The slugging first baseman that the Braves need, and have lacked (other than for a couple of months of LaRoche) since Andres Galarraga. Teixeira is from Maryland but played college ball at Georgia Tech, where in 2000 he was the Baseball America College Player of the Year. The Rangers made him the fifth pick in the 2001 draft. In 2002 he hit .318 with 19 homers in 86 minor league games, and in 2003 he was in the majors.
Primarily a third baseman in college and the minors, the Rangers shifted him to first base partially out of defensive concern but also because they already had Hank Blalock. Teixeira was fifth in the Rookie of the Year balloting in 2003, hitting a solid but unspectacular .259 .331 .480. He blossomed the next season, raking it for .281 .370 .560, and followed up with .301 .379 .575 in 2005, leading the league in total bases, finishing seventh in the MVP voting, and making the All-Star team.
Teixeira didn’t play quite as well in 2006, but .282 .371 .514 will more than do. This season, he’s had some injuries (after playing every game in 2005-06) and has hit .297 .397 .524. His most-similar player through Age 26 is Fred McGriff, but resembles Chipper in a way — a switch-hitter with an all-around offensive game. He won the last two AL Gold Gloves at first base. There were some concerns that he was partially a creation of the Rangers’ ballpark, but has hit basically the same at home and on the road the last couple of years.
Actually he has pretty significant home/road splits
Well, last year he hit much better on the road than at home. This year his average is a lot higher at home but his OBP and SLG are pretty similar.
.331 .403 .535 .938 .404 Home last line is BABIP
.264 .392 .514 .906 .288 Away
Actually has hit 8 HR on the road and 5 at home. BA descrepency must be BABIP. OBP is very good in any case.
Over at other Brave’s sites there is a lot of moaning about the price we had to pay. I’m very ok with this trade. None of the guys we are giving up are ‘can’t miss’ prospects. Even Salty. For the Rangers who are so way out of it it aint funny it was smart of them to leverage their most tradeable player into 1 solid prospect, 1 athletic shortstop and 2 high ceiling arms. They certainly weren’t going to win anything with Teixiera. Schuerholz has rolled the dice to win now with the aging core of the team.
ESPN says Octavio Dotel for Kyle Davies. I just got in the country; sorry if that’s old news.
Yay for Mark Teixera!
http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/ajc/sportscolumns/entries/2007/07/30/teixeira_gives.html
Amen, Schultz.
It’s nice to see that the AJC columnists are also on the side of logic. I never understood the philosophy of holding onto guys who MIGHT work out when you can have a full fledged superstar like Teixeira in his prime.
Rob Cope-
Welcome back to the U.S. and good to see you are on the side of the majority in Braves Journal and happy to have Mark Teixeira.
Many of us were celebrating and doing the Tomahawk yesterday over this news!
Alex, I’ve never been as excited for a mid-season game with the Astros as I am for the one this evening. I’m full out giddy.
Seriously, JDMaker! I am so stoked and I hope we get our first teixeira peek tonight.
When the Braves come back to DC for their final Nationals series in September, I plan to be at all 4 games with a smile 🙂
I was listening on the radio this morning and they were saying it may be Wednesday before Tex is in the lineup. I don’t know why. Surely he was aware of what was going on. They couldn’t do the physical in Atlanta? I’d like to see him go deep tonight.
What do you think about the possible trade for Arroyo? I remember his days with the BoSox, can’t say ESPN airs, nor do I watch, a whole lot of Reds games. His numbers looks a little iffy.
That’s a shame…we can’t afford any more games without his bat at this point. We need to start our run now.
Let’s just hope the adrenaline, now in the rest of the roster, gets us a much needed whome win tonight.
Not until Weds? Maybe the Braves can’t afford plane tickets for all of these guys. I sure hope to see him in the line up tonight, I can’t wait to see how Chipper and the rest of the guys take to him. They never seemed all that fond of Salts.
I’m leary about an Arroyo trade. It would probably cost too much for my taste. I’m just not sure I want to see us give up Escobar and prospects now.
JDMaker-
His numbers are iffy but he’s been much better of late and he’s historically a tough pitcher who’s gutty in the post season. I would definitely make the move.
The question is if we get Arroyo, is Carlyle or Reyes leaving the rotation to make room? I would rather have the 2 lefties and let Buddy be a long reliever. Buddy’s done a nice job in the rotation, deserves a lot of credit if you ask me, but I wouldn’t mind maybe Buddy replacing Tyler Yates and giving Yates like a month on the DL to re-charge his batteries so we could get the Yates from April and May again come September.
Alex, I’m liking the idea of getting Arroyo. He seems to be the best pitcher available, better than Loche for sure. I’m not sure if I agree with taking Buddy out of the lineup. He seems just as “gutty” as Arroyo, I feel like we should send Reyes back down before we “Devine” him. He’s pitched pretty well so far, but it might take one start to destroy his MLB confidence for awhile . . . but maybe that’s just me.
I wouldn’t have a problem with whatever the Braves decided, concerning Buddy vs. Reyes, should we snag Arroyo. But I like the idea of getting Arroyo from the standpoint of being a proven commodity and it gives us a 3rd reliable veteran come post season.
Still, if we don’t get Arroyo, I am feeling pretty comfortable with the idea of Chuck james as the 3rd starter in post season.
Because we also have to keep in mind that our offense should now be far more reliable with Teixeira in the middle of it–and scoring more runs will in turn let all our pitchers feel more relaxed and have a lot more confidence on the mound.
I’m excited about getting Octavio Dotel.
True, I think you’re right about the increased confidence. I think the players will get a jump start from this trade. It shows that the management isn’t messing around, they want to win and win now. It also takes the pressure off of people like Andruw and Frenchy to hit big flies.
I agree that Chuck James is a pretty solid number three, assuming of course that he can keep it up.
There also comes to the question of Smoltzy’s shoulder. I know he is a fierce competitor, but if it gives out it gives out. Hudson, James, Caryle, Reyes, Davies/Villareal doesn’t look as good to me.
According to MLBtraderumors, the dotel deal is not a done deal but is simply being discussed. I don’t really know what’s what.
I read that JS can’t do anything until the physicals in the Tex trade are completed. So he’s sitting on his hands until then.
Home
2006 : 266/336/455
2005 : 334/411/698
Away
2006 : 298/406/577
2005 : 270/349/459
thats 2 years of performance where there is a 200 pt OPS difference between home and road records. Soriano had similar splits and he did OK, so might not be anything. But there is a home/away split
Yes, I think the Dotel deal has been verbally committed to–but nothing is officaly yet which is why you see half the websites/newspapers saying it IS done and the other half saying it ISN’T.
And you definitely can’t put a price tage on the mental game of Baseball. how much did it start to affect Smoltz or the offense, everytime Reitsma or Kolbb came out & effed up another save? It started to wear on this team.
there have been so many losses in the last few weeks where the Braves would get one quality start after another, but either the offense, the bullpen or worse, BOTH, would eventually let the team down.
In reality, we should be about a game or a 1/2 a game behind the Mets, if not for the recent pen/offensive struggles.
Actually, in thinking about it, just in the last 2 weeks, I count 2 of the 3 Reds losses, both Cardinal losses, both Giant losses, both Diamondback losses as all very winnable games–that was not necessarily the fault of starting pitching. That’s 7 possible extra wins we could have had.
Yes, Teixeira, Mahay and Dotel (and possibly Arroyo) can really make a difference.
Alex, the Nats might be leading the division if their Pen/Offense/Everything wasn’t “struggling.”
But I think you’re right. If we can get Dotel and Arroyo it will be a big lift even if it is only a confidence lift.
Yeah, I hear ya…but of those 7 losses, we should have reasonably won 5 of them. But the same bad patterns of the same tired relievers and the same heartbreaking performance by the offense–it kept repeating itself like the groundhog!
“UPDATE: Word via the Kansas City Star is that the Royals will get Kyle Davies in the deal. The Teixeira trade needs to be finalized first though. Nice job by Dayton Moore. Apparently he preferred Davies over Wladimir Balentien. ” -From MLBTR
http://www.kansascity.com/385/story/211348.html
Nevermind, I mis read that. Whoops, He updates down not up. I’m apparently a moron.
I am always hesitant when we trade away top rookies, especially pitchers, but all I have to do is remember the trade for the Crime Dog and I come back to reality and take a proven commodity for a few unproven ones. The lefty reliever is shaky at best, one good year in his career, but if gets us through the season I will be happy.
I would take Dotel for Davies in a second, Davies is painful to watch.
Godot,
True, except one year his home OPS is 200 pts higher and the other year his road OPS is higher. Seems insignificant.
