559 thoughts on “Game Thread: Aug. 8, Braves at Mets”

  1. I guess I’m just being a Nervous Pervis (that sounds like Flanders. Stupid Flanders!), but I have a bad feeling about tonight, mainly because of El Duque. The Braves have struggled against him in the past. And I’m not sure about Smoltz, given his last performance.

    Hey, wait. I know what I sound like: a Mets fan!


  2. Barry seemed almost human when he thanked his dad (even though he completely ignored his son — douche). But I don’t like how completely indifferent I was about the HR. I don’t think I was completely outraged, even though I can’t stand the guy, just because I knew it was going to happen. But I’m sad that it wasn’t something that I was excited about. I can’t imagine how monumental of an occasion it would have been if the record were broken by a clean (or at least perceived as such) player. I had fallen asleep with my face in my Latin book, and I’m glad I woke up during his at bat to see it – to witness history. But it bothers me that I’m not mad that I didn’t have my son there to watch it with me or something (even if he obviously wouldn’t remember it).

    Let’s get back to baseball…

    Give ’em the heater smoltzie!

  3. When he’s on—and he’s been mostly on this year—El Duque is a bitch. But so was Oliver Perez before last night.

    When El Duque was on the Yanks, I loved seeing his games because he’s such a freak with all his angles & degrees of slowness. He still throws that cartoonish eephus pitch.

    But, if we get the bats cranking a little bit early on, you’ll hear that wonderful nega-vibe murmur rolling through that hideous ballpit tonight.

    I also heard from Mets radio guy Howie Rose that El Duque called Yunel over last night before the game for a little Cuban confab. Lots of notes to compare there.

  4. About tonite’s game….Against Smoltz only two people worry me. Shawn Green and Jose Reyes. For some reason they just batter Smoltzie. I think the Braves can hit El Dookie, if they can batter his “heftier” much younger brother surely they can hit the old man.

  5. Because I was called out in the last thread, here’s my thoughts on the Grammar Police:

    Less pernicious than the Thought Police, less enjoyable than the album “Dream Police.” (Though, like Ububba, as a member of the press, I do like to stick up for proper English.)

    I don’t really mind if people misspell stuff every once in a while, because I’m reading for substance, not for grading. Still, I think it’s worth putting in an effort. Especially on the internet, I think you’re judged for the way you appear.

  6. AAR — since day 1 of email for me i’ve never been much for capitalization or punctuation (using … for almost any type of punctuation). and yet i’m in academia, get on my wife’s nerves all the time by “suggesting” correct grammar, etc. i think it must be that i’m lazy about it, but also i think it’s because i’ve always viewed the internet (especially unofficial emails, message boards, etc) as a very casual form of communication… even if i’d probably use the subjunctive correctly if the occasion were to arise (zing)…

  7. Thank goodness tomorrow’s game is in Shea, not Atlanta. It’s unbelievably hot this afternoon in Dixie.

  8. AAR,

    You liked “The Dream Police”?

    I had that 8-track, but that’s when I quit Cheap Trick. Everything before that one, though, was great.

  9. I wish I could cut & paste it into Braves Journal because the picture is awesome, but a buddy of mine just emailed me a picture of of two dogs ripping apart a Michael Vick jersey.

    If only the bastard was IN the jersey when they were doing this.

  10. I don’t incorrect grammar or spelling on the internet, as long as its not text speak, I can let it slide.

  11. Oops, I don’t mind incorrect spelling or grammar on the internet, is what I meant. Sorry officer.

  12. Don’t know if this has been posted already, but Rob Neyer drops some numbers on who eventually might surpass Bonds…

    Andruw comes in at number 5 on the list. And it just struck me again that Ryan Howard is already 27. I keep thinking that he’s 23 or so…


  13. Wryn,

    Here in DC it’s 100 degrees, feels like 106, but humidity at 37% I hope those boys working on the new stadium have a hose tied to their mouth.

  14. To me the home run king will always be Sadaharu Oh. :)

    This thought makes it much easier to handle the Barry crap!!!

  15. 23. Yeah it was a real shame about Howard. This was a guy who was absolutely tearing it up in AAA, and yet the Philies in their finite wisdom decided to go out and acquire Jim Thome. I never understood that move. I believe that Howard even hit 50 home runs in a full season in the minors. For those who don’t know that is almost unheard of for a young prospect.

  16. Kenny,

    That’s why the Phillies are the Phillies.

    Whatever AJ does as far as career HR records it will not be in a Braves uniform. Sadly.

  17. Barry Bonds is hated? Wow…I mean I think people may have reservations about his record, but I don’t think he is hated. As far as players, Cobb was absolutely more hated.

  18. Actually, in fairness, I’ve never heard the whole album of Dream Police, and I have no problem believing that it was a bit overblown — I sacrificed musical accuracy to the pun, in the above post. All I’ve really heard is the song “Dream Police,” and it’s kind of ridiculous–sort of like if Steve Miller had smoked weed with Don Henley and Enya. But, generally, I like ridiculously hook-heavy power pop, and I really, really liked “If It Takes a Lifetime” from their album last year, Rockford.

  19. Tony,
    Bonds is most definately hated. And it goes far beyond the fact that he took performance enhancers and broke the record. He is an a$$hole in every sense of the word – to the media, to his teamates, and to baseball fans.

  20. Yep if you’ve read this blog for very long at all, you would be able to say that Barry is hated, loathed, and despised. It has been mentioned every day for months.

  21. AAR,
    I was kinda kidding; I’ll always like Cheap Trick, but that was their first bad move in my book.

    Saw them in in Columbus, Ga., in 1977 opening for Foreigner. Next time I saw them was 1999 at Roseland in NYC. Guided By Voices opened that show.

