comparable to a situation that came up for the Braves 1 year ago.
By late 2005, we came to realize that Johnny Estrada was blocking Brian McCann…a player we all agreed here in Mac land was better, younger and less expensive then Estrada and that moving Estrada in the winter made sense.
Now admittedly, the 2 pitchers we received didn’t work out, but that’s OK…it was at least a solid attempt but more importantly, Estrada was removed from the team so that Brian McCann could have a clear path to be a Major League starter and possibly the best Catcher in the National league at a .368 clip. (the one bright smart in a so far, dismal year!).
This is the same situation exactly.
Wilson Betemit is young cheaper, no worse then even defensively, and is a better hitter at this point. Moving Giles doesn’t hurrt the lineup or the defense when you come back with a Wilson Betemit instead.
But the main difference with last year is that Marcus is far more expensive then Estrada was so you save even more. Plus, besides the fact that we would be upgrading at 2nd Base, we could also utilize Marcus to vastly improve 1-2 otherareas of this team since it would appear that we have a ton of holes.
Look, it’s already been rumored on several websites that JS is looking at dealing Marcus so clearly, even our GM sees the logic in this, especially with Betemit ready to be an everyday player.
This is not any talk about scrapping the season or changing the franchise completely over, it’s fiscal sense and logic to talk about getting a young, ebtter and less expensive player in the lineup–just like a year ago when McCann got the job from Estrada.
Then again, Smitty, fatherhood may have had the same effect on Giles that it did on Steve Avery. Too many sleepless nights. Not that I’m against fatherhood, I’m just saying . . . .
Ok…now that I am several hours behind, let me also catch up on something posted by Guy Curtright on AJC this morning.
That Chris Reitsma, for a month, (or more) hid his numbness injury.
All sympathy for Reeksma is officially gone.
But this still doesn’t excuse Cox who may not have KNOWN about Chris’ injury, but he was still garbage out there.
It’s safe to say there will be no more days ever of Reeksma in a Braves uniforma and now I don’t have to care what happens to “the big, hang dog, Canadien”.
We are only 6 back in the Wild Card too.
re: LaRoche
I would personally trade LaRoche over Marcus, if the value was the same.
But LaRoche is a waste of space which no team would give up anything for.
Giles, on the other hand may still net a big fish or two.
So…trade the guy who brings in more but in my perfect world, both are out of the lineup.
Remy,
That is antoher reason greenies are important to Giles.
Smitty,
Are you saying Crawford is terrible??
“I’d rather have Giles than Crawford. He is terrible!”
What the @#$@$ is this stuff about Marcus and greenies? Did I miss something? I don’t like the idea of trading Marcus, but sometimes shit happens. My understanding was the he might not want to stay with free agency since his entire family is on the west coast. If we get something for him great. If we keep him, well so what?
Secondly, what is this about trading Laroche crap still? No he’s not Bagwell or Delgado, but y’all wanna put a rookie in there who might suck once he gets to the big leagues. How many rookies have we seen bomb out? Then all of you would be bitching and moaning that we have another sucky first baseman.
I trust JS and Bobby still. We might not make it this year. It would be terrible as it would be the end of the streak, but not the end of the world.
Everyone bitched when we traded Marte, but Renteria leads the team in BA and has looked pretty decent out there. And if I remember correctly Furcal had horid defense as well, kept throwing it over peoples heads.
I’m getting tired of speculation and wishing any changes would be made.
They should have been working on this for the past month instead of sitting around thinking things would fix themselves.
Andy,
For 3 consecutive years now, LaRoche has been an average hitter and a below average fielder.
He’s not Delgado and he’s not even Klesko.
Thorman would be an upgrade. or Craig Wilson. Or most people.
Yeah Crawford sucks. His number look good, but he really sucks. We need Crawford like we need Kolb.
Marcus and his brother have both been mentioned in ‘roid talks. I don’t thin we can prove anything, but he needs to start drinking 15 cups of coffee a day to make up for his loss.
Land, we did win 18 games last month. Things were looking good.
Truthfully…I would simply just be happy to get Betemit 4 at bats per day…either for Marcus or Adam–I don’t care who, but one of those players who’s not as good offensively or defensively as Betemit, should be behind him or somewhere else–end of story.
