ESPN – Braves vs. Reds Box Score, August 22 2007 – MLB
Oh, what’s the point?
The Braves led 1-0 after Brian McCann’s solo homer in the fourth, but again had failed to take advantage of opportunities. Cormier had been perfect through three, but then allowed solo homers to each of the first two batters in the fourth. In the fifth, Chipper hit a ball that scraped the wall in left, with two on and one out, but Willie Harris for some reason couldn’t score from second on the long single, and Teixeira and McCann couldn’t get anyone home.
Then, with runners on first and second, one out, Cormier gave up a hit to Arroyo — opposing pitchers-as-hitters have killed the Braves this year — and Harris screwed up again, throwing the ball away and letting a second run score. Cormier got hung with a loss that again wasn’t entirely his fault.
The Braves outhit the Reds 9-7 and drew twice as many walks, four to two. No good. Renteria returned to the lineup tonight, but reinjured his ankle on a swing in his first AB and had to leave for Escobar. This really sucks.
Ugh.
The baserunning blunder was inexcusable, but I don’t blame Harris for that throw. It was right on the money, but McCann tried to apply the tag before he had possession of the ball. He probably wouldn’t have gotten the runner anyway, but he should have handled that throw.
This really hurts.
This is the first time the Braves have lost where I didn’t feel the immediate need to check the Mets score. That realization really depresses me.
Agreed #2. McCann definitely should have caught the ball, which, for the time being, would have prevented the 4th run from scoring. Of course, that didn’t really matter in the end.
Unless we make the wildcard or go on some amazing win streak the season is over. And even if we make the playoffs I don’t like our chances against anyone other than the mets.
Padres win/Mets lose.
3 back of the Padres in the loss column.
Careful, Land. The sunshine gang is prowling and they don’t like people saying things like that.
They’ve also obviously been watching a different team since April, b/c this one ain’t doing anything.
As for those saying that Tex should have swung at anything close, I don’t agree when that ball was clearly about a foot off the plate. I don’t know if he could have even reached it.
I just realized that a lot of our success next year will fall on the shoulders of Mike Hampton. We can’t get rid of him before next year and he’s gonna pitch one way or another. If he’s terrible, it will be like having a four man rotation.
I don’t claim to be part of the Sunshine Gang, but… well, the wild card isn’t fully out of reach yet. I don’t claim to support that the Braves will be able to reach it in this condition, but I haven’t totally given up.
Rob,
We have a two-man rotation right now. Having Hampton can only make us better. Not much better, but better.
Well, I am now officially in my “Downbeat” mode on the Braves. they’ll probably drop the next two against Cincy, then reel off 5 in a row to get me back to my “Upbeat” mode, only to lose a gut-wrenching game in the Fla. finale.
I feel like M. Corleone – Just when I think I’m out of it, they pull me back in.
Then they toss my hopes into the woodchipper.
I just to make everyone aware that I intend every post as a personal affront to everyone who doesn’t like me.
Seat Painter,
I was once like you, but not anymore. 😛
I watch sports for enjoyment, not misery.
If I felt the need to stay down on my team, I’d find something better to do with my time.
Though it’s hard to believe in this pitching staff, I’m not giving up hope. I’ve seen too many weird things happen in baseball. To hell with the odds.
What I don’t get… really, I don’t get it… is how the Braves keep getting beaten by bad bullpens. And in this case, I’m not talking about Yates & Co., I’m talking about the other teams’.
Also, Alex and I probably won’t team up to kidnap Mike Hampton and force him to sign an agreement voiding the remainder of his contract. But you can’t be certain of this.
Folks this all Steve Phillips fault. Ever since he predicted us to win the East we have stunk.
face it we all knew that it was gonna take something special for the braves to pull out a post season spot this year. blaming hampton for the teams woes is like blaming him for the color of the sky…he has no control over either. the braves just don’t have the killer instinct this year or all the tools, but they are still my team win or lose.
