92 thoughts on “Poor Jeffy gets all the blame game thread: July 20, Nats at Braves”

  1. I think it is time to start dumping players. The problem is, who do we have with value that doesn’t fit in a rebuilding plan?

    Texiera, ???

  2. Why does Bobby bench Kelly vs. Left handers? Has he ever looked at Kelly’s R/L splits?

    Also, FWIW, John Lannan is actually a pretty good pitcher.

  3. Lineups:

    W. Harris cf
    P. Lo Duca 1b
    C. Guzman ss
    A. Kearns rf
    R. Belliard 3b
    J. Flores c
    F. Lopez 2b
    R. Langerhans lf
    O. Perez p

    G. Blanco lf
    K. Johnson 2b
    C. Jones 3b
    M. Teixeira 1b
    J. Francoeur rf
    M. Kotsay cf
    B. Lillibridge ss
    C. Miller c
    J. Reyes p

    Well, they have us beat at catcher.

  4. Mac, that’s a beautiful article. I was just thinking about Stan the other day. Truly incredible ballplayer. I definitely think you should feel free to go off-mission for a guy like him.

    Maybe Monte Irvin?

  5. Kelly was clearly bunting, but he almost dragged that into a single. I hate the play, but I like that he was a half-step from being safe.

    Chipper, first pitch pop-up? Come on.

  6. Good to see Jeffy recover from the horrible “ball in the dirt” swing and get a hit.

  7. Are you suggesting Joe Simpson is jerkin it to Frenchys wide stance in the booth?!?

    How dare you, sir!

  8. Did anybody just hear the guy that ordered four beers and a shot of Jager that came through over the radio ?? That was amusing. You know Skip wanted to say something about it.

  9. Bob Carpenter: “Other teams can look it up, and on paper, the Nationals just don’t match up.”

    Don Sutton: “About the only thing that goes well on paper is puppies.”

  10. Another airmailed throw from Frenchy…get it together man.

    Why can’t we get Willie Harris out? He’s become one of my least favorite players for tihs reason.

  11. Sikp Carey on Jeffys throw yesterday: “If he tried to score at the screen he would have been out.”

  12. Oh, bull. The pitch he just rang Kelly up on was outside, and the umpire never gave that call to Jo-Jo. There are two different strike zones out there.

  13. Does Wren really need to watch the FLA and PHI series to know that he needs to sell? I’m not saying a move should already have been made, we have a 11 days, but I’m just saying, it’s abundantly clear to all watching that we are out of it this year.

  14. Jo-Jo’s line today:

    2 1/3 IP, 7 hits, 4 BB, 1 K, 5 runs in so far, bases loaded.

    If he gets a few friendly Grybos, he could be on the hook for up to 8 runs.

  15. I’m so tired of the MLB.TV commercials. Especially since they’re so much louder than the actual game.

  16. And Douglass, who would we trade that could make us substantially better next year?

  17. The Nationals, the 36-60 coming into this series Nationals, are too much for this team.

    Bye Teixeira.

  18. Trade Tex.

    Trade Ohman

    Package whatever other nonessential parts we can get young value in return for.

    This team is hopeless this year, but not for the future. We have some very good pieces for the future, both at the major league and minor league levels, but we’re not there yet. All is not lost, but a lot will be determined by the decisions made in the next calender year. Smoltz, Glavine, Hampton…is it time to retire? That, and we’ll probably be losing Tex. That’s money coming off the books. How will it be spent? Will we take the draft picks, sign him (lol), or get prospects in a trade for Tex? Ohman? How will Heyward, Freeman, Hanson, Lillibridge, Escobar, Shafer, Hernandez, Hanson, etc. develop in the next couple years? These are the kinds of questions that have been on my mind lately and the kind of things I hope Wren is thinking about right now…the future, not the present, which is why I say: Sell.

    I was skeptical earlier in the year of the kind of value we might get in a Tex trade, but with the arms race that seems to be going on this trade season, if we’re smart, I really think we can get at least the kind of value we would get from the draft picks, closer to MLB ready (and we don’t have to pay their signing bonuses). I guess it’s easier said than done, but this is what Wren gets paid to do. I hope he doesn’t fuck it up.

  19. guccioni? this ump needs to be reviewed. that was absurd. not only was it a strike but calling out carlyle for turning his back is beyond ridiculous.

  20. I liked how he pointed to his shirt to show that Bobby spit on him. What a priss.

  21. Just because you’re out of it doesn’t mean you necessarily pull the trigger on Tex. I think you have to determine whether what we can get for him is better than the draft picks we will get if we can’t re-sign him.

  22. I’ve read that.

    That was before we got the shit kicked out of us by the Nationals at home to start off our “second-half epic comeback.” Do we really think we’re about to go to Miami and Philly and beat better teams? Do we really think we have at making the playoffs or resigining Tex? Do we really think that in this year’s market, we can’t get at least the value we’d get from the compensatory picks? I don’t believe any of those things to be true.

