I saw Barry in San Francisco, and he struck out, and he grounded out, and he doubled, and then he…
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I saw Barry in San Francisco, and he struck out, and he grounded out, and he doubled, and then he…
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This is a reply to Stu from the previous thread. While it’s always possible that Kyle Davies will develop into a good starter, odds are that he’ll haunt us a lot more while playing FOR us than playing against us.
Teixeira’s most-similar through age 26:
1. Fred McGriff (934)
2. Paul Konerko (933)
3. Mark McGwire (920)
4. Kent Hrbek (918)
5. Will Clark (916)
6. Jeff Bagwell (913)
7. Rocky Colavito (913)
8. Willie McCovey (911) *
9. Richie Sexson (911)
10. Don Hurst (910)
Ledezma delenda est worked, so now it needs to be Woodward.
If we get Dotel after we’ve already gotten Mahay, who else in the bullpen leaves? Yates and Soriano have been struggling the most, but Soriano isn’t going anywhere and Yates was so good in June that I don’t see them doing anything to him yet. Everyone else has been pretty good lately, though, so who’s the odd man out?
Ahaha. That’s awsome, Mac.
What a day.
I don’t necessarily want him gone but I would think Paronto might be the odd man out.
This is a ok deal IF we don’t resign Teixeira AND Salty becomes an All-Star.
This is a good deal IF we sign Teixeira to a long term deal.
IF we win the World Series this year or next whether we resign Tex or not this is a damn great trade.
Big rumors that Braves are openly going after Bronson Arroyo now, that would be huge as well, but what would they have to give up?! probably jones and thorman as well as a reliever like devine?
That’s just creepy, Mac. It’s almost like a sign. 🙂 Maybe somebody will set fire to the press box.
Teixeira, Dotel and Arroyo?
I hope JS isn’t done. If you’re going to go for it, then do it and not be half-assed about it! Bring on Dotel and/or Arroyo.
New poll.
I’m guessing they don’t do both Arroyo and Dotel, but you never know. This has been one crazy-ass day.
I went with 4 on the poll BTW, but I reserve the right to turn that into a 5 at the end of the year.
Dotel’s coming from so many sources in one form or another, I think it’s likely. The sources disagree on whom the Braves are giving up, though.
Yates should go at this point, or at least on the DL. Paronto has been useful, Yates has shattered over the past month or so.
If nothing else, I think today shows that the payroll is definitely going up.
Awsome.
As for the ‘pen, I’d like to see Yates take a month off and then come up for September and fight it out for the last spot on the post-season roster. Paronto has been a lot better lately and has less wear on the arm, but if Yates can come back rejuvinated , I’d prefer his arm come playoff time.
Question on the McGriff reference: Wasn’t Donnie Elliot highly regarded too? I don’t think Nieves was the only “legit” prospect.
Good job bringing up the McGriff trade, Mac. This looks very similar, only Tex is a couple of years younger.
DOB with Chris “Mad Dog” Russo on WFAN in NYC from earlier today. Go to “Insant Replay” on the left side of the page.
http://www.wfan.com
Seriously, does anyone here ever want to see Davies pitch again in a Braves uniform? I sure as hell don’t. Getting Dotel for him seems like a steal, especially since Dotel is covered through 2008 via option.
I think the 2008 option is Dotel’s to exercise.
Hard for me to see a 5. I suspect Teixeira is no Fred McGriff, and surely our quadrumvirate is no Melvin Nieves and Donnie Elliott.
I feel comfortable with 2. Not a 1, at least we’re assured of getting a useful player back. Playoffs are still no more likely than not mathematically, so I don’t see a ton of use in discussing playoff scenarios.
I feel charitable. 2 1/2.
Which means he’s probably gone unless we give him the closer job, which we’re not likely to do.
I went 2.
We got a great player. We spent more than we should have. Definitely, less than neutral on the deal at this point.
I’m actually dumbfounded at how many people don’t like this deal. I’ve decided it’s not possible to make a major deal that a significant portion of the people on Braves Journal don’t initially hate.
I went 2. And now we are staring down Dotel-Davies.
I heard that WWF just placed ‘Braves Prospect’ on their endangered species list.
I’m vomiting in the ocean over the alleged Davies-for-Dotel trade.
And who in the world would be left on the farm if we got Arroyo? Is JS’s plan to have Li’l Jonny appear on our Top 10 Prospects lists before he retires?
I vote 4.
I’m optimistic.
Stu,
Why do you like Davies? What have you seen from him that makes you believe he’s worth keeping?
Is JS’s plan to have Li’l Jonny appear on our Top 10 Prospects lists before he retires?
Obviously he wants one more go at the big prize before he retires, but this is crossing into being irresponsible to the future of the franchise.
I’d take a bag of half-used mustard packets for Davies. I can’t believe anyone is against any Davies trade unless it was for Reitsma or Kolb.
Elliot was probably the Braves’ best pitching prospect at the time, but he was a B prospect for a team that had a starting rotation of Maddux-Glavine-Smoltz-Avery.
