I am actually working on a treatment for Braves Pride, wherein Alex R. (Matthew Broderick) and I (Donal Logue) kidnap Leo Mazzone (John Ashton) and try to brainwash him into coming back to Atlanta. Alternatively, we kidnap Roger McDowell (Carrot Top) and put him on a slow boat to China.
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Game Thread Vice: Marlins at Braves, July 27
July 27, 2006
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- StephenW on Braves 6, IWOTM 4
- Alex Remington (Another Alex R.) on Braves vs. Mets Series Preview
- Rob Copenhaver on Braves vs. Mets Series Preview
- StephenW on Braves vs. Mets Series Preview
- Christian Roberts on Braves vs. Mets Series Preview
I think I’ve heard this one before. The little-known Nirvana B-side, Leo Mazzone Will Have His Revenge On Atlanta.
Contrary to popular belief, Leo doesn’t walk on water.
Comparing the Braves team ERA to the O’s, the Braves 4.65 is a half a run better than the O’s 5.15.
Of course i’m telling this to a bunch of people who think a book written by JS is the reason the Braves are struggling.
BTW, Baltimore is next to last in both the AL and in all of baseball in team ERA, whereas the Braves are 9th out of 16 in the NL and 18th in baseball in the same category.
Leo could not have made Judy Reitsma a good pitcher this season. Leo preaches that pitchers have command of the low and outside stike. This bullpen is made up of guys who have enough trouble throwing any strikes at all. Leo would not have made Chad Paronto into Mariano Rivera. I don’t think he could have made him much better than Chad Paronto. I’m done with reliving the past and ready to move on to the future. Until we get more pitching talent, we don’t know what kind of pitching coach McDowell will turn out to be.
Though I like Mac’s film idea, I want it to be publicly stated I disagree with his negativity towards Roger (Andi) McDowell.
I am not saying McDowell has done a great job, but he did fix a hitch with Hudson earlier in the year and he has seemingly done a far better job with Horacio then Leo did.
Second, the bullpen plain stinks. We were on the verge of being terrible in 2005 and it wasn’t Leo’s pitching coach brilliance that won us the division last year–it was an MVP run by Andruw and a bunch of offensive kids who saved our hides.
The bullpen would be terrible with the ghost of Cy Young trying to teach them. It doesn’t make a difference who the coaches our–this is John Schuerholz’s fault, NOT Roger McDowell’s fault, contrary to belief.
And I don’t think a change from a gruff personality to a nice, easy going McDowell after 16 years is such a terrible thing. It was probably time. Mazzone’s act had worn thin, and this team no longer spent the kind of $ on stud arms that would make a difference. A new voice was needed.
So, while I agree with Mac part of the time, I am in agreement with you Bravesfan1 on McDowell getting a bad rap. I have no doubt that pithcing would be equally as terrible this year with the crap Schuerholz put on this team, not to mention the fact that McDowell deserves big credit with Horacio Ramirez.
Mac also thinks the Atlanta Hawks have done well at the Draft the last few years and that Billy Knight, their moronic General Manager is getting undue criticism despite yrs. of Isiah Thomas level ineptitude.
So, it can be concluded that even my good friend Mac is capable of grand delusions.
And yes, the Orioles staff ERA is proof that the talent you have available generally outweighs the pitching coach leading the group.
In fact, as I have argued in here about a month, the concept of a Baseball team only having 1 hitting coach and 1 pitching coach is completely out dated.
In fact, I believe every team should have 2-3 pitching coaches and 2-3 hitting coaches…your Head pitching coach, like an associate Manager, and head hitting coach, like another associate manager, who has 2-3 underlings.
You also make sure you hire contrasting personalities and styles because the make up of your team…you’re 11-12 pitchers and 12-13 hitters are all very different people and some coaches will work better with some players then others.
If the Braves say had a Mazzone as the head Pitching coach with say McDowell and 1-2 other guys serving under him, you’d have different personalities that would suit different players…like say Horacio Ramirez working well with McDowell.
Heading out to Yankee Stadium & diving back into the belly of the beast. It’ll be another excercise in witnessing uniquely base human behavior, I’m sure. Guess I’ll leave my foam-rubber tomahawk back at the office…
I do not think that the Hawks have drafted well. They have actually drafted extraordinarily poorly for nearly two decades now. I said that I like the Shelden Williams pick.