Last year we had several times where we looked like we may get in the playoff race, but we failed to take advantage of opportunities due mostly to a horrible bullpen. This year, it seems like we get our chance and either a starter besides Hudson or Smoltz lets us down, or our hitting goes south (even though we can light up the scoreboard at times.
Mac, a question for you. Would there be an advantage in seperating Smoltz and Hudson by at least one game? The way it is now, when our 1/2 starters pitch, the bullpen gets a little rest. Usually after this, our 3/4/5 starters pitch and the bullpen gets zapped. Spreading out our only two starters that can consistently go deep seems like it would give our bullpen some help. I think I’d rather have someone like Moylan pitching on day 2, 4 and maybe 5 than on days 3, 4, and possibly 5. Any thoughts?
I would separate them, but that would require sitting Hudson for a day and we can’t really afford that. I was already thinking that maybe he should start pitching every fourth day as it was.
Oh, and if you missed it, the Rangers’ little outburst tonight was an AL record and “modern” record; the only other major league team to score 30 or more runs in a game was the Cubs, in 1897. And the Orioles started the game with a 3-0 lead. Ouch.
Somehow it’s not surprising that Rob Bell was involved.
Salty was 4-6 with 2 homers and seven batted in from the eighth spot. Not bad.
I also like to see the old three-inning save make an appearance.
Preach on, ububba. I’m with you.
Each one of these close losses that should have been won are increasingly frustrating.
Cold, hard logic and projection is pretty scary. That’s why we get angry, I supppose. But only two games back and a golden opportunity is presenting itself. Hamels is out for Philly, which is like us losing Hudson. Young is out for San Diego, so their pitching staff takes a bit of a hit.
The Braves can do this. Once in a while, James, Carlyle and even Cormier have to turn in a few good starts. Plus, one of these days, Reyes will get his first major league victory. He has to. He’s no Terry Felton.
As much as I detest the concept, the WC is made for teams like us. Might as well commit to it.
BTW, Joba Chamberlain is scary good. He just struck out the side again, closing out Vladimir on 3 pitches. We’re talking 100-MPH heat & a slider that’s just sick. He still hasn’t given up a run.
You can’t blame the pitching tonight. Giving up 4 in that ballpark with Lance Cormier pitching. . . you can’t ask for more. This team just does enough to lose. Tonight it was poor defense and poor base-running that cost us runs. And the offense goes into hibernation in the late innings. Bleh.
There’s always tomorrow. But the tomorrow’s are running out. Lets see if they can put something together. You never know what can happen with this wacky game. I’m not giving up.
I normally don’t like it when players argue balls and strikes, but when Tex argued that pitch WAY outside (I just saw the highlights tonight), it at least shows me that this team has some passion.
I can cope with losing. I can’t cope with a team that plays without heart or a passion for the game.
This is a .500 team but then so really are the other wild card contenders. The Braves lost James but the Phillies lost Hamels and the Padres Young who are both better and more important pitchers than Chucky. So there’s still a chance. But each day that goes off the calendar and the Braves are still 1-2 games back of a playoff spot, that chance gets smaller. They’re going to have to make a move sometime. This road trip would have seemed like the perfect time. Maybe it still will be. Hey at least they’re not the Falcons.
Years from now when we are reliving the glory days of the 90s much like the Reds do with the Big Red Machine and so forth, we will realize that the Mike Hampton contract cast this franchise into a long era of mediocrity.
On Harris and his baserunning, yes he got deked. However, with NO outs, he had the opportunity to tag up and move to third on the out. I have seen way more people misplay that the other way (play it half way and get nothing out of it), than I have by only getting 1 bse instead of 2. With NO outs, he could still score from third on a double play or on a fly ball or single ground out for 2 times.
I think it was the right move.
