ESPN – Braves vs. Mets Box Score, August 8 2007 – MLB
Stupid bullpen.
The Braves had nothing going to two out in the sixth, getting one-hit by Orlando Hernandez, trailing 1-0 after Jose Reyes scratched out a run single-handedly in the first. Harris drew a two-out walk, KJ, singled, and Chipper drove them both home on what really should have been scored a single but was called a double when he went to second on the throw. Teixeira singled, and it was 3-1.
John Smoltz didn’t have his best stuff tonight, but got through it throwing lots of sliders. Bobby lifted him with two on, one out in the seventh, at 101 pitches. Mahay came in and promptly walked the terrifying Damion Easley to load the bases. Somehow Reyes’ bloop didn’t drop, but Mahay then gave up a single to tie it to Luis Castillo. In the eighth, Soriano gave up a homer to the dessicated remains of Moises Alou.
Trailing 4-3, the Braves had a great chance to at least tie it when Chipper and Teixeira singled off of Wagner. Bobby hit Woodward for McCann, which I guess makes sense in a bunt situation against Wagner, and Woodward wound up walking on five pitches to load the bases. But Francoeur somehow hit a high outside pitch right to the third baseman, who forced Chipper at home. Andruw’s GIDP to follow was at this point predictable, as his elbow is completely hopeless at this point. The Braves got one baserunner from the last four spots in the order, and that was a walk from Smoltz in the third.
Stupid bullpen.
Just gotta win tomorrow. Hudson, we need it.
Third place, 4.5 behind Mets again. Should be 2.5 behind Mets and still in second with Hudson going for the sweep tomorrow.
Couldn’t hold a 3-1 lead or even get one run with the bases loaded in the ninth. How could you not get even one run there?
A very frustrating loss–this team seems determined to be a .500 club. We win and then rush down to lose like water finding its lowest level.
We will be lucky to win tomorrow no matter how well Hudson pitches…
Soriano is officially the pitching equivalent of Woodward.
I’m still fuming.
Hopefully Huddy comes up big tomorrow.
Does that mean he’ll replace one of our best pitchers late in a tie game? B/c that’s what Woodward does.
Seriously, nothing about tonight’s game made sense.
This one really really really hurt.
Is it time for Joey Devine to stick around and pitch more often than the occassional blowout?
Bases Loaded with Jeff and Andruw up…pathetic…we’ll be lucky to get the wild card.
Yeah, our ‘worst loss of the season’ list continues to grow.
Yes, this one hurts, but I think I’m through with my sorrow for the night. We have tomorrow, then 4 (?) more games against them.
We have to get tomorrow out of the way, then we have to crush the Phillies.
I attribute this to the reality that no matter how much you own a team, you can’t win them all.
Let’s not start sounding like Mets fans now.
By the way, Andruw sucks.
New poll.
I’m convinced Andruw needs to go on the DL.
The DL? He’s not hurt, just stupid.
How about DFA?
His elbow is hurt, disgruntled. He missed 2 games of the last series. And he’s never had a year like this before, leading me to believe he’s been hurt the whole year.
Ok. I just want him gone, no matter how.
Can you DL managers?
#16 – if he can’t hit effectively because of his elbow, then pinch hit for him in that situation or don’t play him. These games mean something, right?
Why not pinch hit Diaz for Andruw there?
Okay, the Braves are still in a position to take two out of three from the Mets (in New York, no less) and win the series. Who wouldn’t settle for that? I know tonight’s loss is frustrating, but the season is far from over. Furthermore, Wagner proved he’s vulnerable, and that’s something the Braves will take to the plate the next time they face him.
Go, Braves!
#18
100% correct
Remy all that is true. However, this team has lost 2 games in less than a week it had in control in that late innings. These are the games this team needs to start winning. Soriano simply can’t groove 0-2 pitches. Andruw and Francouer must take etter approaches in clutch situations. These are the frustrating things that gets everyone upset. We could easily be sitting 3 games better right now if we’d simply execute better in the late innings.
I agree, Hanan; it’s just that I’m trying not to let my frustration with the team turn into despair.
#20 Yeah, Wagner is real vulnerable, we did a good job tying the game up with no outs and bases loaded…
I guess the Alpaca farmer really sent the Braves “Alpacin'”
I hate Chip. And when the Braves lose like this it makes me so mad I can’t properly focus on things. Instead I think of dumb Chip Caray quotes. Anyway, everything that needs to be said, has already been said. So I’m just agreeing with everyone. I was pretty sure I was hallucinating when I saw Woodward grab a bat.
