373 thoughts on “Boring game thread: Aug 18, Boring Nats at Braves”

  1. I am looking forward the gnashing of teeth and the rending of garments when the terms of the Lee deal are announced.

  2. Tonight’s lineup: Infante – 4 Heyward – 9 Prado – 5 McCann – 2 Hinske – 3 Cabrera – 7 Gonzalez – 6 Ankiel – 8 Hudson – 1

  3. The point is that, 20 or not, Heyward is a regular on a pennant contending team. He isn’t hitting much and has become a drag on the offense. I’m quite willing to concede he is likely to be a great player, but he isn’t right now. I’m not saying he sucks or let’s get rid of him, but I think people are counting on him to get hot and hit home runs and it just doesn’t look like that’s going to happen.

  4. Well if the braves do aquire Lee and not play Glaus, how much money will we save on Glaus’s plate appearance bonuses. That is a good 300-600 thousand smackers

  5. Lets get the job done–so long as we don’t trade J-Terd–I am having too much fun with the name….

  6. Marc, I just don’t agree that he’s a drag on the offense. Yes, he’s had a bad couple weeks. But his couple weeks before that were pretty torrid, and on the whole he’s having a fine season. He’s not hitting homers, it’s true. But he’s hitting line drives and getting on base a lot.

  7. @7, He is having the best offensive year of any outfielder on the team. That is not a drag.

  8. 10 —
    From what I can find with Glaus at 466 PAs now. If he wasn’t to get to 500 the Braves would save 1.3M.

    “* performance bonuses: $0.35M each for 400, 450, 500 PAs; $0.4M for 550 PAs; $0.55M for 600 PAs”

  9. heyward will be fine. his approach at the plate, his eye, and his bat speed will pay off. with that being said, i dont like him as a #2 hitter. imo, he’s a #3 hitting against righties and #7 hitter against lefties. there will be a day where he’s a mainstay in the 3 hole, but i dont think he’s there yet.

  10. He was OPSing .915 for July, and only .575 for August… bad couple of weeks, but for August his BaBIP is only .182… I don’t fully understand what that stat means about a hitter, but that seems rather hit unlucky to me. Don’t think he’s going to get that ROY award unless he pours it on in Sept, but let’s not bench him just yet.

  11. “Drag” is a bit strong. I would reserve that term for Ankiel, Glaus or McLouth. I literally dread seeing any of those guys come up. With Heyward, he at least hits some balls hard and runs the bases well.

  12. @16
    i think he’ll get to 500 plate appearances, but i highly doubt he’ll reach the next 2. the braves will save a little less than a million dollars if they make glaus the rh power bat off the bench.

  13. Unfortunately for Heyward, I don’t think many ROY voters consider age. I guess it’s the old issue whether ROY is for the best rookie or the the best rookie season.

  14. Stupid question that probably everyone else knows the answer to: Do all minor league players included in a waiver trade have to pass through waivers as far as the other team, or is it just Major League players?

  15. @21, It would be weird to give Heyward ROY when Posey is putting up Ivan-in-his-prime performance both with his bat and behind the plate.

  16. @23, my guess would be that anyone on the 40-man would have to pass through waivers. At least, that would make sense.

    It’s not a dumb question, though. The rules for these matters are in a binder that isn’t distributed to the general public, so people like us have to work off second-hand reports.

  17. Just skimming stats; Posey, Stanton, Garcia, or Strasburg seem more likely for ROY than Heyward (though Strasburg is fading/has faded I think)… all assuming he doesn’t turn it up and end up with a last 6 weeks like his first 6 weeks.

  18. Strasburg has yet to be as dominant as his first start versus the AAAA Pittsburgh Pirates. I’m not saying he’s not any good, but Bob Costas’ proclamation of Strasburg being a “historical” pitcher isn’t really flying right now.

  19. adding to the thought @16

    let me get this straight…

    the braves might make money on this trade? troy glaus has an extra 1.35 million left on the table for performance bonuses. currently, glaus is at 466 plate appearances and his next bonus kicks in at 500 (400k). If he becomes the bat off the bench, he’ll likely meet the 500 pa, but not the 550 or 600, saving the braves 950k.

    Also, if the braves are sending 2 prospects to the cubs (schafer and some other player the org has soured on), then the cubs will likely pick up much of lee’s remaining salary, thus making money for the braves, upgrading the lineup, upgrading the bench, and getting rid of excess.

    i like it.

  20. @28, I don’t like it because it just reminds me that we’re a team that sells prospects off for cash, and the Cubs are a team that buys them.

    Note: I hate subject/verb agreement with team names. Cubs are a team that buy them? Cubs is a team that buys them? Ack.

  21. How does it work with a no-trade clause if someone is claimed off of waivers and the original team just lets them go like Rios to the White Sox? That’s not technically a trade so would they still have the right to refuse the claim?

  22. Hey Bfredrec,
    Are you Charles Pilsbury? I used to work with a guy who had a record label named Breast Fed REcords and his email address was bfedrec.

    This is Ian, one of the old Catfish guys.

  23. 28—Only if you assume that Glaus wasn’t going to be released or DL’d prior to reaching those incentives, anyway.

    But if the Braves see it the way you do, maybe they’re about to make a play for Manny with all of this excess cash!

