Rumors, yada yada

Oh, who knows? The latest rumor out of New York is at least more plausible than the last one. Supposedly, Andruw would be traded to the Yankees for Javier Vazquez and a pitching prospect. I don’t really believe this either, and I still think that the Yankees will throw so much money at Beltran that he’ll go there against his better judgment. Anyway, the Braves would then re-sign Drew, move him to center, and sign Jermaine Dye or Richard Hidalgo to play right. Whatever. Everything out of Atlanta says that the Braves intend to keep Andruw, but I’ve been burned before.

Jesse Garcia signed a minor-league deal with San Diego, the same franchise that ended the Lockhart Era. I love the Padres.

30 thoughts on “Rumors, yada yada”

  1. Where exactly did this rumor come from? I haven’t seen it.

    It does make more sense than dealing for Kevin Brown, because we all know that Bobby loves Vazquez and the salaries match up about right. But I still don’t think Andruw’s going anywhere, either.

  2. I got it off Usenet, where I lurk, they got it from a rumor website. It’s a rumor, these are always floating around, I wouldn’t take it too seriously but I felt the need to post something. Even though the Kevin Brown stuff has died down, Andruw to the Yankees hasn’t, and the Braves have always had interest in Vasquez. It may be nothing but someone putting two and two together, but I think that the first “two” (the Braves wanting to deal Andruw) is more like .02.

  3. I’m up here in New York now, have been for the last few months, and I got to say that NO ONE up here is talking about landing Andruw. I haven’t read one line in one daily about it. However, since the going’s been slow on the hot stove, I’ll add one or two more comments: no matter how much Bernie’s slipped in center, the Yankees have not shown themselves to be a team overly concerned about defense. I think that the only reason why there’s talk of moving Bernie to a full-time DH role is because Beltran is THE premier free agent this offseason, and the Yanks like to make big splashes whenever they can. If they don’t get Beltran, I don’t see them making a move for some other center-fielder just so that they can move Bernie. And that goes even if the center fielder is a guy as sweet as Andruw.

    The Yanks might want to drop Vazquez, but if so, that’s the owner talking, not the coaches. Now this is a real possibility, and Vazquez at $10 million a year would be, I think, a sweet pickup for the Braves. But if it happens, I see it as part of some sort of 3-way, with the Braves getting Vazzy and dealing some young-ish talent to Arizona. Just to pull a name out of the hat, seeing as how Arizona got burned on giving up on a line-drive firstbasemen, I could see them having some interest in LaRoche. Do I think it’s going to happen? No. But I think it’s more likely than Vazquez for Andruw.

  4. Oh, and Mac–

    You’ll be thanking the Pads for signing Garcia? Well, fair enough. But tonight, I’ll be singing the praises of Mr. Jim Bowden. Way to take one for the team, Jim. I’m been waiting for the National League to get its own version of Chuck LaMarr.

  5. That was basically my guess after the Yanks were eliminated — Johnson to NY, Vasquez and cash to the Braves, prospects and a real major leaguer to Arizona. But nobody’s been talking about it.

  6. I don’t see the team unloading Andruw, as much as anything for strategic reasons. Once they unload AJ

  7. I think the Braves would like to unload Andruw’s contract, but it’s so much above market value now that it will be hard unless they essentially give him away. Andruw would not be a good fit for NY because his erratic hitting does not work in the AL and especially with Steinbrenner. If getting rid of Andruw allowed the Braves to resign Drew, I think it would be a good deal because, at this point, I think Drew is more likely to be a dominant player. On the other hand, without knowing if they could sign Drew, they can’t really trade Andruw without getting a significant return.

  8. I seen on a couple of sites that the braves were interested in Tim Hudson who is an Auburn grad. The deal is Giles, Meyer and Jurries for Hudson. The braves would then be after Polonco to take over 2b. This makes alot of sense to me.

    There are also multiple listings of smoltz back to to the rotation and the braves signing benetiz. IF both those deals went through, we would have a great starting 5 with hampton taking over the 5th starters spot, and Horacio taking over the loogy role.

