Los Angeles Dodgers vs. Atlanta Braves – Box Score – August 15, 2010 – ESPN.
Where did that come from? The Braves jumped all over the Dodgers with what (lately) has been a week’s worth of offense. After a 1-2-3 first inning (no surprise when after Omar Infante in the leadoff spot we saw the noted non-on-base skills of Rick Ankiel and Alex Gonzalez) McCann led off the second with a single, only to be erased on a Glaus GIDP. So you’re thinking, “Here we go again”. And then they put up 13 runs over the next six innings.
Conrad led off the third with a single, then scored on a double by Melky. Jair Jurrjens sacrificed, then Melky came home on an Infante single. Ankiel followed with another single, then AAG tripled in the gap. Just to remind you who we are, McCann was intentionally walked and Glaus and Hinske struck out to end the inning, but four runs is a lot these days.
Then they’d get more. They loaded the bases in the fifth with another Omar single, an Ankiel walk (he walked twice today!) and Gonzalez getting hit by a pitch. (No suspension forthcoming.) McCann hit a sac fly, then Glaus hit a homer, because, hey, why not? 8-0.
Jurrjens was cruising, looking great again through the first five innings. He was hit on the ankle by a line drive leading off the sixth and wasn’t that sharp afterwards, though he gave up just one run, on a bases-loaded GIDP in the seventh. For the game, he struck out seven and walked just one, with six hits, and most of the time they put it in play it was on the ground. Works really well.
The Braves got another run on a sac fly by AAG in the sixth, and poured it on with four more runs in the eighth. Everybody got in on it. Ross got into the game (and scored a run), getting a couple of innings off for the team’s good player. Dunn and the Lisp pitched the last two innings to show that they’re still alive. Diory didn’t get into the game, though, I don’t know why, everyone else did (except Heyward, whose knee is acting up).
Moved from game thread:
Every team in the division has a losing road record, and nearly every one a winning home record (Marlins are 29-30 in Miami), led of course by the Braves’ absurd 41-16 home mark.
Upshot of this is that we really have to put a little distance between ourselves and the Phils, and ideally the other division leaders, before we hit the last couple weeks, when it’s three away series in the division before closing at home against the Marlins, who are so far the best NL East team in others’ parks and who are, besides, evil.
Last 3 games of the season?
Phils visit The Ted.
Here’s hoping we have a 4-game lead when that series starts.
Response to the game thread:
Cliff, that is correct. It’s only if a player is claimed on waivers that a trade has to be made within two days.
1995 all over again, with an even better bullpen.
Huddy = Maddux.
Jair = Glavine.
Hanson = Smoltz.
Minor = Avery.
Lowe = Mercker.
Went to the game courtesy of sdp… thanks!
When I last saw the Braves live, it was in May and I didn’t see Melky in the field. Or maybe I did but blocked it out. In any event, I can’t really put into words just how awful he looks out there. I’ve enjoyed his rise to league average hitting lately, true, but I can’t handle the inevitable ulcer I’ll get if he keeps playing the field.
All that said, the Dodgers’ outfield defense is so atrocious that it defies words. Ethier might have fewer fielding instincts than anyone I’ve ever watched (the angle he took on Gonzalez’s triple was remarkable). I can’t begin to imagine what that group looks like with Manny in the field with them. What a horribly conceived team.
@2 Whoops, I completely missed the October close to the schedule, how embarrassing. Really hope it doesn’t come down to that last homestand, even if we are the best in the game at home.
I wonder if we’ve tried to get Ankiel to be more patient at the plate. He’s looked horrible with us in many respects, but one strange thing is that he’s walked 6 times in 39 ABs for Atlanta. This is strange because he walked 7 times in 92 ABs for Kansas City. Besides the walks he’s also worked the count fairly well. I’m not saying that he’s actually been a useful player (he hasn’t), but if somehow he could keep the plate discipline and start hitting with some authority, he may work out after all. I know this is probably dreaming, but I like the guy and hope he does well.
No prob, Adam!
It’s official: Tommy John surgery for Medlen on Wednesday.
That’s the power of hate, Mac.
9–bummer–guess we’ll next see Medlen in Sept 2011
13 runs from this line up–get the #$%^ out of here. It must be a hoax (I wasn’t watching b/c I took my kid to the Rome Braves game).
btw, wouldn’t this have been the perfect sort of game to let Hinske have the last couple of innings at 3B?