  24. 1. Infante 2B, 2. Heyward RF 3. Prado 3B, 4. McCann 2, 5. Hinske 1B, 6. Cabrera LF, 7. Gonzalez SS, 8. Ankiel CF, 9. Hudson P

    No Glaus

  25. Heyman at SI.com is reporting that Derrek Lee cleared waivers.

    This looks like it will actually happen.

  26. Joey,

    I’m a member of the Concerned Spellers of America and even I refuse to get into the subject/verb agreement fight.

    The Cubs “are” an historical embarrassment.

    The Heat “is” a bunch of jerks.

    And it’s “R B eyes”, for God’s sake.

  27. @29 Funny, it reminds me that we’re a team that has extra prospects to sell off for cash, and the Cubs are a team that needs them.

  28. 29 – We’re a team that both sells prospects (D. Lee trade, Teixeira trade) and buys them (Vazquez trade, Yunel trade, Renteria trade). Good teams will do both as the situation dictates. Right now, we need to use a few prospects to make the big club better. Teams that never do that are generally bad. I mean, would you rather be the Cubs?

  29. DOB: “Cox just got a call in his office, looks like something could be done really soon.”

    Edit: The Cubs entire rotation and 3/4 of its lineup are major league veterans from other organizations.

  30. @41, why’d you have to bring up the Teixeira trade? We were all in a good mood here. Heyward’s awesome, the Braves are about to get Derrek Lee, Dark Chocolate Kit Kats are still on sale. Then Negative Nancy has to bring up the Teixeira trade. Thanks.

  31. I really like this deal, and just don’t see a whole lot of negatives here. We remove Glaus from the everyday lineup (while likely still keeping him on the bench), we add an everyday bat to the lineup in Derrek Lee, we likely don’t give up any serious prospects, we improve our bench (again, assuming Glaus stays)…. It’s a win all the way around.

  32. Well, if we do get Lee I sure hope the deal comes with all 33 vertebrae intact and in working order.

  33. Well, I’m over the Teixeira trade, so it doesn’t bum me out to think about it. Some people just can’t let go of prospects, though. I’m sure there’s someone out there still grumbling about Andy Marte.

    Are the dark chocolate kit kats really that good?

  34. The Tex trade doesn’t bother me. The JD Drew one does, a lot. Such is the power of hindsight.

    EDIT: @49 – Thought that would wake you up!

  35. Nice one by Fat Boy there. Yeesh!

    EDIT: Note that this impending disaster is currently unfolding on MLB Network, for anyone who’s interested in watching the Brewers crap the bed when they could help us out.

  36. Make that, the “Brewers” are having a rough 9th inning. They’re trying awfully hard to blow the game.

  37. @51 I remember. Dark days. Losing Butler, Behenna, and Jacoby (Jacoby ended up being a solid major league player, too) really hurt for a long time.

  38. Wasn’t the Barker/Butler trade precipitated by a trade the Dodgers either made or were going to make?

  39. Warning: Very long ballpark travelogue ahead. If you’re more interested in Lee/prospect rumors, skip ahead. :)

    I just had the pleasure of visiting four ballparks in four days with my dad, his buddy from work, and my buddy from college: Nationals Park, Citi Field, Yankee Stadium, and finally Fenway. A couple observations:

    1) Nationals Park sucks out loud. I know they’re a small market team and very new, but the park is really nothing special (minus a cool scoreboard and the goofy Presidents race) and there is NOTHING around the ballpark. We had to walk almost a mile to find a Five Guys (which is a great burger, don’t get me wrong, but we were hoping for a Nationals bar or something). We had time to kill before the game (and we just parked the car in a $25 lot!!) so I tried to Google places around the park to occupy our time. All I found was a Washington Post article complaining about how there’s nothing around the park. :) It looks like they’re building a few things, but I expected a little more.

    The fans are also absurdly stupid when it comes to baseball. Their observations about the game and the expectations they had for a last place team were baffling. Marquis got lit up and the Diamondbacks won easily.

    I drove to DC from NY that morning at 7:00 AM, got in around 12:30 to pick up the other guys, and drove back to NY afterward. A very long day to say the least.

    2) Next was Mets-Phillies at Citi Field (Sunday). It rained all night but we found seats under the overhang and managed to stay pretty dry. It was on ESPN, so there must have been some pressure to get through the game without delays.

    They have some of the best ballpark food I’ve ever had (the nachos are awesome) and I rank it highly on my list of parks (I still have plenty to see). It’s very open, very colorful, and has lots of character. Too bad the Mets play there.

    And as much as I hate Met fans, the Phillies fans in attendance were worse. They talk all kinds of shit and celebrate each single like it’s the second coming of Jesus. Frenchy hit a ball to the warning track in the Mets’ only real scoring opportunity (pinch hitting and not starting of course), but the Mets didn’t put up much of a fight otherwise.

    3) We saw Yankees-Tigers the next day at Yankee Stadium, AKA: The House That Greed Built (thank you, ububba) and sat in the right field bleachers. It was very humid and there was no AC on the 4 train to the game so getting there was a pretty miserable experience; easily one of my least favorite NY moments in four years of living here.

