Whether it’s Baseball America, Keith Law, Kiley McDaniel, Fangraphs, MLB, the 2023 Braves farm system is rated at the very bottom of the barrel…and it likely deserves it.
I had a friend whose father worked at the Budweiser brewery as an engineer for 25 years. One day, he asked his father how the brewers crafted the beer Natural Light. His dad replied:
“They start with Budweiser, using high quality ingredients, then move on to Michelob with what’s left of the grain, then move to Bud Light with what’s left after Michelob, then move to other beers. When all decent beers have been brewed, Natty Light is the closer and it’s mostly sawdust.”
Former Budweiser Engineer
So…. yes, 5 years ago the Braves farm was Budweiser (as a serious beer snob, this comp really bothers me, but I’m sticking with it… St. Bernadus ABT is truly the king of beers, though), and at this point, the Braves farm has become the worst beer on the planet, Natty Light… according to the gurus. And while I’m not saying they’re wrong, think about this for a moment… Was there any other team in MLB that were more positively impacted by their prospects than the 2022 Atlanta Braves?
- Michael Harris, 4.8 fWAR
- Spencer Strider, 4.2 fWAR
- Vaughn Grissom, 0.7 fWAR
- Bryce Elder, 0.7 fWAR
- Tucker Davidson, 0.1 fWAR
10.5 fWAR from the farm sounds like quite an achievement, especially one that was considered to be in the bottom 6-7 on most lists. You’d be hard-pressed to find better results.
I’ve thought long and hard about this…the problem in terms of rankings. While it’s mostly the unknown, it’s also that the list isn’t fluid. It’s created in the offseason and doesn’t really change, at least to the public, for over 1/2 a year. It’s an outdated system, especially with
- All of the newly developed offseason workouts chock full of immediate data to help a player.
- The ability for a pitcherto develop a pitch in one offseason or a hitter to correct a swing flaw using immediate high tech feedback.
If scouts and pretend scouts want to truly rank farm systems, I think there are some things that need to change:
- An offseason list after all Fall and Winter Leagues are complete. Some dudes become DUDES in the AFL.
- Less focus on depth of a system, and more focus on valuing players of real impact. When discussing top-tier talent, those guys are the players that could become perennial All-Stars. However, the next level isn’t like a B in school compared to an A. It’s more like a C-. That first tier is elite talent, big game changers, but the next level just doesn’t equate to the grades given in these prospect lists. Braves had serious top-tier talent in Spencer Strider and Michael Harris II, but they were outweighed by “deep systems” chock full of players that will be hard-pressed to produce 4 WAR over a career, much less 3/4 of 1 season.
- Stop trying to put a value on a player that no one has seen (here’s looking at you Kevin Maitan). IMO, each player on a list needs real eyes on them in games at game speed, not a scouting report that’s passed to another scout passed from another scout that said he had light tower power. In our system, Ambioris Tavarez was a big IFA signing a few years back and he’s now played in 29 games and still no one really knows anything about him other than he was a big IFA signing. To my point, NO ONE should be putting a value on Tavarez because it’s just a dude passing info to another dude that saw him hit once and thought he looked ok. The sample is just too small.
- Pride: Pride killed Keith Law’s Braves top prospects list for years because he was blindly stubborn to the adjustments that Austin Riley was making in the minors. This happens way too often in the sport and it goes both ways. These dudes that write their lists don’t want to admit fault cause they feel like they’d lose face, but admitting fault is admirable, especially when it comes with no “but†or “howeverâ€. I’ve always felt it’s best to admit wrong and change my thought process rather than staying the course of ignorance. There’s no reason Spencer Strider’s fast rise to stardom should’ve come as such a surprise to most people that follow MLB considering his 2021 numbers that saw him start at Low-A, move to A+, then to AA, then to AAA, then to the bigs. I mean, the dude ONLY struck out 13.6/9 in the minors while walking 3.4. Someone, somewhere, in some midseason or end of season list should’ve seen that promise, said “that dude’s going to be a stud”, and had the cojones to throw him in the top 10 in their top prospects list.
Don’t Tread on Me…Pretty Please
Maybe snowshine can counter my argument, tell me how stupid I am, and to just let it go, but doggone it, this crap and these lists that truly mean nothing, really irk me when they’re soooooooo wrong.
