Eric Hinske Statistics and History – Baseball-Reference.com
A poor man’s, lefthanded Glaus, a third baseman who’s spent his career living down an early season his skills couldn’t really sustain. In Hinske’s case, he won a Rookie of the Year award with the Blue Jays in 2002 for hitting .279/.365/.481 with 24 homers, a legitimate ROY type season. But rather than build on it, Hinske went backward almost immediately. He was below-average in 2003 and 2004, and average in 2005, before playing well in the first half of 2006. Wanting to dump him and his contract, the Blue Jays out and out sold him to the Red Sox in August of that year. He retreated to average for the rest of that season, and stunk in 2007. This left him no other choice but to sign with the Rays. He had an odd year, hitting 20 homers (second-best for his career) but only .247, with a .333 OBP, robbing him of most of his value. He started 2009 with the Pirates, where suddenly his power disappeared (only one homer in 126 PA) but after he was traded to the Yankees it reappeared (seven in 98).
Was a third baseman; when he stopped looking like a star he became a utility player, who plays third, first, and both outfield corners. He’s not great at any of them but won’t kill you either… Natural platoon player, career line of .263/.347/.456 against righthanders, only .221/.296/.370 against lefties. He obviously won’t platoon with Glaus at first base unless something goes catastrophically wrong, but an occasional spot start there against tougher righties would be smart. I expect that when Chipper sits, Infante will get the call, but Hinske’s a better bet to play some third than Norton was. Like Norton in 2008, there’s a good chance that he will be the team’s best option in an outfield corner against righthanders, but I don’t expect to see it.
Maybe he’ll platoon w/Diaz.
Also, his postseason OPS is 1.400. Count it.
Let’s help him beat Baylor’s record:
http://sullybaseball.blogspot.com/2009/11/eric-hinske-and-don-baylor.html
As long as Hinske is only playing part time this is a good pick up. If we start seeing a lot of Eric Hinske on the field then we are in deep kimchee.
Hinske is a good pick up–especially after Norton….
Otherwise, I am waiting for the latest round of Damon rumors….
What does Smitty’s barber say about Johnny D?
Completing some thoughts from the last thread:
– Are the Braves better off to start this season that last season? Absolutely!
– Are they better off at the start of the year this year than the end of the year last year? Probably not, but not a huge downgrade over a very hot team.
– Could Wren have used his assets better? Absolutely! He got about all he could for Soriano. He got a good A ball pitching prospect and Melky Cabrera (in addition to a basically even swap for Logan) for Vazquez. IMO we could have picked up a free agent (Damon, DeRosa, Cameron) that was much better than Melky for not a whole lot more. Why not a second prospect (hopefully a position player) a little farther along from the Yankees and forget Melky? In the end I think Wren’s insistence on a 1 year contract doomed us to either reclamation projects or players who have not lived up to their “potential”.
It’s impossible to say if Wren could have used his assets better. How could we possibly know? It’s easy to say, he could have gotten a second prospect, but this is just rank speculation without knowing what was really going on. Maybe he could have done better, maybe not, but none of us can really know. As for 1 year contracts, assuming that he did insist on that, it makes sense given the expectations for Heyward. Why tie up what is obviously a limited payroll and always will be for players that won’t be playing in a year or two?
did everyone here know we released reid gorecki? i didnt. he was picked up by the yankees.
as for melky, i hope he is not a brave in march. imo, his value as a hyped yankee prospect has not diminished yet, but will as soon as he gets expensive (which will be next year). trade him now while people still think he can play centerfield!
There is no way in hell you can’t do better than trade your ace for a fourth outfielder and two prospects.
Yeah ryan, Yanks picked up Gorecki and Royce Ring on minor league deals apparently.
So what you’re saying is that Wren is so stupid that he didn’t know that he should actually try to get good players in a trade. Wren must be the dumbest guy in baseball. Just like Schueholz was so dumb that he didn’t realize trading Kevin Millwood for a minor league catcher wasn’t a good idea.
Nice summation of the argument Marc.
@10
Right on. The reality for the Braves nowadays is that Ted Turner is gone and we aren’t the Red Sox or the Yankees. Some people can’t get a grip on that. When you’re dealing with a hard cap payroll from your corporate overlords and trying to balance fielding a competitive major league team with developing young players in the minors and not blocking them forever in the majors (which is a necessity with the lowered payroll), you do what you have to do.
We can sit here and talk about OBP and WAR and contract terms all day long, but the reality is that Wren is not an idiot and I’m sure is making what he thinks are the best moves for the organization. Not saying that there haven’t been stupid GM’s (See: Dayton Moore), but it gets so tedious to read about how our GM is doing such a poor job. We’re CLEARLY in a better position than we were at the beginning of last year and it can be argued at the end of last year, so much so that it blows my mind that people can’t see that.
Maybe if we had traded Vazquez for Pujols people would finally have been happy. Somehow I doubt it though.
Frank Wren is not an idiot, but Mark McGwire thinks I am.
From the last thread/128,
One point: Rally’s replacement level is different from Fangraphs’ or BPro’s.
13 — Funny! But we all are, sometimes, with such a topic, right?
I am very unemotional about Hinske.
Hinske > Norton
Some ESPN baseball analyst (maybe Olney, not John Kruk) was talking about Mark McGwire and saying that he felt sorry for Wally Joyner since he came into the league at the same time and was better at the beginning of their careers.
