Vitamin deficiency game thread: Aug. 19, Braves at Mets

NEW YORK (BRAVES JOURNAL WIRE SERVICES) — The New York Mets suffered another blow when centerfielder Angel Pagan was placed on the 15-day disabled list due to scurvy.

“Apparently, Angel wasn’t getting appropriate nutrition,” said manager Jerry Manuel. “Normally, we’d make sure that everyone on the team was properly fed, but the training staff has been so busy trying to keep everyone alive that they haven’t been able to.” Pagan was hitting .287 in place of the injured Carlos Beltran.

“I don’t need any citrus fruit,” said right fielder Jeff Francoeur. “I eat what I want, when I want, and the Mets let me. I love being a Met. For dinner last night I had a steak and three bags of M&Ms. I feel great, and I’m glad that the franchise believes in my nutritional values.”

138 thoughts on “Vitamin deficiency game thread: Aug. 19, Braves at Mets”

  1. ESPN says Smoltz has agreed to a deal with St. Louis.

    Sorry Alex R… he’s teamed up with the hateable face.

  2. “Immigrant Song” really is quintessential Zep—huge Page riff, Bonzo pummelling away, Plant moaning to the heavens about Valhalla. Massive, mega, marrauding Viking rock.

    I always found it a little odd that it kicks off Led Zeppelin III, which is really a full-on folk album.

  3. I’ve always liked ‘Immigrant Song’ too. It’s too bad the local classic rock station has run it into the ground. I swear all they play is that and ‘Seven Bridges Road’.

    Still a good song though. ‘Immigrant Song’ that is. Not the Eagles stuff. I’m with Jeff Lebowski on that one.

  4. I agree but more than anything I think Smoltz wants to show the world that Boston was an abberation. Sure, good luck to him.

  5. It wasn’t an aberration. Well, maybe it was tougher AL hitting, but my guess is that his slider doesn’t bite and he can’t locate like he needs to.

  6. my fantasy baseball keeper league team really wants smoltz to come back and dominate as a starter

  7. @10 Of course it was the American League, more good hitters.

    However, when the Pirates beat him, then that will be it for journeyman John Smoltz. How sad.

  8. Cox sucks. Teams perform better after firing managers in baseball and in soccer. Let’s play the percentages and bring in a new face.

  9. Infante at 2B and leading off. Garret Anderson and his .315 OBP in the two hole.

    Of course, that’s not Bobby’s fault.

  10. I will leave the Bobby Cox Phthags for a week or so after this one.

    Evidently, some people do not understand what it (the pythagorean win expectancy) measures or else are answering as if they don’t to act like they have proved a point when they haven’t.

    If good players are hurt and worse players play the innings / games, then the cumulative counting stats become more and more the stats of the bad players. Bad players don’t score a lot of runs. Bad players allow more runs to be scored by the other guys.

    Look at 2009 METS. No one (except the Braves last night) doubts that with the injuries they have had that they would not have a hard time winning. But that is because the production of Delgado is predominatly replaced by Murphy, Reyes by Anderson Hernandez and Alex Cora, Beltran by Angel Pagan, etc. But the statistics of 3rd order pythag (the component hitting, walking, power hitting, and base running on offensive side) will drop when the talent drops. So wil the pythag itself. So the expected (PYTHAG) wins drop with the quality of play.

    What the Braves have done for 4 years is produce less wins than they should have ASSUMING the exact people who were put in the lineup by Bobby Cox (NOT adjusting for who he COULD or SHOULD have played), who were on the roster by actions of Schuerholz, Wren, et al, who were not, by definition, unavailable by injury, who actually played the number of innings they played and produced the resuls they produced.

    Bad players DO NOT increase or decrease pythag probabilities (except for some slight effect if really consistently bad 8th and 9th inning close relief occurs which was not the case in 2007, 2008 and 2009). That is because the “raw numbers” of runs scored and “runs allowed” move up and down with the quality and peformance of the players.

    So ASSUMING you had exactly the performance the Braves have gotten from everybody on the 40 man roster, the team should have had 5 to 6 wins more per year. And again, in any one year, that is random noise. But 4 consecutive years?

    And 3rd order pythag was even off by more every year other than this one. By third order Braves should have won something like 85 games last year, as I remember.

  11. Right, and if Francoeur had hit .375 with 60HR and 175RBI he would have won the triple crown. What is your point?

  12. Apparently Eric Campbell was super happy that he got released. He wants another team to give him a major league spring training invite so that he can prove he can hit major league pitching.

    Eric, sweetheart, shouldn’t you try proving that you can hit minor league pitching first?

  13. Cant blame it all on Cox, sure he shares blame, but he makes decisions based on how a player is expected to play. Believe me, I’m all for a change at the helm, but to blame Cox for his players not perfoming, I dunno.