I vote for Alex R. at first.
Presto–immediate upgrade.
I’m not even kidding.
Andy S, I guess you haven’t been around when The Roach makes horrible plays that end up costing us runs? And his batting average isn’t anything to write home about. I don’t understand why people defend him. I would be ectsatic if we got rid of him. Just watching him sit there in the batter box looking like an expressionless robot makes me want to punch him in the face.
Thorman is on fire right now and he plays first base, can’t do any worse than The Roach.
Smitty,
Ok, if Crawford sucks, then I want the Braves to suck as bad as Crawford. “His numbers look good, but he really sucks??” What the heck?? Do you know what your talking about??
Smitty,
To be fair, the Marlins were horrible last month and we had a bunch of games against them. The Cubs too.
That accounted for half or more thank half the wins. Right?
Smitty, I said in the past month, meaning the last four weeks, not last month as in May.
Brian Jordan has joined the ranks of Dan Kolb, Keith Lockhart, former Tennessee defensive back Teddy Gains as my least favorite players ever. His level of suckatude is the real reason we are loosing.
I blame him for Rietsma, Chipper not REALLY hitting, Andruws power outage, Renteria only getting hits when it doesn’t ocut and kicking balls, McCann’s ankle, Dayton Moore leaving, the Vols 5-6 season, and Snakes on a Plane!
Brad,
You are nice guy but even I admit that LaRoche is an upgrade over me 🙂
Not anyone else, but an upgrade over me!
When I played Little League, I was a 2B, SS, LF and RF.
The 2 sports I was good at though were Basketball and Soccer (I was all city in Soccer but my career was over by High School!) but what’s interesting…despite being a good Soccer player (and my dad is British and a big follower of the English Premier League, a Totenham fan) I still have minimal interest only in the World Cup.
Anyway, off the subject.
Of course, (and I love my dad…just mailed my very funny Father’s Day card which made a joke about steroids…good stuff) my dad is a METS fan (as is my brother).
That’s why the Braves playing like dog poo is especially painful. Thankfully, my wife & my mom back the Braves to even things out for me.
If only Brian Jordan were the sole reason the team sucks. Brian is just another older player that bobby loves and can’t say goodbye too.
Again, if we would just make Brian asst. bench coach or soemthing, he wouldn’t have to and Bobby could hang out with Brian all he wants!
Yes Crawford is a stat machine. He plays for him self. If he was as great as everyone thinks he is, he would be playing left for the Yankees.
Crawford may not be the end all be all of our problems, but siffice it to say, he’s a better leadoff hitter then Giles–no?
No. I’m serious. I’d rather see you at 1st.
Ok, ok, ok! Let’s get Crawford. We need a three team deal like:
TB Gets: Langerhans, Lerew, Brian Pena, and an Angels Prospect
AALAOC: Get Giles and Huff
ATL: Gets Shields and Crawford
I think Langy would look good in that aqua green!
It’s been made clear that Betemit was not a good fit at first base, so replacing Laroche (which I would personally prefer) is unfortunately not an option.
I would love to see Chipper take first, Betemit take third, and keep Giles at second. That way we could move Betemit to leadoff and Giles could take his hacks as a number 2 hitter again.
Plus, I’m sure it’s happened, but I have yet to see a Brave beat out an infield single this year. We need some Furcal caliber speed.
RobBroad4th,
Exactly…….ahem, Carl Crawford speed!
yes…this is a slow team but strikeouts and double plays are bigger killers.
The worst thing and what leads to this stuff is the constant need for Francouer and Giles and LaRoche in particular to swing at the first pitch.
I cannot believe what an overall impatient team this is, especially considering how bad things are going…you would think someone, anyone (Pendleton?) would slap Frenchy and Giles upside the had and hit them in the knee with a bat everytime (in the cage) they swing at the first pitch.
I get so sick of this line: Lead-off double, strikeout, fly out, ground-out. That K is just killer… a weak roller to the right side and thats a sac fly rbi. The lack of contact hitters on this team is pathetic, THAT is what we need.