@ 34, the mediocrity has been primarily induced by the sudden payroll budget cut by Time Warner. Yes, without the looming “out years” of Hampton’s contract that were so large, there could have been moves made; however, it was not as large relative to payroll when the trade went down.
AND Scheuerholz, McGuirk, Cox and everybody knew that salary inflation of 5 to 10% a year was going on. NO WAY they could have seen a 15 to 20% cut coming into the equation. Their payroll projection for this year as of 2002 was probably 105 milllion. IF that course had stayed through, we would have sustained a pretty good streak.
Installment 4, FREE PHIL STOCKMAN.
Our story today agin revolves around the peripatetic journeys of an English lad in the American past time of baseball.
Our English lad pitched an inning last night for Mississippi. He had one walk, no hits, one strikeout, and no runs given up.
FREE PHIL STOCKMAN
I missed most of the game and thread last night so I’m relying on Mac’s recap. Harris’s failure to score on a ball Chipper hits to the wall sounds like a big blunder. So much for Willie and his blazing speed–can’t score from second on a ball hit to the wall and he’s been caught stealing 11 times. Harris is–baserunning notwithstanding–having a good season but I could use more Diaz and less Harris.
Anyone else see that Mazzone’s O’s gave up 30 runs yesterday?
The Braves continue to sail happily along on the good ship USS Tread Water.
Win one, lose one, win one, lose one, win one, lose one, win two, lose two, win one, lose one, win two, lose three, win two, lose two…..
Don’t worry, now it’s time for the Braves to win three in a row! Or at worst, lose today and then win two in a row when Smoltz and Hudson start.
8 days until the trade deadline to be eligible for postseason. I hope JS can pull off some magic and find us a starting pitcher who can go 5-6 innings and give up 4 runs or less.
Wow a Leo-coached staff gets tagged for 30 runs. I guess Bevis and Butthead are right – you can’t polish a turd.
Good Morning All, I guess…
I’ve been on vacation (thank God) and have avoided much of the last 5 or 6 games. So, I come in here this morning in a great mood from vacation, but get slapped upside the head with the realization that the Braves are just mediocre. I hate saying that, but until proved otherwise that is what we have. Where is the fire? I don’t get it. We get all pumped and pound the Mets and then let the Reds beat us up. I agree that technically the wild card is not out of reach, but unless something changes fast it doesn’t look likely.
Thanks for that first line Dan, I needed a little comic relief. I was gonna write something about signing Boomer Wells, but in reality would that do any good?
Stupid treading water…….
“Harris screwed up again by throwing the ball away”
uh… do you even watch the games Mac? That throw was right on the mark. If anything McCann screwed up by letting the ball slip by since he was more preoccupied with the runner and blocking home plate.
I got angry during the game and posted a lot of stuff about the lineup – Diaz not playing enough, KJ batting 8th, etc. – but in reality the batting order would not make much of a difference. The real problem for the Braves this season has been pitching, as it has been for several years now. We all know this. They have a good-to-very good lineup and will again next year. But oh how they need a 3rd quality starter and an innings eater at the bottom of the rotation.
“If wishes and buts, …”
If the Rangers had not waited so long to agree to the trade, or if our baby Brave pitcher hadn’t had a sore arm, Bronson Arroyo could have been pitching for the Braves last night.
Carlos Gomez on this past MLB draft:
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/the-draftys-the-2007-mlb-draft-awards/
I love this guy. Sings the praises of Jason Heyward and Vanderbilt—could I ask for more?
Bronson Arroyo is not the answer…He was getting pounded before he shut down the Braves yet again. It wasn’t the pitching tonite…it’s seems an average pitcher can shut down the Braves great offense. Jamie Moyer did it…Bronson has done it twice.