    Once we got there however, my college buddy and I had a pretty good time. The bleacher crowd was VERY drunk and rowdy. Imagine if you will 46,000 Andrew Dice Clay clones drunk and/or stoned and losing. Lots of f-bombs, lots of this-guy-sucks-this-guy’s-flim flam trash talking. One drunk guy fell on a girl in front of him, another was trying to get in a fist fight with a Detroit fan, and another got kicked out for stripping down to a yellow spedo during some 24-Hour Fitness “flex your muscles” promotion between innings. Awesome.

    Damon got a really nice ovation when he went up to bat and got at least one hit. The Yanks did absolutely nothing until the ninth inning where Jeter hit into a bases-loaded double play to end the game (down by 2 runs). Valverde looked pretty awful for Detroit and was lucky to get out in one piece. Also, Jeter has TERRIBLE range for a shortstop. I was surprised to see just how poor he is defensively.

    My dad and his buddy hated the experience due in part to the obnoxious fans and the $11 Heinekens. Ouch. Still, the level of enthusiasm and the atmosphere can’t be duplicated.

    That was the night the Braves came back to beat the Dodgers in the ninth, so I was pleasantly surprised to see 4-3 F on the scoreboard after we had been down all game.

    4) Then we drove to Boston for a Boston-Angels game. It was my first time at Fenway and my Boston friends were right: it’s a religious experience. It’s a BEAUTIFUL park in an awesome part of town (the street scene outside the park is a great part of the experience) and you immediately feel like you’re a part of something special.

    We sat in right field and we had an amazing view of Torii Hunter leaping over the wall to steal a home run and I saw my first grand slam in person.

    The food is very good (clam chowder of course) and reasonably priced comparatively.

    I used to think Boston fans were the most obnoxious fans in baseball, but I think that title belongs to Yankee fans. The Boston fans we encountered were really nice, knew their team, and knew the game very well. The seats are very small, so having good natured people around you helps. There’s not a lot of diversity there, but that’s more of an observation than a criticism.

    It’s our goal to eventually see every park in the country, so we’re already trying to coordinate our next trip. I think we’ll do Pirates, Phillies, and Baltimore next August. It takes a lot of planning and a lot of driving (not to mention a good chunk of change), but man is it worth it.

  40. So if we’re giving up prospects, why couldn’t we have done it before the deadline? Why is everybody all of a sudden willing to let them go, but they weren’t at the deadline?

    Oh well. If we’re picking up a player and having to take on salary, I’d rather it be Manny than Lee. Especially if the prospects are any good. I for one don’t care about “clubhouse presence” (as I’m sure most people know), and I don’t think Manny is really THAT bad. He has fun playing a game, and it grates on some peoples/players/managers/fans’/etc. nerves and he gets labeled with the “cancer” tag as a result. I’ve never gotten the impression that Manny was a well of negative energy and impossible to get along with like, say, Milton Bradley.

    Is his defense bad? Yeah, but he’s playing LF and how many LFs (or even OFs in general) out there can hit like Manny AND play first class defense?

    Oh well. Better to get a worse player so Bobby doesn’t have to actually do anything but fill out a lineup card and mismanage a bullpen during his final season.

    Positive: I’m glad Melky is doing well. I want to like him.

  41. 59—Thanks for the report! I was under the impression that you could get Five Guys inside Nationals Park — no?

  42. Nice write-up, Rob. I highly recommend visiting PNC. Beautiful park with great food. Did a trip a few years ago where I drove from Nashville to St. Louis to Chicago to Cleveland to Pittsburg to Cincinnati back to Nashville. I thought PNC was the best park of the trip.

  43. @65, I didn’t see one. Plus we got there way before the gates opened. We inadvertently drove past some monuments on the way, so that was sorta cool.

    @66, I hear that from a lot of people. I look forward to seeing it.

  44. Derek Lee? He has a bulging disc in his lower back. The braves need him just for the playoff or not? I have no idea, in my humble porfessional opinion.

  45. If we’re gonna go the other way, Manny has just as much of an injury question as Lee. Why are we so worried about Lee’s injury but not at all worried about Manny’s?

  46. 1) I could be way off, but a bulging disc seems a lot more worrisome than a calf injury.

    2) Manny had great 2010 numbers prior to hitting the DL. Lee only recently started doing anything, and his season numbers aren’t good.

  47. Since the All-Star break Derek Lee has slugged .583. That is 12 points lower than Troy Glaus’ OPS during that time. If you can get him for marginal prospects (and Schafer is marginal at this point) you do it.

  48. I believe there are now two Five Guys locations in Nationals Park. (There’s also a Ben’s Chili Bowl.) It’s true, the area around it is really empty — they were hoping to develop it, then the housing market and the rest of the economy tanked, and so it’s true: there’s nothing there. Closest bars worth a damn would probably be in Capitol Hill, which is like a 15-minute walk.

    I like the park, but I admit that it isn’t particularly memorable — it’s no Fenway, or even Camden Yards. Maybe after Bryce Harper and Stephen Strasburg bring home the 2017 World Series trophy, the field will gain a bit more character and attract better-informed fans.

  49. I just had a Cubs fan friend IM me that the announcers said on air that Lee will be holding a press conference after the game.