Anyway, they put Soriano in and every Braves fan knew he’d give up a home run, I flipped over to the baseball edition of Mythbusters and the guys proved that corking your bat is the dumbest thing in the world (besides pinch hitting with Woodward for your clean up batter), because the cork absorbs pressure, causing the ball to leave the bat at half the speed of an uncorked bat.
Just a change of subject. And Sammy Sosa is dumb, via Science.
I am not here to rub it in but this is one helluva series. You guys probably should have won tonight but thats baseball. With Maine vs. Hudson tomorrow afternoon I just don’t see the Maine or the Mets showing up tomorrow. Hudson has looked execellent this year so if the braves can get 2 maybe 3 runs that should be enough to win.
I had to watch Georgia football highlights to calm down after this one. Huddy will step up big tomorrow. Is it Andruw’s right or left elbow that is bothering him?
Where is it written that Soriano must pitch the 8th inning of every close game? He is beat – he pitched yesterday, has shown that he is tired by repeated poor performances, etc. However, Bobby’s book says that Soriano pitches the 8th inning, so by golly, he pitches the 8th inning. I swear, would Cox still be managing this team if he hadn’t built up such goodwill on the backs of 3 of the best starters of this generation?
I agree with #3 – we are just a .500 club that can’t stand prosperity.
Hate,
Not sure…check whichever elbow Andruw is carrying Borass from.
I dunno, I think Wagner is less vulnerable after this loss.
Left, it’s his glove elbow. He hyperextended it reaching over a wall in May, trying to catch a homerun.
Tough loss but I expect the Braves to bounce back tomorrow. Time for Huddy to take care of buisness.
Sorry ass time for Mahay to crumble. Castillo does have a .302 BA but Mahay has to get that guy.
Actually Soriano did a pretty good job. The hit by Alou was a high tight fastball that he somehow got the fat part of the bat on. Hats off to old Moises on that one.
The thing that hurts is that Andruw is now a drag on the team. 2 double plays tonight. Both killing rallys. If he is ineffective he should be rested or DLed.
Let’s face it, Andruw should hit the DL. He would be hitting ninth if he played for the Cardinals right now, and as good defensively as we all know he is, he’s only making it worse by diving for balls and swinging. Put fast Willie in center and let Matty Diaz play left. I just don’t think they want to DL him while Edgar is on there. I’m all for DL’ing Andruw and Soriano and letting them rest, it really can’t hurt at this point. DL Andruw, have Thorman take some balls out in left, DL Soriano and callup Royce Ring from Richmond. Make Moylan the 7th inning guy, Dotel the 8th inning guy. I don’t think it will happen, but I can dream.
A tough loss, but I’d rather lose 4-3 in the 9th inning than see yet another extra-inning game.
El Duque was pitching very well tonight. Watching the ninth inning rally deflate in a matter of seconds was tough, but overall it was a good game. If we can win 2 out of 3, we succeeded, so lets not jump ship to early, guys.
I don’t trust Dotel with anything right now. We could be losing 13-0 and I’d still be like “there bringing in Dotel??”
*they’re
Shoulda coulda woulda. Let’s get ’em tomorrow.
I’m now prepared to discuss what happened tonight.
First of all, poor ububba and RobBroad4th and every other Braves fan there tonight. That had to be about 100 times worse than watching it on TV.
Second, I was desperately hoping that Andruw would K there in the 9th, know that contact meant a game-ending DP. It’s very frustrating to expect a negative result (just like Soriano giving up a HR to Alou) and then have it happen.
Third, I didn’t think the Woodward PH move was bad, even before he drew the walk. Bunting was absolutely the right play in that situation, and we all remember what happened the last time McCann was asked to bunt.
Finally, this is easily the most maddening Braves team I’ve ever followed. Even worse—right now, much worse—than those awful teams in the ’80s. At least with those, your spirit was broken by mid-May or so. This one keeps dragging us back in only to drop us down even lower. I’m not giving up on the season by any means, but I’m pretty disgusted right now with how many of these games there seems to have been.
Here’s the solution to the Soriano problem — Moylan should replace him as the 8th inning guy. I don’t trust Dotel or Soriano at this point and the gopher balls are getting old.