For all the talk about that 3rd strike…bases loaded with one out and no runs, really killed this team. Tex or McCann could not get one run in. But we should all be use to the untimely hitting and terrible pitching by now. Over the past few games we are getting no clutch late inning hitting. I don’t see how Carlyle lasts 4 innings tonite.
is no one, besides myself, still upset with the way Bobby managed that game. You still cant blame Cormier, 3ER in 5IP in that park allows us to stay in the game. Thats all you can ask for. If Bobby wasnt going to let Diaz hit in Cormier’s spot I would have liked to see him go one more inning. I thought he threw the ball well last night, only had two balls hit hard off him all night.
Renty MIGHT have to go on another DL trip
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070822&content_id=2163981&vkey=news_atl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl
Why did the Braves rush Renty back? I don’t get that at all…It’s not like the offense was struggling especially against the Reds? All that did last night was screw up the line-up.
CSG,
Bobby has made so many “questionable” moves this year, sort of tired of talking about them. However, I think he was afraid Cormier was ready for a severe meltdown…so he got him out.
Bronson Arroyo is not the COMPLETE answer, and it wasn’t the pitching last night. We do, however, need someone besides John and Tim to pitch more than three innings.
Cormier has done pretty well in his last two starts, and Reyes did okay until Chipper booted that routine grounder/infield hit; but I would be delighted if Arroyo were our number three.
@46,
The lineup is a problem, but not where it is first apparent.
Bobby loads righthanders to the front of the lineup against lefty starters and lefthanders to the front against righty starters. I know fornt of the order guys get more plate appearances and that the higher OBP you have at the top the more runs you will score (particularly early as this team needs them).
BUT, you are setting your lineup to be handled by mediocre relief pitching just on platoon splits. AND the platoons employed only magnify this by causing some batters to get almost no appearances against the “same side” pithcers.
Really, probably Chipper should move up to w (I know there is some kind of macho thing there, but Chipper is smart enough to understand this) and then put the second “same hander” third (great with Rent or Diaz or KJ), then Tex, and then let McCann split the righties at the back.
BUT, lineup is not the main problem. 3, 4, & 5 are with bullpen a close second.
Chipper should move up to the digit above w, 2.
Cormier went into the 8th against the Dbacks – I think he could’ve handled at least one more night anyways. Sometimes you got to save your pen and give them some rest, Acosta did pitch really well last night. Bobby complains about the pen not getting any rest, but he almost always gives our starters a quick hook. Who was the last pitcher Bobby pulled in the 2nd inning in a tied game. He has to see if Reyes can get himself out of early jams, I mean it was 3-3 in the 3rd, thats way to early no matter what
I don’t want start anything here, but I wish that people refrain from making such comments. What Mac provides here is a tremendous resource to Braves fans, and he ought be above petty and mean-spirited sarcasm like this.
JC I’m with you 100%. Thanks Mac!!!!
The Braves really need only one more good starter to be set in the rotation for 2008.
Smoltz, Hudson, other guy, James and Hampton.
Go into 2008 with Hampton as the fifth starter, not the third one like in 2007, and I think the Braves will be just fine.
Dan, would Soriano fit in that slot?
Our pen should still be good enough next year. Acosta can replace Soriano and we get Gonzo back. We do have to get Mahay to sign and maybe call up Ring and Devine to do that
Soriano has one good pitch!
Not to be optimistic or anything, but Cormier has looked fine in his past two starts. 4 hits and one walk over 5 innings is fine by my book, and his line would look a lot better w/o the shoddy defense behind him and little-league park making a double and a flyball into HRs.
Dan,
i agree even if i’m leary on listing hampton as a 5th. as much as i want him to pitch for us, i refuse to get my hopes up for the bagillionth time. there has to be someone out there we can pick up to fill the 3rd spot, but i’m sure it will cost us renty.
csg,
Soriano as a starter seems like a bad idea, not only does he have one pitch but his injury history makes me doubtful that he’d hold up for very long. we need to go out and find a guy who is a solid starter, not another scab.
Random thoughts:
– Cormier pitched as well as you can expect from a 5th starter caliber pitcher in that stadium. I might have left him in for another inning instead of pinchhitting Woodward for him (why does he still have a roster spot??).