I live in Reds country. They promote Arroyo like a rock star-he even has a band! I attended a game in June that was Bronson Arroyo cap night-the 1st 10,000 fans got a red cap with a fake blonde mullet! It was a cross promotion to a concert he had coming in July.
Oh, he can pitch some, too. I think he’d love to get on TBS and get some national exposure.
I would definitely give up Escobar for Arroyo.
I don’t want Arroyo.
Dotel-for-Davies is a deal I’d take in a second.
Yeah, Escobar is the no-brainer part. Jo-Jo has a lot of value.
I don’t buy that Balentien was offered if we’re getting Dotel for Davies. First, I don’t think Dotel is worth Balentien. Second, Balentien has nothing but power and upside, while Davies has fizzle and fail.
Power bats like Balentien are hard to find, even in the minors. If he’s offered, you take it. I don’t think he was offered.
I’m not sure I’d give up Escobar now that we are eliminating Andrus as a future SS. Also, Renteria is gonna be gone in the near future and Lillibridge hasn’t shown me anything to date. Trading Escobar would be the equivalent of throwing in all of our chips. I’d be willing to do that if the pitcher was someone in the ace category, but Arroyo is at best a #3. He would help, but at would cost would his help be worth it?
I like Lillibridge more than Escobar or Andrus. If we trade Escobar, we’re not “throwing in all of our chips” as much as annointing him Edgar’s successor.
Also, Prado doesn’t suck and KJ was initially a SS. That might not be an obvious option, but how many people thought KJ would be playing second this year?
If Arroyo comes, I assume it would be Jo Jo out in the cold or in the bullpen. He doesn’t look ready to pitch regularly in a pennant drive. I think Dotel for Davies would be good but I wouldn’t be surprised if Davies came back to haunt us. I really think he would benefit from pitching without pressure. I suspect he was trying too hard; remember, Smoltz and Glavine (and Maddux) were able to do on-the-job training without much pressure. Davies has talent.
My feeling about the trade is that the only guy I really regret losing is Salty. Whoever the two pitchers are, they are just prospects and the Braves record with prospect pitchers isn’t too great. One of these days, one of these young pitchers will be great and haunt us, but the odds of any given pitching prospect being better than an established player is low. As for Andrus, unless he is an A-Rod-type, we can afford to lose him. Middle infielders, no matter how good, don’t decide pennant races unless they are very elite types like A-Rod or Joe Morgan or Chase Utley. Andrus doesn’t sound like he is going to be in that category no matter how good of a shortstop he is. And the Braves have lots of shortstop prospects. Even Jose Reyes, as good as he is, isn’t really a difference maker, as opposed to someone like Pujols (and, btw, while Reyes has 48 steals, he has been caught 20 times). It’s a power game now. Salty is the guy that could be the impact player. But there is no doubt that Daniels did a great job of maximizing the Rangers’ return for Teixera. I wish Jim Bowden would take some lessons for the Nationals.
Overall, I think the trade is a bit of a gamble (because of Tex’s free agent status), but you can’t keep playing for three years down the line. The Braves have a core of young players and another aging, but still productive, group. While it’s nice to put a team out there that is all homegrown like the Braves have done at times, that’s not going to win anything. The best teams the Braves have had featured players they acquired. The Big Red Machine wasn’t all home grown. You just can’t win big without bringing guys in. And I think if you are going to trade your best prospect, trade him for the best player available. There is no doubt the Braves did that. And it’s not like the Braves will never have any more good prospects.
Another thing, this kind of trade sends a positive signal to the team and to the fans that they are going for it. The Braves are a player again and that is likely to have a positive effect on the veterans especially. In recent years, there have been a lot of doubts about how committed the organization was to winning. It suggests to me that the rumors about increasing payroll are probably true.
And, Alex, I think if not for the bullpen and hitting problems, the Braves would be in first place. As mediocre as the Mets have been this year, they would have been 9 or 10 games behind the old Braves. I would feel better about the trade if the Braves were in first or at least leading the wild card but they certainly have a shot. I just hope Tex doesn’t put too much pressure on himself to do too much.
Escobar is a glorified singles hitter, you always give that up for a dependable starter.
Given that Escobar has played a good bit over the last week or so (unlike Salty) I have a feeling he won’t be going anywhere. Like it or not, JS and the gang look at him as the SS of the future, I have to assume.
Why does everyone think Edgar is gone soon? Don’t the Braves have another year on his contract? He’s only 32 and obviously still productive, albeit obviously not the best defensive shortstop in baseball. I don’t see any reason to trade him just to trade him.
I agree with Marc (#36) about this being a ‘message’ trade. It would be hard to explain to the team that you decided not to trade for the all-star 1B because you didn’t want to give up the 18 year old kid in A ball.
hey guys, what’s a good Atlanta sports radio station??
I’m from FL and wanna hear some online Braves radio talk …
I listened to that Cowherd guy and he sucked. Anyone have any suggestions? Thanks
I like the idea of Lillibridge. I’m just not sure if it will come to fruition. As for Escobar being traded, I would be for it if it was an impact pitcher and I’m just not so sure Arroyo is that guy.
@36: I’d say Jose Reyes is a difference maker.
I think Renty may be traded in the offseason because he has one year remaining, we have a player to fill his position in Escobar (although I’m not advocating 100% that we do this), and we will have other holes that need to be filled.
agree, HateKing.
RehabReject – the only one in Atlanta is 680 the Fan and you’d be hardpressed to hear them discussing baseball, especially now during the Vick thing. Besides, they carry ESPN throughout the day and Cowherd is on that station.
For me, in the theoretical Arroyo trade that has very little chance of occuring, Escobar is the easy part. We’re going to eventually have to do something with either him or Lillibridge, anyway. Losing six years of Reyes for a year and change of Arroyo is the tougher call. I know his 19 innings in the bigs haven’t been great, but I still think he’s a major-league ready arm.
Do y’all think that JoJo as the fifth starter will produce a lot of wins? Arroyo is cheap this year and next and his arm seems to be coming back from pitching 240+ innings last year. Now, if we have to give up a lot more than Escobar…it just seems imperative that we get somebody better than JoJo to pitch every fifth day, even if that means the return of the Vulture to the rotation.
And just for the record, I love the Tex deal. Would have rather had Wilson, but Mahay has been solid.
I think most people love the Tex deal. Heck, I’d love it without Mahay.
hey Coz,
yeah I tried 680 the fan and it kinda sucked.
what about 790 The Zone? is that any good?
When the Braves used to play for ‘today’, in the glory days of the early & mid 90’s during the Ted era, we were all happier people. I just don’t ever subscribe to holding onto an 18 yr. old who you hope is good, when yuo can get a 27 year old superstar to fill a gpaing hole on your roster.
1st Base, by far, was our weakest position. And we just upgraded from the equivalent of a Yugo or Chevy Malibu to a Porsche or a Range Rover.
Bronson Arroyo is not what I’d call a “dependable starter.”
The reason you trade Renteria (IMO) is that he’s 32, so he’s at the end of his peak period. He’s also currently hitting as well as he ever has before and isn’t likely to sustain it. And he’s expensive and he’s not a great defensive shortstop and that’s only going to get worse.
Escobar doesn’t hit for power, but probably is a .280-.290 guy with greater range and is, obviously, much, much cheaper.
You got way, way, way more from Renteria than anyone thought you would. You’ve got a suitable replacement for him. Get max value for him in a trade and fill another hole.
I don’t know if I’ve heard that. I’ll check it out. Have to go sit in the car for about an hour so I’ll give you a report. 😉
I’d be very willing to trade Renteria in the offseason for the reasons Noah gives in # 52. Maybe for a CF to replace Andruw?
Renteria’s not going anywhere. Period.
Well, I certainly wouldn’t give the Reds Jo Jo for Arroyo; I wouldn’t give them much more than a second level prospect considering how poorly Arroyo has pitched this year (except for the one game against, of course, the Braves). I was assuming that Jo Jo would go down to the minors, not that he would be traded.
Hate King, we will have to disagree about Reyes. I like him but the Mets offense has struggled even with him in the lineup. He steals a lot of bases but gets thrown out a lot too. Now, if he develops significant home run power, like Rollins, that might be different but in the long run, Reyes isn’t going to have the impact that a middle of the order hitter will.
On a side note. What is the deal with the Braves current TV Contract? I thought I had heard that TBS was trying to distance themselves from Baseball. If that is the case where do you think they end up? Liberty Media does own a quite a bit of television stations, etc.
