ESPN – Braves vs. Cubs – Box Score – June 10, 2008
The Good: Well, it stared off great! In the first, Escobar and Kelly both reached base in front of Jenny Francoeur, who batted third because Bobby let Jenny’s dad pick the batting order. After watching Jenny and Tex strike out ( at least the didn’t hit into a double play) Ormeg Norfante (Norton) hit a three run shot to give the Braves an early lead.
The Bad: Tom Glavine. [He’s going back on the DL – Mac] He just didn’t have it tonight. He went three unproductive innings before he had to leave the game with an elbow strain and will miss his next start. He gave up four runs, but it could have been much worse. The thing is; the game should have been tied when he left. Norfante (Infante) had a leadoff triple in the top of the second, but was somehow stranded there.
The Ugly: The Braves awoke from hibernation mode in the eighth by working the count. At least that is what Joe Simpson called it. I have no idea what this “working the count” thing means. That would be stupid baseball! The best thing to do is swing for the fence every time because that is our team philosophy! After the Braves managed to get within a run, Acosta promptly imploded (or did his normal thing, however you want to view it) and gave up four runs, which none were earned because Acosta can’t catch. Jenny hit into a double play to end it.
This was another terrible showing. I am not sure this ball club could tread water in the International League (where half the team belongs,) much less the Major F’ing Leagues. Our MVP tonight was Norfante, ugh!
The news gets better as Carlos Zambrano has been moved up a day to pitch Thursday. We better win tomorrow.
I hope Acosta leaves the clubhouse early again and Bobby gives him the boot back to AAA
Smoltz is hurt, Glavine is hurt, the only logical thing to do is to trade the farm for Maddux so he can come back and get hurt too.
Mac,
I sent you the recap. I was going to rant in it, but I don’t have the stomach
Trade Tex, Trade Hudson, Trade anyone over the age of 28 for anything and everything you can get for them. Do it Frank Wren. I’d actually want to come to a game more if you did, not less. Who wants to see this pig slop for 1-3 more years?
Via email? I haven’t gotten it.
I resent it
Glavine to the DL…Might as well call Morton up, this team doesn’t seem to be going anywhere this year…at least we’ll have 3 good young arms in the rotation (and Hudson)
http://tinyurl.com/6gepnw
I am so disgusted. My mind is completely irrational right now, and I am thinking the team can get pretty good return if we package Tex and Frenchy together in a deal.
I can’t believe it, this team has been completely lost since Kotsay got hurt…Kotsay?!
When will Kotsay be back?
Smitty, does it matter?
Speaking of Kotsay, if he can get healthy he might fetch something in a deal.
Sure Glavine hasn’t worked out but it’s not like we gave the Mets our first round pick for the privledge or anything…
List of tradable guys who have a contract up at the end of the year:
Teixiera
Kotsay
When does Ohman’s deal run out?
Yeah, maybe we could get a promising young pitcher for Kotsay.
if Kotsay can get healthy I would love to keep the guy, thats a big if though. Who would’ve thought that this team would flop like the last two. I guess losing Smoltz, Kotsay, Glavine twice, Hampton, Soriano, and Moylan had finally taken its toll on the other guys, Too bad Frenchy, Tex, Bobby, Resop, Miller, Blanco, Gotay, and Acosta cant do their jobs and people like Stockman and Pena cant keep theirs
Trade anyone not named Escobar, McCann or Jurrjens and get multiple MLB level players and prospects for them. Take our lumps next year and build toward 2010.
This just in:
Kobe Bryant is a whinner
Where are we in the wild card?
Hey, we could do that!
I still think the Glavine signing is absolutely the right move for reasons beyond the draft picks and salary. We were all very excited about this team coming into spring training. Things have just gone very wrong since the start of the season such as all the one-run loss, home-road split, injury to Smoltz, Sori, Moylan, etc.
I have no confidence that this team will be able to turn around in the second half. Either we sell the farm again to go for it or we reload. Standing still will be the worst thing Wren can do.
Nevertheless, I do not expect any significant roster actions until July…
Look I’m not going to put the blame on anybody regarding the injuries of Diaz, Prado and Moylan (even though he was used pretty heavily last year). When you have two 40 + year olds along with Hampton in your rotation, a center fielder with a history of back problems who hurts his back, and and closer with a history of elbow problems who hurts his elbow, and your team is decimated by injuries, I don’t think you can really complain, or be surprised.
I have officially had it up to here with Jeff Francoeur. Send him to Richmond, release him, trade him…hell, sit him on the bench and never play him for all I care, but if I’m the manager of this team, I do not allow that useless piece of donkey shit on the field again until he can convince me that he’s gotten it through his fortified cement skull that it is not OK to swing at a 2-0 slider in the other fucking batter’s box with two men on and when down by five runs…EVER!!!!
The man is not an asset to this team and at this rate never will be, at least not this year. So send the useless fucker to Richmond so that maybe we can salvage something out of this worthless turd that is in severe danger of ruining the future of this franchise!!! I am absolutely 100 percent serious on this. Send him to Richmond for the rest of the year!!!
That is all. I will now go take a Valium.
csg,
for all that is holy despite the fact that he’s had a good 1/4 season why would you want to keep Kotsay. He’s 35 years old. There is NO upside at all. This season is a mirage and even if it isn’t he won’t be doing it when this team is actually good again.
Please folks, divorce yourselves from these guys. We have 1 legitimate MLB superstar and he’s 36 years old.
McCann can be but he’s not there yet, but almost.
If we do fall out of it, Wren would be insane not to trade Teixiera. He could get something out of Kotsay too.
We are also 6.5 in the wild card. All the teams are beatable, if we could just fucking win
McCann may not be a superstar, but he’s the best catcher in baseball.
Nick,
I’m LMAO right now in Jacksonville, FL at your post. That is of epic proportions. That’s gold, Jerry.
Chief, we shouldn’t trade everybody. Just the ones with contracts up at the end of the year.
Catchers by RC/27. See?
Mac, are you suggesting we should send Frenchy to Class A like Dontrelle or you are saying we can trade for Dontrelle?
I’m saying we should send Francoeur to Myrtle Beach, or possibly Rome. Or trade him for Dontrelle. Or have him shot.
Dontrelle probably needs TJ surgery or something. Hell, trade Francoeur for him anyway.
I enter one vote for having him shot.
New poll.
Our #1 starter is out for the year. Our #3 guy missed a couple starts earlier & he’ll miss some more.
Our regular closer has been hurt. Our setup guy hasn’t pitched. Our never-was #5 starter never did.
Our LF is out. Our CF is out. The team is 0-7 when our .420-hitting 3B doesn’t play.
Our C is doing what he does. Our 2B hasn’t been amazing, but he’s been alright. Our SS has been mostly good. Our 1B has been somewhat disappointing. Our RF has regressed. The injury replacements have played like the spare parts they are—they’re not all supposed to play at the same time. The bullpen & its management has been…confusing.
