Washington Nationals vs. Atlanta Braves – Box Score – August 17, 2010 – ESPN.
The Return of The Prado looked pretty good, as Martin picked up three hits, two RBI, and three runs scored hitting in the third spot, and the Braves once again got off the mat (resilent!) after being shut down for the first five innings. They in fact were held without a baserunner for the first three innings, before Infante broke it up with a single leading off the fourth; he and Diaz (who was hit by a pitch) were both stranded.
Mike Minor, however, was pitching pretty well himself, throwing five shutout innings. But with two out in the sixth, back-to-back doubles made it 2-0 Nats. Diory Hernandez — yes, Diory — hit a pinch-hit homer leading off the sixth, and the floodgates opened. Omar tripled, and Heyward worked a walk. Prado followed with a double over first to tie the game and put runners second and third. Diaz, against a righty, doubled himself to left field to make it 4-2. The Braves left the bases loaded, but they weren’t done.
After Farnsworth managed to not give up any runs in the seventh, Ankiel reached on an infield single to lead off the bottom of the inning, going to second on an error. Omar walked, and Adam Dunn threw away a groundout by Heyward, allowing Ankiel to score. Prado singled in a run, then Conrad (hitting for Farnsworth) walked. Troy Glaus, of course, failed, and Gonzalez struck out, but Melky hit a little flare for a double over third base, making it 8-2 as the Braves hit around for the second inning in a row. In the eighth, Eric Hinske singled in Heyward and Glaus, now that it had been decided, doubled in Prado for the 10-2 final. Saito pitched the eighth, as he was already warmed up, but the Lisp pitched the ninth with no problems.
going back to last years draft and looking at what Minor has done, who would we have been better off taking at that pick? Its pretty amazing what Minor has done and Im glad he wasnt moved around the deadline. He seems to be able to handle this situation. He’s confident, I like him
JC’ed from the last thread.
I hate this team. We have no offense and inconsistent starting pitching. And Mike Minor is just another overhyped lefty prospect — Terrell Wade, Bruce Chen, Damian Moss, Odalis Perez… our farm system is OVERRATED and Frank Wren is a freaking MORON.
oh yeah, Im sorry, but Id almost rather listen to Chip over Brian Jordan. Both are brutal, but I just cant stand hearing Jordan
@1 I’m with you, I really like what I’ve seen from Minor, and I’m thrilled the team came back and won for him.
Brian Jordan and Ron Gant are both way worse than Chip.
I’m a Mike Minor fan.
The Mets are 10 games out. What a bunch of losers.
Hey, good win. Welcome back Martin!
I missed the game — did anyone address why Kevin Mench is on the Nats active roster? They’re not going anywhere and he hasn’t played in the majors since ’08. Is it just a mitzvah?
anyone just see Minor getting drenched in the clubhouse? Ross/Conrad/and about 4 others just drenched him in beer, fully clothed
Minor, meanwhile, is “just a guy.”
Like Caesar was “just a man”?
—————-
Did anyone notice that Chip had dialed it down a bit and was much more palatable as a result?
Don’t be hatin’. It’s a legit question.
What an odd team. From rigor mortis to en fuego in the blink of an eye.
I’m just gonna enjoy ’em.
Did anyone notice that Chip had dialed it down a bit and was much more palatable as a result?
No, I definitely did not notice that.
Brian Jordan and Ron Gant are both way worse than Chip.
No again. Not even close.
GROUND BALL UP THE MIDDDDDDDDDDDDLEE…and Desmond makes the play.
I just heard the last three innings, so my CHip observations may have been incomplete.
Amateur psychiatrist here: I think Chip tries to be both whimsical and earnestly enthusiastic. (Parent thing, perhaps?)
It can’t be done. At least not well.
His Dad was whimsy personified but when it came time to be serious (“He…is….SAFE!”), you knew it was all business.
Chip needs to be himself – a nice man with good pipes who operates best in a pleasant, narrow range.
Impressive win tonight.
Minor looked great. It is nice to see.
Refried beans and pork rinds are no good on the lower digestive tract.
70 wins. Braves suck. Fire Wren.
Our horrible slide wasn’t quite as bad as it seemed. Between the All-Star Break and the end of July, the Braves were 7-8. Since the beginning of August, we’re 10-5.
Fire Wren. He’s awful.
Yes, Wren is such an idiot.
The only problem with picking Minor was that I would prefer we picked a hitter considering how little hitting talent we have, but what Minor has done is really impressive.
Yes, we are in first place and our GM definitely does not contribute to that.
@17 That’s what I was saying. We played like crap but still managed to play .500, but very few saw that.
Weird stat of the night.
In the last 30 days Brian McCann has scored 7 runs. In the last 30 days Brian McCann has hit 7 home runs.
That’s because Glaus usually hit behind him and was great at ending innings.
Wow.I went to bed middle of the 6th! Nice wakeup!
@ 17 Well, anyone can cherry pick stats to prove whatever point he’s trying to make. Who’s to say I couldn’t use a different set of numbers to prove our record since the All-Star Break is actually much worse than you would have us believe??
Frank Wren is the worst GM in the history of baseball. He should not only be fired but stoned, drawn and quartered, then boiled in oil.
Lots of bitching on this blog last year over the Minor pick. I guess the Braves know a little about evalutating talent. Good for the kid.
With Medlen down now for a year the old adage about never having too much pitching rings true.
@23,
Mac does such a good job and this blog has really grown. There is a lot of negativity here, but there is a ton of people who follow it.
When Andruw Jones was here, everything was his fault.
Always easier to criticize than to offer something positive.
Last night was nice, but the Nats bullpen is just awful. The first two months or so of the season their bullpen was a strength. Now with Capps gone and Clippard showing up every third or fourth appearance, the only hope they have is Storen. Ugly.
The Dodgers are boring to me!