Also, Devine’s not ready to step into a key bullpen role; he’s not the answer. Our answer, sadly, is on the DL in the person of Mike Gonzales.
The Braves have been less than clutch all year long with getting runners home from 3rd with less than 2 out. Would have loved to have seen what Escobar would have done up there in the 9th with 2 out.
Sorry, talk about 2 of 3 all you want, but when you let a game like this slip by, it is disgusting. However, winning the series wil be useless chatter after the momentum shift tonight.
The Mets will win on Thursday. It’s been the Braves’ pattern…tease us with hopes of a solid run and then abruptly crashing.
Also, I keep mentioning that KJ needs to cap those strikeout totals as Willie Harris needs to stop trying to swipe bags.
However, winning the series wil be useless chatter after the momentum shift tonight.
Um, no. If we win the series, that moves our Mets Record this season to 8-4. The momentum—not to mention the psychological edge—would definitely be with us, though obviously not as much as it would if we’d been able to manage a sweep.
I’ve been to two Mets-Braves games in NY and we lost both of them (both the second game of the series). Let’s hope my absence tomorrow will get things going again.
We were up in the upper deck so we had to walk the gauntlet of Mets fans so to speak.
I’m not 100% there yet, but I’m starting to agree with the DL Andruw crowd. If you’re hurting physically, hurting your line-up with your lack of productivity, AND have a serviceable replacement (I’d say Harris is above serviceable), you should hit the DL and rest up for more decisive games down the road. But Andruw’s not used to missing games so he’s understandably (though frustratingly) stubborn.
Stu — Just feel like no matter what, this team doesn’t get over the hump. Usually I’m optimistic about things, but we’ve seen too many winnable games end up in the L column to think that it won’t eventually do us in.
Stu : “that moves our Mets Record this season to 8-4. The momentum—not to mention the psychological edge.” That is great and all, and I think pretty much everybody agrees that the Braves are a better team than the Mets now on paper, but “momentum against the Mets” and “psychological edges against the Mets” don’t count for wins in the win column. I would take my chances with the Braves against the Mets in a seven game series, no doubt in my mind, but if the Braves keep losing these winnable games like tonight, against the Astros, etc., then there is no way that they’re going to make the playoffs. They have to keep off the Phillies, Padres/DBacks/Rockies, Cubs, etc, not just the Mets.
The game was disgusting, as was the heat. I groaned so loudly when Woodward came up, I almost headed for the train. When Andrew came up, I was already standing ready to walk. Wish he could’ve done the same. I HATE walking to the train after a Braves loss, but I’m female so Met fans rarely say anything to me. Not tonight though. You would’ve thought the Mets had just won Game 6 of the NLCS. Oh, and I HATE Cow Bell Man.
The Braves will win tomorrow. I’ll take 2 out of 3 in a heartbeat.
I put up a poll, who do you hate more right now?
Woodward
Soriano
A Jones
I tihnk AJ needs to be put on 15 day DL, let his elbow cure. There is plenty of offense without his 217 average, and there is no reason a kid at AAA cant provide some O, even with Willie Diaz and Francoeur as the outfield, thats better than what AJ is giving us right now
Soriano is DONE. At least for tihs year. perhaps its time to make Moylan your 8th inning guy or 7th and Dotel(scary) your 8th. Leading to Wickimania. If Gonzo stayed healthy, you wouldnt have to worry about Soriano having a dead arm. Too bad we cuoldnt go out and get another top arm, and one in the off season, move smoltzie back to closer!
Also, i know bunting with 2 on in the ninth is smart baseball, and statistically sound and everything else, but Wagner was a little rattled after two hits, I wish they wold have let McCann swing away, see if you couldnt just do some damage
Problem with using Moylan late is that we have no one to get out of jams like the one that Mahay was put into tonight – jams that Moylan’s been getting out of all year. Once he’s the 8th inning guy, he won’t do much else. I think he’s more valuable where he is. I wish I knew who to put in the set-up role, but all I know is that it can’t be Soriano for a while.
Gotta cut your losses and use Moylan in the 8th. Hopefully, Dotel may rebound a bit and serve as the middle inning man.
Also, Mahay’s problem wasn’t the hit he surrendered….it was the walk. The hit was a broken back bloop that was fisted into center. Hate those walks!
