Too early to make decisions; just enjoy the sun | Braves
I really like DOB, and his interpretation of spring training is pretty much on line with my own:
Trying to make a point that it’s folly to even begin to base personnel decisions on what we’ve seen _ or you’ve heard about _ from a couple of weeks of workouts and a handful of games in Florida.
Or even after we’ve seen four weeks of games in Florida, in most instances.
And by that I mean, some players have track records that are going to supersede what uproven players do in spring games, especially in early spring games when half the pitchers they’re facing won’t be on opening day rosters.
That said, Prado (5-for-9 before today) and Escobar (5-for-10) are off to strong starts in camp. But I don’t know whether either had or has much chance to make the team unless there’s an injury or projected second baseman Kelly Johnson shows he just isn’t ready.
‘Cause they’re practice games, people. O’Brien is also very high on Brent Lillibridge, as am I; I am probably going to do a brief comment on prospects some day this week, with Lillibridge as a focus.
When it comes to Spring Training, injuries are generally the only things that get close attention from me.
This year, I’m following Hampton’s progress, but really just to see if he can pitch at all.
The vets I don’t worry about.
KJ? DOB’s right—as long as he doesn’t completely humiliate himself in Spring, he’ll get the chance to do so in the regular season.
I just read the Chuck James article on the ajc today. A good article and it makes Chuckie out to be a cool, down-to-earth, I-install-windows kind of guy. However, I found his obliviousness regarding opposing hitters to be a bit alarming. If he really had no clue who Todd Helton was, then I’m guessing he didn’t go over the scouting report. Does he really toe the mound and pitch the same way regardless of the hitter? Rest assured that when those hitters face Mr. James this year, they will know who he is and his pitching tendancies, so shouldn’t he spend time learning about them?
From what I’ve read most of the great pitchers today do their homework (unless you are Greg Maddux and have encyclopedic knowledge of your every prior match-up against a pitcher). I just don’t see how James’s stuff is good enough to pitch to Albert Pujols the same way as to Neifi Perez.
I like spring training because it’s entertaining and sometimes encouraging. 🙂 I would think that spring training is a show of how talented an entire organization is, to some extent. The Braves have some talent so far. 😉
O’Brien really is doing some good work. Nice to see Prado get off to a nice start, as meaningless as it might be. He’ll get his chance before too long, here or elsewhere, and I think he could have Jeff Treadway’s career.
MikeM ~ There are a lot of great pitchers who will tell you that to succeed, they need to pitch to their own strengths, not to the hitter’s weakness. Part of Steve Avery’s downfall is he started to try to outthink the batter (and runner – his slide step killed the speed & movement on his heater) instead of just rearing back and throwing. Mariano Rivera throws the same cutter over and over again. Tom Glavine would toss a circle finger low and outside to every right handed hitter regardless of their strengths. To quote that great baseball philosopher Crash David, “don’t think, it can only hurt the team!” While I wouldn’t recommend it for everyone, that approach may be right for Chuckie J.
Poor little Matt Harrison gave up four runs, three on them on a Robert Fick homerun, in the fifth inning today. Oh well.
Bob Wickman and Mike Gonzalez had scoreless innings.
Robert Fick and Mike Gonzalez nearly got in a fight:
http://www.ajc.com/news/content/sports/braves/stories/2007/03/05/0306bravesrail.html
George Mason gives away a 5-point lead late and falls in the CAA Finals to Virginia Commonwealth. Cinderella won’t repeat. Somebody new gets the slipper this year. Hofstra? Winthrop? Southern Illinois?
I pick Georgia Tech 🙂
If they even get there; some doofuses are saying they have to win one or two games in the ACC Tournament to get there.
Bobby’s quote in that article says it all, doesn’t it?
Good pick, Godot!
I think they are a lock after the win thrashing of BC this weekend…
and our first game in the acc tourney is wake.
should be able to handle that if thats really the test
Robert Fick has absolutely no class. And judging from Cox’s comment, I’m inclined to believe Fick acts like that often…
Fick’s moment of shame.
The Fick archives.
Good points bamadan
Didn’t Fick try to fight Maddux one year? I may be making this up…
“Chuckie James just be Chuckie James.” Great quote from Pena. I like James’ attitude and it doesn’t seem to bother his teammates so I don’t have a problem with his laidback style.