With the high end talents of Strider and Harris, and still plenty in the pipeline before THIS offseason’s tradeapalooza, the 2022 Braves farm was probably deserving of a top-10 ranking (at least midseason), and I’ll gladly die on this hill and be buried on said hill with my 61 Braves fitted hats.
But the 2023 list…yeah, we definitely deserve it, until the surprises start showing up again.
And they will.

You write good, boy.
Good piece, even though I disagree!
For what it’s worth, Keith Law has acknowledged that he was wrong about Riley. I defend him here because I like him as an analyst and really appreciate that he shows his work, though I know that others can be rankled by his tone.
Anyway, I completely agree that it’s possible for a farm system to do poorly on a list ranking yet do extremely well in practice. But these systems are the exceptions that prove the rule: as a rule, prospects bust more often than they succeed. The fact that Riley made the adjustments that he made is extraordinary because it’s so unusual for a player to fix a major flaw in his game on the way to becoming a superstar; ninety-nine other guys out of a hundred just can’t.
So while I think all of your critiques are well taken, I don’t think that means the lists are directionally wrong, I just think that they’re subject to all of the massive uncertainty that surrounds prospects in general.
And that’s why depth is so highly prized. After all, just think about all of the pitching depth that we had a few years ago: Sean Newcomb, Tyrell Jenkins, Luiz Gohara, Mike Foltynewicz, Lucas Sims, Matt Wisler, Jason Hursh, Aaron Blair, Touki Toussaint, Bryse Wilson, Kolby Allard, Huascar Ynoa…
The fact that most of those guys were higher-ranked than Spencer Strider doesn’t just mean that all of the fancy prospect writers were wrong (though, of course, they were).
It also just simply means TINSTAAPP.
I mean, I think an analyst that expected Strider and Harris to do what they did last year either has access to some real deep info or is psychic or something. We should expect these kinds of rankings to be predicting the future, and you don’t predict extreme results without extreme evidence, and I don’t really think we had extreme evidence for either of those players last year.
I do think we can get hung up on prospect rankings just because those players ought to serve the purpose of eventually, you know, helping the big league team, and the reason our current system is so bad is precisely because we have leveraged our prospects very very effectively over the last five years, via trades and promotion, to help the Braves an enormous amount.
There are two other contributing factors: one, we’ve won a lot lately, so our draft position has been lower; and two, we were locked out of the Latin American market for most of the past few years, which took away another major talent stream. Nevertheless, in AA I trust.
And in AAR also. And Nathan. Well reasoned words are spoken here. Thank you all.
Fans assign a level of precision to prospect rankings that just isn’t the case in practice, except in hindsight. Like hitting, prospect evaluation is a field where most people fail most of the time, even the superstars.
The top-whatever prospect rankings every year are a handful of generational guys and an ocean of guys who might be something if things work out. If anyone can consistently pick the studs out of that ocean, they should found a religion, because they’re a prophet.
There’s just not a lot of air between the guy rated #25 and the guy rated #95, most years. It’s just a number.
@2, did Law ever admit he was wrong about Evan “not a prospect” Gattis? I assume 8 bWAR for a career is more value than “not a prospect” suggests.
For those of you that remember, I really did try my best to have an old school Alex R temper tantrum.
How’d I do?
I completely agree with your points, especially the one about depth.
I also think that mental make-up is huge and something that is next to impossible to determine by talent evaluators. Both Harris and Strider (and in recent history Soroka, Albies, Riley…list goes on) have great temperaments to advance levels and find success. I think the Cardinals are another club that seems to keep finding starters in a “mediocre” system who can make the jump and produce.
I personally have a problem with prospect ranking in general because it discounts young talent on the team. Why aren’t “young controllable talent” lists more important than prospect lists? A 25 and under talent list for the Braves would include Riley, Albies, Strider, Harris, Grissom, Acuna, Soroka, Anderson. Isn’t that the true metric for determining the future of a ball club?
Is it April yet?
Actually I agree on every one of your points but will continue to do my own thing as I both love the minor leagues and enjoy thinking about prospects.
