Braves put Jordan on DL – PittsburghLIVE.com
Francoeur called up. I have to assume that he’s going to play more than Jordan has the last couple of weeks, but then I assumed that they weren’t going to keep McCann around to catch every fifth day. Francoeur has power, but I’m not optimistic in his ability to post an .300 OBP in the majors. In AA, it was .322, and that was with five intentional walks and five HBP.
Jordan has “chronic knee inflammation”. Half the time, that means “we’ll pay you, but don’t expect to play until roster expansion”. Given that Jordan’s value, so far as it goes, is as an unofficial coach, why not?
Wow, OK. My first impression is that this is a precursor to a trade — I can’t see throwing Francoeur into a pennant race quite yet. Maybe he’s just a placeholder until a trade can be completed. I agree with Mac — this seems like the type of “injury” designed to provide a graceful exit for a respected veteran.
If this was a voluntary move, then does it mean that they’re gonna try to work Francoeur in over the rest of the year or that there’s a trade in the works? Francoeur looks to me to be in need of a full does of AA and AAA. But maybe the Braves feel differently?
Check my comment in the previous thread. I think this may be because the outfielders currently at AAA have been so bad that the Braves didn’t want to risk using them. It’s similar to McCann’s callup; after Pena came up, the two catchers at AAA were terrible, so the Braves reached down and grabbed the top prospect from AA.
Regarding Francoeur, here is an explanation of the “Super Two” rule for arbitration eligibility (from mlb.com):
“a player can be classified as a “Super Two” and be eligible for arbitration with less than three years of service. A player with at least two but less than three years of Major League service shall be eligible for salary arbitration if he has accumulated at least 86 days of service during the immediately preceding season and he ranks in the top 17 percent in total service in the class of Players who have at least two but less than three years of Major League service, however accumulated, but with at least 86 days of service accumulated during the immediately preceding season.”
If Francoeur’s clock starts tomorrow, the end of the regular season (October 2) is 87 days hence. I’m assuming that service time refers to days on the roster, not team games played, and that postseason does not count. Does anybody know?
Yeah, I didn’t realize that McCarthy’s season had slipped so horribly. But if the pickings are so slim, then why a trumped up DL trip for Jordan right now?
Good point, sansho. They don’t seem to worry so much about service time, but being that close to the likely deadline… something’s up. Either that, or Jordan really is hurting (that don’t mean he’s coming back though).
Mac, do you see the braves doing anything big before the deadline?
I doubt it. They’ll probably pick up a reliever, maybe Mercker again, and maybe a spare outfielder if they decide to send Francoeur back down.
Wow, they have to play him. It does him no good to come sit on the bench. I bet something is in the works with Langerhans ir maybe Jordan is really hurt. If Francoeur can hit in AA, he can hit up here. Does anyone know anything about his D?
He was supposedly a centerfielder of some quality, meaning he should handle right well. However, sometimes those things get exaggerated. He has the tools.
If Francoeur can hit in AA, he can hit up here
With all due respect Smitty, .275/.322/.487 isn’t exactly lighting it up, and there are many examples of AA sluggers with much gaudier numbers (Pickering, Jack Cust, etc.) not making it at the major league level.
By the way, don’t you just hate pants?
Does anyone know if he will still be playing in the futures game with this callup? I’m excited he’s either going to be like Mccann and stay around or like Marte back in AAA for a final tuneup.Add Marte and this looks like the lineup of the future..
Mac, will he platoon with Langer or KJ? Both have played well against lefties(Langer’s hitting over .400).Tough Call there..
He has all the tools to hit, .275 isn’t that bad, it is better than whatever Jordan was hitting. Is he going to hit .340 up here, no. But if he can stay around .260 and pop a few out, he will be doing more than Jordan. Plus I think this is a no presure situation for him. He knows he probably isn’t going to be here all season, but he gets to come hang out in Atlanta with McCann and Lil John for a few weeks, it will be fun for him.
No one is questioning his tools – but .275 at AA doesn’t translate into anything close to .260 in mlb. Whether he can outhit Jordan is really moot. He should NOT play over anyone currently on the roster, which really begs the question why he was called up.