  50. Ken Rosenthal just said on MLB Network that the deal is now official. “Three young pitching prospects” going the other way. No word yet on who that is.

  51. Spiral Stairs & BFedRec, are you guys former Amazon employees? I’m a Seattle CS-Giant veteran, circa 1999-2001.

  52. I don’t know stu, you are a Dr. or not, – frankly, I have little experience because I’m a rookie:( – I think the bulging disc is a mortal blow. Even Lee is getting old.

  53. Rosenthal on MLB Network didn’t mention anything about Schaefer, just “three young pitching prospects”. Certainly not any of the big three prospects, right?

  54. Three prospects for Derrek Lee? Unless they’re just absolute garbage organizational filler types, three prospects seems like a lot to be giving up for 6 weeks of anyone. Even Manny. Especially with the possibility of taking on salary.

  55. yep Sansho… that was our era in ATL1 too. I started out as Inventory Control/QA ended up as the on-site Unix admin, Spiral was one of our local CS guys. Those were the days… 90 hour work weeks during the holidays, makes me tired just thinking about it.

  56. It’s Ken Rosenthal. This deal is all but official, so he says it’s official and makes up terms so he can be the first to “break” the news that it’s official.

  57. How about that — the workload was the same no matter where we were stationed! I’ll always remember the first words spoken to me by an Amazon trainer. “I’ve drunk the Kool-Aid.” Shoulda known then how it would go….

  58. @91 yeah, luckily at the time I was

    A) payed hourly (overtime pay ROCKED… even if I don’t remember getting to spend it)

    B) young, and only had one kid (who is a teenager now)

    C) lucky enough to use the old noggin and find a niche and leave that job as an IT Professional instead of a warehouse worker.

    Worked my butt off at that job, but had fun too (I drank a fair bit of that kool-aid too). If they hadn’t shut us down I’d probably still be working there (they offered to transfer me, but my wife killed that plan).

  59. Except we need help at 1B more than in LF.

    They always said of Bonds, “He’s a jerk, but he’s a jerk that can hit.”

    Nah, can’t talk myself into it.

  60. Well.. I hope Lee lights it up for 6 weeks. Would’ve thought we could have gotten more for Lopez.

  61. @97, Yeah, I would be fine by that, too. However, Furcal Rule is never more present than when discussing terms of a deal.

  62. Rosenthal just said we do get some cash, didn’t know how much. Implied that the better the prospects we sent them, the more cash the Cubs would contribute to pay off the rest of Lee’s contract.

  63. 105 — I like that idea of experimenting with that if Glaus can get his legs better. Even if it doesn’t work for him, it’s just at Gwinnett. If they were moving him to 3rd now for the big club, it would suck.

  64. Not much time for experimentation: if Glaus goes on the DL today, he comes off on September 2, and Gwinnett’s season ends September 6. Is five games really going to be enough to make him even a semi-functional 3B?

  65. OK. Just watched part of DLee’s press conference, and he talked about his respect for the organization. I’m on board.

    I’m easy. :D

  66. The one positive I take out of this is that Robinson Lopez won’t come back to haunt us. The Cubs might be the worst team in baseball at developing prospects.

    As far as I can tell, the only four homegrown players who made a positive contribution this year are Carlos Marmol, Starlin Castro, Geovany Soto, and Tyler Colvin: a reliever, two starters, and a bench player. And only Castro was viewed as a top prospect. The attrition rate of their other top prospects over the last few years, from Angel Guzman to Felix Pie to Jeff Samardzija, is stunning.

  67. I’m sure there will be some pros(us)pect lovers that will moan to hills about this situation. Cue them in 10, 9, 8, 7…

  68. Exactly, Stu. I’ve never heard Lopez, Harris, or Lorick call a press conference to talk about their respect for the Braves organization. Away with them!

  69. Sounds like a great pick-up so far! I hardly recognize this team anymore, but I don’t really mind :)

  70. Great day to be a Braves fan so far. Like thhe trade very much. If Lee helps us win a WS, then who is Lopez? I assume Lee is healthy of course, but I’m sure he is, the Braves are not dumb.

  71. @109–he doesn’t have to wait 15 days to start rehab assignment

    Not thrilled with the deal but I guess it’s just the price of trying to make the playoffs. Given Lee’s back I might have thought part of the deal would be a ptbnl that would be contingent on Lee’s health.

  72. 109 — Well, I’m sure he knows how to play the position. He just needs to get some reps there and reaquainted. My concern would be the mobility, of course.

    If it turns out he can’t do it, then there isn’t anything lost, he would just come back and sit on the bench.

  73. Brian J.,

    I didn’t see a link to the “Glaus to DL, then rehab Richmond.

    But, ASSUMING THAT IS CORRECT the 15 day stint only means he can’t play in ATL for 15 days. He can start minor league rehab whenever it seems appropriate. Obviously MLB is looking closer now, but if Glaus sits for a week (he needs at least that much rest after a “rooster shot” or cortisone shot or something) and then plays 6 to 8 games he could come back up on 9/2.

    BUT WREN, MAKE SURE WE ONLY HAVE 11 (or maybe even 10, heaven forbid) PITCHERS ON ML ROSTER ON MIDNIGHT 8/31.