On any given day, any given lineup can beat the hell out of Vincente Padilla. You guys tend to over-predict specific game results from large-sample trend analysis, IMHO.
EDIT – And I don’t think we’re going to see Hinske play 3B outside of very weird, the bench has been depleted and it’s the 15th inning situations.
medlen, prado, and chipper all in a months time….youch!
Sooo.. do we hang onto JJ now? Do we try and get a prospect (Teheran, Delgado, Beachy?) ready for the start of 2011 and still trade JJ if the right offer comes along?
with Medlen down, you keep JJ. Only pitchers the Braves should try to move would be KK or Lowe
@15 I have a bad feeling that “try” will be the key word this offseason. I can’t see anybody taking either of them, unless something for Figgins works out.
shocking finish to this pga championship
I can see a couple of teams taking KK. A one year deal at $7mil isnt a bad gamble
Chipper Jones…
“I guess over the last two months I’ve come to the realization, not to sound brash or anything, that I’m more valuable than I thought I was,” said Jones, who had been in a hitting resurgence from June 15 until his injury Tuesday at Houston.
“I would miss that if I were to make the decision now to turn away, I think I would regret it. That’s why I didn’t make it. I think for my own peace of mind I need to act like I’m going to spring training to get this thing better….
“If it’s good, great. I’m sure I’ll have my spot. If it’s not, and I need more time, I’ve got a good [rapport] with Frank [Wren, Braves general manager]. I’ll hopefully have a good rapport with the next manager and be able to say, ‘Look, I’m not quite ready yet.’ I don’t want to have it turn into a Tommy Glavine situation. That would be what I would hate the most. But I’ll know. And I’ll make the decision.
“If the Braves come to me in spring training and say, ‘Hey, this is it. We’ve got this or kid’ or ‘We have somebody else,’ then it will be decision time.”
Anyone see David Wright crying over how much the Mets suck?
http://i36.tinypic.com/2d2aa3b.gif
Every M. Night Shyamalan film is worse than the one he put out the previous year. Does this make him the Jeff Francoeur of Hollywood?
I feel like I’m choosing sides at Leningrad. Go Soviets!!! I mean Mets!!!
ESPN must be forcing them to play this game because they don’t have anything else to cut to during the delay. This is ridiculous.
Maybe more Phillies will get injured though.
@21
You mean Mac hasn’t already done a, “If Jeff Francoeur wrote and directed movies, it might go something like this…”
(Insert latest M. Night Trailer)
The Happening was one of the funniest movies I’ve seen over the last few years. I’d recommend it to anyone with a sense of humor.
And Kendrick got thrown out at first by the right fielder. How many times does that happen twice in a week?
I stopped watching Shyamalan movies after “Lady in the Water.” They had been going steadily downhill for awhile, and “The Village” was really bad, but “Lady in the Water” is one of the 10 worst movies I’ve ever seen. So very, very bad.
23- Wouldn’t surprise me. We had a game with the Mets on April 25th under similar circumstances, also televised by the Worldwide Leader. Hanson lost 1-0 in 5 innings.
@26 I went to his latest knowing that it would suck–he directed it after all–but the cartoon series had been so good that I was hoping he couldn’t ruin it. He did. Oh well. And yet just as Francouer still has KC is as a future employer, there’s some Hollywood producers who will bankroll Shyamalan’s next film.
Go Mets!
(throws up)
Nate 0-4 now hitting .223, I dont know what to say at this point. Can the Braves force him to play winter ball?
#!5 I agree we keep JJ but one of the kids will probably have to be traded. We have too many positional holes to fill. Lowe has leprosy and we if we can move him KK won’t get anything of consequence back.
Derek Lowe and Kenshin Kawakami are both perfectly reasonable #3/4 starters in MLB. If the Braves can move them for more needed pieces, fine and good. But it’s stupid to pretend that they’re worthless.
Major League Baseball umpires miss 20 percent of close calls, according to “Outside The Lines” survey – ESPN.
Remarkably, one in five blown calls are by the Hohn/Darling crew.
LOL Mets.
Ye gods and little fishes, the Mets suck.
I hate you Francoeur.
Frenchy Man, Frenchy Man
Does whatever a Frenchy Man does
Can he hit worth a damn?
No he can’t, he’s Frenchy Man
Look out, he’s Frenchy Man!
I read an article in the paper a few days ago about Ruiz. One of the Phillies coaches said that he was the second best catcher in the NL. Behind Molina. That kind of pissed me off.
