ESPN.com – MLB – Box Score – Braves at Pirates
I was able to watch the eighth and ninth innings tonight with relatively few palpitations. It’s mysterious, but I almost had… confidence in the bullpen. I may be suffering from some sort of mental illness. I’ll have it checked out.
The Good Horacio was in the house tonight — I think he’s a bit of coward, really, and only shows up to face teams like the Pirates — retiring the first eleven batters he faced (with a little help from Andruw on defense) before giving up a single and double with two out in the fourth to score a run. The Braves, shut out to that point, came back to tie with back-to-back doubles from LaRoche and Pratt, but LaRoche strained his hamstring (he was running slowly even for him) and had to leave the game.
Horacio tired, and loaded the bases in the sixth before getting out of it. Diaz homered in the seventh to give Horacio the lead briefly. However, with two out in the seventh, he allowed a walk and a single and Bobby came in with Yates. (Why Yates and not Paronto? I don’t know. Ray wasn’t with the team today because of a death in the family.) Yates immediately gave up a single for the Grybo, then walked the bases loaded, before getting out of it.
Aybar, silent to that point, led off the eighth with a double. Marcus laid down a terrific bunt and beat it out. Renteria scored the run with a groundout flyout. Enter the professional relievers. Baez 1-2-3 in the eighth. Wickman 1-2-3 in the ninth, with a strikeout. Yates gets a completely undeserved win.
Okay, it’s only the Pirates, but it’s something. Day game tomorrow.
THis would have been a loss between April and June
Rent scored the winning run with a fly ball, but I love you anyway.
What are the matchups tomorrow?
Hudson vs. Chacon.
Mac, I agree with you absolutely on two things:
1) HoRam is indeed a coward. He can’t handle Leo’s scolding, and he can’t handle the pressure of facing the Mets. I was going to to write HoRam would be a perfect ace for teams like the Royals.
2) I believe I am suffering from the same mental illness as you are suffering.
So I”m not holding my breath.
Joe Simpson was bashing Ramirez on radio. He said that Ramirez was quoted as saying he was “too amped up” for his last start against the Mets. Joe said Horacio has been in the majors too long to do this sort of junk, that he needs to stop making excuses.. then when Horacio didn’t back up the relay throw on the RBI-double to make it 1-0, I thought Joe was going to have a stroke.
On the “Kim Jong-Il Front”:
[name redacted] has pitched 2 innings for the Cards tonight, his only mistake being a HR by Rowand. Hoping he pitches the next inning, to give Utley a good shot at extending his streak (0-3 so far)
The bad news is that the Phils are winning 8-2.
Wryn, I believe his Mets’ performance has disgusted a lot of people, including me. I don’t know why, Hudson and James didn’t pitch well either in that series, but…just the way he responsed to Leo’s exit, and the way he reacted to the Mets game…he is definitely not one of my favorite Braves.
Let’s not forget that HoRam had a pretty impressive win at Yankee Stadium this year. He hasn’t done that much, but he did that.
A new calculation: Baez/Wickman—W, Baez/Wickman—W, hmmm….
I’m as perplexed by Horacio as anyone else, but his performance at Yankee Stadium was a beautiful thing. He’s no coward — he’s just wildly inconsistent.
ububba, maybe he doesn’t feel any pressure pitching against the Yankees because he expected himself to lose.
Mets and Marlins in a wild one – Mets led 6-0, Marlins trimmed it to 6-5, now the Mets have the bases loaded and 1 out in the top of the ninth.
In Cincinnati, the Dodgers lead by 2 going to the bottom of the 9th.
Are you sure Aybar hit a double? I think they gave Bay an error.
The Mets had the bases loaded, nobody out for Wright, Floyd, and Valentin and failed to score.
Momentum is all Marlins. Bottom 9 now, 6-5 Mets.
Meanwhile, Brandon Phillips is the only thing in the way of the Braves being 4.5 back. 5-3 LAD with 2 out in the 9th.
Yeah they did give Bay an error.
We’re 4.5 back – Dodgers win 5-3.
Simpson was at his best tonight on the radio. As someone mentioned above, he said that Sosa may get his first chance to pitch with St Louis. He said that if that happened, it would give Utley a great chance to extend his hitting streak.
Helms just singled off Wagner to lead off the 9th.
Wes Helms leads off the 9th with a single for Fla. Now they’re trying to bunt.
kc,
I was at that game & there were 50,000 other people who expected him to lose, too—but he didn’t. I was inspired for a minute.
Unbelievable. Wagner hit the next guy while he was trying to bunt. FIrst and second, nobody out.
Brian Moehler, pinch hitting, HBP.
Like someone mentioned last night, I guess we need to be rooting for the Mets to beat the Marlins.
