135 thoughts on “Chris Chambliss is back!”

  1. the fact that, in spite of everything, he SHOULD have had a managers position as of now. he’s interviewed something like 10 times. there has GOT to be something, if people like Mata, etc., get jobs over him.

    I like TP. I think he’s been GREAT for the Braves. But there has got to be something.

  2. Maybe he’d just rather wait for Bobby to retire and take over the Braves then go to some crap franchise like the Royals or Pirates?

  3. When the Nat’s job was open, he took himself out of the conversation. He didn’t want to leave the Braves.

    Apparently he was in the discussion if Larussa had left the Cards, but that didn’t end up happening. That seems like a job he WOULD have left the Braves for.

  4. I think TP will be the Braves manager in 2009. I just have a feeling that with JS gone, this season may be Bobby’s last.

  5. @10,

    Pendleton turned down coaching jobs after he first retired for several years from various teams. He had moved his family to Atlanta an he didn’t want to start being away from home.

    He certainly would consider a managing gig and I think his kids will be out of high school in the next few years.

    He was personally a little bit too much of a free swinger, but really had a studious approach to hitting. He moved up in the box on sinker ballers and batted exclusively right handed against right handed knuckleballers. Changed his stance and swing mechanics.

    As to his not getting an offer and doing a lot of interviews, he is probably included because he is both a plausible candidate and a minority candidate. Most of the hiring I have seen where he didn’t get the job didn’t look like either a situation where he wouldn’t have wanted to go (Marlins?) or either there was another candidate that was obviously a better fit.

  6. That poll is insane. 30-5 McFadden over Tebow? Ridiculous. I’m not saying Tebow is “head-and-shoulders” above McFadden, but Tebow has been the better player this year. I would like to know who the people voting in that poll are.

  7. What?

    McFadden is by far the better player. Tebow, it could be argued, is a product of the system (see Alex Smith), while McFadden is, well, a player who produced at a level unseen in the SC since the days of Herschel and Bo and who had to deal with a Nutt for 3 years.

    Need I say more?

  8. Don’t compare Tim Tebow to Alex Smith. Yes, they were both Urban quarterbacks, but the comparison ends there. And you may argue that Tebow is a “system quarterback” but McFadden wouldn’t have put up those stats if his team didn’t utterly suck. He wouldn’t have been a threat at quarterback (the whole 11 times he threw, yet people wanna brag about that) if the team had had a quarterback, and he wouldn’t have gotten the amount of the carries because they would have had a passing game. McFadden put up big numbers because he’s a great player, but also because his team out of the desperation had to use him so much.

    Tebow, on the other hand, had Keystahn Moore or Percy Harvin to give the ball to. His receivers weren’t great besides Harvin and Caldwell, but he’s such a good quarterback that he put up amazing numbers. He was at almost 70% completion, 29 touchdowns, 6 interceptions, and had more touchdown runs than McFadden. And before people say that Tebow’s rushing TDs were because they gave him the ball at the goal line, consider this: 14 of his 22 touchdowns were outside of 5 yards. Tebow deserves the Heisman.

  9. here’s the way I look at it, but I’m sure someone here will tell me I’m wrong. Feel free to do so. Tebow is a great player and he’s hard to stop because he is two dimensional. He can beat you with his feet and with his arm, again he’s a great player. Defenses have a hard time developing a game plan for someone like him. By far the most dangerous QB in college football.

    However, what makes McFadden the better player in my opinion is that defenses can develop a plan to stop him or attempt to stop him. They can pile 8 or 9 guys in the box and try to fill in the holes. What makes him so special is that even when they attempt that he still runs over people and finds/created holes to get through. LSU has one of the best run defenses in CF, but look at what he did against them. McFadden is probably the 3rd of 4th best RB we’ve ever seen. Both deserve the Heisman, but I think McFadden is clearly the most dominant player. Tnen again Im probably wrong

  10. I’m with you, csg. Tebow’s great, but McFadden is the most outstanding player in college football. Take the two off of their respective teams, and the dropoff at Arkansas would be much, much greater.

    That said, I expect Tebow to win because he’s ESPN’s horse.

  11. Tebow put up 50+ TDs in the SEC. He broke records this year. If he doesn’t get it, it’s because he’s a sophomore and even that “argument” is weak. McFadden had a great year and should have won last year, but this year, Tebow is the clear candidate.

