ESPN.com – MLB – Box Score – Pirates at Braves
What the hell just happened? I think this is about the 15th one of those games the Braves have lost this year. The bullpen was the proximate cause of this collapse, but you can blame everyone except the starting pitcher. That pitcher was Oscar Villareal, and he was just dandy yet again, going five and allowing one run.
You all probably know that I don’t think much of the difference between “unearned” and “earned” runs. Occasionally, there’s an exception. For instance, if a player reaches on an awful error by the shortstop, you get a double play ball, but the second baseman can’t turn it, then the guy who reached on the “fielder’s choice” scores on a double, as happened in the sixth, you probably should get a break. However, in this case, because the run scored was the fielder’s choice guy, even though he would have been out later. Anyway, that made it 1-0, and the unearned run rule is stupid. Villareal went five and allowed four hits, no walks, one strikeouts, and was lifted for a pinch-hitter.
That pinch-hitter, for some reason, was L’il Tony Pena, who (unbelieveably) hit a homer to tie the game. But after loading the bases on walks with one out, McCann (who is having an awful series) hit a GIDP — with Orr, who could score on almost anything, at third. The Braves took the lead on an Andruw bloop single in the seventh, but McCann flew out with two on to end that threat.
Baez came in and had nothing. And Bobby let him make it 3-2 before lifting him, and brought in Ray, who hasn’t gotten anyone out since June, and it was 5-2 before Baez made it to the clubhouse. Prado (who, earlier in the game, had pinch-hit for Orr with nobody out and a runner on second and bunted if you can imagine such a thing, I would complain about Bobby bunting with a pinch-hitter for a position player but for all I know Prado bunted on his own) drove in a run that would have tied it if Ray could have held it to 3-2. The Braves went meekly in the ninth.
I could put Baez in the Doghouse, or McCann, or Renteria (who was awful in the field and at the plate) but am putting the man who most annoyed me there instead.
1st post!
Wooohooo
1ST POS….. DAVEY!!! YOU CHEATER!!!!!
Yes, keep Torborg there. No in fact build another doghouse. Keep Torborg there at all times. And use the other one for the players who are responsible for losing games. Have two form now on.
Torborg deserves it.
Good idea. Torborg needs his own default doghouse.
Anyways, another depressing loss. I’m happy I didn’t see it. Although I would actually pay money to see a Tony Pena Jr. homerun happen…
I’m out..
That’s the Baez I saw with the Dodgers. He’s back to normal. The Betemit trade just keeps getting worse and worse.
Nice to see Baez revert back to his usual suckiness. JS should be run out of town if he re-signs this worthless piece of crap.
An utterly appalling loss. I’m still disgusted.
Goodnight, all.
See you later Davey.
Baez got wild. But Renteria lost his defense big time.
I didn’t see the game and now I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t have wanted to.
I agree, keep Torborg in the doghouse at ALL times.
Not that Betemit is doing anything great for the Dodgers since his hot start…
…tonight’s game is very depressing. To be honest, the whole offense should be in the doghouse tonight for failing to solve Chacon for the second time. Being hold to one run by Chacon (and that was a homerun by little Pena) is completely shameful.
This season is a failure people. Despite the good htting this year. In certain games when we needed it was no where to be found. The pitching except for Smoltz and the past 3-4 weeks of “quality relief” (decent) has been horrific for the most part. The defense has been good but also somewhat inconsistent. This season is over.
Back up that truck, back it way up….
So its settled, another doghouse solely reserved for the boring personal story concerning a spring training game in 1964 sound grater known as Jeff Torborg.
You could make a case for putting Baez in the doghouse, but I’m sorry, Bobby Cox should be the one put in the doghouse. I was listening to the top of the 8th inning on my way home from work, and besides the fact my blood pressure tripled after listening to Baez walk Duffy and Wilson on, I couldn’t believe Bobby didn’t lift Baez for Ray or McBride with Freddy Sanchez coming to the plate, but instead waited until after Sanchez and Bay had consecutive hits to lift him. (Actually, I don’t even know if Bobby lifted him after the Bay single because I was so pissed I about swerved off the road and ran into a telephone pole.) Baez obviously couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn from the way the announcers were talking, so why leave him in?