Wrong example, since Joyner was in the Mitchell Report and admitted brief use of steroids. Surely Joyner didn’t use to the extent or effect that McGwire likely did, but there’s gotta be a better option… dare I say Kruk?
My problem with Cabrera is that I don’t think he’s much of an upgrade over Ryan Church. Melky has a little more speed and similar power. The only thing he brings is that he gets injured less. I understand that Melky is cheaper than what Church would have been through arbitration, but I still say that getting a higher level prospect and keeping Church (or signing someone like Cameron) would have been wiser.
We’ll see how this trade works out, but no way that I rate the Vazquez trade anything above a C or D for Atlanta. Wren’s not an idiot, but I still say he could have done much better.
I give Wren an A – for this off season.
1. We don’t know what the actual market for Vazquez was but, after some initial irrational outrage, I am good with what we got. Clearly one great year out of JV wasn’t enough to erase his history of inconsistancy and everyone knew the Braves had to trade a pitcher putting us in a position of weakness.
2. It should be clear to everyone by now that DeRosa and Cameron were out of our price range. Especially in the light that it took the trade of Vazquez to allow Wren to acquire Glaus at a potential 4 million and Hinske at 1.5.
3. DeRo and Cameron are up past 36. Why commit 12 to DeRo or 15.5 to Cameron?
4. The payroll is what it is. This could be worse. We could have Jeff Loria as an owner.
@13
Note to Mark McGwire:
Whatever, dude.
@19, to add to #1, Vazquez also has a partial no-trade clause, which apparently limited his value.
FWIW, Brett Myers to Houston, 1 year/$5 mil.
I think I would be pretty happy with the offseason if we had gotten Cameron as a FA and gotten another decent prospect in the Vazquez trade (instead of Melky).
I know we are not far off of that, but I’m not asking for much at all.
I really don’t see how anyone could muster any outrage about steroids at this point. It’s pretty clear they were a) rampant and b) condoned by the tacit approval or willful ignorance of both ownership and the journalist community. There’s really no one left to be mad at. The post hoc finger pointing and moralizing by the latter two is particularly nauseating.
“I give Wren an A – for this off season.”
Johnny, I’m not a Wren basher, but if you give him an A- for this offseason your grading and expectations are pretty low. Let me know if you start teaching full time.
Jack Zduriencik ruined the curve.
td – point taken. I guess my point was that counter to yours I don’t think Frank could have done much better given the restrictions he was working under.
I once wanted to be a teacher. Database Administrator is better I think …..
Spike I am with you. I am in the so effing what stage of the steroid saga. More names will be leaked blah blah blah blah. They were there, they were used, they enhanced performance. Hopefully not anymore but you never know …..
I don’t really care what people think or don’t think about steroids. I never liked the steroid guys & when they get humiliated in public or snubbed by the HoF, I’m perfectly fine with it.
And, in my book, McGwire humiliated himself again yesterday. No matter what anybody thinks about steroids, you can’t go on national television, lie & expect people to forgive you.
I don’t know what grade I would give Wren for this offseason–but my sympathies are with td #5. This might not be the time to rehash it, but Wren’s options were limited by things done earlier (especially signing Lowe). We will probably never know at what point Liberty Media began to limit Wren–if it was before signing Lowe, then it was a highly questionable move at best because it meant that he had committed about 17% of the Braves salary for an aging pitcher who was basically nothing more than better than average.
Now, far more likely is that Liberty began to restrict the Braves’ budget after the signing of Lowe. The manner in which the Braves managed the 2009 draft revealed a team which had become as concerned with saving money as it was selecting the best talent.
All of that said, I think what is disappointing about Vazquez deal is that it does little to help the Braves win in 2010. I doubt that the Braves are nearly as good now as they were at the end of the 2009, but at least they are better than they were at the beginning of the season.
On the positive side, Wren should be given credit for bringing in another quality arm and holding on to our prospects.
Therefore, with some luck we should be competitive in 2010 and even better in 2011….
Really pisses me off that Maddux is signing with the Cubs instead of the Braves. Not that any of us would be surprised, but everything I’ve ever read/saw/heard about him suggests that (in the long term) he’ll end up being as valuable in a front office role as he was a pitcher.
When you talk about burning bridges with ex-players, (ie: Glavine, Smoltz) this is a clear consequence. I can’t imagine that not having some play in this. Wren should have just signed Smoltz, and definitely not lead Glavine on when they knew they weren’t going give him a spot on the big league roster.
It really makes me angry (in a sports mindset) that this FO kissed Francouer’s ass for so long when he’d done nothing to deserve it, yet was so callous to a pair of H.of Famers.
you can’t go on national television, lie & expect people to forgive you.
Judge not, lest ye be judged. And while we’re on the subject “I’m not here to talk about the past” isn’t exactly what I would characterize as a falsehood. He sought immunity from the committee panel, was not granted it, and therefore was subject to perjury charges. He did not perjure himself apparently, although he did not give the mea culpa at that time that schadenfreude inspired onlookers may have desired. Henry Aaron has found room in his heart for forgiveness. Would that all of us could aspire to a similar standard of humanity.
In any event, I don’t think a third party gets to decide is someone is humiliated or not – pretty sure that’s an individual’s decision. And as far as “snubbed by the HOF” – let’s wait until it happens. McGwire was a borderline guy with a very famous record – much like the previous record holder.
Judge not, lest ye be judged. And while we’re on the subject “I’m not here to talk about the past” isn’t exactly what I would characterize as a falsehood. He sought immunity from the committee panel, was not granted it, and therefore was subject to perjury charges. He did not perjure himself apparently, although he did not give the mea culpa at that time that schadenfreude inspired onlookers may have desired. Henry Aaron has found room in his heart for forgiveness. Would that all of us could aspire to a similar standard of humanity.