  12. Yes, Tebow is a system quarterback. He wouldn’t be anything special if Florida weren’t running that ‘Give the quarterback the ball, and let him score loads of touchdowns’ system.

  13. Oh yeah, jjschiller? Every heard of Chris Leak? Same offense, Tebow is running it to perfection, because he’s an incredible player.

    Stu, I was disappointed a couple weeks ago when you said something to the tune of “substitute another quarterback into Tebow’s spot, and with his weapons, he’d put up incredible numbers.” If you think anyone could put up even close to Tebow’s numbers, you’re a fool. There’s a reason he’s set records this year.

  14. I know you have a big crush on Tebow, Rob, but there’s no need to call me a fool because I disagree with you. I don’t expect fans of the teams these guys play for to be rational in their analysis, anyway. It’s certainly arguable, but I think McFadden’s is the stronger argument. Without him, Arkansas doesn’t win any conference games. Without Tebow, Florida keeps on chugging.

  15. Mahay turns down arb, Braves get a sandwich.

    I think Tebow should win because he had a slightly better season. McFadden is gonna be a better NFL player & I like to watch him play more—at least I can root for him—but he had a couple lousy games & Tebow didn’t really have any.

    I mean, in his worst game (LSU) he was responsible for 3 TDs. The guy put up over 50 TDs in a pretty tough league. That still strikes me as amazing.

  16. In how many of Tebow’s games was he the only player the opposing defense had to worry about stopping?

    Tebow’s season was certainly amazing, but considering their respective situations, Run DMC’s was more amazing, IMO.

  17. Stu,
    I beg to differ.

    Florida has Percy Harvin & Arkansas has Felix Jones. Jones carried the ball twice as much as Harvin and gained twice as many yards.

    Oh, what the hell is wrong with me? Sticking up for Florida. I need an intervention.

  18. Florida also has Caldwell, Murphy, Ingram, and a good O-line. You’re right about me not giving Jones enough credit, but I still think having to gameplan around several guys—including threats in the passing game—opens up a lot more room/ease for Tebow to make plays than having one other threat with you on offense, as is the case for McFadden.

    The irony here is that I actually really like Tebow and don’t even hold it against him that he’s a Gator. I just think McFadden is more deserving of the award this year.

  19. In most games, the game plan was to stop Tebow exclusively. At halftime of the FSU game, a reporter asked Bobby Bowden how to stop Tebow and he replied, “If you find out, let me know.” It is almost impossible to stop Tim Tebow. However, it’s very possible to stop Darren McFadden, just ask Auburn, FIU, and Missisippi State, who all held McFadden under 100 yards rushing.

    Regardless of all this, it’s an unfair question. You don’t put up 59 points on Tennessee, 45 on Kentucky, 51 on South Carolina, and 45 on FSU with one person. Percy Harvin and Andre Caldwell (when he actually played; he missed 3 complete games and played sparingly against LSU) have both helped tremendously. But Tebow is the source of their running game, and is an incredible passer.

    Florida doesn’t beat Kentucky, South Carolina, or Mississippi without Tim Tebow. I guarantee it. Florida also gets even more blown by Auburn, LSU, and Georgia without Tebow. That’s six losses, man.

  20. Well, I’m not going to repeat myself anymore, so I’ll just say that I’ve already responded to that line of thinking.

  21. However, it’s very possible to stop Darren McFadden, just ask Auburn, FIU, and Missisippi State, who all held McFadden under 100 yards rushing.

    Nice straw man argument. Are you hillbilly Gator fans aware that Tebow is a QB and McFadden is RB? You’re comparing apples and potatoes.

    Central Michigan’s Dan LeFevour passed for 3K and rushed for 1K. Tebow didn’t. Maybe he should win the Heisman.

  22. So, our roster for next year looks something like this right now:

    2B Johnson
    SS Escobar
    3B C. Jones
    1B Teixiera
    C McCann
    RF Francoeur
    LF Diaz/B. Jones
    CF Anderson

    OF Diaz/B. Jones
    C Sammons
    UT Infante
    IF Aybar
    IF Prado

    Starting pitchers
    RHP Smoltz
    RHP Hudson
    LHP Glavine
    LHP James
    LHP Hampton

    RHP Soriano
    RHP Moylan
    LHP Ohman
    RHP Acosta
    LHP Ring
    RHP Bennett
    LHP Gonzalez (when he returns from injury)

  23. Stu,
    You mention these other Gator offensive threats, but isn’t it Tebow who’s getting them the ball?

    FYI—There aren’t so many hills in north Florida.