The ESPN wire report reads more like an obituary for Jordan than an injury report. It really smells like a trade is in the offing, with Francoeur filling the gap that they needed to claim to make the move because of the injury… not because he sucks.
But it is getting late on a night with no game, and I have very little better to do than make up these kinds of things in my head.
Well, since KJ has been in the lineup virtually every day, I don’t see that changing. I see two options: Something like the original platoon arrangement, with Francoeur starting all the time against lefties and a little against righties, or Francoeur starting most of the time and Langerhans forced into a fourth outfielder role. That isn’t really fair, but Francoeur is a far more important player to the Braves going forward than Langerhans.
Or maybe Creynolds is right, and the Braves are making a trade.
I saw Francoeur play several times in AA. He looked like a plus CF and had a nice solid line-drive swing. The comparisons to Dale Murphy are waaaay premature (and in my opinion misdirected: if he plays at the top of his game, he is a Kirby Puckett type with maybe a healthy Darren Erstad as a mid-range expectation; he doesn’t seem to have the power/walks combination of the Murph.) But he doesn’t seem to be far away from being a contributor. I don’t see him making a huge splash (although anything is possible in 100 at bats) but I kinda like a brief spell in the bigs. Show the kid “hey this is what you are playing for.” Two or three weeks of limited play won’t hurt his development a bit.
I’m assuming that service time refers to days on the roster, not team games played, and that postseason does not count. Does anybody know?
Basically correct. Not really on point here, but the time must be on the 25 man roster and not the 40 man expanded September roster. If he is still here on August 30th, he could conceivably get a one game demotion to fiddle with his service time; however, that doesn’t seem to be (channelling Bill Shanks) The Braves Way of Doing Things.
Should a trade be made?
With Thomson and Hudson coming back soon, there’s every reason to believe the bullpen will improve with Sosa and whichever other starter moves there. I feel pretty confident with KJ and Langerhans in the lineup, and with the Braves finally playing well I hate to see it broken up prematurely and possibly ruin the momentum.
Here are some trade rumors I found from various sources:
The Toronto Sun-“The Jays did ask the Atlanta Braves for catcher Brian McCann..”
St. Petersburg Times: “LaMar never talks about potential player movement, but various Web sites, publications and, yes, rumors have teams such as the Braves, Cubs and Dodgers keeping an eye on Huff, and the Marlins and Braves interested in Baez.”
Fort Lauderdale Sun-Sentinel: “Encarnacion is aware the Braves and Nationals have asked about him. He is unsure why the Marlins have resisted if they are willing to sit him three games in a row.”
Boston Globe (scroll down): “The Braves, who have turned to Chris Reitsma to close, would be willing to move Danny Kolb, who might benefit from a change of scenery. ”
Encarnacion is interesting but I don’t see the Marlins trading with the team right above them in the standings.
I’m still laughing at “Willing to move Danny Kolb.”
Tom, Colon pitched horribly as a reliever, and the Braves see him and Davies long-term as starters. It isn’t the Braves’ way, generally, to use young starters as relievers; if a guy’s in the pen, that’s normally where they stay. I think that (at least until September) they’ll either be in the rotation in Atlanta or in the rotation in Richmond. The Braves need another lefty anyway; if it’s not Ramirez they’ll go out of the organization.
I don’t understand the Huff rumors at this point. We don’t need a lefthanded hitter in the outfield or at 1B — Johnson, Langerhans, and LaRoche are all outperforming Huff at a fraction of the price.
As for Baez…eh. He’s had some success, but he has the same control issues as the guys we’re relying on now. I would hope for Kearns or Lew Ford if a deal is being considered. (I know, the Twins probably won’t trade Ford)
Why not go big and see if the Reds really are shopping Dunn? There’s got to be some money for an elite young position player. He’s got what, 2 years of arb left, and is unhappy and apparently not much loved in Cincy. I’d listen to just about any offer short of Marte, and I might even consider a straight swap. Dunn IS what Marte could be, albeit at a less premuium defensive spot.