Starting pitchers are on a cruise through the August. Especially Hanson. His pitching came as a complete surprise though.
I thought Olsen was going to do us in again. But, resilency, thy name is Atlanta…
Good to see The Prado back in mid-season form.
I think if Wagner hadn’t blown those two games that entire period would have been a lot less gloomy. Couple that with the Phillies going on a tear at the same time, and it amounted to a lot of panic (certainly from me). I’m still nervous about the division, because it seems everyone is deciding to suck against the Phillies, and now they are getting their players back from the DL.
mlb.tv lies, and I like it.
I had to cut out right after the Braves tied the game in the bottom of the sixth. I was careful to avoid all sports scores, then I popped open the mlb.tv later in the evening to catch what I missed.
mlb.tv claims to not make the game available in-market until 90 minutes after the game. After I finished watching, I checked the times, and I had started it up with no issue 26 minutes after the game.
Lie to me, mlb.tv. Lie to me.
Informal poll:
As of today, Wainwright or Huddy for Cy Young? (I don’t like Halladay and think he’s probably a close 2d/3d to Wainwright/Huddy, but screw him and the Phillies.)
My vote is that the scales tip to Wainwright based just on the numbers.
“There is a lot of negativity here” – Smitty
yep, but its usually from just a select few who have nothing to say or add to the blog except for their little rants.
Wainwright will probably get it as of now, but I’d love to see Hudson win it. I never thought he’d be dominant here, and he normally seems to fade over the season, but not this year.
Its Wainright right now….he leads the league in ERA, WHIP, Wins. Still they have what, about 5-6 starts left?
Wainright, Huddy has been great, but voters love stats like wins and strikeouts.
Well, he’s tied with Jimenez in wins. He and Huddy have had 25 and 24 starts respectively, so I’d expect 7-8 more starts to get to 32 or 33 on the season.
I would find it difficult to vote against Halladay. He’s pitched like 17 more innings than Wainright, strikes out batters at higher clip, walks batters at a way lower rate. Mostly, it’s the innings, though. That’s 2-3 more starts worth of pitching over the same number of actual starts (25).
Well, is the Cy Young for the pitcher having the best year or for the best pitcher? Not much doubt that Halladay, like it or not, is the best pitcher, Huddy notwithstanding. And Wainwright is, at worst, second. Wins may not mean anything, but strikeouts and complete games do. Let’s face it, if you could trade Hudson for Halladay straight up, wouldn’t you do it?
The thing about the negativity is that it’s the nature of the internet. Analyzing each game sort of misses the point about baseball. It’s a grind and a game of streaks, every team, no matter how good or bad, will have their lulls and, at times, will look really bad. The Yankees just had two games were they scored a total of one run. The Phillies struggled for two months and are still in contention.
I think for Huddy to win the Cy he’d have to almost run the table to catch up with the other two for wins. I think Wainwright has the edge now with his wins and ERA lead. Halladay just behind with his IP, CG, and K totals. As much as I love Huddy and what he’s doing, he’s in 3rd for now in that race. A few more Ws and keep lowering the ERA will get him closer, but he’ll need Halladay and/or Wainwright to have a 6 run outing or two (without him having one) to overtake those two.
Edit: Wainright has only had 4 non Quality Starts this season, Halladay has had 6, Huddy has had 4… for what those are worth.
Okay that poll was not controversial enough (at least for those who abided by my disqualification of Halladay). How about:
As of today, NL MVP. Your options are:
Wainwright
Huddy
Halladay (I protest, though)
Pujols
Votto
Please assume all three teams (Braves, Cards, Reds) (EDIT: Whoops, four teams, plus Phillies — I know it’s not actually possible) will make the playoffs, if this is a factor in your decisionmaking.
MVP is a more subjective opinion, at least in mine, since it considers all players, all aspects of their game, and (to some degree at least) the overall success of their teams.
I think that comes down to Huddy or Votto mainly because Pujols & Wainwright cancel each other out (that team also has Carpenter & Holiday working against either P or W being the MVP), and Halladay is on a team with a lot of other ‘stars’ (though admittedly only Howard seems to be playing like much of one)… Huddy I think gets cancelled out some due to The Prado (and it’s tough to be a pitcher MVP)… Votto’s only competition on his team would be Rolen and Votto’s just so far ahead…
I think I’d have to give MVP to Votto as I don’t think the Reds would be talked about for post season without him. Huddy & Halladay would be 2nd & 3rd (not sure which is which)
Just heard on Atlanta radio that Derrek Lee is a possibility to the Braves and he will approve a trade. I can’t find anything to substantiate it. Looks like he’s having a pretty mediocre year by his standards.
Lee isn’t playing because of a bulging disc. Sounds like an unlikely trade to me.
Frank Wren is silencing his critics.
@6, I couldn’t believe Kevin Mench was playing for the Nats. I went to the game last night and did a triple take. His BA dropped 50 points after one at bat. I guess he hasn’t been up long. Talk about a blast from the past.
I was just peeking ahead at the rest of the schedule. Didn’t realize that the only remaining games vs. teams >.500 are 4 at home vs Stl and 6 vs the Phils. On the other side, we have 14 vs. the Nats, Pirates & cubs.
A quick look at Philly, they have 8 ‘tough’ games left against the NL west plus the 6 vs us.
It sure would be nice to make sure that last homestand was meaningless.
If Lee is healthy I’d take a flier on him if he can be had cheap. I think the pennate race would wake him up.
Lot’s of if’s there.
I’d like Hudson to win the Cy Young, but as of now, it is Wainwright, Doc, and Huddy in that order. Mid west sports writters and national guys will knock Huddy out.
MVP depends on who wins the central. Votto for the Reds, Puljos for the Reds. Prado should get a look. If we finish strong and McCann has a good run down the stretch he will get some votes too.