  74. If Lee keeps hitting like he has been, this deal is great, if he goes cold, it was a worthy gamble.

  75. Lee was what I wanted to spend the “Vazquez money” on, anyway. Even if the back is a little balky, it should be fine.

    I wish the minor leaguers cold have been contingent on the back.

  76. Glaus is going to rest a week then start the rehab.

  77. DOB (or I think it’s Carroll Rogers today) says that Glaus will sit for a week, then start rehabbing in Gwinnett. He should come off the DL as soon as he’s eligible, I would think.

    EDIT: Blast! You win this round, braves14.

  78. Of the guys we gave up, Harris is the only one that bothers me a bit, with his 37 Ks in 26.2 IP in MB and promotion to Mississippi. But he wasn’t young for the league, Lorick has a seriously deceptive ERA, and Lopez is probably five years away.

    I’ll go with the majority opinion and say that this is a worthwhile risk. And thanks for the corrections re the DL.

  79. Robinson Lopez is the real prospect in the deal, but he’s very far away and not nearly as high-profile as a lot of guys. I doubt we’ll be paying Derek Lee very much money in this deal.

  80. There’s really little to hate about this trade. I had heard of Lopez. I think he hits mid-90s with his fastball. I haven’t seen him at all, so I can’t know if he’s worth anything, but his numbers aren’t eye-popping like some of the other pitching prospects in the organization. I’m not terribly concerned.

    This is a really good move. We’ve been looking at other teams’ trades this year and saying stuff like, “They got Ludwick/Oswalt/whatever for almost nothing.” Well, we just got Derrek Lee for almost nothing. Go Braves.

  81. LOL, 37K in 26 IP in Myrtle Beach, and you’re bothered at all? I swear I think Braves fans are just sweet tea dumb.

    95% of the minor league guys are suspects NOT prospects. Think about how many teams that each MLB team has and how many players get promoted each year from the 5-6 MiLB teams organizations have. Not many. For every Jason Heyward, there are 20 Jordan Schaefers and Cody Johnsons.

    I can’t remember who said it but they said, ‘There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.’

  82. I guess this Lee thing would be more fun if he were actually hitting this year.

    But at least this is what a ‘Win Now’ trade is supposed to look like. It took a few tries but it appears Frank finally made one.

  83. I’m more than fine with this trade. At first I thought Shaefer was gone and then I was concerned about losing a good prospect like Beachy. Honestly, I haven’t heard of any of these guys and Lopez’s 4.2 BB/9 in A ball jump out at me (in a bad way).

    Right now Lee is a type B free agent. Any chance A) Braves offer arbitration and B) Lee declines and we get the pick?

  84. @ 77
    Sansho, I was in Seattle CS from 98 to 99 and then moved to back to the south when they opened up the dc down here and became a Catfish (the ATL equivalent of Seattle’s gophers). Freaking hated working there, but hey, those stock options were nice (though not as nice as I thought they were going to be!)

  85. With the bashing he has been getting on here, I want to put in a good word for Troy Glaus.

    He has probably been going to the post knowing he needed the time off to rest his knees. He didn’t fuss when Cox started platooning him with Hinske to give him some rest. He doesn’t look like he is fussing about this, but trying to use it to help him and the team.

    And, in his rehab, he is going to go back to a position that will challenge his mobility and play in AAA long enough to make him a potential contributor to his club at third.

    If Glaus is kind of bad but not horrible at 3rd, a Conrad / Glaus platoon with Prado at 2B looks mighty good. Let’s Omar cover for people again.

  86. All of you Wrenites–this is your moment: the price was indeed steep and the Cubs were smart enough not to go for Schafer….

    Lopez has struggled of late, but has a fabulous arm; Sickels for one was high on Harris and Lorick has pitched well….

    It will be worth it if it gives us our first NL title since 2005….

  87. I think I like the deal. How much depends upon how much the Braves got back in cash. With Lopez (who was unlikely to ever contribute to the Braves) I hope it’s a lot. The Cubs will ruin him, of course.

  88. I like the trade. I’m sure Lopez has a chance to be good, but he is not Delgado or Tehran. I’m on board with this deal.

    We were not going to pawn off the poo poo platter on someone for a player, but we did not give up one of the big 3 SP prospects (Minor, Tehran, Delgado). I think both sides have a chance to win in this deal.

    We also don’t have to face him vs. the Cubs this weekend. Lee is on our team now. We get 3 games with a gutted Cubs team. Smart move to do this now.

  89. @137

    Yeah, if you got there in ’98 you got to see the stock split at least twice, right? It hit its high water mark about a month after I was hired, so I never got anything out of it. Nice severance package, though, and I enjoyed the notoriety of being an Amazonian relatively early in the game.

  90. @139 Stephen, considering our pitching depth, they are really nothing. Reliever prospects are so easy to replace.

  91. Yeah… sansho1 and Spiral we “only ATL1” people didn’t get much out of the stock options, though when they shut us down they did a nice deal for us that ended up giving me a few hundred bucks 5 years down the road… made for a nicer xmas that year.

  92. If Lee = J.D. Drew and Lopez = Wainwright, than I might kill Wren.

    But Lopez doesn’t appear to be Wainwright.