Hard to give that game back like we did tonight. It never should’ve come to Wagner.
If there’s a bright side for me tonight it’s this: I did get to meet another forum person (RobBroad4th—nice hang, we’ll do it again) and the game wasn’t as bad as my return LIRR ride—packed train with no AC, people were almost passing out. I felt like I was getting shipped to Siberia.
Hey, we’ll shake it off tonight & Huddy’ll bring it home tomorrow.
I’m not as doom and gloom as some on here, but I have to say I was ridiculously disappointed that AJ had such a weak, terrible hack at a ball he could drive. Shoot, he could have atleast hit a medium fly ball. If AJ is hurt, he’s hitting .215, and he can’t even get a runner home from 3rd, then don’t you have to think about DLing him? If you DL him, then who do you call up?
Oh, and I’m having LASIK surgery tomorrow morning. Has anyone had it, and have any suggestions on making “recovery” as easy as possible?
Rob,
Just don’t read anything by Kathy Griffin about it.
Frustrating loss, “stupid bullpen” is right, and I’d have taken a split going into tomorrow at the beginning of the week.
It’s time for Huddy to, once again, save the Braves’ bacon. I’ve got a good feeling about tomorrow.
Sounds like a miserable loss (the in-laws are here so I haven’t been able to watch the last few games). I’m interested to see how the boys bounce back in the early game tomorrow. Obviously, Huddy needs to keep it tight.
As an aside, I want to thank everyone involved in the “Grammar Police” discussion earlier. Both of my guests are English professors and they loved the fact that such a topic was being discussed on a baseball blog.
/also has AP. And the AMA Manual Of Style, which has some interesting differences.
Rob,
Ask your nurse. They usually know more than the doctor.
Rob,
It would have to be an OF we call up, since without Andruw we don’t really have any spare OF- Thorman can stand around in LF, and maybe Escobar or Woodward could. And our only decent options there are Gregor Blanco or Brandon Jones (who just arrived from Mississippi). Larry Bigbie and Doug Clark are hitting decently, but they’re both AAA lifers and I’d be suspicious of either of them.
Speaking of Mississippi, there’s no one blowing out the lights there either in the outfield. Carl Loadenthal is the only decent hitter among our AA OFs. (The Miss Braves are only carrying 4 OFs now, so they’d have to call up someone from Myrtle Beach if we were to bring him in.)
Greet to meet you, ububba. As soon as I get my schedule for school I can start looking at that September series. Who knows where the Braves will be in the standings by that point.
“These are tough games, because they’re a split-second away from changing the tone of the interviews, you know?” Smoltz said. “Baseball is cruel, and this was a cruel game.”
Well put.
Brandon Jones is raking at Richmond since his promotion — .316/.384/.539. He’d probably be the guy called up if Andruw is put on the DL.
Gregor Blanco could probably pinch-run and play defense well.
Padres lost, so in the Wild Card the Braves remain 1.5 behind them and .5 behind the Phils.
Upon further inspection, it’d probably be Blanco. He’s on the 40 man while Jones isn’t, plus he can play CF while Jones is more of a corner OF.
If the last two games are been any indication, then Andruw should be DL’d. He’s got nothing.
The latest from Peanut on Andruw’s elbow:
Jones says his left elbow still was bothering him and that he expects it to be a problem throughout the rest of the season. The Gold Glove outfielder received a cortisone shot in the elbow late Friday night and has since realized minimal relief.
Soriano delenda est. Andruw delenda est. Bobby delenda est. Who didn’t see that Smoltz should have been taken out after the 6th inning? Who didn’t see that Soriano would give up a homerun if he were brought in for the 8th? Who didn’t see Andruw would fail in the 9th? That was ridiculous. This team has no killer instinct. It just goes out there hoping to win rather than making wins happen. I have a feeling last night was the end of any serious shot the Braves had at the division.
I am not sure if that games was not worse than the game where we blew Hudson’s 3 run lead in the 9th. I am completely disgusted! How does Soriano continually get ahead of hitters and yet still give up home runs?
Great senior moments in baseball:
Let’s see, better take Smoltzie out.
Easley- Bats Right
Reyes- Switch Hitter
Castillo- Bats Right
2 Runners on. I’ll send in the lefthander because
of…um, well… anyway Sorry Annie will get’em in the 8th.