ROY will be the most interesting. J-Hey needs to get it going.
looks like we already have our derek lee, his name is troy glaus
lee
2010 – .251/.335/.416./751
vs LHP – .237.316/.407/.723
glaus
2010 – .239/.343/.406/.749
vs LHP – .229/.367/.398/.766
both are hurting. I dont see how Lee would help us right now, but I guess if he could get healthy Id like to try making a run with him.
44-Actually we have 3 against COL who are above .500.
So, if the Braves get Lee, do they cut Glaus? I would think so.
I wish Glaus was healthy… When he is right he gives a completely different look to our offense.
I don’t think we cut Glaus if the Lee deal goes through. We improve the power on the Bench and we can keep Troy’s incentives in check by not playing him everyday.
Lee since the break:
.313 .356 .583 .939
but a bulging disk …….
47 – fair enough, plust they are @col. Hopefully that trip won’t screw up our doubles & singles hitters into thinking about going yard.
49 – agree. I wonder how many days off it would take to get him back to servicable?
Kruger-
You correct though that we have very few “tough” games left. The 4 with STL are the most worrysome as they swept us in a 4 game set earlier this year, but we get them at home this time.
After the next 2 with SF, Philly gets Was and Hou at home before heading out west. Wouldn’t be surprised if the lead shrinks before that trip, though on the bright side, SF may be falling out of it. They play Stl and Cin after Phi.
well, MLBTR says we’re close to getting him
This is one of those trade rumors that gets me very excited until I start worrying that I’m still living in 2008 and that player might not be as good as he once was.
It doesn’t look like he’s owed much and seems to be rebounding… Ok, maybe I’m excited.
I mean, Lee probably makes us a little better…but not nearly as much better as Manny would make us, and probably not even as much better as Smelms would make us.
Troy to 3B with new legs
Infante to CF with more range
Lee to 1B with a better back
Prado to 2B with a new pinky
problems solved
Lots of grumbling about Lee’s attitude this year and how it might have affected his play. I don’t know how much to make of that, other than the Cubs seem to need to be broken up. The team leaders are petulant and overpaid, and the manager has packed it in.
“I mean, Lee probably makes us a little better”
Reading this first scared me because originally I thought it referred to Carlos Lee.
I don’t know where I read bulging disk, I take it back. Bad Back.
According to TC owed 3.6 mil for the remainder of the season.
#56 – not trying to pick an argument but please explain how Helms would make us better than if we acquired Lee.
Up to this point, Lee has generally been known as a good citizen (as was his father, Leon, in Japan). I would blame any “attitude” problems on the toxic clubhouse in Chicago.
Obviously, the bigger problem is injury, because he’s clearly not healthy. But the last few years he’s been a lot like Chipper Jones for us: 120-140 games a season and declining homer numbers, but very good numbers when he’s on the field. If we get him, I’ll be pumped.
Johnny, he had a bulging disk in his neck that caused him to miss games last year; lately, it’s been the back that’s kept him off the field. Fortunately, we haven’t heard much about him reinjuring the wrist that basically ended his breakout 2006 season. The neck, wrist, and back are all areas of concern that the doctors will need to inspect.
BR player reports indicate that he was held out yesterday’s game because of a bulging disc in his lower back.
I’ll vote in my own poll: Votto.
I am for anything that improves the team. But I, and I may be alone, am a Troy Glaus fan. Without his hot month and a half we probably aren’t in first place. I’ve been pulling for him to turn it around.
its good to know that we apparently have some room in the budget…might as well spend it
60—Because it’s not clear to me that Lee is an upgrade over Glaus. Meanwhile, Smelms could form the right-half of a solid 3B platoon (with Conrad).
64—Full disclosure: I’m right there with you. The irrational side of me just doesn’t want to give up on him.
65—Yeah, I guess, but I’d rather spend it elsewhere. I’d honestly rather have Alvord and Sabol than Lee.
I am sure he would have to pass a physical. If we get him, I say we put Troy on on th DL, let him rest, and have a terrific bench in September.
Diaz’ double against a righty was very encouraging. Matt looks dialed in for the moment (but it comes and goes with him quickly, it seems).
Agree with Bethany – if Glaus is healthy, he is the difference. Would a week off heal what ails him? I still haven’t heard anything definitive about his injuries.
Speaking of difference makers – welcome back, Marteen!
——————
One of us posted a memory of a Notre Dame fan approaching four hundred pounds with a beer in one hand and a brat in the other wearing a shirt that read, “I Beat Anorexia”.
Whoever that was, damn you! I’ve been giggling at innapropriate times ever since.
#64 – I think we may have seen Troy’s only good stretch, I do thank him for it though. OPS month to month this year
.601
.942
.870
.546
.630
Just dont think he’s got anything left this year. He needs to rest those legs and get in better shape.
Living in Chicago since ’06, I’ve always felt the hype outweighed the production for Lee. The guy’s been a good hitter, but only an elite hitter for a few select seasons. He’s also an absolute butcher in the field. He has a career WAR of 29 over since his debut in ’97.
Always felt the MVP was for position players and Cy Young (obviously) for pitchers.
Votto.
@64, I am with you.
I want him to rebound and I think he just needs some rest. We obviously aren’t going to call up Freeman, I would take Lee if he can be had cheap. Play the hot hand come September.
Stu, from what I read we made a pretty good offer to both our 17th and 18th round guys who rejected it and wanted to go to college.
I for one would rather have Prado at 3rd, Omar at 2B, and Conrad ready for PH duties than having a Conrad/Helms platoon and Omar sitting
69 – Agreed. It just seems like Glaus has nothing left in the tank, and if the Braves do get Lee, you’ve got to think that means Glaus will be released. I would feel bad about seeing him go because I really believe he was the catalyst to the offensive (and team) resurgence in May and June. That being said, when you’re in a tight pennant race, you can’t keep carrying dead weight to show gratitude for something that happened in past.