  93. Lopez is a 19 year old pitching at Rome–at the outset of the season he was not a lot different from Delgado a year ago….

    Three years ago there were lots of people who jumped on the Teixera trade bandwagon seemingly because they had never heard of Feliz (and to a lesser extent Andrus) and therefore thought he was inconsquential….

    Now, Lopez was great at the start of the season and has appeared to wear down and the Cubs will probably ruin him. Still, Lopez had one of the highest upsides of any arms in the system.

    My point here is that the cost was higher than some may realize….

  94. Yeah, I agree, Stephen. I’d have thought it wouldn’t have taken as much as Lopez+ to get this done. Wonder where the money the Braves are “saving” on Lee is going.

  95. 145 OPS+ LAST YEAR. Not once upon a time. Not an All-Star back in the party of 1999. Not even two years ago. 145 OPS+ LAST YEAR.

    And we got him for a couple of minor league fillers and one guy who might have a fraction of a chance of landing in the back of a rotation six years from now.

    Excellent work, Manno and Wren and whoever else was behind this.

  96. Jerome Jurenovich asked Tim Hudson in the pre-game interview if this was the best he’d pitched “in the last year or two.”

    Hudson: “Uh, well, considering I didn’t pitch for about a year there, yeah.”

  97. @151 I don’t think I would put equal stock on Lopez. I absolutely hated it when I knew Feliz was in the deal. Of course, I would rather the Braves to trade Redmond, Diamond, Hoover, or Thompson before we even consider parting Lopez, but it still takes two sides to agree to get the deal done. Gotta give up something decent to get what you want at the end of the day. Lopez is not even one of our top five pitching prospects.

  98. Lopez is not even one of our top five pitching prospects.

    We disagree on his value. With Minor in Atlanta, now, Lopez was arguably the third-best pitching prospect in the organization, behind only Teheran and Delgado.

    But, he’s spilled milk at this point, so I won’t belabor that point any further.

  99. Re Nationals Park:

    Five Guys is inside on the third base side of the stadium. But it’s on the first level so if you went up you probably didn’t see it. Ben’s Chilli Bowl is a classic and while I’m not much for that kind of food, the half smokes and chilli dogs are really good. But I agree about the stadium; it’s nothing special and there is nothing around and not likely to be anything around for a long time if ever. As usual, they oversold the economic benefits of building a stadium. It’s in the middle of a slum that no one would go to (although it’s far from the worst part of town); the assumption apparently was if you build a damn stadium, all of a sudden people would want to go there to eat. One of the things they sold was views of the Capitol but you only get that from a few seats very high up. I guess you don’t get much for $600 million these days. But, in terms of convenience it’s great; the subway stop is literally down the street. This is pretty much a Redskins town; the real baseball fans are those with allegiances to other teams although Strasburg is starting to change that a little.

    Camden Yards is much nicer than Nationals Park and in a much better part of town.

    CBP in Philly seems like a minor league park; it just seems small.

  100. It is high for a rental, but it is not a gutting of the farm system that the Tex deal was.

    Tehran, Delgado, and Minor are still in the system, and we got D. Lee, it is a good thing.

  101. Don’t sleep on the defensive upgrade that Lee gives the ballclub.

    That has to save a couple of runs a week.

  102. Everyone complains about whatever deal is done; apparently anything short of trading Jo Jo Reyes for Albert Pujols would be criticized. I would not give up our top prospects but, at some point, you have to go out and try to win. Now, maybe Manny would have been better, but I have to believe Lee will be better than Glaus.

  103. @158 I guess we will indeed need to agree to disagree. I am honestly not excited by his 4.37 ERA and 43/70 BB/K rate in 93 innings. I agree that he is a prospect, and I know he is 19 years old only, but he is no where near what Wainwright and Feliz were to the Braves when we traded them.

  104. Btw, Stu, I guess I can say we have “known” each other for couple years now, I never knew you are such a big prospect guy. I know Stephen is, and we tend to agree on things more than not. Of course, I guess not for this one, ha.

  105. The sad thing is, he’s been working on that for a few days. Guys, if you can’t grow facial hair at a decent rate, don’t try it.

  106. 166—Well, Stephen knows a lot more than I do (you probably do, too), but I pay attention.

    168—Mrs. Stu disagrees with you. It takes me more than a few days to grow anything approaching what Huddy’s got going, but my wife claims it’s well worth the wait. Anything to hide this mug, I suppose.

  107. Those prospects had as good of a shot of playing for the Braves as I do. By being traded, they have helped the Braves more now than they ever would have.

  108. @159, I look forward to seeing Camden Yards next year hopefully. Oakland is the worst stadium I’ve seen thus far but I think the Nationals is second.

    @169, Sad story, man. :)

  109. I agree with Bethany.

    However, whatever makes Hudson, a fellow Auburn alum, happy, I support.

    Just keep dealing.

  110. The only thing that would make this trade suck is if Glaus got most of the 3rd base starts thus taking Infante’s bat out of the lineup.

  111. are you telling me that we can’t somehow harness the freakish longitivy and stamina that is livan hernandez and solve the nation’s energy crisis?

  112. 145 OPS+ LAST YEAR. Not once upon a time. Not an All-Star back in the party of 1999. Not even two years ago. 145 OPS+ LAST YEAR.