Well, IMO, Molina isnt the best catcher in the NL. Defensively, its not close, he’s far superior. However, BMac’s offensive production makes him #1
38,
Really pisses me off. But the fact that the Phillies have that big of a moron on their coaching staff offsets the anger.
Bull-monkey.
22- Soviets lose, 3-1. Damn their incompetent hides.
Commie bastards.
This suck, Madson and Lidge are finding their old forms again.
44, All they found was the 2010 Mets. I went to the game. Man the Mets suck.
First case ever of bolas azules. I’m in some serious pain
FWIW, Goldstein thinks we’ll get Alvord signed. That would be great.
The New York Mess.
This too shall pass, SDP. Ice helps, and lots of beer.
Ouch. Get well soon, sdp-san.
Stu…
it would be VERY VERY nice if he could sign both Alvord and Sabol.
I’m just pissed that we didn’t sign Rendon. “The Braves flew him (Rendon) out to Georgia to play in a wood bat tournament, but didn’t like what they saw enough to offer him first day money, so Rendon went to school in the fall in his hometown for the Rice Owls.” That, right there, is just stupid.
Sabol and Alvord would help out our pitching in 3 years SUBSTANTIALLY. Sabol is said to be shifting to the OF anyway, so that would be VERY nice.
Well, Sabol appears a lot less likely to get signed.
#32 I didn’t say they are worthless. Lowe is untradeable for 15 million reasons, see 2009 off season. KK could be traded but the return would be minimal considering he is making 8 million dollars ……. in AAA.
Not sure if you’ve noticed but our AAA pitchers are #4s in some orgs.
I know. Better still, some of our #4s are #2s in some orgs.
you dont worry about the return you get by trading KK. You trade him for nothing more than salary relief. KK is worth whats he’s getting paid in his final year, but he’s not worth that salary and a bunch of prospects
This morning I heard the dumbest baseball analysis ever by Eric Casillas, filling for Mike and Mike with Tim Kurjian. They were discussing whether Chipper is a Hall of Famer. Kurjian (sp?) was strongly advocating Chipper as a first ballot HOF, point out that many of his rate stats were higher than guys like George Brett and that he was probably one of the top five third basemen of all time. Casillas, who I hate to acknowledge has a law degree, was pooh-poohing Chipper because he wasn’t “dominant” enough, meaning he hadn’t reached any “milestone” figures, such as 3000 hits. But he also argued that Chipper was just a “compiler” while at the same time celebrating guys like Robin Yount, who was nothing but a compiler. And he was arguing that Maddux and Smoltz were the best players on the Braves, not even mentioning Glavine, even though Smoltz was no better than the number three starter for most of his tenure. It was just absurd and you could see Kurjian trying to avoid calling the guy a dumb ass. ESPN has so many people that don’t know anything about baseball and couldn’t care less.
Casillas is not necessarily that stupid. ESPN instructs its people to take opposing sides on the issues, and the junior guy will often wind up having to take on an impossible argument.
So is Joe Morgan always the junior guy?
No, he’s just stupid.
The word “compiler” doesn’t apply to Chipper. There is no plausible argument against him, but whatever argument there is boils down to a critique of his injuries, and his resultant lack thereof of counting stat milestones. It would be completely unpersuasive, but that’s the absolute only case you could make against him.
Also, speaking of M. Night Shyafrancoeur, I really wish that he hadn’t been handed a three-film deal.
From 95 to 2010 Chipper averaged 142 games at 306/.405/.536 (142 OPS+) 27HR, 97R and 156 hits. Unless he was a LF (and really, even then) he’s easily in.
@60 – Oh, that makes sense.
#62 – I’d say he is a pretty good ballplayer. HOFer for sure.
Whats the consensus? Do people want Chipper to play next year or not?
I want him to play.
@61,
That’s exactly the point. If anything, he’s the opposite of a compiler. Someone like Cal Ripkin, for as much respect as I have for him, was a classic compiler. He played a long time (obviously) in a lot of games and had a lot of mediocre years, but was able to get to 3000 hits. Same, I think, with Yount. Chipper’s home run totals have been reduced by his injuries and by playing most of his career in a big ballpark; if he had played in the old stadium,he would probably have a lot more home runs.
Based on Mac’s comment, I will give Casillas the benefit of the doubt. But Kurjian seemed really exasperated.