  14. Mr. Swings,
    The simple point is: Cox had no players left. They were all hurt.

    Someone was asserting that he should’ve won 85 games without his pitching staff or regular players.

    I’m saying that if Cox had won 85 games by trotting out the Gregor Blancos & Jorge Campillos of the world, it would’ve been a magic trick.

  15. 18—All ububba’s saying is that the 2008 Braves were not an 85-win team, regardless of what the third-order Pythagorean record may suggest.

    EDIT: I see ububba can defend himself. :)

  16. You can’t blame last year on Cox. He had nothing to do with Smoltz, Glavine, Hudson, Soriano, Moylan, and Hampton being injured most of the year. He’s only partially responsible for this year. Unfortunately that part may be the difference between winning the wild card and staying home.

  17. So, now Kelly is behind Infante on the depth chart against RHP. Even after his awesome defensive performance last night.

  18. Gregor Blanco and Jorge Campillo actually had fairly decent seasons last year. I still don’t understand why folks give Cox a pass on roster construction where he obviously has input and especially reliever injuries. Moylan’s injury had something to do with his overuse in the ’07 campaign. Soriano had experienced arm problems for awhile before he was shut down.
    Gonzalez was run into the ground despite a career full of arm troubles.

  19. From WFAN, Mike Francesa’s weekly spot with Met manager Jerry Manuel:

    MF: Y’know, that Braves 2B didn’t look too interested last night. I mean, he couldn’t be bothered. I couldn’t believe he didn’t get to 2 of those balls in that big inning. And how did they not turn that DP on Pagan? It was tailor-made!

    JM: [Heh-heh] Yeahhhh, a couple of those balls found a way to sneak through, just under his glove [heh-heh].

    Mr. Swings: I’m curious. How was Cox responsible for Hudson’s injury? For Escobar’s? For Chipper’s unending issues? Don’t stop there.

  20. Garret Anderson is going to bat before Adam LaRoche, and that’s final!

    I’d bat Church leadoff and Infante 2nd, but that makes too much sense.

  21. @24

    Whenever a manager does something that makes no sense to we simple minded fans it is probably because they are privy to some information that we don’t have. You can plug this formula in to many situations in life where those in power do (apparently) stupid things.

  22. Are you saying that because there are some injury issues not tied to Cox’ usage pattern of the player involved that all injury issues are completely unrelated to Cox’ use or abuse of said player?

  23. @12


    not wanting to sound like a jerk but who picks up smoltz in a KEEPER LEAGUE???

    i stayed away from chipper like a drunk chick with HIV. point is usually to grab young players, players who can play for 3 or 4 seasons in a row.

  24. I got Chipper in a keeper league a few years ago, cheap, and he’s been awfully productive. The secret is to figure out who’s going to be valuable going ahead, old or young.

  25. i agree mac.

    but it scared me for a second that someone though smoltz had another few years of production left in him….

    got a question for you now though. do you pick chipper in a keeper league if it comes up next season? hes been playing kinda lifeless lately. looks like a zombie too.

  26. Are you saying that because there are some injury issues not tied to Cox’ usage pattern of the player involved that all injury issues are completely unrelated to Cox’ use or abuse of said player?

    I think that’s what he’s saying. Last season the Mets were historically healthy, this season not so much. Injuries just happen.

    Believe me, I’m all for a change at the helm, but to blame Cox for his players not perfoming, I dunno.

    Well it obviously doesn’t make sense but it’s always a lot easier to change the manager than to change all the players. The Pirates change managers every few years just to throw the fans of the scent.

    I still don’t understand why folks give Cox a pass on roster construction where he obviously has input

    Let me help you understand – it’s because it’s not his job. All managers have input, it’s the GM’s job to make the call. If Frank Wren is deferring to Bobby every time then – guess what – Frank should still get all the criticism because he is not doing his job.

  27. Let’s ditch the hibernation tonight, fellas.

    And as long as they’re playing like their 1962 ancestors, let’s make ’em pay.

  28. Robert, our Braves do not play the game of baseball the right way and it is directly because of the philosophy enacted by Bobby Cox.

    The offense consists of bunching hits and hitting the ball over the fence. Our Braves do not run enough as evidenced by the near dead last stat of 43 stolen bases and they do not play small ball nearly enough.

    Cox is to blame and the evidence is irrefutable.

  29. I’m pretty sure I’ve never seen consecutive games where teams bat around against the same pitcher. A little more understandable here, in the second, than in the fourth.

  30. Who’s the fast guy on the team? He’s on the DL, right?

    Beat the Mets… beat the Mets… Keep it up, fellas.