  24. I’m not sure I understand your point, ububba. Are you saying that those weapons aren’t helpful to him in amassing all those gaudy stats? If he had Arkansas’ receivers, would he have put up the same passing stats? If he had Arkansas’ receivers, would he have put up the same rushing stats?

    Put Dennis Dixon in that offense and it doesn’t miss a beat. And Dixon has roughly the same numbers. Heck, let McFadden play QB for the Gators and they still score a ton.

    Not another back in the country comes close to McFadden’s numbers if placed in that Arkansas offense.

  25. And yeah, there are plenty of rednecks in Florida, but you won’t find too many hillbillies. Those are all in Lexington and Knoxville.

  26. hey jeremy easy on the personal attacks on us gator fans. The argument was about who deserves the Heisman, not what type of fans we are. And if you are, maybe not use a term hillbilly, which like ububba pointed out, we dont have much of in any part of florida. I know most people hate Univ of Florida on this board, I read the comments everyday, but every school has obnoxious fans that give them a bad rap. And all the schools have great fans too.

  27. Tuberville had a good quote the other day – something like Tebow couldn’t have 20+ rushing TD’s if Meyer didn’t just run QB draws once they get inside the 5.

    If Meyer was like, well, 95% of other successful SEC coaches and valued a running back enough to use a decent one, McFadden wins the Heisman.

  28. 14 of Tebow’s 22 rushing TD’s came outside of 5 yards. I would imagine most running backs TD’s come from inside the 5 or so. Why is Tebow being called out on that.

    As long as an SEC guy wins I am happy- both are great talents. McFadden will be a stud in the NFL. Tebow has two more years to win one, but I still thinks he deserves it a little more than McFadden- when you set the record for rushing TD’s in a conference where both Bo AND Hershel came out, thats amazing.

  29. I root for UGA, can’t stand Florida, and think McFadden is the better player overall. But Tebow deserves the award. I’m actually shocked that arguments are being made in any other direction, though the anti-Florida bias of this board is intense.

    @40 – I like the bench and think the bullpen is ok (I expect Moylan to come back down to earth), but as I’ve been saying for weeks now, I don’t think the Braves are a playoff caliber team without a good CF and a legit #3 starter. I don’t think 85-87 wins gets it done next year, nor do I think we’re gonna see another 80+-win team take the Series for a long long time. Especially after Bedard and Santana get dealt to other AL clubs.

  30. I find the “only runs the ball inside the 5” thing hilarious. Off the top of my head, I can think of like 3 specific plays where he ran it in from between the 8 and 20. Also worth wondering: why does Meyer give Tebow the ball in short-yardage rather than a RB? Is it because Meyer doesn’t like RBs? Is it because he wants another blocker or something like that? Nope. It’s because Tebow is an AWESOME short-yardage runner. Don’t get me wrong, the man doesn’t do lateral stuff that well. But give him a straight line to run on and he’s among the best in NCAA football.

    So my point is, how can this possibly be held as a negative in the Heisman thing? He scores a lot (though according to Rob, “a lot” in this case means 8) of TDs because Meyer trusts him in short-yardage. Therefore… bad? Don’t get it.

    But anyway, I agree that he’s got a fantastic supporting cast and that he would have less room to do stuff without Harvin et al. But given that system, I’m not sure how you do much better than Tebow did this year. And if nothing else, shouldering the load the way Tebow did, in terms of just time he had the ball, is a pretty big accomplishment in and of itself. I think the TV guys were saying something like 70% of UF’s offense was Tebow. I don’t care who you’ve got around you, that’s impressive.

  31. Oh, and I’ll also add that Dixon would also excel in Meyer’s system (as someone pointed out), and he put up fantastic numbers in his on right until he got hurt. But I don’t see why that should take anything away from what Tebow did. I mean, we don’t say Steve Nash shouldn’t have won the MVPs because his game is built perfectly for the system he plays in. In fact, most view that as one of the big reasons he deserves his awards: the things he’s able to do are the things most critical for his team’s success.