I just don’t understand how Cox can be so consistent in his managerial approach to all other facets of the game, and yet either leave someone in too long or yank them too soon when it comes to the pitching. Just makes me want to drive to Atlanta all the way from Iowa, sit on Bobby’s doorstep, and ask him, “Why?”
I guess I’ll never know.
I’m out, have a pleasant evening my fellow Brave’s fans, may visions of good relief pitching be in your dreams, and the evil known as the Mets not enter into you sub-concious mind while you are sleeping.
good night.
I agree with KC. The offense was acting liked they were hung over. The Braves should have blown them out tonight. They had a bunch of chances. When McCann hit into that DP with the base loaded I knew we were in trouble. What a tough loss.
Mac,
I have had a terrible night, not good at all. I read your post and saw we lsot and felt a little worse, then I saw who was in the dog house and it made me smile and feel a little better. Thanks Mac!
I think McCann should get doghouse immunity this year.
McCann has to be getting tired
Let’s see:
Josh Towers with the Blue Jays was 1-8 with a 9.00 ERA and the Braves lost.
Russ Ortiz hadn’t won in 20-something starts and had a quality start against the Braves, though he didn’t win (Braves lost, no-decision.)
Two-hit complete game shut-out from Pedro Astacio who at the time had a 5.56 ERA. His next start against the Phillies he gave up six earned runs in two innings.
The Braves are the only team to lose twice to Shawn Chacon this year.
There are more examples, but what else can one say? Every NL team should keep one horrible pitcher around for when they face the Braves.
Also, if you get Turner South, they’re replaying the game and it’s in the fourth. So you can see the Tony Pena, Jr. home run in the fifth again. I still can’t believe he did that.
Maybe Torborg should stay in the Doghouse and we should have some sort of other structure for the players.
Chipper, Andruw, and especially Smoltz are doghouse-immune. I would be reluctant to put McCann, Renteria, or Wickman in unless they had a stretch of bad games.
that game wasnt very fun to watch – I had a feeling that we would end up losing it somehow the whole game after all of the blown opportunities. Every other day I think the Braves are back in it, and then they decide not to be
Maybe you can get someone to set up a flash game where the offending player is paraded around on a donkey and we get to throw rotten fruit at them. Or have them in one those colonial contraptions where their head and arms are locked down, stocks, I think they are called. And there is always the whipping post, per the Allman Bros.
I’m very happy to see the Torborg doghouse. He is a maddeningly boring and bad broadcaster. None of the other Braves broadcasters who irritate other people such as Chip Carey and Ron Gant get on my nerves, but Torborg makes me want to throw things at my TV.
Wait…is that jenny??? I guess, now that the Red Sox are d-u-n-n, that she’s got nothing better to do than cheer for the Braves again.
On a related note, how about this trade idea:
Andruw for Bedard, Patterson, and Live Arm X.
Here is a question I ask myself all the time. Is Torborg worse the Paciorek? It’s almost a koan.
I had long thought that Paciorek was the worst commentator in the history of the game. However, Tom seemed to make Rathbun better by contrast, and I’m not sure why. Unfortunately, Rathbun seems to really enjoy his conversations with Torborg, and makes him worse. Therefore, I think Jeff is worse, but he might be better with a partner who wasn’t his lap dog. I also feel sorry for any team he managed. It’s understandable that Ron Gant’s commentary isn’t good. He was paid to play the game, not understand it. Torborg doesn’t have this excuse.
Just a couple games ago mccann went 3-4 with 3 2 out rbis and won the game. Bad games happen, it’s not because of tiredness, I’d be shocked if he didn’t come out and have a great game today.
See I told you my boy could hit at this level!
McCann is having probably his worst series this season and it could be due to the fact that he’s just been getting beat up behind the plate. He’s been our best hitter this year, other than Chipper, so I wont bash him too bad, but I hate hitters that have the bases loaded and they swing at the 1st pitch. Didn’t Chipper and Andruw both walk and then McCann becomes Frenchy for some reason. At that point in the game I had a bad feeling about our outcome. Our only run is from Tony freakin Pena solo hr.