@72 – Or at least play the hand that is not dead, dead cold.
@71 – I tend to agree, but this IS the year of the pitcher.
when was the last time we had a full season with just one everyday first baseman?
Glaus’ last 152 PA: .182/.283/.273
He has as many GIDP (8) as XBH over that span.
He is cooked.
73—I don’t want Omar sitting.
Stu, I respect your opinion, but watching Glaus the last couple weeks, to my eyes, his bat speed is just gone. He’s swinging and missing at 90 mile an hour fastballs in the middle of the strike zone. I wanted Alvord and Sabol too, but that ship has sailed. Right now, I’m perfectly happy with Prado at 3B and Infante at 2B. But Glaus just looks awful at the plate. If you’re seeing something different from him, I understand where you’re coming from. And I haven’t watched Derrek the last few weeks, so I don’t know if his swing is just as gimpy. But I would feel a lot more comfortable with him at the plate than Troy Glaus.
I am even to the point where if we got an up grade at 2nd or 3rd, Omar playing center field wouldn’t bother me that much.
we know they wont play Omar everyday in the OF, unless you want Prado at 1B and Omar at 2b. It could work like that I guess
70 – I haven’t watched Lee play much, but neither UZR or +/- have him as a bad defensive first baseman. And it’s hard to imagine he wouldn’t be a defensive upgrade over Glaus at this point.
So does anyone know if this means the Braves have claimed Lee off of waivers and they are now trying to work out a deal or if Lee still has to be waived and could conceivably be claimed by the Phillies as a blocking move (their worse record gives them a higher waiver priority).
The Lee thing makes sense if the Cubs pitch in most of his salary and want prospects back. If we’re not getting money, I’d rather the team just keep whatever we’d be paying Lee and make a play for Manny.
79- agree 100%.
How anyone can watch Glaus at the plate and not think he’s done is beyond me. I’m shocked when he even elevates the ball.
i’m pumped! derek lee in place of glaus and in the heart of our lineup! do it wren!
i hope we send glaus to the dl. i’d like his bat in the playoffs.
I’m overvaluing my prospects. I don’t want a trade.
84 – this is a salary dump from the Cubs, they won’t be sending cash, and we won’t be sending prospects.
79—Well, he also homered off a Lindstrom fastball. My main issue isn’t that Glaus will be good, though. It’s that Lee, with his bad numbers and bad back, won’t be, either. Like JoeyT says, there are other, better places that money could be spent.
81—Really? How do you know that?
I remember the homer — but I also remember the feeling of utter bewilderment that surrounded it. His swing is too long and slow to be able to make reliable contact. Every so often, he’ll luck into getting ahold of one. But I have seen nothing over the last several weeks to suggest that is repeatable.
I understand that you’re worried D.Lee won’t be better, and I understand the Manny allure. (I probably wouldn’t be opposed to getting Manny, either.) But my worry is that Glaus’s skills are literally degrading before our eyes thanks to his completely shot knees, and that he will therefore keep hitting .182/.283/.273. Not only am I confident that D.Lee can top that, I’m also confident that if Glaus keeps hitting like that in the middle of our order, we stand a very good chance of losing ground to the Phillies.
A minute ago, Crasnick tweeted: “Braves and Cubs are “way along in the process” on a Derrek Lee trade, says a baseball source. Deal could go down today or tomorrow.”
This means two things: a) don’t hold your breath, and b) the longer the negotiations go on, the less likely the deal becomes.
The Cubs are at the point in their season where they may just part with Lee if someone claimed him.
20 games under .500 and 18.5 out. Damn. I don’t pay that much attention to the standings other than the NL East. I didn’t realize that Chicago was THAT out of it.
90—Well, respectfully, you’re not a scout. Neither am I, of course. I do know that the long-swing complaints are the same ones that were being made in April.
And it’s not just Manny. It’s any improvement anywhere. If Lee is no better than Glaus, it’s not worth blowing our remaining funds there.
This isn’t going to be a horrific trade, or anything. I didn’t think we’d do anything at all. I just don’t think it does much, when other moves could.
Lee has been putting it together since the beginning of July, and Glaus has been falling apart. We’re trying to win a pennant here.
do it ren
Here’s a thought for someone to target for 3B: Mark Reynolds. Not only a good short-term fix, but I like his possibilities long-term with the club.
95—Yes, please!
@93
the defensive upgrade hasnt really been discussed. how many times have we seen glaus miss a pickoff attempt this year? i’d be willing to bet that it’s been at least 12. i’m befuddled by anyone that doesnt think this is a big upgrade, offensively and defensively.
Lee sure looks like an upgrade over Glaus right now. I don’t know what other mystery deals are out there, but this looks like an upgrade at a spot where we’re really weak at the moment.
@90, I don’t think we’ll see Glaus much longer against RHP unless he heats up. If the vs RHP OF is Ankiel-Melky-Heyward, Hinske will probably start seeing more time at first.
Is what Lee is owed the rest of the year worth an under two month upgrade over a Hinske/Glaus platoon?
@95 he’s not on waivers and there’s no way they’d trade him.
97—Befuddled? Really? Have you compared their numbers this year? Are you aware that bulging discs can have a pretty negative effect (offensively and defensively) on a baseball player?
99—Exactly.
#95 – I agree
I have to give our incompetent GM Frank Wren kudos for leaving no stone unturned.
IMHO:
Cubs: Y’all can have him for an autographed picture of Chipper.
Wren: But we need some money from you all. How about I throw in a prospect.
Cubs: We’ll take Julio Teheran. And we’ll send along 2 million.
Wren: Sure, I’ll take the Sears Tower too.
As long as Freeman and/or Tehran don’t move in this deal, I am okay with it.
Lee is OPSing 1.075 in August. If he is healthy it is a gamble worth taking as long as you don’t spend to much of the minor league pot.