As for Joe Morgan, can anyone tell me why ESPN thinks that Morgan and Jon Miller are a good team? Aside from Morgan’s hatred for statistics, they clearly don’t work well off each other; Morgan doesn’t really get Miller’s sense of humor and they just seem so awkward together. Morgan is better (a relative term) with other play-by-play guys that are less avuncular than Miller. I’d much rather listen to Dave Campbell, who does the games on the radio.
59 & 60 – lol! Thanks.
—————–
I want the in-better-shape-than-he’s-been-in-in-years-Chipper-with-a-bionic-knee-and-a-chip-on-his-shoulder guy to return.
Otherwise, I want him as hitting coach (and I swear he seems to be making noises that he’d like that role).
Agree with Marc about the Miller / Morgan poor fit. Hershiser helps (if only because the laws of Physics require Morgan to speak less with Orel in the booth), but you’re right – it’s kinda like if Costas went on a date with Jessica Simpson – both have their talents, but …
Stu, the other site is saying that Sabol is leaning towards signing and, again, I’m reading that Alvord is also leaning towards signing.
Evidently, we’re throwing 1st day money at both of them.
Well, I hope so. We certainly ought to have some spare change available. I know that our top 11 picks have cost less than $3.3 million, combined.
Braves now 2d in the league in ERA & R/G to the Padres; also 2d in ERA+ to the Giants.
Also 1st in OBP (duh) and a close 4th in OPS+ (wha?).
Is there any reason not to make Chipper a player/manager next year? I can think of a couple:
1. TP’s been waiting around for 9 years and another club might snap him up
2. Fredi’s unlikely to remain unemployed for long.
Those scenarios are only relevant if the FO truly covets those guys as manager. I don’t know if Chipper has the desire, but he has the demeanor for it.
The Giants have an amazing rotation, but I wouldn’t trade ours for theirs. There’s something seriously wrong with Lincecum, and I don’t trust Madison Bumgarner’s arm either. Jonathan Sanchez is a cross between Johan Santana and Oliver Perez, and Barry Zito’s contract makes Derek Lowe’s look reasonable. If Sanchez takes a step forward with his control, he’d be one of the best pitchers in the league, but that’s offset by the continued deterioration in Lincecum.
With the continued development of Hudson, Jurrjens, Medlen, and Minor, I think we’re much better built for the future.
@73, I concede that the pitching is awesome, but assuming Chipper is gone for next year, we are banking on Freeman being really good. A middle of the order type RH LF and adequate fulltime CF are still big holes to fill.
#73
Medlen’s not developing for another 6 months. But you could include Beachy and DEFINITELY Teheran and Vizcaino in that. I was never really high on Delgado, and he’s young for AA, but he’s struggling mightily right now.
#74
spike, what about 3B? are we keeping Prado there? also, if we get a CF (Coco Crisp?) and RH Left Fielder (Werth please) what on earth do we do with McLouth and Melky/Diaz? I think we keep Diaz (as he mashes lefties and he can play LF and RF) but the others? DFA? Trade for spare parts?
A new chapter has been added to my car search. Someone just tried to scam me on craigslist.
Most miserable experience ever.
Please Braves, win tonight and lift my spirits!
Will we ever see another player/manager?
I just don’t feel like that’s ever going to happen again.
One you might’ve missed:
http://www.arthritistoday.org/news/chipper-jones-acl-surgery074.php
The sixth and seventh relievers were the death knell for the two coolest bench roles — pinch runner and player/manager. I’d advocate for a 26th roster spot if I wasn’t sure everyone would use it on yet another reliever.
Chris @ 75,
Vizcaino is resting to see if he can rehab a damaged ulnar collateral ligament. I believe surgery will be coming. Even if not, I don’t see them counting on him foranything more than a starter at the Beach.
The starting pitching thing is whether you use up a cost controlled year for Teheran and pay money to someone to take Lowe or dump Kawakami for basically nothing. If you dont KNOW he is ready, it doesn’t make sense to use Teheran as a starter in 2011.
#76 – that reminds me. If anyone ever sees an add on craigslist or autotrader.com talking about a military person moving overseas and trying to sell a car quickly, avoid it. Ive seen 4 clients being scammed with this scenario
In case you missed it (and most of Will Carroll’s story is behind a pay wall at BP) Liberty Media sells drugs.