@53
Yeah, it’s good so far. They’re interviewing Chipper and it’s great what he’s saying so far about how their lineup has no holes anymore. Even the pitchers are getting hits like Hudson, Smoltz, and JoJo
Count me as someone who’d be very happy to Have Jose Reyes in Atlanta. yes, he’s been caught, but the guy is a beast of a player.
JDMaker
TBS is distancing itself from the Braves, not baseball
Is Ian Snell still out there as a trading possibility or have the Pirates taken him off the table?
I’d put him in the “reliable starter” category.
How I’d construct the lineup:
1) Harris/Escobar
2) Edgar
3) Chipper
4) Tex
5) Andruw
6) Brian
7) Francoeur
8) KJ/Diaz
9) P
Arroyo is pretty reliable, considering he would be replacing a rookie who has looked quite shaky. Arroyo had a sub-4 ERA last year and has gotten on track as of late, and not just against us.
I’m just saying – if we’re going all in, we need to go all in.
JoeyT-
Then Teixeira will be seeing a lot of down & away pitches with Andruw behind him. No thank you.
I would definitely have Brian McCann batting 5th–or even chooose Francouer to hit 5th, McCann 6th and Andruw 7th.
But definitely wouldn’t hit ‘Druw higher then 7th–the guy doesn’t remotely deserve to be trusted at this point with his ridiculous average.
Justin: Does that mean TBS is going be airing other games besides the Braves? Which then begs the question, what is the state of the Braves tv contract/coverage?
I like how your 8 is a too cool for school smiley face there JoeyT.
McCann would be great 5th, except then you have Frenchy and Andruw clustered, and I like have R-L-R whenever possible in the late innings.
JDMaker-
Yes, starting next season, hell on earth happens and TBS becomes a National League station, not just a Braves station.
Chip “eyebrows” Carey must be doing summersaults right now. I hope Skip spanks him.
As long as Andruw doesn’t hit in the 3-4-5-6 spots anymore, then McCann and Frenchy can be ordered however you like. I am just strongly, strongly, strongly against hitting Andruw higher then 7th anymore.
This guy doesn’t deserve it & he’s cost the Braves way too amny games already hitting middle of the order.
Well that pretty much sucks. I guess I’ll have to get the baseball package to watch the games. All I can say is Comcast better pony up and get them in HD next year.
I mostly did it as an exercise in seeing how gapless the lineup is. The only weak hitters in the lineup are platooned so they look really good (Harris, Escobar, Diaz). It really is an amazing lineup, the kind you don’t usually see outside of the Yankersox.
UPDATE 3: Mark Bowman of MLB.com says the teams are not close to finalizing a deal and John Schuerholz has yet to enter into serious negotiations.
update on Dotel
JDMaker,
Yes, I have now gotten used to the Baseball package and would have gotten the Comcast package again this year, if Bud & Baseball hadn’t been so goddamned greedy for so long, forcing me to buy the MLB package (online) and by the time I called MLB for a refund (once Comcast had struck a deal with MLB), MLB online said I was past date and couldn’t refund.
But yes…buying the MLB package on TV or the computer will now have to be a way of life. I can’t live without my regular dose of Braves games.
If KJ is hitting 8th, has there ever been a player that has 9 triples in one season batting 8th? I think Bobby has to flip him and Harris
TBS will have a Sunday afternoon “national” game of the week starting next season plus some of the playoffs. I assume the Braves will be like most teams–cable/on-air available in the local market. At least Chip will be able to screw up baseball only once a week.
Well, Bobby has been hitting him 7th, even with all his triples.
Maybe McCann-Frenchy-KJ-Andruw can go 5th through 8th against RHP. Bobby will never do it, but it’s not a bad idea.
Colin Cowherd is fun. He’s not really there for baseball game breakdowns, and he’s said that himself. I like him.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/lineup?team=atl
Is fun to read.
‘TBS will have a Sunday afternoon “national” game of the week starting next season plus some of the playoffs. I assume the Braves will be like most teams–cable/on-air available in the local market. At least Chip will be able to screw up baseball only once a week.’
Does that mean the games won’t be available at least regionally on TBS? How many games will SportsSouth and FSN pick up?
Alex: My parents have the Comcast package, which is nice if I’m in Richmond. I can always go over there. My brother also has the internet package, which in my opinion leaves a little to be desired. It is better than nothing for sure, I enjoy being able to watch a game at work/studying for an exam in the library.
Marc: You don’t think there is any chance of Liberty finding a national channel for the Braves? They do have a stable full of them.
The internet package is weak, and the screen size has been way too small IMHO. They sent me these complicated instructions (via email)to be able to adjust the problems I am having with the screen size and I haven’t bothered.
The whole experience has been frustrating.
On the flipside, I can follow the Braves game, live, online, and still watch something like “Rescue Me” or “Entourage” with my wife on TV. A 2 for 1.
I think agreements with Fox, ESPN, and, now, TBS would make putting the Braves on a national net difficult. Already, TBS was having to cut back Braves games. They certainly won’t grant any more WGN/TBS type deals approval.
JDMaker1,
That’s an interesting question but I haven’t heard anything about Liberty starting a network for the Braves. If they did, it would almost certainly be a regional channel; I doubt that it would have much value for cable systems outside the south. I assume that’s why TW got rid of the Braves.
I don’t live in the Atlanta area but I thought that the SportsSouth/FSN would be the regional networks for the Braves but that TBS would carry some games in the Atlanta area. That’s pretty much what happens in most places; I live in the Washington, DC area and we have MASN regionally for most of the Nationals and Orioles and a network of broadcast channels for a few games. I think that’s what most teams do.
Mostly, it’s MLB with their Extra Innings and MLB.tv who don’t want the Braves on a national net. They want Braves fans outside the Southeast to have to pay money to watch them.
JoeyT-
Agreed…like Marc Schneider and others on here, I am also in the DC area so I guess we all have to live with this going forward.
I miss the good ole’ days when it was all Braves, all the time, no matter where I lived.
I agree. I’m from Richmond and all we get is both MASNs. I don’t really care to watch either the Nats or the O’s. The baseball package it is for me.
I am on the road so I missed the earlier thread–but this deal is probably an unmitigaged disaster. The only way it makes sense is for the Braves to re-sign Teixiera. I certainly hope that JS can do that.
More likely, to rent a great player for less than a year and a half the Braves gave up Salty and their best position prospect(Andrus). They may have given up their best arm (Feliz) and another pitching propsect (Harrison) who has the chance to be solid.
Lets compare this to the 1993 trade: the Braves gave up 2 prospects of worth (Nieves and Elliot–neither with upsides of Feliz, Salty or Andrus) and Moore to get Fred McGriff who was then a cornerstone of the team for several years. With this deal the Braves are giving up twice as much and unless they re-sign Teixera they are not getting very much beyond 2008.
I hope that Teixera is brilliant, fits in, improves Andruw, helps us win the NL East race, the Divisional Playoffs, and the World Series in 2007 and 2008.
With those achievements, I will not complain when Boras takes him to Baltimore….
Alex,
At least in the DC area, we get the 19 games the Braves play with the Nats. Plus, with the smattering of games against the O’s, Cubs, and the ESPN games and the occasional TBS Sunday game, I bet we will end up with at least 30 Braves games. It could be worse. My wife would kill me if I even thought about getting the MLB package. (:
Yes–I can tell you exactly how often I turn on the Nats on MASN–when they play the Braves in Atlanta or here in Washington and I can’t make it to the game.
I never think to turn on the Nats at any other time. It’s Braves baseball for me at all times or I simply don’t watch. It’s why I have dropped out of all Fantasy Baseball leagues I was in…I don’t care enough about other players or teams, outside of the Braves.
Marc,
My wife hates Baseball and did kill me for getting the MLB package last year. I told her I have been watching the Braves regularly since I was 5 years old and I can’t change my habits now. Sorry.
Even with our first child on the way this November, I may have to budge on other things but my son will become a Braves fan at birth 🙂
No, Arroyo doesn’t set the world on fire, but a pitcher who eats more than 200 innings a year with an ERA below league average is a valuable comodity. Also, note his ERA home/road splits this year:
home: 5.19
away: 3.70
I’m not sure how much validity this trade rumor has, but I say go for it.
The home ERA only further proves what a horrible bandbox Cincy is–and how wrong I obviously was about Aaron Harang.
Alex, glad to hear you admit that
Has the Tex deal been finalized yet or are they still reviewing the med records. We need them here by tonight. Also has Pena been called up to replace Woodward yet
I just like baseball and I enjoy having a team here. I try to support the Nats as much as I can although I would never root for them against the Braves. The more games I go to in person, the more I appreciate how much better baseball is in person than on TV. Frankly, I enjoy going to non-Braves games at RFK more, especially considering how badly the Braves play up here, because I can join the crowd in rooting for the Nats.