I hope that Soriano’s shoulder is not a real cause for concern. Somehow, I think that to be wishful thinking. Apparently, the problem is possibly chronic since he spent time on the DL for it last year:
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070305&content_id=1828985&vkey=spt2007news&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl
At this point, I am just glad that we have a deep bullpen…
Saw a great band in Brooklyn tonight: The Thermals (from Portland, Ore.)
Real melodic, power-poppy punk, Kinda like Superchunk, but more political. Lotsa songs clocking in at 2:30, one after the other.
They’re headed South–Chapel Hill, Atlanta, Birmingham, etc. Recommended.
“Political” bands… ugh. Pass.
As soon as James gets hit hard everyone will question his style.
I think Bobby doesnt want Cormier as our 5th starter. Asked about Lance’s performance, Bobby just says “Good.” Then starts raving about Chad Paronto. Looks like our pitching rotation and bullpen is set, unless we have some injuries. Davies 5th starter, Paronto and Yates grabbing the final two bullpen spots. I really think that Prado can win the bench spot over Woodward and Orr. We’ll keep Diaz, Langy, and Wilson as platoon partners and bats for the bench.
Fick sucks…
#22
You might be right about Prado, csg, but I think I’d rather have him starting at Richmond every day than sitting on the bench in Atlanta. He’s still developing, which you certainly can’t say about Woodward.
Stu has recently convinced me to support the third option for the bench spot. Go L’il Tony!
Lil Tony might be just right for the bench. He has speed for pinch running, he has a glove, which probably allows him to take over either 2nd or SS in late inning defensive mode, and he isn’t going to develop much more at Richmond, unlike Prado. So, I’m on board with that.
#24 – agree
I haven’t seen much on how Kelly is taking to 2B, except the batting practice ball-to-chest incident. Anyone seen him or read anything that sheds some light on how things are going for him?
Jeff – I’ve just read some of the articles on the Braves website. The 1st game they mentioned that he had no balls hit to him, but he misplayed a throw from McCann. 2nd game he had more action, no errors and no DP chances…
Thanks. I guess he’d have to be dismembered not to be our opening day 2B.
Hey Mac,
Is there an Email address one can use to send you a message?
Is Woodward’s money garenteed? Do you think there is a possibility that they’d let him go in May in favor of some of our younger talent. don’t know…just thinking alound.
Flournoy,
I don’t guess you guys got to see too many good bands over there at the North Avenue Trade school. You’d think the “math rock” bands woulda at least played The Varsity.
Reply to the Woodward deal.
Sorry, this doesn’t really answer your question on whether or not his money is guaranteed but this is his contract.
signed deal for 2007 season worth $850K on 12/20/06- + he can earn up to $525K in performance bonuses for reaching a max of 500PA- + 2006 salary: $825K, 2005: $700K
Agent: Jeff Kahn
I would be in favor of releasing him, he doesn’t appear to bring anything to the table except veteran presence(which we have plenty already) and his need at 2nd, SS and 1st base aren’t really needed anymore with us having Wilson, Pena Jr, Prado, Harris etc.
#19 and #20…
There’s the girl that I like.
Now it appears that she likes another guy.
It must be because he’s political and stuff;
I bet I could be political, too.
Also, speaking of technical metal from Atlanta, Mastodon is easily one of the 2 or 3 best rock bands on the planet.
I saw in the second ST game vs. Pirates. It’s tough to say how well he has adapted though. He didn’t mess up, however he didn’t exactly make it look easy either. I know thats not much of an analysis but with only a few groundballs thats all I could get.
sorry, referring to KJ in #35.
The Thermals rock…you guys should really check them out they give a great show.
I think they’re playing ATL on friday at either the Earl or The Drunk Uni
@21
So, Smitty, does that mean you give a green light for Lance Cormier to start?
There’s an email link on the sidebar under “Author Contact”. You know, there’s also a “discuss music” thread…
Kelly Johnson scored after Willie Harris’ RBI single(Harris is starting in left and hitting 3rd for some reason)…Braves 1-0. Still no one out in the top of the 1st, bases loaded for Scott Thorman.
Thorman struck out.
Renty scored on Yunel Escobar’s sacrafice fly. Braves lead 2-0.
Chipper, Andruw and McCann all getting the day off today.
Kyle Davis isn’t looking too good right now. Just gave up a a 2-run Double to Brian Schneider luckily Travis Lee was thrown out at home. We’re tied, 2-2 at the end of the 1st.