The rain has finally stopped in Tuscaloosa. I don’t know if it will clear Atlanta by 1PM ET tomorrow, but surely by nightfall. Weather.com has “heavy rain” until then, and “few showers” until 4.
I would trade Marte for Dunn straight up.
And I expect .230/.280/.380 from Francoeur (although he will be enjoying a platoon advantage in most if not all of his PAs) and wouldn’t be surprised with worse.
Why are we worrying about an offense which ranks third in run scoring in the national league…without Chipper Jones!!! I really don’t believe we need to make any trade, unless we come up with one of the big time relievers from the Twins.
Francoeur strikes me as the type of guy that relishes the big time. The bigger the stage the bigger he plays. I’m not saying he will or is evenly likely to tear it up in the show but i wouldn’t be surprised if some of that enormous talent of his shown through here and there. And remember with that 275 average at AA he is still just 21. Thats young for there. Only freaks like Delmon young go in there and tear it up. And you never know, if maybe Franc had an ounce of plate discipline he’d be hitting 300 down there.
You guys are so some serious conspiracy nuts. Cox isn’t going to fake an injury to one of his players. If Jordans on the DL it’s because he sucked. If they wanted him gone cause he sucked he’d be gone, enough said.
Anyway, the way Johnson and Langerhans are coming around I just don’t see a bat as our need. If there’s a move to be made it will be in the bullpen.
correction, if Jordan’s on the DL, it’s because he’s hurt, not cause he sucked.
Mac,When is chipper comin back?
is he dead?
I think what JS and Cox is looking for is just a right fielder who wouldn’t hurt us defensively. Prefer to be a right-handed hitter who will fit perfectly into Jordan’s latest role. I think Francoeur fits those description perfectly. It’s a chance to let Francoeur see what major league baseball is about, and this will give him a chance to see what it takes to be sucessful at this level.
At the same time, it shows the Braves’ evaluation on McCarthy’s defensive ability.
I want to go back to a trade I “put together” on a previous thread.
Horacio Ramirez, Brayan Pena, Dan Kolbb & a prospect for Randy Winn & Eddie Guadardo.
I bring this up again because of the apparent outfield situation, as well as the obvious hole at closer and the fact that Dan Kolbb can simply not stay in Atlanta. CUT our losses.
I got ripped for the umpteenth time by mentioning Winn and I think you people mis-understand. I don’t see Winn coming in here in the vein of a Preston Wilson or Moises Alou. I see Winn as a giant upgrade from the feces of a career known as Brian Jordan.
Winn is a switch hitter, who plays good defense and hits about .280. Not bad if you need an extra bat off the bench who can hit with a little power and play defense. I think if Langerhans is not traded, a Winn would be a nicer compliment to platoon with Ryan then a black hole of sucktitude like Brian Jordan.
As for Guardardo, needing him is obvious…he’s a damn good veteran closer pitching for a non contender. What’s otherwise known as a “complete waste”. ESPN Rumors mentioned ‘Steady Eddie’ to the Yankees or Red Sox (furthering Frank Robinson’s conspiracy theory that everything ESPn mentions or does in the way of BASEBALL coverage is all about the Yankees or Red Sox), but the Yankees and Red Sox can’t just give away 25 year old lefty starters the way the Braves apparently can.
The obvious problem here is not the deal itself…great deal for the Braves. In fact, Mac and I also agree that Brayan Pena BELONGS in the A.L. because he can hit and no defense. The real problem is that we have no timetable on Hampton and the Braves are not going to deal their only lefty starter until Hampton comes back. Personally, I think that’s overrated. Just look at Boston. They won a World Series last year without a lefty starter & the Yankees made the Playoffs w/o a lefty starter.
In my mind, just worry about having 5 starters who can go out night after night and get the job done. (Gosh, after listening to a ton of MLB channel 175 on XM, I am starting to sound like maiancal Larry Bowa).