Well said, spike. I’m with you and Hank.
Agree with Spike. The fact that McGuire did not get immunity (which surpises me) makes his statement perfectly understandable. There was no reason to incriminate himself. I wish this had come out at the time. Having said that, I found his lachrymose statements to Costas rather embarrassing. Just say you did it, you screwed up, and enough with it. The guy has millions of dollars–it didn’t destroy his life.
I have mixed feelings about the steroid issue. I doubt that steroids alone led to the home run totals in the 90s–certainly it helped some more than others. But McGuire hit 49 home runs as a skinny rookie. So, he hardly needed steroids to hit homers. It seems likely that, as he says, he took them to recover from injuries. It’s not even clear how much impact steroids have on home runs; I’m sure added strength helps but it certainly doesn’t help you hit the ball. As for cheating, baseball (and sports in general) have a long history of condoning, if not encouraging cheating–see the 1951 NY Giants, for example. I’m against steroids for the health effects but, in terms of cheating, I’m not sure steroids are as bad as other things that have been done in baseball. And, as people have pointed out before, the sainted players of the fifties and sixties took greenies in droves to keep going.
On the other hand, steroids are illegal and the players knew that. It bothers me when people say whatever you do is acceptable so long as you win.
I guess my feeling is that you can condemn the use of steroids without condemning the user. I don’t think the fact that McGuire or anyone else took steroids by itself makes them bad people. They didn’t defraud people out of billions of dollars or virtually destroy the financial system. (On the other hand, Barry Bonds was an asshole for many reasons other than steroids.) I dislike the sanctimony of many people who might have done the same thing as the players in the same situations.
I agree with most everything said here about McGwire except Spike’s assertion that he is a borderline HOF case. Mac had an OPS+ of 162 good enough for 12th all time and is 8th all-time in HR. How much of that was due to steroids is a different question but on number alone, he’s a slam dunk HOFer.
I operate under the assumption that pretty much EVERY player used steriods during the ‘Roid Era. Why wouldn’t they? Millions of $$ on the line, no testing, and the guy you are competing with for a job just hit an extra 20 dingers last year by using.
I don’t blame anybody for using. I blame baseball for not testing.
RE: Wren’s Grade
I think Frank’s hands were tied by Liberty, so I cut him some slack. But my big question is: if payroll is limited, why shell out big bucks to Billy Wagner?
Dusty, you’d better look at the number of AB’s and McGwires comp list again. Not too many HOF’ers with 1600 or so hits. His rate stats are as you note, top shelf, but his counting stats, other than HR’s and Walks, less so. For example, he is 73rd in RC. I didn’t say he’d be a bad choice based on those totals, but certainly, there is an argument to be made whether his career value is high enough to warrant election. He missed a LOT of playing time over the years.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mcgwima01.shtml?redir
I played highscool ball against Johnny Damon, 5 or 6 times total, and he was the fastest non-african american I ever saw. Dont know if that still applies.
Mac’s not a typical case though Spike. I agree many of the counting stats are lower than your normal HOF standard, but Mac has the highest HR/AB ratio thing going for him too.
It’s really hard to compare anyone to him though which is why you can find some disagreement I suppose. But 8th in HRs and 11th in unadjusted OPS is pretty darn hard to argue for me. He got on base tremendously well and had probably the best power ever.
14
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=4022&position=OF
It looks like most of it comes from the believe that he will play center and hit like a champion.
Fare thee well, Bojones.
Dusty, of course there is a case for Mac, and a good one too. My point was that his vote totals aren’t out of line given his body of work, and his percentages are probably equally influenced by only having 3 100 run seasons for example (I was shocked when I noticed that) as much as any cumulative HOF snub.
I think the Braves should start throwing in free airfare to Kansas City when players are released.
Seriously, how long before Dayton snags Brandon?
Marc at #10:
So what you’re saying is that Wren is so stupid that he didn’t know that he should actually try to get good players in a trade. Wren must be the dumbest guy in baseball. Just like Schueholz was so dumb that he didn’t realize trading Kevin Millwood for a minor league catcher wasn’t a good idea.
No, that’s what YOU are saying. I said that there is no way in hell you can’t do better than trade your ace for a fourth outfielder and two prospects. Don’t put stupid words like that in my mouth.
Wow this is kind of harsh:
DJ (Cuse)
Will Frank Wren go down as one of the worst GM’s in history? this guy is a bumbling idiot. What are your thoughts?
Rob Neyer (12:09 PM)
He’s not even in the running yet, DJ. Granted, this hasn’t been a great winter for the Braves. But let’s see what happens over the next nine months before we start calling for someone’s head.
I give Wren a “B-” for the offseason. Hated the Vazquez trade at first but have softened a little and think we overpaid for Wagner but admirable job for the most part given the resources.
B. Jones to the Royals would be pretty decent for them IMO. Therefore, I can’t see Moore doing it. Plus he’s all about the White Sox’s scrap players now.
I’m not talking about McGwire’s performance in front of congress. I’m talking about the lies he tried to pass off last night with Costas.
And I’ll judge him all I want.
@44, If other GMs think his season is a fluke, know that we have to trade him or Lowe to meet our other needs, and he can’t be traded to the West Coast…I’m not sure what’s so difficult to understand.