Davies so far, 1 IP, 2 hits(both doubles), 2 BBs and 1 K.
I’m loving how Kelly Johnson is playing. 2-2 so far, just hit a RBI double that scored Davies and the Braves lead again, 3-2.
excuse that, Davies was held at 3rd, but he just scored nevertheless off of a Renty sac fly.
Willie Harris with a RBI double, Johnson scores, 4-2 at the end of the 2nd. Also Frenchy hit a foul ball and it bounced off of a wall and hit an usher in the head, Pete was able to get out(in between laughs) that she stood back up and is fine.
Fun Fact: Colby Lewis sucks…and I mean really sucks.
#34: Mastodon \m/
According to Baseball Prospectus, Kelly Johnson is going to have one heck of a good year.
Jay, where are you able to listen to the games?
Wryn,
MLB.TV
jay thanks for the updates, keep em comin
I don’t care how Johnson plays on March 6, I care how he plays on April 6. It’s way to early to get excited or discouraged about performance.
End of the 3rd, no hits, Langy walked and Corky Miller hit a ball about 403 feet, only problem is the wall was 404 feet. Still 4-2.
Davies day is over, he went 2 innings giving up 5 hits, 2 runs, 2 walks and struck out 2. Bobby wanted Davies to go three but he threw a lot of pitches.
Macay McBride is pitching now. Oh and Pete just said McBride is going to be getting about as much innings as a starter this spring because if Hampton can’t go he will likely replace him.
Marc,
That’s true but it’s still comforting to see Johnson playing so well even if its only the second week of spring training games.
Sorry bout the delay…I couldn’t post for some reason.
And just like that, McBride gives up the lead, Nats lead 6-4 after a Schneider 2-run homer and before that Travis Lee doubled home a couple of runs.
Finally that inning is over, McBride gave up 4 runs, 4 hits and walked 1.
We got 1 run back off of a Frency sac fly, 6-5 Nats going into the bottom of the 4th.
Macay has the pictures.
I’m still having problems posting, is it just me?
Yunel Escobar and Ryan Langerhans hit back-to-back HRs and the Braves take the lead 7-6.
Blaine Boyer is pitching now and he put in a scoreless inning.
Willie Harris is having a great game, 3-4, double, 2 RBIs, 2 stolen bases and an outfield assist.
Smitty,
Regarding yesterday’s obby Cox post, I wasn’t ranting at all???? AAR, thanks for syaing that. I am not saying I will NEVER rant again (I would hate to disappoint Stu, most of all) but I was making an effort (if you read it) to actually talk dispassionately about Cox, and most being positive?
Also, I agere with the sentiment of this room that Robert Fick has NO class.
If Bobby Cox, the most patient and positive man alive (hell, he even likes Gary Sheffield and has never said a bad word about Kenny Lofton or Tony LaRussa, who both have dissed Cox publicly) has a negative word about your personally, then there’s something to it.
I may have been critical of Bobby’s in-game managing, but you can’t argue with how well Bobby treats his players publicly and privately. That’s been a staple of Cox for all these years.
Re: Chris Woodward
I agree with releasing him if we have enough, cheap, in house middle infielders doing the job. Why block say a Prado or Lil Tony who are no worse then equally as useful and spend more on a mediocre hack like Woodward? Let the Mets have him back.
Speaking of what relievers are looking good so far, Bobby has also said he’s very happy with what he’s seeing from Chad Paronto, who did look pretty good at times last year so he may yet be a useful addition to the bullpen now for 2007.
Let me say again for the record I am really stoked about our ’07 bullpen and the bullpen is one of the reasons I actually feel good about our chances now. I consider a bullpen like a great offensive line in football…it may not be the glamour job, but if you don’t have one, it doesn’t matter how good the rest of your team is, you won’t be a playoff contender.
Escobar is definitely trade bait
Offensive line play in football is more important than a team’s bullpen in baseball. Offensive line play would be more along the lines of team defense.
Kevin Barry had a 1-2-3 inning, striking out 2 and getting another to pop out.
Wryn…I think the value is relatively even. And very comparable. The ‘pen is protecting the starting pitching performance, the star pitcher, and the OL is protecting the team’s QB.