I’ve had really bad T-storms coming through here int he carolina’s. I hope the braves can get there games in today.
oh, now Grst. You say “conspiracy nut” as if it’s a bad thing 😉
I can’t get excited about Randy Winn. Yes, he would be a tremendous improvement over Jordan, but he’d probably just end up stealing time from Langerhans. I’m not completely sold on Langerhans (although he’s been damn good lately), but I don’t see any hurry to replace him. I think the only thing that would really get me excited is if they could get their hands on Austin Kearns. I still worry about him, so it would depend on the cost in prospects. But it would be a perfect low-risk situation with him and Langerhans splitting time. According to the Cincinnati Enquirer, Kearns has been passed over fully 10 times now… most recently yesterday. How can he not be available?
Eddie Guardado is good, but you gotta worry about his age. If we’re talking package deals, what about Kearns and Merker for a minor league package headed by Pena and James?
The Boston Globe is apparently again saying that the Red Sox are looking at Danny Kolb. Who knows where they got that idea, but maybe there’s something to it. This seems odd to me since I do still think Cox is inclined to give him another shot, and I’m not sure why the Red Sox would want him… but Kolb and clear rights to Adam Stern for Payton would be fine with me, provided that Payton doesn’t take too much time from Langerhans. Good defense, can hit lefties, and the salaries wash in that deal. Not as exciting as Kearns, but still an improvement.
Sorry for the double posting…stupid stupid website problems.
If the Red Sox are interested, is there an assumption here that it would be a “change of scenery” deal, Kolbb for Keith Foulke? I would do that in a minute.
Hell, as I have said before, I would trade Kolbb or Bernero even for a used jockstrap.
To creynolds:
Again, let me emphasize again…Randy Winn is not someone I see as a regular starter or as the “future”…see him in the vein (as mac reminded me yesterday) of Luis Polonia or Mike Devereuax. A solid, all around veteran who can be very useful…he can platoon with Langerhans.
And frankly, Langerhans is just not consistent enough to be a reliable regular. His future is as a 4th outfielder or a starter on a team the level of Kansas City or Tampa. If the Braves re-up Andruw in a few years, then surely Jones will be starting with KJ and Francour as the other regulars.
Blockbuster trade prediction:
Langerhans, Marte, Furcal, and Horam for Dunn, Kearns, Weathers, and Felipe Lopez
Very Interesting.
The first problem is that we don’t NEED two outfielders because you can’t really play Kearns if you have Dunn, Andruw & KJ.
Second, considering how good Felipe Lopez has been, why would the Reds rather have a more expensive Furcal?
how about this:
Furcal, LaRoche, HoRam, and prospects for Dunn, Kearns, Weathers, and Lopez.
Dunn plays 1st, Kearns platoons with Lang, Lopez at ss, and much needed help in bullpen with Weathers.
ajc has a report this morning that Hudson and Hampton will be ready directly after the all star break. I don’t know about you but I have my fingers crossed. The report combined with jordan going down tells me that the braves might be dealin real soon. I really think HoRam will be the first to go.
Alex – it’s not how you see Winn in that scenario that bothers me. I’d worry about how he’d actually be used. And you’re right that Langerhans is inconsistent, I just can’t help but think he’s better than Winn. Jay Payton has the same potential problem, though (being seen by Cox as an everyday option).
I just hope that if there is a trade for an outfielder, he’s either a clear improvement over Langerhans (as Kearns certainly could be) or a strict platoon/PH guy.
While I agree that Adam Dunn would be a very interesting pick up for the Braves because of the sheer middle of the order power he would provide (and protection for the Jones Bros.), I don’t see us in the current Time Warner ownership trading a young CHEAP guy like Marte or Langerhans to get an expensive guy like Dunn.
I love Dunn but that’s why I suggested the much smaller more financially viable Mariners option.
If this was Ted’s team still, we could easily talk up Dunn and the possibilities but that thinking doesn’t exist anymore in the current corporate structure. I hate being the doomsayer/realist here but that seems to be where we are at.
I also don’t see any LOGICAL scenario where the Reds give up a young .300 hitting with power and cheap Lopez to get an older, expensive and not nearly as good Furcal? It makes no sense and even the Reds aren’t that dumb.