    Awesome. Here’s our 8-run payback. Early round KO…

  31. So, Robert, what exactly is Cox doing this year for his $3.5M contract?

    Keeping Jurrjens and Hanson out of harm’s way hopefully. That’s priority one. The rotation’s been healthy and effective, so that’s nice. The stuff people complain about – reliever usage, pinch hitters, lineup sequencing – is really just playing at the margins.

    OMG! Parnell is facing the same hitter twice in an inning! Fire Everybody!

  32. Robert, our Braves do not play the game of baseball the right way and it is directly because of the philosophy enacted by Bobby Cox.

    The offense consists of bunching hits and hitting the ball over the fence. Our Braves do not run enough as evidenced by the near dead last stat of 43 stolen bases and they do not play small ball nearly enough.

    Cox is to blame and the evidence is irrefutable.

    Thanks for your input. Bobby should definitely have our slow players steal more and our players that can’t bunt, bunt more. Bunching hits and hitting the ball over the fence never works.

  33. Well there’s no excuse for this. I’m pretty sure Bobby’s to blame for this eight run inning too, I just haven’t figured out how yet.

  34. apparently Bobby is managing the Mets tonight, jk he’s still far and away better than Manuel

    anyways, Jerry is doing his, 8 run lets leave the starter in there, impression

  35. So McCann’s tendency to get to two strikes and just foul off a ton of pitches till he gets a meaty one is one of my favorite things about him.

  36. @44

    I agree with you that Cox has to go but could not disagree more about why. It’s a good thing the Cox Sucks Party is a big tent party.

  37. 8-0 Braves. Game over and Robert, you have not a clue.

    You’ve sold me Coach. This eight running inning is directly traceable to stealing bases and small ball.

  38. The tree’s what? Braches? Leaves? Sap? And which tree are we talking about? There must be a word there that would turn that into a meaningful saying.

  39. What speed is Bobby supposed to utilize to steal more bases, Coach? Should it be Chipper’s or McCann’s, or LaRoche’s and Diaz’s? The only guy that has legitimate speed to steal a lot of bases is McLouth, and the only other guys who might are Infante and Church. This is not a lineup of speed, and a manager would be stupid to be trying to run all the time with these guys. We don’t have Rafael Furcal and Quilvio Veras at the top of the lineup anymore…

  40. Lets think quick before Robot continues his insanity.

    What manager has lost four world series?

    What manager has lost back to back world series?

    What manager has lost five pennants?

    What manager took fourteen straight teams into the postseason and came away with one ring?

    What manager has lost more post season games than any other manager in ML history?

    That’s right ladies and germs…..none other than Bobby Cox.

  41. As I’ve always said, if there’s anything that defines a losing manager it’s a lengthy post season resume.

  42. What other manager has ever won fourteen straight divisions in any sport?

    with that said I like him, but its time to go

  43. Guess he was really lousy to finish first all those times.

    Guess those Brooklyn Dodgers teams of the ’50s were losers, too.

  44. Coach, I want to thank you for supplying Robert with so much material. You’ve enabled him to find The Zone.

  45. Robert, exactly right. Which is why Bobby Cox has a losing record in the post season. Way to agree with me!!!!!

  46. @16 Cliff if 3rd order pythag projected the 2008 Braves to be an 85 win team….. well then dude you’re better off gutting a chicken and reading the entrails than going through all that math.

  47. Wow, I get home last night and the Braves had given up 8 runs in the fourth. I get home tonight and the Braves have scored 8 runs in the second. Weird.

  48. AHHH but MAc your forgeting your Pellagra symptoms

    The 4 D’s

    and the best one Death

    He would therefore say something stupid because he’s suffering from Dementia. Like “My time in atlanta was filled with empty promises and setbacks. I mean I was never given a chance to regain my HOF form I showed in 2006 and 2007. I mean they sent me down to the minors for god sakes! I only responded with a 4-6 performance down there. I just was given the short end of the stick in Atlanta.”

  49. I’m gonna shut up but before I do, I have a brain fart for the blog.

    What major league team leads all big league teams in stolen bases over the last six years?

    The same team has won a World Series and has made the playoffs five out the previous seven years. Here’s a clue, it’s in the AL and is currently in first place…..again.

  50. @82: Correlation = causation!

    At least you accurately described that thought as a “brain fart.”

  51. Bobby Cox hasn’t exactly made wonderful tactical decisions in many a postseason series. Is this really debatable?

  52. Lonnie Smith getting deked by a rookie with no neck, Bobby’s fault.

    Handing the ball over to Jeff Reardon, who immediately coughs up WS Game 2, Bobby’s fault.

    Mark Wohlers’ hanging slider, Bobby’s fault.

    Sending up Luis Polonia, who hits a line drive right into Paul O’Neill’s glove, Bobby’s fault.