Seriously, there seem to be a lot of Braves fans (like Mac, my friend) living in the past on Leo Mazzone.
he’s fine pitching coach…when he has a rotation of Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz & Millwood has his main group. I think I would have probably been the pitching coach on a 100 win team with talent like that year to year. Leo practically admits it.
Again, this does not take away that Leo has many strengths as a coach and a teacher…but no one knew who the hell Jim Hickey was before 2005 and his Houston Astros led the National League in ERA last year. And not to take away from Hickey, but he had a trio of aces in Clemens, Pettite and Oswalt.
Leo does NOT walk on water and neither does Roger McDowell. Two contrasting styles and let’s give Roger his due and his chance…oh, and it might help if Schuerholz gave Roger some TALENT to work with.
It was talent. He fricking had Smoltz, Glavine and Maddux in their prime. Now Kris Benson is his staff ace.
Oh, and I wanted to cast Jim Carrey or Greg Kinnear (maybe Mark Harmon) as McDowell. Not Carrot Top.
If Carrot Top should be playing anyone, stick some suspenders on him, surround him by a bunch of books at a Table in the Center concourse in Turner Field and call him, “John Schuerholz”.
The #1 man to blame for this effing debacle. Not even Cox deserves the lion share of the blame I slap on JS…he made this mess and it’s his duty to work harder and fix this and stop writing his damn books.
Personally, the book is a final straw for me and the man needs to step down, retire and let a younger GM take over. The book shows that JS is ready for retirement so he should leave then and he can write all the boring books he wants.
He takes glee in ripping Ted Turner and referring to him as som ‘hick yocal’ who just wanted to spend $ while JS in this book openly says how much he “loves” a conservative budget. He’s not even currently using his allotted $80 milllion designated by Time Warner!!!!!!
JS, you are the #1 cancer on this organization. As a lifelong die hard Braves fan, leave…he should be blamed above all players & coaches now in 2006.
Seriously, Hawks first round draft picks (page down). The last one to have a good career with the Hawks was Kevin Willis. Well, arguably Stacey Augmon, but even that was fifteen years ago. The last good Hawks team was made up almost entirely of free agents and players acquired in trades.
Alex, I blame Schuerholz for thinking Reitsma could close too. But the book had nothing to do with it or anything.
The AJC said Schuerholz went after Farnsworth, Todd Jones, Hoffman, Wagner and Wickman and got out-bidded on all of them. I don’t blame him for not signing a big free agent, but he had to have known Reitsma couldn’t cut it. He should have made a trade. I surmise Schuerholz thought the Braves could slide by on Reitsma until after the all-star break and make a trade then.
P.S.: I strongly believe Lerew will be traded for some reason. I think he is the odd man out when you consider Smoltz, Hudson, Hampton, Thomson (who may be traded too), Ramirez, Sosa, James et all. I don’t know why but I think Lerew is all but traded.
For those riding the recent “good pitching” of HoRam, check out John Thomson’s ERA through 43 1/3: 1.87. HoRam’s thrown 41 innings this year, it’s a small sample. I have no faith in him.
have faith, until he fails
I have some faith. Four out of five of Ramirez’s starts since coming off of the DL have been good (Cubs, Diamondbacks, Blue Jays and Yankees.)
Ramirez has pretty much, under McDowell’s advice, gotten rid of his cutter, the pitch which he gave pretty much all of those home runs last year on. If he pitches good for the rest of 2006, I say the Braves should keep him for 2007.
Mac, Billy Knight is a pretty good drafter/evaluator of talent though.. Unfortunately, that’s about all he has going for him.
Gasol, Diaw, Smith, Childress, Marvin… all solid picks. Passing on Chris Paul was only a mistake in hindsight. Childress is about as good as you’d hope from a #6, in that he’s in the same class as Luol Deng and Iguodala.
Gasol was actually picked for the Grizzlies, so I don’t know that Knight had any part of that evaluation. Also, Childress is not in the same class as Deng and Igoudala…
Stu, BK was the GM of the Grizzlies at the time. He fleeced Babcock for it (not a hard thing to do!)
Childress is comparable to Deng and Iguodala. If anything, he is only slightly worse, a lot of which can be laid upon the absolute lack of distributors on the Hawks for Childress’s entire tenure here.
Talking about the Hawks hurts.