  23. People are making too big of deal about the draft picks. He’s either going to Baltimore, NY or LAA. All those teams will be picking at the tail end of the first round. (Baltimore will pick in the top 15 so that pick will be protected and we’ll end up with a supplemental pick.)

  24. As I’ve stated in each of my last two posts, I agree with that statement, ugalaw. As I said, I was skeptical that we could get that kind of value earlier in the year, and if we can’t, I’m ok with holding onto him. But with all the trades going on lately, I really think that a good GM could get that kind of value. (as I pointed out earlier, keep in mind the added bonus of the players already having been acclimated to the professional level, already have professional stats/trends, are presumably closer to MLB ready, and you also don’t have to pay their signing bonuses.)

  25. I don’t think we’re still in it. If someone proposes a Tex trade that makes our team better next year, I’m all for it. But I don’t think it’s gonna happen.

  26. And it’s pretty ironic that this is the same org that just gave up a first rounder for a 43 year old pitcher. Excuse me if I don’t believe that they value draft picks.

  27. I would still rather them sign Tex, but I just don’t now if it is possible, If we lose him, we have to find 2 outfielders and a 1B at the least, that is a lot of FA to sign. We have nothing ready in the minors at any of those positions so if gets tricky.
    If we trade TEx, we really need a starter at one of those spots in return.

  28. I would be all for signing Tex if there was a chance in hell it was gonna happen. There’s not, though. We need to accept that as a given this point (unless there’s been a MAJOR shift in financial direction made by the owners behind closed doors.)

    So then the issue becomes, not “will the deal make us a better team next year?” but will we get more value from the compensatory picks or a trade? That is the decision to weigh. If we can’t get that kind of value? Keep him and take the picks. But as I’ve said several times now, with the trades made by the teams in contention in recent days, I really, truly believe a good GM moves Tex in the next 11 days and doesn’t think twice about it.(and Ohman too for that matter…look at the friggin Fuentes rumors. There’s demand there.) But I’m open to the possibility that I’m wrong.

  29. Corky Miller…what a defensive specialist.

    I swear Corky is the most unappealling player I’ve ever seen. There is nothing at all to like about the guy.

    At least I have no delusions of a comeback win any longer.

    Willie Harris now…

  30. Having Corky leadoff the the bottom of the 4th down 10 to the worst team in baseball? priceless.

  31. washington is showing us that they arent the worst team in baseball, we are….and Corky just earned another two months on this team…Hows Brayan Pena doing?

  32. What every happened to ryanc, who daily told us this team was one game away from running away from this division?

    Hell, we may finish next to last when all’s said and done.

    No one is untouchable.

    If we can’t get a starting position player or even two in a trade for Teixeira #56, Wren needs to hang ’em up.

  33. Well if it wasn’t for Corky Miller’s so-called “good” defesne, it’d be 8-4 now.

    Another two months of playing time for both Corky and Prado now.

  34. Pena is putting up numbers virtually identical to his career line at AAA for the Omaha Royals.

  35. Chief, I feel like the “No one is untouchable” mentality is a bit of an overreaction to our predicament.

    As I’ve said countless times in this thread, I’m all for selling, but as I was saying in post 43, let’s not forget that this team has a lot of top shelf young talent both at the major and minor league levels that, accentuated by the right trades and/or f.a. acquisitions, could form the nucleus of a very talented, balanced team by the end of next year/start of 2010. I think we need to recognize that we’re in a transitional period, but not forget, that all things considered, we have a well stocked, young organization in some ways.

    We still have to trade Tex if we can’t sign him though.

  36. “What every happened to ryanc, who daily told us this team was one game away from running away from this division?”

    nothing “every” happened to me. i’m still here and you’re still being a jerk.
    you never listened to my point once. the only thing you can say is a broken record of, “we stink. this team stinks. we will be 10 games below .500. we stink. we stink. you stink”. your posts got old after the 2nd repeated post and many people on the board, not just me, called you out.

    but, stick to your guns. hopeless negativism is obviously your calling in life. i’m glad it’s not mine. i prefer hallucenogenic positivity, obviously.

    and referring to your claim that i said daily that we were still in this thing was before we lost smoltz, glavine, soriano, and diaz. everyone has received your non-analytical “told-you-so”. you can go on posting something other than juvenile punches, or not. if i were a betting man, i would put my life savings on the latter.

  37. For the past hour, the Nationals’ countless hits have been like a metronome in the background as I blog a symphony of gloom and doom on my keyboard.

  38. You wouldn’t know how supposedly bad the Nationals’ offense is by watching this series.

    Even the game they lost against Hudson on Friday, they scored six runs.

    But I guess a bad Braves team will do that.

  39. Well ryan, your point was wrong, and so was your hope that a 40+ year old Glavine and a journeyman in Diaz would lead us to the promised land.

    If you really thought those two were key pieces to us winning this division, then well maybe pick another hobby.