Speaking of Dayton…
I just went to the lahman db site, and even though there’s not a link to it on the web page yet, the new db is on the server. It looks like it was put out at 2:08 PM today (1/12/10), so you can be the first kid on your block with the 2009 numbers.
I misunderstood your reference then. I apologize. Let me read the transcript of the program.
(Actually watching Costas and McGwire, two of the people I least want to hear speak about anything would be too much to bear.)
And you can feel free to judge all you like – neither I nor the scriptural quotation said you couldn’t, or even shouldn’t.
No sweat. I don’t like the steroid guys. What can I say?
BTW, dinner is served:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZbQ8ZQBkig
Yeah, that was awesome, ububba. Couldn’t have happened to a nicer guy, either.
You know that Sport Science feature on Alabama Heisman Winner Mark Ingram that P.W. and I were raving about a few entries ago? Well… BAM!
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4804143
That’s a pretty funny post, #49. It’s always struck me as sad that the Royals have a high density of talented writers in their fanbase and never produce anything positive for them to express (outside of Greinke’s story). Maybe they’re such good writers because the best art comes from bitterness, rage, sadness, and disappointment.
As bad as some of us feel Wren has been this offseason, he’s definitely not anywhere close to the worst GM around – even during this offseason. There needs to be a trophy for the worst GM moves during the offseason. I don’t know if it should be called “The Pirate Award” or “The Met Award” – maybe just the “Minaya”.
Liberty Media is a whipping boy for many, but I really don’t blame them a lot for this offseason. Our payroll is limited just like most other teams that don’t reside in Boston or NY, but it’s nowhere close to the worst. I think Wren could have done better without spending more money (possibly less), but we’ll never really know. The thing I will give Wren credit for is that we’ve been able to keep most of our high upside prospects and the farm seems to be getting better in general. This definitely bodes well for 2011 and beyond.
I don’t like the steroid guys
I don’t either but I wish McGwire had thrown down a bat or something during his congressional questioning and screamed “Were you not entertained?” a la Russel Crowe’s Gladiator. The fact is there were any number of institutions or people that could have prevented this, but were far too invested in the good results to look under the hood. The disingenous moralizing from those who had it in their power to stop it is a bit more offensive in my eyes. Especially McGwire, who I never cared for as a player, and am marginally uncomfortable sticking up for now in large part because the telltale signs were there and even being discussed at the time by some early Cassandras,but no serious attempt was made to stop the Sosa/McGwire sideshow. Too much money was being made by too many to bother in 1998, but those same folks are the first in line to tut-tut in 2010.
im thinking that DFA’ing Jo Jo might have been better also
Spike,
I get all that, and MLB, Selig & the players union reek from here to there.
There’s plenty of blame or culpability (or whatever you wanna call it) to go around, but I just always come down to this: The players did it and if they didn’t think a bill was going to come due at some point (for some of them), then they should’ve.
Ah, I love it when a dope behind a computer screen calls a guy who’s been in executive roles in baseball for well over a decade a “bumbling idiot.”
Love the totally unwarranted hubris.
We keep referring to PEDs as a thing of the past but us there any reason to believe that the majority of players today aren’t on HGH? I mean, I want to believe the game is clean now but there’s no test.
The thing with steroids is that not everybody was using, it’s the inequity of the playing field that is the issue for me. But to put it another way, does babe ruth deserve to be in the hall of fame because he never hit a hr against a black pitcher?
Re: 61, if HGH is what they’re all taking, they’re not taking PEDs. HGH doesn’t help you do anything, really, if you’re an adult athlete; it just makes your organs bigger (with corresponding health damage). See J.C. Bradbury’s work at Sabernomics.
Strong rumor here that Kiffin has accepted the USC job. People are freaking out. I am not sure that it is true, but…
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4820737
Looks like a done deal
This is a real shocker.
http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/ncf/news/story?id=4820737
Whoops, didn’t see Smitty post that.
I hope he burns in hell
Man, I’m sure glad they chose Lane Kiffin over Phil Fulmer…
This is hilarious, but, unfortunately, it’s a good thing for UT. Kiffin is a joke, and his replacement can’t be worse.
They could promote Orgeron.
He may not make it out of Knoxville…
What makes you say that, Stu? Disregarding the massive turnaround this past year if you want to blame it on Fulmer losing control, I can’t imagine the Kiffin’s being anything other than a package deal, meaning Monte is probably gone too. That can’t be good for UT
It sets the program back at least 3 years.
Apparently Orgeron and Monte are both going with.
Orgeron is going to USC too, according to the article.
Actually I’m ecstatic. Good riddance. Will miss his dad though. We can do much better than Lane.
Kiffin would have been good for UT in the 5-7 year range. Even would have been good in the 2-3 year role of building the talent. Still too soon to call it on his coaching ability, but we had good coordinators and position coaches set up, and the recruiting was also a step up. It’s football, not charm school.
Fulmer was atrocious, Rob. I’d probably take Charlie Weis over him at this point. Well, if those were the two, I’d take whichever would work for less. You get the point.
Sorry, Smitty, but I can’t help but laugh. Wow.
I hope USC goes on probation and Kiffin gets shot in a drug deal gone wrong in Compton.
Now he can lose to UCLA every year.
Are you really sad he’s gone Smitty? I was on board in the “he’s our idiot kinda way” but now that he’s gone, I can let the true feelings out. He acted like a petulant frat boy and embarassed the university. It was mildly entertaining at times, and he may have had some short-term success, but I’m happy to move on.
