212 thoughts on “Generational game thread: July 7, Braves at Phillies”

  1. The guys broadcasting the Gwinett game are gushing about Taveras. “He’s got too much talent [to be released 3 times].” Gimme a break.

  2. Tonight’s lineup:
    Prado – 4
    Infante – 9
    Chipper- 5
    Glaus – 3
    McCann – 2
    Diaz – 7
    Escobar – 6
    Cabrera – 8
    Medlen – 1

  3. @2 Taveras was just signed to a minor league deal a couple days ago… I think there was some talk of using him as the designated runner after Sept call-ups maybe.

  4. So we need not dis Taveras any more than he deserves. The guy is like the Aristotelian ideal of a fifth outfielder. He’s a legitimately excellent CF with a legitimately excellent arm and by whatever baserunning metric one likes, he’s one of the very best baserunners in baseball, including both steals and taking the extra base.

    Just don’t ask him or expect him to get on base more than 30% of the time or hit with any power whatsoever.

    If one has a roster where you can use those strengths without letting him see too much of the plate, he could be a very valuable guy, just as long as nobody gets enamored and thinks he should get some at-bats.

  5. Remember how well the makers of the last two Batman movies created that feel of endemic corruption and hypocrisy in Gotham City?

    That’s how I fell about this LeBron / ESPN “special”.

    I, for one, will not watch one scintilla. Nor will I allow my son to do so.

  6. well then…..CWS calls about Adam Dunn, Nats say sure for Gordon Beckham or Carlos Quentin

  7. I wonder how old Medlen was when Moyer was making his first start in the bigs??? Hopefully whoever is broadcasting the game tonight will be able to help the viewers put his age into perspective. Maybe they can tell us how much a gallon of gas or a loaf of bread cost all the way back in the eighties… Because that really never gets old.

    EDIT: LOL… I definitely did not read what Mac posted for this game thread.


  8. So we need not dis Taveras any more than he deserves. The guy is like the Aristotelian ideal of a fifth outfielder. He’s a legitimately excellent CF with a legitimately excellent arm and by whatever baserunning metric one likes, he’s one of the very best baserunners in baseball, including both steals and taking the extra base.


  9. Nathan, the Braves already have Blanco playing full-time and Josh Anderson in AAA and Alex Romero at AA. How many punchless outfielders does one organization need?

  10. Beckham is currently losing time to Li’lbridge in Chicago, which is about the worst thing you can say about somebody without using profanity.

    And this after I was assured on this board that Beckham was a better second baseman than Prado. Head scratcher.

  11. Mac, I don’t know much about Alex Romero, but Josh Anderson is a poor man’s Willy Taveras. If we need a guy like that, I’d rather have Taveras. There is certainly a big question about whether this team, as constructed, has a roster spot for a guy like that.

    Blanco’s certainly a much better full-time fill-in than Taveras would be; they hit for the same power, but Blanco on-bases fifty points higher, which waaaay outweighs the defense and the baserunning. But currently Brandon Hicks is sitting on the bench doing literally nothing for us. With Infante, we already have a backup SS. Taveras could provide some additional value late in tight games.

  12. Greetings from the Boston Public Library! Toured Fenway today. That was a lot of fun.

  13. I like Dunn, too. But where do you put him if Glaus is healthy?

    LF, with one of the current LF/CF options coming off the bench defensively in games where you have a lead late.

  14. @12 I kinda do too.

    Dunn AND Kemp!

    I mean, we’re playing friggin Hinske in left, Dunn can’t be that much worse.

    On a side note, I’ve gotten the basic framework up for the website for my baseball project!

  15. Man, I figured with Gallardo not being able to play in the ASG that Mat Latos would be his replacement, but Heath Bell got it instead. What does Latos have to do to get on this team?

  16. But where do you put him if Glaus is healthy?

    Left field? Maybe some right field on days Heyward isn’t playing and first base when Glaus isn’t playing.

    The Braves don’t seem interested in Dunn however. Guess the dynamic duo of Melky Cabrera and Gregor Blanco is just too much to break up.

