178 thoughts on “No, not June game thread: June 1, Phillies at Braves”

  1. From Mac’s comment on previous thread talking about lack of production from first base in 1991:

    Look at the whole lineup. It’s not exactly Murderer’s Row. This is one reason why the Jack Morris Game 7 is NOT the greatest game ever pitched. (Aside from the fact that Don Larsen pitched a perfect game against one of the greatest teams of all time.) Why the Braves won? Three words: Glavine, Smoltz, Avery.

  2. 1. Prado 2B, 2. Heyward RF, 3. Jones 3B, 4. Glaus 1B, 5. McCann C, 6. Escobar SS, 7. Infante LF, 8. Cabrera CF, 9. Hudson P

  3. Not really, Marc. The Braves were second in the league (to the Pirates) in runs scored that year, third (to the Dodgers and Pirates) in fewest runs allowed. They finished second in on-base and third in slugging. When they went “offense” with Blauser and Treadway in the lineup, they had six players with OWPs of .564 or better. (This is using a different OWP calculation than I used before, but shouldn’t be too different.)

  4. @7 – I don’t believe so. But it is refreshing to look at this lineup and not see both McClouth and Melky in it. I was getting tired of seeing that.

  5. Love the lineup. I’ll love it even more when Diaz comes back, though.

    I really hope the thumb was the major issue for Diaz this year. Don’t know if that’s misplaced hope, but it seems reasonable.

    A straight platoon of Hinske/Diaz and Melky/McLouth should pay off.

    For now, Hinske/Infante in left ain’t bad, either.

  6. Three Braves (Teheran, Minor, and Delgado) are in the MiLB top 5 for strikeouts this year.

    Now, if only we could get those bats going….

  7. One other thing about that 1991 team is that it had a fairly limited number of “good enough” guys — the type of player the team will say is good enough, but isn’t really, because they’re C-/D+ players at everything, with no strengths. They had a lot of players who had a lot of weaknesses, but everyone could do something. Lemke and Belliard were offensive zeroes, but legitimate Gold Glove-type fielders, particularly the former, and if the Braves had a lead late they were in to make the plays. (The offense/defense platoon at the middle infield is the lost secret to the 1991 club’s success — it worked brilliantly, even if the Braves abandoned it when Treadway collapsed the next year.)

    Hunter couldn’t get on base at all (.290) but he had real power (.450 SLG, .199 ISO). In opposition, Lonnie Smith’s power disappeared, but he had a .377 OBP. Similarly, the bench combo of Frankie Cabrera (.242/.284/.432, 10 XBH in 102 PA) and Keith Mitchell (.392 OBP — I still don’t know why Mitchell didn’t make it). Otis, of course, had no power at all, but his OBP was .371 and he stole 72 bases, plus he was another top defender at any outfield position. Bream wouldn’t make the offense better, but he wouldn’t kill you. Together with the genuinely outstanding play of Pendleton, Gant, and (when healthy) Justice, and the good play of Blauser and Treadway, it was a heck of an offense, better than most of the ones the Braves have put out there in the years since.

  8. it just took me 5 minutes to vote 25 times for heyward, prado, and bmac in the all star game. make sure and go to mlb’s website and vote otherwise it will be an all philly team.

  9. Glad to see Infante in Left today.

    And from those on the previous thread thinking we could at worst be 5 games over .500 in June-wake up. If we finish 1 game over .500 for the month we should be thrilled (especially with how the last few Junes have gone). I’m worried about the upcoming schedule and am predicting a 13-15 month which would leave us at 42-37 going into July.

  10. Here’s something to remember: The Braves have played five more games on the road than at home; after the upcoming road trip, they will have played a nearly unthinkable fourteen more games on the road than at home. And the Braves have the best home record in baseball.

  11. Mac I appreciate you featuring a song about my hometown and current residence. Not that you had me in mind.

  12. Not saying the Glaus signing wasn’t great, but keep in mind that it’s not just a one-year $1.75 million deal. The incentives push the deal to $4 million at 600 PAs and Troy is on pace for 648 right now. Saito also had .5 million in “appearances” and 1.8 million in “games finished.” Barring injury to Wagner, it seems Saito will get the .5 but not the 1.8 (Cot’s doesn’t have the specific targets).

  13. Thanks, Mac. I frankly did not realize the 1991 Braves were that good offensively, and I did neglect the defense, which was excellent. But they sure had trouble scoring in the playoffs and World Series (except for a couple of games).

    Interesting that the Braves and Phillies close out the season in October in Atlanta. Could be pretty important games.

  14. Well, the Pirates were, when you get down to it, a better team. The offense actually did okay against the Twins, 29 runs (or about 4.1 a game) but that’s skewed by the 14 they put up in one game. Take that out, and it’s 2.5 a game.

  15. I still think that if Otis Nixon isn’t suspended, the Braves win the 91 World Series and probably take care of the Pirates in five games.

