That’s what he’s indicating:
“Not many more. This year and next year, and that’s it.â€
It was as emphatic a statement as Cox has ever made about his future. Retirement is a topic he generally keeps blurry, by design.
Cox maintained he could change his mind, but it almost came off as an obligatory qualifier — and ran counter to comments in an otherwise remarkably candid interview.
“I’d like to start doing the things I need to do instead of the things I want to do — like manage,†Cox said. “I don’t need to manage — I want to manage.
“I still love it. I feel great. I want to do this year and next year, and then probably hang it up.
“I haven’t really told anybody this. But it’s what I’m thinking. We might win the World Series this year and next year. But I’m pretty much convinced, that’s it.â€
I know that Bobby has his detractors, but they’re wrong. He’s the greatest manager of the last 50 years and losing him is going to hurt the ballclub.
No question about it. But all that means is that we need to get someone like him. Someone from within the system to keep the continuity?
Fredi should’ve stayed two more, I’m thinking Pendleton is probably next in line
Despite a number of in-house candidates to replace Mazzone, the Braves went for an external option. I wouldn’t be surprised to see them do the same with Cox. It’s kind of early for specific predictions though, I have no idea what the managerial landscape will look like in two years.
They might need an in-house candidate who knows the Braves system to replace Bobby, unless another veteran outside manager can learn it fast.
Only the greatest manager in 50 years would pinch hit Todd Pratt for Brian McCann in the 9th inning, or ever.
Only the greatest mananger in 50 years would stick with Chris Reitsma as his closer
Only the greatest manager in 50 years would hit Marcus Giles leadoff
Only the greatest mananger in 50 years would platoon so many times when it is detrimental to the team
Only the greatest manager in 50 years would platoon Ryan Klesko in the playoffs.
Thousands more reasons to come…………..
A true Braves fan would never say anything positive about Bobby Cox once the season starts.
Who we get to replace him, of course, depends on who we’ve making those decisions at that point. It’s not a sure thing that JS is going to be here in another two years’ time. Wow. If the streak ended last year, Smoltz leaves after this year, and Cox is gone the year after…. that’s a lot of Braves continuity to have moved on in a small period of time.
David, nobody is perfect. Despite his shortcoming in the postseasons, Bobby has plenty of strengths. I still see Bobby being very hard to replace.
David – whom would you pick?
A true Braves fan would never say anything positive about Bobby Cox once the season starts.
What an utter, complete crock of crap. Go tell your thousands of reasons to the effing wall.
a true Braves fan gives credit where its due! Bobby and JS deserve most of the credit for the 14 straight titles. Maybe some people forget what it was like before they got here, a true Braves fan is thankful and appreciates their dedication and hard work. Same goes for the players over that span of time…
Only the greatest mananger in 50 years would stick with Chris Reitsma as his closer
Only the greatest manager in 50 years would hit Marcus Giles leadoff
With respect to these, what were his options? David, you’re a fool.
David, you’re not the first person to criticize Bobby Cox, and you won’t be the last. His in-game decisions have often seemed suspect, and he’s always been a bit overreliant on things like lefty-righty matchups, double switches, pinch hitters/pinch runners, platoons, and all sorts of other things that can often look simply idiotic if they don’t work out.
His style isn’t well suited to the NBA-style playoffs that baseball has adopted in recent years, because he’s always been concerned with winning 162 games; it’s much easier for a Wild Card team to catch fire at the end of the season and sustain it for 3 more weeks than for the team that actually WON the marathon to keep running as hard as they were in July.
There’s a reason the Braves won 14 straight division titles. The reason becomes a lot clearer when you look at the crappy teams we fielded 2003-2005. I think the meaning of what Mac meant by “greatest” is this: Bobby Cox has had a greater positive impact on his teams’ won-loss records than any other manager in the last 50 years. It’s been an honor and a privilege to root for his Braves, and I’ll miss him. Let’s see if we can use his retirement to fire up the team to win one more for Bobby.
A true Braves fan would look back in awe of what Bobby has achieved in the last 15 years. No other professional coach or manager has come even close to what he has accomplished. And for those of you who have no idea what its like to have to watch Russ Nixon manage a Braves game, let me tell, Bobby is the best manager of the this generation.
I’ve been fortunate to see the Braves with Bobby Cox as manager the whole time that I’ve been a Braves fan. I understand what kind of manager he is and sometimes, what he does boggles my mind. But that’s Bobby. That’s the way he manages: old-school and by the book. It seems to defy all logic and reason sometimes, but who am I to question the ultimate result that he has gotten since taking over the team in 1990? Only last year he seemed to fail because almost nothing went right. Murphy’s Law took over.