    Getting to a WS without your starting 1B & C, a combo that combined for 78 HRs & 227 RBI the previous season, then losing to the game’s greatest modern dynasty, Bobby’s fault.

    Eric Gregg, Bobby’s fault.

  53. You know Ububba, YOU”VE convinced me. Forget that 3rd order python shit. Fire Cox becuase he’s effed up so much in the past. I should have seen the light years ago.

  54. Right, ububba. The Braves’ postseason failures are a direct result of everyone and everything but Cox.

    And I never said it was entirely his fault. Just that he has made many a postseason tactical error, which he has.

  55. I said this last night but, seriously, Boston had no room for all these homers? Kotch is really a better fit for them? Did they owe us one or something?

  56. WARNING: Hypothetical Situation

    IF the Braves make the playoffs as the wild card, would they face the NL Central winner? If so, then the Braves would face the Cardinals and maybe Smoltz. How weird would it be to face John Smoltz in the playoffs, an arena in which he was so brilliant for us?

  57. I really like the LaRoche trade, and I don’t know what Boston sees in Kotchman compared to LaRoche. Maybe they thought that Kotchman, from St. Petersburg, would be more comfortable in a northern city than LaRoche, an admitted country boy. It can’t be an on-the-field, baseball skills kind of thing.

  58. in 2010: we are going to be really good. i say we offer laroche 2/18, bring up heyward to man right and platoon diaz and church. the interesting part is most definitely going to be the 6 starting pitchers.

  59. You know Randy I was one of those guys going HUH??? when we acquired LaRoche. Wren is a genius.

    Robert, I agree. But they saw what some of us that maybe thought, Kotchman had higher upside since he was younger????? I dunno.

    Ok if I understand the simplest form of the 3rd order pythag correctly by scoring all these runs now we are now working our way to ‘project’ to 105 wins?

  60. My guess is that Boston thought that LaRoche’s transformation into Babe Ruth in the 2nd half of seasons was a fluke more than an actual phenomenon.

  61. lol… why is Acosta on this roster if he’s only getting into games in which the Braves are up by 10+ runs?

  62. Without Acosta what would we do for someone who can always make the game exciting no matter how big the lead? boring.

  63. It’s time to settle some scores and throw at some Mets. I’m sick of seeing Yunel get thrown at.

  64. I think that the thing with Yunel is that:

    1. The book is to pitch him inside;
    2. People don’t like him, so they really don’t care if they hit him.

  65. Though the book is actually incorrect. He murders pitches up and in; his problem is with low pitches. But for some reason, they keep pitching him up.

    BTW, I don’t know if they’ve mentioned this, but Yunel is now the team leader in runs scored, passing Chipper, but McCann passed him in RBI.

  66. @109 – yeah now I think that I read that somewhere.

    We’ve sure tried to trade Yunel a couple of times. Glad we didn’t succeed.

  67. Brandon Jones is hitting .348 over his last 10 games with 3HR. Good to see him showing signs of power again

  68. per DOB

    Good news on Prado:

    Diagnosed with “exertional headaches.” He’ll be treated with anti-inflammatory medication and is day-to-day, pending the elimination of the symptoms.

    Braves think he’ll avoid DL. He’ll rejoin the team in Atlanta.

  69. Jeremy,
    The point is that if any of those weird things beyond his control don’t happen, Cox has at least two titles.

    Somehow nobody calls Tom Lasorda or Sparky Anderson morons. When Mariano Rivera botched a bunt & gave up the bloop single to Arizona, did that suddenly make Torre dumb?

    And exactly which post-season tactical errors are you talking about?

    I’ve never said Cox is blameless for everything. I’m not a fan of bunting with a .300 hitter in the first inning anymore than most folks. But the post-season stuff strikes me as pretty goofy.

  70. Good to hear about Prado. Headaches of that nature are sometimes associated with serious brain abnormalities. Kelly is cleared.

  71. It’s ok to use Sori tonight. The guy needs some a non-save appearance to iron out his problem. He hasn’t been used much recently anyway. I have no problem with Bobby using Sori tonight.

  72. One of my girls gets migraine like headaches when she is really exerting herself especially in hot weather. When I read about Prado’s troubles I thought of that. They can be truly debilitating. I hope Prado gets better.

  73. @136: The strange “benign” things we get in life are unreal sometimes. I have benign fasciculation syndrome–muscles all over my body have been twitching for over six months, primarily in the calves. Comes with all sorts of strange sensations and pains. My neurologist performed an thorough exam and blood tests and says there’s nothing to worry about. The anxiety of thinking you have a major disease was the worst part and early on it was seriously crippling. That is gone for the most part, but some days the annoyance of the syndrome drives me insane.

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