@75 – in theory, you could go with Prado at 3rd and Infante or at 2nd and do ok. The CF situation has to be addressed, and Hinske/Diaz makes a fine platoon in LF, but IMO there needs to be another everyday guy somewhere that is a true middle of the order hitter. Tough to trade McClouth, but at least he’s the only one that has a contract. Melky, recent surge and all, and Ankiel seem like very fungible parts.
I don’t care for Liberty (I guess they’re better than AOL-TW), but I don’t really see the problem. It isn’t like they are funneling banned substances to the Braves organization or anything. Since the supplement is apparently legal, there doesn’t seem to be any reason for MLB or anyone else to care.
I skimmed part of it (and some is behind the paywall), so I’ll just guess that the argument is that it’s either hypocritical for baseball to let a franchise owner sell a questionable-but-legal enhancer or that he’s using it to reexamine the villainizing (I just made that word up) stance against steroids. Perhaps an element of truth to both, but perception is a factor and steroids are a controlled substance, so not a great comparison.
The bit about the supplements being used recreationally (I’m pretty sure I didn’t make that one up – come on Opera spell check) is kind of weak. You can make the same argument for airplane glue. If the FDA wants to regulate, then it should be a story, IMO.
ETA: both words are in online dictionaries, ha!
Not that the Braves will be active in the FA market next year but who are the good to great hitters in this years FA class? Does Cots have that info?
MLBTR does. 2011 Free Agents.
Meanwhile, the insane people at the World Anti-Doping Agency want to put caffeine on the banned list. Maybe Coca-Cola can buy the team.
Kevin Millar available as FA. LOL!
I’m not sure the Braves will ever get back into the elite hitter FA market, and it’s a defensible strategy. I think if it happens it will be a young pitching for mature hitting trade.
Caffeine in certain quantities is banned in high school sports already.
Of course in NJ where I am they only test teams that make the state playoffs and only a couple of them at all.
I would have, and still would, fail that test every time.
Mac,
I’m glad someone else thinks the World Anti-Doping Agency is out of their minds. If you are the Kerensky (Menshivik) of stats, these people are the Taliban of drug testing.
@72 We all went a little round and round on this on a previous thread, but the consensus kind of was, put delicately, there’s a fairly good chance Chipper is dumb. I’ve just never heard any other player or coach during his career talk about him using any of those “thinks like a manager”, “really understands the game” statements that tend to indicate managerial capabilities.
In fact, it’s worth noting that a very large percentage of baseball players are, god bless them, I love them all, basically stupid.
Craig Calcaterra has a piece at Hardball Talk on the WADA weirdos.
Chipper, of course, was drafted out of high school. It is rare today for a manager to have no college, and most of the younger managers have degrees.
Just glancing at the MLBTR FA list. There aren’t any outfielders,1b or 3bs we would want. Caveat, of course we would want Albert but I have a sneaking suspicion that the Cards exercise their option.
We’ll have to trade one of the ‘suspects’ for some hitting. With Medlen down, IMHO, Jair is off the table.
edit: #92 yeah that’s why articulate guys like Tom Glavine and John Smoltz tend to stand out.
I find the predisposition that great hitters make great hitting coaches, and great players make great managers somewhat odd, given the number of counterexamples out there.
I would go after that Carl Crawford kid.
He’s okay.
Isn’t Werth a FA? He’d look awful nice in LF.
RE: Alvord/Sabol
How good are these guys? I recall them being long-shots to sign. If they did sign, about where would they rank in our prospect list? Top 10? Top 20? Top 5?
Werth has some pretty severe home/road splits. Only 4 HR’s away from Philly.
Someone actually wrote a piece about this where they argued that basketball and football were so much more complex when played at the highest level that they kind of exposed people who couldn’t read defenses, adjust on the fly, or remember assignments and how to react in different scenarios. It was hard to be dumb and also good at those sports.
Baseball is far simpler and a lot of the strategic thinking in it resides solely with managers and coaches so there’s no need to weed out the stupid on the field quite as much. It’s also why stupid in baseball is so much more frustrating because we can see the stupid much more clearly. You have to really be on top of the ins and outs of say basketball to jump up and down when a power forward doesn’t drop down off a high screen and slide over to the weakside because that was the same play they ran in the final seconds two quarters ago. As opposed to “Yunel stay on the bag until he catches it so you can score!!”