  16. For one thing, Otis doesn’t get deked in the WS.

    I don’t know, though. Lonnie played awfully well when he re-entered the lineup full-time, though he faded in September, and for all the grief he gets he hit three homers in the Series. He was the team’s third-best hitter after Lemke and Pendleton. Now, if Otis had played instead of Gant

  17. In your defense Mac he never says Jackson, Mississippi. I’ve seen places that say he’s talking about Mississippi but don’t think there’s anything official. We just always assumed here just like I’m sure the fine folks of Jackson Tennessee and others do about their towns.


    That’s about all we’ve got other than the Charlie Daniel’s Song Uneasy Rider:

  18. This is what the “trusted” source wikipedia had to say:

    “Jackson” is a song written by Jerry Leiber and Billy Edd Wheeler about newlyweds making the discovery that, after jumping much too quickly into marriage, the “fire” has gone out of their relationship. They both want to go to Jackson, where each looks forward to a new life free of the other. Although the song does not specify whether Jackson, TN or Jackson, MS is the destination, the lyrics do clearly reference gambling. During the period from the 1920s until the 1960s, illegal gambling casinos flourished on the east side of the Pearl River, along the original U.S. Route 80 just outside the city of Jackson, MS in Flowood. The infamous casinos might have been the inspiration for those lyrics.

    Those illegal casinos referenced (perhaps) by the song, along with bootleg liquor stores and nightclubs, made up the Gold Coast, a strip of mostly black-market businesses which operated for decades along Flowood Road, just across the Pearl River from downtown Jackson. Though it existed outside the law, the Gold Coast was a thriving center of nightlife and music, with many local blues musicians appearing in the clubs regularly. The Gold Coast disappeared after Mississippi’s prohibition laws were repealed in 1966, allowing Hinds County, including Jackson, to go “wet”


    Bunch of sex shops and bait stores now. And I think a western sizzlin.

  19. And thus will end your Jackson Mississippi history moment so we can get back to baseball.

    Who’s the emergency catcher with Matt Diaz on the DL?

  20. Phyllis and Bob, their celebrity couple name would be…Phylob. You look at her, and she’s kind of matronly today. But back in high school, I swear, her nickname was “Easy Rider.”

  21. Probably Conrad. He did catch in two games in AAA in 2007. Though Infante has played everywhere else, and I’m willing to bet that Hinske has at least donned catcher’s gear just for practice at some point.

  22. Hinske has been mentioned as an emergency catcher more than once in his past as well.

  23. I was supposed to umpire tonight and was thinking I would have to catch the highlights on Sportscenter. Good thing the coaches got their wires crossed and I get to watch tonight.

  24. Kevin Goldstein at BP called Teheran the best pitcher in the minors outside of Strasburg. Might be stating the obvious given his start, but nice to hear all the same.

  25. Smoltz can take this opportunity to do some deep breathing exercises. Vin Scully he ain’t.

  26. Is this delay going to be so long it knocks Hudson out of the game? Hate to see that happen to him two starts in a row.

  27. For any Modern Warfare 2 fans out there, Cole Hamels’ start was brought to us by the Fight Against Glaus Spam.

  28. All of a sudden, Venters pitching yesterday doesn’t seem as good an idea.

    If we have to piece 8 innings together from the pen, how do we do it?

    O’Flaherty 2
    Chavez 2
    Medlen (throw day)

  29. Hah. I don’t turn on the game for a few minutes so I can finish reading a paper, and I get there just in time for the rain delay and just after we’ve scored 3 runs. Yeesh.

  30. Whoever put the rain magnets in the Braves equipment bags might have to fess up soon. A practical joke only goes so far.

  31. Don’t they have an underground bullpen or something? Seems like Hudson could just go throw some pitches every 15-20 minutes. It would shorten his outing, but we could at least get four innings or so out of him.

  32. They’ve got indoor batting cages with a mound Hudson is probably throwing off of.

  33. My feed of PeachtreeTV is still showing the stadium. There’s no rain falling–people are getting back in their seats and people are out in the standing room areas just as usual. I guess they’re waiting for the rain to get out of the area.

  34. Sometimes I make the mistake of wanting to like Bobby Valentine, but then he goes and says something so annoying that I’m relieved of that problem. Tonight: “The Marlins are positioned as well as anyone in the NL East, if the Phillies fall back to the pack, to take advantage of it and blah blah blah…”

    My response: Hey, Bobby– where are the Phillies? Oh, yeah. In the freakin’ pack!


  35. The Lisp might get in some work tonight if Hudson has another shortened outing.

  36. Heyward needs to start swinging the bat. He took a called 3rd strike yesterday, too. :-D

  37. @24

    A few guys in Cash’s band were from Jackson, TN, so it could be about that Jackson

  38. I think Glaus has a shot at making the All Star team.

    I know we can’t stand Chip, but I really like Joe and John. Smoltz cracks me up

  39. #85 charging as if to catch it. ball dives and fortunately he gets a glove on it or it goes to the wall. looked catchable to me.