– The bullpen did a great job for once. I’d like to see more of Acosta.
– Willie Harris has to score from second on a ball that was a few feet from the top of the wall from being a homerun. The Braves still might have lost but that run had to come home. Even Lonnie Smith would have scored there.
– The error on Harris’ throw as a group effort by McCann trying to tag too fast and Cormier kicking it into the camera well. There was nothing at all wrong with the throw itself. If either Brian or Lance had played it better, that would have saved a run.
– I wonder if losing Renteria on the first pitch he faced distracted the rest of the team. Arroyo certainly wasn’t sharp, throwing more than 30 pitches in the first inning. They should have beat him down.
If Cormier had been healthy all year, and pitching like he has the last two outings, this season might have looked a little different to this point.
This team looks like a team that gets to the point of breaking over the hump and going on a huge run, and then a devastating loss happens, and all the good work is undone and they have to start over again.
Was Harris’ speed what cost him? He’s so fast, Dunn faked him out into thinking he was going to catch it, so he stood on second base waiting to tag up and go to third. If he was slower, he might have just stayed halfway?
Harris’ multiple, rally-killing outs when he gets caught stealing seem to show that speed really does kill.
I dont think Soriano would be good either, but didnt he say that he wanted to be a closer or starter and wouldnt be a setup man next year. Gonzo will most likely be our closer if ready.
Hampton – I hope he can give us 100 innings next year, I doubt it though
Cormier is starting to pitch like a #4-5 pitcher, he is pitching like he did in ST this year. if he can stay healthy I think he could be our #4 or 5 again next year. He’s better than what we’ve seen, just unlucky in his last two starts. We could’ve gotten one more form him last night.
Do we trade Renty for a SP in the offseason or just lose him to FA and get our picks?
Harris was fooled by Dunn and it just so happens the ball hits the top of the wall and comes right to Dunn, I think Willie knew he could score even if the ball came off the wall. We’ve just been unlucky this year with all the hits by the pitchers and bad breaks, still a little time left. SD just lost Young and the Phils just lost Hamels
Gonzo will most likely be our closer if ready.
I don’t know about this. First of all, I think it’s highly unlikely that he’s ready to start the season. Even if he’s cleared to pitch, I doubt he’ll be in top form. I’m pretty sure Soriano is set to be the closer in 2008.
Stu, you may be right, Soriano looked good at closer and has struggled ever since being taken out of that role. It probably is the best option
however, I still think he needs to work on that slider and change in the offseason
I’m sure as usual we’ll start off next year with closer by committee. After a few months, somebody will assert himself and become the fulltime closer. I’d be surprised if Gonzalez is ready at the start of the season. It’ll probably be a month or two in before he joins the team.
The Braves badly need more starting pitcher. They can’t expect anything from Hampton after the last 2 years and they’ve had poor results developing their own starters from the minors lately. I expect JS to be very active in the starting pitching market in the offseason either for free agents or by trade. Curt Shilling is going to be a free agent. Assuming he’s over the health problems that dogged him this year, that could be a worthwhile 1 year addition with an option year. I suspect he’d rather play for the Braves than the Devil Rays, despite what he was telling reporters a few days ago.
LYRICS
VERSE 1
Four and a half games back and I don’t Te-care-a
You know why we got Mark Teixeira
Got a new Braves jersey that I’m gonna wear-a
And written on the back is Mark Teixeira
The Mets are scared cause their lead’s gonna narr-a
They’re lookin’ over their shoulder at Mark Teixeira
Chorus:
We got Fred McGriff back in ’93
Hampton’s out cause of injury
Schuerholz smiles cause he is happy and Bobby says,
“Let’s go Mark T.”