If you have an average to below average offensive line, your QB becomes David Carr. If you have an average to below average bullpen, you post on Braves Journal everyday how John Smoltz is arming himself to go after Kolbb (2005) or Reitsma (2006).
http://www.al.com/auburnfootball/huntsvilletimes/index.ssf?/base/sports/117317621891110.xml&coll=1
Auburn WR Tim Hawthorne injured in Sunday morning car wreck, 1 killed. Good quote by Tuberville at the end.
Corky Miller hit a 2-run homer to make it 9-6 Braves.
Kevin Barry with another scoreless inning. Braves lead 9-6 going into the top of the 8th.
McCarthy scored from third on Matt Diaz’s infield single, 10-6 Braves.
I gotta agree with Wryn, Alex. Actually, offensive line play is more important than team defense and the bullpen put together. It’s the single most important element in football. Trust me on this: after the last several years of watching Bob Connelly’s coaching you would know how important a good offensive line is.
Prado to Lillibridge double play for the second time today. We could be hearing that combo a lot in the coming years.
Mac…there’s no question a good offensive line to a team is critical, and I know you are using Bama as an example, but you have to look at the Braves of the last 2 years and in comparison, look at a mediocre team like the Cardinals winning the World Series or the Tigers getting there) each with studs setpping up in the pen.
How many games did the Mets bullpen bail out their up & down rotation last year?
I realize it’s all reative to the sport you’re talking about, but I can’t bring myself as a Braves fan, to say the bullpen isn’t at least equal to the importance of a good offensive line.
And believe me…as a Georgia fan, I have witnessed to some very good & bad offensive lines so I know how hard it is to win games when a QB is running for his life!
I hope not. If Prado’s our “future second baseman,” something’s gone horribly wrong.
I think the better football analogy to the bullpen would be the place kicker. End-game, clutch situations, ruin the good work of lots of other teammates, etc.
Stu,
I not so sure KJ is gonnna be durable enough.
Also, the term “squirrelly” is often associated with both kickers and closers. Random, I know, but it’s another point that’s random to my comparison here.
I could buy the placekicker thing. That’s a fair comparison also.
So, does that mean Norwood is Dutch for Kolb? or Reitsma?
Prado to Lillibridge double play for the Third time and it ended the game, Braves win 10-6.
Braves improve to 5-1.
WP: McBride(1-0)
HR: Yunel Escobar(1), Ryan Langerhans(1) and Corky Miller(1)
beedee,
To be fair, has Kelly Johnson really reached the stange in his very young career to be overly worried about his durability?
I believe KJ is only 25 yrs. old. Mark Prior and Kerry Wood…that’s two players who can be deemed to be NON durable. If Kelly has another lost season due to injury (bite my tongue…) then we should worry.
My spidey sense is telling me Kelly is going to have a breakout year for the Braves and become our everyday 2nd Baseman but if this isn’t the case, people can hold this post against me!
Alex R,
i would agree with most projections for this season, but i guess where my greatest concern lies is that he’s a big target for guys going into second. i really hope he works out. Not try’n to put any bad mojo on him, i’m just say’n he’s got a history of elbow and knees issues, 2nd base may not be his long suit.
The man who just can’t disappear with grace…
http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/braves/stories/2007/03/06/0307rocker.html
It makes perfect sense, though, doesn’t it?
Talk about a “dog bites man” story….
I was at the game today. If the Braves could only play the Nationals 162 times, I think they’d be a pretty good lock for 1st place next year.
Avery…if only! Plus, if the Braves played the Nationals 162 games, that means as a Northern Virginia Resident, I would get to attend 81 of those games. I might actually have to buy season tickets 😉
By the way, I would like everyone on BravesJournal to remember THIS article next year when Andruw asks for ‘fair market value’:
http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/braves/stories/2007/03/06/0307andruwcar.html
Personally, I think that much of a display of wealth by any athlete is ridiculous. I guess ‘Druw needs that huge contract next year, beyond even what we can offer, so he can make car payments.
Also, my advice to Andruw…if you are trying to convince the Braves to ‘pony up’, showing off in the AJC with 6 tricked out cars may not be the most effective method.
Avery…if only! Plus, if the Braves played the Nationals 162 games, that means as a Northern Virginia Resident, I would get to attend 81 of those games. I might actually have to buy season tickets 😉
By the way, I would like everyone on BravesJournal to remember THIS article next year when Andruw asks for ‘fair market value’:
http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/braves/stories/2007/03/06/0307andruwcar.html
Personally, I think that much of a display of wealth by any athlete is ridiculous. I guess ‘Druw needs that huge contract next year, beyond even what we can offer, so he can make car payments.