I put 5. The deal is fantastic.
If the Dotel deal is for Davies, I’m not as excited. I’d put a 3 on that one.
I polled it a 4, in part because I try to value trades based on what is known (or at least what I know) at the time the trade is made, not with hindsight. The McGriff trade was a very good trade at the time, not just because the Braves ended up not giving up much. The relevant points on the Tex trade have been made in the prior thread. Measured without context, the Rangers got several good players. Measured with context, the Braves traded players for whom they cannot find a spot.
I’m sorry, but Kyle Davies is not a prospect. You may like him, and that’s fine. But he is not a farm system prospect anymore when he’s been a Major League pitcher for three years. It doesn’t really have anything to do with the farm system, as far as I’m concerned.
And for the record, I still don’t understand why this wouldn’t be a good deal.
Mac, what did you vote on the poll?
love the tex deal
not so much for dotel. his arm will fall off and/or he’ll be gone at the end of the year. isn’t it worth stashing davies in richmond for a while to see if he can pull it together?
Yeah, I fear more bad starts from Davies with the Braves than good starts from Davies with the Royals.
Davies has middle-of-the-rotation upside, ububba et al. He’s an inconsistent headcase right now, for sure, but I don’t like giving up young, cheap starters with good stuff for old, seriously injury-prone, expensive relievers.
Just sort of a policy of mine. I vote 3 on the Teixeira trade, 1.5 on Dotel if it’s for Davies.
Stu, while I agree that we way overpaid for Tex, I have to disagree on Davies-Dotel. I just don’t see how we will ever really get anything out of Davies on the roster and I think his value diminishes as time goes on.
Who gives a shit if his arm falls off and he’s gone at the end of the year? We’re just getting him for one year anyway.
I really don’t get the sudden love for Kyle Davies. I might not go as far as Mac (with the used mustard packets), but this is a guy who’s had numerous chances. You have to be starting to wonder if he’ll be any good. And even if he is, what’s his ceiling? A No. 3 starter? Don’t we already have like three of those already? As I said, 25% of the people on this site will automatically piss all over any trade no matter what it is.
I generally don’t vote in the polls. I probably would have put 4. Assuming Hanson isn’t part of the deal, there’s nobody involved I saw as a serious contributor for the Braves in the near future.
As for Saltalamacchia, I keep thinking of what happened to the Padres when they came up with Benito Santiago and Sandy Alomar Jr. at the same time. They kept messing around with Alomar, burying him in the minors when he was clearly ready for the Show, and he lost a lot of his trade value. They got Joe Carter in a trade for him, eventually — but also had to give up Carlos Baerga in that deal. Then again, they had Robby Alomar and Bip Roberts so there wasn’t really a spot for Baerga. Weird team.
Good points all. He’s 24, there is no way he could improve, and plus we’ve got all these other pitching prospects lined up in the system…
I should mention that I would rather us get Dotel for Thorman than for Davies.
41 — would you care if his arm falls off next week? the guy’s pitched 20 some odd innings in two years and hasn’t exactly been untouchable. there’s inherent risk in adding him while giving up any asset at all.
davies has sucked this year. obviously. but it’d be an extreme sell-low situation.
I guess I just don’t see any upside for Davies anymore & I’d package him for something useful, even if it’s short-term. I’d prefer a starter, but I’m guessing JS is exploring/has explored that, too.
If we get Dotel, I have a feeling that within weeks we’ll hear the call for him to replace Wickman as closer. In fact, that’ll happen the very next time Wickman coughs up another game.
As I’ve mentioned, I cannot imagine a day when I’m pining for Kyle Davies.
I guess you just have to ask yourself the question, then. Does Kyle Davies=any asset at all?
If you wonder why people question giving up Davies, just look at the issues we’ve had at the back of the rotation (granted, Davies was the source of some of these issues). Giving up cheap options at SP can be bad.
But I think we’ll have a lot of options for next year, especially if Hampton comes back and/or we re-sign Carlyle.
mlbtraderumors suggests that we might be willing to part with jo jo reyes and or yunel escobar for bronson arroyo ,that scares me
Seattle PI confirms Dotel for Davies.
http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/archives/119073.asp
Which is to say, I don’t mind a Davies-for-Dotel swap.
With Salty, since he wasn’t going to catch for us, he had to go. I guess he might hit enough to contribute at first base (versus the league average, not versus who the Braves ran out there so far this year) but he might now, and defensively he has a long way to go. The time was now. Of course, I just read Mac’s post and this repeats, less eloquently, what he was saying. Oops.
never count your hamptons before they pitch
Well, I would just as soon get rid of Escobar since I’m deathly afraid that we’re gonna get rid of Renteria for him, so that doesn’t bother me too much. Lillibridge has gotta be better than Escobar anyway.
And adding Arroyo would offset the loss of Reyes, so I’d be cool with that, I think.