Indeed it does hurt.
I can buy the Igoudala comparison (although Igoudala is more athletic and less skilled), but I still think Deng is much better.
As for the Gasol trade, yeah, that was an outstanding maneuver by King. Wright, Gasol, Knight for Abdur-Rahim. The sad thing is I was excited at the time it happened–I, like Pete Babcock, should not be allowed to run an NBA franchise.
I am not a Childress fan, and I don’t really think he’s as good as Deng or Iguodala, but look at the most-similar-season to Childress in 2006.
But the Sixers wouldn’t trade Iguodala for Childress if the Hawks threw in Smith, which is the player of the pair Deng is actually more similar to… I don’t know who will come out on top of that comparison going forward.
I think a lot hinges on whether the Hawks are able to pull off a Harrington sign-and-trade, and if they are, what they’re able to get in return. Please, please be a point guard.
Who would you want to play yourself in the upcoming major motion picture, Braves Pride?
Right now, we’ve got:
Alex R. — Matthew Broderick
Mac — Donal Logue
John Schuerholz — Carrot Top, in suspenders
Bobby Cox — Gene Hackman
Terry Pendleton — Delroy Lindo
Andruw Jones — Will Smith
Jenny — Alison Lohman
Stu — Steve Zahn
Smitty — Matthew Lillard
Rob Cope — Shane West
Another Alex R. — John Cusack
JC — Jeff Goldblum
A couple of nominations:
Me- How about David Thewlis?
Mary Remlinger- Geena Davis
Carmen Villareal- Carmen Electra
Jeff Francoeur- Jim Carrey
JC says that he was a slugging first baseman (in Little League, anyway). So maybe he should be someone brawnier.
And Geena Davis throws harder than Remlinger does now.
Edgar Renteria – Mekhi Phifer
Todd Pratt – Dennis Quaid
Brian McCann – Toby Maguire
Bobby Dews – Ian McKellen
I’d have to be played by (the reanimated corpse of) Jonathan Harris, who played the television character I was actually named after. (long story, odd mom, etc)
Giles — Warwick Davis?
Judy Reitsma — Shirley Temple
Paronto and Stockman — Abbot and Costello
John Smoltz – Hugh Jackman
McCay McBride – Jack Black
Adam LaRoche – Mister Ed
Freddie Gonzalez – Andy Garcia
Brian Jordan – Wesley Snipes
I heard on Fox Sports Radio, that the Hawks are one of the teams going after Iverson. Anyway, it would be hellanice to see the Braves get to w/in 10 games of the Mets before the break. W/ 3vs the O’s, 3vs the Cards and 4vs the Reds…hey its possible! 🙂
Paronto- John Goodman
Kevin Barry- Neil Patrick Harris
Phil Stockman- Macaulay Culkin
Marcus Giles- Zach’s right, Warwick Davis or Verne Troyer
I can sorta relate, DrZachary. My mother named me for a soap opera character who died before I was born.
Star Jones could play TP. She may have to get her stomach put back in, though.
TP – Cedric the Entertainer
HoRam – John Leguizamo
M. Giles 2b
E. Renteria ss
C. Jones 3b
A. Jones cf
B. McCann c
J. Francoeur rf
A. LaRoche 1b
S. Thorman lf
C. James p
McCann should be played by Sean Astin, clearly. Fat Sean Astin.
Pete Orr — oh, just any Canadian you can find.
Eventhough Sean Astin resembles Brian more physically…
I picked Maguire for McCann because he plays Spiderman and Brian is just as awesome 😀
Looking forward to seeing Chuck James work tonight. He looked really good last time around, but that was against the Devil Rays. O’s are a marginally better team, if he can prove himself again tonight, I’m on the road to being definately convinced.
Kyle Davies – Josh Hartnett
Remlinger – Billy Bob Thornton
Ryan Langerhans – Elijah Wood
B. Roberts 2b
M. Mora 3b
M. Tejada ss
R. Hernandez c
J. Conine lf
C. Patterson cf
K. Millar 1b
N. Markakis rf
D. Cabrera p
The Devil Rays are a good offensive team, are they not?
I saw on another board that Reitsma has been activated & Barry was sent down. Ugh.
Tampa Bay is next-to-last in the AL in run scoring, Dan, and only ahead of Kansas City because they’ve played two more games. Baltimore, by the way, is ninth.