There’s no way Reynolds would clear waivers.
@101, but it may be worth it. Let’s say we have the money. Let’s say that a team like the Rays is willing to pay more of Manny’s salary than that. If it’s a choice between not spending the money and upgrading against LHP, I’ll take the upgrade.
I don’t think Manny’s out of the question, though. I’d be shocked if he doesn’t go somewhere, and $3.whatever million can go a long way to securing him from the Dodgers.
i am aware of the issues that come with the injury and bulging discs arent near as serious as once perceived (coming from a history of bad backs, i’ve had one and dealt with it myself). however lee has dealt with a bad back for years. he’ll be fine for the rest of this season. his .906 career ops against lhp gives me much hope.
106—Yeah, that’s a fair point. Like I said, I don’t hate the deal. I just don’t think it does much. Hope I’m wrong, obviously.
Yeah, there’s no way the DBacks are trading Reynolds; he’s on the 3 yr/$14.5 million extension they signed him to in March.
Stu, I know I’m not a scout, but… I think you’re ignoring the fact that Glaus has maintained a sub-.600 OPS for two months now. Derrek Lee has a .751 OPS this year (and .845 OPS over the last two months). That constitutes a major improvement.
Not ignoring anything. And, I’m not big on small sample-sizes like “since the break” or “over the past month or two”. Their virtually-identical season-long numbers tell me that it’s no major improvement.
Fair enough.
Oh, on a different note, because you’re the first guy who told me he’d be a good major leaguer: I love me some Mikie Minor.
Reynolds:
Home .234 .353 .563 .916
Away .196 .310 .366 .676
I’m not so sure.
But we are treading into fantasy land again he won’t be traded or put on waivers.
Stu, I get where you are coming from but isn’t baseball about what have you done for me lately?
@ 68 – I know, me too. for fun I googled it. The thing is he looks so happy. must have been quite the battle.
http://www.owensworld.com/funnyimages/view-309.htm0
I think the deal does a lot
since the break –
Hinske .207/.343/.414/.757
Glaus .196/.291/.304/.595
Lee .313/.356/.583/.939
August –
Hinkse .115/.281/.231/.512
Glaus .208/.255/.375/.630
Lee .306/.381/.694/1.075
The Cubs will have to come up with SOME cash. Even with that, I know I’ll be disappointed if the team ends up having to pay $2.5 mil net the rest of the year for Lee, then the Rays or whoever gets Manny a week later and only has to pay $2 mil net.
Re: Manny, the money is almost completely irrelevant. Can you see Bobby saying yes to him?
Shanks tweets that it’s a done deal if the Braves sign off on Lee’s health.
@115 Somehow, I doubt the Braves would want Manny considering how much they value defense.
@110 Agree, but at least Lee is heading toward the right direction which Glaus isn’t. If it’s not involving any important prospects, the deal can only help.
I think it’s fair to not get caught up in small sample sizes as such, but I also think it’s pretty clear that Glaus’ hitting has deteriorated along with his knees and feet and for that reason I think his last two months are much more telling than his season numbers.
Just for that I’m all for the deal if the Braves’ scouts believe Lee is somewhat healthy.
Now let’s just hope we’re not giving up much in terms of talent.
Im fine with the deal and fine if we pay all the salary, just as long as no top prospects are being sent over.
side note: At what point will the Braves shut down Minor this year?
If we’re taking on salary, why aren’t we being connected to Manny? Please tell me the FO isn’t REALLY prepared to pass him over because of “clubhouse factors.”
Sigh.
could be the fact that Manny has 4AB’s since June 29th or something like that, also how bad his defense is in left, plus his antics, his age. Id still take him and love to have him, but I can see several reasons why some GM’s/Managers wouldnt want him. Lets just get both
@110
Small sample size? Glaus’s season numbers are inflated because of his amazing performance over a five week period. The rest of the season he has done nothing.
I’m also happy with getting Lee, just no real prospects going back. I’m really good at spending other people’s money.
124—I don’t think you understand the value of sample sizes. Prior to his recent hot streak, Lee’s season-long numbers were pretty bad, too. The point is, all of those stats count. The more you have, the better idea you can get of what you have.
Mark Reynolds’ line is hilarious.
Stu, if we aren’t giving up anything significant, what’s there not to like?
We’re giving up budget (Manny or someone else) room. We may have given up Alvord and/or Sabol. Opportunity cost.
@128 – Really only the hypothetical trade where we get a better piece from somewhere else to fix a need. But of course no one here knows if there’s really that opportunity.
EDIT, Sort of jinx! Anyway, it’s only an opportunity cost if there’s an opportunity. Maybe there is, we just don’t know.
@130, bird-in-the-hand theory is pretty valid here, especially this late in the season.
130—Maybe there is, we just don’t know.
Yup. That’s why I just feel “meh,” and not worse, about it.
can Manny block deals?
Stu, I don’t buy the Alvord story.
Pat Andriola at FanGraphs weighs in. “Solid” is how he describes the deal. “Handful of prospects,” though? I seriously doubt it.
134—OK. I tend to believe it, but as Jeff notes, none of us knows.
I know everyone wants Manny (I do too)… but you have to look at what organization we’re talking about. If it’s between getting Lee for cash and a crap prospect and say, Inge, I’ll take Lee.
I don’t really see Manny in a Braves uni. We probably won’t be signing Barry Bonds out of retirement, either. Don’t hold your breath for that.