LOL…nice, beedee
Either Dayton Moore is stupid, or he is unnecessarily sentimental, or he really thinks he has a handle on how to fix Davies. Or some combination thereof. Reports are that the Mariners offered Wladimir Balentien for Dotel. Balentien is tearing up the PCL. Oh, and he’s from Andruw’s hometown, though that’s pretty meaningless.
I’m no fan of Davies, although it a little early to tell. But, the Braves need SPs and don’t really need righty setup guys. Three years (I think the Braves still control him for 3 years) of a young SP with MLB experience vs. 1 year of a righty setup guy seems like not much of a deal. It seems like we could get more for Davies. Maybe there’s a second player from the Royals we’ve not heard about.
Davies does have some asset in that other GM’s may value him. It’s not so much a question of “should we get rid of the guy” as much as it is “what should/could we get back for him?” It’s hard to think he’ll ever have a worse trade value, but I don’t know that he’ll ever be good enough for us to have any more of one. Yes, get rid of him. But get as much as you can.
I’d be fine with Yunel and Jo-Jo for Arroyo. Would be very pleased with it, actually.
And for the record, I’d love to be wrong about the relative values of Dotel and Davies. I just don’t think it’s indicative of a wise philosophy.
Kyle Elfrink of ESPN-1580 Columbia,MO. is reporting the Davies-Dotel is pretty much done.
To get Teixeira we sold the farm
E-I E-I spells Teixeira.
Jeff K – Right on. Use Davies to get a starter (unless of course, some moron is willing to give you a decent #3 starter for Scott Thorman.)
“mlbtraderumors suggests that we might be willing to part with jo jo reyes and or yunel escobar for bronson arroyo ,that scares me”
I’m perfectly fine with that. Good time to trade Escobar (wish I could say the same for Davies, Andrus, Harrison, or Feliz). Arroyo would not be a rental. Looks OK.
And since we have already mortgaged the post-JS era to some extent, I would argue that a trade for a starter is essential. It was anyways, but now, if he doesn’t, I think he’s killing this season and hurting future seasons to boot.
Right, but here’s the thing. For us to be able to get anything more for Davies we’re gonna have to call him up and have him pitch again to show that he isn’t, you know, the worst pitcher of all-time. The fact that anyone is willing to give us anything for him other than a PTBNL is astounding to me. Why wouldn’t you just do that deal and then be done with that festering mess?
Bronson Arroyo…interesting.
Having a not-so-great year, but I’m pretty sure he’d be OK in Turner Field.
Home: 2-3, 59 IP, 5.19 ERA
Away: 2-8, 80 IP, 3.70 ERA
I saw him pitch a lot for the Sawx against the Yankees & always thought he was tough-minded and much grittier than his surfer-boy persona. Was surprised Boston traded him.
Put me in the camp that says good riddance to Davies. I’ve always felt his “stuff” has been overstated. He may turn out to be like Jason Marquis, a league average guy who can eat innings, but like Marquis, that’s not going to happen with the Braves. That ship has sailed and I’m fine with it.
Why trade Davies for someone who can’t start? It’s not addition by subtraction here.
Oh man, you guys, PLEASE check out http://www.bronsonarroyo.com/
mlbtraderumors was speculating because they have no idea whomelse the Braves could offer for Arroyo.
I can’t imagine the interest is serious anymore. Maybe before the Tex deal. Who’s left to deal?
Prior to these moves, I was not a fan of picking up Arroyo. But it is clear the Braves are willing to take on salary and if the price is Escobar and Reyes, I’ll accept it. As has been mentioned, we’ve already sold a good portion of the farm.
And if that deal is made, let’s take the money and run on Davies for Dotel.
Let’s make it a full on run!
Davies is arbitration eligible soon isn’t he?
Is there anyone here craving more Davies’ starts?
We kinda need relief help, Rob.
Only 20 pitchers have a worse career ERA, min. 100 innings, ages 23 and younger, than Davies’ 6.15:
CAREER
AGE < 24 ERA ERA 1 John McDougal 8.32 2 Cal McLish 7.73 3 Carl Doyle 7.56 4 Mike Johnson 7.52 5 Chauncey Fisher 7.43 6 C.J. Nitkowski 7.21 7 Jake Boyd 7.20 8 Al Maul 7.13 9 Colby Lewis 7.08 10 Jimmy Haynes 7.01 11 Hector Fajardo 6.83 12 Jose Parra 6.59 13 Eddie Guardado 6.53 14 Bill Kissinger 6.51 15 Dick Welteroth 6.51 16 Jim Waugh 6.46 17 Tom Colcolough 6.41 18 Chris George 6.32 19 Jose Lima 6.24 20 Jack Bracken 6.21 So maybe he grows up to be Jose Lima.
[i]Why trade Davies for someone who can’t start? It’s not addition by subtraction here.[/i]
Davies can’t start either.
#13 Guardado ended up being pretty good for a long time.
