Atlanta Braves vs. Arizona Diamondbacks – Box Score – May 18, 2011 – ESPN.
1. No matter how well the back of your bullpen is pitching, if you keep playing close games, you are eventually going to lose some.
2. If you keep playing for one run, that’s all you’re going to get, which means that all of your wins will be close games.
3. Eventually, your bullpen will break down from overuse.
The Braves led 4-3 going to the bottom of the eleventh after Diory Hernandez drove in Dan Uggla with the go-ahead run, which I realize is a ridiculous phrase but actually happened. Craig Kimbrel was in to pitch; he had yesterday off but that was after three days in a row. He got the first out but then allowed a single, followed by an infield single to — where else — second. Kelly Johnson singled in the tying run, with the runner from first going to third. Fredi, rather than play for the double play, brought the infield in because that’s the most managerey thing he could do. Uggla fielded the ball and threw home too late (it was called a hit, who knows) and the game was over.
Julio Teheran had started and only gotten through four innings, again. He allowed a titanic first-inning homer to Justin Upton, then three singles in the fourth (the key one to the pitcher with two out) to make it 2-0, and didn’t have any easy innings, and only struck out one against two walks and six hits. Let’s just say he needs a bit more seasoning.
The Braves cut it to 2-1 in the sixth, when Jason Heyward singled, Chipper Jones doubled, and Brian McCann hit a sac fly, but Chipper got himself thrown out at third trying to advance on a long fly to left. Uggla reached on a walk and Freddie Freeman singled, only to have Uggla thrown out at third by the left fielder, the second man that inning. How often do you see an outfielder get two assists in an inning?
The Braves took the lead in the seventh, when Brooks Conrad doubled in Nate McLouth, going to third on the throw home, and scored on a Martin Prado sac fly. This led Fredi Gonzalez, in what can only be described as a cry for help, to bring in Scott Proctor to pitch. He normally uses Eric O’Flaherty in the seventh (see flowchart), or he could have used Cory Gearrin, who however was sent down for Teheran because they just have to have two bad 34-year-old righthanded relievers named Scott. Proctor intended to tie the game up with a homer, but only allowed a walk, followed by a sacrifice (“An indispensible guide for all managers who want to bring back the teens!” — Kirk Gibson, on Fred Clarke’s Managing the Deadball Way) and then, following on the night’s theme of things you don’t see every day, a two-base wild pitch.
The Braves did nothing from the eighth to the tenth, going down in order every time, while O’Flaherty — who wound up pitching anyway — and Jonny Venters did their thing. Then it was Kimbrel, and sigh. At least if Venters or O’Flaherty was made the closer it might limit their workload a little.

Can we get Terry Pendleton or Roger McDowell or even *gasp* Snitker to manage?
Mac’s defense has been “suspect” all year. I’ve seen a lot more “Wild Pitches” this year then the past. It’s picking nits a bit, but it’s frustrating. I don’t get why we are so reticent to bring Ross in as a defensive replacement (or as a pinch hitter). Sure he *could* get hurt but it’s one freaking inning.
Also; I wish we had a hitting coach. With TP at least you saw him talking to players and there seemed to be somewhat of an approach. The sense I’m getting is that we “trust our hitters” and as a result we’re making silly outs and not forcing opposing pitchers to beat us.
Other people are taking notice.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Sacrificial-lamb-Nate-McLouth-brings-back-the-t?urn=mlb-wp6878&bcmt=11147210#mwpphu-comment-11147210
Well, that other person is AAR.
I love that O’Flaherty was given the night off but, because Proctor sucks, he had to pitch anyway. It sure would have been nice just to use him in the 7th, when we gave up the tying run! I also love that Proctor was Fredi’s choice to pitch the 7th as opposed to Lisp, who is, after all, The Long Reliever (TM).
On Kimbrel: he has a .386 BABIP. His peripherals are amazing–a 1.11 FIP, a 1.87 xFIP, a 3.4 K/BB–and I actually don’t have a problem with him right now, blown saves and all. He’s just getting unlucky on ground balls. The bigger problem, as Mac says, has been that there are too many close games and thus too many opportunities for an unlucky pitcher’s bad luck to hurt the Braves’ chances. If they want to mix and match the end-of-game guys, so be it, but let’s be honest about the problem right now: a bad offense compounded by horrible game management.
Would Boston trade us Mike Cameron and Jed Lowrie for Derek Lowe?
We couldnt get Lowrie for Lowe.
