ESPN.com – MLB – Recap – Mets at Braves
A tale of two pitchers… Tim Hudson was in constant trouble for the first three innings of the game, allowing two runners in each frame. But timely strikeouts and double plays got him out of trouble. He allowed a weak two-out single in the fourth and over the next four innings allowed just an infield single in the sixth. His final line: eight innings, no runs, six hits, two walks, three strikeouts. So much for the dreaded three days’ rest start.
Tom Glavine, on the other hand, dominated for the first four innings, allowing just one hit to Johnny Estrada. But when he got into trouble he couldn’t work around it this time. He gave up three hits and a run in the fifth, and needed to make a nice play on a bunt to save a second run. He was chased in the seventh after giving up his third run of the inning on a Furcal triple.
Good nights for Johnny Estrada and Ryan Langerhans. Estrada was 3-4 with an RBI and a run scored and was in the middle of both rallies. Langerhans was 1-2 with a walk, drove home the game’s first run, and scored its last. Mondesi appears to be hitting like an actual ballplayer for the first time all year and was 2-4, scoring twice.
Reitsma pitched the ninth. It wasn’t a save situation of course, but he was very impressive, striking out Floyd and Piazza. The latter struck out three times and appears to be done. I think Reitsma will probably get the first crack at the next save opportunity. Boy, that’s fun, isn’t it?
Night game tomorrow, even though it’s the last of the series and the Mets have a game Thursday. We’re really terribly sorry, honestly. SportSouth game, Davies versus Victor “The Wrong” Zambrano; Rick Peterson, Super Genius, sure fixed him in a hurry, huh? The Marlins trailed early but then realized that they were playing the Phillies so of course won in extra innings. The Natspos are also in extras against the Reds.
Didn’t hear if Glavine was greeted by the customary boos tonight. I sense I’m in the minority, but I’m not bitter at his departure — the extra year that the Mets offered is no small consideration. Many people seemed to expect loyalty from him, but don’t hold the team management to the same standard — witness the lack of heated response to their letting Maddux go.
Regardless, Glavine’s decision may have cost him a shot at 300 wins, but he’ll still go into the HOF with a Braves cap on. That said, I hope we face him again this season — we’ve got his number.
Good thing the Braves won or I’d be horribly depressed, as the O’s just lost both Javy and Brian Roberts to injury. Nice to see Estrada pulling out of his funk and producing. I’m sorry I missed the game, it’s always fun watching the Braves whale the tar out of Glavine. I was sorry to see him go 3 years ago, but now I’m not.
1. Glavine’s decision to go for the money DID cost him his shot at 300 wins.
2. He’ll make HOF, but he may have to wait a bit.
3. I’d like to face him once a week. We are so in his head.
About the Orioles: I HATE them and their evil owner, Peter Angelos. I live in Washington and he’s satan…this site is not to be used as a forum for anything to ever nice be said about that evil rat and his evil team. But I like Javy.
About Glavine: I am in the minority with Sansho1; I love the I regularly recount a story to people from 1995 when Glavine spent 30 minutes chatting with my dad & I in a Philadelphia Hotel Lobby. He was such a class act, so kind in answering our questions and being a regular guy. I am A DIE HARD Braves fan and there’s not a person in sports I love more then Tommy.
That said, I am a Braves fan first & foremost so I am always rooting for the Braves to beat him when he pitches. I have him on my Fantasy team so I double want him to win all other times.
As far as how Tommy left Atlanta, that’s on the Braves mostly because he wanted a longer contract from the team that had been his only organization, which is pretty understandable. It’s also equally understandable at Tommy’s age and considering his Playoff performance that previous year as to why the Braves didn’t want to give him that money. I don’t think there’s a guilty party there or a bad person…Glavine did the right thing for him and Schuerholz did the right thing for the Braves.
As for being in Tommy’s head, clearly there is something to that but his veolicity had been going downhill and I think his age and the crispness of his pitches is the real culprit because his numbers across the board are hurting.
Mondesi playing like a real player? He mis-hit two balls that turned into infield singles. The two worst OPS of any outfielders in the NL with enough AB’s? Your Atlanta Braves LF and your Atlanta Braves RF. Overall, Raffi passed Jordan last night, and I would bet Mondesi tonight.
I’d have to agree. What happened when Glavine left was just one of those things. The Braves made a smart business decision, and Glavine did what he thought was best for himself. I didn’t like the PR game that JS tried to play (lifetime contract, my eye), but I guess he was just trying to cover his butt.