    You know we don’t get anything out of that right? The same way we don’t get anything from all the homers New Guy hit in Toronto?

  113. LOL Wren was halfway through a farewell speech to Glaus before he remembered he’s not gone.

  114. so, with the 1.7 mil we got from the cubs and the .95 mil that we’ll probably save in glaus, derek lee basically cost us, derek lee will cost us 750k for the remainder of the year. not bad.

  115. 181- I can understand the idea, though. Torgo, how can we miss you if you won’t go away?

  116. Well, Dibble just told me its harder to hit in the minors than it is in the majors. I miss Chip.

  117. Yeah a “slight” bulging disc. Can’t imagine why that would be a problem.

    Melky is the man.

  118. Been catching up. Good trade. In the Braves tradition except without the ability to take on big salary.

    I like the plan. See if Troy can play 3rd, get healthy and contribute.

  119. Like the trade. Lee, even with the back, is an upgrade – defense alone. If the money is right coming back to us…we are spending less than $4M for Glaus’ May and hopefully a solid 6 weeks (and more) of Lee…in other words…our first baseman for the season.

    I hope they keep Infante at 2nd and Prado at 3rd, but this allows even more flexibility with the lineup and positional play.

  120. #183 – good question. IMHO, yes. With very limited resources Frank Wren is busting his ass to win it all this year.

  121. I’m cautiously optimistic about the deal, though that’s mainly because Lopez has yet to develop his secondary pitches and control enough to secure a trajectory as a starter. He’s not Feliz, and it’s highly unlikely he will become Feliz.

    If Lee hits well, then it’ll be worth it. If he hits like he has throughout his career at Turner Field, then it probably won’t be. But from this standpoint, standing where we are with this roster/record, it’s a good gamble.

    Also… does anyone know if Lee will qualify as a type-A or B free agent?

  122. bulging discs can align themselves and often do. there not near as big of a deal as once perceived. unless it slips and ruptures, lee should be fine.

    did i mention that i love chipper jones?

  123. Yeah, everyone loves Desmond. I can’t decide what I love more about him the shitty defense or the fact that he never walks a will struggle to keep is OBP over .300.

  124. Hudson leaving the ball up.

    The walk to Desmond in front of Zimmerman and Dunn was unforgivable.

  125. Good job, birdman. Win it now, playa!

    Chipper is soooo on pain meds right now it’s not even funny. Hurf durrf.

  126. So.. Now Lee is the New Guy? Ankiel is the Old New Guy, AGon is the Old Old New Guy.. right?

  127. Chip says this team reminds him of the ’91 club. No, Chip. That team won because of their good defense. This team wins dispite their terrible defense.

  128. Wait, wait, WAIT a second. We just traded for Derrek Lee and we didn’t give up Heyward, McCann, Medlen, Minor, Tejeda, Delgado, Schafer, OR Freeman? Well, I like pretzel day.

    With Cabrera hitting, Prado back, A-Gon better than Rafael Belliard, McCann still the PimpBot or whatever you kids call him, and Heyward hitting ok, then I can stop crying about Chipper. It’s been over a week. My tear glands can’t take much more.

    I have to think Glaus is done. I can’t imagine he’s going to be able to play third well enough for the Braves to bring him back. Unfortunately, I feel like he’s going to rot in AAA. Poor guy.

  129. Wouldn’t it make more sense to have them as New Guy I, II, and III? Or maybe 6, 8, and 3 based on their positions?

  130. William Shakespeare wrote this about Martin Prado:

    Lord of my love, to whom in vassalage
    Thy merit hath my duty strongly knit,
    To thee I send this written embassage,
    To witness duty, not to show my wit:
    Duty so great, which wit so poor as mine
    May make seem bare, in wanting words to show it,
    But that I hope some good conceit of thine
    In thy soul’s thought, all naked, will bestow it;
    Till whatsoever star that guides my moving
    Points on me graciously with fair aspect
    And puts apparel on my tatter’d loving,
    To show me worthy of thy sweet respect:
    Then may I dare to boast how I do love thee;
    Till then not show my head where thou mayst prove me.

  131. Bob Carpenter: “Back to back walks, why is he swinging?”
    Rob Dibble: “Thank you, Melky.”

  132. Two walks on eight pitches, and Melky swings at the first pitch. Just f***ing brilliant.

    Edit: On the other hand, nice bloop, AAG. It’ll look like a line drive in the box score.

  133. Melky should not have been swinging, though he did actually hit it kind of hard.

    And as AAG demonstrated, if Melky hit his usual bloop instead he would have reached.

  134. I know this doesn’t mean much, but the ball goes from AGonz’s glove to his throwing hand faster than the eye can see. Anyone else ever notice that?

  135. @234

    I would say quick hands are very high on the list of important skills of a shortstop. He’s pretty good out there…

  136. #239 – I was just about to say – “I think Heyward just pulled a pitch at least a foot outside.”

  137. When Chipper was in the booth, he was asked about the work Pendleton is doing with Heyward and said he didn’t necessarily see eye-to-eye with it. Was that an audition?

  138. whatever happened to umpires sitting directly behind the plate. I dont like these guys moving from corner to corner

  139. I like Joe too. He’s an old fogey, but he’s been around long enough to make me feel nostalgic and seems like a nice enough guy.