AAR, my fault. I didnt pay attention to who wrote that article before posting it. Anyways, job well done. Fredi sucks and its time people outside of Atl know it also.
Would Boston trade us Francona for Lowe?
4—O’Flaherty pitched, just not until later.
Agreed on Kimbrel. He’s a little wild, but it’s been mostly bad luck doing him in.
@2
I am sure DOB and Fredi will team up to trash AAR’s article.
@9
I agree. Kimbrel has been decent. I think he tries to make a perfect pitch sometimes, maybe a little too hard.
I think it is time to let Minor fill in for Beachy.
9 – I said he pitched. The thing that sucks is that he did pitch, and knowing that I wish he had just pitched the 7th.
We touched on this yesterday, in any event. The Braves have three excellent relief pitchers, but are forced to pitch them all the time because every game is close. A lot of that has to do with bad offense–Dan Uggla and Freddi Freeman have been horrible, Heyward has been awful for at least a few weeks, and McCann, usually the team’s best hitter, has posted a mere .328 wOBP this season. The other problem has been the bunting. If you give away outs intentionally, and then compound that by giving away more outs unintentionally on the base paths, then you’re not going to score a lot anyway. That’s especially true with this mediocre offense. The Braves will keep playing in close games, and thereby keep taxing Venters/EOF/Kimbrel, until the offense improves and/or Fredi learns to manage.
Oh. I thought, by “he,” you mean Proctor.
@2
Bunting is the new black.
Still can’t believe he let Teheran hit for himself with 1st and 2nd nobody out and a big inning looming, only to pull him in the bottom of the inning anyways. WTFF? That situation alone says that Fredi is unfit to manage a Dairy Queen, let alone my favorite baseball team.
The shitty part is that I know nothing will change. The Braves are full-up with “baseball men” that get aroused over productive outs. It’s a systemic problem I think. Other teams are just smarter than us.
It is amusing the lengths people will go to not trash the guys they “like.” Kimbrell has been mediocre at best. He K’s a lot of guys, but he also blows a lot of saves. If someone other than a pre-selected minor league favorite were putting up these results he’d be sliced to pieces. As it’s Kimbrell, who has been beloved here since before he was on the ML roster, it must be someone else’s fault. So we’ll go with overuse by the new manager that people have decided to hate.
15 – agree totally. Kimbrel has sucked ass. There’s nothing good you can say about him. Venters will surely get the job soon enough. The problem is that all 3 of our best relievers are pretty much going to have to pitch every game, because every night we score 3 runs and it’s always close.
15—If you want to play smart-guy, you should spell the player’s name correctly.
@15 – also, you should probably read carefully enough to discover that posters here are claiming poor luck, not overuse, for Kimbrel’s blown saves (see posts 4 and 9). Kimbrel will be fine.
15 – our “mediocre” closer is currently the most valuable reliever according to fangraphs…he got two potential double play balls last night in the eleventh but our fielding butchered them.
Also, the recap has it slightly wrong. It’s not that Dan Uggla threw home late. He just dropped the ball.
I miss Billy Wagner.
15 – It’s true. I have always loved Craig Kimbrel, at least as long as he has been talked up in the Braves system. When the team picked him to close, I thought “Finally! My dream of having Kimbrel close, as opposed to Venters, is finally coming true!” You absolutely peered right into my minds-eye to make that keen, insightful observation.
Of course, the problem is that I never said anything about overuse, and did not blame Fredi Gonzalez for Kimbrel’s problems. As NickH pointed out, our defense of Kimbrel, which hardly goes to crazy lengths or employs tortured logic, is simply that he has had bad luck on balls in play while posting wonderful peripherals. You’re conflating two different points, which is unsurprising, as doing so allows you to set up a nice little strawman to knock down. Well done.
Yeah, there’s nothing in the world wrong with Kimbrel. Mariano Rivera has three blown saves this year. I suppose he should be getting torn to shreds too. Unfortunately chained singles happen. Multiple ground balls that don’t turn into double plays when they easily could – those happen too. But he should be able to bear down and throw untouchable pitches when he needs to! Right?! Ugh. Kimbrel’s got 14.5 k/9 and a 3.4 k:bb ratio. What more do you want out of the guy? Magical grittiness? Immunity from bad luck? Ability to conjure unicorns? All of those things are equally available in major league closers.
Baseball Prospectus | The BP Broadside: Fredi Gonzalez Says Something Really, Really Dumb.