I wonder how many doubles Giles got because pitchers were throwing fastballs up and away to give their catcher a chance to throw out Furcal. Giles’ approach might be similar to when he was hitting 2nd, but the pitches he’s getting might be different now.
Don’t the Braves have some sort of high-tech pitching machine to help their batters learn to read breaking balls?
…and it’s exactly why Betemit should be in the lineup…he’s a contact hitter.
I would also really love to see Thorman get a shot.
James, exactly. Does anyone remember when Pena came up, he looked like a professional hitter. If someone was on 2nd he slapped the ball to the right. Maybe they teach this in AAA and some of the other guys forgot. By the way, that is just one of the many things we need.
Question – Has Francouer ever hit an opposite field HR? I cant remember one. I know his first one was dead center, but has he hit one to right.
Smitty,
You said that Brian Jordan was to blame for UT’s 5-6 season. If that’s the case, he’s my new favorite player (-;
Roll Tide / Go Braves!
I think trading Giles is our only hope for upgrading the team and turning things around. However, even that hope looks pretty slim.
The last few years the Braves have been unable to manufacture runs. Without the 3-run homer- or the solo shot for that matter, we have been quite anemic on offense. Well, now it shows… DPs and Ks left and right. How many games go something like “Braves Big Blasts Back Smoltz” or something to that effect? When this team can make that lead-off single score from first- without the longball- then, and only then, will we be a contender.
In their only win in recent memory Betemit lead off with a double in the first and was bunted to third before he scored. Two important things happened. 1) Betemit played 2) They manufactured him in. With an early lead Hudson lead the team to victory that day. It also hurts that the Braves seem to always be losing early in the game.
Keep the hope people…..has anyone else noticed that Mr.Glavine is beginning to look mortal….Pedro is complaining of pain in his hip flexor/big toe again, and their rotation is still weak/unproven just as much as our back end.
Sorry, Smitty my friend, I am with td…as a Georgia and Bama fan, if BJ cost the Vols their college football season every year, I would keep him on the Braves active roster until he was 88 years old 😉
I haven’t given up yet but we need a total Mets collapse. Not to mention the Phillies. The Mets offense this year is a lot better than last year’s so a collapse is less likely. We also need the management to make some decent decisions right now or it will be too late.
Danny boy just gave up a 3-run bomb to Dunn to end a scoreless game that had gone into extras. Man, I don’t miss him.
I really wonder if Reeksma hid an injury, or if this is an excuse to DL him. If he really hid the injury, then he does not deserve to come back to wear the Atlanta uniform. Unfortunately, he’ll probably have to come back and pitch effectively before anyone else will take him in trade.
Be interesting to see what JS does, but bottom line, he *has* to do something, or the Braves might as well throw in the towel.
John in Austin.
Very simply: “Throw in the Towel on Chris Reitsma”.
See ya, big guy…enjoy KC or Tampa.
Laroche should be gone. Thorman is getting better each level, each year. Laroche needs to start working on his slider if he is going to stay in atlanta.
leo’s book mentions the braves DL’ing Wohlers when he got so wild, even thought he had no physical injury. Im guessing that’s what Reitsma is at this point. This gives them room to make a move and stall for time.
Giles is gone after next year. We arent getting a steal at $4MM. Will it suck to watch him play well somewhere else? Yes. But that someone else will be paying him a lot more than we ever would. I dont think it will happen. Betemit, Prado, Pena, Andrus, Escobar are all there for next year.
But Wohlers did have a physical injury; they just couldn’t find it. Of course, I’m still tickled by the “inability to pitch” description on his DL assignment.
I loved Wohlers energy and fire. Those 100mpg strikeouts were fun to watch too. We need another closer with that kind of strikeout talent.
Phil Stockman, 39K in 29IP. 6’8”, 250lbs, with lighting bolts shooting out his arse.
I really wouldn’t be too excited to see Giles go. While I don’t buy that he stinks because he’s hitting leadoff, I’d at least try dropping him in the lineup or doing SOMETHING different. Just flip him an Renteria for two games and see what happens. Honestly, what’s the worst-case scenario?
DDawg,
I like those K #’s you posted on Stockman.