This is not a recipe for success.
But anyone who doesn’t take into account the injuries when considering this team’s fortunes isn’t paying attention. This is the gamble we took & it’s not working out. Them’s the breaks.
Smitty, thanks for the recap.
Well said ububba, but it’s also a valid point that the chance of everybody being healthy is extremely low to begin with.
BTW, yes, thanks Smitty for the recap. You’ve captured, I think, everyone’s frustrations.
And I forgot to mention that, through all our annoyances & troubles, somehow we’re still better than the Mets. Small thing, but not completely inconsequential.
After a little bit of studying, our trading chips appear to be Teixiera, Ohman, and Kotsay.
In all seriousness and with all levelheadedness, I really do think we should send Francoeur back to the minors for the rest of the year. That wasn’t a joke. Sign a crappy free agent OF or trade for a less crappy one to fill-in…whatever. But if he doesn’t get this fixed, his career is toast. And so are we if we’re stupid enough to sign him to a long-term contract. This is more than just a slump, folks. It seems to be a fundamental lack of understanding of the game of baseball.
The golden boy needs a wake up call. He needs to realize he is not as golden as he thinks he is.
kc,
Relative health is the gamble we took & we came up snake eyes.
Coming into this season, I was loathe to even bring up the idea of Smoltz’s health—it was too real, too scary. Chipper, too.
But…this is an amazing amount of injuries. Everyone who had any injury history at all, it seems, has gone down and guys who didn’t went down as well. (Yes, Glavine is older, but he’d never been on the DL, not even when he got his teeth knocked out in that taxi.)
I’d be curious to know how many teams could survive the dinks & dings we’ve taken. I’d bet zero.
When it comes to Francoeur, the Braves are victims of their own marketing. Here he was when he first came up, a local boy with an engaging personality, who was tearing the cover off of the ball. Of course, anyone with baseball savvy could see what was likely to come when the league figured him out. That didn’t stop the marketing department though. They plastered him all over their advertising, and some local businesses followed suit, putting him in their commercials. He was anointed as the future face of the franchise by the TV announcers. Now they’re stuck with the albatross around their neck. He’s an average hitter with a career OPS+ of 99.
The fact of the matter is that this is an organization that is completing the slide into mediocrity. It began when Ted Turner lost control of the club. For a while there a certain organizational momentum kept them going, but that has just about played itself out. I don’t think we’ll be seeing any more divisional titles for a long time unless Liberty Media decides to sell the club to someone who is willing to spend what it will take to remake the organization from top to bottom.
I was at the game tonight. Some highlights for me, in order of my least favorite to most favorite:
5. I actually tried to call every Francoeur at bat…and I was 1 for 4. I correctly said he’d strike out on 3 pitches in the first. Like an idiot, I thought he’d hit a meaningless 9th inning homerun, but of course he hit into a DP. Duh
4. The guy sitting in front of me actually asked me, “who is the Braves regular LF? I’ve never heard of this Norton guy”. Yeah, me either
3. People randomly shouting “Braves suck!” as I walked up Clark St. towards the field. I don’t know why, but this always bothers me more than it should. I always feel obligated to stop and say, “really dude? ‘-insert opposition here- sucks’ is the best you can do? Very sophisticated trash talk. Moron”
2. Explaining to my cubs fan friend that she may be witnessing a hall of famer’s last appearance in Wrigley…and that she should “savor the moment” or something. Then Glavine proceeds to crap the bed (or maybe he f’d up his elbow?). Way to make me look good in front of the ladies Tommy. Worst wingman ever
1. I’ve lived in Chicago for 4 years, and I’ve NEVER heard anything like this before. On my way out of the park, some moronic idiot (probably from Northbrook) shouted in my face “yeah baby! Go Cubs! ’03 bitch! ’03!” Which of course is a reference to the ’03 playoffs when the Cubs beat the Braves in 5 games. Fair enough…but really? I mean, REALLY? Cubs fans are going to bring THAT up? I simply replied, “yeah…what what happened the next series? I stopped paying attention!”
Tonight sucked. (except for that last incident…which kinda made the $65 tickets worth it)
Chief, do you live in Jacksonville?
I’m not for anyone being shot, even hypothetically, but our FoF needs to either sit for more than one game, or be sent to the minors for a two week stretch or so. I think a few bumpy bus rides could finally jar something loose in that diamond hard head.
Overall though, something even more dramatic needs to be done for the whole team. Some sort of real shake up and my best suggestion would be to replace Pendleton, eventhough it won’t happen, because he’s the heir apparent to knucklhead Booby.
Let’s hope that Schafer isn’t rushed to the bigs now and screwed up forever.
quazz66,
When visiting enemy territory & confronted with something like moronic fans living in momentary glory, I almost always ignore them.
Generally, the worst thing you can do to someone who’s acting like a child is to pretend they don’t exist. Works with Mets fans, anyway.
However, if you must, absolutely must fire back at a Cubs fan, there’s a treasure trove of ammo.
Example:
Cubs fan: “Yeaah, ’03, baby!”
Braves fan: “You’re kidding, right? The last time you guys won anything big Teddy Roosevelt was president.”
There’s the small matter of our sweep of the Cubs in ’98, but that was just a blip in our run.
What’s more amusing: You can almost count the Cubs’ post-WW2 post-seasons on one hand—’45, ’84, ’89, ’98, ’03 & ’07.
The ’03 NLDS is the only post-season series of any kind they’ve won since 1908. Yippee.
A bad night for the Braves–but a lively night for Braves Journal….
Look this team is not as bad as it looks, because, yes, the injuries have to be factored in.
However, those of us who wanted another starter foresaw the possibility that a rotation made up of Smoltz, Glavine, Hudson, Hampton and James might run into injury problems.
It was not such a stretch to imagine that Kotsay’s back problem would flare up; nor was it hard to see that Soriano might develop arm problems.
At the same time, it was not hard to foresee that Frenchy might not get better and that we would not have anything to trade with (because we gave up our best trading chips to bring in Mighty Tex) if things went badly.
Most of us thought that Brandon Jones might be able to make a good contribution and that Tex would at least have a very strong year. Wrong on both accounts.
Happily enough, at least I did not anticipate Chipper’s monster performance.
All of that said, I am not surprised that this team now sucks and, yes, we should do something about Frenchy (Danville?) and I would not hesitate to trade Tex if we could get anything decent for him.
Basically, the Braves need to accept the fact that the glory days are a thing of the past and start rebuilding. My sympathies are with Chief Nocahoma (from the previous thread) and Nick’s effusive post.
Unfortunately, I think that the Braves will continue to trade away better futures for mediocre presents (like the diastrous trade for Tex) because they will mistakenly believe that they are competitive when they are not….