I think it’s important to note that Glaus’s offensive slide seems to more or less coincide with his legs turning to stone. In ST and April, he was making good contact at least, even if he wasn’t getting the XBH’s as a result. His approach paid off in May and part of June, as hits starting falling in and/or flying over the fence. But now, can you say he is making good contact? He looks terrible at the plate, and whether or not his knees are the primary factor, don’t you have to at least try to let him heal up (more than 2 days off)? We’ve tried the playing through pain, and it hasn’t gone so well. I guess you could also cut him…
The money aspect to the deal means nothing to me. If you can take on more money, give up a lesser prospect, and Liberty signs off on it, then great. I don’t care about the “value” of Derrek Lee since there are very few opportunities to spend extra payroll in August, anyways.
So perhaps it is a small sample size. Yet, it doesn’t mean nothing, especially when there’s an injury to help explain the recent lack of production. I think there’s a good chance that even a .700 OPS from Lee would be a big improvement from running Glaus out there every day (maybe not a platoon, though). I think Lee can do better than that.
Lee is injured, too.
K, I’m done. Just repetitive and, I’m sure, annoying at this point. I’ll be pulling for him, just like I’ve been pulling for Rick Ankiel. And, hopefully, some time off will make Glaus a weapon again in time for the playoffs.
Let’s keep the Furcal Rule in mind, though. Unless of course, the Furcal Rule only applies to signings? Not sure. Anyway, you get my point.
Thinking about this more, I like the deal, assuming the prospect cost isn’t too great. We are absolutely murdered by below average LHP consistently, and unless we’re playing the Reds, that will hurt us tremendously in the playoffs where the rotations are smaller and each game is of greater importance.
We don’t know if Manny will be available. We don’t know how much he will cost. We don’t even know if he’s healthy.
If Lee checks out healthy, he could dramatically improve our chances in the playoffs. It’s a “meh” move for the season, but, thanks to the Wild Card, our playoff chances are extremely high, and we will need his bat in a short series against a lefty starter.
considering we’re getting adequate production from all other positions now (even cf since melky’s been hitting pretty fair of late), the obvious upgrade was 1b and i’m glad to hear that the braves are making a move. our lineup just got a lot stronger.
But Lee is at least hitting with his injury (in whatever short time, but I think it still means something). Glaus limping around the diamond seemed to pretty much signal the end of his usefulness for the team, at least to this point. From a production standpoint, Glaus’s injury seems to be worse than Lee’s.
My list of unacceptable prospects to include in a Lee deal:
Teheran, Freeman, Delgado, Vizcaino, Kimbrel, Salcedo, Kimbrel, Bethancourt, Hoover, and Mycal Jones
Did I leave anyone out?
I’d include Beachy, Lopez, Spruill, DeVall and Schafer on that list. Mike Dunn, too, if you assume he’s back to Gwinnett when EOF is activated.
@144
since we have few good rhp options now (farnsworth, moylan, saito), wouldnt you think the lisp will be the one headed back to gwinnett?
I could see it being a Marek type going back.
our bullpen, even without saito or wagner, is going to be stellar next year. stellar and downright cheap.
146—Oh, I’d include Marek on my list, too.
145—No. He’s the closest thing we have to a mop-up (long) reliever right now. Could be wrong. Dunn’s definitely a better pitcher.
Another plus with Derrek Lee is that we might get draft picks.
@143, @144, Neither Kimbrel or Dunn would clear waivers.
On Shanks Twitter he says an Xm report has one of the pieces being Schafer
Remember when we were worried about our bullpen for this year?
I kind of think Schafer is broken, and I wouldn’t mind seeing him gone.
the braves are either going to dfa or dl glaus which could save almost 500k in performance bonuses.
if there’s any type of decent prospect going to the cubs, might we be getting his salary paid for? i sure hope so.
to re-capture the feeling from last night:
DIORY!!!!! ….?!
@150, I guess that means no team worse than the Cubs wants Schafer on their 40-man. Even the Pirates. Ouch.
Well, I guess Stu hates the deal now. We might be giving up Jordan Schafer.
151—He may well be, but the chance that he isn’t is enough to make it not worth including him in a deal like this, IMO.
I could go through a multi-paragraph rant, but I’m hungry, so I’m just gonna go to lunch and leave it at this:
To say that people are being absurd about this deal on here would be an understatement. It’s not about who we’re giving up (at least until Stu realizes we’re giving up Jordan Schafer [NOTE: I’m kidding, Stu]), it’s that you assume that we could get whoever we want in a freaking waiver deal.
157—What are you talking about? Seriously. I don’t understand your waiver point.
And I must say that I barely recognized your previous post because it wasn’t attached to 4 other massive paragraphs.
the deal should be finalized this afternoon and glaus will go to the bench which means that diory will be back at AAA, right?
If his back checks out, I’d say the bigger issue (bigger that is than the mediocre prospects that are likely to be in the package) is whether Lee will want a deal for next year to consent to the trade. Maybe he’ll be happy enough to leave Chicago a few months early and get onto a first place team, but he may also see this as leverage for a one-year deal.
I hope we’re not giving up Jordan Schafer. I hate selling a guy at the bottom of his value. Honestly, I’d rather give up a guy like Marek, whose ceiling is a relief pitcher, than Schafer, whose ceiling is a decent everyday player. We have a whole lot more pitchers than Schafers in the system.
On the other hand, I wouldn’t at all mind giving up on Kody Johnson.
151- Agreed. I think Schafer’s boat has sailed, and if Lee’s healthy and fits in the budget, let’s do it.
Question: If we waives his 10-and-5 rights, does that mean we can trade him anywhere we want to if we have him next year? Like, say we offer arbitration and he accepts — could we pull a Soriano and just trade him for whatever we can get?
160—I doubt we’ll have to add any years onto his deal, but we may well have to offer a no-trade or no-arb-offer clause.
EDIT: Via Twitter, Peter seems to believe that we could trade him. I bet Lee’s going to want a guarantee that we can’t send him, for example, to the Angels.
In Wren we (I) trust. I like the move, barring the player going back being any one of our top prospects. It can only be an improvement over Glaus.
Considering the restrictions of the post-deadline waiver set up, I like the deal even more.