I am curious if he may have a shot at being a closer type?
Oh, and while I’m at it, LaRoche isn’t the problem. He’s nothing special, and we’ve probably got guys who are just as good as he in the minors, but we really don’t have anyone better. If we can improve at 1B, then sure, lets do it. But at this point, it doesn’t really look like we can, barring some sort of trade.
Then the hell don’t we try him as our closer?
sounds like the kind of guy we need.
Dan—I agree!
mraver–you really don’t think Thorman with his offensive numbers and defensive prowess wouldn’t be better then LaRoche? Really?
I just don’t understand management doesn’t try things. They don’t have to be earth shattering changes, but do something and if it doesn’t work then make a trade. Last year injuries forced us to promote young guys. This year we should just try it because what we got ain’t working.
Hard to believe that just last July Reitsma won the Rolaids Reliever of the Month award. Things went bad for him right after that.
I have to tell you, folks, listening to The Black Keys helps me deal with the way the Braves have played lately. Everything’s up from here.
Yeah, I was going to say the same thing Alex said. Thorman is tearing it up at first base down in Richmond. How is he not better than The Roach, mraver?
Thor!!!! Need to pick up some of his rc’s.
Giles should have been moved to left field years ago anyway…we could’ve put Furcal at secon, where he belonged. Sigh.
It might be time for this team to start thinking about ’07–not to say the second half should go down the drain, but it might help this team to finish 3rd and avoid this tinkering they do each offseason. Sometimes you need to do some retooling–the Braves got lucky throwing in all those rookies last year. They’re great players and it was nice to see, but out of the 15 or so who saw some time, McCann is the only one that MOST fans seem to be excited about (Francoeur is on the fence).
And about Francoeur, he seems to be an excitable person, and he’s just out of control on the field sometimes; meaning, he isn’t playing within himself. The errant throws and wild swings have got to temper themselves at some point. He just needs time for that to happen, and I don’t think it matters if he’s here or AAA.
Bottom line, the Mets and Braves will have to do a complete 180 for this division streak to continue. NY isn’t just winning games either, but they’re beating teams–taking the extra base, hitting the cut-off man, capitalizing on mistakes and making fewer than their opponents. One trade, whether it’s Marcus or whoever, isn’t going to make this team better than the Mets in ’06.
Keep in mind that we’ve got Boyer, Foster, Hampton and Johnson all coming back in ’07.
Trade for McGriff! Worked in ’93.
And the likes of Pena, Prado, Thorman and Lightning Bolt Ass won’t be much help either.
Maybe this is unwarranted optimism, but wouldn’t it be incredible to lose the division for the first time in 14 years only to take the Wild Card and beat the Mets in the playoffs? Wild Card winners seem to thrive in the postseason.
On that topic, why is it taking Hampton so long to rehab? Seems like he’s been out for years and the 2007 season is still a long ways away.
Hoboken, why won’t Thor and Lightning bolt ass be of any help?
hoboken…your words….
Francouer “seems to be an excitable person, and he’s just out of control on the field sometimes; meaning, he isn’t playing within himself”
Who does this sound like—MARCUS!!! 🙁
They essentially have the same issues and it drives us crazy.
Ok…Remy…you unintentionally had me ROFLMAO!!!!
When you said “last July Reitsma”, I am tired and I thought you were calling him:
JUDY REITSMA
Dude…that’s like the funniest mistake I have read (in my own mind of course) all day.
Can we run with this now and call June 14th “Judy Reitsma” day? Seriously…how f-ng great a name is JUDY Reitsma for Chris? Love it!!!
Mac…next thread title:
“Judt Reitsma Day!”
In fact…the giveaway to the first 10,000 kids at the park is something like “Judy Reitsma Barf Bags” when he pitches…there could be a whole line of Judy Reitsma products!
The difference in levels between LaRoche and Thor is significant — you don’t just move up to the majors and miss a beat (unless you’re Miguel Cabrerra). We can’t really expect that Thorman could put up his AAA numbers in Atlanta. Also, Adam has better ISO power numbers than Thorman and walks more even considering that he plays at a higher level. The biggest difference is in average, which would presumably dip when he moves up. He may be a better defensive first baseman, but I don’t really know.