  32. I didn’t say Tebow’s season wasn’t impressive.

    And nobody else could do what McFadden did in his system—that’s the point.

  33. But I don’t think anybody could have done what Tebow did either in his system- I seriously doubt Dixon could have run threw the line like Tebow did. Tebow could then fake a run, allowing his receivers to be so wide open. I realize we are comparing a QB to a RB but Tebow’s running ability allows some sort of common comparison between the two.

  34. I can deal with the anti-Florida bias on here. Stu’s a Vandy fan, and whether he wants to admit it or not, I’m sure he hates having his team getting beaten like a drum for the greater part of a couple decades. If Tim Tebow plays for Vanderbilt, Stu’s all about Tebow winning the Heisman. He can deny it, but it’s true.

    Tim Tebow deserves the Heisman, and I hope it gets it. I will say that if Darren McFadden does get it, I won’t lose much. Darren McFadden is an amazing player, and I think he should have won it last year (my team kinda proved that ;) ). If we can agree on anything, it’s that Tim Tebow, if he sticks around for 4 years, will indeed win the Heisman, whether it’s this year, next year, or in 2009.

  35. Put Dennis Dixon in that offense and it doesn’t miss a beat. And Dixon has roughly the same numbers. Heck, let McFadden play QB for the Gators and they still score a ton.

    I gotta respond to this though. Dennis Dixon is not the same runner Tim Tebow is. Tim Tebow destroys people. He runs right through him. I’ve seriously gotta ask this: do you actually watch Tim Tebow play? Half of his yards are after the first hit, and a lot of those are as he’s pushing people. Did you see him throw a defensive end off of him and scramble 23 yards for a touchdown against FSU. Earlier in that drive, he juked Gino Hayes out of his shoes (the same Gino Hayes who said he would put Tebow on his back; never did…) and got a first down running on a 3rd-and-16. Dennis Dixon would not do what Tim Tebow did because he just not strong enough.

    Also, Darren McFadden can’t throw! Have you watched him either? He had 11 passing attempts ALL YEAR! Everyone talks about him being equal with Tebow because he can play quarterback too. No he can’t! He cannot throw! He had six attempts last year, and he threw a pick. He’s Percy Harvin on steroids. He takes direct snaps and runs. That’s not a quarterback. Darren McFadden doesn’t put up the numbers Tebow does if you put him at quarterback, and they don’t score “a ton.” We’re making too much of McFadden here.

  36. Stu,
    My point is that Tebow has to deliver the ball accurately to these receivers. He did a great job of that this year—only 6 INTs. He also averaged more than 2 TD passes per game.

    When I add up what he did in the air and on the ground, I don’t really see any weaknesses. The guy is a freak, and I mean that in a good way.

    I’m not real receptive the all the hypothetical notions of “if he played for the other team,” etc. McFadden’s stats are his stats & Tebow’s stats are his stats. That’s how I judge them.

    In my mind, McFadden was most hurt by the Auburn game. I kept waiting for him to break out, he never did & his team lost.

    That said, if I have the first pick of the NFL draft, I gotta think about taking him. I know it’s really un-trendy to pick a RB that early, but he’s special.

  37. The Dolphins have a lot of problems. If Ronnie Brown comes back, running back is not one of them.

    Oh, and there’s every chance that the second pick in the draft will belong to the Patriots. Good times!

  38. I guess I’ll also add that I wouldn’t think it a travesty or anything if McFadden won. He deserved it last year, and he’s had some incredible performances this year. He’s deserving, I just think Tebow deserves it more. :-)

  39. It wouldn’t really be fair if McFadden didn’t win last year because they won’t give the award to a sophomore, and doesn’t win this year because suddenly it’s okay to give the award to a sophomore.

  40. I agree with mraver. While I argue and argue for Tebow’s right to this year’s Heisman, McFadden is still a great player and I wouldn’t be that disappointed.

  41. If Tebow played for my team, I’d want him to win, sure, but I would hope my ability to rationally determine who’s most deserving of the award wouldn’t be compromised. And Rob, let me assure you that the University of Florida gives me nothing to be jealous of.


    I guess I have trouble calling someone the most outstanding player in college football without considering the context in which he puts up his numbers. If you just looked at stats, I think the game’s most outstanding player would almost never win the award.