Damn!
Hey look, we got two runners on. Obviously, time to send Woodward up to bunt! Amazing! C’mon Jeffrey, just keep stroking.
Whoops. Well, Druw’s always clutch here. Just get one in the air.
Aw, shucks. Well, baseball’s a cruel game. What are you gonna do? Sometimes there’s nothing you can do about it.
Oh, really?
That is the 2nd straight night with bases loaded no outs and we can’t score a run. There is no excuse why you can’t score 1 run in that situation, period. Let’s just hope that Huddy can get us another series win tonight.
Also, why does the site now say Cormier delenda est? Was that the final result of the poll a few days ago? If so, I don’t get it. He’s not even with the team right now.
I got a feeling last nights loss is going to carry over to the game today and hudson will get smacked around and our offensive will be flat…then we go to philly and get swept.
Baseball IS pretty cruel.
Who can forget our crap bullpen last year, the 18 inning debacle in Houston in 2005, the Eric Gregg game in ’97, Mark Redman’s starts, the ’91 WS (esspecially Games 6 and 7), the ’96 WS, the ’99 WS…etc?
oh, does anyone else remember that game a long time ago we played against Baltimore when they beat us 22-2 and Cal Ripken jr. went 6 for 6 or somethign like that?
Baseball IS cruel, and sometimes you really can’t do anything about it.
Also, I thought I’d inject a little optimism this morning. We are still only 1.5 back for the wild card. So let’s get back on the horse tonight and win the series.
At least this was a relatively quick death. They could have tied it, gone 2 or 3 extras, used up more arms, and then lost.
ububba and Rob, props on being in enemy territory representing us during such a humiliating game. I just realized how tough that’s got to be.
Thank you guys, really!
Just Remember you just win the series and you make up ground. Also, we will make the playoffs on the pace that we are on. Were still ok!
Plenty of time left.
If they cut the games down to six innings, the Braves would be the best team in baseball. Everyone assumes that Hudson wins today. What if he doesn’t? Then it’s 5.5 and, I think, pretty much over. The trade hasn’t helped (although Tex has been more than fine); 3-3 since then, 13-12 since the break, 36-42 since the high point, 44-45 since April. Very consistent .500 team. Saying the Braves are better than the Mets “on paper” is pointless. Even if true, who cares? As Bill Parcells says, you are what your record is. The team is in third place. They have lost so many winnable games–not games they could have won, but games they had and should have won. You can’t win every game by five runs.
I know this is “doom and gloom” and yes I am a pessimist but I’m not optimistic about the chances for either the division or the Wild Card. Just saying you are going to get hot (and the Braves are good at talking a good game) doesn’t get it done.I see no reason to think that these games are going to start going the Braves way. After 100+ games of basically .500 ball, it’s a little old to start talking about rolling through the division.
The Braves talk about baseball being cruel (Smoltz in the AJC) as if there is some disembodied spirit deciding the outcome. I doubt the Red Sox think it’s cruel. It’s not cruel if you get key hits, good pitching, and the bullpen gets guys out late. Saying the game is “cruel” is just a way of not saying we aren’t that good. Game after game like this for the last two years isn’t cruelty (except to fans), it’s bad baseball.
‘Jeremy Says:
August 9th, 2007 at 1:44 am
Brandon Jones is raking at Richmond since his promotion — .316/.384/.539. He’d probably be the guy called up if Andruw is put on the DL’
his numbers in ms this year were .293/.368/.507 with 15 hrs and 74 rbi in 94 games.
I couldn’t even finish your post Marc. At least you admitted that you are a pessimist. Some of what you say may be true. We are/have been essentially a .500 team. I just disagree that the season is over with a loss tonight. If we lost tonight and were 2.5 games back of the Mets, you wouldn’t say the season was over. Yet if we lose tonight, the worst we can be is 2.5 back of San Diego for the wild card. I say anyone with the above mentality needs to take a step back from the ledge. Last year sucked so bad as a fan. I am excited even this morning (after last nights loss) at the race to the finish this season.
RE: Also, why does the site now say Cormier delenda est? Was that the final result of the poll a few days ago? If so, I don’t get it. He’s not even with the team right now.
Where is he? I thought he was skipped in the rotation but had not heard about his leaving the team.
NEW THREAD UP…
Dustin,
I do it all the time & I’ve been doing it for years.