He’s still (well, was) young, cheap, and fully capable of overcoming what many scouts believed to be confidence issues as opposed to stuff issues. I hope I’m wrong.
@71 – No. No more starts.
Hallefuckinlujia!
———
The Royals appear ready to trade Dotel to the Braves for Kyle Davies, the Kansas City Star reports.
———
No more Davies. No more Davies. I can not stand Davies. Thanks for jumping off that tanking arm, JS.
Dotel has rocked this year. He and Mahay should be able to give Yates a breather and help get the game to Soriano and Wickman.
There were no starters worth a damn on the market, so we did the next best thing and rebuilt the ‘pen. Nice.
When I last saw the rumor, we were trading Thorman for Dotel, so naturally I’m a little disappointed that’s not the case.
Or Hallefuckinlujah!
Davies is a dirty tease. Go far away. And it may work out better for him too, who knows?
I’m not voting on the poll until we’re absolutely sure which TNSTAAPPs we gave up.
“Dotel has rocked this year.”
Really? Improvement to our bullpen to be sure, but that says more about our bullpen IMO.
Lots of K’s, I guess. Easily offset by the walk every other inning and HR every 7, I’d say, but he’s probably underperforming.
Mac, I don’t have the wherewithal, can you produce similar data using ERA+? I think most of us agree that ERA unadjusted is a poor tool for comparison.
Bottom Line is, if your gonna mortgage the future, then do it to the fullest.
If you add Dotel and Arroyo, you have to think your the favorite in the east even down 4.5 games.
You rotation looks like
Smoltz – Hudson -Arroyo – James – Carlyle
Your lineup
Johnson
Renteria
Jones
Texiera
Jones
McCann
Francouer
Diaz/Harris
Pitcher
Bench
Franco, Thorman, Harris/Diaz, Pena
Pen
Wickman
Dotel
Soriano
Mahay
Moylan
Yates
Paronto
Thats a good team, we can win this year and next!
Wow, its crazy to see that new lineup, nj. Tuesday night should be fun to watch.
What is the word on Mike Gonzales anyway? How is his rehab going? Is he going to be ready for next year?
I agree @83 – that looks like a team built to win. Certainly one capable of challenging not just the Mets but any team in baseball.
Of course, they all have to perform up to expectations…
Sorry njbravesfan, Harris will still be leading off because, well…..he’s fast?
Did you trade Escobar and Reyes, nj?
The Sabermetric Encyclopedia doesn’t do ERA+, but I can compare to the league:
CAREER
AGE < 24 ERA vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria ERA ERA ERA 1 John McDougal 8.32 -3.54 2 Cal McLish 7.73 -4.01 3 Carl Doyle 7.56 -2.92 4 Mike Johnson 7.52 -3.14 5 Chauncey Fisher 7.43 -2.21 6 C.J. Nitkowski 7.21 -2.53 7 Jake Boyd 7.20 -2.44 8 Al Maul 7.13 -3.34 9 Colby Lewis 7.08 -2.57 10 Jimmy Haynes 7.01 -2.07 11 Hector Fajardo 6.83 -2.22 12 Jose Parra 6.59 -1.77 13 Eddie Guardado 6.53 -2.12 14 Bill Kissinger 6.51 -1.74 15 Dick Welteroth 6.51 -2.26 16 Jim Waugh 6.46 -2.38 17 Tom Colcolough 6.41 -1.24 18 Chris George 6.32 -1.82 19 Jose Lima 6.24 -1.38 20 Jack Bracken 6.21 -2.55 Davies is about 1.80 worse than the league.
The only downside to your team, nj, is that it leaves room for Woodward. 🙁
Man. This team is very exciting allofasudden. The minors less so, but hey, that’s okay. And for next year, I think all we’ll need to do is add a CF:
C- BMac, Pena
1B- Teix, Thorman/Franco
2B- KJ
SS- Renteria, Escobar, Lillibridge
3B- Chipper
LF- Diaz, Brandon Jones/Thorman
CF- some FA
RF- Frenchy
SP- Smoltz, Huddy, C. James, 2 of Hampton/JoJo/Carlyle/’Fredo/Cormier/FA?
RP- Soriano, Gonzo, Moylan, Yates, Startup, Devine, Villareal (or substitute a FA for one or two of these guys)
Looks nice to me, and that’s only 1-3 FAs.
But maybe I’m getting ahead of myself?
No, good job mraver…you reminded me that Villareal goes on the team nj put together instead of Woodward. 😉
We still have plenty of prospects. Just more of them now in the lower levels.
We should just not have a farm system. Think about how much money we could save and then pour into the MLB roster. It’s frickin’ genius! Then we could just trade $$$ for Johan Santana and Alex Rodriguez.
id think that if brandon jones cant play center next year, frenchy will with brandon in right, rather than spending money on an FA.
also, i doubt they’d give up escobar now only if because it leaves them thin if anything happens to renteria/jones/johnson this year, hurting any chance of a run. you could make a case that an injkury to the first two would finish us anyway, but with a serviceable escobar hitting 8th we’d still have a chance. realistically, i think we may be able to get arroyo for jo-jo, thorman, and another prospect preferably a low-level one, but maybe not.