Girardi has Hanley Ramirez try to bunt. Three fouls, three strikes. Not Girardi’s greatest moment.
Karros was thinking about putting [Name Redacted] into the Cardinals rotation, his reason “Sosa had 13 wins LAST YEAR”…
Go ahead LaRussa and Duncan, HAVE AT IT.
Baez and Wickman are poor man’s version of Gordon and Rivera.
Which means we are rich. Or at least out of the horrific pverty that beset us from 2005 to mid 2006.
Marlins lose.
Cardinals now trail the Phillies 8-7 in the 7th
Aaron Miles?
Pujols at the plate representing the go-ahead run, but grounds into a double-play. We do know Utley is guaranteed one more shot.
Braves reach .500 tonight–on the road. Hey, it’s something.
BTW, tonight was not Sosa’s first appearance with the Cards. He pitched an inning and a third last night.
Gotta give him a hit there.
Oh mercy, Utley’s hit streak goes to 34 on what should have been scpred a fielder’s choice. Hometown scoring in St. Louis.. er.. nvm.
That lucky sob, base hit my SOUTH ALABAMA ASS.
ITS BEEN REMOVED!!!!
They changed it to a fielder’s choice.
Cards are losing.
Nope, that’s a hit.
That’s not an FC & because the pitcher was slow to first he beat it. Lucky, yes. But that’s a hit.
They gave it back to him, Dimaggio is doing 3,000 RPMS in his graves.
As for hit/not a hit in our game, the play-by-play says it’s a double, but the box score indicates hit and an error. I dunno.
Since he came off the DL, Horacio has been the Braves second-best starter after a Smoltz, with a 3.89 ERA over the last two months compared to Smoltz’s 3.72 (Smoltz has tossed about 15 more IP over that span). Horacio has started 12 games since he came off the DL, allowing 3 ER or fewer in 9 of them (8 quality starts, and another that would have been had it not been 10-1 Braves by the fifth), and imploding in the other three.
I guess what I’m saying is, people might consider laying off the amateur psychology BS and cutting the guy a little slack. He pulls off something with smoke and mirrors instead of striking people out, so his bad starts probably have less to do with “being afraid” than they do with him simply being on the wrong side of the very fine line his peripherals force him to tread every five days.
Once again tonight Cleveland’s closer Fausto Carmona is Mr. Meltdown.
Up by a run in the 9th, he strikes out the first two Boston batters. Then he hits the next two guys (!), a walk to Youkilis and a 2-run double from Loretta. Reee-diculous.
Adam’s being his own doctor…
“It’s a real high hamstring (injury) — I tore it pretty good last year, so I think some scar tissue ripped in there. This is like the third time I did this since I initially did it last year. It’s nothing I haven’t had before. It’s always a day or two and then it’s back to where I can play again.”
I certainly hope you stay healthy and remains hot. The Braves can’t afford another 0 for August from you again…
ububba, that sounds like Reitsma…wait, Reitsma could never get to two outs…my bad…
“Enter the professional relievers.”
Nice. I wish I could have heard that LAST YEAR when the team was in the PLAYOFFS.
JoeyT, that tells me a lot about what you think of Mr Farnsworth…
The problem, Colin, is that instead of giving up three runs a game, he’s rotating between being good and very bad. Hence, the Good Horacio and the Bad Horacio. During that stretch, he’s had games of 1 2/3 IP, 7 R; 1 IP, 7 R; and 3 1/3, 5 R. 12 starts, in three of which he’s put the team in impossible or near-impossible (since the last was the Mets) positions.
Or… Horacio has allowed 38 runs this year. 24 of them came in four starts (his first, and the three I mentioned) — and in none of those games did he make it to the fifth inning. In two he didn’t make it to the third. All together, those starts represent nine innings. He’s thrown 60 2/3 innings in his other nine starts, in which he’s allowed 14 runs, 11 earned, for an ERA of 1.63. (It’s late and I’m tired so this may be slightly off.)
It’s not normal to have more than a third of your starts be complete wipeouts.
Well, one bad start out of every four starts…that should be good enough for being a good fourth starter…however, that would be too expensive when his salary jump to $4M range next year.
Laroche goes down.
But we still have Baez and Wickman…
WE GONNA LIVE!
I reckon one horrific start every few weeks should be good enough for Horacio to be the Braves fourth starter; actually, it might make him good enough to be the second starter – at least this season. But I agree, I’d be surprised to see him here next season for $4 million.
Nice win tonight… now if only someone could curse Utley, Philly deserves nothing.
Adam M. makes an excellent point.
Philly deserves nothing.