    From what I have seen estimates are 3mill each for Polonco and Benetiz. Hudson would take over Ortiz’s money, so that would leave you about 4 mil of Byrd’s money to add to J.D.’s contract, wooing him for about 8-9 mil a year, which I think he would take.

  9. I’d hate to trade Giles. Schuerholtz called him the “Braves best hitter” when he went down early last season, and he’s only 26. He’s got a better chance than anybody to be the leagues best second-sacker next season.

  10. I think the Braves would like to unload Andruw’s contract, but it’s so much above market value now that it will be hard unless they essentially give him away

    Out of curiosity, just how far above market do you think Andruw’s salary is? His career numbers aren’t that different from beltran’s. I’ll grant that Beltran has showed more this year and last, but he also has played in better hitters’ parks. I think in terms of their perceived defense it’s a wash (as opposed to actual defense). Beltran’s the superior baserunner, though.

    I don’t think Andruw’s value is in the same neighborhood as Beltran’s, but I don’t think he’s all that far below it. I think we Braves fans tend to underestimate Andruw’s value because we compare it to expectations. But try to look at it as another team might – they could have Beltran and be in a bidding war with the Yankees; or for less they could get a slightly lesser hitter, similar defense (again, I’m talking perception), signed for fewer years than Beltran is asking, who’s shown good durability.

  11. When was the last time a Braves trade rumor came true? It always seems that all JS trades come out of nowhere. I would be shocked if a trade happens that gets leaked to the media. Even Peter Gammons!

  12. I don’t think Horacio is a candidate for LOOGY — he’s a young pitcher with a (brief) history of success as a starter. I would hope the Braves have him targeted as a starter again next season, regardless of their other machinations.

  13. The rumors of a Braves’-A’s trade are humorous to the extent that JS doesn’t leak much and I get the impression that Beane leaks all the time (if not directly to the press, through other baseball officials who leak directly to the press).

    I like Zito the least of Oakland’s big three, but he is pretty good. Trading Giles would be a mistake in my estimation. He’s too central to a team that needs to maintain an offensive presence.

    I think Brown will be a Brave and the Braves will get him basically for free. Andruw will be here as well unless JS gets completely bowled over by the loser of the Beltran competition. But even there, the biggest winner might be JD Drew, who becomes the next best all-around OF on the market once Beltran has landed.

  14. “Out of curiosity, just how far above market do you think Andruw’s salary is? ”

    I think he is probably, in today’s market, $3-4 million above where he should be. Sheffield is at about $13 mil and there is no way Andruw would get that today based on his offensive numbers. Now, when he signed the deal, the market was different so I’m not criticizing the Braves for doing that at the time. I agree that Beltran is probably overrated and I bet he won’t get as much as Boras is trying to say.

  15. Reading up on Fox sports and cnnsi online, and they are suggesting an Andrew for Gullien trade with the Angels. Am I the only who actually likes this trade. Guillen is set to make 3 mill this upcoming year and had a .290 avg with 27 HRs last year, and is known as one of the best arms in the game. Right field anyone. It would also clear up alot of money to throw at JD and move him to Center.

  16. Guillen is trouble with a capital T. Let’s just keep Andruw and his pitiful 100+ rbis and 30-40 homers and gold glove defense every year. It’s a shame he can’t walk 200 times a year and have an OBP above .500. He’d be a decent player if he could do that, and also maybe average 60 homers a year and save a baby from a burning building every once in a while.

    All that to say I think Andruw is worth what we are paying him. I’m not sure anyone in the majors plays a better or more consistant CF than he has year in and year out. I like Drew, but I believe we are better off in the long run with Andruw and in spite of his faults. Drew will probably lok for a short term (1-2 year) deal that allows him to show that he can remain healthy and then go get a longer term deal.