    They were great both times.

  22. I had a thought this morning when I found out some kid from NY had caught the Bonds Ball.

    He ought to offer to return it to Barry for nothing when he comes clean on his steroid use. Maybe even demand he submit to a polygraph. That is what Barry deserves. And we would get what we deserve, some answers.

  23. Joshua,

    How do you know he is an asshole to his teammates? to his fans in San Francisco? And to all the media? I think you maybe taking a bit too far…Hell Curt Schilling, Roger Clemens, Jeff Kent, etc. are just as disliked if not more. You would be surprise. Bonds gets a lot of respect from players b/c THEY know about everybody was taking that junk…so he is not as hated as you think he is.

  24. Tony,

    I lived in Northern CA for 12 years and know people who write for the Chronicle and other publications. Bonds is definitely an asshole to the press. The fact that he refuses to travel with the other teammates tells me he’s an asshole to teammates, but I can’t say for sure since I’ve never played for the Giants.

  25. For his next trick, Tony will challenge the commonly held conception that the earth revolves around the sun.

    Upon being conclusively proven, Tony will reply:

    “But have you ever been on the sun?”

  26. Tony, I really wonder where you have been if you don’t think think people hate–or at least have a strong antipathy toward–Bonds. I guess it depends on your definition of hate, but it goes way beyond the issues with the record. They probably don’t hate him like Osama bin Laden, but there is a lot of animosity toward him.

    Ty Cobb was hated within baseball by the players because he spiked them and was a real nasty player. I don’t think he was especially hated by fans; his virulent racism wouldn’t have created too much controversy in those days. My impression is that Bonds is not a very good teammate, but it seems to depend on the circumstances. I don’t think it would be a good idea for a teammate to cross Bonds.

  27. I hate Barry Bonds, which is part of why I haven’t talked about him and changed his name to “The Sloth” during the late Giants series.

  28. Thanks for the link ububba. That was a great interview.

    Also, a word of warning for all. Tony likes to disagree. It’s what he does. Let it be, your day will be much better for it.

  29. Marc,

    You hit it…I think the word hate is too strong. I will hate you if you messed with my family, but then I would probably just kill you. My point is he maybe disliked by a lot of people, but for it to come to a point of hatred I just don’t see it.


    I’ve been in athletics too long, been on too many teams and I know how things go…especially with teammates.

    With the press, the St Louis press corp will tell you Mark McGwire was an asshole, but you don’t hear people saying they hate him.

    I don’t have blinders on, I just don’t see things as simplistic as a lot of you seem to see them.

  30. I find hate to be a pretty strong concept too. As much as Bonds is such a jerk, I can’t find myself to HATE him. It’s more of a “dislike” wtih me. My hatred is reserved for people like Osama bin Laden.

  31. Cobb was easily the bigger asshole. To the best of my knowledge, Bonds never killed a guy.

    But obviously, today’s culture spreads Bonds’ sins farther and wider…so Bonds has got to be more hated.

  32. I wasn’t too surprised to learn that a Mets fan got the Bonds ball. After the Met fans response to Mac’s interview yesterday, I figure if one of those nasties was anywhere in the Giants ballpark he’d manage to come out of the scrum with the ball.

  33. I don’t hate anyone, though that doesn’t mean I like everyone or that I consider everyone a valuable contributor to society.

    And I agree with noah @48 with respect to the Cobb-Bonds debate.

  34. To continue the Tony pile on:

    One of my significant memories of a kid was going to see the Braves in Pittsburgh in like… 1992 or so. Other than the game, I can remember my dad getting in conversations with at least 3 people who HATED Bonds and he was on their own team. I just remember another fan, a vendor at the team store, and a few others.

    So yeah, it’s pretty much universal. Well, at least national.

  35. Cobb stabbed a black elevator operator for “being uppity.”

    Al Stump also said Cobb killed a would-be mugger, chasing him down and slashing him to death with a knife.

    Barry Bonds also never went into the stands after a disabled fan.

  36. Thanks Hate King–The Hard Ball Times piece is pretty interesting. While I was down on the trade at first, the real key (not really covered from the Atlanta side in the article) is what the Braves still have left in the system. The Braves may miss these players as much as they have missed Marte. That said, I would feel a good bit better if Kala were a stronger prospect at 1B….

  37. “Beating up a handless heckler is pretty awesome AND hilarious in my book”

    Cobb even got off a wisecrack. The crowd was begging him to stop and pointed out that he was disabled. Cobb said, “I don’t care if he didn’t have feet!”

  38. The Bonds thing is getting old. He broke the record–get over it and move on. I don’t like him but I don’t wish anything bad to happen to him personally; I just frankly don’t care anymore. I’m glad he hit the home run so we can talk about the pennant races–the Giants are irrelevant to that. I’m glad the Nats won the game anyway.

  39. In summary, Cobb was a thoroughly unpleasant individual, and that he apparently never actually killed anyone can be chalked up more to chance than anything. He was also an amazing ballplayer, perhaps the most amazing there ever was. Think of a combination of, say, Ichiro, Rickey Henderson, Barry Bonds, and Dave Winfield. He was big, strong, fast, and nasty, and won eleven batting titles, a Triple Crown, and the first MVP Award — the only one he won only because they wouldn’t give one to prior recipients.

  40. joshtothemaxx…

    LOL…you are kidding right? That’s your story? We are talking 15 years ago…and 3 fans?? You can do better than that. I’m not going to be too harsh on you, just come with something a little stronger than that.

  41. BTW, any of you that work in DC and take the Red Line and want to get home in time for the game–there are significant delays on the line due to a “suspicious” package.