I think USC will regret this.
Yep – I think Kiffin leaving will be good for UT.
Of course, let’s see who they can get to replace him.
Kiffin’s a douche, plain and simple. It’s like when Josh from The Office left Dunder-Mifflin for Staples. Jim says, “Say what you will about Michael Scott, but he would never do that.” Say what you will about Phil Fulmer, but he was loyal to Tennessee.
I’m sure Lane Kiffin won’t be crying on the way to the bank, but I wonder if he realizes that teams are probably more excited to get his dad than him himself. I would be more excited about getting Monte and Orgeron than Lane Kiffin.
What a douche…
To go back to our accountant fight earlier, MLB is publically telling the Marlins they need to start spending their revenue sharing money on the team –
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601079&sid=a6t7_lEtzjlg
I care more about winning games (granted, this year wasn’t so great for that) than being able to chant “SEC” without any conflict in my heart. So yep, not thrilled about this one.
USC should be easy to win at. He had us in decent shape on the rebuilding process, so I think he can keep that train rolling. Can he win big games? That’s the question for them, but I don’t really see a reason to call that a definite weakness at this point.
The thing that is going to hurt the most is losing a large part of our recruiting class if we don’t get a coach who can keep them around. We had 65 scholarship players at year’s end, so a mediocre class is going to add a while to the rebuild.
Can someone explain to me what the allure of Lane Kiffen is? Other than Layla Kiffen? I mean is he that good of a coach? Did he do anything at his previous stops before Tennessee to warrant an offer from one of THE storied programs in the nation?
I am really asking. I know next to nothing about the guy other than the stuff I skim through here on this blog.
Lane’s studied under some good guys (Pete Carroll, Jeff Tedford, Norm Chow). He had success as USC’s offensive coordinator. Other than that, I have no idea. He’s pretty young, and he’s just blazed through the career ladder of a football coach. He blew through the staff of USC, going from wide receivers coach to OC in less than 4 years, he finagled an NFL head coaching job, and then when he was absolutely terrible at that(5-15 record), he gets another big coaching job at a big time SEC school. After he goes 7-6, he lands one of the best jobs in probably all of football. I don’t get it.
85 – Perhaps that means Dan Uggla is no longer available.
…or the price just became Melky.
So Vols folks, who’s next? Bobby Petrino?
Brutal Mark Kriegel column about Pete Carroll.
http://tinyurl.com/ykat73w
I hate it because it hurts the program. Hamilton needs to go hard after Muschamp.
Tennessee has to go after Muschamp and land him or they take a big step backward.
I’m still not sure whether Kiffin would have been a good coach or not at UT. It was an uphill battle and he showed flashes of brilliance at times, but he did enough stupid things to make me have some reservations.
That said, he could not have picked a better way to do this and leave us totally and completely screwed.
1) One month before National Signing Day!!
2) Hard to tell right now, but it looks like he’s taking the entire coaching staff with him. With the exception of Kippy Brown who seems to be our interim coach because he’s staying (Kippy was only hired 2-3 weeks ago). Monte and Coach O are definitely gone.
I agree with everything Smitty has said. Hopefully the NCAA announces USC is on probation next week (but we all know they won’t let that happen).
Frak.
Yeah, Kiffin totally gutted Tennessee’s coaching staff. It’s going to be a tough rest of the offseason for Tennessee.
Rumors swirling:
1) Kiffin’s statement was about a minuet and he took no questions.
2) Muschamp is the top choice and has an offer or will get on in the next few hours.
3) The student body and the players are rioting on campus.
A “minuet”? Why not a scherzo?
the student body should be pumped. Kiffin deserves USC and every violation that they are about to receive. Why are schools stuck with contracts but coaches can leave whenever
@ 96
You win +1 internets, sir.
#98
Glad you got the joke.
Who is Kiffin’s agent? Kiffin goes to the Raiders as the youngest coach anywhere and totally bombs in addition to being called out as a liar by the owner. Somehow with that record of accomplishment he gets the job at Tennessee. He goes 7-6 at UT and makes a fool out of himself on a regular basis in addition to raising NCAA suspicions. His team also gets embarrassed by Va Tech in its bowl game.
With this impressive resume he gets the prestigious job of head coach at USC. Whatever money Kiffin’s agent is making is not enough. We need to get this guy as our GM. With his track record he could probably get us Pujols for JoJo Reyes and Manny Acosta.
Jimmy Sexton is his agent, a UT grad.
The Muschamp rumor is gaining steam.
I think Kiffin had a different agent when he was with Oakland. Whatever the case, Sexton has done an amazing con job.
Smitty, how would Muschamp settle with the fans?
anyone actually watch American Idol tonight? The first girl looked like Charlize Theron in The Monster.
Lane Kiffin “FIRED” in Tennessee
This seems perfectly reasonable to me. Oddly. And hilariously.
Say what you will about Phil Fulmer
Oh, Alex R. will.
Muschamp would sit well with most of the fans. However, the Fulmer-ites are grandstanding.
If Muschamp falls through, it will be Troy Calhoun or David Cutcliff. Either way, I think we will know by this time tomorrow.
I wonder if many of the fans know who Muschamp is, honestly. I don’t think there are any home run hires at this point in the offseason, because the job that needs to be done with recruiting is pretty much impossible. We were already low in numbers, and Fulmer and co. were awful talent evaluators, so several of the remaining upperclassmen are non-contributors anyways.
No SEC retreads, please.