  17. Let’s just keep Andruw and his pitiful 100+ rbis and 30-40 homers and gold glove defense every year.

    I dunno, you think we can win with a guy like that? ;)

  18. Well, I didn’t see Andruw have 100 RBIs this year or even 30 home runs. I saw a guy who struck out over 140 times, who runs very little now and who is batting seventh in the batting order. So, the Braves are paying $13 mil for a number seven hitter? He is a great outfielder, but I doubt that his defense is worth THAT much.

    I’m not saying he is a bad player. He is just not a great player, but he is being paid like a great player.

  19. Okay, so only 29 homers and 91 rbis. That’s better than Larry Walker, Jeff Bagwell, Magglio Ordonez, Derek Jeter, Bernie Williams, Mike Piazza, Sammy Sosa (Rbis) and Shawn Green, . In the American League, no CF had more HR, and only Johnny Damon had more rbis (94). Of the NL CFs, only Beltran, Finley and Edmunds had more Home Runs and rbis and Cameron only had one more HR that Andruw. So I guess he’s not so bad after all.

    He hasn’t been running since 2000, but neither has Chipper. Here’s something to think about. Andruw has only 34 fewer home runs than Griffey Jr. did at the same age (before Griffey went on the injury spree), and Griffey was a player of the Century.

    It’s always tough to accept when expectations aren’t met, but all-in-all Andruw has meant a lot to the Braves over the years. He got his contract at the right time and we can’t fault him for that. It’s the same reason Pudge Rodriquez could only get $10 million/year after he basically took the Marlins to the World Series and helped them win it even though he’s arguably the best overall catcher to ever play (offense, defense, leadership, calling a game).

  20. I don’t think his place in the batting order has much to do with anything other than that’s where Bobby chose to bat him. No, he didn’t have a great year, but his established level of ability is right where bwarrend pegged him. Edmonds and Beltran are the only two CFs I’d rather have than Andruw.

  21. Oh well, Guillen just got traded to the Expos so I guess we don’t have to worry about getting him now. I guess we’re stuck with Andruw a little longer.

  22. Nothing seems to stir up more emotion than talking about Andruw Jones. From an emotional standpoint I would find it hard to see Andruw in another uniform. He has been a major contributor to one of baseball’s most successful franchises for a decade. I love and hate watching the guy play at the same time. In one game he can be scintillating and awful from one inning to the next. The fact that he started being so good so young has worked against him. From ages 19 through 27 he was just a little plate discipline away from being the next outfield superstar. Now that he is 29 with an established level of performance he is a disappointment to some. Back when the Braves offered Andruw’s contract to him they were gambling that the rapid escalation in salaries occuring then would continue and that Andruw would take that next step to superstardom. That neither occured has led us to the current situation with the Braves actively shopping him in the hope that they can entice/fool someone into taking Andruw based on the perception that he still has limitless potential. They fully realize that no one will pay 39 million over the next 3 years for a .265/.345/.460 outfielder no matter how good the perception of his defense is. As much as I like Andruw, the Braves have eliminate the emotion and deal from a strictly business point of view. The strictly business point of view says that of the big 3 salaries for 2005, Andruw is the most tradeable and replaceable. Its that simple. All that being said, I’ll have to change my diaper if I don’t see Andruw patrolling CF for the Braves next spring.

  23. Andruw is the perfect example why we should not rush Marte and Francouer. On the other hand, we have to admit the fact that there is no better overall CF out there besides Edmonds and Beltran. I don’t trust Drew in the CF because I am sure he will hurt his hammy three or four times a year playing at CF full time. Don’t trust Boras, I think it is much better for Drew’s long-term career to play at RF and part-time CF.