  42. The only bad part of that article when I read it earlier, we don’t know AROD’s response.

  43. Marc, how significant are the delays?

    Thanks for the heads up though. That’s not what I needed to end my day.

  44. Ok guys, I somewhat feel like I’m trying to explain myself to 5th graders (no offense to anyone, because I find everyone here to be intelligent), but do I really have to carefully plan out what I’m trying to say so as not to cause a stir. You take my point too literally. If I ask who is more hated, I mean who is more disliked or whatever you want to call it (I don’t want to have to bust out a thesaurus so as not to offend anyone). I don’t necessarily HATE anyone myself.

  45. Gettin’ ready to head out to Shea. First game attended this year. Have gotten about zero work done today in anticipation…. Go Braves.

  46. You’re a hater Tony. Pure and simple. I was just giving ONE damn example from my own personal redneck Virginia life. Holy shit. /ignore.

  47. Joshua,

    I always poke around with semantics when I hear the word “hate”. ;) I do believe that the word has lost its true meaning in today’s society.

  48. I think Cobb was a far more hateable guy.

    I think Bonds is just a dick. He’s selfish and he routinely tosses everyone else under a bus.

    Cobb was a sociopathic loon who probably should have spent his life in jail.

    Had people been confronted with just how batshit crazy Cobb was, I imagine he’d be more despised. I just don’t believe that most people of that time really knew what he was like.

  49. And I totally agree with Mac on #60.

    Cobb was an amazing player, and he lived up to his nasty reputation.

    Somehow, I respect that more than juicers and coke heads (i.e. Bonds, the ’86 Mets).

  50. Sam said what I was thinking. We all use the word hate, but it is probably more likely meant as one of the following:

    “abhorrence, abomination, anathema, animosity, animus, antagonism, antipathy, aversion, bete noire, black beast*, bother, bugbear*, destination, detestation, disgust, dislike, dog-eye, enmity, execration, frost*, grievance, gripe, hatred, horror, hostility, ill will, irritant, loathing, malevolence, malignity, mislike, nasty look, nuisance, objection, odium, pain, rancor, rankling, repugnance, repulsion, resentment, revenge, revulsion, scorn, shudders, spite, trouble, venom”

  51. WOW! I am just happy I was finally able to start a discussion on this blog. All my comments are usually ignored. LOL.

  52. Joshtothemax,

    Sorry kid.


    Thanks for the clarification.

    Good luck at that dump known as Shea…Jonathan

  53. @ 62 – I’ve seen that alluded to in another Frenchy piece (I think it was ESPN too, maybe the same guy). I could never track down the full story, though.

  54. Sam,

    I agree with you on how meaningless the term hate has become in our society.


    I give you an A for effort on trying to bring statistics in this debate, but don’t you think for one minute that it’s going to slow Tony down.

  55. Speaking of Ty Cobb, two things:

    1) Soundgarden never released a song called “Barry Bonds.” So that’s got to count for something.

    2) Looking at his stats on b-ref, what happened with his walk rate between 1914 and 1915? That 1915 number is a huge aberration. Not that it is a big deal, I am just curious if anyone knows anything about that… To go from a career avg of 67 walks/yr to 118 seems like a serious outlier!

  56. Just got back to my office- I also hate Barry Bonds. I know Giants FANS who hate Barry Bonds. Yes, really. And the stories of him being hated by teammates are well documented. Geez.

    Clearly, someone in here, who shall remain nameless, is trying to provoke a ridiculous debate for the umpteenth day in a row.

  57. 1. The walk rate jump isn’t as big as it looks; he only played in 98 games in 1914 and 156 in 1915. Cobb hit .368 in 1914 with a .466 OBP, .369 and .486 in 1915.

    2. League walks were up a little from 1914 to 1915.

    It’s a jump, but not all that big of one. It’s odder that his walks declined in future seasons.

  58. To Kenny from the previous thread.

    This offseason JS will be more like (but not quite as much) he was in 1992 or 1993 and less like hehas been the last few years. The payroll constraint had them ham strung.

    I wish I knew where the link was, but about 7 days ago McGuirk said that ownership had authorized extra payroll to try to get more revenue (as in, if we get in the playoffs we can generate more money). Also, McGuirk said they were more interested in long term asset value than current net revenue.

    All in all I think Bobby caused some of the Woodward / Sturtze stuff. “I want a ‘veteran presence’ at the position and cheap was the only way to go. We might be able to get “medium” or, for the right player, “expensive”.

    Wilson was just a miss. I sure missed on him. The Yankee fans were right. The shoulder injury had taken away his bat.

    By the way, I think it is Neyer on ESPN that was reporting that Mark Redman is getting called up by the Blue Jays. I think Charles Bronson had a film with that title. “Death Wish”.

  59. Mac,

    Thanks for the clarification. It’s still his highest yearly walk total by 33, but admittedly it’s not as big of a deal as I made it out to be. Mostly I was staging a diversion off the hatred thread, next time I will try to have something more interesting when I do that!

  60. ermoore,

    I don’t know how significant the delays are. They have closed Dupont Circle, Woodley Park and Cleveland Park stations.

  61. Cliff–I agree with your assessment on Wilson. He was a decent signing that just didn’t work out. I also think Redman was an ok gamble given the lack of decent alternatives.

    Whether the blame lies with JS or Cox, I think Woodward and Sturtze were both wasted money. Sturtze was basically out for the season and even if he made it back he wouldn’t be an improvement over Paronto et al. Tony Pena Jr would have been better and cheaper than Woodward.

    I think the two big offseason issues will be Andruw and starting pitching.