  42. Did you see the group of past winners they trotted out at the presentation? “Danny Wuerffel… Chris Weinke… Eric Crouch… Jason White.” I was expecting all four finalists to stand up and say, “That’s alright, I don’t need this award, give it to Dennis Dixon.”

    Gino Torretta has not aged well. He looks like Vinny Testaverde’s father.

  43. I could never see Colt Brennan’s Heisman candidacy given that Texas Tech’s Graham Harrell put up more yards and TDs, with a higher completion percentage, in a superior league to the WAC.

    I would parrot ububba’s remarks on Tebow vs. McFadden, and maybe share some of Rob’s disbelief in Tebow doubters (not necessarily anyone here).

    It’s done now though. So…

    CF Josh Hamilton.. still available. Clean and mashin’

  44. Torretta aged a lot on January 1, 1993.

    I’m sure the nightmares of that evening have taken their toll.

  45. That’s a possibility. The other possibility is that the reason Vinny Testaverde keeps playing and never seems to age is that he’s somehow transferred all the punishment onto Torretta.

  46. unbelievable that testaverde is still playing (which is unbelievable in its own right) and those past heisman winners don’t have jobs as nfl qbs.

  47. since i’ve been at the u. of wisc i’ve taken a rooting interest in the brewers. they’re supposedly working on a 1 year 10million dollar deal with Gagne.

    umm… what?

    they couldn’t find a more constructive use of $10 million? for instance — if they put that towards their concessions profits so they could lower the price of the brats (even though they do have reasonably priced concessions compared to many parks) then i’d promise i’d buy more.

    couldn’t they put that money towards a deal for rolen? i don’t think that’s necessarily the right move either, but it’d be a better one.

    oh well. go braves.

  48. Colt Brennan being named a finalist was a little odd to me too. I thought that Graham Herrell, Pat White, or even Dennis Dixon were better choices. I suppose the unbeaten thing got him in.

    I am biased on this on so many levels (as a Christian, as an evangelical Christian, as a Baptist, as a Gator fan, as a Gainesville native), but I thought Tebow was really classy in his speech. An amazing orator he is not (he seemed really nervous; how many times did he say he was thankful to be a Gator?), but he is incredibly humble about his success. I’m sure this is the same for every successful athlete, but around Gainesville he is absolutely worshipped. My brother was his waiter at Sonny’s and said that 4 different tables offered to pick up his check, and yet my brother said he paid his own check and tipped my brother pretty well too. His personal Facebook has pictures of him with his family, pictures of himself in the Phillippines, and other personal stuff, and his wall is flooded with praise from people. I think he takes it really well, and no one seems to have a bad thing to say about him.

    Alright, enough Tebow blather, but I’m just impressed with his personal character as well as his talent, and I honestly can’t say that about a lot of athletes I really enjoy.

  49. In all honsety, Colt Brennan should’ve recieved more attention last year. This year (IMO) was kind of a make-up deal. His season last year was unbeleiveable. He threw for like 5000 years or something crazy like that.

  50. Congrats Rob and all Gator fans. I suggest Mac’s point at #58 is still valid, though.

    As someone with a short attention span…

    Knowshon Moreno will be your 2008 Heisman winner. C-O-U-N-T I-T!!!!

  51. Ya think so, urlhix? Definitely possible. The Florida-Georgia game next year may not only have national title implications, but the winner may become the front runner for the Heisman. I wonder who the finalists will be next year…

  52. Bob Ryan mentioned Knowshon as his Heisman pick for 2008 on Friday’s PTI. Ryan earlier mentioned that he had grown up a stone’s throw from Piscataway, so maybe he has a little Jersey pride going there, but Knowshon is the real deal.

    I knew right away that McFadden was a good one and I felt the same thing watching Knowshon, though I like McFadden a touch more.

  53. Couldn’t sleep last night.
    I watched “The Picture of Gino Torretta” on the Chiller Channel while eating spicy food.
    I wasn’t scared, really, it was just…unease.
    It’s only a movie.

  54. I believe Prado was added to the 40-man roster prior to the 2006 season, which means he has one more season of options remaining.

    Is there a resource out there somewhere that shows 40-man roster transactions?

  55. Oh, regarding the Braves roster posted earlier… I agree, but add Thorman and subtract one of Aybar/Prado. Who knows. Maybe Thor figures something out this year. Or gets traded. :-o

  56. I would have voted for Mike Hampton for least valuable brave. Whenever I see is $15 million salary, I want to throw up.