Most Tennessee fans know who Muschamp is. They are pretty knowledgeable. Troy Calhoun almost got the job last year, so keep an eye on him.
UT recruiting implications from my ol’ Red & Black pal Chip Towers:
http://tinyurl.com/ydndpk7
ububba,
That is why a coach will be hired quick. There is a good class coming in, so I wouldn’t be shocked to have the new coach in place by 5:00 pm
I hear Muschamp will be announced in the morning. Not sure how accurate.
Apparently, the students at UT are rioting.
Maybe I’m just a little gun shy at this point, but wouldn’t a potential problem be that the same sort of thing could happen with Muschamp? If Georgia fans succeed in running off Mark Richt in a year or two, what’s to keep him from going there? It is his alma mater, after all. Anyway, maybe the answer to the question is that not being a complete douche bag like Lane Kiffin would be what would keep him from doing that. Regardless, I’m afraid we don’t really have a whole lot of time, and if Muschamp will come, it’s kind of a coup given he’s never gone anywhere else when he’s had ample chance. We probably are in a position now where we just have to hire him and deal with all that later, I’m afraid.
There was a riot. The “Rock” on campus was painted with some great…I mean terrible things about Judas Kiffin.
Nick,
You are right, however by hiring outside of the program, we have sold our souls.
Tennesseans haven’t been this wound up since Peyton got screwed or when we stole Texas.
I highly doubt Tennessee gets Muschamp. He’s going to be the Coach at Texas in 3 years. Why waste that to go to Tennessee?
I think that the Tennessee AD wants little time to vet someone and make sure they have connections to the area and school.
Cutcliffe will be coming back.
i thought Mac Brown’s contract was now $5m per through 2016?
This just shows how sleazy and corrupt college football is. These coaches are always talking about the need for character and commitment from 18 year old kids, but so many lack any basic integrity themselves. Kiffin is just a punk and his old man is just as bad for enabling him. And Mike Garrett, the USC AD, is a sleaze for approaching someone with an existing contract after one year on the job. Not that UT wouldn’t do the same thing if the situation was reversed. I love the way colleges build character in our youth. At least in the NFL, there is less hypocrisy.
And, Tom, I’m sorry you are upset about how I characterized your comment, but my point is, I don’t know if Wren could have done better and neither do you.
118—I don’t dispute the corrupt state of college football, but all *this* shows is what a tool Kiffin is. I love all these UT fans complaining about his character *now*.
Tennessee hired a punk, and now they are shocked he’s acting like a punk.
Chris,
Cutcliffe is probably on the list, but I bet it is down aways. I think they will go after Muschamp hard and move on quickly. Calhoun at Air Force is probably second on the list folowed by Doug Marrone and Randy Edsall.
I don’t think it will take very long. Friday at the latest.
too bad about Kiffen. he was a nice addition to the SECs’ killer lineup of “good personality” guys. right along with Spurrier, Saban, Meyer, Miles and Petrino. he’ll be missed.
You guys want Randy Sanders back?
For Tennessee, if the Muschamp gambit fails, they really need to take some time to go through the selection process for a new head coach. One mediocre recruiting class shouldn’t sink a program like UT, but a mediocre or worse coach can.
The head coach will be Tennessee’s #1 recruit in 2010. Despite the limited time until signing day, the folks in Knoxville need to recognize that.
If the UT athletics department can move quickly, good for them, but don’t go all USCe and scattershot to have someone in place in 48 hours. I mean, look what it got them..
Tommy Bowden!
If UT hires a coach that’s actually a decent human being it will be very difficult for me. Will I still be able to hate them with the same passion that I have during the Fulmer and Kiffin years? Mike Leach, Jim Leavitt and possibly John Gruden are the only guys I know who could inspire the type of vehement dislike that Kiffin generated.
119-I agree that many people’s tune on Kiffin has changed a lot now, but I hope that didn’t refer to my recent negative comments. Just Monday I mentioned how classless I thought Kiffin was especially compared to Pearl. The recent events certainly back me up and like I’ve said, I’m glad he’s gone. It may hurt short-term but the program is better off.
You want classless, apparently Orgeron was trying to poach recruits during the meeting, including 2009-10 freshmen who were already on campus to enroll early. The man’s a troll.
No, I wasn’t talking about you, Dusty. I live in Nashville and read a lot of message boards — I know a whole bunch of UT fans.
Cool, Stu.
UT fans can be an insufferable bunch (but really who can’t you say that about).
Good luck in hoops tonight, I’ll be pulling for you.
I won’t.
I’m hoping Tennessee gets a great guy who is an average SEC coach. That way I won’t despise them, but I won’t be worried about them a whole lot either. Cutcliffe would fill this role rather nicely.
Mac,
You going to the game?
Dusty,
Thanks. I actually grew up a big UT fan. My dad’s an alum. By the grace of God, I was delivered from that wretched state of being with a scholarship to VU. 🙂
according to rivals, Muschamp isnt leaving with surprises me. Why would he turn down this job in the SEC to be a HC at a big time program. WHy stay behind Brown until 2016?
Meanwhile, USC was turned down be these coaches in this order – Riley, Del Rio, Sarkisian, and Fisher
then they hire Kiffin (aka Mike Shula) – hes living off his dad’s name, hasnt really been successful anywhere, coming in right before major violations, and may not make it through them. At least Shula was a good guy
Maybe UT can borrow that list from USC and pick up calling the coaches listed behind Kiffin.