Go Chipper!!!
#23, I know it’s hard to believe, but Kotsay’s just 32.
Well when you factor in Kotsay’s chronic back problems he’s more like 42.
Trade Tex for Prospex.
AAR, but his back is more like 60…
It’s bleak, fellas. Real bleak.
The question I have regarding trading Teixeira is what kind of value we can get for a half season rental. Other teams know he’s a Boras client and will hit the market. Would the potential draft picks be of better value than any prospects we would receive?
Salty has a 126 OPS+. Feliz is dominating A-ball and rising up prospect lists. Not to mention Andrus and Harrison.
Boy oh boy, that trade is gonna hurt real bad in 2-3 years.
It will be funny if the M’s turn around and trade Bedard away just few months after giving up all those prospects and giving him the fat contract.
In many ways I would rather have the draft picks–but given the season, I am increasingly confident that the Braves will have a high pick next year anyway.
That said, I do not think that we can reasonably trade Tex for much unless it is to an AL East team which might then try to sign him to a long term contract.
I would love to see the Braves trade him to the O’s for Billy Rowell (even if Rowell is not off to a good start) or some other elite prospect, but I doubt it will happen as I don’t think they would go for it.
If we hang on to Tex, we must not overpay to re-sign him. I expect that he will be a productive player (better that Will Clark for example) for many years, but I would not want to spend so much to keep him that we cannot rebuild the rotation….
Jeremy, A-ball means nothing, Andrus still doesn’t hit for power which scouts are hoping he would develop, harrison is not progressing well in AAA. Salty is Salty. It was a right deal at that time, and I still think it’s a right deal.
Btw, we got a supplementary first round pick because of Mahay. So, don’t forget about that.
“I’d be curious to know how many teams could survive the dinks & dings we’ve taken. I’d bet zero.”
Well that’s because no other team was reliant upon the types of gambles at extremely crucial spots that the Braves were coming into the season.
I know Smoltzie hadn’t been seriously injured for awhile, but he hadn’t exactly been healthy either. As you said ububba, nobody wanted to say it, but everybody knew he wasn’t going to pitch forever. As for Glavine, he hadn’t ever been to the DL, but there’s a reason why pitchers in this day and age don’t pitch 20+ years without going on the DL (Maddux is the lone exeception). It reminds me of an Old School line “that’s what old people do, they die,” well that’s what old pitchers do, they get injured. Point to me another team that was counting on two 40+ year olds plus a guy who hasn’t pitched in forever for 60% of its rotation, and I’ll show you another team who has been bitten as hard by the injury bug.
This team was put together with “high upside” where if every single thing went right, the Braves were going to be a very good team, but the probability of that happening was very, very low. Glavine and Moylan getting hurt to me, as far as the major injuries go, are the only ones I’m willing to give Frank Wren a pass on.
Jeremy–That trade already hurts because we lost lots of trading chips and had little left when player such as Bedard, Haren and Santana were on the market. The fact that some of these players may well have stellar careers will only rub salt into the wound for years to come….
Stephen, if there is one think I am confident in the Braves as an organization, it’s that they don’t overpay for free agent.
The Braves could not have afforded to pay Santana the extension he coveted. The extension he got from the Mets pays him $22M per. That would be more than 1/4th the current payroll. That is totally implausible from an monetary standpoint. It’s the same dilemma they face with Teixeira.
Now Haren stings. The Braves (without the trade for Teixiera) could have put together a package better than what the Dbacks gave up, and would have had him under control through 2010. That’s huge.
kc,
The point is Feliz’ value is going up. Scouts have compared his cut fastball to Rivera’s. Andrus is a 19 year old shortstop in AA. Hanley Ramirez OPSed .720 in AA, at age 21. I’d say it’s a bit early to make any judgments on Elvis.
The Braves knew at the time that Boras was Tex’ agent. Look at the Haren and Bedard trades. Look at the Santana trade. The Braves gave up way too much for Teixeira.
Speaking of trades, anyone seen Joey Devine’s line lately? 28 k in 22 IP; granted he is on the DL right now.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/d/devinjo01.shtml
I’m not sure the Braves could have matched the offers for Haren or Bedard. Both teams wanted prospects that were major league ready and the Braves last year or this don’t exactly have those growing on trees, most of their talent this year and last were at the lower levels.
That’s not saying the Braves didn’t give up too much for Tex.
The Braves would not have given Santana the extension, but they could have had him for a year. Given our rotation last year, that might have been a worthy goal.
KC–I hope that you are right, but since they knew Boras was going to be the agent involved it is hard to see anything other than two negative outcomes: (1) Tex leaves after 2008–after coming to the Braves at a high cost; (2) the Braves overpaying to satisfy Boras’ demands.
In any case, with or without Tex the Braves face some serious rebuilding issues….
Salty isn’t major league ready?
I’m fairly confident that the Braves could have bettered the Dbacks offer.
When you’re a mid payroll team like the Braves, Haren (and to a lesser extent Bedard) is the type of player they should be giving up elite prospects for, someone they have control of for longer than a year and three months, not Teixeira, or Santana.
I think the A’s were looking for major league ready pitching more than anything. Eveland and Smith are already in their rotation, the Braves I don’t think would have had two (especially left handed) prospects of that caliber. Morton was largely an unknown before this season. They also got Carlos Gonzalez, who is probably more major league ready than any OF prospect that the Braves have, with the exception of maybe Schafer.
They also got three other lower level prospects that the Braves probably could have matched. You’re right it would have been nice in hindsight to see, because you’re 100% percent correct that those types of the players are more worthy of giving up the farm for.
Jeremy, the Braves got Mahay and a first round pick from the deal as well whereas the As, Os, and Twins didn’t get that.
Also, the M’s and the Dbacks gave up more for Bedard and Haren than we did for Tex. That’s my personal opinion though.
I read somewhere Smoltz was going to start throwing with his left hand. That way it’s like he’s starting his career over again.
Yep, throwing a left-handed knuckle-curve, I hear.
I think the Tex trade has been discussed way too many times. By now, it’s either you like it or not. In my opinion, it was the right deal because 1) last year’s offense was not going anywhere with Andruw and Thorman/Franco in the lineup; 2) it brings in an affordable replacement cleanup hitter to replace Andruw for this season; and 3) a talent like Tex is not often available (where can you find such talent now if we need one?).
IMHO, it was a right trade but didn’t work out quite as well as we hoped. Tex’s performance this season has been beyond disappointing. I am sure he will still have a big second half, but I am not sure if it matters by then.