  57. I think it’d be funny if they added salary to the equation of MVP. Or they could provide a ‘bets bang for the buck’ award. All of this assumed, of course, that there is an equation at all, instead of RBI and Runs scored or whatever the hell got Jimmy Rollins the NL MVP.

  58. “whatever the hell got Jimmy Rollins the NL MVP.”

    I believe the answer is “we’re the team to beat”…

  59. I don’t know about that, Sam. Hampton’s salary has definitely hurt the Braves the past 2 years.

  60. I saw a humorous tidbit in the paper the other day that the Yankees were considering Chris Woodward for a minor-league contract.

    Does he have “the pictures” of Brian Cashman, too?

  61. Here’s a cool thing that you can do on Baseball Musings: runs-per-game predictions based on a lineup! You’ve got to predict the players’ OBA and SLG, and it certainly doesn’t account for everything, but it’s a fun tool.

    Here’s what I got when I did the Braves for next year:


    Based on that, we’ll have above-average offensive production even if we have a pretty poor-hitting CF. I predicted a decent-sized regression from Escobar, a small one for KJ, a bounce-back for BMac (basically, same numbers but he hits .300), more power but same OBA for Frenchy, and small regressions towards their career numbers for Chip and Tex. Based on his recent numbers, I’ve probably sold Diaz a bit short, but conservative estimates are good since he’ll be platooning with Jones, and we’re not sure what we’ll get from him in his first year.

    But yeah. 5.5 runs per game with our “best” lineup, 5.2 with our “worst”. So figure about 5.4.

  62. braves14,

    No worse than Woodward’s AB’s last year. If I remember right, we got one good year of Hampton, some time in the distant past. I think the general consensus is, if we have Woodward around any longer, it’s somehow worse. At least when he’s healthy, Hampton can hit.

    Ha, Hampton has more “upside”.

    He does just as much on the DL for us as Woodward does from the bench i.e. absolutly nothing. Sure, Hampton’s DL salary is suckage plus 5, but that was a risk the Braves took when we signed him. That could happen to anybody, in theory. All Woodward had to do was something good…perhaps that will teach Frank Wren NOT to sign former Mets…oh, damn…we signed Glavine…bummer.


  63. @94,


    Because you have to win 3 playoff games in Round 1 to have a chance at 4, then win 4 more (total of 7) to have a chance at 11, then 4 more is the maximum, EVEN IF Rollins thinks the Phillies will win 100 counting post-season, he is fairly optimistic on the regular season (89 wins?).

  64. They probably did make the most significant upgrade to their rotation in the division…with Lidge on board, Myers goes back into the rotation with Hamels and Kendrick. That’s not bad.

  65. That was the thing about the Lidge signing: it was basically two deals in one. They land a closer, and in the process, add a starting pitcher. I didn’t like that deal. :)

  66. Dustin, Hampton not only hasn’t done anything for 2 and a half years, but his salary has handcuffed the Braves for the same amount of time. Woodward .199 average at least didn’t cost much.

  67. Oh, I know the insurance paid for like half of it, but it’s still had a big negative effect.

  68. The poll was “Least Valuable Brave”. I didn’t include Hampton because he’s just a guy who occasionally wears a uniform, not someone who plays baseball.

  69. So you think the lack of signing better players because of less money didn’t cost us any games?

  70. Hampton is up there, but we forget Andruw. I think when you consider “Least Valuable,” you have to consider the expectations of the person too. Andruw’s role is to be a run producer, and he failed at that role. Hampton, though, I think wins on for a couple reasons:

    1) His absence created a hole in the starting rotation that we never recovered from.
    2) His salary prevented us from being to able to fully compete at the level our payroll level allows us too.

  71. braves14,

    I could care less if Andruw was a Brave or not. Hampton never had much of an injury history until 2005 and it was just plain bad luck. Get over it.

  72. This is my position and I’m sticking to it. I don’t care if it’s illogical, and I don’t care if I’m going to get lambasted. I’m not going to whale on Hampton just because of bad circumstances.