David,
You must have an axe to grind and I won’t call you a fool because you have an educated opinion. Who hasn’t been mad–sometimes really mad–at our manager?
But Bill James profiled Bobby in his book on managers and his standards are pretty high. Bill asked: How does he manage during the game? How does he handle the 25 man roster daily? Then, how does he manage the 40 man roster?
Bobby does all of them well. Players play hard for him. I don’t ever remember his team running out of gas and getting passed in September.
Lord help the umpire that gets “rabbit ears” or goes looking for one of Bobby’s players. If the opposing defense looks a little rattled or lax, Bobby will put on the squeeze, for sure.
I know I’ll sure miss him!
I figure he’s just hanging around to set the getting thrown out of the game record. As soon as he has that, and is confident that someone like piniella won’t pass him in a few years, he’ll hang them up.
Can you imagine if some other team, say-the marlins, were able to lure him out of retirement 5 years from now. I’d probably hang myself.
David :
Andruw :
“That’s my dad. He’s such a great manager. I don’t know if I could ever play for somebody else who could be as great as he is as a person and a manager.”
Laroche :
“I got to tell him how lucky I was to play for him, what an honor it was to play my first three years with him and the guys I got to play for in the organization, learning how to win from them.
Guess who they’re talking about …
Anybody thinking about what his pronouncement might mean to Smoltz or Andruw?
Andruw is looking for 6-8 years, and if there was a thought in his mind about staying in Atlanta, he probably knows Bobby would likely retire during that contract. But knowing Bobby won’t be there for even HALF of it, I think this might encourage him to set sail.
Smoltzy on the other hand, if he’s really thinking about this being his final year in Atlanta, he might actually be encouraged to stick around until Bobby’s gone, just so he can close out the era, and be there to win Bobby’s last game.
David–I agree with the sentiments (and more important the arguments in this thread) expressed here. Best manager in the last 50 years? Maybe, but there is no question that the he will be next to impossible to replace.
To malign Bobby Cox is to capitulate to the critics who make say that the Braves should have won more than one World Series; however, these critics should try to see how many teams won divisional titles 5 years running and then they can pair down that list by trying 10 consecutive years and once they do they can get a measure of what Cox has achieved.
I’m going to pile on David’s stupid comments too.
David, i’m not going to say anything…just let Bobby’s win-loss record and his accomplishments do my talking for me.
No one here needs to defend Bobby Cox. 14 division titles in row is clearly indefensible!
#6 should be alongside #3, #21, #35, #41 and #44 in a matter of years. 🙂
The comment from Andruw is pretty important – Bobby may be the main thing that’d lead Andruw to give the Braves a hometown discount. Knowing Bobby is leaving will reduce the chances the Braves can keep Andruw.
Colin,
Oh well. No skin off my nose.
Bobby actually has 15 consecutive division titles because he won the division his last year in Toronto.
Not counting his “half-seasons” in 1990 and 1994, of course. 🙂
Ned Yost will be the next Atl manager.
Atlanta background, Cox protege, ML experience.
#28 – I dont think I would mind that at all….
xdog,
You know, that’s not a bad idea!
Oh, if anyone cares, James gave up a run in a two-inning start, but that’s all the Braves gave up. Buddy Carlyle had another good two-inning stint.
Just to let everyone know, John Smoltz and Tim Hudson are about to be on ESPN, talking about, well…the Braves.
Peter Gammons on Baseball Tonight
“A lot of people are having the tendency to write off the Mets because of their starting pitching”
What?
Bill K.,
… wow. That is not what I’m hearing. I’m hearing that their super-duper offense will carry them through whatever pitching woes they may encounter.
Everyone was picking their “who to watch” teams in the NL East. (Steve Phillips had Atlanta, I think all those years watching his Mets teams lose had an impact on that), and Kruk had the Phillies for obvious reasons. When Gammons was turned to, I think he was trying desperately to sound more insightful than “The Mets are probably the favorite in the division by everyone.” Regardless, he sounded like a fool trying to put a positive spin on a team that’s gotten so much it’s still trying to stabilize.