I don’t think it cost him 300 wins. Maybe it did, maybe it didn’t. We’ll never know for sure. But I don’t think Atlanta was ever really serious about bringing him back anyway. And, if he had come back, I’m reasonably confident that it wouldn’t have lasted this long.
Don’t forget that Glavine was the NL player representative at the time he was a free agent. The players’ union is always clamoring for longer, bigger contracts and I’m sure a large part of the decision made by Glavine to take the longer, bigger contract had to do with being a union role model.
I’m sure that part of him questioned whether he really wanted to leave Atlanta, and whether it would affect him getting to 300. I don’t blame Braves management for hesitating to throw mega-bucks at their aging horses. I can hardly blame Glavine for leaving either, but I have been very thrilled to see the Braves knock him silly since he left!
It would take an awful lot more than the comments he and his agent made during contract negotiations for me to overlook Game 6 of the ’95 Series. I’ll applaud Glavine every time he comes back and root for him to do well elsewhere. Of course it was a good business decision for the Braves to let him walk without a meaningful counter-offer, but that doesn’t take away from the huge role he played in creating this dominating franchise. I’ll be cheering him on when he undoubtedly goes into Cooperstown.
As far as 300 wins: I kinda doubt staying in Atlanta cost him that figure. Sure he’s been hurt by NYM’s weak defense the last few years, but not hurt to the tune of 10 wins a year. His age and declining stuff is what is primarily holding him back, not the Mets mess.
In Glavine’s defense though, he was a bit unlucky last year. A 119 ERA+ (3.60 ERA) should net you more than 11 wins. I don’t know if it was run support or bullpen issues, but he definitely pitched better than his record last year.
Glavine’s time with the Braves was up and it was a win-win for both sides. Glavine got some $$ and the Braves brought in some younger players. Braves fan who boo Glavine are the same Braves fans that go to games and talk about the UGA Bulldogs the whole time. These are teh Braves fans that go to playoff games (if that) don’t cheer at all. The same Braves fans that say “We are just tired of winning that is all!” The same ones who don’t know who Dale Murphy is.
The Braves should have retired the #47 the first home game of 1996. Glavine was the Mr. Brave in the 90’s.
No doubt not pitching in Atlanta these past couple of years has cost him a few wins. But, really, it seems highly unlikely that it’s more than a handful. He stunk it up pretty good in ’03. He probably was hurt by pitching for a lousy team last year, but I have a hard time seeing that costing him more than a few wins. So maybe, if we’re generous and say it’s 2 wins in ’03 and 5 in ’04, he’d still be 28 wins away from 300. That’s still a lot for a guy his age. Don Sutton has put it more delicately than I will, but the truth is that no matter what had happened then, Glavine was always going to have to be willing to pitch a couple of years well beyond his prime for lousy teams to get to 300 wins.
Glavine leaving the Braves for $$$ cost him a shot at 300 wins. The Mets mess IS making him look like Steve Carlton. Yes, he won us a ring in 1995 but look at his playoff pitching since then.
I love Glavine but the way he is viewed in the context of baseball/Braves history took a big hit when he went for the $$$.
Oh, and Furcal is still one point behind our corner OFs in OPS.
Take some time and think about that…
Glavine was always going to have to be willing to pitch a couple of years well beyond his prime for lousy teams to get to 300 wins.
Probably so. He’ll need a Moyer-like resurgence even to get close enough to have that choice now. It’s still possible, but highly unlikely. It’s obvious from his fielding last night that he keeps himself in great shape, but that doesn’t compensate for an aged arm.
Yes, he won us a ring in 1995 but look at his playoff pitching since then.
Starting in 1996, his post-season ERA is 3.76. Yes, he was horrible in ’02 and in ’00, but he was brilliant in ’01 and ’96 and pretty darned good the other years.
The Mets mess IS making him look like Steve Carlton.
I don’t get the comparison. Carlton bounced around after Philly, playing with the Giants, Twins, Indians, and White Sox in one full season and parts of two others. His post Phillies ERA was over 5.50. And he certainly wasn’t hanging around for a big payday – his last season, he was paid $115,000.
Glavine has been with one team, has been, for the whole a bit better than average, and has been very well compensated.
Mondesi really wore out the infield grass with his seeing-eye 20-hoppers last night. What a stud.
I confess to not recollecting all the details of Glavine’s contract, but wasn’t one of the things about the Mets deal the fact that he got an extra year on that contract? Sure, in retrospect going there may have hurt his chances to get to 300 wins w/r/t run support, but if he was looking to get to that # it would seem like having a guaranteed extra year to pitch would be a pretty big consideration. Hard to fault the man for chasing that dream, and impossible to turn on him after all the amazing years he had in Atlanta…
I turn on Mets, not on Braves.