  40. 85 — It was a hard hit one hop base hit in front of him. He misplayed the skip off the grass and it nicked off the tip of his glove as it went past him. It was fortunate that he got leather on it, otherwise a run would have scored.

  41. Hudson threw two change-ups at 3-2, very good pitches and both fooled Utley.

    Ah, might have been a sinker, just thought the speed looked like change-up. Was a great strike out in any case.

  42. Another good at-bat by Glaus. I expected him to “suck less” after the first month or so, but he has been really solid. I agree he’s unlikely to get picked for the all-star game though, just due too the number of first basemen in the mix.

  43. The Phillies look just totally dysfunctional right now. I don’t know who’s to blame or what they should do. The obvious prescription is to fire the manager, but unless you’re Steinbrenner in his prime, you can’t really fire a guy who just won two pennants in a row.

  44. They just gotta do what the Braves have done many times (even during the streak)…ride it out.

  45. BMac looked pretty slow around third there, hopefully he was just not running hard.

    The Phillies was really good at working pitchers when they were going good, most of them seem to be up there just wildly hacking away now. Making piles of stupid errors won’t help any either though.

  46. ha!
    Watching him fall on his butt making that catch reminded me of myself in the outfield.

  47. I still can’t get over the organist playing Werewolves of London when Ibanez comes to bat. The guy’s good.

  48. They called batter interference because Victorino drilled McCann in the head on his follow through. That was just after he threw his bat in the stands and hit some poor lady. What a douche.

  49. I love the ESPN guys– “whatever can go wrong for the Phillies is going wrong.” Or perhaps, “whatever they can do wrong, they are.” About 80% of their comments tonight have been “poor Phillies” comments….blah blah blah. At this moment, right now (maybe not tomorrow, but tonight), the Braves are the better team.

  50. I’m sorry, but in this case I think they’re right. The Phillies are in freefall, and they’re the two-time league champs, and right now nobody on that team can do anything right.

  51. He’s simply saying that the use of passive voice obscures the fact that the Phillies are in fact agents of their own problems; they’re the ones doing stuff wrong, which is slightly different than stuff going wrong around and to you.

  52. Mac–

    Fair enough, and I’d agree that there’s a Murphy’s Law thing going on here, but what I was getting it (perhaps badly) was that the ESPN guys seem to want to focus on the Phillies as being victimized, not just playing badly. At the moment, the Phillies are playing about as badly as the Braves did during the 9-game Streak That Shall Not be Named. It’s starting to border on making excuses. It’s not like the Phillies have hit 20 “at-em” balls on the button tonight. I remember one hard-hit ball tonight (Howard’s liner, Melky’s ballet move). Other than that, they’ve just been shut down. Same thing yesterday.

  53. Nothing worse than an umpire with an inconsistent zone. Heyward had a shot at robbing that ball if he had been positioned better.

  54. @129: Yeah, that flare-up with Oswalt was a typical Hohn moment. He took a minor brush fire and turned into a conflagration.

  55. My favorite Hohn escapade was last year when as the home plate umpire, he ejected Chipper, who was standing 90 feet away at third base.

  56. Did Chris Singleton just say that J-Hey has been “very very opposite of disappointing?” What does that even mean?

  57. @136 – Yeah, I kinda cocked my head when I heard that. Even Chip couldn’t say anything that elaborately stupid.

  58. “Has anyone really been far as decided to use even go want to do look more like?” – Chip Caray

  59. for those watching, any chance Wagner is warming given that 3 of the next four are lefties?

  60. I don’t want to sound ungrateful, but that pitch that he just called strike three on Ibanez was the same pitch he didn’t call on Howard, right before the HR. Just sayin’….

  61. @149: Absolutely it was. I noticed as well. I don’t care what zone an umpire has, I’d just like him to be consistent.

  62. I don’t mind inconsistency as much when it involves the umpire fixing his strikezone.

  63. I don’t know if you guys have heard, but apparently Cox talked with Heyward about being more aggressive a few weeks ago…

  64. I’m gonna guess that Jonny gets one more hitter….?

    UPDATE: And that’s that, I guess.

  65. @168: After last year and Mike G.’s 9th inning circuses (circii?), it is nice to have a closer who keeps things boring, isn’t it?

  66. Wow….you guys see the Astros/Nats highlights? Hohn effed the Nats tonight like he did the ‘Stros last night. Bottom 9, 2 outs, 2 strikes on Berkman, check swing, they appeal to Hohn at 3rd, he says “no swing.” Replay shows it’s a pretty clear swing. Next pitch he hits for the game-winning single.

    That’s our Billy!

  67. It’s nice having a hard throwing lefty to face Howard in that situation. It’s sure better than Bob Wickman.

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