Kimbrel BABIP – .386, I dont see it staying that high esp. for a guy with his K #’s. He’s been very unlucky.
I should say that I don’t have a problem putting Venters into the closing role, or going back to the original plan of having either guy close on a given night. My main point is simply that Kimbrel has done a good job overall, and that teams are hitting ground balls off of him, which we want, that are finding holes, which sucks.
Moreover, even if you take Kimbrel out of the closer’s role, Fredi will either use him more or use a guy like Proctor more. Conversely, making Venters the closer will probably reduce his chances to pitch in other types of high leverage situations. Consider Fredi’s quote last night: “…on the road, you’ve got to push guys back a little bit, because you can’t use your closer on the road in the ninth inning of a tie game.”
Edit: I see Mac has already flagged the quote. But if we think about its implications, it means we probably want our best reliever to be our setup man.
The only thing more I want from the guy is to stop blowing saves. Venters has been demonstrably better than Kimbrel. Maybe it’s time to flip-flop them.
This is all kind of beside the point though. Like others have said, we’re always in close games and it seems like we rarely score more than 4 runs. Giving away outs via inexplicable bunts and terrible baserunning is the team’s biggest problem, and also the easiest to fix in that it doesn’t require anyone doing anything extraordinary – just need Fredi to stop “managing”.
2013-2014 UGA-Clemson games set.
What makes that quote even more laughable is that the Braves actually had a 3-2 lead when Fredi put Proctor in during the 7th.
I think Fredi plays Scrabble on his Iphone during the game and manages according to the words he can spell. “Bunt” is easy to spell, but just like baseball, won’t give you many points.
@30, zing.
Fire Fredi Gonzalez.
I think Fredi is actually Loki, the trickster god of the Norse pantheon, who made a blood oath with Odin yet used this closeness and brotherly love to cause as much mischief and discord as he could.
As we discussed yesterday, these low-scoring games stress the back of the bullpen. Time to loosen the pitch counts on our deep starting rotation, rather than relying on our (atypically) unsuccessful current crop of retread relievers. If the starter is pitching well through seven innings and has thrown less than, say, 110 pitches, send him back out there.
We wouldnt have as many low scoring games if we didnt bunt every time someone reached base.
35- Exactly. Fredi’s locked onto the idea that with offense down, every run is precious and one-run strategies need to be used. These strategies reduce run scoring even further, thus reinforcing the idea that we must always play for one (UND PRECISELY VON) run.
So how do we get out of this doom loop?
@24 – I nominate “Proctorizing yourself” for the glossary.
Fredi ready.
I stand by all of this.
I hate Fredi Gonzalez right now. But I don’t think nearly enough of us hate Larry Parrish.
Mac… that piece was a hell of prognostication. I wanted you to be wrong then. Unfortunately, you were right and then some.
The bunting wouldn’t be SO bad…if we weren’t so bad at it. BP ranks the Braves as the worst baserunning team in the majors, due entirely to our baserunners’ inability to successfully advance on ground balls and bunts. We’ve lost, according to them, 10 runs on the bases in these situations alone. Bear in mind this stat does not prejudge bunting — it just takes the situation that occurs and determines whether the runners involved get to where they’re supposed to go.
Oh, for the halcyon days of BC and TP, when all was right in Braves Nation
I still say Kimbrel needs one more pitch. If he could master a changeup, he’d be unhittable.
Anybody can throw a change up. I throw a ball as hard as I can, and Voila!
@33, I think he is more like Aun – Not a god, just a man willing to sacrifice his own sons to prolong his reign.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aun
If Kimbrel could aim a wild pitch into the dugout in the area of Fredi Gonzalez, that would be enough for me.
Just finished Jonah Keri’s book a few days ago. The stories about Joe Maddon sure sound nice…
We’re 1st in ERA and 8th in OPS. Philly is 3rd in ERA and 11th in OPS. We’re outhitting Philly and outpitching Philly yet we are 2.5 games behind them in the standings. Is this evidence enough that our manager stinks?
Well that and Uggla, to be sure.
Good call, Spike. I was also struck by the fact that Aun was “a mythical Swedish king of the House of Yngling,” because watching Fredi Gonzalez manage makes me want to drink heavily.
This is what I think we should trot out there for a while:
Prado 4
Heyward 9
Chipper 5
McCann 2
Hinske 7
AAG 6
Freeman 3
McLouth 8
Pithcer 1
Uggla needs to get out of his slump, and it’s hard to do that in batting practice. I only like the idea if Uggla fakes an injury and goes down for “rehab” work.