    That said, Mac is right: Chip brings out the worst in him. Find myself really irritated by Joe at times when he’s working with Chip.

  140. Hitting it “a mile” apparently results in a just-shy-of-the-track fly-out.

    Chip Caray is just the worst.

  141. I went to the Shakespeare’s Birthplace, Stratford upon Avon last year. My english lady said nothing there but expensive. HAHAHAHA.
    In conclusion, The Shakespeare are boring. !$%^&&*&@&^%$#$ Just her opinion!!! :) I think I had a good experience. I love UK.

  142. I’m fine with Martin going feet first for a while. But I’m not against head first slides generally.

  143. I absolutely hate Stu. But I think we’re talking about different Stu. UMMM,,, It’s fair. :)

  144. Ouch! I hate the University of Kentucky, brule! In my neck of the woods, that’s what “UK” means.

  145. Id like to see Heyward jumping on the 1st pitch like Bmac does. He’s getting meatballs up there because he’s taking a ton of pitches, esp 1st pitch fastballs

  146. I know he’s an official enemy of the franchise, but I have to admit I like watching him. He’s like the pitching version of Chipper — diminished athletically, but in control of himself and, therefore, of the situation.

    Edit: That last play is an out, starting this weekend.

  147. I don’t think that first pitch he saw was very up. Looked to be in his wheel house, actually.

  148. @302- Agreed. Guess that’s what happens when you’re the Nationals?

    Edit: Okay, after reading his lips on the replay, maybe it wasn’t so ridiculous.

  149. 308- Yeah, that’s bush league by the ump. Like Votto’s ejection last week for talking to himself about a bad strike call.

  150. The way Carpenter and Dibble tell it, in addition to being a great ballplayer, Ryan Zimmerman is also the second coming of Mother Teresa. He does cancer research in between innings.

  151. It’s generally pretty stupid to show up the umpire (and Zimmerman did on that 3-1 pitch), so you get what you deserve when you slam your bat and helmet. If he hadn’t disrespected the umpire, it probably wouldn’t have been a big deal.

  152. Nats should feel better, though. Bobby immediately erases the Braves’ best player with one of his patented late inning moves on the base paths.

  153. He wasn’t try to disrespect or show up the umpire. How long should players stand around making sure a pitch they think is a ball is a ball before going to first? Umpires shouldn’t be so damn sensitive.

  154. Yeah, umpires don’t like it when you go to first base without waiting to hear them call ball four — but he didn’t show any overt displeasure with the call, and he didn’t drop his bat. Generally, the standard for not showing up the umpire involves actually turning around and saying something, and he did neither of those things. According to Don and Jim, the umpire’s a rookie. It shows.

  155. @316, it was that he stood outside the box for no reason after slowly walking back on what was a pretty obvious strike call. Batters aren’t supposed to leave the box at all after taking a pitch, much less stand there like an idiot for ten seconds.

  156. Oh please. Zimmerman didn’t show anyone up. He gathered himself, like an adult, and expressed frustration at his strikeout by throwing his helmet. Big deal. Nobody was harmed and nobody was shown up–even the Braves announcers, who are basically homers, admitted as much.

  157. @322 A pretty obvious strike call that barely grazed the corner? They showed the pitch track, it was hardly obvious, though it was a strike. Hitters leave the box all the time. After he heard the call he returned without fuss. I have no sympathy for the umpire here. They are out of control.

  158. Wagner’s nasty.

    But yeah, generally speaking, acting like an adult includes throwing your bat and helmet down while screaming “that’s bullshit.” I probably wouldn’t have thrown the guy out, but it’s perfectly understandable that he was. He was acting like a baby.

  159. He definitely was showing him up. I’ve played lots of organized baseball, including in college, and I know not to scamper off to first because you think the ball was close.

    Typically on a ball four, the umpire won’t just be silent. He’ll let you know it’s ball four so you’re not standing there. Zimmerman was pissed that he didn’t get the call and acted like a two year old about it.

    What happened to players playing with class? It’s like the Rex Ryan situation. Why can’t professionals act like professionals? Do we throw a hissy fit when something doesn’t go our way in the work place? No.

  160. lets focus our anger on our hitters swinging at awful pitches and thank the ump for being an idiot and throwing out their best player

  161. The pitch was at the knees right over the middle of the plate. It wasn’t on the corner at all. Look at the pitch tracker on Gameday. But, again, it wasn’t running to first that showed up the umpire, it was sulking outside the batter’s box for no reason.

  162. If his actions on the called strike were so clearly innocent, why did he act like a total jagoff when he struck out? Answer: because he was already moping around, trying to show up the ump.

  163. He was being tossed right as he first opened his mouth, so unless the umpire can read his thoughts before he expresses them, whatever Zimmerman said wasn’t the cause.

  164. Um, I think his “fucking bullshit” remark is a pretty good indicator of how his other actions were (correctly) construed.

  165. did anyone see where the SS was playing? there arent many guys who can hit a ball that hard. SS wasnt far from the bag and he still couldnt put a glove on it

  166. Brian Jordan thinks our right fielder’s name is Jason “Haywood.” He’s said it more than once.

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