    At the meantime, Mets lock up Benson, which is a great news considering I don’t want the Braves to sign him. $7.5M per year for a 30 years old pitcher with a 4.0 ERA?! That’s insane…

  24. I don’t dislike Andruw, but Johnny is right. Face the facts. The Braves are a mid-market team now, with half their payroll tied up in 3 or 4 players. I don’t fault Andruw for getting the money, but he is not worth it in this market. I think his place in the batting order does reflect his value; Bobby didn’t bat him seventh just because he felt like; he did it because Andruw was not productive enough in the middle of the order. Ask yourself who would pay $13 mm for a number seven hitter unless he was someone like Ozzie Smith. Certainly not for an outfielder. If the Braves had a $100 mm payroll or something like that, I would say, sure keep Andruw. But I would frankly rather have Drew. No matter how good Andruw’s defense his (and I acknowledge he is probably one of the best outfielders of all time), you just can’t pay $13 mm to an outfielder for his defense when his bat is not good enough to hit in the middle of the order. How are you going to improve the team if you keep Andruw? Most of the guys compared to Andruw in the previous post are either declining or had bad years. Andruw is supposed to be in the prime of his career, yet he can’t hit curve balls, strikes out a huge number of times, and bats in the bottom of the order.

    I can’t understand the argument that, yes, he hasn’t lived up to expectations but so what. The point is, he is getting paid as if he did live up to expectations. The Braves are not in a financial position anymore (at least Time Warner says they aren’t) to afford a luxury like Andruw anymore. You can’t ignore the effect the contract has on building the rest of the team.

  25. Why does nobody blame Chipper? He makes more money than Andruw, he hit worse than Andruw, his defense at 3B and LF is worse than Andruw at CF, he is older and Andruw, Chipper was absolutely terrible in the playoff, Andruw was absolutely awesome in the playoff…

    I hope you guys understand we are all talking about Andruw because he has TRADE VALUE. Nobody will take Chipper. The day the Braves will be able to spend freely is when Marte take over 3B from Chipper and we are released from Chipper’s contract.

  26. I disagree with you. Chipper will be much more servicable at 3rd base. Marte still has a year or two and then you could trade Chipper. Chipper’s reputation among the fans has gone down in recent years because of his extracirricular activites, and his not taking a leadership role until this year and the fact he did a bad imitation of Ryan Klesko in RF the last couple of years. He could become all-star caliber next year. For him to have such a horrible start then lead the team in rbis is nothing short of amazing, but the teams that really need him are limited. The Yankees don’t need him, the RedSox don’t need him, The Angels have nothing to trade with. If Arizona would take on his salary, I’d take Randy Johnson for him straight up.

    His stock is down slightly, but look for a big rebound this year. The other reason people have talked about Andruw is good CF are in short supply.

  27. KC. There is no blame. Just facts. Andruw Jones is a hell of a player. He is just lucky that he signed his contract when he did. Remember the story? Coming off a record arbitration award he was told that he would be traded the next season if he and the Braves couldn’t come to some kind of long term agreement. Against the wishes of his agent, ahem, Scott Boras, he and the Braves signed a long term contract that assured him that he would stay in Atlanta and assured the Braves that when he became the next Ken Griffey Jr. that he would be affordable. At the time it looked win win for both parties. Now that the folly of long term big dollar contracts has been exposed and Andruw has become Andruw and not Jr the Braves are most assuredly trying their asses off to trade him. The Braves couldn’t have seen the market correction that occured and are trying to rectify the situation. They won’t just dump him. They’ll try to get some value because like I said he is a very good player, just not a great one. In the end I think that he’ll play out his contract with the Braves so don’t worry he won’t be going anywhere.

    As for Chipper, he is 32 and has I believe one more year and the an option on his contract. This was good signing because Chipper has been what Andruw hasn’t. A middle of the order difference maker that can carry a team. Although his overall 2004 season stats scream major performance decline he fought through injury and was a major force in our second half run to the NL East title. I never thought that moving him to LF was a good idea. As a power hitting 3b he is worth the money. His hamstring injury may have been one of the most fortuitous events of last season. Out of that injury we got a power hitting third baseman, we found a LF platoon that produced a .304/.371/.487 season and strengthend our bench. When he is on he is the Brave’s best offensive player. For that reason alone the Braves won’t trade him. Then there is the fact that he’ll be 33 next season and will be owed over 15 million dollars, making him virtually untradeable.

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