Arroyo might step up a bit if he feels like he is playing for a team with a legit shot to go deep in the playoffs. Which, thanks to JS seems all the more plausible.
Alex,
My wife is thanking god that TBS will no longer carry the Braves. If your wife complains about you, tell her that I got married during the 1991 World Series (who the hell expected the Braves to be in the Series that year) and on our honeymoon to San Francisco, I stayed in the hotel to watch Game 7 while my wife and her cousin went to see a play.
I grew up a Braves fan because of TBS. I live in Southern Indiana and personally the entire TBS thing is a thorn in my side. I’ll be watching a lot of box scores instead of actual games for the foreseeable future. 🙁
Marc, the seems fair to me. Your wife should understand. As far as the Nats are concerned, I want to root for them being from Richmond, but they are in the same division as the Braves. So I’m torn, I don’t want them to be too good. As long as they lose to everyone but the Mets and Phils I’m ok.
Alex, credit where credit’s due: you’ve shown an admirable ability to own up to a mistake.
For full disclosure, I thought getting Craig Wilson and Mark Redman was a great idea.
I live in Virginia Beach, and I want to like the Nats too -I just wish they were in the AL East instead.
There’s no way I’m getting the MLB package anytime soon. I don’t even have digital cable right now. So my Braves-watching will be seriously curtailed next season.
As for having young kids – just make sure they have an early bedtime. My kids are in bed by 8, so I don’t miss much of the game.
Baseball talk radio in Atlanta is decent if you know where to look.
680 has about a half hour dedicated to baseball with Bill Shanks in the afternoons. Baseball topics also work their way into the regular programming in the afternoon show as well.
790 has Chris Dimino who has great historical perspective on the National Pasttime, but he focuses alot on the past and many teams other than the Braves.
Both stations expand their coverage on the days of home games, I believe.
Admittedly, Vick is dominating the airwaves right now.
Well, thumbs up for the most part on 790am here in Atlanta. At least they acknowledge that baseball exists and discuss it. However, they didn’t help themselves when one of the first things they talked about was how Atlanta wasn’t excited about the Tex trade, like we didn’t realize how big it was. What horseshit. Any true fan of baseball in Atlanta realizes how big this move is, whether they like it or not.
So Tex, Dotel, and maybe Arroyo? Is that what we are looking at?
Why cant JS make other trades until Texy deal is done? Is that constraint placed on him by Liberty Media or MLB?
from MLBTR:
“The Mets are also talking to the Reds; could’ve been about Ken Griffey Jr. or David Weathers. From what we’ve heard, though, Weathers is not available. And would Junior approve a trade to the Mets? He vetoed a trade there once before.”
The Tex deal still isn’t officially official?
Rip – I imagine he needs to know what players are available for other trades. Since the Tex deal is still slightly iffy on one of the two pitchers to be included, he’ll need to know exactly who is going before trading further players.
La Velle E. Neal III of the Minneapolis Star-Tribune mentions the Cubs, Braves, Mets, and Diamondbacks as teams that like Silva. He could be used as a starter or reliever.
from mlbtraderumors.com
AAR, csg-
Thank you for saying that–I really think there are no geniuses in here, we are all wrong and we are all right. But we should always be willing to admit mistakes. Frankly, I am always happy to be wrong if it means the Braves are winning 🙂
I kept looking at Harang’s career ERA and frankly, the droopy hang dog, stoner face resembling Alfred Molina wasn’t helping his case–ha. lesson learned.
But watching him pitching at the Ted, yeah, he obviously has ace potential.
Marc-
Wow, that 91 story is telling! I know of 2 similar experiences that echo that.
First, I was at a wedding in October of 2004 in Philly (the wife was from there) and the husband was a die hard Red Sox fan from CT. The infamous David Ortiz game winning Game 4, extra innings affairs against the Yankees was during his rehearsal dinner; my friend then proceeded to spend his entire honeymoon in his hotel room to watch the Red Sox and Cardinals.
My wife, a few months prior to meeting me, has told me the story of the wedding she went to in Phoenix—in October of 2001. Yeah, Game 7 of the D’Backs and Yankees was literally happening during the reception and my wife told me that half the wedding party and guests were at the bar watching the game.
It’s stories like this that led to my wedding taking place in August of 2004. 🙂
Not a big fan and with not many starters on the block, someone will overpay
Cubs, Braves, D’Backs, Mets Interested In Carlos Silva
According to Phil Rogers of the Chicago Tribune, the Cubs have some interest in adding Twins’ starter Carlos Silva for some rotation insurance. Despite the lack of strikeouts, I think Silva could put up an ERA below 4.50 in the NL Central.
La Velle E. Neal III of the Minneapolis Star-Tribune mentions the Cubs, Braves, Mets, and Diamondbacks as teams that like Silva. He could be used as a starter or reliever.
Coeherd is a pompous blowhard who doesn’t know nearly as much as he likes to tell you he does. I’ll listen to him when I want a good excuse to yell at my radio, though.
Arroyo would be a great acquisition. Like JoeyT, I think the chances we get him are not high.
Good to see we still haven’t made the Davies/Dotel mistake. Come on, just hold out another 4.5 hours!
Alex R. – that reminds me of a wedding I had to go to some years back where the bride and groom somehow scheduled it on the same day and at the same time as the GA/FLA game. Being a Dawg, I did my best to keep up during the reception but was finally forced to leave altogether when the one TV we had in the bar was forced off.
Never, ever schedule a wedding in the state of Georgia or Florida on that day (or any other during the SEC football season, frankly.)
I really dont see us getting Dotel, unless its like a Thorman/Acosta or a Thorman/Blanco/low A prospect type deal. I dont think the Braves org is willing to give up on Davies just yet. Dont know why…
To fellow Virginians-
Personally, I am thrilled the Nats are an NL team for a few reasons.
First and most importantly, my beloved Braves come visit me 9 or 10 times a year.
Second, I am a national league 100% and I HATE the American League. I hate BORING American League Baseball. Even if it means I am watching a team that’s a Braves rival, so be it. I get NL Baseball.
Third, if my wife & I decide to stay in the DC area long term (and that’s up in the air next year), I am happy knowing there’s a local MLB team I can take my child too. (and happy that Director of Sales is a friend of mine 😉
Ideally, the Braves would win the east every year and the Nats would win the WC, every year.
Andy,
Yes–my wife and I are planning to be very strict about setting early bed times. I know people who still don’t get any sleep and their kids are 4 and 5 because they didn’t set strict bed time rules early on.
If the Rangers don’t ever get their freaking physicals done it might not matter.
I’m very happy to have Tex and Mahay. Dotel would be a plus especially if getting him means Davies delenda est. If we can get Arroyo without giving up Escobar or Lillibridge, I’d be for that. I’m not sold on Reyes as a future star pitcher, so maybe Reyes, Thorman, and Woodward for Arroyo? 😉
Cormier watch….after his complete game the other day he followed up with this
7IP 6h 2er 0bb 6k’s
his last 4 starts 3-1
29IP 23H 3ER 7BB (0BB last two starts) 17k’s
Sorry, Stu, count me in the crowd in favor of being able to get anything for a stiff like Kyle Frakking Davies.
Yeah braves14 – who is the Dr. doing those physicals…Dr. Nick?
I think Woodward would clear waivers if dumped, meaning no teams want him and dont want him included in a trade for one of their best pieces
Ron, no one, not even Woodward’s parents, would want Chris Woodward.
Coz-
You mean Dr. Nick Riviera?
“Hi everybody…”
Heeeeeeeey, everybody!
“HI EVERYBODY!”
Hey Tex, turn your head and cough
Coz,
Are you referring to Dr. Nick of the SImpsons or the Dr. Nick who prescribed all of Elvis’ (Presley, not Andrus) drugs.
Whoops, thought it was “Hey” there for a second.
I think the Braves will manage without Tex.
Must be a long wait at the Doctor’s office.
Odds of landing Arroyo: 5-10%
Odds of landing Arroyo without including Escobar or Lillibridge in the deal: 0%
Alex,
I already knew to count you in the crowd that’s given up on a 23 year-old starter with 3 quality pitches (albeit location and head issues) in favor of an expensive reliever who’s proven completely incapable of staying healthy for any measurable period of time.
okay Im thinking its time to put Boyer back in the pen at AAA, his starting numbers are awful
last game
.2IP 3H 4ER 2BB 0K
last 7 starts
32IP 38H 19ER 23BB 30K
SpiralStairs – Dr. Nick of the Simpsons.