Curt Flood told a story in his book about asking for technical hitting advice from Stan Musial. Musial sort of hemed and hawed and then finally said something like, “aw, just see the ball and hit the shit out of it.” Chipper would probably be a little more articulate than that, but many of the best hitting coaches were not particularly good hitters. As for being a player-manager, why would you have a guy that has never even been a coach manage a contending team?
Nothing like an article about the Mets’ demise to get you through the day.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2010/08/15/2010-08-15_2006_to_2010_how_the_new_york_mets_have_flushed_four_years_down_the_drain.html
regarding big named signings for next year…
unless the braves can trade kawakami and mclouth without taking on any major contracts, the braves will have no money for next year. it’s a very sad truth. the braves already have 66.5 million committed to 9 players. after factoring in arb-eligible players and pre-arb players, there’ll be nothing left except chump change. if chipper decides to retire after spring, it’ll be a different story, but by that time there will be nothing of value on the market. free agent wise, we’re in a crappy position next year.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tujElf32-2d237jk3IzWLsg&output=html
Most good hitter are probably excelled because of a natural talent. When something comes naturally to you, it’s hard to communicate that to those who don’t “get it”. I had this problem with math teachers. I do think that Chipper is a very cerebral hitter, so he would have more success than some at being a hitting coach. But on the same hand, part of Chipper’s success comes from his amazingly good memory, and that’s not something you can teach.
Chipper has always tinkered with his batting stance and swing, often making simultaneous yet different changes from each side of the plate. At the same time, he’s also adjusted to a particular game situation as well or better than any Braves hitter I can recall. Put all that together, and Chipper has one of the most, if not the most, cerebral approaches to hitting of any current major leaguer.
That tells me two things. One, he’d probably make a good hitting coach, whatever that would look like. Two, he ain’t dumb. Goofball redneck, sure. He’d probably say so himself. But not dumb.
It means nothing that he didn’t go to college. That was just the result of a rational cost/benefit analysis.
I generally believe that in all sports, it’s the guys with minimal physical skills who end up as the best managers/coaches. In order to succeed at the highest levels against the genetic freaks, they *really* have to understand the game.
Concerning Chipper as hitting coach:
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=10101
No argument either way. Just dig the piece.
I wouldn’t try to have a conversation with Chipper about The Stranger, but he’s not dumb. You don’t have to look any farther than his comments in the AJC to see that.
Maybe the reason nobody ever talks about how good a manager he’d be is that we’re always talking about how good a player he is. You generally hear that kind of thing about mediocre catchers and middle infielders. It’s just a way of justifying a roster spot…which we might have to do with Chipper next year.
Also, I’d love to see Matt Diaz teach hitting.
@106 – Oh, that screencap never gets old.
@104 I do think there was an earlier age in baseball where the very best guys on the field got rewarded with jobs as managers. Now the prejudice seems to be for those marginal players who had to be smart and workaholics to hang on in the game for however long. The prototypical manager is much more likely to be a light-hitting backup catcher. And as Mac pointed out some college or a degree is helpful. I think to manage in the big leagues effectively nowadays requires at least a working knowledge of statistical probabilities and guys who’ve shown an ability to study and retain and analyze information just have a leg up when it comes to getting hired. And for good reasons obviously.
98—Definitely top 20, definitely not top 5. They’re really good prospects, but we have a ridiculous amount of really good prospects in the system, already.
#97 – MLBTR list may be inaccurate. I didn’t see Werth on it.
I also wouldn’t put it passed Bill James to create a “Now You Can Manage Too!” book where every conceivable thing that could happen with every single player is color-coded and cross-referenced and you’ll just need to be super good at looking up stuff quickly. And also patting butts and creating encouraging nicknames.
112,
He’s listed under right field.
It would probably be a computer program actually. I’d pay good money to see us play against the Mets with Deep Blue managing on the bench. Occasionally it would order all the humans enslaved, but after we reboot it it would be back to ordering pitches thrown in the dirt against Jeffy.
A large part of the LHMISCTM (that’s Light-Hitting-Middle-Infielder-Slash-Catcher-Turned-Manager) phenomenon is that they get offered coaching positions when their playing careers are winding down because they’re about to need a job. The common wisdom that they make better managers or coaches is thus mostly selection bias.
#114 – DOH! thanks.
Werth would be nice to have. He doesn’t hit .340 .426 .634 1.060 in Turner field though. His career line of .271 .367 .477 .844 looks Ruthian compared to our present group.
Alas someone will give him a 45 million dollar contract next season, count it.