It’s funny when you look back, the team collapsed last season when Edger went down, and this year’s team is lost when Kotsay went down. Talk about value of veteran players…even though I am not sure how much of the team’s struggle comes with Kotsay’s absent…
ububba, I thought he is becoming left-handed version of Tim Wakefield…
Looking at it from the A’s perspective in the off season:
Greg Smith > Jo Jo Reyes
Dana Eveland > Chuck James
Carlos Gonzalez > Schafer
Chris Carter > Kaaihue
Connor Robertson > Hanson (before the season)
Brett Anderson > Matt Harrison (say the Braves still had him)
Aaron Cunningham = Brandon Jones
From the Orioles perspective:
Adam Jones > Schafer
George Sherrill = no major league lefty closer in Braves system
Chris Tillman > Hanson
Tony Butler = Harrison
Kameron Mickolio = probably could have matched that
It would have been nice to see, but I’m not sure the Braves could have matched either offer.
kc,
The Dbacks did give up a lot. You guys are probably right that the A’s wanted (and received) more ML ready talent than the Braves could have offered. But we could have thrown in Reyes, or Devine, or Davies (had we kept him).
I don’t think the M’s package of Jones, Tillman and Sherrill is better than Salty, Feliz, Andrus and Harrison.
…and how many times I have to say it, the Tex trade was not a five for one deal. The team got a first round pitching prospect through this draft because of Mahay.
Andrus is a 19 year old playing for the Frisco Rough Riders and holding his own in AA. The same club has Max Ramirez who is having a monster season. We traded Ramirez for Wickman–which was a necessary move to make in 2006. Losing Feliz hurt as well and every time I heard someone complain last week that the Braves did not draft any power arms, I wanted to reply that we had one…
More generally, I fear that in the drive to stay competitive every year the Braves are falling into the same trap that the Yankees did in the 1980s in which the latter kept trading away promising players for short term needs. The Yanks did not win much in the 1980s and did not recover until the mid-1990s….
I hope that I am wrong….
Stephen, blame Ted Turner for including the Braves in his deal with Time Warner. I still blame him for that…and thank him for everything between 1991 and the deal.
Feliz was 14 spots higher on BP’s list than Tillman coming into the year. Tillman is two levels higher, but Feliz has the higher upside. I think they are similar prospects. Ditto Schafer and Gonzalez.
Chuck James was removed in the 4th last night after 75 pitches (0 Runs), does this mean he’ll be sent back up for Glavine?
No point in debating hypotheticals. We traded for Teixeira and are where we are.
What do we do now is the question?
For what we gave up to get him you almost have to roll the dice and hope he bypasses Boras and re-signs. The odds of that happening aren’t great, but I think that’s a risk they have to take. If he leaves, we’ll have to take the draft picks and regroup.
Jeremy, I guess I have a higher opinion of Adam Jones than I do Salty. I think the package you listed would have been too much for Bedard, a guy who has only had two years above 150 IP and none above 200 IP.
Jeremy, Adam Jones was a top five prospect in baseball and Sherrill is a major league ready closer.
I think you are 1) over-appreciating Braves prospects and 2) under-appreciating other team’s prospects.
Jones was a good prospect, but I don’t recall seeing him in the top five anywhere. He wasn’t Upton or Bruce. (A quick perusal of BP’s prospect list from ’07 has Jones at #44.) I don’t think he was more valuable than Salty. Don’t forget what Salty did in AA last year before he was called up. His value was sky high.
And I’m going off rankings, mainly BP’s because I have their annuals handy. I don’t see how I’m overvaluing our prospects. You seem to be underrating Salty and Feliz.
Francoeur’s situational hitting makes me wonder about the control the Braves coaches have. His approach at the plate is basically identical to Andruw’s except w/ half the power. Why can’t Bobby just tell him to change his style or he’s benched?
Charles–its issues like this that makes me think the whole organization needs to be revamped. If you look through our whole organization, it is not obvious that things like situation hitting and learning to take pitches is being all that well coached. We have simply not produced many good hitters lately.
I don’t want to go on and on about it here, but I think that we are doing an even worse job when it comes to developing pitchers.
Rebuilding will mean much more than putting 9 men on the field in Atlanta or fielding a strong 25 man roster. Instead, it probably requires rethinking and reprogramming the organization from the bottom up.
The Braves should aim to be able to adapt (and exploit) the changes in baseball which have occurred during the last decade. The ultimate goal should be to restore the title ‘model organization’ that the Braves seemed to have in the 1990s. Becoming a model organzation should ensure another run of great seasons–which now seem increasingly problematic….
regarding Tex, they should tell him and his agent they want to work on a new contract right now, if they do not want to talk, trade him, for whatever we can get. Of course we will have no 1B, but we already have no OF so whats one more void in the lineup.
Frenchy, wow,. He needs to be Dontrelled.
I would keep Ohman and sign him now as well, you can never have enough arms, we see that now.
Not much else to do, Ride the wave, maybe fire a coach to shake it up. I dont know. The only thing I would not do is call up any prospects who are not ready and retard their progress. Let them play and succeed in the minors, call them up when the season is officially washed out, late august or so.
“I still think the Glavine signing is absolutely the right move for reasons beyond the draft picks and salary. We were all very excited about this team coming into spring training.”
Not everyone. I thought 85 wins was the max, and I recall a couple others on here in agreement that the Glavine signing was bad for both draft and baseball reasons (he projected for a huge decline AND injury, though everyone hissed when Neyer et al. suggested as much). And I’m sorry, while there have been a lot of injuries, it’s just not surprising: as others have pointed out, depending on two 40-year olds and Mike Hampton to boot never boded well for the season.
The point was that this was a poorly constructed roster from January onwards. Think about it this way: Chipper has been phenomenal, McCann has emerged after a sophomore slump into the best hitting catcher in baseball, Jurrjens has exceeded expectations while Reyes has also, quietly, been a pleasant surprise, and up until the past two weeks the bullpen has actually performed admirably–even with the injuries. The reality is that even with such ‘surprises’ – or positive answers to spring training question marks – the team has been painfully yet predictably mediocre. It’s a failure of vision, not the result of injury.
Plus, what is really concerning is the idea that Wren could conceivably blame all this on injury. Then we might be in for myopia.
Adam M–I agree with much of what you have just said. What angered me about Wren last winter was his lack of ambition.
One thing that I will say for the man is that so far he has avoided the trap (as Oldtimer notes) of rushing prospects to the majors. So far he has been patient with Morton, leaving me with some hope that he realizes that the Braves have done damage to players like Davies, Devine and probably Frenchy by having them play in Atlanta before they are really ready.
I refuse to take the poll until Pendleton and McDowell’s names are added. Someone else isn’t specific enough, hell put Cox on there too.
“It just wasn’t a good time tonight,” said Jeff Francoeur, whose game-ending double play groundout officially handed the Braves their 15th loss in their past 19 games.
“It’s unbelievable on the road how many balls we can hit hard right at somebody,” Francoeur said.