Can’t curse Utley. He busted his ass on that play. If you’re gonna curse anyone, it’s that Cardinal pitcher who took his sweet time trying to throw out a fast, left-handed hitter. I’m glad he got the hit. He’s a helluva player & I like to watch him play.
professional relievers… haven’t had those in a long time..
HoRam was definitely testing the fences and OF defense tonight, mainly in the 1st and 2nd. 3 straight hit fairly deep to Andruw in a spacious park, I know Francoeur caught one awkwardly at the warning track by the scoreboard. To his credit he worked his way out of most of it. To his discredit, Chris Duffy leads off for the Pirates, with a line of .186/.245/.265. That’s like Dewayne Wise on Ambien.
Are you trying to rain on parade???
May the curse of a 1,000 nagging wives haunts your dreams.
I’m a hardened HoRam skeptic. It’ll never get old.
Very good bounceback, though, and certainly far better than against the Mets. Hopefully he can improve just a little bit more for his next start, because I’m not sure whether those flyballs would carry elsewhere or not.
Heck, he was even striking guys out for a while there!
I’m a hardened HoRam skeptic. It’ll never get old.
Well just put your feet up for a few days because you’ll be needed after Horacio next start against Brett Myers and the suddenly crushing Philies. That could be rough.
Let’s not let a good start against the pathetic Pirates mean to much here. It’s still Horacio we are talking about.
When HoRam throws inside and gets it in and not down the middle of the plate he has that crafty lefty effect.
When he doesn’t, he becomes [Name Redacted] jr.
Our best bet for solid pitching for the rest of the season is Smoltz.
Ramirez is our 2 guy, James our 3rd, Hudson 4th, Shiells 5th.
Hudson needs to throw breaking stuff, and get the ball down.
If we can just get the ball to Ray, Baez, Wickman we might have a shot at this sucker.
Don’t forget the game Horacio threw against Philly in Citizens Bank bandbox on Sunday night baseball with the whole world watching: 1 R in 7 ip. Pretty good for a “coward” that he can pitch that well in the spotlight. As far as the Mets go, their good and he wasn’t the only Braves starter that struggled last weekend! So it’s alright for Chuck James and Hudson to struggle in the same series, but not Ramirez?
[DELETED]
And who gives a chit what Joe Simpson thinks! Was he any good when he played? About the only thing he’s remembered for was holding George Brett back from the umpires after the pinetar incident. F him!
— Bravesfan1
Wow…
Ramirez was great last night. When the good HoRo is around, things are good. Clearly the key for him is location. When he is hitting the corners and more importantly keeping the ball down in the strike zone, he is an effective major league pitcher. That was fun to watch. Here’s to hoping Hudson comes back from the dead today. Normally I would say I like our chances against Chacon, but things have been so unpredictable this year.
We all hate Hudson these days, there is nothing he does that is “all right.” Chuck James doesn’t have a track record of sucking, unlike Horacio Ramirez.
Bravesfan1, do not do that. And if you try anything like this again, it will be deleted and you will be banned.
Racism?! That’s the last thing in my mind. Perhaps you are thinking too much my friend.
I think when HoRam is on, he is great. If we make the playoffs, I think he would have to be our number two starer, as of now.
As for Joe Simpson, I think he is one of the best color commentators around. I know that the competition is weak (Morgan, McCarver, Torborg) but Joe adds a lot to the game and he is usually dead on about things.
Horam is what he is–a number 4 starter. That means, in today’s baseball, he is going to be inconsistent. It’s not fair to expect Horam to dominate a team like the Mets when Hudson, the ostensible ace-in-waiting gets crushed. Horam isn’t a great pitcher by any means, but the days are gone when the Braves have four number ones in the rotation. As for being a coward, that’s hogwash. I think it takes guts to go out there with as little stuff as he has. His problem isn’t lack of courage, it’s lack of talent. I’m far more upset about Hudson than I am Horam. Who has had more quality starts in the last two months?
HoRam doesn’t entirely suck, that’s the whole point. Saying good HoRam/bad HoRam just illustrates the frustration of watching a pitcher suck so bad one day and be good the next. I think inconsistantcy deserves more criticism then sucking does. When you suck you just suck, when you’re inconsistent it’s infureating. Using the word coward to describe him was just a comical way to explain which HoRam shows up to pitch.
I should point out that the antecedent for “he” in my statement was “the Good Horacio”, the figure of myth and legend, not the actual human being, who may or may not be a coward.
I think it is time to start refering to Hudson as good Tim/bad Tim.
I like Joe, too, mainly because he pulls no punches. He calls out bad umpiring and he calls out players who don’t hustle. I enjoy listening to him.
