64 thoughts on “Some people really love Francoeur game thread: July 3, Phillies at Braves”

  1. DOB’s got a new blog post up, and it’s a good one. Basically mirrors my thoughts on the Frenchy situation and how it’s gotten to this point.

    I was encouraged by this:

    “T.P. told me last night that they’re at the point now of breaking down Francoeur’s swing, getting him to do some entirely different things than he’s done in the past, and that this is stuff he has to get comfortable with outside of the games, not try to do while he’s up there facing major league pitchers.”

    I mean, this is what needs to be done. Kid’s still got crazy power and is a very athletic guy, and if he can get a nice, compact swing, he can still be the star everyone thought he could be (or at least, you know, a solid big leaguer). Best thing that could happen would be a stubbed toe that could be used to DL him and give him a long rehab assignment without the stigma of being sent down.

  2. At one point I loved Francoeur. I think it started to go downhill a few weeks after he hit the GW grand slam against the Natspos a few years ago

  3. I’ve never particularly been a big fan, but I certainly hope he gets things right. However, my one-year-old son has a Francoeur jersey (wife and mother-in-law found it at a dept store in Richmond as a Christmas gift, they didn’t have any others) and so I hope he can come around so the picture or two we have of the little guy in the jersey don’t look too ridiculous. heh heh.

  4. From the last thread:

    Awww, Carl Crawford corner outfielder vs. former corner outfielder KJ. The comparison in not one I was looking for. I was just stating it seems that Crawford has been around for a long time. Such similar numbers until you look at the stolen base totals..9, 58, 59, 46, 58, 50, and 21 in ‘08 so far for Crawford. Not bad.

    Tony, you missed my point. Even with Crawford’s steals, the players are of roughly equal offensive value. KJ plays a much tougher defensive position–a position at which it is much harder to find that sort of offensive production than it is in left field.

    Kelly Johnson is a more valuable player than Carl Crawford.

  5. Jair’s Song (to the tune of “Africa” by Toto)


    Hear we’ve got a young pitcher tonight
    But he’s only fourth in pecking order of our rotation
    Mets coming in 12:30 flight
    They’re bringing stars who lift the spirits of the enemy Nation
    I stopped a scalper along the way
    Hoping to find some tickets way down close so he could sell me these
    He turned to me as if to say “Hurry boy, Jair’s pitching here for you”

    Gonna take a lot to try and trade for you
    That’s nothing that our former star shortstop could not do
    I guess our Ace comes from Curacao
    Gonna take some time to win the games we never would have (oooh-ooh)

    Opposing batters cry out in the night
    As they grow restless taking another strike from Jurrjens at the knees
    I know that I must cheer tonight
    Sure as Jurrjens’ mojo rises like Olympus above the National League
    I see him pitch one deep inside, thankfully the Tigers were so dumb

    Gonna take a lot to try and trade for you
    That’s nothing that our former star shortstop could not do
    I guess our Ace comes from Curacao
    Gonna take some time to win the games we never would have (oooh-ooh)

    (Instrumental Break)

    Hurry boys, Jair’s pitching for you too!

    Gonna take a lot to try and trade for you
    That’s nothing that our former star shortstop could not do
    I guess our Ace comes from Curacao
    I guess our Ace comes from Curacao (I guess our Ace!)
    I guess our Ace comes from Curacao (ahh, it’s Smoltz again!)
    I guess our Ace comes from Curacao
    I guess our Ace comes from Curacao (he’s gonna win again!)
    Gonna take some time to win the games we never would have (oooh-ooh)

  6. It’s true! Carl Crawford just isn’t all that great. :-/

    Maybe if he was playing CF, but as a LF? Na, not really.

    Note: he’s certainly better than either of OUR corner OFs, but remember: the 2008 Braves OF is pretty bad.

  7. My apologies to Carl Crawford for bring up that you are only 26 y/o in the same post I mentioned the Great Kelly Johnson. Now you will be eternally bashed.

  8. From the Department of Jayson Stark Is An Idiot:

    So remember, friends, there’s no assurance that trading for a C.C. Sabathia is going to give your team any better chance of winning the World Series than trading for, say, Tim Redding. And that’s a fact.


  9. The only team CC couldn’t help is the Braves b/c we have a single A rightfielder. An American Legion back-up catcher. A not ready for primetime 1st baseman. A manager who is determine to watch one of his relievers’ arm literally fall off in live action. A great 3rd baseman who is made of glass. A #1 pitcher who is no longer a #1. Nope he couldn’t help this squad.

    I just thought about it something. It’s the Mike Gonzalez curse. What is the Braves record since he came back?