I did actually do a Strider in-season update in the discussion section of one of the 2021 game threads where I broke down a start made in AA and concluded that this guy was a future star. Somebody with better google-fu than I can probably find it.
Natty Light, the chop suey of domestic beers.
#10
Indeed. This is the annual dead zone for sports. Lotsa hockey & hoops for the next 40 days.
@11, here’s that breakdown you posted: https://bravesjournal.mystagingwebsite.com/2021/07/22/cristian-pache-homers-twice-in-gwinnett-doubleheader-joey-estes-strikes-out-10-for-augusta/#comment-2380814
Soroka already down – hamstring tightness.
At some point, just walk away, guy.
@14 Good news for Ian Anderson
At this point, Soroka’s in Strasburg territory for me: I don’t know that his body will ever permit him to throw another inning in the major leagues. I will continue to root for him for as long as he wants to wear his spikes, and anything he’s able to accomplish from here on out is gravy.
#15
Could be, but Ian’s really gotta return to the rotation on his own merits.
When it comes to spring training, I usually just hope nobody gets hurt & I try to fast-forward to opening day. But this year, I’ll be genuinely curious to see how Ian alters his repertoire or approach.
@14
Eh, a tight hamstring isn’t a reason to panic yet.
If Anderson wins the job I wonder if they will consider an opener for him.
I’ll confess to having not paid that close attention, but is there any real evidence that Anderson has improved in any way since he got sent down? Or is it all just “he was good once; hopefully he can get back there” good feelings? Has he added a new pitch or refined his control or anything substantive?
He only got 4 starts at AAA after the demotion and looked like the same guy. It appeared to me that he was trying to lengthen his stride in the one game I saw and I think that is one adjustment he needs to make (it puts his release point slightly closer to the plate and a bit lower which accentuates his strangely spinless fastball up in the zone). He gave up 7 that game so he might need a tad more work on the project. Rediscovering the curveball that got him drafted so high might be a good idea too.
There was a Blue Jays pitcher who sputtered in the bigs after a killer rookie season. Went down to A-ball. Came back up as a new guy. Won a couple Cy Youngs Now he’s in the hall.
Not saying Ian will do the same (he’s still gotta compete with Young Elder), but I don’t think he’s done quite yet. Especially since he’ll be just 25 in May.
The reason I suggested an opener for Ian was because he was perfectly cromulent 2 trips through the order even with just 2 pitches. The 3rd time was when he collapsed.
@23- not against the Phillies. I witnessed that massacre from the club seats.
Andrus to the White Sox.
Hopefully we won’t regret using internal options for SS. I imagine Andrus would not have been as interested as a “plan C” option compared to–presumably–being Chicago’s regular 2B. Plus it isn’t clear he would outperform other options for Atlanta if needed.
Am I the only one concerned about starting pitching? I always assume two starters will underperform or get hurt, and I would like to have more AAAA options lurking. I suppose someone can always emerge if needed, or there won’t be injuries, or the existing 5th/6th/7th starters will break out.
Seems like a relatively complete/good roster–excited for the season!
I know it’s Braves State Media and I’m trying to take with as much of a grain of salt as I can, but I liked this piece and I remain enormously impressed with Grissom’s attitude and makeup.
But I’m also just thinking more about the ZiPS projection. At the time, I was struck by ZiPS projecting Grissom for a two-win season. But then I looked further down the page, and saw his “Top Near-Age Offensive Comps”: Tony Fernandez, Edgar Renteria, Alan Trammell. That is pretty heady territory. I asked Dan Szymborski about it in his latest chat:
Pretty exciting. Plus, he’s an Orlando kid. I wonder if he’s got a lot of family and friends who’ll come watch the team in Spring Training this year?
@27 – Going back to Keith Law and Riley, at some point you’ve got to say if a dude hits a dude can hit.
@27, 28: and ZiPS and Szym are alllll about ‘if a dude hits, that means he can hit.’
Rusty, check your email and give me a shout when you get a chance.
@30 Just sent an email; it looks like everything has been going to spam. I’ll fix that.
New thread.
https://bravesjournal.mystagingwebsite.com/2023/02/20/will-aa-add-starting-pitching-depth/