    How could you have been this wrong about a team obviously so bad. That’s not I told you so, but good god man.

  40. Chief,

    Shut up. Seriously. No one wants to hear the “I told you so” garbage you’re spewing here. I’m a very optimistic person, and even after this shellacking, I still have optimism.

    If you enjoy nailing optimistic people when they’re wrong, simply because they were optimistic and positive, then you must be one of the most unlikeable people in history. Leave the guy alone, and you can go back to filling up this forum with your “nanner nanner boo-boo” and “I told you so” posts. I, and I’m probably not the only one, just pass over them at this point.

  41. Optimists: The season is lost. Our finances are too meager to resign Tex. We should probably sell.

    Nocahoma-ists: All is not lost. We have McCann, Hudson, JJ and Co. on the MLB team, and Heyward and Co. waiting in the wings. A nice young nucleus for the future if you will. With the right trade here, and the right signing there, I like our chances in the future.

    Can’t we all just get along? (A bit tongue in cheek coming from one of the most combative people here.)

  42. It’s clear now the team is bad but it wasn’t always. And as bad and lifeless as they look now, things could look different next year. But watching Booby manage this team wears on a person.

    The team is probably not as bad as they have been playing but they are clearly much, much worse than the front office continues to believe. It wasn’t unreasonable to think the team was close to being pretty good and I’m not sure it isn’t still.

    Trading Teixera just to trade him is pointless. You make trades to improve the team; if such a trade is out there, make it. But there is no sense just doing things to say you are “cleaning house.” In a way, though, I think trading Teixera would take a lot of pressure off the team. All year, they have been playing not to lose rather than playing to win. If you trade Teixera, maybe the pressure comes off. Not that I think they have a snowball’s chance in hell of making the playoffs but this team shouldn’t be this bad.

  43. Who said anything about Trading Tex just to trade him? Every argument for trading him that I and others have made has said that you have to weigh the value of a potential trade against the value of the compensatory picks we would receive if we kept him. Complimentary to that is that any trade offered by another team would also have to take this into consideration in trying to pry him away from us. It goes both ways. If we can’t get that kind of value, then I agree with keeping him – for the picks, not because I believe we have a chance to resign him. But look around, there are major market teams poised to contend all over the place, and many of them are aggressively buying for the stretch run. Thus far we’ve seen mostly pitching changing hands, but there are also teams (LAA for one.) that are eyeing bats, teams that would feel confident in their ability to resign Tex after the season ends (or take their chances with the draft picks themselves…it’s not just a rental for them either).

    It really isn’t out of the realm of possibility that we could get superior value, mlb ready sooner, for cheaper than what we would get in the draft.

    The jury is still out on Wren (the Renteria trade was great, Infante has worked out as well…but still…), but he really has an opportunity to do something here that could really help the future of the franchise, in my opinion. I just hope he’s viewing it that way. Most of the public signals being sent seem to lead me to believe that the front office is still in limbo. Maybe these embarasing performances will be just the kind of clarity they need to spring into action.

  44. Blind homerism based in nothing is just as annoying as my and others negativity, if not more so, especially when there is literally nothing to be positive about within this season and team except for the showing of Jurrjens and McCann and Chipper although Jurrjens has tailed off.

    I don’t see myself as being I told you so, but it was painfully and sadly obvious that this team was going nowhere early on.

    The team and franchise needs to be rebuilt, refocused and re-tooled and all salable products (with a return in young talent(needs to be expunged. The team really ISN’T close to contending. It’s closer to finishing last than it is winning the division.

    I know most of you love him, but I would even trade Hudson. He’s 33 years old and to me, he’s in decline, or at a minimum, not a piece to build around, long term.

  45. this “team” can shitcan everyone or everyone not named Jones or McCann and it will suit me just fine.

  46. Just becaue Jurrjens had a bad start yesterday doesn’t mean he’s tailed off. He hasn’t at all thus far. He was dominant at times leading up to the break.

  47. what a terrible game–an idiot umpire, a blow out by the Nationals, and a bunch of bickering on the board

    a silver lining–maybe the two losses to the Nats will end any ideas of trading for Nady or others–I don’t know if it’s better to sell Tex or hold him, but my big fear is a desperation trade of quality prospects

  48. Agreed re: trading quality prospects for this year, Frank. I’m glad at least that nobody is lobbying for that.

  49. Chief,

    The I-told-you-so sentiment comes in the form of the “Where’s ryan c now?” questions. You’ve done it more than once. There’s no other way to read those childish call-outs.

    The weirdest thing about it is that ryan c has been around the entire time. He posts as frequently as he always has. Further evidence of his point that you don’t read what he actually said.

  50. is there anybody out there (I mean a real live human being NOT another corporation) interested in buying this team? I’m not sure the Braves will go anywhere without a real live [human] owner. Corporations are too easy to satisfy.

  51. so by then we’ll have TP managing, Dan Kolb as pitching coach, and Big Lots Wickman for strength and conditioning.

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