But at this point I’m really ready for a change. If they’re about the same value, I’d like the guy that strikes out less just for the chage of pace.
I meant, “Judy Reitsma Day” not “Judt Reitsma Day” of course, for next thread…
lando,
Hampton got TJ surgery last Sept. If Braves play him at all this year, they cannot collect insurance against his enormous contract. See him in ten months, we will.
Lando, maybe in ’07, if Thorman is good to go at 1B, but I can’t see how we have the same fortune as last year bringing up guys with no major league experience. The big difference is having to make up 11 games and jump over two teams, as opposed to holding off what ended up being a pretty weak division last year.
First time I ready that quickly I thought it said Judy Reitsma too.
Jay, of course his average will dip but he’s hitting so well right now that it could drop 100 points and he would still be hitting better than The Roach.
Hoboken, Well put. Following last year’s “model” is cheapskate suicide. The performance of the rooks was a pleasant anomaly. Our task this year, if we want to bang our way back in, will take more sophistication than a “cross your fingers” approach with call ups.
That’s fine, Alex, and I see your point. Two things though: Marcus is having a bad year compared to what he’s been, and we’ve seen no sign of Francoeur making adjustments. Marcus is also still a great defender, and although Jeff is as well, him airmailing that ball that he fielded off of Ramirez’s face is a great example of what I mean.
Ahh well that explains it, thanks Jkallerm. Just another example of our shitty ownership not will to spend any extra money to improve the team.
Hoboken, that begs the question though. How can Thor do any worse or make our situation anymore dire? Who knows another youngster that provides a spark for the team might be just what we need. Something like we experience last year.
Hoboken,
Considering how putrid LaRoche is most of the time, there’s nothing to lose. Me thinks the offense and defense would improve with Thorman and Betemit over Giles and LaRoche…and we are still in the W.C. hunt even if the Division is out of reach.
I, for one, would like to see the ‘crap’ cleared out and as many good changes as possible and still make a run for something this year before the season is over. I hate giving up completely in June if there are at least Internal changes we can make (i.e. Thorman, Lil’ Pena, Brayan Pena, Stockman, Barry, Chuckie James) before we throw the towel in.
If we stick with our current 24 man roster, that’s throwing in the towel.
Jordan, Remlinger, Villareal, Pratt all need to go at least and would love Thorman to jump in front of LaRoche, Betemit to replace Marcus, Diaz to replace one of the kids, James to replace Sosa or Thomson and give this thing a shot?
I mean…we cannot get any worse????
Hoboken, at this point we don’t have anything to lose and if it doesn’t work out we can always send them back to Richmond. If we were in some kind of contention I might agree with you but seeing as we are 11 games back I don’t think we have many other options right now. Especially with ownership that won’t spend any more money.
Well, not really. LaRoche is at .243 and Thor is at .325, so 100 point drop still puts Adam on top. My point is that Thorman probably doesn’t constitute a huge bump over LaRoche, and that initially it could be worse because he’ll be changing levels.
I’d love to be wrong, though. . . .
It’s sad that a 100 point drop from any player would almost put him on top of another players average. And my point is initially it could be better also. You are arguing about something that makes no difference at this point, better or worse we have nothing to lose. What if he continues his high level of play in the big leagues? The risk is worth taking right now.
Ok, Jay, maybe I am stupid, but the last time I checked….325 is a helluva lot better then .243?
Plus, Thorman has shown he can take a walk (something Adam has a hard time with…it might require the big amoeba to pay attention) and his glove work is far surperior…something that surely doesn’t change whatever level you are at.
By the way, (Land are you and Brad with me on this?) I am up for Adam’s permanent nickname as “The Big Amoeba”.
LaRoche’s walk rate this year is actually better than Thorman’s, but I don’t know how long that will last.
Does anyone call LaRoche Lurch? If not, why not?