Any thoughts on the 1 out Langerhans on first Estrada on Third and Hudson hitting squeeze play? I was sitting on the third base side and at no point during the at bat did I believe that Estrada was going to score.
When we got into the same exact situation later in the game they Hudson hit. It turned out to be a somewhat botched double play ball that allowed Estrada to score. It would have been close if fielded cleanly but could have been a double play.
So I guess my question is what do you think is more probable. Hudson hitting into a double play or Estrada scoring on a squeeze with Glavine fielding? I would rather take my chances with worrying about a possible double play. Best case scenario he gets a hit, run scores, and Ryan advances. Worst case: double play.
Mondesi appears to be hitting like an actual ballplayer for the first time all year and was 2-4, scoring twice.
d. As other readers have pointed out he hit two balls weakly and got lucky. Particularly the first which was a hit because it just dribbled down the third baseline, and Modesi got on base by the fact that it didn?t dribble foul.
Didn’t hear if Glavine was greeted by the customary boos tonight.
d. Sadly he was. Gloating, fat, beer guzzling fans booed him each opportunity. Some even cheered after his fielding play when it looked like he might be hurt. Unbecoming to say the least.
Any thoughts on the 1 out Langerhans on first Estrada on Third and Hudson hitting squeeze play? I was sitting on the third base side and at no point during the at bat did I believe that Estrada was going to score.
d. I was on the first base side, and it looked to me like he would have scored had the ball stayed fair.
There’s no such thing as a real Braves fan that doesn’t know who Dale Murphy is.
Speaking of these two guys… I’ll never forget the time that Glavine just had to plunk someone, and Murphy was the next guy up to the plate. It was really funny to watch him try so hard to throw it hard enough so that old Dale couldn’t get out of the way, but not so hard as to injure him in any way. I think even Murphy was laughing by the end of it (he never did actually hit him, if I recall correctly). But I know it was a gut-wrenching situation, and I don’t wish for more beanball wars under any circumstances.
I thought Glavine threw behind him that game.
Maybe so. I do remember that he (understandably) wasn’t real into the idea of plunking him. And that the umpire was apparently enjoying the spectacle so much that he didn’t eject Glavine until after he’d thown at/near him four times.
Great call on Super Genius Peterson Mac.
From all the huzzah about him when he was with the A’s, I thought he would have been healing lepers by this point in his career.
Glavine will go down in history as one of the greatest Braves ever. The contract the Braves offered him not only was shorter and for less money but a lot of the money was deferred. The lifetime Brave comment by Schuerholz might have been a reference to him working for the team in some capacity while he was being paid the deferral. The Braves did the smart thing. They made a decent attempt to retain the face of the franchise for public relations knowing that some knothead team would come along and pay him for past performance. I don’t blame Glavine,
the money and years were exactly what he wanted. I don’t blame the Braves they did exactly what they had to do. As we know wins are the least important statistic determining the effectiveness of a pitcher. Last year Tom was good but the team around him was awful and he has never been the dominatinig kind of pitcher that can overcome that especially at this point in his career.
If a guy doesn’t know who Dale Murphy is then he can still be a Braves fan but he/she is probably one of the bandwagon jumpers who came on board in the early 90’s when the team was a novelty and not a dynasty.
There’s no such thing as a real Braves fan that doesn’t know who Dale Murphy is.
Where is the line? Phil Niekro? Eddie Mathews? Johnny Sain? Joe Adcock? How about Vic Willis or Tommy Bond? This year’s college graduates were 6 years old when Murph last suited up for the Braves (wow that makes me ooooold!) To a lot of young fans, he is no less ancient history than Warren Spahn.
Warren who?
Thank you Bamadan, I am a recent college graduate(Go Gators) I am familiar only with the Murph because he’s my dad’s favorite player. The Braves were and still are the only thing we watch on TV, and during the 80’s when I was 6 and 7, that was the only thing we watched. That and Andy Griffith. I remember the day the Braves traded Dale to the Phillies(I was 8 and I will never forget my dads face), but that doesn’t make my friends my age who are Braves fans because of Glavine, Smoltz when we were in elementary school less Braves fans.
Did anyone see that pic of 7 year old Kyle Davies next to Smoltz and Tommy Gregg in ’91? I don’t think I have seen anything else that put “the streak” (and make me feel old as crap) in as clear perspective.