Who do you blame? Baez for walking to straight and giving up two hits or Bobby for leaving him in the game that long?
Positives: I like Prado and I would like to see him get most of the playing time from here on out. We have 4 2nd baseman and Marcus has too go at years end!
Rangers outfielder Carlos Lee owns a 100-acre ranch outside of Houston, but his expected change of agents from Adam Katz to Scott Boras, confirmed by a source with knowledge of his situation, could hinder his chances of signing with the Astros as a free agent…
Other than Andruw resigning w/us, I wish people would stay away from Boras until he drops his asking price for his players. Its getting rediculous!
“I wish people would stay away from Boras until he drops his asking price for his players.”
They already do:
“J. D. Drew was another Boras client whose original team could not sign him. Boras’s demand was an $11 million contract from the Philadelphia Phillies; the Phillies’ offer was $3 million. Drew ended up having to hold out, playing the rest of the season in the independent Northern League. Drew re-entered the draft the following season and signed with the St. Louis Cardinals for $8 million.
In addition, many teams avoid drafting Boras clients in baseball’s amateur draft because Boras often secures higher than average contracts for them as well. For example, the New York Mets refused to draft Rick Ankiel with the sixth pick in the 1997 draft. Ankiel was instead picked by the Cardinals with the 72nd choice.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Boras
hopefully Andruw can give him the wrong directions again
If Scott Boras is such a bad agent, why do players sign with him? He’s very good at what he does, and he knows how valuable each player is. He’s no worse than any other agent, he just has a public reputation because of some of his big-name clients. That’s why teams deal with him. Schuerholz hates him, but he doesn’t seem to have good relations with any agent.
“If Scott Boras is such a bad agent, why do players sign with him?”
$$$$$
“He’s no worse than any other agent, he just has a public reputation because of some of his big-name clients.”
His reputation is his unwillingness to ever really consider contract extensions and always take his clients to free agency then demand an ungodly amount of money.
I think that the problem with Boras is that at times he refuses to see anything beyond getting the biggest payday his client can get, with no regard to the possibility that 80 cents now is worth more than a dollar a year from now. That means doing stupid things like holding a player out and putting him back in the draft. And he is far too willing to gamble on a big free agency payoff. Kevin Millwood wound up having to go year-to-year for a period of time because Boras wouldn’t sign an extension with the Phillies. That worked out well but only because Millwood’s career rebounded; he just as easily could have washed out of baseball at a time when he could have been making $10 million a year.
Boras keeps his clients by getting these big payoffs, but they don’t all get them. But if they don’t, he’ll live, they’re the guys who have to get real jobs.
Jarrod Saltamacchia, Anthony Lerew, Joey Devine, Will Startup, Sean White, Yunel Escobar, and Josh Burrus, are all going to play for the Peoria Javelinas of the Arizona Fall League. Does this exclude any of them from being September call-ups?
Maybe they should change the name to Braves West.
How about what the player is actually worth? Humility needs to have a big place in people’s lives, but Bora’s ego/greed kind of keeps that from getting anywhere near him.
What does an agent do exactly?
Middle Manism at its finest(or worst).
How bad did Gonzalez make us look last night?
“Does this exclude any of them from being September call-ups?”
I was wondering that too. Does this mean no chance of Lerew and Devine call-ups come September or what?
“Danys was perspiring a lot out there,” Cox said. “I took the ball from him and it was wet. He sweats a lot. It’s hard to throw strikes when it’s wet and I think that had something to do with it. He’s been lights out recently.”
Braves catcher Brian McCann, who uncharacteristically did not do the job in two prime run-producing opportunities earlier in the game, said the ball was unusually wet when he threw the ball back to Baez.
We need to keep Devine away from this team until he is completely ready!!
“How bad did Gonzalez make us look last night?”