The National League it just ain’t fair-a
The Atlanta Braves got Mark Teixeira
Chipper and Andruw make a mighty nice pair-a
Let’s make it a trio add Mark Teixeira
A side effect is mild hysteria
The medical reason is Mark Teixeira
Chorus
Bridge:
Scott Thorman stinks and Julio is old
What did Shuerholz do? Must’ve sold his Sooouuulll
Pitchers beware cause he’s gonna scare ya
Throw him a strike now if you dare-a
He could probably steal on Yogi Berra(NOT Yogi Bear-a)
Biggest thing in Georgia since Scarlet O’Hara
If I were a woman I’d probably Marry ya.
And that’s not Gay cause its Mark Teixeira
I wonder if Tex getting pissed off to end the game yesterday might make these guys come out and play today. its time to prvoe something
http://theauburner.com/mark_trial.html
The Braves stink. Read a cartoon, instead.
It would be gay if was anyone else…except maybe Frenchy or Murphy in his hey day, but other than that…to quote Tony Soprano, “Its a little gay”
Wryn,
It takes a lotta temerity (or something else) to make fun of a school that beat you by nearly 4 touchdowns last year.
Most of my Auburn friends tend to avoid the subject.
That song sucks
Fan Forecast shows
Reds 56% Braves 44% – for tonights game
ububba,
37-15 is three touchdowns and a point.
You’re just jealous that our guys (Mark Teixeira tribute duo) get more fanfare than your guy (Chip Caray).
it figures that we have outscored the Reds 23-16 in this series but have lost two of three. Its also good that they have the worst bullpen in baseball. We better have the lead going into the 9th or we wont win
Wryn,
I’m not going to impugn the Auburn Math Department or anything, but a touchdown counts as 6 points, not 7.
ububba,
Our kickers don’t suck. Thanks for trying.
every touchdown I’ve ever seen is 6 points
Wryn,
I’m only offering a little elucidation in the counting department.
One cow, two cows, three cows…field goal!
lame
2+2= 3rd and 6!
I think they’re seven points in Canada.
I think the braves need to score minimum 8 runs to win tonight
“37-15 is three touchdowns and a point.”
But they still lost. Who cares if you count the touchdowns as six or seven points?
I say this as someone who doesn’t care one bit for college football.
I love college football with every single part of my body.
I must admit that the “We only lost by 22!” line is hilarious. And I say this as someone who graduated from and cheers for the Home of Moral Victories.
If “delenda est” is going to have Cormier pitch as well as his last two starts, then keep it up there.
However, surely there is someone better to “delenda est”.
FREE PHIL STOCKMAN
I made it into Keith Law’s chat today (I’m JD):
Goose (Chicago): Speaking of a joke, explain to me how Joe Morgan won the 2nd base spot on the All Time Rawling’s team…um, Ryno just to name one…
Keith Law: (2:42 PM ET ) Um, how about Bill Freaking Mazeroski?
…
JD (Nashville): Joe Morgan won because he stays consistent.
Keith Law: (2:45 PM ET ) Consistently consistent.
Stu – that’s fantastic. Aren’t those guys, technically, colleagues? Ah screw it, Morgan sucks. But at least he’s consistent.
Yeah, they are. I was shocked that it made it on there. I was just trying to give KLaw a chuckle. Mad props to him.
Wryn,
Honestly, there’s nothing about Auburn that makes me jealous. Not that song, not that town, not their teams. Really, nothing.
When I was at UGA, we had Dominique & Herschel, while Auburn had Barkley & Bo. A push perhaps, but jealous about it? No.
When I was at UGA, we had REM, Pylon, The B-52s & several other acts; Auburn had a band called The Rakes (I’m serious). I liked The Rakes, but…
When I was at UGA, we had the entire town of Athens for fun; Auburn people would drive 25 minutes to Macon Rd in Columbus & party at Shakey’s Pizza.
I feel for Auburn, I grew up near there, my mother went to grad school there, some of my best friends are Auburn people, but it’s nothing to be jealous of.