It just wasn’t a good time tonight? HA! Merci, Frencoeur. I’ve known 3 spot hitters are much more sophisticated and much better than others. Cheers, Bobby too. Francoeur who is under the illusion, “The Hotlanta Braves Prince Charming Syndrome guy” that the matter aroused keen my braves’ fans controversy.
I’ve never watched when Acosta pitches. I don’t know about him well. Just checked his stats. To my surprise, he’s pitched all kinds of balls on the mound even though he is a reliever. But Boyer, this red-haired guy usually throws fastball. On the other hand, Soriano pitches fastball, occasionally slider. What happen to Acosta? Is it mental problem or what?
I feel terrible that we didn’t win against last Phillies, especially the first game.
Started road trips again including interleague. The Braves’ schedule arranged to visit Toronto in late June. I will go if circumstances permit the Braves win or not. Probably this year is my last chance.
je n’demande pas grand chose ne argent ni bouquets de roses je veux seulement garder pour moi.de mon cadeau. I’m listening this one. Feel so good. Go Jurrjens!!!!!!!!!!
Ububba has pretty much summed up the season thus far. We were building to win this season and things haven’t worked out.
I am all for trying to leverage Texiera but his value is pretty low right now and I haven’t given up….. yet. The positives are pretty positive.
Jurrjens
McCann
KJ – 3 players you can build around
Reyes – I think he may come around
The negatives? Why rehash them?
At some point Wren will have to throw in the towel and look to get some players. Like some outfielders for crying out loud. But there is enough season left for Tex to start hitting, Chipper to continue dominating and Reyes and Jurrjens and Hudson to anchor a run. Who knows stranger things have happened?
Yeah, it’s time to blow up this team. I’d go even farther than most of you who just want to trade Tex and spare parts. Tim Hudson could bring back a motherlode of prospects in a trade. If Gonzalez proves he’s healthy and effective, he could get good value too. Trade Chipper while he still is relatively healthy enough to get you something back. You don’t need a #1 starter, a hall of fame 3rd baseman, and a top notch closer on a team that is going to win in the low 70s the next 2-3 years. Go the Marlins route and with smart trades and drafting the Braves will be back in contention in the early years of the next decade.
I’m with Ron on this one. Time to hang out the Fire Sale sign.
Trade Chips – Hudson, Gonzales, Ohman,Campillo
Keepers- KJ, Escobar, CJones(I don’t think he wants to leave), McCann,Jurrjens,Reyes
Hold-Teixeira-for the draft picks he’ll bring in next year.
Demote-Francoeur
I think Hudson would garner a load of prospects from a team that needs that last SP (Yankees?) to make a run. If Gonzo is healthy, he and Ohman would fetch some help for teams that are looking to shore up their pen. I personally would bank the picks from Tex signing elsewhere rather than trying to trade him mid-season.
If I was the Birdman, I would explore the possibility with Chipper of a trade to the AL, where he could DH occasionally, but I think Chipper wants to be one of those old-time ‘One Career Team’ players.
Cox said that he knew Glavine’s elbow was hurting before the game and its been hurting since his May 4th appearance. Then why in the hell did you let him pitch?
“It’s unbelievable on the road how many balls we can hit hard right at somebody,” Francoeur said.
Actually Jeff dont say we in that sentence. You struck out twice, had a lazy fly ball (on the 1st pitch), had a broken bat infield single, and grounded into the game ending DP. Your teammates hit the ball hard, you still suck…
And now Bobby’s thoughts on Acosta’s outing
“That’s just a tiny little popup with the wind that lands in the basket,” Cox said. “He hit it 320 feet, I guess with the wind. [Acosta] threw a lot better tonight.”
That’s why its time for you to go Bobby. You need to jump on a few of these guys instead of always praising them.
who would’ve thought that Boyers two walks and KJ’s drop would’ve started the end of our season
Don’t fire Bobby; promote him to cheerleader for life. Bring in Larry Bowa, Ozzie Guillen, or Joe Stalin. Let them shoot who they will and send the rest to the Danville gulag.
Trade everybody but McCann, JJ, JoJo, KJ and Yunel.
Let Chipper make his own deal with whoever he will go to, or keep him and have him bronzed.
Go Braves.
Desperate times call for desperate measures. Speaking of which, Sidney Ponson was released the other day. He had put up some decent numbers this season….could be a cheap pick up….
In fairness, they did hit a number of balls hard right at people. Escobar smoked the ball right at the shortstop with two on, Blanco was robbed, even Frenchy’s DP in the 9th was smoked. Those aren’t excuses, of course, for Frenchy’s remaining terrible at bats, but it is a fact that luck often runs in cycles.
I am not going to claim clairvoyance and say I knew the team sucked over the winter, but I was very concerned about relying on two 40 year olds in the rotation–with one as the ace. The injuries are not starting to kill the pitching but, for the most part, it’s been the lack of production from the offense rather than the pitching that’s been the problem.
Organizations run in cycles too. The Braves were a model organization for a while but, like any other human institution, they have gotten set in their ways. While baseball has evolved, the Braves still do things as if it’s the 90s. It’s just inevitable. Eventually, they will have to change but with JS and Bobby still around, it’s going to take time. Unfortunately, I think Bobby wants to hang around although I would not be shocked if he changes his mind if the team really tanks.
I disagree about blowing up the team and starting over. There just is no guarantee that that will work just because the Marlins have done it. Given the value that teams now place on young talent, And given the nature of MLB now, with the wildcard, there is no need to do it. What’s the point of lowering the payroll to $30 million just to say you are starting over? Clearly, there need to be some changes in organizational philosophy but just dumping all the veterans is no solution. No one expected the White Sox to win the World Series in 2005.
The first thing is the organization is going to have to be honest with itself about Francouer; if they really think he is the future, the Braves are in deep trouble. Francoeur represents a philosophy that just isn’t working any more but I doubt that the Braves are ready yet to bring Bill James on board.
Wasn’t it just like two weeks ago that we were all LOLing it up about those silly reactionary Met fans who started asking for the team to be dismantled immediately following a sweep or something? Weren’t they like two games under .500 with most of the season left to go or something?
This is retarded. The team is pretty bad right now. And it might be true that we’re back in the division by double-digits by the end of the road trip. But on the other hand, we might tread water. And then catch fire in July when some random prospect gets called up and gets really hot. (Ryan Ludwick anyone?!)
Whatever. This team isn’t awful, it’s just acting like it. Tonight’s another game. Let’s all try to be a little less like Met fans.
Oh, and we do need to do something about Frenchy, whether it’s take a trip to the DL and rehab in AAA or whatever. I’d say bench him, but for who? Anderson? When the other two starting OFs are out is about the worst time for Frenchy to be plumbing the depths of his slump. *sigh* If only Brandon Jones didn’t suck simultaneously!