  62. Justin Peter Parker,

    You know me so well, not actually, but let’s pretend. But I’m not a person driven by stats. Give you an example: Last night Yunel led off the game with an 8 pitch at-bat. You will not see that in the box score anywhere, but what did it do? It allowed Diaz to get a good look at Perez and we all know what Diaz did next. Everything thing cannot be explain by statistics, we are not computers or robots. And if I wanted to, which I could I could counter your stats with some stats of my own to fit my argument. But….

    Down to my last 30 minutes of another great money making day…

  63. About that Yankees-Blue Jays mess, I do hate Roger Clemens (or excuse me…intensely dislike), but at least the man knows how to drill somebody. The pansy-assed Blue Jays pitchers are throwing behind A-Rod and at his legs and all kinds of crap. But that was a Major League beanball Clemens threw. Rios will be feeling that for about a week.

    Also, I kind of started out on the Blue Jays’ side of things with the whole A-Rod yelling at the infielder thing, but now it’s just getting ridiculous. It was three freaking months ago. Yeesh, give it a rest.

  64. Eh. I actually admire the guy. The level of utter dominance for two decades impresses the bejeebers out of me. Drugs? Let me know when Clay Hensley’s positive test gets 1/100000000th the press that the speculation about Bonds gets. More imporantly, the hatred for him long predates BALCO. The Baaaaaarry chants in Fulton County Stadium in ’91 / ’92 had nothing to do with steroids or hGH. Is he a great guy or an utter arse? I don’t know and try not to make character judgments based on second hand observation. But I do know that after 4 years of federal investigation and three seasons with testing from PEDs, at age 43, he still leads all of the NL in OPS. In my book, that is a tremendous accomplishment.

  65. Down to my last 30 minutes…



    I don’t think Andruw will be a big offseason issue. At least not for the Braves. I think it’s pretty much certain that he’s gone.

  66. Nick, I too liked that old fashioned bean ball by Clemens. Right in the square of the back. Everyone knows what it was for and the message is sent as clear as day.

    Does anyone know whether the weather earlier today in NY will affect tonight’s game.

  67. But I’m not a person driven by stats. Give you an example: Last night Yunel led off the game with an 8 pitch at-bat. You will not see that in the box score anywhere

    Although they do not appear in box scores, it is possible to get stats on pitches faced on Baseball Reference. Here’s the page for Escobar:


    His 3.49 pitches per plate appearance is below the 3.77 league avg. KJ, btw, comes in at 4.12 per PA.

  68. To continue from the last thread, anybody have KJ’s defensive stats for the year?

  69. “Hallelujah”

    Wow I didn’t know the epitome of cranky, snarly and just downright mean knew such words. Wow!

  70. Stu–fair point. A more general phrasing of my point would be “Andruw or his replacement in CF.”

  71. bamadan, that’s a bit deceiving…. He leads in OPS because nobody wants to pitch to him so his OBP is thru the roof because of all the walks. That is a direct result of his added power from STEROIDS. Not that hard to make the link, you can do it.

  72. People really should go after Bonds and not be so damn scared of him. The Braves took care of him quite easily a few weeks ago.

  73. Heading to Shea in a little while. I’ll be wearing my recently purchased Myrtle Beach Pelicans hat so Met fans won’t take out their frustration on me.

  74. By the way, I just read an article over at hardball times about how to fix the Pirates. Well they had a link in the article to the 1992 Sid Bream/Cabrera miracle in the ninth. Watching that never gets old!!!

  75. Lineups are Happening:

    Harris lf
    Johnson 2b
    CJones 3b
    Teixeira 1b
    McCann c
    Francoeur rf
    AJones cf
    Escobar ss
    Smoltz p

    lo duca

  76. Well they had a link in the article to the 1992 Sid Bream/Cabrera miracle in the ninth. Watching that never gets old!!!

    I was watching a YouTube clip today called “Glory Days” or something and it had Skip’s call of both the Otis Nixon catch and the Frankie Cabrera hit. Never get tired of watching those.

    The most striking thing from the video was how skinny the players were in those days, even the power hitters like Gant and Justice.

  77. “Cobb was the man, I don’t care if he was racist and a cripple beater.”

    Come on, man. You can’t be serious.

  78. Stu,

    You know, if you’d like to see “grammar police” capitalized (I think noah’s correct, btw), there is something you can do about it.

    1) Gather all the grammar police you can find.
    2) Form a professional organization.
    3) Trademark the term.
    4) Call upon members to harass editors any time they fail to capitalize it (this shouldn’t be a problem for the Grammar Police).

    Hey, it worked for the Realtors!

  79. sansho1,

    I don’t care nearly enough to do anything close to that.

    Seriously, explain to me the difference between Grammar Police and Thought Police.

    My thinking:

    Both are hypothetical entities overseeing everything falling under the umbrella of, respectively, grammar and thought. You don’t need Bay Area in front of Thought Police in order to allow for the capitalization thereof—why would that be different for Grammar Police?

  80. @ 114

    I AM serious. Those were different days back when Cobb played, and he was head and shoulders better than any other player in his era.

    He was a fierce player with a fierce reputation, he was the same off the field as he was on the field.

    Despite certain things he did, I can respect him being that way and being the best of his era, than i can respect Bonds for cheating his way into the record books.

  81. I think it’s the difference between hypothetical and fictional. If you say “Thought Police”, you are making a specific literary reference that’s entered the lexicon as a capitalized term.

    The only reason I brought it up again (you’re welcome, everyone) is that it reminds me of how much I hate seeing “Realtor”.

  82. But Orwell wasn’t making a specific literary reference when he wrote it. He capitalized it then. You think that was wrong?

    I’m seriously not trying to be argumentative. I’m just trying to wrap my head around it.