I vote for Marcus being played by Joaquin Phoenix with cleats on his knees.
Me: By the way, could you present my treatment for Survivor: Bullpen? The setup is simple: we take the Braves’ various bullpen pitchers and put them on a remote tropical island.
Producer says: And?
Me: What do you mean, and?
hhahahahah @ Brian
I find it very strange that the announcers are claiming that Chuck James, with his maximum 89-mph fastball, couldn’t get signed today. James was drafted in 2002, which wasn’t that long ago.
Is anybody else having problems with TBS or is it just my TV? It might be blacked out but the game isn’t on CSN and usually they put up a message.
How many Braves hitters will swing on the first pitch against Cabrera? I’ll say seven.
A lead-off walk… wow
And the walk leads to a run..
Nice start tonight..
One. Man, was that an ugly at bat by Andruw.
John Thomson’s being retarded
Adam swinging some mighty lumber.
Two, but Chuck’s a pitcher, so we can excuse that.
Cabrera already has 46 pitches through two innings…It’d be nice to wear their bullpen out in the first game of the series.
Chucky is dealing tonight
Brian Jordan certainly looks a lot more decent than most of the landlords I’ve known. Glad to see he has a plan for his retirement. For all the heat he takes, and deserves, here, he’s had a good career and deserves some respect.
Three, but at least Andruw did stop swinging at sliders that bounce in front of the plate.
Are we the only 2 people watching this game?
Yeah, BJ and Remmy deserved to get ripped for their performances this season, but I agree with Brian J that their past performances should not be forgotten. It’s management’s fault for keeping them when they have nothing left in the tank, not the players.
On a side note, I haven’t even heard anybody mention Javy Lopez’s name on here in a long time. My how a couple of good catchers in Estrada and McCann will make the transition so much less painful.
I’m sure this has been said many times but WOW does Chucky get a ton of popups. Crazy.
Four and a splintered bat from Frenchy.
Is Lando speechless? I find that hard to believe. 😉
The N.L East is depressing
It’s a good thing Andruw is providing some good defense today because he is looking horrible at the plate.
Brian Jordan is doing good things…
Those “B-12” shots that Miggy took along with Palmeiro must’ve gotten to his head. He’s doing some crazy sh*t out there…
So there is a hole in Chucky’s armor.
And Chuck turns into a pumpkin. Dammit, Chuck, let the bullpen do this- they’e the trained professional idiots.
WTF, how did he just lose it instantly.
Wow, things are unraveling like Rick Ankiel’s career..
Reitsma is lurking in that bullpen (ughh)
Reitsma up and Barry sent down?????????????????????????????
WTF is wrong with Bobby.
So I was wrong- the Braves hitters demonstrated that they could learn not to swing at every first pitch that came along. Now, they’ve gotta get us a bunch of runs to offset the bullpen’s demolition.
Francoeur doesn’t have a clue. I swear to god.
I thought JS was in charge of roster moves. How is the Barry demotion his fault? The decision rests ultimately with JS.
But yeah, either way, I don’t get it.
Spazzy McGee is swinging the bal well today…
It hurts to watch Brian run though..
Yeah, Francoeur is a much better hitter than LaRoche, right, guys?
Wow. Brian McCann looks like he’s in a world of pain when he’s running. That was agony to watch.
1 good game does not a argument win.
We need to get atleast 1 run here…
Thorman demonstrates plate discipline. We’ll beat it out of him eventually. C’mon Diaz!
Good at bat by my adopted playa.
Yeah, and there isn’t any statistical metric ever created that can make an argument that Francour is a more productive hitter THIS YEAR than LaRoche. Not a one.
I guess you just have to be like Joe Morgan and know the game to get it.
Jeremy, I am henceforth ignoring all things you have to say about this so please don’t waste your time and mine. Let the bone go.
Being Joe Morgan just means that you’re a doodoohead.
That’s not what we needed in that situation Matthew..
Diaz demonstrates why I still don’t trust him. Like all too many of our hitters, he swings at everything.
Lando, no offense to you, I just don’t get it the argument. That’s all. My annoyance with Jeff has finally reached the boiling point.
Holy shit did Giles just get a clutch two out hit?
LaRoche almost beat McCann to the plate..