1-2-3 inning against Chipper, Andruw and McCann. He is lights out, either 22/22 or 23/23 in saves chances this year and currently leading the majors with most consecutive saves (26.)
How does such a bad team have such a great closer?
I wonder if Scott Boras would have let Chipper reconstruct his contract for less money like he did in the offseason.
no pressure, or at least that was Kolb’s excuse
I don’t know if that’s unreasonable, Mac. Maybe the cost of a free agency year is far too expensive, even for a pitcher. There’s a limit to how much someone should pay for insurance. He certainly hasn’t shied away from long term contracts once a player is in the open market.
As for draft picks, Boras’ strategy has been pretty successful. You have to look at the difference in signing bonus money vs. the chance that the player would actually reach the majors, play in it for six years, and lose one free agency year to being a year behind in his development. Sure, a Stephen Drew might end up losing some money being a year behind, but I’m sure all of the players who never make the bigs are happy to have double their originally offered signing bonus.
Boras doesn’t often get more than a player is worth. Most of the time, the player is worth more than you think, and Boras just gets closer to his value than other agents.
The rule is that a player needs to have less than one year of ML service time, so any of them could be called up, though several aren’t on the 40-man roster and certainly won’t be called up. Players I expect to be called up are:
Lance Cormier (already announced)
Brayan Pena
Scott Thorman
Brian Jordan will be activated from the DL, plus Aybar if he is able to go. Kyle Davies will also be activated. He’s on the 60-day DL but I’d guess Ramirez or Thomson will take his place there to clear a roster spot. Moylan might be called up again for whatever reason, and Phil Stockman could come off the DL.
Devine, Burrus, and Lerew are on the 40-man, the others are not.
well, if we cant take 2 of 3 from these guys w/ Smoltz and Huddy on the mound, and at home, our WC chase is over. What’s the Vulture’s contract look like. Maybe he can bring some trade value if he keeps up his SP performances. I think I actually like him as a starter. He’s been good so far.
Next date on the calendar. Aug 31st, South Carolina vs Miss St, its almost here boys
I am so sick of Lance Cormier getting brought back up here. Why can’t they just leave his sorry butt in Richmond?
If not even the Tigers wanted Sosa last year in the trade for Farnsworth, I hardly think there would be any interest in the Vulture regardless of how he will do as a starter for the remainder of this season.
Where is Saltamacchia playing right now? I went to miss. website and he’s not listed as a C on the roster.
Paciorek is better than Torbore!
I’ll take Torborg over Gant.
And he is far too willing to gamble on a big free agency payoff.
When a guy signs with Boras he is essentially announcing to the world: “Money is priority #1 for me. It is numbers 2-10 as well. I will chase every last dollar available and If that means moving my family across the country or taking some huge gamble in the name of a negotiating ploy than so be it.”
I think it’s dumb but it’s their career. The list of guys that have been burned by Boras’s tough negotating/raving ego is pretty long.
I agree, Robert, and I would argue that Alex Rodriguez has suffered from the consequences. He’s a guy who just wants to be loved, but he never will because he went for the money. Choosing Boras for an agent would be a much better idea for someone like Albert Belle or Barry Bonds, who really don’t care whether the fans like them or hate them. Harold Reynolds got it right: Alex Rodriguez just wants everyone to like him, and he made the wrong choice of agents for that.
J, yes he is.
http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?t=t_ros&did=milb&cid=430
I can’t believe a human being would ever want more money. Most of the people I see on a daily basis are all about giving. “Oh you want this car, I’ll knock $5,000 off the price.” “You’re asking $200,000 for your house but I think it’s worth $250K, so here’s your check.”
It’s called human nature. People prefer more to less, no matter how much they have.
I wonder what’s the chance of Gregor Blanco getting called up?
so who here still thinks the braves are going to take the wild card?
I wonder if Boras actually gets more money for his clients than they would have otherwise? The fact that his clients get big dollar contracts isn’t that instructive, since he tends to have many of the high value players as clients. There’s more to a contract than just the dollars too, like amenities and other perks. I don’t know, but just have a hunch, that Boras is just a glitzy talker with a big ego and that his clients don’t fare much, if any, better than any other agents’ clients.