134,
Yeah, right, can’t understand why he wouldn’t want to leave that 2nd rate Texas program (what have they ever done?)…
So, Layla K can stop wearing those hideous orange dresses?
csg,
The Muschamp thing is somewhere in the range of: “He is in Knoxville today” to “He didn’t even know Tennessee had a football program.”
But from what all I have hear, he is begin talked to and there will be a coach in place Friday.
Mac,
That story about Orgeron is 100% true.
I’ll continue to post things as I hear them. I know most of you aren’t Vols fans and really want us to fail epically, but everything I have read on here from you all has been classy. Just wanted to tip my hat for that. I am sure when the coach is hired it will all be fair game again. ha ha ha
Tennessee just lost Willis, a **** DT from Byrnes HS in SC (home of Marcus Lattimore, who was also considering UT…the #1 RB in this class), to UNC.
Miller, his teammate, another **** DE, is also reconsidering and might end up at UNC.
Lattimore was also considering UT, and now has changed HIS mind and will take an official to UNC.
leaving UT is the best thing Kiffen could have done for UNC’s class this year.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Ted Meline (who also visited UNC) and Markeith Ambles (who also visited) open things up again.
Kiffen has just set back the UT program for 3 years, easy.
Two sources at InsideTexas.com are saying that Muschamp said no to Tennessee today.
Ambles will end up at Southern Cal or LSU. And if Miller leaves, it won’t be for UNC, it will be for South Carolina. Lattimore was never seriously considering UT and won’t end up at UNC, either.
“PHW -#134,
Yeah, right, can’t understand why he wouldn’t want to leave that 2nd rate Texas program (what have they ever done?)…”
so you would rather make $600-700K being a DC at Texas than make $2-2.5 or more possibly to be a HC in UT? really?
Calling UT commits on UT-provided cellphones on UT grounds to persuade them to not go to UT.
Wow. Just wow.
Surely, that’s actionable, isn’t it?
Sometimes I wish God was still in the thunderbolt business …
(But then I look at myself … )
FWIW, I think Muschamp makes $900K already.
Maybe he’s happy there, and Austin is a pretty great place to live.
I wonder what Robert thinks about these new hires. I know some U$C fans who aren’t very pleased with this move by Garrett.
#144- yeah he may, but I thought he’s stated that he’s wanted to become a head coach. Why wait till 2016, when this is a pretty solid opportunity?
maybe he’s is happy though. I would say that most DC coords no matter where they are would love the opportunity to get a big time HC job
Muschamp is not leaving Texas. His actual salary this year was 900K and it’s not beyond the realm of possibility that he gets another raise. He has an excellent relationship with Mack Brown and the big money boosters at Texas. He is getting virtually every defensive recruit he wants. His wife loves Austin. He has been promised the head coaching job. How far away is that? Nobody knows but I’d bet that Mack Brown has given him some indication and he appears okay with it.
Sorry if this was already posted. It’s and interesting read about Kiffin’s refusal to embrace UT traditions.
http://ncaafootball.fanhouse.com/2010/01/12/volunteer-sources-say-kiffin-never-embraced-tennessee/
I can honestly say that I’m not surprised by anything dirty Orgeron is doing. This is the same guy that while here tried to recruit a transfer from Tulane right after Katrina.
On Ambles, he’s said he’s interested in USC and he’s got a visit scheduled for next weekend in Oxford.
Leach offered UT job?
http://thesportstimesnetwork.blogspot.com/2010/01/breaking-news-ut-offers-mike-leach-troy.html
As a UT fan, I think it’s a pretty awful coaching opportunity at this point. I could go on and on, but suffice to say that the last three recruiting classes plus this coming one are going to leave us with a short roster with several holes in it. If this recruiting class bottoms out, it hurts the new coach for 4 years, and if there’s attrition from Kiffin’s lone class, that sticks around for 3.
There won’t be any momentum from next year’s team, either. 7-6 last year, minus Berry, Hardesty, and second half Crompton. Likely new offensive and defensive systems. .500 would be an achievement. No SEC championships since 1998, when recruits were 6. No Top 10 finishes since 2001.
I think it takes 2 coaches minimum, especially since anyone smart/good enough to potentially resurrect the program at this point will also be smart enough to stay away.
Ned Yost hired by KC to be special adviser.
so, russell branyan is the latest head scratcher. he had a career year with 31 homers and an 867 ops and “expects” to have a major league contract. a major league contract should be a no-brainer for this guy.
No way it is Leach.
The Muschamp rumor almost died, now the big rumor is that they are negotiating a sixth year on the deal and there might be an announcement some time late today or early tomorrow.
I really think it is going to happen. I am positive that it isn’t dead yet.
Saying Tennessee gets Muschamp. Do they really want to go through this again when Mack Brown retires?
@153… wasn’t he once a Brave, didn’t make it out of ST if I recall correctly?
sorry double post and wrong threat… but just saw a CNN interview with the president of haiti wandering around the port-au-prince airport because he has no place to stay or sleep…
I’m guessing the buyout this time will be a little more than $800,000. Also, I was worried about this last night, too…I even posted about it (although it was Georgia I was worried about, not Texas), but I’ve come to the conclusion that at some point you have to accept that not everybody’s as big a jackass as Lane Kiffin. And if Mack Brown retires in six years and Muschamp wants to go back to Texas, well, it will have been six years. I don’t think we really could say much of anything. There’s a difference between six years and one…no coach is really staying around a program for 20 years these days, anyway.
From what I hear Muschamp contract is coming down to two things:
1) A sixth year
2) A huge buy out if he bolts for UGA, Auburn or Texas.
