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this is different that what I heard…
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=rotowire-ndruwonesravesurnedo&prov=rotowire&type=lgns
apparently we turned down the Andruw trade, according to this source!
Hmmm, I read that on the Chop Nation. I am kind of shocked we did that
They say there that the info comes from the AJC…I think they just misread the AJC.
I agree with you Stu, I think they misread the article.
Its time to have a shut-out. We haven’t had a shut-out since May 1st against Colorado. We won 2-0
Yeah I don’t believe the Braves would have turned down that trade. Either the Red Sox didn’t want to part with Lester in a Lester/Crisp for Andruw trade (can’t blame them) or they couldn’t make the more complicated deal where they flip Andruw to Houston for Oswalt work. In hindsight, the Sox have to be kicking themselves with the injuries to Nixon and Varitek. I have to think they are in trouble to even make the postseason now especially with the Yankees getting Abreu and Lidle and possibly getting Sheffield and/or Matsui back later. Maybe the Sox would want to make a waiver claim on Pratt? /crosses fingers
Well it is easy to miss read the AJC.
DOB’s blog use to be really good. Now he gets on there and gets really pissed with people and starts bashing them. He should just ignore them, but I guess he is tired of that.
The AJC is really a lot less informative about the Braves than they were three moths ago. DOB was always a little bit of a homer, but of late if you get on and say anything from “Betemit’s age is listed wrong” or “Trading Andruw for those guys would be a good move,” or even the “Gosh, our starts suck and we should push Hudson off a cliff.” He really goes off.
Yeah, Smitty, he’s really stubborn (and really wrong) about Betemit’s age. And he does spend way too much time mocking some of the commenters.
Something interesting I just discovered about Oswalt…
He’s going to be 29 next season… Hudson was 29 last season. Hudson’s most-similar at 26 and 27 is Oswalt.
I’m just saying.
Heh heh heh, he’s going down the tubes soon, then.
Should the Astros worry about a gambling problem? (See #7)
I’m one of the major contributors on ChopNation – I go back and forth, find the best of both worlds, and use each site as contributors. Hope ya’ll don’t mind and it’s okay. If I directly quote from one/other, I’ll normally cite the source.
I think the Astros have a lot of worries right now
Hmm. A lot of those similar pitchers flamed out early in their 30s. Just more support for my belief that the Braves should unload Hudson on some foolish big payroll team (paging Brian Cashman!) in the offseason.
Here’s what I wrote about that Hudson comps list before the season:
I think Hudson is hurt
Mac,
Hudson’s comps through age 29.
1. Jack McDowell (952)
2. Dennis Leonard (944)
3. Mike Mussina (941)
4. Bill Lee (934)
5. Gary Nolan (934)
6. Doug Drabek (933)
7. Jack Morris (927)
8. Freddie Fitzsimmons (926)
9. John Candelaria (926)
10. Kevin Appier (925)
There are a large number of folks on this lists that had complete meltdowns right around age 30. While I know that age 28 is generally thought to be when most players have their peak year, a lot of these guys didn’t have a gradual erosion of skills. The wheels came completely off.
This is a big concern to me, as we may be witnessing Hudson sarting to lose it this year. None of the guys on this list who fell apart ever really got it back together.
Morris had one more good season (age 36) and ate up innings every year, but his ERA + numbers weren’t good.
Mussina has been solid into his late 30s.
McDowell, Drabek, Leonard, Lee, and to some extent Appier and the Candy Man fell apart in their age 29, 30, 31 seasons and never matched their earlier numbers.
Nolan, of course, nuked his arm so he is a little different situation.
Ron Darling was a comp prior to this year and he lost it at age 27.
We are on the hook with Hudson for 32 million (6, 13, 13) over the next 3 years.
This could be a Mike Hampton type contract situation. If he doesn’t start pitching better this year, I think we should salary dump him this offseason.
I think McDowell has him screwed up. Its going to be interesting if the Cards pitching coach can change him around.
Well, I see this discussion has passed me by while I was looking through baseball-reference.com
Sorry for the redundant nature of the previous post.
Sorry, I was making a reference to Sosa in the second part of my post.
who would you rather have starting for us, Shiell or Cormier? Do we not have any other options in AAA. We might as well let Villareal get a start. Check out Thursday’s match up:
Thursday: Braves (RHP Tim Hudson, 8-9, 5.25) at Pirates (RHP Shawn Chacon, 5-3, 7.00),
wasnt Hudson that lost to Russ Ortiz?
Where’s Travis Smith when you need him
http://msn.foxsports.com/cfb/story/5836224
I’ll take over this thread I guess. Miami has 4 starters suspended for their 1st game against FL ST.