    And my apologies to everyone who’s uninterested—most of you, apparently—for my persistence on the topic.

  83. I don’t like stats because I like to believe that I’m always right and that the world is exactly as I perceive it.

  84. Well that’s pretty much the most ignorant thing I ever heard. You’re pretty much saying you like Cobb because he was a racist asshole that beat up the handicapped, but you hate Bonds because he cheated on a GAME. You need to grow up.

  85. It’s not about what Orwell was referencing — he created a world in which the Thought Police was an actual entity. We are referencing him when we use it.

    Now that I think about it, though, you could make the argument that “Grammar Police” is a sort of one-off Orwellian reference. In which case, maybe it would be acceptable to capitalize. Hmmm…..

  86. Here is a thought. There is no “right way” to write or speak. The point of writing/speech is to communicate. If you have communicated your thought adequately then obviously you have accomplished your goal.

  87. I’ve learned my lesson. I’ll never tell someone they spelled “upon” with an “a” ever again. I’ll just leave them to their own devices.

  88. Just did my Metsblog thing. I think it went pretty well, though I continue to have a problem with talking over people. I should be on Around the Horn.

  89. /Sarcastic vitriol

    ‘Here is a thought: There is no “right way” to write or speak. The point of writing/speech is to communicate. If you have communicated your thought adequately, then obviously, you have accomplished your goal.’

    A colon in there would be considered appropriate. Also, when communicating an ‘If – then’ proposition, it is preferred to use a comma (,) to seperate clauses. Also, in this sentence ‘obviously’ would be considered an interjection, and also should be followed by a comma.

  90. sansho,

    I understand your point about referencing Orwell. I’m not being very clear.

    What I’m suggesting is that the Grammar Police are as nonexistent in the real world as the Thought Police, and that in referring to an entity like this, you’re necessarily implying that it’s something official.

    I’ll drop it now, though. I don’t think I’m articulating my thoughts very well, and I’m sure everyone’s tired of reading my attempts at doing so.

  91. I love it when you can look at the lineup card and see how much a game means, Andruw in #7 WOW! I really hopes he takes it as a challenge and rakes!

  92. Here is another thought. The theme of 1984 is that the powerful use linguistic orthodoxy to control. Could we respect that a little and not have any more discussion about whether certain Orwellian constructs should be capitalized?

  93. I cannot believe that Bobby Cox is fielding the exact lineup that I would have picked.

  94. I would still rather see Diaz in the lineup. He still bats .337 against righties, albeit with a little less power.

    Part of the reason I typed this though, was to ensure that Willie goes 5-for-5 to make me look like a dumbass tonight.

  95. The first 5 will all hit lefty… What do you think that does to Dookie’s eephus/curveball?

  96. What is Kelly Johnson’s deal? I swear some nights it’s like he’s channeling LaRoche in that he’s not all there. Like his mind is somewhere else.

  97. I have a feeling Kelly was looking to protect inside after mashing that one into his shin… The ‘book’ says the pitcher should follow up there.

  98. He doesn’t look as sharp as he could, does he? No swings and misses, lots of foul tips.

  99. “‘Doing it, and doing it, and doing it well,’ as they say in today’s contemporary music.”

  100. he did come back (even though we were told not to call it that) and hung around much longer than many may have expected. but…

  101. Haha I’m not really sure.

    Smoltz needs to make hay with the 5-9 spots in this lineup. Quick outs, save some pitches for when 1-4 come back up.

  102. Gameday hates Larry Poncino’s strike zone as much as Smoltz does. Lots of balls that it’s locating over the plate.

  103. Smoltz’s fastball is topping out at 88 mph, I hope the gun is wrong. This ump has a small zone!

  104. they’re going to show HR’s 1 through 756? great.

    one of the reasons i didn’t like him when i was younger was that he didn’t play the game right. why don’t they show clips of when guys would hit shots to left field and he’d just stand there and not even attempt to field them (because he knew it was going out). I loved it when I saw one hit off of the top of the wall. Same sort of thing of watching his shots… saw home stand and watch a looooong single off of the top of the wall. Bet his manager loved that one… run my man. Oh well. Part of the past. Moving on…

  105. Something just ain’t right with Smoltzie. His velocity is way down, he’s leaving a lot of sliders up, and he’s got that weird body language.

  106. was yunel just scratching something in the dirt with his bat? wonder what that was…

  107. Murphy, he always draws a line in the left handed batters box before he hits. Smoltz looks fine other than being pissed off at the ump not giving him anything

  108. I doubt Smoltz’s velocity is down. It’s the Mets’ radar gun. It had Oliver Perez’s fastball at 89-90 MPH yesterday and Carlyle’s at 86 MPH. Simpson and Sciambi were talking about it too.

  109. Escobar always does that–part of his rituals, as is jumping twice as high as he can in the on-deck circle.

  110. is it something in particular that he draws? or just a line? ever heard the rationale behind it? just curious.

  111. De ja vu.

    Let’s try something different this time. Walk Wright and try to get delgado for 2.

  112. I read something about it somewhere, it’s just some random scratching that he does. If he’s hot, he does the same one time and time again, otherwise he switches them up, but ultimately they are nothing other than ritual.

  113. I’m glad the ESPN telecast is blacked out where I live. I don’t want to imagine what they’re saying about Jose Reyes.

  114. gun on FSN must be wrong. They just showed Smoltz as being at 89mph, Chip said they had it at 94

  115. he jumps twice before every AB and draws a straight line with the butt of the bat in LH batters box, just a ritual

  116. Smoltzie keeps working his way out of trouble. Time to give him some run support, boys. He deserves it.

  117. as for the qualitative evaluation, Smoltz’s body language looks good, don’t you think? That heat has to feel good.