Ted Williams was a pretty good hitting coach. He was also probably the most cerebral hitter that ever lived. I don’t think Chipper is dumb, but doing and teaching are two different things. Lots of brilliant people are lousy teachers.
I don’t think great players are automatically bad managers, but I’m not sure they can always empathize with less gifted players. And, really, managing is about maximizing the talents of the entire team, especially the non-stars. Albert Pujols really doesn’t require a lot of managing. I think this is where Bobby Cox has excelled, whatever his possible tactical failings. It’s easy to pooh-pooh the psychological components of managing as being “old-school” bullshit, but these are people and psychology plays a role in most occupations.
Why put up with all the crap a coach or manager has to if you have millions in the bank or an oil well in your back yard. With the exception of pitch calling and defensive positioning baseball is a game of reaction. Once is start thinking it istoo late to react. The secret to managing is not to screw up a player, but give him a chance to succeed.
Ted Williams also managed perhaps the worst hitting team in modern MLB — the 1972 Texas Rangers. The era amplifies the suckitude, but gaze upon this:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/TEX/1972.shtml
Whose idea was it to have the Dodgers play a wrap-around series here in ATL and have the final game at 7:10 before a west-coast flight?
Advantage us, I guess.
There might also be something to the fact that those guys are spending a higher percentage of their career sitting on the bench watching and thinking about the game than the guys playing it at the higher levels.
I can’t recall if there’s a specific ration but most places put a premium on having done a job, vs having had training for the job. A lack of college education, doesn’t seem to be a huge ding against a guy looking for a job managing a baseball team (it IS, after all, a game… and a relatively simple one at that). I’d compare it to poker. There are some guys who have an education and use that higher math ability to play the game, but there are also a lot of guys who kill at the game via talent and years of learning on the job. One could approach baseball management with a combination of game theory and statistical analysis, and probably do quite well. But, one could also approach it with a lot of experience in how situations play out in real games and also do quite well.
I’m in the camp that thinks that Chipper, while a goofy redneck, does approach the game (at least the hitting part of it) with a fair amount of cerebral vigor and would probably make a pretty decent hitting coach. He’s also got enough experience, and seems interested in the game overall, to suggest he may have the ability to be a manager at some point as well.
Though, I still thank that Mr Maddux was WAY more cerebral about the game than anybody else we saw playing and HE would be my favorite player turned manager to watch.
I would suggest that the reason that managers are mostly (not always — John McGraw was a great player) mediocre players is that the skill sets to play and manage are actually quite different and there’s no relationship between the two. If managing skill is randomly distributed, then you would expect most managers to have been mediocre players, because there’s so many more of them.
If you can find a copy, try to pick up James’ Guide to Baseball Managers. It didn’t do well, for some reason, but it’s a terrific book.
And… game thread.
@122 I was always curious about Maddux, but I remember in interviews on a few occasions when the reporter would talk about his “cerebral approach” he would laugh it off and say that was just code for a guy he couldn’t throw more than 92 and still found a way to get hitters out. He would then go on to talk about what an idiot he was. Maybe false modesty, but there’s a chance we overestimate the intelligence of “crafty” pitchers just like we do backup middle infielders.
I still think it’s telling that chipper has been in the game forever and no one has ever talked about what a great manager he would be. You’d think if Bobby thought he had it in him he would have been throwing out cues about it for years now. Eddie Perez was getting that talk the whole last half of his career.
Also, I’m totally on my it’s completely f-ed up that Chris Chambliss hasn’t managed crusade. Minor league manager of the year the first year he managed anything, hitting coach for four world series champions. I think I read somewhere he helped draw up the plans for the Hadron Collider.
Also, he was super nice to me once when I was eight.
Chipper’s injury really puts a cloud over our potential free agent dealings. What could have been $20 million plus coming off the books is now only $7 million plus.
Mixed feelings about it here. I didn’t want Chipper to go out that way, but I was looking forward to what the Braves might do with a little money in the offseason.
As much as I dearly love baseball, I think even I would get tired of the travel, the heat, the Yunels and Clemenses of the game – so clearly just loving being in the dugout is a big part of it.
I think Chipper may be that guy. And the fact that his father is his de facto pitching coach likely means he has a feel for it and a respect for it that makes for a great one.
Manager? Maybe. Hitting coach? Oh, hell yea.
So is anybody up for a 3rd baseman? The defense is just horrid lately and just keeps letting Philly get closer and closer