I think we need to let the vulture start some. I think he could be good.
I think we need to let the vulture start some. I think he could be good.
I could go for that. Beats watching Horacio crap the bed again. Sheill’s been okay, but now that he’s been scouted a few times it will probably get worse.
More people who could crack our starting rotation:
Ozzie Guillen
Jose Guillen
Jose Canseco
Ozzie Canseco
Izzy Alcantera (would literally crack it)
Heathcliff Slocumb
Steve Avery
Steve Blass
Steve Karsay
Steve Reed
Steve Smith
Stephen A. Smith
Stuart Scott
Is that Steve Smith, former Hawks guard, or Steve Smith, current Southern Cal wide receiver?
Former Hawks guard.
I would take both Steve Smiths. Imagine the range the WR Smith could cover off the mound! Plus if he got on base, that would be an automatic two stolen bases. It would be like Willie Mays Hays on Major League.
All of you Oklahoma fans, ESPN Radio just reported that OU’s starting QB has been dismissed from the team for working fro a private compnay that paid him for hours that he didn’t work.
Smitty,
A no-show job? I’m shocked.
Those are always my favorite kinds of stories. It reinforces my idea that nearly all bigtime collegiate athletic outfits are just inches away from being a Sopranos episode.
I’ll take over this thread I guess. Miami has 4 starters suspended for their 1st game against FL ST.
As long as we are throwing stuff like this around. Oklahoma starting QB Rhett Bomar dismissed for taking money. link
Bad news for Adrian Peterson’s Heisman run, opponents can really stack the line now.
Somehow I didn’t see Smitty post right there.
That is why I love college football. It is the only sport where the fans can actually have a role in the out come.
Well, yeah, if you’re not counting Jeffrey Maier or Steve Bartman.
Mac, Hudson went to my rival’s high school, and I have seen him for many many years. Since he went to that private school for 4 years and Auburn for 3, I will gladly claim all of Tim’s bad characteristics as the Glenwood Gator in him.
No joke – it’s the most redneck high school ever. I once played a basketball game there my senior year and had a 70-year-old woman in the first row cuss me out constantly, holding up signs telling our players and fans to go to hell.
WRYN! THAT IS GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You should have known it was a trash school when you saw their mascot was a Gator…
Wryn,
Don’t forget that Hudson also went to Chattahoochee Valley Community College (CVCC).
I grew up just across the river in Columbus, Ga., and one of my best friends was a star Glenwood footballer & I hung out with some of those Glenwood people. They’re called the Glenwood Gators, but their logo is the Green Bay/UGA “G,” but colored orange.
They always were pretty good in sports, sent some players up the ladder to college, but they played in that Alabama private school league, which is another conversation for another kind of forum.
As a former HS jock, I can easily say that just about every school in that area had a pretty major redneck element, even the private schools like Glenwood.
Shut up, Smitty. 🙂
You guys have to watch this
http://www.everydayshouldbesaturday.com/?p=2266#comments
Is that guy really gay and Austrian, or is it all a show?
He’s Ali G.
Jerry Rice also went to CVCC. Why can’t Hudson be the Jerry Rice of baseball?
Scratch that. Not even close. Mississippi Valley State. I should know better than this. I shouldn’t have stopped taking my medicine.
Stu, Should I trade Smoltz doe F. Cordero and J. Vazquez?
doe = for
Yikes I just got the cowboy warning
Dix, no! Vazquez sucks this year
Unless you desparately need saves, no way. Still, even if you need saves, I don’t know that Cordero will make enough of a difference to make the Smoltz-Vazquez dropoff worth it.
Cowboy warning?
How’s our CBS team doing, Dix?
we need to wrap up this series tonight!
Why can’t we hire Billy Beane to be our GM? He knew Hudson and Mulder were done and got rid of them just in time. He must be laughing now. It’s hard to believe that a guy that is one of the worst pitchers in the National League has a big contract kicking in next year. I’m not optimistic.
The “big” part of the contract doesn’t kick in until ’08. He “only” makes 6 million next year, which, while a lot of money, isn’t ridiculous in this market.
Marc, what about Ortiz and Wright we also got rid of them at the right time. I think that’s why JS hates signing pitchers to mutli year deals, I know the Hampton and now Hudson deals dont look very good.
If anybody’s interested, I’m calling a Glenwood football game on radio in early September – live and free online. Maybe I can get a game thread?
we should have kept Dayton Moore, he’s going to be very good for KC
@54
I don’t think there was anything the Braves could do to keep Dayton Moore from leaving.