  17. Reading just now about McClouth’s progress and that hes back by next week. GOOD GOD, NO. If he steals at bats from Blanco, that’s really, really bad.

    We have such a plethora of mediocre to bad, fringe outfielders in Atlanta & Gwinnett with McClouth, Schafer, Tavares, Blanco, Melky, Diaz, etc etc, it would just be nice to put an actual stud out there like Dunn or Kemp.

  18. #25

    Except in real-life Philadelphia, the SABR nerd gets stomped by the cretin, who would’ve already downed 5 Jägerbombs.

  19. John Sickels is doing another All Questions Answered thread. (He isn’t taking any more questions; he’s going through and answering them now.)

    Here are the Braves-related answers he’s given so far:

    Q: How would you rank Teheran, Delgado, Minor, Vizcaino, and Robinson Lopez, both relative to each other and among all prospects?

    A: Well frankly I like all of those guys. Vizcaino’s recent elbow problem knocks his stock back a bit until we see how he recovers. Of the others, I would rank them Teheran, Delgado, Minor, Lopez in that order, with the top three being B+ prospects. Teheran likely an A- by the end of the year, maybe even an A.

    Q: How would you rank the following first basemen?
    Wallace, Freeman, Morrison, Hosmer, Singleton.. Thanks!

    A: Hosmer, Morrison, Wallace, Singleton, Freeman

    Q: Freddie Freeman
    What type numbers do you see him putting up his rookie season?

    A: hmm

    .247/.309/.404 in 302 at-bats, lots of complaints from Braves fans.

    Keep checking in — more to come.

  20. Is the Braves’ TV feed picking up a particularly obnoxious heckler? The Phils’ feed sure is. I might turn on the radio guys.

  21. How does allowing fewer baserunners slow down the game? How does letting the pitchers have the actual strike zone without some clown hanging over the plate slow down the game?

  22. BTW, I don’t know that there’s a better example of the demise of the Royals — no, not even the acquisition of an entire pitching staff’s worth of Braves rejects — than that they drafted Sardinha in the second round in 1997 and couldn’t even sign him.

  23. Heres the question of the night from the Philly feed.

    Who are the two players to lead the Braves and Phillies in Saves?

  24. Trivia Q: What is the largest age difference between starting pitchers in a game since 1900?

    I think Knucksie started a game against Jose Rijo when they were about 26 years apart. Not gonna look, though.

  25. Peachtree TV trivia question:

    Since 1900 what’s the biggest age difference between starting pitchers.

    I’m going with Charlie Hough – “someone.”

  26. A: Satchel Paige (59) and Bill Monboquette (29).

    Edit: OK, now I’m looking it up. Sept. 8, 1985, Phil Niekro (46) vs. Jose Rijo (20). Knucksie got his 15th win that day, so I’m calling that the largest non-stunt differential until proven otherwise.

    (Also, in 1984, Rijo saved a game started and won by Knucksie….)

  27. better question…what would Jamie Moyers ERA look like with 30 starts vs the Braves?

  28. If you want to know why I think Satchel was the best pitcher of all time… In 1952, he put up a 3.07 ERA, went 12-10 with 10 saves for an awful team, and made the All-Star team. And was 45 years old.

  29. I definitely wasn’t a good hitter in college (couldn’t hit a decent breaking ball), but part of me would really like an at bat against Moyer. It boggles my mind that he does this to a major league team.

  30. 2-2 curveball to Ibanez was straight down the middle, no idea how it was a ball.

    250’ish yard homerun.

  31. If they’re stepping in the flower beds, fair enough. Just looked strange, as I really have a hard time seeing how Moyer could complain about the strikes and balls called today.

  32. No one scores from first better than Troy Glaus. He needs to teach Escobar to run bases.

  33. I am reminded of something Bill James wrote about Luis Tiant in the 1975 World Series — deception is a limited resource. I think Old Man Moyer has run out.