More Tex talk from the AJC:
http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/ajc/sportscolumns/entries/2007/07/30/teixeira_gives.html
If you could somehow swing Salty, Davies, Escobar, Reyes, Andrus and prospects for Santana and Rodriguez, wouldn’t you do it? Of course you would.
But of course, we can’t. So we do the next best thing. Prospects will come along as they do every year. The minor leagues are not barren. And we have a legit chance to win this year AND next depending on how the Andruw situation plays out (and the payroll which from the looks of it will be going up.)
I, for one, am excited about the stretch run. That’s all I ask for as a Braves fan. Given their record, I have some triumphs and let downs in front of me. But I truly appreciate the effort the guys at Turner Field are putting into the team. Let’s hope it continues.
Checking the referrer logs, Ranger fans are apparently tickled by the Saltalamacchia/high school teacher thing.
#92,
I like the ’08 roster. A positive, I guess. Weak SP’s IMO, needs a move or three.
Sure wish we could have fielded a 1B the first part of this year, though
ok fellas…we are NOT losing in the farm
remember our draft picks? heward WILL be a stud in 4 years and Johnson will be a serviceable LF capable of giving us .275-18-75 with around 20 SBs…
is this a testament to JS’s faith in our past two drafts????
our upper minors is depleted, but the lower minors is not…Hanson and the M—– kid who has been lights out…remember, JS has NEVER been shy about moving from AA to majors…upper minors depth is a myth
good DEVELOPMENT is the key…
And today is the highest traffic day on the new version of the site, though nothing compared to the post-Marte influx of Red Sox fans.
Mac – ain’t it about time you changed it back to Woodward delenda est? 😉
If we get Dotel and Arroyo, we are obviously ‘all in’ at that point. Perhaps, JS and Bobby have determined that this will be their last, best chance to get another ring and ride off into the sunset. With the departure of Andruw and the expected fades of Chipper and Smoltz, I can certainly understand that conclusion.
Another point is that Davies is arbitration eligible next season.
Robert,
That’s what Dave O’Brien was talking about on the radio today: This is it.
And now I’m going to swing my local Irish pub, fully populated by Mets fans. Guess I’ll have to take their temperature & see what they’re thinking.
Hate the trade a little less right now, unless we inexplicably fail to acquire a #3 starter.
That said, this prospect list from Baseball Prospectus is pretty funny/sad:
Very Good Prospects
1. Jarrod Saltalamacchia, C
2. Matt Harrison, LHP
Good Prospects
3. Neftali Feliz, RHP
4. Eric Campbell, 3B/2B
5. Elvis Andrus, SS
I want to say therein lies the difference between the Tex and Crime Dog deals? We still had Klesko and Javy and Chipper the first go round (and were a better team).
But who knows, it may be nothing (it’s just insured in triplicate against it being nothing, heh). Our farm system is a touch overrated anyways.
Do we know Harrison is the last person in that trade? I mean the waiting for reviewing medical records or whatever makes it sound like it’s Harrison, but do we have a source for that?
Look, good riddance to freaking Kyle Davies. Were we all watching the same pitching? he had no balls out there and got his ass kicked. End of story. The fact that we could get anything eyond a bag of rocks, is truly amazing.
Arroyo would definitely be the cherry on the Sunday.
By the way, I promise all the worriers that we will still have a very deep farm system. We have been well stocked.
I meant Sundae.
Yes, she is plenty stocked.
Nevermind, found a source:
http://www.ajc.com/braves/content/sports/braves/stories/2007/07/30/trade_0730.html
I posted this in the last thread. I made it up.
Fun New top 10 prospect list?
1. Tommy Hanson
2. Brandon Jones
3. Kala Kaaihue
4. Joey Devine
5. Jamie Richmond
6. Dan Smith
7. Cody Johnson
8. Cole Rahrbaugh
9. Eric Campbell
10. Will Startup
I forgot Lillibridge. Put him at about 4th.
Off-topic: There was a story about Larry Munson’s forecast for Georgia this coming season in the AJC. Here is a quote:
“I think we’re going to lose a lot of games,” said the Dogs’ legendary play-by-play man. “It’s scary; it really is scary. I’m a worrier, but this is the most worried I’ve ever been.”
Thought that was interesting, but I don’t know if he always says stuff like that as I am not a Bulldog.
says stuff like that all the time*
The second pitcher will be right-hander Neftali Feliz, 19, a hard-throwing Dominican rated the Braves’ No. 18 prospect by Baseball America. He has 70 strikeouts in 5 1/3 innings in two seasons at Rookie and Class-A levels.