  118. That’s what I like to see. Surely Reyes can’t beat us ALL by himself. Now lets get the freakin bats going.

  119. Well we know have quanititive proof: Chipper is better than Tex. His flyout went farther.

  120. No-hitter! No-hitter! No-hitter!

    Can we jinx him, or does it have to come from Mets fans/announcers?

  121. I just got in…evidently El Duque’s slop must be petty good tonight. No hits thru 4.

  122. Well, baby steps, I guess. First one hit, then two in the same inning, then maybe a whole run.

  123. What is fun is using the lag time on gameday between when it says “Ball in play, out(s)” and when it actually tells you what happened, to guess at the outcome. When I saw the message and that the pitch was thigh-high and outside to Andruw, I guessed that would be a good pitch for him to roll over and pull to the shortstop for a double play. Sadly, this time I was right.

  124. Frankly I’m surprised. That ‘lunge out there and slap it to shortstop’ maneuver has always worked in the past…

  125. dan, that assumes he has enough control up there to hit it when he wants to and where he wants to. heh heh. sure hope he gets at least somewhat on track soon. but i like that cox put him 7th in the order.

  126. Anybody else see that a Mets fan caught Bonds’ 756 ball? Just icing on the whole stupid cake.

  127. The ump sure did hesitate calling that last strike on Smoltz . . . what’s up with that?

  128. I think Willie’s got to go here. Duque has a high leg kick and LoDuca doesn’t have the strongest of arms. He gets thrown out you lead off with KJ next inning.

  129. Be really nice to go ahead and chase El Duque and make the Mets bullpen get to work a little early.

  130. I tell you what, I know it’s only early August, but I’ve got some playoff-level adrenaline going here.

  131. finally some hits from us. The way smoltz is pitching I feel pretty good right now.

  132. yes, me too. And with that inning, we have a chance now to get this game…wow, I loved the guts of the our boys that half inning.

    Screw you, Mets.

  133. Now all we need is for Smoltzie to hang a couple more zeros and get to that Met pen and whale away.

  134. Good job by Willie keeping the inning alive. Now Smoltz needs to shut down the heart of the order here and we will be looking real good.

  135. That’s what 90 pitches for Dookie? I think he’ll still come out next inning. I hope Frenchy was taking notes.

  136. It was a good call by Snitker. i noticed Milledge was slow getting to a ball last night hit in a similar way (he was in LC – the ball was hit to RC). Very observant and he used it to good advantage.

  137. I hope Smoltzie can make it another couple innings. And while I’m at it let’s tack another a few more runs. Wickmania’ll make me a little nervous with only a two run lead.

  138. Kelly never stopped! …. I’m still amazed

    Even on the replay, I still don’t understand what happened. He was rounding third when Castillo didn’t even have the ball.

    Way to go Scooter!

  139. Smoltz’s pitch count is getting up there. Hopefully he can get through this inning and at least part of the 7th.

  140. Why didn’t Willie run in to the wall like Milledge? Doesn’t he want to be on Sportscenter?

  141. sorry jj… no room on sportscenter. they’ll replay 756 at least that many times. maybe next month

  142. 90 pitches, I’d like to see him run out there for one more inning. Pitchers spot up 4th here right? I hope we’ll soon find out.

  143. I send Smoltzy back out there, unless it gets to his spot in the order this inning.

  144. I’ve been on vacation for a week, who are our freshest bullpen arms? or are there any?

  145. kruger, that’s what I thought in Smoltz’s last start (hoping to see him go 7), and he got lit up in the seventh. I’m (shudder) making the call to the bullpen.

  146. Go the the pen. Smoltz looks gassed. Dotel should be able to get the bottom part of the order.

  147. We had an off day on Monday so everybody is still relatively fresh. Mahay, Dotel, Soriano, and Moylan pitched last night.

  148. Whoever gets run out there will see the bottom half of the Met lineup.
    In Bobby I trust.

  149. i noticed that the other night too… at wrigley field when glavine got the win, they posted on the scoreboard:

    Tom Glavine * 300 Wins

    why the asterisk for him? heh heh

  150. Guys, diving after you’ve already made the catch is officially known as the Klesko catch.

  151. was that a pitchout sign or was bobby just picking his nose? either way it’s cool — good sign, or old man picking his nose in the dugout

  152. ha! “i think espn should cover every atlanta game until bobby cox gets thrown out again”

  153. Good for Bobby for not waiting too long but I might have gone w/ Moylan here…he’s been so money.

  154. Why does Smoltz struggle so much against Green, Reyes and Delgado? He can get Wright out all day long though.

  155. shite! what was that conversation about? I wish Bobby’d have just lifted him, don’t make him beg to stay.

  156. I would love to have Moylan here, but I think Bobby is saving him–possibly for the 9th….

  157. Why was Mahay nibbling so much with easley? You gotta make him put a ball in play there before facing the top of teh order. That walk was idiotic.

  158. I haven’t learned if I should be afraid of Mahey yet. I guess this will decide it.

  159. Just a lucky POS by Castillo there….but the walk came back to haunt Mahay. No idea why he didn’t pitch to Easley.

  160. at least we didn’t pitch to easley though… this could have been a huge inning if we would have tried that

  161. Is there a city ordinance that states the Mets have to play a shitty song and or sound effect whenever the ball is not in play?

  162. Let’s get an out and get to that Met pen. This will work out just fine.

  163. insect, remember, they’re still the mets and we’re still the braves.

  164. well hopefully we can stop the bleeding now. Pinch hitter +top of the order next inning.