That ankle must really be bothering him
Sweet! Hope they hang onto it for Chuck to get the win. When they announced Shitsma was available last inning I really expected them to say “Reitsma is available to blow the game tonight….” That would have been hilarious.
It’s just amazing to me that Reitsma is still on the team. He has a 9.11 era. What other team would keep a pitcher with that era that has blown as many saves as Reitsma?
Our bullpen getting nine outs and not giving up 2 runs is a pretty big thing to ask though…
That’s like asking for good commentary out of Joe Morgan
It’s like asking Frenchy to draw walks.
It’s like asking Marcus to get on base to start an inning.
It’s like asking Pratt to contribute something other than carbon dioxide.
It’s Fat Tub of Goo II: Electric Boogaloo on the mound.
Joe Morgan did make a good point once in 1999. Or was it ’98.
Yes Chip..it’s dicey becuase that bullpen is absolute bullsh*t… say it like it is…
Chip and Don are an akward combination, I’ll say that..
I have sympathy for Chip and the rest. They’re paid by the company that owns the team and thus can’t tell it as they see it. Chip Caray’s seen enough baseball to tell good pitching from bad pitching, and he knows what he’s seeing.
Chip has eyebrows the size of Rhode Island.
I like Chip, he conveys his excitement very well.
I resent that.
steve stone was “let go” by the cubs for bashing management.
Chip is good at that, although not always the timing. His “Swung on and belted!” for Baldelli’s fly ball off of Sosa in Tampa Bay must have caused a few smashed TV screens.
Why not just leave Paronto in? Good lord.
That’s the problem with only using most of our relievers for one inning at a time (and for some, especially McBride, less). We increase the chance of landing on a pitcher having a bad day, which in this ‘pen is pretty high to begin with.
Bobby has become the master of ruining a good thing. Why would he leave him in.
Clearly, the scouting report is out that LaRoche doesn’t cover bunts well. Time to disprove it.
YAY HUCKLEBERRY and the word “hustle” were used in the same sentence. He must be taking his Ritalin.
Perfect chance to leave Ray in here as he blew through that pretty quick.
No chance of that, Mike. He’s batting third this inning..
Sosa will be getting the ball…
Hey guys I was out most of the night…would anyone be so kind as to give me a short summary of Chuck’s pitching performance? It would be much appreciated.
bernero got the loss for phily tonight
Chuck was motoring until he lost it in the 6th, giving up five straight hits including back-to-back homers. He’s still on track to be the winning pitcher, though, because the Braves scored two in the bottom half and the bullpen has hold the line.
Chuck was golden for the first five innings, though he was getting pretty big counts. Then he collapsed in the 6th inning, allowing back to back homers, then hit a guy and got in a jam before escaping. Not quite the Devil Rays performance, but if he can stick with these performances and perhaps cut down on the pitch count, I’d be quite content
Chuck pitched very well the first 5 innings…getting some fly-outs and a bunch of strike-outs..
But in the 6th inning he fell apart like Phil Mickelson on 18… He gave up back to back home runs and the Orioles had some hard hit balls that inning…
Didn’t notice that…..Yeah, Bernero got tagged for like 7 runs in 2 innings after getting called up for Philly. Ouch.
Thanks Brian – sounds like an acceptable outing for a guy’s 2nd career start.
Sosa coming on. *shivers*
Always good to bring the ty-ing run to the plate.. hmmff
Here we go again…..
Great start, guy. SIGH!
He pulls out the magic from last year!
Wow, Sosa and the bullpen did a great impersonation of major league pitchers. There’s a win we really needed. And Chuck’s got his second win.
Yeah a Save!! lets hope a streak can start
A save??.. A win??
3 shutout innings from the pen… that’s close to being blasphemy..
Way to go Chuck… 2-0!!
I just keep thinking, “OK, this is going to be the series where we finally turn it around…”
We did it against Baltimore two years ago. Why not now? We are just 9 games back of the Wild Card, and even 13 1/2 behind the Mets isn’t impossible. The Yankees trailed the Red Sox by 14 on July 19, 1978, after 90 games, and came back to win it all.
Washington loses, Phillies lose, Mets losing, Reds lose. Marlins win.
Whoops. Reds don’t lose- grand slam by Adam Dunn. 10 out of the Wild Card still.
I just read that Joaquin turns 32 in a couple days. Wow, he looks so young, I thought he was in his twenties.