  10. I am not sure we can keep saying this stuff about our first baseman with a straight face. Sure, he was a problem early on, but it looks like he has come around.

    Mark Teixeira (Last 10 games)
    31 AB, .355 BA, .524 OBP, 1.000 SLG, 1.524 OPS.
    6 HR, 9 R, 13 RBI, 11 BB, 6 Ks.

  11. I was in the midst of a long post about just how valuable KJ is, esp. relative to ther 2B in baseball before I accidently pressed a wrong key, so I’ll shorten this one.

    The bottom line is this: 1) Is the Braves front office even aware of how valuable KJ is? Why is he not more a part of the marketing strategy?

    2) How many other 2B in baseball are better than Kelly? Not many: I can name Chase Utley, Orlando Hudson, Ian Kinsler, Brian Roberts, Placido Polanco, maybe Aaron Hill. However, most of those guys are either around or over 30 years old. KJ is 26.

    You can argue guys like Uggla and Brandon Phillips are better (due to power) but they both have serious holes in the swings and aren’t nearly the OBP guys that KJ is and can be. Other guys like Dustin Pedroia, Robinson Cano, Rickie Weeks, etc. hae better “name recognition” (thanks to the biased media), but in the end…KJ is a better player.

    Sure his defense leaves a little bit to be desired, but his ability to hit, given our poor OF production, only increases his value, plus he can hit at about any spot in the order. Would you rather have the likes of Prado out their as the everyday 2B, defensively?

    KJ has to be in the LR plans.

  12. Stu, did you read that whole article? If you take him out of context, sure, he sounds like an idiot. But his point was that making a big deadline deal doesn’t mean you’re gonna put your team over the hump. He even used the Teixera deal as an example, and Shuerholz even agreed. His idea is that you can land a big name player like Teixera or Sabathia or whoever, and it’s not going to guarantee you October.

    In fact, just adding spare part guys like Tim Redding is sometimes what you need to do, because you’re not giving up a whole lot. Last October, we were “winners” for getting Teixera, and really, where has it gotten us? It might be the same thing for Sabathia. A team may take one step forward and two steps back.

  13. Is choking contagious?

    Can they do a team-wide Heimlich?

    Seriously, have you ever seen so many pretty good hitters turn into puscatores in the clutch in your life? (Well, yeah, there’s last year and the year before that …)

  14. hankonly – That’s been exactly our problem.

    I still feel that we will have starting pitching issues before all is said and done.

  15. Rob, the thing is, saying that Sabathia is no guarantee for the playoffs is one thing. Saying that Sabathia doesn’t improve your chances any more than Tim Redding is another. He’s arguing that, because of a lot of other crappy pitchers who caught fire in October, you shouldn’t bother to trade for a good pitcher.

    This is what’s known as a poor argument.

  16. I would agree that he’s overstated himself by saying that you don’t have a better chance with CC Sabathia over Tim Redding, but he has a point that you can spend a boatload on Sabathia, he can have a rough 10-start stretch, and you’re no better than when you started. Then after you gave up 3-4 prospects, you’ve really hurt yourself.

    He also makes the good point reinforced by Dan O’Dowd that you don’t have to make a deal at the deadline just for the sake of making a deal. What ever happened to making a deal in May or June? I wanna say earlier this decade there were more teams that traded their pieces earlier in the year. I guess more teams think they’re in the race so much that they’re not willing to sell off (like us?).

  17. With all due respect to KJ…what is there to market? He’s a .270 to .280 who may hit 15 homers. On base a bunch, but can’t steal. He’s not a great defensive 2nd baseman. Unfortunately not really much to market. He’s just a solid ballplayer.

  18. JF”K”…
    I have to admit I still like him and hold out hope that he’ll get his act together but right now I’m an advocate for a trip to Richmond. Maybe some humility and harsh will reality will help.

    Last night was painful to watch. I felt like Andruw Jones was wearing his best Frenchy disguise with all the strikeouts.

    I like fan favorite players so I’m not gonna bash Francoeur. I just don’t know what it will take.

  19. Speaking of Kelly Johnson, he’s NOT in the lineup tonight.

    Oh but Francoeur is in there tonight.

    I’m actually encouraged by the Bowman article. It shows the Braves have at least seriously entertained the idea of demoting Francoeur, something I didn’t think they had done. My sense of it from the article is the Braves are waiting till they escape the home fans (go on the road) and then they’ll send Francoeur to Richmond.

  20. Rob,
    Yes, I read the entire article. He does make some valid points, but the one I highlighted is utterly illogical and, yes, idiotic. He calls something a fact which is patently untrue–doesn’t get much more idiotic than that, IMO.