Also, my advice to Andruw…if you are trying to convince the Braves to ‘pony up’, showing off in the AJC with 6 tricked out cars may not be the most effective method.
computer issue–sorry for the double post.
Mcbride might be pitching his way into AAA, if he doesn’t right the ship…
The steroids for Rocker was given to him by his doctor after rotator cuff surgery. He wasn’t even a Brave at the time.
I don’t really take any particular lesson about Andruw per se from that article. He also does a lot of good works with his money.
They all make a lot. What else is new?
Southern Miss no-hits Bama in baseball 5-0 tonight.
If the choice is between Andruw getting a few extra luxuries and the Fulton County Schools receiving the funding, or nurses at Grady Hospital making a couple dollars more per shift, or soldiers being properly equiped, or a landfill being reclaimed, or especially if it were a choice between ‘Druw and Tuscaloosa college librarians being paid a living wage, its a no-brainer that Jones shouldn’t be asking for the money. Instead, its a question of whether Andruw gets it or Liberty Media keeps it. I’d rather have the players I root for become fabulously well paid for the joy they provide me than for an annonymous corporation pay a few more members of the board a few more bonuses.
I dont think its an issue of whether Andruw getting it or Liberty keeping it. Liberty looks as if they are going to give the Braves 80-85 mill and they’ll let JS fill the roster with it. The way I look at it, I dont want Andruw to get 18-20 mil of this budget for 6-8 years. If he gets 20% of our payroll, we’ll be in trouble. Liberty doesnt care one way or another, their cost will be the same.
Agree with Bamadan. Andruw is no different than movie stars, CEOs, or anyone else with a lot of money. If you have it, you spend it. Let’s face it, is it any more frivolous for a guy making millions to buy lots of cars than for normal people taking out second mortages to go to the Super Bowl (as some Eagles fans did a couple of years ago)? Andruw has a skill that is highly valued and that very few other people have and in our society, he gets rewarded for it.
It’s amazing to me how many people don’t realize how important the offensive line is in football and they end up blaming the quarterback when things go wrong. Without a good offensive line, you might as well not take the field. But, in today’s baseball, that’s almost as true about the bullpen. You simply can’t win without at least a reasonably strong bullpen and it has become even more important since 1991. The Braves pitchers used to throw a fair number of complete games and lots of innings. That’s more and more rare. I think the Yankees’ bullpen (especially Mo, of course) had more to do with their postseason success in the nineties than anything else because, otherwise, they weren’t THAT good.
Two things that leapt out at me from the game summary on ajc.com:
1) “Meanwhile, reliever Rafael Soriano (sore shoulder) soft-tossed at camp. Cox insists Soriano is “fine,” though no date is set for his spring debut.”
2) “After Davies and McBride were knocked around, the Braves got five hitless relief innings from Blaine Boyer, Kevin Barry and Joey Devine.”
I’m trying to prepare myself to get used to a LOT of arm trouble and indefinite returns to the field from Rafa Soriano. But I’m hoping that maybe–just maybe–Blaine will be able to help us this year. And, hell, if Joey Devine gets his head on straight, and finally gets a full year in the minors, maybe he’ll be able to help us one of these days too.
My thoughts (responses from the previous post):
Bullpen:
I disagree with the comparison of a bullpen to an offensive line. I can’t think of very many NFL (or college) teams that are successful with a bad O line. However, I can think of some successful MLB teams with a bad bullpen. In fact, I can only think of a few teams that have a bullpen that I’d be comfortable going to war with. Personally, I’d rather spend most of the money on Starters (220 innings) than spend money on relievers (60 innings).
Andruw:
We should probably stop kidding with ourselves. he’s as good as gone. Liberty Media most likely won’t increase payroll. AJ may make claims such as “I want to end my career a Brave” but by saying such things he is trying to drive up the price other teams will pay for him. Look at Vernon Wells recent contract extension (7 yrs, 126 million, i think). Andruw will not be wearing a tomahawk after this season.
Joey Devine:
IMHO, The sooner we trade him, the better. His value is only decreasing.
Agree about Andruw, disagree about the bullpen. Some teams have been able to remake their bullpens in the middle of the season, such as the Red Sox in 2004. But I can’t think of any team that was actually real successful without at least an adequate bullpen. The Braves bullpens in the 90s weren’t always great, but they were at least decent.