Yeah, csg, the move to the rotation confused me in the first place. He was never any good as a starter and started having success only after being moved to the ‘pen. I love Blaine, by the way.
Yeah, csg, Boyer concerns me. I remember he wasn’t even doing well at Double A as a starter 2 years ago before being converted into a reliever basically at the major league level.
I’d do it Stu if it ment we could settle our pen down and go on a deep run in the playoffs. Bobby is not a big fan of Davies anyways.
Well, gosh, Stu, when you put it that way…Davies still stinks. have we been watching the same pitcher?
Joe Morgan strikes again:
Joe Morgan: (11:23 AM ET ) No, there are better lineups than the Braves–the Tigers, the Mets. He may help their lineup, but it doesn’t make them the best.
I owe Stu a coke
Can’t wait to read the JoeChat at Fire Joe Morgan.
I’d stack the Braves’ regular lineup with Teixeira against the Mets and Tigers anyday.
Stinks or not, Davies has clearly worn out his welcome to Bobby Cox. He may have talent left in him, but I doubt Bobby has any interest in seeing. Thus we would do best to get as much as we possibly can while we still can. I’d prefer to use Davies to get a starter if at all possible, but if all we can get is Dotel then so be it.
The Braves are not the best TEAM, but they sure as hell have a dynamite batting order now.
Whether we have the best lineup or not is inconsequential; plus, who cares what a dolt like Joe Morgan thinks anyway? (oh yeah, Tony).
All I care about is that Teixeira has just made the Braves infinitely better.
I’m completely unconvinced that Dotel settles the pen down. If we were getting Nathan or K-Rod, fine, but this is someone with a 1.50+ WHIP who cannot stay healthy. Which isn’t to say I wouldn’t give up Thorman or Blanco or Acosta for him.
Davies’ stuff is average to above average. If he had location he’d be fine. Too bad it doesn’t look like he can develop it. Sayonara.
Stu,
I would still like the deal to be Davies/Thorman for Dotel/Grienke, but as mentioned before, I would take Gobble/Grienke in that exchange.
The Braves have already scored more runs than the Mets. How can the addition of Teixeira not make them better?
The Phillies’ run total is skewed by their outrageous homeballpark. The Braves now have the best lineup in the NL, by far.
I’ve said that Teixeira isn’t enough, but I get a little miffed when a Mets fan says it. Is there anything wrong with me? *laughs*
@145 it’s because guys like Joe Morgan look at the Braves and don’t see a Lead-Off Hitter (Registered Trademark) and he falls in love with a guy like Jose Reyes (the most exciting player in baseball). Anyone else notice that’s ESPN’s new slogan – “Jose Reyes, the most exciting player in baseball.”
From the world-revolves-around-the-Yankees/Red Sox Dept:
“Frank (Red Sox Nation): Just throwing it out there — Any chance Theo Epstein pulls a shocker and sends Crisp and a top-tier Pitching Prospect (Masterson, Bowden?) to Atlanta for Andruw Jones?
SportsNation Jonah Keri: (10:59 AM ET ) I’d be very surprised if he did that. Not impossible, but it’d be a shock. Without stopping to pore through UZR, Davenport numbers et al, I’d guess that coco might be a better defensive player than Andruw at this point. Crisp has been hitting better after a slow start, and the Sox really value their good, young pitching.
That’d be a fun one, though, no doubt.”
1. Andruw’s 10/5 and is not getting traded
2. As bad as he has been, he’s still hitting better than Coco
Alex,
Good luck with setting those strict bedtime schedules! We never had much success with that.
I’m living in Kansas City right now and can tell you that Greinke would cost you Escobar, at least. I also doubt thorman/acosta would get it done for Dotel, despite his WHIP. Its a sellers market. Put it this way, if you could either have that pair or Wladimir Balentien, which would you pick.
Exactly. Dayton isn’t stupid. He probably likes Davies from his time in Atlanta and thinks a consistent chance to start without pressure might fix him. I mean, imagine how we would react now if Glavine was pitching out his first big league season this year. Some times it takes guys a few years.
Parish,
I’d be fine with that. It’s not that I think Davies is some uber-prospect—it’s that I don’t think you trade young starters with upside for broken-down relievers.
braves14,
“Too bad he doesn’t look like he can develop it.”
He’s 23!
re: sports talk radio in ATL
Moving back to Atlanta from Boston, I knew there’d be a drop off in baseball coverage on the radio. I mean, the Red Sox fans are pretty much psycho and even in the off-season they dominate the radio. Everyone who works for the station is also a nutbag for their team.
That brings me to part of the problem with Atlanta sports radio. I’ve had a few e-mail exchanges with the guys on 790’s morning show because I finally lost my cool when they wouldn’t shut up about how Turner Field turned into Fenway South earlier this season. They were right but they just wouldn’t let it rest, saying that Braves fans “sit on their hands and only open their yapper when fans from other cities attend games and actually bring some energy to the game…”
I told them that they were part of the problem. They openly admit, not only are they transplants, they’re fans of other teams. Mike Bell is a Mets fan. That would never, and I mean never, happen at WEEI in Boston. It drives me batty. I can’t believe that 790 can’t bring in one person who is a true Braves fan from Atlanta.
For the most part, the 790 morning guys do a good job. They have several Braves on in the morning, McCann and Smoltz once a week. Frenchy and Kelly Johnson are on quite a bit as well. They attend a bunch of games and help get Braves info to the community. But it’s just not the same. I could only imagine what someone like an Alex R, Mac, Stu, Smitty etc. would bring to the table if they had a platform like those guys have.
In the afternoon, if you want to hear baseball, go with 680. Buck and Kincaid will talk about the Braves a good bit.
Overall, neither are A+’s for the Braves or baseball fan, but it’s something. Buck and Kincaid do love giving the Mets a hard time. That’s always fun. Unfortunately, that stopped last year. Let’s hope they can bring out their “Beat the Mets” song soon.
comparing the lineups
Reyes
Castillo
Beltran
Delgado
Wright
Green
Milledge
Lo Duca
vs
Harris
Renteria
Jones
Tex
Jones
McCann
Francouer
KJ
I only give them Reyes and Wright over our hitters. Right now you can take out Beltran and that makes them even weaker
Joel Pineiro traded to the Cardinals for CASH MONEY
Sorry, other way around. Pineiro and CASH MONEY traded to Cardinals for PTBNL
To remain a reliever or be worked into the rotation, JoeyT?
I hate the Mets as much as anyone, but when Reyes is hot there isnt a better leadoff hitter. Ill give them that much, but nothing more
In the afternoon, if you want to hear baseball, go with 680. Buck and Kincaid will talk about the Braves a good bit.
Not for the past few weeks, they haven’t. It’s all Vick all the time. Ugh.
BTW, JoeyT, welcome back. I was just saying a week or two ago that I hadn’t seen you around in quite a while.
Mets v. Braves by EQA:
Reyes .295
Castillo .252
Beltran .288
Delgado .267
Wright .311
Green .259
Milledge .273
LoDuca .242
Harris/Diaz .291/.292
Renteria .305
Chipper .346
Teixeira .306
Andruw .264
McCann .264
Francouer .272
KJ .299
Betemit to the Yanks for Proctor.
ESPN reporting:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2955753
I understand the Torre has potentially destroyed and ruined Proctor’s arm, but why do they need Betemit this year? I understand the potential replacement for A-rod, but the Yanks need relievers, right? Don’t they plan on getting rid of Farnsworth too? Who else do they have other than the unproven Chamberlain?
Stu,
What do you say we do with Davies? I’ll be honest, he may be 23 and has 3 good pitches, but he stinks dude. How much time do you want to pour into this guy? Do you want him to develop at the major league level, or send him down to AAA? I suppose if we could send him to AAA, I’d say don’t trade him, but I don’t know if they’re going to do that. Might as well just get him out of here. Dotel’s a good option.
*double take Coke spit* How the hell can Harris have that high an EQA?!
The Braves have the advantage there, no bout adout it.
Hate King,
You know, that’s a pretty funny trade.
Rob,
Davies has been at AAA for a few weeks now. I’d leave him there.
#150, But this isn’t Davies’ first big league season. It’s his third approximately. In Glavine’s third season, he had a 3.68 ERA. If Davies was doing what Glavine did at a similar point in his career, nobody would have any issues with him and he wouldn’t be in Richmond on the verge of being traded for a rental relief pitcher.
#151, What upside? Davies is statistically among the worst starting pitchers ever in all of baseball history. Let some other team try to find the upside in that.