There isn’t a manager in the history of baseball that can’t be criticized–Torre, Joe McCarthy, John McGraw, anyone. It’s absurd to take isolated decisions by Cox–some admittedly bad–out of context and use that to demean his managerial ability. For one thing, baseball strategy, IMO, is highly overrated. While managerial decisions can affect a game here and there, in the long run, it is far more important how the manager handles the pitching staff and, even more, how he handles the team. It’s obvious that Bobby Cox is a nonperil at this. I mean, even Gary Sheffield has only good things to say about Bobby Cox. It’s sad that, because of October losses–to some very good teams–that some fairweather fans don’t understand what the Braves have had all these years.
Oh, I’ll definitely say that Cox is as bad as anyone else out there at making lineup decisions, etc. But I really don’t think that nets out a lot of wins or losses regardless of how bad his calls are. Tactical managing is, IMO, one of the most over-hyped issues out there. Stuff like keeping your players happy and relaxed is far more important, and that’s what Cox does well.
Before anyone else attempts to convince us that the Braves would’ve done better with another manager during the past 16+ years, let me toss some names out there for you.
Remember Chuck Tanner? How ’bout Russ Nixon? Clyde King? Connie Ryan? Eddie Haas, anyone?
A Little Perspective: Between 1966-1990, the Braves finished first exactly twice & never won a post-season game. In 1988, there were one of the worst teams you’ve ever seen in your life.
I remember the Marty Perez Era. I lived through the Ken Oberkfell Era. I’ve been a Braves fan since 1970 & we never, ever had it so good with anyone else at the helm not named Bobby Cox. You can quibble with this or that, but I give the man a ton of credit for the club’s success.
In my view, it’s a shame that there are any Braves fans out there who don’t.
I understand that perspective, even though I started getting into baseball in 1991 and was lucky as hell to catch on when the Braves got good, like I have said before. But my parents knew how bad they were and how good Atlanta had it with Bobby at the helm.
Anecdote: We were listening to the news in the car and it was said that the Braves had revamped their coaching staff. The first thing out of my dad’s mouth was, “They had better not have fired Bobby.” They hadn’t. This was part of the revamp where Clarence Jones was fired and replaced with Don Baylor, I believe. I just thought at the time that Bobby was a great manager and it would have been stupid to fire him and replace him with the rumored Davey Johnosn.
I understand that perspective, even though I started getting into baseball in 1991 and was lucky as hell to catch on when the Braves got good, like I have said before. But my parents knew how bad they were and how good Atlanta had it with Bobby at the helm.
Anecdote: We were listening to the news in the car and it was said that the Braves had revamped their coaching staff. The first thing out of my dad’s mouth was, “They had better not have fired Bobby.” They hadn’t. This was part of the revamp where Clarence Jones was fired and replaced with Don Baylor, I believe. I just thought at the time that Bobby was a great manager and it would have been stupid to fire him and replace him with the rumored Davey Johnosn.
I like the Ned Yost call on Bobby’s replacement, but another name to remember is Eddie Perez. I hope Yost gets the nod.
Managers do much more than in-game tactics — Bobby is decidedly middle of the pack at those. Proper evaluation of the manager, however, requires insight into all the facets of his charge and how they effect the team in the short (inning-level or game level) middle (season level) or long term. Most managers are incapable of combining their vision of the three levels into a systemic plan and thus are unable to sustain success. Bobby is probably the best long term manager in baseball history (only John Mcgraw is really close) and one of the best at season-level management (1993 anyone?) Anyone who thinks that his glad-handing and player management skills are the secret of his success are ignoring his most valuable skill. He will be missed.
@38 I’m with you. I’ve followed the same teams and experienced the same frustrations. Bobby Cox may never be seen as the greatest innovator, tactician, or strategest but he will be seen as one of the best managers in the history of the game. Lets not forget his contribution to the start of the run as the team’s general manager.
Bobby took some great teams into the post season, but he also got some good teams to over achieve and advance further than the prognosticator’s thought they would go.
@38, ububba,
I would have to say in my time (and the era you specify) we have had one other very good manager: Joe Torre. He was effective in Atlanta and even though he has had the benefit of the big payrolls, he has been good in New York.
Otherwise, former Braves managers aren’t in Bobby Cox’ league.
After reading through this thread, I don’t think David will be posting here again. Unless he chooses to fall in line. 🙂
This news of bobby is a bummer, but at the same time seems a little anti-climatic to me. He will be one of the biggest losses we’ve had in 15 years and IMO have the largest negative affect on the team. At the same time I am encouraged by some of the young guys we are grooming right now and the fact that they’ll get to play for Bobby at least a few years.