@149
Waivers not needed for players to be named later, are they
10-5 rights would not apply because Lee will not have been with the same team the previous 5 years.
Well, obviously — I asked if there would be some other reason why we couldn’t trade him.
EDIT: Part of the confusion may be that I typed “we” instead of “Lee” above. Sorry about that weird mistake.
Oh, well he would still have a the full no trade clause in his current contract, unless he and Braves agreed to amend it. That protection would not extend past the end of post-season play, when his contract ends.
Yeah, this was probably a dumb question.
@165, I have no idea. I’m also not sure when the player has to be optioned to qualify. You’re right, though. There are some conceivable rule combinations that could allow us to option Dunn or Kimbrel to AAA, then put him on the PTBNL list, only finishing the trade after the season is complete.
I don’t know if it works that way, though. Those rules aren’t exactly public.
Know what would be awesome? Make a trade with a PTBNL on your ML roster who helps you win the WS. Then he’s traded to complete the deal in the off-season. I bet that there are rules against that sort of thing, but I think it would be mighty funny. :-)
Apparently The Roach just cleared waivers… Would we want Lee more than Adam? Adam gives us a 1B for next year if we don’t want to free Freddy… though not exactly a cheap 1B.
@172 I think it’s been mentioned here that Adam is going to be way too expensive next year.
Anyone read anything from DOB on Lee yet?
http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2010/08/18/braves-pursuing-trade-for-cubs-derrek-lee/?cxntfid=blogs_atlanta_braves_blog&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
IMHO we will get a 1b thats only for this year. The Braves will be counting on FF being the real deal for 2011.
Mainstream press and Peanut reporting the on it now. Must be a real deal.
Lee may not be great, but he is clearly an upgrade over Glaus. How long can one month outweight incredibly horrible hitting? I understand he might be hurt but it’s hard to be believe that Derrick Lee wouldn’t add something over what Glaus is providing.
Meanwhile, do we have to accept that Jason Heyward is,at this point, a pretty ordinary player that isn’t going to get hot this year? I’m assuming he is not healthy–at least I hope that’s the reason because he’s becoming somewhat of a black hole in right field. And I understand the other things he brings, but I was hoping and expecting by now that he would be a major contributor. There are other rookies that are much more productive right now. Frankly, if he had started off like this, he would be in the minors.
I agree that Glaus looks done, and that Lee would be an upgrade (he has been hitting since the middle of July, before, he stunk) BUT, I would hate to give up a decent prospect for six weeks of Lee. If I were Wren, I’d just swallow the bullet and give Freeman the first base job the rest of the season.
My line-up
Infante 2b
Prado 3b
Heyward RF
McCann C
Agony SS
Freeman 1B
Diaz/Ankiel LF/CF platton
Melky CF/LF
Hinske and Conrad as subs, DL Glaus til Sept and hope that he can contribute after sone time off.
LaRoche just clear waivers…just saying.
I love DLee in a Braves uni. I think it would do wonders for Heyward also. Well at least I hope.
From DOB:
Lee hit twice as many homers (four) last weekend in St. Louis as Glaus has hit in his past 46 games. The struggling Glaus has hit .174 with only two home runs and 15 RBIs in his past 46 games.
The front office must be afraid the lineup would be too LH heavy, or they just don’t think Freeman is ready. I would rather start Freeman’s clock than give up a good prospect for a rental.
Let Melky stay in CF and do the platoon of Diaz/Hinske in LF. Ankiel sucks.
Lee isn’t exactly exciting at this point in his career. But, if he’s healthy (big if?), then he can help out.
Who was in the opening day lineup again? heh heh
180 — DOB said that Ankiel sucks? (kidding, I’m assuming his quote was only the first block of text.)
I was afraid that Ankiel was going to play too much when he came over…
so, if d.lee is in the lineup tomorrow, what does it look like? assuming it’ll probably be against lannan, i’d bet bobby would go with…
prado
infante
d. lee
diaz
mccann
gonzalez
heyward
melky
@178
If Lee deal falls through, I think its Barbaro time. Seriously, what else does he have to do? I know the man can’t field, but neither can 2010 Troy Glaus.
Barbaro has put up a .336/.401/.493 this year including a .414/.490/.609 since the break. I don’t understand what the Braves have to gain by using a 30 year old who owns AAA hitting as organizational filler, unless they are grooming him to be organizational hitting coach.
Putting in Barbaro replaces Glaus with someone who can hit and allows you to save Freeman for another year.
183—DOB says Lee won’t be in the line-up until Friday, in Chicago. Gotta get through his epidural.
@185
oh…espn said he wouldnt play until thursday, but that was earlier today.
I’d like to get Lee before we get to Chicago. He will probably dominate his old team and, in true ex Cub fashion, hit like .440 the rest of the way.
@183
Not sure Lee will be ready to play tomorrow b/c of back. I imagine when he is ready, we will see following against righties:
1 Infante
2 Heyward
3 Prado
4 Lee
5 McCann
6 Gonzo
7 Ankiel
8 Melkman
9 P
and against Lefties
1 Infante
2 Heyward
3 Prado
4 Lee
5 McCann
6 Diaz
7 Gonzo
8 Ankiel
9 P
@158
My point was that you’re assuming that Ramirez or Helms would even get to us on waivers. You don’t know that. People are just throwing out names on here they would like, and we wouldn’t even have a chance to get 90 percent of them. If you have a chance to get a player the quality of Derrek Lee in August, I don’t see the point of saying, “Well, hypothetically, there’s five people I’d like to have more.” You probably wouldn’t even have a chance to get them, anyway. I also must admit that I don’t really understand what your deal with Derrek Lee is.
A couple of points for the Wrenites who have been posting: only about 48 hours ago the Braves apparently turned down the chance to add Alvord and possibly Sabol to their organization. This is a missed opportunity and one that may not come around again for awhile. Alvord and Sabol would have made our somewhat respectable draft class a very strong one.