Do we seriously not have someone who could come up and hit better than .250 in RF?
When I look at the standings and the number of games remaining in the season, it’s hard for me to conclude that we’re out of it and should start thinking about jettisoning Tim Hudson.
When I look at how we’ve played, though, I want Mac to change this to Cubs Journal and jump ship forever.
Let’s trade for Xavier Nady (or sign Reggie Sanders) and call up Brandon Jones. See if we can hang around; if we do, go hard after Bedard in July.
(Let’s be honest: Losing Glavine doesn’t hurt all that much. He hasn’t been very good and won’t be the difference between us winning and losing.)
Oh, and Nick @ #22, you made my morning. That was beautiful.
“Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”
-Albert Einstein
“Tonight I’ll try Boyer. And if that fails, Acosta. Then the next night Acosta, then Boyer. Then Ascosta and then Acosta for two innings. Then Boyer. Then Acosta. Then Acosta again….”
-Bobby Cox
Triple-post (and completely off topic):
Remember when Leo went to the Orioles and they had to give up something in return because of the timing or whatever, and the rumor was that it was going to be Nick Markakis? And instead, we ended up getting King Felix’s older, much crappier brother? Good times.
The Braves would have traded Nick Markakis because Jeff Francoeur was blocking him.
For the record, I never called for trading Hudson or even Teixeira. I don’t know what the solution is. At this point, if the Braves are still ‘treading water’ in July then it will probably be time to dump Teixeira for prospects, if such a move is feasible. But I don’t think trading Hudson is a solution, nor, with his contract so backloaded, will it necessarily be that easy.
There are ways to ‘rebuild’ without selling everyone off and lowering the payroll to a ridiculously low number. The Rangers traded Teixeira and a year later lead the league in hitting. The A’s traded Swisher and Haren and are playing better this season than last. It takes good moves and smart front office management, but trading an expiring contract does not necessarily mean becoming the Marlins. That too is ‘retarded.’ This Braves team may never really be out of contention, but that doesn’t make them good or well constructed.
@109,
Good points.
Hudson has a couple years left on the contract. We shouldn’t trade him, even if we fall out.
Did anyone else see Lilly throw at McCann last night after the homer? I would’ve thought there’d be more discussion about that.
Apparently, the Braves aren’t going to replace Glavine’s roster spot until Sunday. As if we weren’t already playing with a short roster.
Apparently, the Braves aren’t going to replace Glavine’s roster spot until Sunday. As if we weren’t already playing with a short roster.
What’s the reasoning? That seems so stupid.
I was just at atlantabraves.com and noticed the link to Frenchy’s blog, which actually has comments open for his posts. A funny sample:
“Seriously Jeff, quit swinging at pitches in the opposite batter’s box.”
“Jeff, DO NOT SWING AT THE HIGH FASTBALL OR ANYTHING ELSE YOUR WAITING ON, YOU CANNOT HIT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
“…you alone left 20 runners on base in the past 4 games.”
What an opportunity to let Frenchy know how you feel!
Dunno, Stu. It was in the last paragraph of Peanut’s article. I guess the reasoning is that Glavine wouldn’t normally be used until his next start anyway, so they won’t bother replacing the roster spot. If it were me, I’d get another position player up for a few days until Glavine’s spot in the rotation comes up.
Haha mraver…we just need ryan ludwick! Our missing piece!
Me, too. We have a 3-man bench.
Well, as bad as it is, at least we are not Mets fans. I think one of them, at least, will commit homicide against either Willie Randolph or the Mets’ players. Either that or jump off the Empire State Building–or both. In some ways, it would be amusing for the Braves to have a lousy season and still finish ahead of the Mets.
Bethany asked if we have someone in the minors in RF who could hit better than .250. Unfortunately, I don’t think so. As bad as Frenchy has been, I still think I prefer him to Joe Borchard – he’s batting .274 with a .799 OPS in Richmond. Matt Young is hitting .302 in Mississippi, but with and OPS of .800 and only 1 HR. Brandon Jones’ OPS of .709 and 2 Hrs in Richmond is a little worse than Frenchy’s .712 OPS.
Bottom line is that our OFers throughout the majors, AA and AAA are terrible (unless Schafer starts living up to his potential). We don’t have many trading chips in position players until we get to A ball and below (even our middle infielders (previously a position of strength) aren’t doing much). Unless we shake up the current ML roster with a few trades, we may be stuck with what we have.
I read that they would not make the roster decision until today, after discussions with Wren. Doubt that they won’t do anything until Sunday.
td-that is exactly right; there is no relief on the farm for Frenchie, until you get to low “A”, so i think he is safe in his position for at least a couple of years.
What I cannot figure out is in a clubhouse with great walk rate guys like Chipper and Tiexera, why he cannot learn to be just a little bit better? I understand strike zone judgment is a skill, and he is void of the skill to be great at it; cannot he work on at least being a little better at it?
For all of his lip service during spring training, about being more selective, the bottom line is that 40% into this season, Frenchie has digressed from his unacceptably bad level of last year to where he was 2 years ago. What is up with that? Where is the organizational help (or stick?)
What can we get for Tex? Does anyone think we could get Clayton Kershaw or Clay Buchholz?
On a totally unrelated topic, the word is ‘regressed,’ not ‘digressed,’ I swear.
123- No. Right now, we couldn’t get Clay Aiken for Tex. A contender isn’t going to give up their #1 pitching prospect for a guy struggling at the plate and about to walk in a contract year.
What can we get for Tex? Does anyone think we could get Clayton Kershaw or Clay Buchholz?
No way. If we’re dealing him, I’d start with a team who has a solid, young 1B to get in return and see what else they’d tack on. Think Angels and Kotchman. We couldn’t get Adenhart, but maybe something like Jordan Walden or Sean O’Sullivan. That’d be pretty good.
Wouldn’t it be better, then, to just hang on to him and acquire draft picks next year?
Someone like Kotchman is more of a sure thing and far more helpful in the immediate future than the low-ish first round and supplemental first-round draft picks we’d get in return.
If the trade market for Teix isn’t nearly as strong as I think it would be, though, it might make sense to just take the picks.
agreed… depends on who is being offered.
I agree with Marc that blowing up a team is pretty much never a good idea. It is very unlikely to work. Sure, the Marlins are better than expected, but I can pretty much guarantee you that they’re not gonna go anywhere this year due to the lack of any veteran presence on the team. Our youth movement all those years ago wasn’t worthwhile until we went out and got some veteran players. You can’t just sell all players like that and expect it to work. Frankly, doing that is really the hallmark of a lazy GM. It should be very doable to both rebuild while fielding a competitive club every year, if that’s what we decide we need to do. It always baffles me when anybody who professes to be a fan of a team wants to totally send that team down the crapper for three years on the extremely off-chance that it might work. Young talent does not alone win anything.