70K’s in 5 1/3 innings…sounds like this guy needs a new catcher to throw to
so these are our SS in the rumors today, tell me if Im wrong
Andrus for Teixiera
Lillibridge for Dotel, or Davies
Escobar for Arroyo
so who would that leave us after Renty is gone. Prado, JS Jr…
quick question to everyone on here:
What’s a good Atlanta radio sports station? I’m from FL and I looked online. I tried this one station with Colin Cowherd and he was total B.S. . He talks about the dumbest things.
What station is Dave O’Brien on?
thanks guys
“Andrus for Teixiera”
Well, that’s not really a rumor anymore.
I voted the deal a 4. I’m not sold on Dotel, but Davies is a bum. I have no problem trading him.
yes, but he is a SS and was in the rumors today, until the trade was completed.
Some guy just posted on MLB rumors that our offer for Dotel is Davies, Acosta, and Lillibridge.
Ummm, Id have to say NO! Not unless we are getting Greinke or Gordon
Phils are up 4-0, but Bourn just hurt his ankle. He’s staying in the game somehow. It looked pretty bad
Dayn Perry….
The Braves may live to regret parting with high-upside talents like Saltalamacchia and Andrus; however, as the research of Jay Jaffe of Baseball Prospectus has shown, Braves GM John Schuerholz has a knack for knowing which prospects to part with and which to keep. Considering the organization’s history in this regard, it’s not wise to bet against them.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7075888
people on prosports daily rumors are saying that the Dotel trade is done, no link though. Its Dotel for Davies
The Phils already pulled Victorino to put in Bourn, so maybe he has to stay in.
In fact, I was wondering if Victorino was hurt — he got pulled in the fourth inning. What’s going on?
they had Dobbs out there stretching. After Bourn finally got up he stayed in
csg, I posted a link in #50:
http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/archives/119073.asp
It’s just one source, but it’s a legit paper.
Victorino has a calf strain
http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070730&content_id=2119337&vkey=news_phi&fext=.jsp&c_id=phi
btw, Bourn just got pulled and Dobbs is in
csg, another link:
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/mlb_experts/post/Report-Braves-get-Dotel?urn=mlb,40796
who was the list of pitchers that the Rangers could choose from if Harrison isnt healthy?
If Davies is one of the players listed to choose from what happens if we deal him for Dotel?
@braves14: Just for fun, here’s my list.
1. Tommy Hanson, RHP
2. Brandon Jones, OF
3. Jason Heyward, OF
4. Brett Lillibridge, SS
5. Julio Teheran, RHP
6. Jordan Schaefer, OF
7. Joey Devine, RHP
8. Eric Campbell, 3B
9. Cole Rohrbaugh, LHP
10. Cody Johnson, 1B
Heyward hasn’t even signed yet, has he?
If by some miracle, Fields gets signed, he’s on that list, too.
however, this states the opposite. This says that JS has to wait until Tuesday to find out that the Tex deal went through and had to stop all other discussions until then
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070730&content_id=2118481&vkey=news_atl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl
yes Heyward signed
Hey, maybe Daniels will keep us from making the Davies/Dotel mistake.
Whatever you think of the Teixieria trade, has Bobby said that he’ll bat Teix after Chipper? If he hasn’t, I’m not sure Bobby’ll budge Andruw out of the 4 spot. He should, but I’ll believe that when I see it. And I think the trade is a good one, by the way: 3 or 4.
Chipper called for it in that article posted #136
Dotel is not complete, it was our offer
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/
I thought Davies/Dotel may have been too good to be true….crap!
Oh well. No BIG loss, after all, Dotel stunk. Davies stinks worse… but you know.
I’m guessing that Davies is one of the players that the Rangers have to choose from. I really hope Harrison is hurt and they take Davies
Salty, Andrus, Davies, and Feliz is better
I don’t understand why some of you don’t want Dotel. Adding him to the bullpen is a big help. His pitches are filthy and he has a strong track record. If the cost is only Kyle Davies, what’s with the negativity?
I disagree, csg. But you prolly knew that.
Let’s get Arroyo or Vazquez, please.
what are you disagreeing with. Davies over Harrison in the deal?
Jeremy, what league level is Teheran at now?
Jeremy, you forgot Kala Ka’aihue?
I also don’t understand why there is no love for Dotel. He is light years better than Kali.
Yeah, Davies over Harrison, csg.
Dotel’s “strong” track record includes getting injured on about every third pitch or so.
Gammons just said that the Tex deal was good for both teams.
He just said Salty would be in the top 30% of catchers next year, Andrus reminds him of Jeter, and Feliz reminds him of Mariano Rivera but he has a long way to go
Source says deal with KC not that close
Report indicating looming trade for Dotel may be premature
By Mark Bowman / MLB.com
ATLANTA — While the Braves have made inquiries about Royals closer Octavio Dotel, an American League source said there is no validity to reports that have indicated the teams are close to finalizing a deal.
In fact, this high-ranking official said Braves general manager John Schuerholz won’t be able to get into any serious trade talks until the deal to bring Texas’ Mark Teixeira and Ron Mahay to Atlanta is finalized on the Rangers’ end. It’s expected to be completed on Tuesday after all necessary medical reviews are completed.