Kimbrel has also issued 10 walks in 21 innings. There’s nothing unlucky about that.
One walk was intentional.
Benching the guy that we just signed for a hefty 5 year contract is “Fredi stupid” if you ask me. Giving him a day off might not be the dumbest thing.
Vanderbilt is doing some recruiting work in Georgia, this week! Four really good defensive players –three, just today — from the Peach State!
Jais Valencio (which almost looks like a real name) now called up.
I was hoping for a Rowdy Hardy call up.
Nickname suggestion: Frediot.
So Fredo and the associated Fredoball are definitely out? Pity…
Ultimately, I’m good with calling him anything so long as it’s derisive and not “Fredi,” which makes it seem like we’re buddies. I cannot stomach the thought of any warmth towards him right now. My familiarity, insofar as it exists, is bred of disgust.
Good response to BJ, Mac. Don’t let him lead you afield, as he’s trying to do.
Frediot! I like that.
Just wrote a long response — he probably won’t use all of it. There’s a big difference between what people get away with and what is actually legal. I have to think, however, that Boras has looked at this, because it would be very unlike him not to try every angle, and he is a lawyer, unlike me.
I thought your original question was an ethical one, not a legal one, to which he unhelpfully replied that they should do whatever they’re legally allowed to do. Separating morality from legality ignores the presumed moral underpinning of making laws in the first place.
Well, I guess he has lead me afield after all. I started out with morality and I wound up at legality — but I think it’s both immoral and illegal. But Jesus Montero (say) is probably going to make about a million and a half over the next four years and then really big bucks afterwards, and it’s a lot harder to prove that it’s illegal than immoral that he won’t get a big payday now. The real problem is the players who don’t make the big leagues and wind up screwed up and not suited to do anything else, but the money — which is how you’d get something changed, it’s always about money — is in the Monteros and Teherans of the world.
Around the league: Jason Giambi has 3 homers in 3 at bats for the Rockies, top of the fifth inning.
“My guess is that Fredi Gonzalez will manage the Braves for most of two seasons, being replaced by a coach in late 2012 with a record a little better than his Marlins record. I hope I’m wrong.”
This.
Disappointed MLB didn’t switch to the Rockies game for Giambi’s 4th AB. He’ll get another chance, though.
That mouthwash commercial was nasty.
Looking forward to another evening of futility against an 88 mph fastball.
So how do we get out of this doom loop?
Treat him like you’d treat a sick dog: shoot him.
What are the odds Freeman gets it going at some point this summer? Are folks optimistic?
The curse of the first look.
Collmenter anagram: “Cement Roll”.
Chip’s proposed schedule apparently has 424 games.
How about The Curse of Always Swinging at the First Pitch.
Selig’s not ever going to do away with interleague. I wish we had a balanced schedule.
The Dbacks pitcher strikes me as a guy who’s only going to succeed until the league gets adjusted to his strange release point; he doesn’t seem to have much in the way of stuff, and his control is only average. Unfortunately, I don’t have a lot of faith that the Braves are going to be the team that solves the Riddle of Collmenter… we have a way of failing when facing pitchers for the first time, regardless of their quality (or lack thereof).
Joe Simpson is in a lovely mood tonight. He sounds like he wants to kick Chips ass!
Am I the only one whose MLB.tv is 30 minutes behind? Why am I just now seeing the game start?
Maybe it’s just me, but I’m convinced Ryan Roberts must have gotten his neck tattoo in prison. That thing looks gnarly.
Why would anyone want a tatoo on their neck?
70 year old Henry Blanco is still apparently in the majors and is Arizona’s backup catcher.
Nevermind, for some reason the feed I’m getting on my TV (using PlayOn) was from yesterday…
I think Joe is just moments away from telling some kids to get off his lawn.
You have to crush a ball to hit it out in CF.
@84 Too bad we can’t get him to tell Chip to get out of the broadcast booth.
The kid pitching is from a town about 25 miles away from where I live in Michigan…you would think he is Cy Young the way people talk about him around here. Although Cy Young could be taken from the grave today and still throw harder then this kid. Hibernation mode against this kid is poor
Nice work JJ
Heyward now at .217. Another week or so and we’ll have two guys under the mendoza.
Come on, guys. Runs aren’t evil.
Look kids, another close game.
Caps will be tipped.
#79–OK for now, but I have had trouble with MLBtv all season….
What happened to game threads, Mac?