BP’s missing player comment on Bob Wickman:
“Acquired for the sole purposing of anchoring the bullpen, Wickman put up some ridiculous and unrealistic stats as a Brave. His 12.5 K/BB and percentage of stranded runners stick out the most; that would be some new level of performance for Wickman, at this or any age. His groundball rates returned to pre-2006 Cleveland levels during his stay in Atlanta, but his .269 slugging against probably won`t hold throughout a full season.”
Weighted mean prediction: 2-3, 13 saves, 4.28 ERA in 41.1 innings. I’ll take the over on saves, over on innings, and under on ERA, please- especially if his ground ball percentage stays as high as it was last year with Atlanta, which they predict it will.
It’s not the opinion that bothered me so much as getting a lecture as I sat down with my Sunday morning coffee. Tactical decisions are always open to question.
But I think anyone who’s spent a significant amount of time managing a staff of people, in any field, should look in admiration at the loyalty and respect Cox has engendered during his time here. Getting quality players to want to play for him, and who want to stay once they get here (we’ve gotten more than one “hometown discount”), is a truer measure of his greatness, and has added more W’s, than any particular in-game decision you might point to.
By the way, David (if you’re still around), you’re not the only person to criticize Bobby Cox roundly here. My counterpart, the First Alex R., is on the record saying that the Braves would have done better in the last 15 years without him. So you’re not the only one who holds that viewpoint. Feel free to stick around and post whenever you like: we try to encourage all sorts of viewpoints (as long as they’re not about politics or religion). The only requirement is that you like the Braves, which you obviously do.
Welcome to Braves Journal.
AAR,
Double that.
Come with an opinion, come with some ammo to back it up, be ready to scrap—but be nice about it. 😉
Cliff,
Yup, Torre was good & his results were better than just about any other Atlanta manager, except No. 6. A strangely short career in Atlanta—89, 88 & 80 wins, I think.
Maybe I will run the team after Bobby steps down. I will get to spend a lot of time with him on the bench this year. I promise I will take notes when I am not getting Smoltz coffee.
Smitty,
Will you be the one to teach Frenchy the strike zone?
Another nice NY Times obit for an old ballplayer, Clem Labine (a fave on my 1953 Brooklyn Dodgers APBA team), who lived to see 90.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/03/sports/baseball/03labine.html?_r=1&ref=obituaries&oref=slogin
smitty,
i heard gruden had offered you to the starting QB, but you turned him down becase he would’nt give you the jet and that you insisted on only wearing thow back jerseys.
care to comment (before i take you in the draft i would like a feeling as to which way your leaning)
The Braves’ website has expanded their list of NRIs. Some guys in camp of whom I was not aware:
Ryan Basner
Will Startup
Joe Winkelsas (bring enough weed for everyone?)
James Jurries (bring enough steroids for everyone?)
I commented in a thread some weeks or months ago how young Brent Lillibridge looked. It is worse than I thought.
1st pick – ARod or Soriano?
“I mean, even Gary Sheffield has only good things to say about Bobby Cox. ”
That’s one of the funniest things I’ve read in quite some time.
mlb rumors..
Interest In Pavano
Yesterday I mentioned that Carl Pavano had his first healthy effort this spring, a major step towards a trade. The Cards, Rockies, and Mariners have expressed interest in the past.
Today, a George King report indicates some other possible suitors. King mentions that scouts from the Braves, Mets, and White Sox attended the game at which Pavano pitched. Whether they were there to watch him is an open question, but it is reasonable.
A cross-town trade would be particularly interesting, although the Mets are not short on Pavano-like options.
Carl Pavano plus $16M (he’s owed $21M over the next two years) for Jarrod Saltalamacchia?
How about more like Carl Pavano plus $50M for Jarrod? We could finally tie up Andruw with the Yankees cold hard cash?
Brian J., @46;
That’s what I consider to be the pitfall of PECOTA; it’s much better for batters than it is for pitchers, since pitchers are so hard to predict.
We don’t want Carl Pavano and for more reasons than salary.
I don’t like him either, but if he just fell into the Braves’ laps, I wouldn’t object.
Provided he didn’t get a hangnail or two in said fall, of course.
Craig Wilson just hit an opposite field double that scored both B-Mac and Frenchy…Braves lead 2-0.
Pete Orr with an RBI single…3-0 Braves.
Thanks Jay, I think we’ll like Wilson
No problem…yes, I have a feeling this Wilson guy will be sticking around.
CHIPPER!…2-run double…5-0 Braves.