Until then, Schuerholz is unable to enter any other serious negotiations, including those that would fulfill his desire to improve his pitching staff. One National League scout said he wouldn’t be surprised to see the GM land a veteran starting pitcher before Tuesday’s 4 p.m. ET trade deadline arrives.
A Major League source who would have knowledge of any negotiations between these teams said there was absolutely no truth to SI.com’s report that the Braves were nearing a deal that would send Minor League shortstop Brent Lillibridge to the Royals in exchange for Dotel, who has converted 11 of his 14 save opportunities this year.
If the Braves are going to end up with Dotel, it would more likely be in exchange for Kyle Davies, who Royals general manger Dayton Moore got to know well during his days in the Atlanta organization.
Before becoming Kansas City GM last June, Dayton Moore spent more than 10 seasons making his way to the top of the Atlanta scouting and player development department.
In his attempt to build a solid stable of young starting pitchers in Kansas City, there’s definite reason to believe Moore would be tempted to acquire Davies in exchange for Dotel.
But even though the 23-year-old Davies’ inconsistencies led to a demotion to Triple-A Richmond earlier this month, the Braves still may want to continue developing his tremendous talents in hope that increased confidence will improve his mental approach.
The suddenly pitching-needy Dodgers have also expressed interest in Dotel. They may be willing to get him in exchange for Minor League shortstop Chin-Lung Hu, who was named Futures Game MVP.
__________________
Dotel has been a lot more durable than you’re giving him credit for, Stu, but I agree that there is an injury risk with him.
However, are there any other available relievers who average over one K per inning, have years of late-game experience and are signed to a favorable contract…that we can possibly only deal Kyle Fracking Davies to get?
I doubt it.
Thank goodness.
Thorman for Dotel makes a lot more sense for us. Thorman is out of options and won’t have a regular job for us through next season. Since he’s still a so-called prospect, he has to play, and we have to get rid of him. Dotel would be a fine return for someone we’re about to lose for nothing.
I don’t disagree with that, sansho1
sansho1, i doubt Dotel will come this cheap. I am sure it will be thorman plus a pitcher. This trade market is crazy, so I am certain a straight Thorman for Dotel trade is almost impossible.
Stu, this will make you mad, but Dayton can’t resist the chance of dealing with the Braves. I am almost 80% sure right now Dotel will be in Braves uniform.
The question is whether JS can bring in a starter.
Regardless, this much is certain, JS is doing all the trades because he and Bobby will retire soon.
You’re right, kc, I’m sure a straight-up trade is wishful thinking on my part. If we can add an OK pitching prospect, I’d still be happy.
Acquiring Dotel isn’t objectionable, kc—giving up Davies for him is.
Davies, the guy who didn’t record an out last time he pitched in the majors and just got lit up in AAA? That Davies?
Thanks for the clarification Stu, now I understand what you are thinking.
Yes, whatever will the Braves do without Kyle Davies?
I bet Bowman’s article is just caution, and the trade gets down right after the Rangers pick Harrison as their PTBNL tomorrow.
Yeah, the one who’s a former first rounder, had a bad season and a half—while showing flashes of brilliance—and is, what, 24 years old? 23? The one not worth trading for an injury-prone, expensive reliever. That Kyle Davies.
Stu, I just…I don’t get it. You spend all day complaining about how we gave up too many prospects, yet you would rather keep Davies than the best pitching prospect in the organization?
Kyle Davies is no longer a prospect. He’s a flier, a reclamation project. There may be something in there, but it’s damn sure buried under 15 pounds of crap. He is not an ace, and even if he recovers (which there’s about a 10% chance of if he stays in our organization IMO) he’s at best a middle-of-the-rotation guy. You say those are hard to come by, but apparently they’re not, because we’re swimming up to our eyeballs in them as we speak.
Including Davies, we have three of them who have played in the majors right now and that’s if we don’t trade for Arroyo. Why is Kyle Davies more important than Jo-Jo Reyes, who you said earlier today that you would include in an Arroyo deal? They’re the exact same pitcher as far as I can see, and Reyes is left-handed, which would theoretically make him more valuable.
You say you see some potential, and that’s fine. I think we can all admit Davies has (or at the very least had) some potential. But he’s about as far from that now as one can possibly be.
Is it really worth it to the organization to spend their valuable time and money in order to “fix” this guy when at best he’ll be a No. 3 starter? Or would it be better to cut bait now, send him to an organization that we know cares about him (or at least the GM does), and get something that we need for him? I’ve been going around in my head all afternoon since this rumor came up and for the life of me, I just can’t understand how one comes up with the first answer, unless you just don’t like it when players you’ve rooted for leave (and I’m starting to convince myself that that’s why nobody likes trades around here BTW).
And don’t forget–Cox has about lost it with him as well. His comments after the no-out game spoke volumes about where the Braves see Davies.