  21. Also, not that I don’t think it will come to a demotion, but wouldn’t it make sense to bench Francoeur for a while and then demote if a little rest does not help?

  22. Yeah it’s Prado. Lillibridge down, Prado activated. Infante in left, Blanco in center and Kotsay and Johnson on the bench tonight.

    Kelly Johnson is hitting .322 against lefties this season whereas Francoeur has hit .215 against left handers this season.

  23. Kotsay is also not in the lineup.

    Cf Blanco
    Ss Escobar
    3b Chipper
    1b Teixiera
    Lf Infante
    C McCann
    Rf OUT(S)
    2b Prado
    P Jurrjens

  24. Well, ok, Mac, but where’s Francoeur going to play? Gotta get him in the lineup somewhere.

  25. Not too bad, I guess. Kotsay is going to need a break here and there and KJ is 1-for-11 against Hamels.

  26. Maybe today is the day Francoeur turns it around. He would be hard pressed to do worse than yesterday’s 3Ks and a GDP w/ the bases loaded, and he has been useless in his career against Hamels, and pretty much everyone who pays attention has given up on him, plus he sucks enough right now that a single hit today would be a big suprise. This might be the least likely game of the season for him to do anything right – its like the perfect storm working against him that he might hit a couple HR just to mess with us.

  27. So I guess all this pre-game stuff is a way for the nonfan, or casual fan, to enjoy the broadcast more? Is there a purpose to it?

  28. I don’t know what kind of love is! Eros, Ludus, Storge, Mania, Pragma and Agape? Why do you think some people love Francoeur? Because he is a Gorgian? Local boy? Some people are probably Francoeur’s high school alumni? I’ll pass Stupid Localism.
    I think A pro should demonstrate their abilities in their field. Francoeur didn’t show anything yet. Where on earth does the belief for Francoeur come from? I can’t get it, though. Generally I do try not to do a snap judgment. Also I don’t have a preconceived idea because of Seeing is Believing. But I’m convinced I was right about Francoeur.
    Atlanta Braves ain’t a charitable organization. Don’t say tomorrow. We don’t have Tomorrow if we don’t fix it when is found the fatal consequences. Sometimes need not cheap sympathy but harsh and objective criticism for maturity. He is not a good player if he is afraid of that.

  29. At 44: Very good point. I also enjoyed Chip saying other batters have gone through “gigantic slumps:” DiMaggio, Jackson, and now, Francoeur.

  30. Time for Terry Pendleton to show why he has a job with the remodelling of Francoeur’s swing.

    Roger McDowell took his fair share of stick his first two years, but now has the rotation going very well.

    Time for Terry to do the same.

  31. Frankenstein and Prado can’t even move the runners… just a big black hole in the line-up.

    I think it might be time to crown Francoeur the new Vortex of Suck.

  32. The Braves starting pitchers might be going on strike soon to protest this muck.

  33. Someone up the thread said solid ballplayers win championships. Are you freaking kidding me? Stars win championships.

    Solid ballplayers win half their games. Stars win 2/3.

  34. You need solid players too. Nobody has a team full of stars — you can’t afford it even if you could assemble one. In many cases, the difference between a championship isn’t the lack of stars, it’s surrounding those stars with poor players.

  35. No offense to you Mac, but we’re not going to win many championships if Kelly Johnson is our best player relative to his position on our roster. I overstated last night. He’s a good player and a good hitter, but not a great one. He’s a .285 hitter, not a .330 one. He’s probably not as bad defensively as his reputation not withstanding that popup which can happen to anyone.

  36. its good to know that everyone, not only Frenchy, didnt show up for the biggest series of the season at home. This team deserves nothing more than to be dismantled. I would start with Bobby and work the way down from there

  37. But he’s not. Chipper and McCann are the best players at their respective positions in the league, McCann the best in baseball (this year and two years ago, anyway). KJ and Escobar aren’t bad as third/fourth wheels. The problem is the horrible players, not the good ones.

  38. Phillip,

    We actually had posters up until a couple days ago saying that we’re 1 or 2 players away. We’re about 6-8 players and pitchers away from competing and a roster makeover away from the World Series.

  39. the teams problem is a lack of power and timely hitting, also poor managing should be included

  40. Ariz scored 6 in the 9th against Mil to win 6-5 today. Mil didnt even get an out in the inning. Maybe we can do the same….oh wait, we suck

  41. Mac,

    You’re right I was forgetting McCann who IMO is now our best player. Chipper’s too fragile to really be considered that.

    And I agree with you that it’s the bottom half of our roster that’s killing us, not the top, although I would disagree that our top end is good enough to truly compete for championships anyway.

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