I dunno, I just haven’t been feeling them recently.
I haven’t had any issues from mlbtv all year and I watch from computer, roku, and iPhone.
Ballgame
Ballgame.
If it weren’t for Freeman it would be a perfect game so far.
Ouch–I wonder how long it will take the Braves to get the run back….
As long as it takes Freeman to homer, since no one else felt like showing up tonight.
Ugh.
@99–a week and a half
Maybe JJ is throwing too hard….Fredi is also trying to figure out why the D-backs aren’t bunting more
And Jair just noticed, and if no one else gives two sh*ts, why should he?
@93 Thanks, it’s fine on my computer. For some reason it’s just not getting the current feed to watch on the TV. Oh well.
Ballgame. We suck. We’re the worst team in history. Wa! Wa! Wa! This board is depressing. I guess I’m beating a dead horse but the doom and gloom things really getting to me. It’s like we’re the Atlanta Eeyores.
wow, hell of a play by Uggla
Mourning recap. Uh, morning.
Yep, one of them “Arizona 2” nights. Hopefully, going to LA tomorrow might interest these guys in playing baseball.
Shin Soo Choo & David Wright?
We’re getting shut out by something called a “Collmenter.” I think we have a right to be displeased.
Makes no sense to pull JJ after only 84 pitches, esp with the abuse our pen hasnt taken recently.
So why would Fredlot start making sense now?
Freddie, whatever you had for lunch, you need to share with the rest of the team.
Frediot will call for a bunt for sure.
McLouth!!!!
(trying the pre-emptive route)
I’m going to throw up.
115- And if you put $100 on that proposition, you won… $102.50. Maybe.
Well, with it being a lefty on lefty there, maybe a bunt isn’t such a bad play, as opposed to most of the time when Frediot bunts.
I’m finally on the “what is Fredi thinking” schtick. Jurrjens only threw 84 pitches and he pulls him in the 7th. I thought he had 8 inning potential with his efficiency. I don’t get why we’re killing the bullpen.
how many more times do we have to note that Conrad’s glass slipper from last season has shattered
If Nate McLouth ever comes to the plate with baserunners on and no outs, a bunt is an absolute certainty.
122–Quite a few, I afraid…
There’s a question. Which will happen first:
Fredlot will see the pointlessness of three sacrifice bunts per game, or
Fredlot will notice that Conrad and Mather cannot play major league baseball, or
Fredlot will notice that half the bullpen cannot pitch, or
The world will end?
I’m actually OK with the bunt there, as it gives you two tries with the tying runs in scoring position. In late game situations like this, bunting is not necessarily a horrible thing to do. Early in the game, it’s pretty much always stupid.
At least we won’t have to worry about extra innings killing the bullpen tonight.
Nate is on pace to at least challenge the postwar record for sacrifice bunts in a season, which I think is 40 by Bert Campaneris in 1977. With that, I have to go to bed.
@125…actually, I think Wren is the idiot that needs to figure out Conrad and Mather are both a waste of a roster spot. Fredi is still a moron for the constant bunting and poor bullpen management though
Why not use Hinske instead of Conrad?
Or the bat boy?
Hinske doesn’t hit lefties well.
@132 True.
Six outs left. Down two. I know…let’s make an out on purpose!
@125
According to many, maybe the latter…
http://www.ebiblefellowship.com/outreach/tracts/may21/
@128
Remember when one of the arguments for Nate batting second was that Fredi was just trying to show that he had some level of confidence in him? Being asked to sac bunt EVERY time you bat with runners on base can’t be great for a guy’s confidence.
I’d be an apathetic sad sack too if I had to come in to work every day for a man so intellectualy incompetent as Fredi Gonzalez.
Time to start earning that $62 million.
EDIT: If that leads to a comeback, Uggla ought to toss $100K or so to Upton.
Disregard my previous comment. My GameDay and look-in are lagged to hell and gone.
At least we didn’t get shut out.
@100, hopefully that was prophetic.
This game was definitely not as close as the score.
At least we will be leaving Arizona….
Ron Gant just said Fredi should bunt more early in the game… Wow.
Okay, I can’t sleep until I recap this debacle.
Oh, and Mac- according to B-R, the all-time position player record for sacrifice hits in a season is 67, by Ray Chapman of the 1917 Cleveland Indians. Yeah, that Ray Chapman.
Recapped. Now to dream of unplugging Fredi Gonzalez from life support.
And it’s hard to hit for power when you’re constantly bunting.