If we feel like we need to trade Tex, fine. But selling everyone over the age of 28 is just stupid.
Thanks for the compliments.
Mac has a tough job. You have to make sure everything is correct and have it up in a small amount of time.
I thought about going off on a massive rant, but it was just too hard to think clearly. I think it sumed up what we were all thinking.
Just in case Brian Lawrence isn’t the answer… Steve Trachsel got cut. Heh heh. Freddy Garcia is still available if we’re feeling lucky.
Of course, neither of these guys will probably help much. But that’s who is available.
I’d go with Bennett over Lawrence and Trachsel
is Tex that much of an upgrade over Kotchman right now? I dont see any reason the Angels would do that
Jeff Bennett will start in place of Jair Jurrjens when the Braves face the Cubs at Wrigley Field at 8:05 p.m. ET on Wednesday.
Jurrjens sprained an ankle while leaving Wrigley following the Braves’ 10-5 loss on Tuesday night
i dont think I would trade Hudson if i was in charge, figure we will lose all our veteran pitchers this offseason, Glavine, Smoltz, Hampton( I know, I know), you need one stabilizer on the staff. Besides, we will still need a starting pitcher to replace him, and not an unproven kid with potential, we have that.
I still wont rip Wren for this teams construction, no production from Diaz, francouer, and a slew of injuries will screw anyone.
I will let him have this offseason to judge his overall production.
#135 – this is getting ridiculous
This is the curse of Frank Fultz.
MGL,
You lie.
its going to be interesting what Wren does this offseason. We’ll have Smoltz, Hampton, Kotsay, and Tex off the books. We also have no one other than Schafer to fill these holes in house. Sabathia will be a FA, but he’ll demand 20+, as will Tex and Holliday. With our payroll, I dont see any of those guys in ATL next season. We may be lucky to get Smoltz back. Another thing to consider is that its very likely Soriano will need TJ surgery and if he does we probably wont have him in the pen next season either
its true, Bennett tonight
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2008_06_11_atlmlb_chnmlb_1&mode=preview
so we lose Jurr and Glavine in this series, while they move Zambrano up a game, hmmm, I smell a sweep
I guess this is why we have 13 pitchers.
So what is it now?
Hudson-Bennett-Reyes-Campillo-Morton?
That is a last-place rotation.
140: I thought Holliday was signed through 2009.
this is unbelievable
Smoltz – out for season with shoulder surgery
Glavine – 2nd stint DL, elbow (maybe done)
Moylan – TJ surgery season ending
Prado – broken wrist 4-6 weeks
Diaz – knee 4-6 weeks
Soriano – elbow, day to day but useless
Jo Jo -blisters
Campillo – blisters
Jurrjens – blisters now sprained ankle
Kotsay – back, still on DL
Hampton – armpit, chest, elbow, knees, head, arms, legs, family dog, will never pitch again
Carlyle – concussion
Escobar – Ryan Church being an idiot
Lerew – must have vanished
Gonzo – recovering TJ
Francouer – mental case
Tex – sucking
Bobby – he’s done
trainers – why do we have them
Miller – taking a roster spot while hitting under .075
Pena – designated because Miller is better???
Resop – kept him over Yates for what reason?
missing anyone for anything???
Bobby Cox called about an hour ago to see if I wanted to pitch tonight. I reached for my keys and blew out my elbow.
#143 – we have 13 but Bobby only uses 10 or so. Wait till Boyer, Bennett, and Acosta go down
Go read this:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3437067
No one wants Bonds for the minimum salary. I would sign him today for the league min. I don’t care about pissing off Hank Aaron, I want to win baseball games!
Heck, why not give David Wells a call?
What the heck did happen to Lerew? I just read the espn article too, and would be happy for them to put Gibbons in AAA: what’s that going to hurt?
Barry Bonds is not the answer. He hasn’t played all year and, let’s not forget, he’d under indictment. Let him stew.
Nathan,
Re: #124
Yes, “digress” was the wrong usage in that instance. But it doesn’t mean that Frenchy hasn’t regressed and digressed.
He’s digressed from playing effective, winning baseball.
Any word on whether anyone claimed Brayan Pena yet?
Is JJ just going to miss one start or is he joining Glavine and others on the DL?
Oh and CSG, you missed one.
James – shoulder, head
What could it hurt to have Bonds for at least 20-60 games for next to nothing? I would take part of a seaon of Bonds over a week of Norfante
is Tex that much of an upgrade over Kotchman right now? I dont see any reason the Angels would do that
Teixeira — 130 career OPS+, 119 2008 OPS+
Kotchman — 102 career OPS+, 114 2008 OPS+
Teixeira’s pretty obviously the better player, even in his down periods. And he always hits better in the second half.
BTW, I never would have guessed that Teix’s career OPS+ is worse than Adam Dunn’s. I think that fact puts me firmly in the let’s-not-give-Teix-$20-million-per-season camp.
I really think part of Frenchie’s plate discipline issues date back a long way and were hurt by his quick promotion to the majors. I don’t have the stats to prove this, but he seems to me to be taking more pitches, fouling a few more balls off and going deeper in the count. It just seems like when he gets to 2 or 3 balls hes says: “Oh no, everyone is depending on me, if I walk here I can’t drive in runs.” I think this is a mental thing and can be turned around. I’m just not sure if he can overcome the length of his swing.
I’d rather lose 100 games without Bonds than win a World Series with Bonds.
The Jurrjens thing is unreal.
At least we know Morton’s getting a shot…
Thanks to wikipedia it appears Brayan was claimed off waivers by the Royals and then placed on waivers again the next day. Still no clue where he ended up.
Stu,
Umm, I’d take a World title anyone playing for us.
Owners have to know something the fans don’t. Performance-wise, Barry Bonds is worth so much more than the league minimum, obviously. As the article says, his trial is set for March 2009, so he’s not going to be carted off to jail in September.
Gibbons and Logan are interesting though. They’re not facing charges, but they’ve basically been black-listed from Major League Baseball. Whether it’s collusion or not, every single major league team wants nothing to do with them. They have to know something we don’t.
That’s absolutely amazing about Jurrjens. It seriously amazes me. Not the good kind of amazing either, like a lunar eclipse or a James Bond movie.
I’d take Kotchman. He’d probably be happier living closer to some of his family. His parents live in Clearwater, FL.
its going to be interesting what Wren does this offseason. We’ll have Smoltz, Hampton, Kotsay, and Tex off the books. We also have no one other than Schafer to fill these holes in house. Sabathia will be a FA, but he’ll demand 20+, as will Tex and Holliday. With our payroll, I dont see any of those guys in ATL next season. We may be lucky to get Smoltz back. Another thing to consider is that its very likely Soriano will need TJ surgery and if he does we probably wont have him in the pen next season either
Yes, it should be very interesting. Note that we’re also losing Glavine. That’s something like $45 million off the books. (Probably more like $35 million once raises to McCann, Soriano and arbitration-eligible players like Francoeur and KJ are factored in.) I actually expect us to be major players for at least one or two big-name FAs.