  34. Yeah, tough luck Moyer, you can’t get the same strikes on McCann as those pitches would be behind him.

  35. Victorino would have had to have a rocket up his ass to catch that ball.

    Welcome back Matty D!

  36. But obviously, Yadier Molina is much more worthy candidate to start the All-Star game…

  37. just think if Nate could somehow come back like Diaz and Jurrjens have, Heyward also.

  38. After the first out of the sixth Ernie Jr mentioned that the Braves, in 20 innings, had not had two consecutive hits against Jamie Moyer.

    Kris Medlen is a switch hitter?!?

  39. #115, especially when the other guy who is touted for the gig is Miguel Olivo, he of the .215/.318/.344 line away from Coors Field.

  40. A lot of good-hitting pitchers, including several Hall of Famers, were switch-hitters — Kid Nichols, Robin Roberts, Early Wynn. Zambrano is the only other active one I know of.

  41. @126 – agreed. Not a good first throw by Glaus. Esco earned his start by getting two there.

  42. Once Medlen becomes a little more known as a starter his change-up will be among those mentioned as the best in the league I think.

  43. Looking deeper, here are some other active switch-hitting pitchers: Bruce Chen (!), Jorge Sosa (!!), Wandy Rodriguez, Matt Belisle (!!!), Kyle Farnsworth (running out of !). Brad Woodall was one, too — I think that there’s probably some sort of hint about Braves drafting philosophy here.

    Oh, and Greg Harris was one. Obviously.

  44. Heyward coming back at even 3/4 of his start would make this a tough team to beat, presuming one of Diaz or Mclouth can keep hitting a bit.

  45. I wonder if we have a deal in the works with KK and that’s why we haven’t seen him in relief

  46. Im sure Wren is trying, I like the depth though. They probably think Minor is ready though also

  47. Please no KK in this game. A win here means a 6 game lead over the Phils. Plus tomorrow is an off day. Won’t be too long before some low leverage innings are around for KK to clean up.

  48. If we hold on here, don’t the Phillies have to start thinking about selling?

  49. smitty, would your barber approve of this trade:
    escobar and kawakami for furcal?

  50. @147 – Mets are losing late too – headed to the bottom of the 9th 3-1 down. Gotta close the deal here.

  51. Too early for the Phils to sell, esp. with Utley and Polanco returning in a few weeks. All the more reason to want to be 6 ahead of them after this game rather than 4 ahead.

    Also nice that the Mets are down to the Reds.

  52. For the love of God already, can Wren find a set up guy at the break? Saito SUCKS.

  53. No, hes not a good set up guy. I wasn’t thrilled when we added him in the offseason.

  54. We’ve got a setup guy in Venters, but Cox won’t use him that way until Saito’s blown a sufficient number of games.

  55. Saito

    BAA – .210
    H/9 – 6.3
    HR/9 – 0.9
    BB/9 – 3.2
    k/9 – 11.5

    I think that’s going to qualify as “not sucky”

  56. not a single ball was hit well that inning and saito’s era this year is in the mid-3s (and 2.21 for his career). also for his career, he has 88 walks to 337 ks, and a 1.016 whip. and he sucks? give me a break.

  57. Saito was going great before he went on the DL, but has been a little shaky since returning.

    Peavy out for the year with a “detached back muscle”. Ow.

  58. My favorite trivia question: Who was the last switch hitter to win the American League MVP?

  59. Saito does not suck. He got dinked that inning. If you think Saito sucks you need to get your head out of your ass.

  60. Phillies broadcast guys claiming Rollins hit that one to a “deep part” of the ballpark. Good one.

  61. Hell yes! This stretch before the break has been outstanding. 2 out of 3 from Washington, Florida and now the Phillies? Just don’t get swept in NY and that’s one hell of a run to get to the All Star break.

  62. Attention anyone who thinks Saito sucks — he’s the fifth most difficult pitcher to hit baseball history. Okay?

  63. @202

    That non-trade of Yunel and Hanson for Peavy is looking better and better all the time.

  64. Saito doesn’t suck. He is no where near the level of suckness. I think we all know what suckness means.

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