Also, like most here, I’m going to enjoy these victories while we can get them. Some here seem insistent upon pointing to the negatives and trying to bring everyone down. Look, this team is 6 games under .500 — we all know that’s not good and that our chances are slim. Still, we have some hitters (though the LaRoche injury is a tad worrisome) and we now have an above-average bullpen (watching Baez and Wickman makes me want to cry). It ain’t over. I just don’t get what you hope to gain from all the negativity.
And I agree with ububba about the Terrifying Chase Utley. He’s a great player, and he’s fun to watch. I’m cheering him on, too.
Horacio had one bad year last year after an injury. Before the injury people LOVED the guy his rookie year in ’03 and the first two months of ’04 he was leading the NL in ERA. This year 2/3 of his starts have been quality. Some of his struggles could be attributed to his hamstring. But being a “coward?”
I just think that’s way off base when your talking about a guy that got smoked by a line drive off his head and comes right back throwing quality starts since then. He’s pitched good games against more than just teams like the Pirates if you look back. He pitched well against Arizona(who’s 1/2 back in the WC, 7 ip, 2 r) @ St. Louis(5 ip, 1 r before hamstring problems), @ Philly on Sunday night two weeks ago(who’s got a good lineup despite their record).
As far as the racism comment, i’m just wondering if there’s some racism involved from these Horacio haters, i’m not saying there is for sure. Just wondering.
— Bravesfan1
Wait…there’s a good Tim?
I sure as hell hope there is, for what he costs.
I’ve always liked Simpson too, but lately I’ve been thinking that he may have “Old Announcer Skills.” His cranky old man comments have gone off the charts. Lapses in fundamentals have been treated like degenerative moral failings, and, whenever he mentions that new-fangled WBC, you’d think that KGB agents were hypnotizing innocent young Iowa farmboys into thinking they wanted to have rotator-cuff surgery in Cuba as part of some diabolical commie plot to destroy baseball and the American Way.
I don’t mind really, it adds color, but the guy is only 50-some. If he doesn’t rein it in a little, he’ll fall off that “Get out of my yard, you whippersnappers!” cliff well ahead of normal career arc.
What bugs me about Joe is that he sometimes acts like the ideal way of hiting is the way that allowed him to hit .242 .289 .317 in a nine-year career…
JOE: Andruw’s been working with TP on hitting the ball to the opposite side, which will really help him.
SKIP: And there’s a drive! It’s to the upper deck in left field! Braves lead!
JOE: See, it’s because of the threat of the single to the opposite field that Andruw was able to hit that ball 500 feet to dead left.
You know, Mac, I wish I were able to edit my comments like you. Then all my misspellings, extra commas, and misquoted statistics could just disappear. 🙂
It’s easy. There’s even a little link next to the comment.
Really? Where?
Horacio’s got 1.55 WHIP , 4.23 K/9, and 1.24 K/BB.
In comparison, Chuck’s has 1.33 WHIP, 6.12 K/9, and 1.79 K/BB.
Horacio may be the team leader in luck though, if you don’t count getting hit in head by a liner.
I mean, it’s just for me. Or anyone else with admin privileges, I guess.
Oh, that’s what I thought.
Bravesfan1 needs to stop it with the horse**** “racism” accusations.
Horacio does suck, just less than Hudson, which wasn’t true last year when he sucked Horacio.
*sucked less than*
Quite the Freudian slip, there.
typing not my something I excel at.
Freud was an idiot.
He was mostly an idiot, yes.
But the term “Freudian slip” has a common meaning, whether he was right about the cause of one or not.
I know that, I’m a misspelling, *skip* spelling, jumbled words type of poster.
I type fast and sometimes get ahead of myself or behind myself, and sometimes to the side.
When I slow down I can be more effective and less an atrocity toward the English language.
The problem, Colin, is that instead of giving up three runs a game, he’s rotating between being good and very bad. Hence, the Good Horacio and the Bad Horacio. During that stretch, he’s had games of 1 2/3 IP, 7 R; 1 IP, 7 R; and 3 1/3, 5 R. 12 starts, in three of which he’s put the team in impossible or near-impossible (since the last was the Mets) positions.
I don’t mind pointing out that he can be bipolar. But still, since coming off the DL he’s been good Horacio three times as often as he’s been bad Horacio, and that’s worth more than a lot of people think. So he’s had three bad implosions – over that same span he’s had _6_ games in which he’s allowed 1 or 0 ER. That’s 6 staff-ace type games in 12 starts to go along with 3 implosions, 1 2 ER game and two 3 ER games.
I don’t think it’ll continue (thus my smoke and mirrors remark above), but since he came off the DL Horacio has given the Braves excellent chances to win in half of his starts, very good chances to win in another quarter, and has killed them in a quarter. That’s a heck of a lot better than anyone except Smoltz.