#155 – career wise yes he’s clearly better, but he’s not impressing anyone right now. I wouldnt give up Kotchman for Tex for only half a season. I guess it doesnt matter because we’re the Braves and we always think we’re still in it
Smitty,
Yeah, I gathered that from your Bonds promotion. I disagree.
The only thing that the quick promotion to MLB did to Frenchie is denied the Braves an opportunity to try and correct the plate approach while he was younger. Once he was in the MLB and enjoying tremendous success, it was impossible to slow that then-so successful train. However, as we all know, they scout, learn and adjust at the MLB level, and that second year, when they would go a foot outside and watch Frenchie hack pretty much dictated what he was going to see, until he adjusted. So far, he has not.
The notion that he feels pressure to produce in a line-up of Chipper; Tiex; and McCann just doesn’t seem right to me. I cannot imagine a line-up where there is less pressure to produce. Frenchie starts hacking because that is all he knows, and all he has done and been told to do since they set a ball on a tee for him.
csg,
Teix is better this year than Kotchman and hasn’t yet hit his annual stride. FWIW, I wouldn’t expect the Angels to trade Kotchman for half a season of Teix, either—I think they’d stand a great shot at being able to lock him up long-term.
If the Angels were willing to trade Kotchman for Teix, I would trade him immediately.
IMO, Tex is not worth 20 mil. Let him go to NY, so he can really feel the heat when he doesn’t perform.
Smoltz – out for season with shoulder surgery= He’s old.
Glavine – 2nd stint DL, elbow (maybe done)=He’s old
Moylan – TJ surgery season ending=Bobby overworked him last year.
Prado – broken wrist 4-6 weeks=Tough luck, was doing pretty good coming off the bench.
Diaz – knee 4-6 weeks=Out of shape, wasn’t hitting.
Soriano – elbow, day to day but useless=Unproven as a closer.
Jo Jo -blisters=Young and talented. Blisters will not stop him.
Campillo – blisters=Overrated and figured out.
Jurrjens – blisters now sprained ankle=Young, tough and talented. Will okay.
Kotsay – back, still on DL=No surprise.
Hampton – armpit, chest, elbow, knees, head, arms, legs, family dog, will never pitch again= Best ripoff of all time.
Escobar – Ryan Church being an idiot=Healthy again.
Lerew – must have vanished=Was not good when healthy.
Gonzo – recovering TJ=One day he might pitch.
Francouer – mental case=Or not as talented as thought.
Tex – sucking=It is what it is.
Bobby – he’s done=Going through the motions.
trainers – why do we have them=Ever since fat guy left, it’s been downhill.
Miller – taking a roster spot while hitting under .075=Keith Lockhart, Woodward, Pete Orr. Reminds Bobby of his career as a player.
Pena – designated because Miller is better???=He is better than Bobby was as a player.
Resop – kept him over Yates for what reason? Reminded Bobby of Chris Reitsma
WTF…..thats all I have to say…..WTF
yep-frenchie isn’t a mental case-this is about his level of perfromance.
Andruw is either a mental or physical case this year, as he has shown over time that he is much better than what he is doing, this year.
Frenchie’s stat line is just Frenchie’s stat line from every other year except his rookie short-term splash. lots of outs; lots of RBI; no walks.
Jurrjens next one on the DL? its possible?
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080611&content_id=2890834&vkey=news_atl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl
As Yogi Berra would say, baseball is 90% mental, the other half is physical. I still say that Frenchy’s approach has been better over the last few weeks, but he’s tended to panic (for some unknown reason) when it gets later in the count – even w/ 1 strike. IMO, much of his problem is that he’s still struggling to foul off bad pitches (on the odd chance that he actually makes contact with a ball that is low and outside.)
Lets trade for Magglio and Robertson
Man the lifeboats. This team is a sinking ship.
This is absurd.
Well, I guess we were bound for an injury-riddled season at least once in the past 20 years.
From Keith Law’s chat today:
There is hope! In 3-4 years, we’ll have 3 good players!
Once Frenchy showed he was not totally overmatched by major league pitching, there was no point sending him back to the minors. He wasn’t going to learn plate discipline by hitting against pitchers with worse control than in the majors. If anything, his ability to hit these guys would have reinforced his overly-aggressive tendencies, IMO. Guys either can adjust to the majors or they can’t. Morever, I think a lot of it is his long swing and his concern about not being able to catch up to fastballs. Hitting is largely reactive; as Yogi Berra said (Yogi seems to be popular here), you can’t hit and think at the same time. I don’t think Frenchy’s problem is that he is dumb (although he might be); it’s that he doesn’t feel comfortable waiting on the ball because he can’t get the bat through the zone soon enough.
OK, so we now have two-fifths and possibly three-fifths of the rotation on the DL. It seems entirely possible to me that they could do something like lose 18 of 20. I’m not predicting it and certainly not rooting for it, but given all the problems, if Bobby can keep this team from totally collapsing, he deserves to be manager for life no matter how many dumb moves he makes in the games.
According to Rotoworld, Joe Borchard needs Tommy John surgery and is out for the season
Jurrjens, too?
Before you know it, Bobby & the batboy will be injured. Mark it up to whatever you want, but this is beyond silly.
From the Metsblog last night:
“OK, in the interests of saving time, here’s the top 10 comments after a loss:
1. This team has no heart/fire/passion/guts.
2. Getting rid of Gotay/Bannister/Bell/ Lindstrom/ Milledge was a terrible mistake
3. This team is no better than .500
4. Castillo/Delgado/Heilman/Easley/Tatis/ Endy sucks
5. Alou/Pedro/ElDuque are on the DL all the time
6. Perez/Pelfrey is a head case
7. Santana isn’t as good as we thought.
8. Bring up Valentin/Carp/Murphy/Armas/Pascucci
9. Get Nady/Dunn/Lofton/Bonds
And of course,
10. FIRE WILLIE
Did I miss anything?”
Sound familiar??
J Man may well be headed for the DL:
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080611&content_id=2890834&vkey=news_atl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl
I wonder if the Braves will now bring back Damian Moss in addition to Morton….What a season…
The Braves’ dugout is looking like Ward Six.
Game thread is up.
From DOB “Jurrjens scratched, probably Bennett tonight, almost certainly going to be Morton on Sunday.
And OF Brandon Jones called up to take Glavine’s roster spot, probably be here tonight.”
I never thought I would be happy that TBS dropped my team. I couldn’t bear watching this train wreck every night…and I would.
sorry……….i meant Horners 4 HR game……….