Ron,
He was obviously rushed to begin with and, unlike Glavine, has had to learn under pressure to win.
Davies still has value. We can use it before his value goes away.
Dotel’s nothing special, but he’s a useful pitcher.
I’m starting to get a little worried about the Tex trade. Is something going to make this fall through?
His name is Hiram. I think we will be okay without him.
This is getting ridiculous with the Rangers’ physicals BTW. I mean, what the fuck? They may be done dealing, but we’re not. How about a little common courtesy instead of holding it up until the goddam deadline!
We’ll be ok without Jason Heyward and Tommy Hanson, too, but that doesn’t mean you trade them for dimes on the dollar.
I don’t see how. Teixeira already passed his physical. It’s just a matter of the Rangers picking another pitcher if they don’t want Harrison.
My willingness to trade Davies is that I believe a year from now it will be seen as selling high.
I agree with you there, Nick. As badly as I want the deadline to pass without giving Davies away for Dotel, this apparent lack of professionalism on the part of the Rangers is ticking me off. Partly our fault for making the stupid list, though. Shoulda been like, “It’s Harrison or Dan Smith (for example), if Harrison’s physical doesn’t look clean.” Instead, we tie up our whole farm system waiting on them.
Parish,
Do you have some inside scoop on Davies’ psychological evaluations? Because his problem is mental, not physical, and I don’t see how you can just assume that a 23 year-old won’t get mentally tougher with some work.
Do trades have to be finalized by the deadline, or just agreed to?
With the off day that we had, do you think there is any chance of skipping Reyes’ start? The Braves site doesnt have a PP for the Astros on thursday
James vs Sampson
Carlyle vs Rodriguez
Reyes VS ??
I’m pretty sure just agreed to, dans.
And I don’t think we’d skip Reyes because we would want Smoltz to get the extra day of rest. Although I guess theoretically we could move Hudson up one and have Smoltz pitch in Hudson’s place.
or do you hope that Reyes can shut down Carlos Lee and Lance Berkman….Im glad that Hunter Pence is still on the DL
Any official word on whether Teix will be in tonight’s lineup? Or was that earlier word the official word?
Good question, dans. Does anyone know for sure if trades have to be finalized or just agreed to before 4:00 EST? This Rangers hold-up is ridiculous.
And just out of curiosity, who would everyone prefer we landed: Arroyo or Silva?
If we had to choose I would take Arroyo without blinking an eye.
Yeah, Arroyo, and it’s not even close.
not even remotely
On Davies declining value, it’s more about an existing trend than an inside scoop on his mental state, which clearly neither you or I have.
If you haven’t already, check out bronsonarroyo.com
The Rangers are shitting the bed on this trade. Get the f— physicals done! Daniels is hurting himself in future deals if he keeps holding it up, but he probably won’t be around to have this come back and hurt him, unfortunatley.
Beltran’s down: (nymets.com)
An MRI taken Sunday morning on Beltran’s strained left oblique revealed small amounts of fluid, signaling an abdominal tear. The Mets will continue to monitor Beltran’s situation before their next game on Tuesday, at which point they could place their center fielder on the DL.
From Yahoo! sports
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/mlb_experts/post/Dodgers-Yankees-agree-to-Betemit-for-Proctor-de?urn=mlb,40914
As the deadline approaches, the Braves and Rangers continued to digest the medical information on the six players involved. One source insisted neither deal was in jeopardy, and the delay was simply a matter of exchanging information.
If one or more of the players fails a physical exam, the Braves and Rangers could rework the trade, or the Rangers might be forced to take Teixeira back on the market. That seems unlikely, however.
If the Tex trade did fall through, I would be glad we had not made those other deals, because it would certainly not be enough. In that case, it would be best iof we run with what we brung.
The deal ain’t going to fall through. Sheesh.
This has been a pretty boring trade deadline day. I was expecting fireworks throughout the early afternoon.
The only players who could force this deal to fall through by failing physicals are Tex and Salty, and I think we got a report yesterday that Tex had passed. And Salty hasn’t played in a week. I really don’t see any problems.
It’s been quiet for a while but I expect another flurry before long. I have a feeling the names won’t be very exciting though, except Dotel of course!
Atrophy could have set in on Salty’s muscles.
Although it would be interesting to see how it would be resolved if Mahay failed his physical.
From what I hear, it’s all on Harrison. Anyway, the delay doesn’t hurt the Braves any, really, while the Rangers would pretty much have to accept the deal at this point because there’s no chance to shop Teixeira elsewhere before the deadline.
It doesn’t stop us from making other deals, Mac? Or is the Dotel-for-Davies deal done whenever we want it? At the very least, it seems like it stops us from having time to go after Arroyo.
I’ve understood that the Braves cannot make any further deals until the Tex for Salty deal is finalized. That should have happened by noon today. I don’t know that there is any cause to worry, but I don’t like the feet dragging. Regardless, I imagine JS is still working the phones.
Wouldn’t it be nice to still have Wilson Betemit around to either use instead of Woodward or trade for relief help like LA apparently just did? Whatever happened to Willie Aybar anyway? He can’t still be in drug rehab can he?
Jayson Stark reports the Mets really want Eric Gagne and Chad Cordero. Neither of them is a world-beater, but I’m hoping they fall short.
The update from Yahoo! said neither the Teixeira or Dotel deal were in jeopardy. So if it’s not holding up Dotel, then it might only be hurting us with Arroyo. I think that deal is a real longshot anyways.
Stu,
We’ve invested so much ML time in Davies (with so little to show) that by the time he finally does turn it around, he’ll be FA-eligible. I’m just as confident as you that he will someday, I just don’t think he’ll do it within the window we can cost-control him. Thus, I’m fine with trading him for Dotel.
Olney says the Mets have given up on Gagne (who scares me) and shifted their focus to aggressively pursue Cordero (who doesn’t scare me at all). Let’s hpoe they give up Milledge or Pelfrey or Gomez or some combination thereof.
Yeah, and come to think of it, none of the rumors have had it involving any of the people involved in the Tex trade, so there should be nothing stopping us from reaching an agreement on that if we’re going to do it, I guess. Coz is right, we can still work deals out, we just can’t close them until we get this Tex thing figured out.
Here’s a question: Do you think Tex is already in Atlanta or did they hold him back in Dallas just in case?
Who starts for the Yankees at 3B next year: ARod or Betemit?
didnt the Nats say today that Cordero would NOT be traded to the Mets or Detroit?
Neither
I think they threw Aybar’s drug riddled body in a dumpster and lit it on fire last week.
the mets wont get Gagne or Cordero because they severely overvalue their prospects… and omar is cocky enough to think that he can win the east with his current players.
My only guess is that Davies is one of the players that Texas can choose from if Harrison is indeed hurt. If we have completely given up on Davies wouldnt we hope thats the case and he is included over Harrison?
Chuck G,
We have him for 3 more years, right? I’m confident he’ll be able to contribute at the ML before that time’s up. And he won’t be making big arbitration dollars as long as he’s not contributing.
Well no csg, because we want to trade him for Dotel. If that weren’t the case, I suppose the answer would be yes.
That’s an either/or unfortunately, Stu. Davies either contributes enough to stay on a ML roster (and thus gets to arb. and FA) or he doesn’t and thus can be signed cheaply (by clubs hopefully not named Braves.) Either way, God knows he’s been given chance after chance in Atlanta. It ain’t happening here, and that’s if it ever happens at all.
csg,
harrison has been less than great this year, many think he hurt himself in camp this year and hid his injury after. i’d rather see him go to texas and use davies to get us another arm.
csg,
Rob Neyer speculated that what you said could indeed be the hold-up.
The Rangers need to make up their freaking mind! So Harrison has a sore shoulder. Do you want him or not? If not, take someone else and get on with it! Jeez
BA is reporting that the Rangers could substitute Davies for Harrison if they’re not satisfied with the health of his shoulder. They’re attributing the source of it to the AJC, but I don’t remember Davies to the Rangers mentioned there.
If the Rangers end up taking Davies, then the Royals could end up asking for Brandon Jones (as previously reported).
Who would you rather give up: Harrison or Jones?
The Davies as a possibility to the Rangers makes sense, if it is the reason why the Dotel trade is in a holding pattern.
Either way, though, Coz, we’ll have him cheaply for a couple years, right?
Harrison…
Personally if I were the Rangers, I think I’d want a sore-shouldered Harrison over Davies at this point, but maybe that’s just me. It ain’t like the Rangers have a track record of saving pitchers’ careers. A sore shoulder is better than a basket case, especially since they weren’t planning on getting someone to help them this year, anyway, if they were getting Harrison.