We batted around…McCann singles, scores 1, but Chipper is thrown out at home…Braves lead 6-0 at the end of the 2nd.
Wickman is on to pitch now…
Cormier pitched well this afternoon, going 3 innings, gave up just one hit (in the 1st inning), struck out 3 and walked 1.
I can’t remember where I received this information, but I remember hearing that Terry Pendleton was a high candidate to replace Bobby after his departure. I think it was back when other teams wanted to interview TP for a manager job but we wouldn’t let them, not sure though.
is anyone listening to the game…the stadium announcer sounds loike he’s introducing monster trucks instead of batters.
GREGOOOORRR BLLLLANCOOOO!
I missed majority of that last inning…I came back and all of sudden it’s 13-0.
Robert Fick just went yard…3-run homer….13-4
RRRRRRRRROBERT FICKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK!
Who did Fick take deep?
I’ll guess Jonathan Johnson or Joey Devine, but I really have no idea
I think Paranto
It was Harrison.
well there you go
why did Francoeur decline the 1st offer?
http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/braves/stories/2007/03/04/0305bravesrail.html
I have been gone again for a while so I am going to address the earlier topic of Bobby Cox.
I am certainly one of his biggest critics in terms of his abilities as an in game decision maker. Since most on here are passionate Cox defenders, I certainly will offer a more dispassionate P.O.V. and say that with his age and time in Baseball, it’s not unrealistic to finally see an end game for him.
I do like the Ned Yost idea–it’s been brought up here many times over the last few years and I think Yost would seriously consider it. I also feel that Terry Pendleton, while not a great hitting coach, might be a better Manager because that’s more about delegating and double switches and overall strategy–and maybe they could hire someone else who’s more adept as a hitting coach.
The other alternative is that if Fredi Gonzalez does a nice job in Miami but is limited by payroll constraints (not that the Braves are the Yankees) he maybe tempted to be a candidate here by then.
Finally, I am not going to sit and re-read every comment, but did anyone mention Glenn Hubbard? I think Glenn could be a natural and he’s done a lot of great individual work with people, is really tough and hard nosed and is well respected. I see Glenn in the mold of a Phil Garner type manager.
As for Bobby, let’s just look at the glass half full and focus on 2007. We clearly have the BEST bullpen we have had in ages, and I am anxious to see Bobby given the chance to now manage with a group of guys who are actually semi competent at the end of games.
So while I was critical of his extensive use (past expiration dates) of pitchers such as Kolbb and Reitsma, Bobby now has the luxury of using guys like Soriano, Wickman and Gonzalez, which will hopefully allow him to be even more relaxed as a Manager. As nervous as I am right now about Hampton’s injuries and the inexperience of some of our offense, I am elated about our bullpen and can’t wait to see us close some leads out this year. For that, I give us a better chance going forward then I have in previous years.
I think our pen can matchup with ANY in the National League this year. And even if Hampton is iffy, I think it’s fair to say that our rotation can easily match up and surpass the current groups of starters from the so called favorites, the Phillies and the Mets.
And for the record, I agree with my buddy AAR, that we should always try and respect and allow various points of view. It’s always healthy to have a debate, a friendly one.
Ah, an Alex rant. Spring is here!
To be fair, Smitty, Alex wasn’t ranting. But I share your sentiment–it’s great to see Alex posting on here again. Must mean baseball’s around the corner!
Chipper say it ain’t so!
I think chipper has gone a little crazy with his thinking about his diet and physical prep for the season. i can hardly see where eating candy bars and cookies’n cream milkshakes is a rational move for him. sure maybe 3 hours a day working out is a little much, but carrying extra pounds isn’t gonna help those bunyons.
i’d also be willing to bet that the problems he had with his obliques last year were due to poor position caused by his body trying to compensate for the pain in his feet.
Chipper is one of my favorite Braves, i’m sure will still hit above .300 this season and hopefully play in 120 games, but he’s got to be say’n this just for the story.
http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/ajc/sportscolumns/entries/2007/03/04/chipper_optimis.html
if Chip plays 130 this year, Ill be surprised
I’ve suspected for some time that Francoeur may be kinda dumb. This story is another data point.
Francouer may not be a bitter hitter, but I am pretty sure from the cuts he has been taking this spring that he is not a better hitter.
man, I like Chipper, but he sounds real dumb in that story. I have been pointing it out for a while now. What about how much power he was able to generate last year even in his limited PT? think that had nothing to do with his conditioning..