Dunno Alex, I am rather fond of The Roach 😉
He kind of scuttles around like a roach and he always digusts me, again like a roach…
Lando and Alex, it’s very possible that Thorman could be an upgrade at 1B right now. I just don’t think he or any other of the AAA crowd is going to help this team win in ’06. We’ve already got a catcher (Pena), a 2B (Prado), and relying on young pitchers is tough. Could happen, of course, so why not? But then you start thinking about who’s got minor league options left and when arbitration clocks begin.
Well, Mac, if I was wrong about the walk thing, sorry…but considering the batting average and defense difference, there’s nothing to lose.
I mean, Adam has now been given 3 consecutive years and this is as “good as it gets’.
Lerch, The Big Amoeba…those are not nicknames you want associated with your first Baseman.
I also like “Sleepy”.
Either way I hope we get to see some lightning bolts from Stockmans ass tonight. I look forward to his debut!
The reason I posted the averages wasn’t to say that Adam’s was better, just that it wasn’t more than 100 points worse as landogarner alleged.
I’m no huge fan of LaRoche, but I just wanted to point out that our hopes shouldn’t all be pinned on Thorman.
Hoboken,
I guess I feel we are still IN the Wild Card race and I respect our differences on this, but I do feel changes could help upgrade this team to at least make it competitive for the Wild Card.
Plus, with the Mets 3 best starters being a combined 100+ years old, there’s an outside chance that team falls flat in the 2nd half. Really.
Lando—“The Roach” almost sounds ‘loveable’ because Bobby calls him, “Roachy”.
Maybe if Bobby would stop being so nice and called him what he was like “sleepy” or “slow poke” or “Lurch”, then maybe Adam would actually show some emotion, be pissed off, and low and behold, stop playing so damned crappy so much.
Who is pinning all of their hopes on Thorman? I just wanted to see LaRoche out and Thorman is our best option to replace him. I don’t expect him to carry the club on his back, but it would be nice if he did! 😀
Land,
I agree 100%.
Thorman is on my list of about 7-8 changes I would make. I don’t expect or nor should anyone expect Thor to save the day…but hell, how great a nickname is “THOR”?
Better then Lerch, The Amoeba, or Sleepy.
Am I the only one who thinks Laroche looks like Bert (and Giles is a passable Ernie).
Yes. They look lilke Schwarzenegger and Danny DeVito in “Twins.”
You’d be “sleepy” too if your roommate kept you up all night and ate cookies in your bed. If it wasn’t for that damn banana in his ear, Laroche could shut him up and get some shut eye for the big game.
can either of laRoche or Thormond play OF? Both are hitting significantly better than Frenchie.
You guys are placing way to much “value” on what Giles is hitting at the moment. Teams know what kind of player he is, he’s worth just as much after a few poor months as he was before. Now, if he finished the entire season hitting like this, THEN his value might start going down. But trading him now is not “trading low”. Value is what teams perceive, not what a player is doing at that particular moment. Though current performance has some impact on perceived value, it is hardly the overriding factor.
“So once we trade Giles, who will Betemit back up at 2nd?”
The guy who does now? Orr.
In my opinion these are the trades that I
would make
Atl- Carl Crawford OF
TB- Jarrod Saltalamacchia C
Ryan Langerhans OF
Atl- Bob Wickman RP
Cle- John Thomson SP
maybe a prospect
Atl- Marcus Giles 2B
SD- Scott Linebrink RP
If these trades were to happen then they
would solve the closer situation, Linebrink
would help the bullpen considerly and
Crawford would lead-off and get SB’s
trade chipper. he’s the number 3 hitter and isn’t producing any power numbers. he’s too selective at the plate. maybe he needs to be in the leadoff spot. wilson can fill his shoes
chipper can be your lead off since he never swings the bat.
screw that chipper seems like they he is the only person getting on base he is third in obp behind brian mccann and edgar and he is playing really good defense. plus he is the only veteran that is being a leader. in between innings he is sitting on the bench talking to the younger guys and he is the one calming down the pitchers on the mound. i thought that the biggest mistake the braves made the whole offseason was not getting leo mazzone to stay he must of been doing something right because look what has happened now to our pitching staff and look what happens to every pitcher that leaves the braves after having a career year. tom glavine, greg maddux, kevin millwood, jarrett wright, russ ortiz, etc so maybe one of the problems are with roger mcdowell.