I would agree with the sentiments that no self respecting GM is going to continue to deal with a moron like Jon Daniels if he keeps taking this much time. JS should have given him a time deadline.
It’s very hard to get the other trades done if Daniels won’t be official already on Harrison or no Harrison. Yeesh.
Re: Davies
I am not convinced he’ll ever get his act together but fine, I might be wrong. It’s just as others have said–he’s been given tons of chances to show SOMETHING here in Atlanta and he continues to show less than nothing.
I dont really think that we need harrison, we have two other just like him in James and Reyes. I hope the deal goes through just like it is, however, Dotel doesnt excite me either way. JS needs to be on them to make sure that Tex is in ATL tonight. Pena has to be called up today sometime, any word on that?
Nick-
Totally agree with you…I would rather have Matt Harrison than Kyle Davies.
Cheaply, Stu, but his value grows less and less as time moves on. The view of other GMs will lesson the longer it takes for him to get it together. And right now, his only real value to the Braves is what he can bring back. Thankfully, Davies’ value is not yet 0. But it ain’t far from there.
The private Braves plane BETTER be sitting on a tarmac in Dallas right now with the pilots having a soda.
I hope Tex has his bags packed.
Well, if Tex isn’t here yet, it should be easy. A straight swap of Salty’s roster spot for Pena’s.
I don’t think Brandon Jones is going to Kansas City even if Davies goes to Texas. KC would probably got another starter.
All DOB reported was that if the Rangers aren’t satisfied with Harrison’s shoulder that they can pick another pitcher from a group that doesn’t include Reyes. I imagine Davies is in that group.
Well if Tex isnt here yet then I guess Salty would be so no harm done. However if the deal goes through at 4 pm or something like that then how quick can Pena get here?
I dont trade brandon jones for Dotel!!
Same here – count me among those who would love to somehow keep Harrison and send Davies packing. Only problem is…where does that put us with the other trades? If Davies was supposed to go to KC for Dotel (or somewhere else for another starter) then who do we put in his place once he gets included in the Texas deal?
mlbtraderumors.com says the Braves are offering Reyes for Arroyo.
Here is a link.
http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/redsinsider/2007/07/deadline-nears.asp
I’m sorry but the picture of the Georgia fan on the front page at ajc.com is too much.
Well if he was just on the list but the Rangers weren’t really interested, you’d think JS would’ve gotten them to remove him from the list by now so that we could use him.
do we want Dotel for a 1.5 month rental? Didnt the Rangers say that they wanted to watch Harrison pitch SEVERAL times before they would make their decision. If that’s the case the deal should be done and they can make their decision later. Screw the Dotel deal i just want Tex here
@ Zach:
If davies does go to the Rangers, then what other starter would the Royals look for? Hanson or Smith?
Let’s hope Harrison passes the physical and goes to the Rangers and Davies goes to the Royals. Otherwise, we might be parting with more prospects
Reyes for Arroyo? YES!!!
Hopefully Mahay fails his physical and the Rangers have to substitute CJ Wilson instead.
Dan Smith is the most logical choice in my mind. I would much rather part with Harrison and Davies which I think is the much more likely scenerio.
@242
The article also says the Braves will probably have to add another prospect.
Wow… sounds like Shuerholz got the message from last year. Buy, buy, buy.
Honestly, I haven’t heard a single deal of all these that I don’t support. I like the Teixeira trade a lot, I like Davies for Dotel, and if we could get Arroyo for Reyes, I’d be happy. One of the three will probably fall through, and that’s fine too. Pitching prospects are made to be traded. The bottom falls out of them quicker than beer through a skeleton.
Ken Rosenthal is reporting that Gagne is on the verge of going to the Red Sox.
Kurkjian was just on ESPN radio and verified that the Braves are making a strong push for Arroyo. Said Reyes and Thorman are two names he’s hearing.
I won’t miss Davies at all, but the fact that Dayton Moore is willing to take him instead of some of the other offers made for Dotel makes me think that I’m underestimating Davies.
I bet the list to choose from is not the long, but would probably include Davies.
If everyone is going go-go and ga-ga over young, cheap pitching, I have no problem trading our young cheap pitchers that don’t necessarily project to be big league regulars, especially if they have decent numbers in the minors. Davies and Harrison will likely never have an impact on the major league level, and I haven’t seen much from Jo-Jo.
I do like JS keeping Jo-Jo out of any deal for Teixeira, hopefully other teams noticed and believe the Braves perceived value of Jo-Jo is much higher. I would definitely trade Jo-Jo for Arroyo.
Well, maybe the Tex deal is done then and they just haven’t gotten around to announcing it yet.
Coz,
I think it’s way off base to suggest that Kyle’s value is close to nothing.
If it’s true that Ben Francisco was his best offer outside of Atlanta, then he may have not had much of a choice.
is it wierd that i was uneasy about jojo for arroyo but when someone said we would throw in thorman i got really excited about the deal?
Stu,
I think it’s safe to say that Davies’ value has gotten progressively worse every time he’s taken the mound. He just got pounded down at Richmond.
Sell now.
Alright, earlier I was opposed to Arroyo because I don’t want us to trade everything of value. But, if we center a package around Jo-Jo and Thor to get Arroyo then I might hop on board. As for Davies/Dotel, well I’m not real sure about that one. Dotel has a player option that he may not exercise so he is a rental. Davies is also at the bottom of his value and trading Low is never all too good. I guess the question from the Braves minds must be whether they will ever be able to get any more out of Davies.
Yeah…that doesn’t make much sense logically, Keith, heh.
Keith,
I don’t think it’s just you because I did the exact same thing.
Thorman would fit right into Cincinnati’s hodgepodge of useless players.
I’m sensing a strong push not only for this year but for next year as well. Several player’s contracts will expire after 2008: Chipper, Smoltz, Renteria, Teixiera, Hampton. So too does that of Arroyo if we acquire him. Is this the final push for the JS/cox regime? it appears so.
what about Thor/Reyes/Paronto or Yates
Jeremy,
There’s at least one GM who’s still relatively high on Davies (Moore), and the fact that guys like Keith Law still see him as valuable tells me that there are likely other GMs out there who feel the same way.
That said, I won’t try to convince anyone about Davies anymore. I’ll quietly be very disappointed if he’s traded for Dotel, though.
Maybe Dayton Moore thinks he can get the Braves job when Schuerholtz retires, so he’s giving the Braves a better team.
Kidding
The physicals still aren’t being reported as done. WTF
The physicals still aren’t being reported as done. WTF
Trace, we can only hope that Moore GM and Yost manager will come in after JS and Cox
That would be the best we could hope for.
By the way, following the poll, what do you all think have been Schuerholz’s best trades since 1991?
Here’s a try:
1. McGriff for Nieves, Elliott, and Moore
2. Hudson for Meyer, Cruz, and Thomas
3. Soriano for Ramirez
4. Marte for Renteria and lots of $
5. LaRoche and Romak for Gonzalez and Lillibridge
6. Sheffield for Jordan, Perez, and Brown
7. Alejandro Pena for Tony Castillo and Joe Roa
8. Wickman for Ramirez
9. Tex and Mahay for Salty, Andrus, Feliz and ?
Tex is not in Dallas .. he is in Cleveland for a 7:05 pm game ..I would say this late that it would be difficult to get him here to play tonight if its not announced soon …..
From DOB
Still NOTHING. Royals waiting for Braves to call, and other teams being held up because they’re in running for Dotel, and if they think they can get him they’re not going to pull trigger on trade for another reliever, etc, etc.
Braves can’t do anything until Rangers sign off on deal. Not going to collapse: Y’all don’t worry about that. But until Texas signs off on Harrison, Braves can’t trade Davies.
AAR, I’d say it’s too early to call on the LaRoche deal. Other than that and the Teixeira deal, I’d more or less agree.
Mets have offered Humber for Cordero
Stu, I understand the way you feel about Davies. I felt that way the first couple years of seeing him in Atlanta too. Lots of potential, an occasionally great hammer and pretty good fastball. But he has no command whatsoever, and it’s gotten worse since he was first brought up.
Dayton Moore was part of the front office that drafted him, so he’s clearly better disposed toward Kyle than another GM who only has the raw (terrible) numbers and scouting reports to look at.
I wish Kyle all the best, and hope he blossoms. But like Bruce Chen, Jason Marquis, and Odalis Perez, all of whom were given ample chances over several years to succeed, he likely won’t live up to his potential with the club that brought him up. He needs a new start. Maybe Kansas City’s the right place for it to happen.