I’ve been thinking about Branyan, too. Here’s what I wrote today.
Why does UT think they can get Muschamp when Auburn couldn’t?
Bethany,
Mack Brown just signed an extension. Muschamp might be had. This rumor was almost dead today, but then it started getting hot fast.
Some Texas people are starting to worry and their biggest rumor of support is Muschamp has been calling recruits all day to tell them he is staying. However, it is a dead period and he can’t do that. On top of things, he hasn’t released anything, nor has Texas.
He has discussed the job with Tennessee today, that is a fact.
Well congrats if you can land him, I hope he’s as good a head coach as he is a defensive coordinator.
Lowder might have something to do with that if he’s still around. Who knows, though.
What’s funny is that Tim Tebow and Lane Kiffin have the same agent. Is there a disconnect there?
Resop signed minor league deal with ATL and will be a spring invite per DOB.
There’s your left fielder.
Poser!
Word out of Austin is that Muschamp is mulling a 5 year/$18 million deal to be the coach at Tennessee.
The news about Resop will excite Braves’ fans everywhere….
@168
That sounds close to what is being batted around here.
Kiffin just lied about Orgeron calling recruits. His douche bag level is at an all time high and the press is killing him.
It is probably best that he never show his face here again
Smitty, for what it’s worth, Ross Lucksinger of InsideTexas.com is tweeting that Muschamp was in Knoxville this afternoon but that he turned the Vols down and that they are contacting recruits and telling them that.
http://twitter.com/RossLucksinger
No way he was in Knxoville. Hamilton wouldn’t bring him there to interview, that would be a total blunder.
I think it is a dead period and they can’t contact recruits.
This just in from Volneck.com… Muschamp turns down UT and accepts offer to become President of Haiti.. less disastrous situation, he says.. Developing..
right now I dont believe any recruits can be contacted. Its suppose to be a dead period, so if anyone is getting contacted its probably a violation
Speaking of Haiti, now is a really good time to donate to the Red Cross, UNICEF, Doctors Without Borders, Action Against Hunger or Mercy Corps. They are all very active in Haiti and could use the help in this horrific situation.
Muschamp released a statement that he’s staying at Texas.
http://collegesportsblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2010/01/muschamp-says-hes-staying-at-texas.html
Interesting that no one has mentioned how Tuberville has to be regretting going to the abyss that is Lubbock. He would be a front runner if he was still available. I know he would rather be in the SEC than west Texas. I recently moved to OKC from Nashville and I still haven’t recovered from the landscape shock.
Mac, did you go to the game? Sure was ugly, but I’ll take a win any way I can get it when my team can’t hit free throws or layups!
I continue to love Anthony Grant, BTW.
Stu
care to bet that Miller won’t be at UNC?
Smitty
it’s not a dead period until 24 hours BEFORE NSD.
it’s NOT a dead period. Muschamp can call any recruit.
Smitty #138–For what it is worth, I have really enjoyed your posts. As someone who lived in Tennessee for nearly 12 years and I know how hard that this is those who love the Vols.
With respect to Kiffin, I cannot help but compare him (especially when reflecting on Rob Cope’s comment #88) to Louis Mountbatten (also known as Lord Mountbatten)–who was another ‘annoited one’. No matter how many times he screwed up (and he did)or how profoundly, the British establishment treated him different from other favored mortals and simply kept promoting him. For Kiffin’s sake I hope the parallel ends there, because, Montbatten’s wife, Edwina, had a full range of extracurricular activities–whereas we know at this point that Layla Kiffin simply makes for nice Google Image searches.
Finally, I have really enjoyed the coverage of this event from those who contribute to Braves Journal. This kind of thread is probably not available anywhere else. Thanks again, Mac for hosting this site and thanks to all who have added to this thread….
Go ‘Dores!
Nice to eke one out on the road tonight.
Who we got next?
Resop signed minor league deal with ATL and will be a spring invite per DOB.
They brought Poser back, why?
Greetings from Anaheim…
Big fan of Doctors w/ o Borders. Thnx, url.
Was Mountbatten the one the IRA blew up?
Caught the Kiffin presser on the flight. Lyin’ like a rug…
Yes–Mountbatten was killed in 1979 by the IRA.
Teddy Pendergrass dies at 59 | EW.com.
Ok I did some reading on Kiffen (how could you not). I get it now. To get Monty and whoever Orgeron is and Layla (yes I am being a pig) you have to take Lane. All you Tennessee fans out there, isn’t this really addition through subtraction?
Stephen – wow what a parallel. Lane Kiffen = Lord Louis Mountbatten, First Sea Lord, last Viceroy of India, supreme commander of the South East Asia theatre of operations in WW2.
@182
Thanks
@188
It is kind of an addition by subtraction, but it really hurts our recruiting class (timing wise) if he had left in December, not as bad. Now it is going to be hard to find a good coach and there is a rush to hire one. So that opens up the possibility of making a bad hire.
Now that Muschamp has backed out, it is really up in the air. Troy Calhoun of Air Force is probably the front runner. He was second choice last year. I think in the long term he would be the best choice, but it isn’t a sexy name that would save very much of this class. He wouldn’t run the option here, by the way.
So that’s what’s going on up here. I was surprised Muschamp backed out.
Beltran out for much of the first month with knee surgery recovery… I’m beginning to feel bad for the Mets… I wonder if Minaya will now overpay for Damon and make Francoeur the 4th outfielder when Beltran comes back?
New post.