I’ll also bet Boras takes more than his fair share of the contract in contingency fees, compared to many agents.
No one, Braveheart, who has been watching since June 1.
I do.
I also must mention I haven’t taken my medicine today.:(
“It’s called human nature. People prefer more to less, no matter how much they have.”
Tell that to Chipper Jones.
When you make as much money as some of these players, it’s not like a few million is that big a difference to their comfort of living and well-being. Do you think a few million more would matter to Bill Gates, George Soros, Peter Lewis or some other American multi-billionaire?
“who here still thinks the braves are going to take the wild card?”
Probably no one with any real confidence, NY METS.
It’s called human nature. People prefer more to less, no matter how much they have.
Please. There are things I could do in my life to acquire more money and I don’t do them. I could switch jobs to a competor for a 20% bump, but I don’t because I like it here. I could take a higher position in Anaheim but for more money but I don’t because my kid likes her school and her friends. Most people make decisions like these. When we see athletes doing the opposite and chasing every dollar no matter what, it’s pretty disgusting.
You are obviously very smart JC, but that was one dumb comment.
You need quit what you are doing and get cracking on your Nobel Prize then.
And that’s two.
With baseball players and most athletes it is some what different than the rest of us. They have a short work span (save Julio) and may only get one shot for big money. If thatmean having to go from Atlanta to LA, then you almost have to do it. Most of these guys have little more than a high school degree (if that) and when they get out of baseball they aren’t going to be able to make a contribution to society. I know $8 million is a lot, but if you have a $4.5 million dollar home and three cars and can only earn an income for 10-15 years of your life, then a few million dollars more is really a lot.
that’s there fault for buying a 4.5 million dollar home or being stupid enough to believe that they need that home
It is like winning the lottery, most of those poeple go broke. If people are paying billions to see them play, why shouldn’t they make a lot of money?
$4.5 million is really not that expensive in a good neighborhood in today’s market.
That being said, there is no way that any baseball player who reaches free agency should ever fall below upper-middle class, due to the MLB pension plan. The only reason that baseball players sometimes do see their post-playing finances collapse is poor planning, which is the greatest indictment of player agents I can think of. If they were actually concerned about their clients and not their own fees, these things wouldn’t happen.
I know $8 million is a lot, but if you have a $4.5 million dollar home and three cars
The Gospal according to Patrick Ewing.
You are, of course, right, there is more of a sense of urgency to an athelte’s career then a lay person’s career. An athlete is always just one injury away from his current contract being his last. Which is why I would never use Boras with his burn percentage being pretty high. I don’t want him using my negotiation to pump his ego or settle a score.
Why are you insulting me Robert? I didn’t invent the concept of scarcity derived from unlimited human wants and scarce resources. I am serious when I say you should get cracking on a Nobel since this assumption is the foundation off which the discipline of economics is based. If that statement is wrong (and I don’t believe it is) your beef is with more than me.
Because your #54 was flip, so you got a flip response. I mean this is not true in many cases:
People prefer more to less, no matter how much they have.
so why even throw it out there? It might be a nice tool in predict the behavior of society, but it certainly can’t be applied on an individual level which is what we were really talking about.
And is saying someone is really smart but made a dumb comment really an insult? I mean everyone says dumb things, big deal. I phrased that as gently as I could. By fairly-anonymous-message-board standards that practically a compliment.
I guess I’ll just stand by my dumb statement.
Okay, stop this right now.
No fighting or you have to go sit with Torbore in the dog house
Ok. My bad I guess. The ‘no arguing with JC’ light must have been on and I didn’t notice.
I’ll leave now.
wow, arguing on the net. Is there anything more exciting? Who thinks S Carolina puts up about 40-50 on Miss St. I dont personally care about either team, but I love SEC football
Jay10,
He’s not listed on the Mississippi braves website roster and the last time he played for them was August 12th.
Does anyone know where he is at right now?
Saltalamacchia is with the U. S. Olympic qualifying team.