  165. Why Bobby didn’t just go to Moylan when, you know, he needed the groudout, is beyond me.

    Still, Mahay doesn’t walk Easly and we’re fine. And it’s not like he was hit hard, just a couple of bloops.

    A shame, really.

  166. I think Bobby’s downfall here was too much faith.

    He wanted to save Moylan, he really thought Mahay could get out of it… The pitcher’s spot is leading off.

    Now Moylan, our best reliever, is burned after just one batter.

  167. Is Moylan (obviously a PH) leading off? That sucks, would have liked to get another inning out of him, just in case.

  168. I wish Thorman would use those arms to get hit if he isn’t going to get a hit.

  169. KJ seems to have this weird habit of not swinging at fastballs right down the middle of the plate.

  170. geez willie. when was the last time he got a steal? i know that was a great throw… but everyone knew it was coming

  171. That’s why Willie shouldn’t run. He’s a fast base runner but he’s not a smart base runner. He’s taken us out of so many inning with that bullshit. Now we get Wagner next inning if we do nothing here. Idiot.

  172. Willie Harris is an out making machine on the bases. Enough with the steal crap, it’s not an offensive weapon.

  173. why on earth would you let him run in this situation? Let KJ work the count and even if he makes an out, you still have Chipper at bat next with a runner on.

  174. This is depressing–bad baserunning and we have already used Moylan.

    Lets hope for the first half-Soriano…

  175. jjschiller — go back and read the posts from the last 500 times he’s gotten thrown out. it’s implied. even here… there were some who said it 372, 377, 378, etc

  176. “I didn’t hear anyone say ‘No, don’t run’ until after he got thrown out…”

    See: #378

  177. well soriano, let’s see how good ole number 1 straight down the middle of the plate works

  178. I am so done with Soriano. Asshole.

    Great, now we will be back to 4.5 games.

    Dammit. Effing, effing, effing, effing Mets.

  179. Why in God’s name do you throw a pitch like that on 0-2? I’m not sure if Soriano has a tired arm or if he’s just stupid.

  180. This sucks–and it was pretty predictable once Smoltz exited. Moylan is about the only pitcher I trust at this point….

  181. Soirano has pretty much stunk the last 6 weeks. And i’m tired of the he’s tired mantra. Bull. He is stil throwing hard but not locating. Simple as that.

  182. Great. Another of smug ass Chip’s “predictions” comes true. I hate people that are always making predictions. They never remember the shit where they are grievously wrong.

  183. glad i watched all of this… why not? not like i have a final tomorrow morning. oh wait…

  184. Everyone’s ‘done’ with Soriano, at least late in close games, except Bobby. He believes in him. He’s close, he really is. Just gotta get his pitches down.
    SHUT UP.
    I’m done with Bobby. When posters on a message board manage your bullpen better than you, it’s time to go.

  185. In a lot of ways, that decision by Bobby to go with Mahay over Moylan and then using home run Soriano, may have indeed cost us our Playoff shot.

    Instead of a chance to sweep and be 1.5 out, we will now be 4.5 out and if we lose tomorrow, 5.5 (possibly).

    Then, this weekend we have to deal w/ a red hot Phillies team and offense with no Hudson or Smoltz, and could be down as much as 6.5 or worse out.

    The decisions by Cox the past inning may have indeed cost us our season.

    I am so livid right now. This sucks.

  186. is there something in soriano’s contract that says he must appear in the 8th inning of every game?

    i bet he’d be a lot more effective if every batter in the NL didn’t already have 50 at bats against him this year.

  187. What really pisses me off is that we trade a bunch of A grade prospects and it hardly helps the team–why? Because our bullpen cannot be trusted and the back end of our rotation remains good for batting practice….

  188. What does a player have to do to become one of Bobby’s guys? Some players can do no wrong and others cannot buy playing time.

  189. You know, Mets fans were groaning about Alou after yesterday’s game, saying he needed to go. Now he’s their hero…

    Great catch Frenchy! Kept it close, so now we can lose by one run.

  190. Frenchy gave us a chance — both with that play and the great catch for the second out in the seventh. It’s not much of a chance — about the same as hitting the Powerball jackpot, the way Wagner is pitching — but it’s a chance.

  191. Bobby is always late to the party with realizations that are obvioustoeveryone. The loyalty crap can only go so far. Soriano needs to be moved up in the game until he can show he is capable of handling teh late innings again. Why he is out there in the 8th inning of a tie game against the division leader is unbelievable to me, especially considering his ERA the last month is off the charts. Surely there are better options at this point.

  192. Chip says that Chipper can’t hit Wagner and also that maybe Wagner will be wild. Fuck you and your fucktarded predictions. Where is your daddy?

  193. Chris Woodward has got a bat?!??!?!?!??!?!??!?! DIE YOU DUMB MOTHERFUCKER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

  194. Just as you think things just might turn around … when you think that, as Lloyd Christmas would say, “you’re telling me there’s a chance” … Chris Woodward steps out of the dugout.

  195. WHAT THE FUCK???????????
    Leave Bobby in NY for god’s sake, he’s gone senile.

  196. And now he’s taken out McCann (who could have bunted) so now Corky comes in if we amazingly tie or lead.

    worst. managing. ever.

  197. However this turns out, Bobby’s lost it. Corky Miller in extra innings? Why?!

  198. Another brilliant night for Cox–Smoltz labored through the 6th (he needed a blow after covering first on the attempted DP) so Cox sends him out in the 7th to put two runners on base. Then game tied in the 8th, he (assuming Harris didn’t run on his own) wastes an out when Harris is caught stealing. It’s hard to dispute his great run, but some of the recent moves are puzzling.