He’s not helping the team in AAA, nor does it appear he’s getting any better (or closer to returning). The bullpen needs help today, so you have to make the trade.
Apparently Reitsma’s career may be over.
http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/stories/2007/07/30/Reitsma_0731.html
God help me, I’m actually feeling sorry for the man.
Nick,
Understandable. I am too. We may hate him as a pitcher, but dammit, at least he tried. It shouldn’t have to end that way, even for him.
Jeremy, what league level is Teheran at now?
He probably won’t debut until next year, most likely in the rookie league. He was the top international pitcher.
Here’s some more info on Teheran from BA:
Nick,
I wouldn’t trade Reyes for Dotel and I would trade Davies for Arroyo. The point is that you don’t trade talented starters for relievers with damaged arms. For established 3rd starters, surem it shouldn’t be that hard to understand.
And if you think I just don’t like trades, you’ve either not been around or not paid attention in the past. I’m a very big Schuerholz supporter. I hardly ever question him. There just happen to have been two trades made or nearly made today that I’m not crazy about.
I thought Reitsma’s career was over during his stint with the Braves.
SI.com says that the Braves cleared Tex’s medical records, but also added this:
“The sides reached a compromise agreement after Texas sought a substitute for pitching prospect Matt Harrison due to injury concerns. According to the Fort Wort Star-Telegram, the Braves have agreed to send pitching prospect Neftali Feliz and a player to be named later instead of Harrison.”
So no Harrison to the Rangers? Wonder who it is?
Ah, yes. I remember now that you pasted that.
If it’s Tom Hanson…
I’ve already written off Davies myself. Just keeping my fingers crossed that we don’t give up a high upside guy like Hanson or Cole Rohrbough (who I’d never even heard of until today – now I think he’s one of our better prospects!) in the next day or so. Although as I said on Primer, I wouldn’t be opposed to Hanson for Arroyo, as Arroyo is a pretty good pitcher now and would give the rotation needed depth for the next four years. Not sure I believe that would happen, though; why would the Reds trade him? Don’t they need pitchers too?
If it’s Tom Hanson…
I’ll puke?
No, too cliche, something worse.
Set fire to the press box?
Kyle, Davies is only 23 years old. He is younger than James, younger than KJ, younger than Yunel (who knows how old he actually is), and he is only a year older than Frenchy and McCann…and you are ready to give up on him?
Lerew is only 24 and I still haven’t given up on him. So, there is no way I am writing off Davies.
Puke on your copy of Built to Win?
If we get the top 2 trade targets at the deadline with only giving up 1 current major league caliber player that is some really good GM work.
“what league level is Teheran at now?”
Nuclear?
Seems like it will indeed be Davies for Dotel.
No love for Glavine & #300 in the ATL?
http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/braves/stories/2007/07/30/glavine_0731.html
mraver and urlhix,
Getting there, and no, I happen to like my Built to Win book, even though it’ll be a while before I even pick it up again. 🙂
ububba,
Tom Glavine doesn’t deserve to be booed, I don’t think. He’s obviously held to a different standard than Franco because of the 1994 strike.
The boos should only fly if he goes to the Hall of Fame in a Mets cap.
Sam, that will never happen.
kc,
It would if the Hall people go nuts and think his 300th is more important than what he did in Atlanta. ;P
Sam,
It’s not up to Glavine which hat is bronzed with his head on his HoF plaque. But there’s no way he’s going in as anything other than a Brave.
I thought that was an interesting story with several perspectives. Of course, if you look at the very unscientific on-line vote, over 70-percent support ol’ #47.
Me, I appreciate everything he did for the Braves. Hate that he’s a Met, but what are you gonna do?
If Gary Sheffield makes the HOF, what team is on his cap?
Perplexing question.
ububba,
I know that the Hall decides what cap he wears. I agree that it was an interesting story too. In fact, I can say that I completely agree with you.
braves14,
DAMN, that’s a good question… I guess he’d have to be a Marlin.
He’d be their first, I think.
Looks like the other pitcher going to Texas is Harrison after all, so long as the Rangers are satisfied with his arm.
From DOB:
One of the pitching prospects will be Matt Harrison, provided the Rangers are satisfied that his recently sore shoulder is sound. They’ll examine medical records closely and might wait to see him pitch a couple more times.
The Rangers could substitute another pitching prospect if not pleased with Harrison, though Jo-Jo Reyes isn’t available in the pool they can pick from.
One thing working against Arroyo is he just re-signed prior to the season. He would be much more attractive under the terms of his deal he made with the BoSox before they shipped him out of town.
” Arroyo gets base salaries of $4,125,000 this year and $3.95 million in 2008, figures set under the old contract. The extension includes a $2.5 million signing bonus that will be paid next year.
Arroyo will get salaries of $9.5 million in 2009 and $11 million in 2010. There is a club option at $11 million for 2011 with a $2 million buyout. The option can escalate to $13 million, based on innings. ”
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2758621
Yeah, Rip, Arroyo will cost probably three prospects again because of the contract.