AAR, I think your list shows us that we shouldnt overreact when JS makes a deal. It doesnt look like we lost out much on any of those deals and the farm is still in good order. JS keep it up
Stu,
I’m not thrilled with a Davies/Dotel trade either. That said, I’ve soured on Davies to the point where I say just get something useful for him, which Dotel very modestly is.
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/jmhoward/IgzlbQ9I.jpg
Our new first baseman.
I think you have the right top four. I’d say McGriff 1, Renteria 2, Hudson 3, Soriano 4, though. And Wickman should probably be a little bit higher.
I also think the Farnsworth trade is somewhat underrated because of how spectacularly horrible his last game with us was. We gave the Tigers precisely squat and got a closer that was reliable and helped us make the playoffs that year. We got what we wanted and it was a very good deal at the time.
AAR,
You’re not saying anything the other members of the “Trade Davies” crowd haven’t. I understand the arguments, I just don’t agree with them.
I should also point out that Marquis and Perez were used to acquire RF sluggers who moved Chipper Jones out of the third spot in the order, not a reliever with a fragile arm.
how much more revenue will the Braves generate if they get Tex, Dotel, and Arroyo. You have to think sales will go up and merchandise revenue will sky rocket
I dunno about merchandise, csg, but we’ll make more $ off those playoff tickets…
Assuming the deadline is 4:00 EST, what are the odds of JS pulling off a trade for Arroyo and Dotel considering the time it took to finalize the Teixeira trade?
FWIW, it seems that Gagne may be going to Boston after all.
In response to the picture posted a few minutes ago: it is troubling that Tex has the Tyler Hansbrough open mouth syndrome, but I think I’ll take it.
Rangers need to hurry up.
And don’t forget the money off of Arroyo concert tickets (lololololol)
My sources are telling me that the Texy deal is being stalled b/c the deal must be approved by George W Bush.
We may be here six years waiting on this one as he apparently doesnt like timetables and is usually on vacation.
As much as it pains me to say it, I actually would rather have 8 more years of Bud Selig as baseball commissioner than any length of time with W as commish.
I’ve always been partial to the McGriff and Sheffield trades. When you can get proven sluggers in their primes without giving up anything major, that’s brilliant. Granted, Sheff was on here for two years and was a dog in the postseason, I still think that was a great trade.
Another one of Schuerholz’s trades that goes unnoticed is Rocker to Cleveland for Karsay and Reed. Those guys were both fabulous in the pen in a year when the Braves won the division by 2 games. Rocker was out of the league in 3 years.
A more interesting list might be his top 5 worst. I can only think of three he made that were completely horrible at the moment:
Lofton and Embree for Grissom and Justice
Tucker and Lockhart for Dye and whoever else
Veras and Sanders for Klesko and Boone (although to be honest, it’s not like the Padres came out smelling like a rose here either)
Rocker fell off a cliff as soon as he left. The Braves knew something.
Jeremy,
Again, you’ve given us further proof why we should a) trust JS on trades and B) not fret over these guys we are dealing since the vast majority of them never seem to work out for other teams.
they knew he was a bigoted a$$hole, that’s good enough for me.
I’m getting REALLY worried now. If the trade isn’t done until the deadline, we’re not going to have enough firepower to get far into the playoffs.
Jon Daniels is seriously interfering with our future here. Did y’all hear Stark on ESPN? “The Rangers are busy and still haven’t had time to completely sign off on the medical records.”
Are you kidding me? Completely unprofessional. I’m fuming.
I’m getting pissed off too. Thanks to Daniels, the Braves aren’t going to be able to win the division.
According to the Yahoo blog, JS is shopping Wickman whom, if he finds something, he will trade once he gets Dotel which will happen once the Rangers get off their asses.
JS Dominoes!
Apparently we are shopping Bob Wickman now.
We can’t trade him if Daniels doesn’t sign off on the deal! I’m really starting to get pissed!
Busy??? Holy shit!!! I know one team we’re never dealing with again.
Wickman to the Rangers for Max Ramirez and Netfali Feliz.
Stu,
Damn right. Daniels owes us BIG time if he prevents the Braves from making anymore trades.
I hate Daniels.
Mac, can we get a delenda est?
JS should pull out of the Tex deal on principle at this point.
Jon Daniels delenda est!!
Apparently JS is a busy, busy man. Meanwhile Daniels decided to go on vacation.
“Medical reports? Sign? What? Hold on. I said no salt. No salt on the margarita. I’ll take my travler’s checks to a competing resort.”
I thought about that, Parish, but it would be awfully deflating to the team.
This is stupid….The Red Sox got Gagne?? Geez…
OMG Atlanta’s Fax machine just went on the fritz! JS is hurring across the street to Kinkos and texting the fax number there to Texas, KC, and every team interested in Wickman!
Good, the sooner the freaking better. Who gives a shit? Maybe now Daniels can be bothered to sign the fucking papers!
Well, that’s no skin off our nose, but he’ll be nothing more than a 7th inning pitcher. They’re nuts.
I bet the Tigers would have some interest in Wickman.
I bet every team has some interest in Wickman. He’s a good pitcher.
I wonder if it’s him and Reyes for Arroyo.
Stu – we actually don’t disagree that much on Davies. I agree he has value to other teams (and have stated so several times – let’s get as much for him as we can.) Thus, he does still have value to us. But as a player for the Braves, his stock is terribly low and I don’t see it getting higher. Best that he get a chance somewhere else if he really does still have the talent and desire to make it as a major league ballplayer.
Re: Daniels and his “vacation” – we shouldn’t pull out of the trade, but I agree that we should never deal with him again after this. Very unprofessional.
The best case on this Davies holdup is that we end up getting Dotel for Thorman and Arroyo for Reyes. Reyes was not on the Rangers list of replacement pitchers, but Davies was. So sorry Dayton Moore, will you take Thorman instead?
Olney on ESPN saying the Tex deal is done, and Davies was not included.
Buster Olney says it’s a done deal! FINALLY
Game thread is up.
Teixeira deal done! Olney says so. It’s Harrison.
Thank the good lord!
So….
Boston gets Gagne, which frees up the Texas staff to ….
Finish off the Tex trade, which frees up Davies (one of the possible Harrison alternatives) to …
Be traded for Dotel, which makes Wickman expendable and able to …
[What’s next, JS?]
So we now can trade Davies, if that’s actually gonna happen and we still have an hour to see what’s what with Arroyo.
It is not entirely Daniel’s fault, as Harrison was hurt just before the deal was done.
And Wickman.
Okay, so the status is:
Tex: Done
Dotel: Done
Arroyo: probably not going to happen, but ongoing
Wickman: Who knows? People might be getting desperate. Maybe we can steal a stud prospect or usable SP.
we are officially awesome
Yeah, JS is having a very good deadline this year.
Wow! I think this has to fuel the clubhouse as well as the fans because the front office is definitely sending the message that we are going for it.
Damn…I didn’t know the Braves were 10 games out when we got McGriff in ’93
We are only 4 out now…and peeps are saying the season is over?
So what will Dotel’s role be? We did trade away a starter for him…7th, 8th…closer???
JS you take some heat here and rightfully so on the McBride trade, but you have earned your keep my friend keep it coming!!
by the way, its Escobar and Reyes for Arroyo! thoughts?
45 minutes to the deadline just in case I’m the only one with a clock.
Wickman to DET for McBride. I heard it on YouTube.
CSG…
Escobar AND Reyes? Damn that’s steep for Arroyo…but Arroyo does have a ring.
Does a deal have to be “Done done” by 4 PM or paperwork is due to MLB at 4 PM.
With idea that paperwork would include trade contingencies. ie. once trade a goes through, execute trade B, then C.
I like what we’ve done so far. Giving up three pitchers plus Andrus and Salty is pretty crazy, but we still got a great player. Let the Royals deal with Davies, too. As long as Dotel can be a good reliever for us, then let’s move forward.
Arroyo isn’t even mentioned as a potentially traded player on ESPN.com. Shows how much they know.
Oh, and I had no idea Davies was demoted, but it makes sense considering how many starters we had up.
One cool thing about China: you can always catch a Yankees game. Of course the Yankees are evil, but hey, baseball’s baseball, especially when you’re surrounded by communism.
Done Done!!!!
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/transactions/index.jsp
Atlanta Braves
Acquired 1B Mark Teixeira and LHP Ron Mahay from the Rangers for C Jarrod Saltalamacchia and four nonroster players: SS Elvis Andrus, RHP Neftali Feliz, LHP Matt Harrison and LHP Beau Jones.
Royce Ring from San Diego for Ledezma and Startup
Done Deal