If Hampton & Hudson are BOTH ready in the next week or two, then we HAVE to look at dealing Horacio. We HAVE to.
A 25 year old lefty starter could definitely be an enticing package to the Mariners, Twins, Rangers or many other teams. I think whatever package we put Horacio in, we have to make sure that other team TAKES Dan Kolbb off our hands. That has to be an absolute for JS here. And as I said…even if Hampton gets injured again, I am willing to see Horacio go and be “stuck” with 5 righty starters, all who are BETTER then Horacio, including the likes of a Colon or Sosa or Davies.
You guys are coming up with some very interesting trade predictions! However, the only guy I like to obtain is Felipe Lopez, which is only because I am still not sure about Betemit yet. Why do we need Winn & Guadardo? What’s wrong with Reitsma being our closer? The guy has a mid-90s fastball, good curve and a great change. I have no problem having him as our closer at all. Winn? Alex, I see you point with the comparison with Polonia and Deavereax, but Winn is a little bit too expensive at $4M. Unless the M’s take the salaries, I don’t see it happening.
Kearns and Dunn?! What’s wrong with Kelly Johnson and Jeff Francour? We have two great in-house prospects, why do we have to trade for external help? Besides, Dunn and Kearns will be getting more expensive in the coming years, how will they fit into the budget? I am excited about the future outfield of Johnson, Jones and Francour. My only question is where Marte will fit? We can’t trade away Chipper, and I am afraid LaRoche is actually more talented than we all think…I am in the camp of moving Chipper to first base, but I can see LaRoche’s progress for the past two years. So, I really don’t know. I can only conclude that we are loaded with talents. Can’t trade them away so easily. Every trade will have significant impact with the future budget.
As we all know, we are stuck with Chipper, Andruw, Smoltz, Hampton and Hudson for the next three years, our payroll isn’t so flexible that we can acquire players like Dunn whose salary will only approach toward the $10M level, which we can’t take with our budget structure for the next three years.
Alex, Colon looks very good the other night against the Cubs. He is probably the pitcher with the greatest talent among Colon, Sosa, and Davies.
Wait, did I mention I think HoRo is our worst pitcher among the EIGHT starting pitchers we have? Geez, what other team has this kind of pitching talent…with more still yet to come!!!
Good point on the dunn being too expensive in the near future. I guess if we put all the dream situations aside, then our best option is some package including HoRam and Kolbus for relief help and 4th outfielder. Maybe we could even get a signed Kent Hrbeck jock strap from Minnesota in a trade with them considering we would be giving them Kolb. I think this puts our team on solid ground for the homestretch and keeps us from mortgaging the future.
As I posted on a less active thread:
–
Now, as i attempted to post multiple times yesterday, we don’t need to make any major moves.
We have an outfield that is playing great with Langerhans, Johnson, and Jones. Heck, Jordan wasn’t doing that badly once he was stuck in the 4th OF role.
Furcal is playing better and LaRoche is close to 800 OPS. I think when we get chipper back we will be in great shape. We probably have the strongest top to bottom group of position players in recent memory.
I also think we will be fine in the pen once we get Hampton, Thompson, and Hudson back. I think Davies or Colon can pitch effectively like Marquis did from the pen after the midseason call up during his rookie year.
I would like to Sosa get a chance to close once he gets pushed out of the rotation. His stuff is electric.
The roster move I would really like to see is areturen to 12 pitchers.
1B-LaRoche/Franco
2B-Giles
SS-Furcal
3B-Jones
C-Estrada/McCann
INF-Betemit, Orr
LF-Johnson
CF-Jones
RF-Langerhans
OF-Francouer (or anybody from richmond until Jordan gets off DL)
SP1-Smoltz
SP2-Hudson
SP3-Hampton
SP4-Davies
SP5-Thompson
Pen
Closer-Sosa
Reitsma
Foster
Grybo
2 of Ramirez, Colon, Boyer if we can’t do something with:
Kolb