Oh yeah, I would rather have a guy who has wona division a couple of times and done nothing else than a guy who has 14 strait division titles and two WS rings…
Unfortunately, I know, but he’s good
So much pessimism… I don’t even know why I go here.
Smitty, I just want both of them. It is a pretty good combo
Too late for that now, isn’t it?
Sam, it’s only from a few. The vast majority of us aren’t constantly calling for someone’s job.
who’s calling for a job?
I’d like a job!
I would like a different one
I’m a fan of Billy Beane and can appreciate the wonderful job he’s done with limited resources, but he is not some infallible super genius. He makes his fair share of bad moves, too. Giving Jason Kendall 6/60 was one of the dumbest moves made by any GM this decade.
what’s the worst deal given in baseball? These come to mind
1. Alez Rodriguez
2. Carlos Beltran
3. Mike Hampton
4. Chan Ho Park
any others?
Billy Beane has never done anything wrong in his life and how dare you say anything about the greatest GM in all of sports history. I have no idea how Billy Beane didn’t make it to the major leagues as a player.
Darren Dreifort and Kevin Brown come to mind.
Beane played 148 games in the major leagues. He didn’t play well, and he probably shouldn’t have made it, but he did. Not that playing ability has much correlation to baseball front office management. Beane’s major league playing record is similar to Branch Rickey’s.
csg, I was talking about Marc, not you.
Park or Hampton. Probably Park, since he just plain sucks.
Having the Schuerholz Royals win the 1985 World Series was the beginnning of the end.
First Schuerholz sat on his hands throughout 1986 in the belief that the 1985 team was playing at its level in 1985. In fact, it had been barely a .500 team over the four previous seasons and was badly in need of new blood. Only Concepcion and Biancalana among its offensive players were younger than 28. Saberhagen, Jackson, and Gubicza were terrific young starters, but the offense was about falling off a cliff. The Royals had a 76-86 record in ’86, with the AL’s 2nd weakest offense.
Then Schuerholz got manic. Trading for Danny Tartabull and (infamously) trading away David Cone for Ed Hearn. Result: 83-79 in 1987, with the AL’s worst offense sabotaging a great pitching staff.
Back to the trading block: Danny Tartabull gone, Kurt Stillwell arrives. Melido Perez and three others traded away for Floyd Bannister. Result: 84-77 in 1988, never in telescope range of the A’s, with an average offense at best.
Sign old free agents: Bob Boone, Bill Buckner. 92-70 in 1989 is better, but still well behind Oakland. Average offense and merely good pitching despite a great season from Saberhagen. And the team deteriorated from there (which we can’t blame on JS obviously).
JS deserves credit for learning from his past- there have been no Cone-for-Hearn trades in his Braves tenure. But JS never built or created a great team in Kansas City. He had a decent one that took advantage of a weak AL West in 1985. The ’80s Royals were usually deficient on offense, which Schuerholz never corrected either through trade or the draft. We’re worried that we’ve seen the same phenomenon play out here, with JS not building for greatness but for adequacy.
Don’t forget Mark Davis; the twin Davis contracts (him and Storm) definitely need to be in the worst-contracts-ever discussion. Especially considering that they already had Jeff Montgomery.
Beane made the majors for the same reason Josh Booty did- there was a first-round pick invested in him, and he’d get several extra chances that a 10th round pick wouldn’t.
Bobby Cox is another illustration of mediocre players becoming good-to-great managers and front office personnel.
And Darren Dreifort’s 5 year/ $55 million deal after 2000 deserves meniton. Record in those five years: 9-15, 1 Sv, 4.64 ERA, 205.2 total innings.
I wouldn’t mind being given $55MM for nothing.
Mo Vaughn, sucky deal. Bruce Sutter wasn’t too hot for us.
Brian, I don’t want to say I told you so, but I did say “Darren Dreifort and Kevin Brown come to mind” in comment #68.
Can’t we mention Drew Henson? 6 years, $17 million… never reached the majors. Jeter swallows!
Yeah, but he had to give a bunch of that money (the vast majority?) back.
Oh really? I didn’t know that. Rats.
a few more
Milton 3/26
T helton 9/141
JD Drew 5/55
Christian Guzman 4/16.8
Denny Neagle 5/51
I’d go with the Dreifort contract. Absolutley nothing for that money. Everyone knew it’s was a terrible deal before the ink was dry.
On the radio out here (in LA) they were saying that the Dodgers and Red Sox had a deal worked out before the deadline for J.D.Drew but he used his no trade to block it. Probably for the best, I don’t think J.D.’s laid back attitude would have played too well in that fishbowl.
Shawn Green 6/84
Albert Belle 5/65