Now, Wren does deserve more credit than I have given him in past (I was very critical of the Vasquez deal), but we are still having trouble improving the team with Lowe’s contract.
With the respect to Lee, I would not hesitate to trade Schafer–he has never been able to demonstrate that he can play above AA…..
Nick,
There is some validity to what you are saying, but we can dream can’t we? lol
Plus, do we really want this in left field?
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=8652229
Has it been reported anywhere that Lee has even cleared waivers? I assume he has at this point or that the Braves claimed him, but I haven’t seen it anywhere.
I, for one, would miss our dinosaur at 1B. True, he didn’t hit much lately, but that is hardly his fault. And he carried the team when we needed it most. Even with his shortcomings – or, to a small degree, even because of them – I have come to like Troy (whom I called an “out machine” right after the signing).
Stephen, it’s great to see you around! How goes it in the UAE?
189—Well, I couldn’t be more clear about my point with Lee, and as I said, I’m done repeating myself.
And, yes, you can be sure that Ramirez would get to us on waivers.
Hell, let’s get Manny too and end this thing now!
@190
I trust our front office on the way the handle draft selections. See: Mike Minor
Those guys might have wanted their own private jets or something. Let’s focus on today, we can win it all this year. Our chances improve if we can get a bat. If Lee hits like he has in the past, we become a tough out in THIS October.
Not saying trade the farm for him, but if we can get a bat cheap, we have to do it. Wren has made some good moves (we are in first place)
I love a good discussion as much as anybody – but don’t you guys have jobs? How can you post so much all day?
:-)
The important thing to remember is that this team sucks, Bobby Cox is senile, Frank Wren is a moron, our offense is terrible, our pitching staff is inconsistent, and everyone on the team should be fired.
197—Amen! Maybe we’re giving them Schafer so that they’re paying all of Lee’s salary, and we’ll still have budgetary room for MannyBeingManny.
Good enough dreaming for ya, Johnny? :)
Bethany and Stu,
I love it.
It’s surprising to me that Lee has had a few more ABs this year than Glaus. The ideal scenario would be to let Glaus take a few weeks off on the DL and then give him enough bats to start warming up in mid September. By the time we got to the playoffs we could have Glaus coming off the bench and then as the DH in the World Series. Hey, if Stu can dream, so can I. I still don’t want Manny.
Weird Jason Heyward fact.
Over his last 14 games, this is how many hits he has had in each game:
0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1
Aha! Proof that he is, in fact, a superhuman robot. He performs in binary code.
I’d gladly include Schafer in the deal. I agree that he still could become an average major league CF, but that doesn’t mean we’d be trading a major league CF. That’s just gazing at the ceiling — a textbook case of overvaluing your own prospects.
Anyway, there’s a fellow at AAA right now with the same ceiling….
206- Or it may be that he simply needs a change of scenery. Perhaps he’s argued with teammates and coaches, doesn’t like the food, or there’s some other little thing that bugs him. It may be that he can become a competent CF, but it just doesn’t look like it’ll happen in Atlanta.
I don’t see why people think the Braves wouldn’t go for Manny because of his defence, we ran Garret Anderson out there all last year.
I think the attitude is overblown too, mainly by teams wanting an excuse to move him without angering the fans. I think he would be absolutely no bother at all to have for 6-10 weeks and he has a great work ethic.
I agree with the Glaus to DL move if we get Lee. Thank him for his efforts over the last couple of months when he was hurt and tell him we need him to rest for the stretch run and the playoffs.
Alex, have you mentioned this to Robot Heyward on twitter?
Still laughing at 204, thanks for that bit of trivia!
Whoa, I had no idea! I’ll tweet it to him now.
@208
The part that still shocks me is that we wouldn’t pursue Dunn because of his D, yet bit on ACHE
If he continues that pattern for two more games the binary would translate to UU.
Thanks AAR! I am actually back in Connecticut and finally in a position to enjoy most of Braves Journal as it happens….
#198–We should have been able to sign Alvord without making ourselves less competitive in 2010. By the way, Alvord was willing to turn down a commitment to Auburn (where his family had played ball) and give the Braves a hometown discount…
I hope we can pick up Lee….
Hometown discounts for 17th round draft picks evidently not being what they used to be….
OK, I’m getting a little scared. Specifically, the word “solid” is what’s doing it.
A 17th round pick probably shouldn’t be asking so much that he needs to give a discount, right?
I’ll enjoy watching him play here.
@177, Right now, Heyward is looking at only the 19th best age 20 season in the history of baseball (using OPS+ as a measure). He clearly needs to step it up. Just because he’s a rookie (unlike, say, Ty Cobb, Mel Ott, or Griffey, Jr. in their superior age 20 years) does not mean he gets to use that as an excuse.
Shoot, even among 20 year old rookies, he’s only fifth all-time. I mean, he has to play better. Scrubs like Ted Williams, Frank Robinson, Orlando Cepeda, and Willie Mays had better age 20 rookie years.
He barely even beats Eddie Mathews for best Braves age 20 season ever. How disappointing.
Again, Alvord was a top-round talent. Less than $1 million would indeed be a discount. That he was picked that late tells you how strong his commitment to Auburn was.
218—Yeah, but I think the point would have been made a little better had nobody bothered to respond.
#215+ #217–The hometown discount was second round money….
On the positive side, the Braves were right not to use one of their top 10 picks because they understood that Alvord was a ‘tough sign’….
Boring game thread is up.
@216 – When negotiating a trade, every prospect is solid, even ML-ready. Let’s not sweat before the deal is done.
On the positive side, the Braves were right not to use one of their top 10 picks because they understood that Alvord was a ‘tough sign’…
That, to me, is the crux of the matter.