  199. Can we get one run in with bases loaded no outs? I love Frenchy, but refuse to be optimistic.

  200. Just wasted McCann, for no real reason. I’m with Alex–McCann can’t bunt?

  201. Oh My God, Woodward didn’t fuck us. Bobby is extremely lucky on that call. Bad managing, but even bad managing can’t stop DUMB LUCK once in a while.

  202. we better do something in this situation. If we don’t tie or take the lead I will being feeling mighty murderous.

  203. Bases loaded, ninth inning, nobody out, two nights in a row … and we remember what happened last night.

  204. Everyone happy to see Andruw up in this situation, raise your hands. I just hope he doesn’t hit into a DP.

  205. Andruw, I’ll take back everything I ever said about you if you get a hit here.

  206. Frennchy = that was crap.

    But we are really lucky that was only 1 out.

    But if Andruw is up, then it doesn’t matter…DP.

    God why won’t Bobby use Diaz here.

  207. Andruw, a deep fly ball ties it. You don’t need to swing for the construction site.

  208. Francouer is still over eager in these situaions. And nice AJ for teh DP…..how pathetic.

  209. Seeing how this game has turned out, Andruw will probably hit a grand slam.
    Mmmh no wait… DP?

  210. Andruw defenders, please, please defend this continuing shit from that guy. I just threw a book across the room. I hate you Andruw.

    Why didn’t we use Diaz.

  211. defend andruw? well… that dp was to the right side, that’s a plus, right?


    what a terrible loss

  212. We honestly don’t deserve to make the playoffs if we can’t score one tiny run with the bases loaded and no outs.

  213. Ouch. Batting Andruw 7th ending up killing us. Pathetic.

    Bases loaded, no outs, can’t do anything. Don’t toy with us, guys. Playoff teams don’t do that.

  214. 496–You are so right: nobody should be surprised we cannot deliver when it matters–we will be lucky to win tomorrow.

    This truly sucks….

  215. Can’t wait to see Bobby spin this one.

    “Alou is a really good hiter. He hit a tough pitch”.

  216. 2-game swing, too. Could have been 2.5 out, now we’re back to 4.5.
    We just don’t have it this year.

  217. Bobby, Soriano, Andruw.

    Everyone in here, tonight, please remember the 3 individuals who probably just cost us our Playoffs shot.

  218. RE: that dp was to the right side, that’s a plus, right?

    Joe Simpson would think so–what a maroon.

  219. Crushing loss…hopefully they turn this one around tomorrow. Soriano needs to be moved to mop up until he gets it figured out.

  220. All the Braves needed was a sac fly to tie the game. At least Wagner proved he’s vulnerable. Yes, infuriated is the right word to describe how I feel right now.

  221. im so angry right now it’s unreal.

    i cannot absolutely cannot wait till next year when andruw is not around anymore.
    he hurts this team in so many ways time and time again.

    at least he was finally moved down and then this shit. DIE DIE DIE

  222. It’s probably not worth mentioning, but the season (this series even) is not over. What is wrong with you people? We’ve even got quite a few left with the Mets.

  223. Hey BorASS, if you’re reading this, take Andruw, your millions and go bark up someone else’s tree this winter. I am sick of his smirk, every time he screws this team with one of his patented DP’s or K’s.

    Bases loaded nobody out.

    I wish they would just take Andruw’s fat ass out of the lineup already. Seeing his face makes me beyond livid.

  224. When in doubt, blame all of your problems on people/things that you already don’t like. Life is so much simpler for the simple minded that way.

  225. It should have been 2.5 games tonight and the sweep tomorrow would have made it 1.5.

    Now it’s 4.5 and we are about to face a scorching Phillies team that just won’t DIE and without either of our aces this weekend.

    That’s why this game was so huge. It will be 6.5 by Monday morning, at BEST.

    Fucking Cox.

  226. #538, absolutely. Andruw hurts us much more than Cormier or even Woodward does. He does it everyday.

  227. And hey, I have zero complaints about Woodward tonight. At least when he had his shot, he took a walk.

  228. 1. Chipper could have homered
    2. Teixeira could have hit an XBH to drive in
    3. McCann could have stayed in the game and driven in a run
    3a. Woodward could have driven home a run
    4. Francouer could have driven home a run with an out or a hit
    5. Andruw Jones could have driven home a run
    6. At any point in time we could have saved or scored one more run and won the game or taken it to extra innings.

  229. Let’s look ahead to next year, as this year’s quickly fading away.
    No Wickman.
    No Andruw.
    No Woodward.
    And then in 2009, hopefully, no more Bobby.
    The future looks bright.

  230. Yeah, Mr. Swings. Hank Aaron could have come out of retirement and pinch hit in the 9th.
    Seriously, you’re defending Cox in a game where…
    he let a 40-year old pitcher restart an inning after everyone in north america said he was ‘done’…
    he put in the ONE GUY who is notorious for giving up late home runs with yates and dotel on the bench…
    he wasted our best reliever on one batter…
    he pinch hit our worst hitter for one of our best…
    anything else?
    Yeah, keep defending him.

  231. You won’t find me defending Cox. I just find the perception that whoever makes the last out of the game is responsible for the loss stupid.

  232. In that situation, I think you CAN blame Francouer and Andruw. I mean you’re taught what to do in that situation in Little League.

    Jeff should have been much more patient and worked the pitcher who was clearly absolutely reeling.

    Andruw needed to look for a pitch to elevate.

  233. Alex R. Says:
    August 8th, 2007 at 7:50 pm
    yes, me too. And with that inning, we have a chance now to get this game…wow, I loved the guts of the our boys that half inning.

    Screw you, Mets.

    Right back at ya ;)

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