  73. Hampton’s inability to pitch has hurt us tremendously. I don’t think many of us (if any) are saying it’s Hampton’s fault. He didn’t injury himself on a motorcycle or playing pick-up basketball. He hurt himself playing baseball. It’s not whaling on him to see that his absence in our rotation has been a huge source of our problems. And you may not care if Andruw was a Brave or not, but if Hampton’s contract prevented us from signing a big name FA pitcher or hitter in the past 3 offseasons, then you should care.

  74. So take that, guys.

    * * *

    Hampton has clearly been the team’s LVP, for all of the above-mentioned reasons.

  75. @108

    It’s hard to argue with someone who doesn’t follow logic.

    I don’t think anyone has personal issues with Mike Hampton. His injuries are unfortunate/ unlucky, but I’ve never heard anyone question his desire.

    However, in as much as someone could be valuable to the braves last season, he wasn’t. This at least to me, is the definition of an LVP.

  76. I don’t want to call him the reason the Braves are failing. I don’t want to say that because of him they can’t get the players they need to succeed. I’m trying to avoid that altogether if it’s even possible. Call me an illogical nut if you wish, but this is the way I’m looking at it. I’m not going to change.

  77. If you’re gonna be the Least Valuable Player, doesn’t that imply that you actually played??

    If it includes folks who didn’t play, then OBVIOUSLY Hampton is LV, since he contributed 0 to the team. I mean Mark Redman at least got someone out.

    So, my vote for LVP (Redman, btw) is based on someone who appeared in a game for the Braves, as opposed to sitting out the year on IR.

  78. But doesn’t it stand that some players actually hurt the team more by playing than not playing at all? Isn’t that possible?

  79. Yes, Sam, Chris Woodward proves that theory.

    Mark Redman as well, even though he pitched one decent game that we lost.

    My take is, if Hampton plays, we win more games, if Woodward plays, his presence either doesn’t matter at best or takes at bats from better players at worst.

    Of course you factor in that Hampton pitches, so every fifth day, his play matters. But Woodward would, as a position player, get more AB’s therefore more oppurtunities to stink up the joint.

    So, it’s actually worse to have Chris Woodward on the roster delivering major suck, than Hampton simply on the DL contributing nothing bad OR good.

    If Hampton’s not there, he can conribute no losing efforts, while Chris Woodward, can ONLY contribute defeat and utter Met-itude.

    That just might make sense.

  80. That’s what I think, but apparently his astronomical payroll-choking salary makes him an exception to everyone else up there.

  81. Oh God, I had already forgotten about Redman. Thanks for bringing him back to memory. Definately my LVP.

  82. Redman wasn’t around for long enough to be the LVP. If it can’t be Hampton, and Andruw contributed just enough to not be either, Woodward “wins” over Redman.

  83. Mark Redman was directly because of Mike Hampton’s injury. It was Mark Redman because the Braves couldn’t afford anything better.

  84. @120

    I’m sorry but you can’t say ‘Mark Redman because of Mike Hampton.”

    Mark Redman because of Mark Redman. Redman still had to go out there and suck. And Cormier still had to get hurt in spring training.

    The team focused on the bullpen at the expense of the starting rotation. By the time Hampton got hurt, it wasn’t a matter of what we could ‘AFFORD.’ It was a matter of what was available.

    The club should have had more depth, like we have this year.

    And you guys are calling Sam illogical…

  85. @124

    The Braves would have tried to acquire a #3 starter last offseason before Spring Training rather than counting on Hampton if they had the money.

  86. I guess all this hoopla proves, that like who is the hottest lingerie model, Least Valuable is in the eye of the beholder.

  87. Aside from Seat Painter’s “you have to play to be an LVP” argument, I honestly don’t even understand how anyone could not consider it to be Hampton.

  88. Talking about the Heisman, it is a bullshit award anyways, who cares?! If Peyton Manning didn’t win it then fuck it.

    That’s how I feel.

  89. Anyone else on here want to join my Yahoo! NCAA Football Bowl Pick ‘Em league?

    It’s a free standard league. Enjoy.

    Group ID# 11745
    password: kutztown

  90. The Heisman isn’t for the best college football player, it’s for the best RB or QB. (Charles Woodson was the exception that proves the rule.) I can’t get too worked up over it one way or the other but I sort of feel for McFadden finishing second two years in a row. Oh well, he will make up for it with his signing bonus in the NFL.

    On another note, I got my Hardball Times Annual over the weekend and it has some interesting tidbits about the Braves. Chipper led the majors in what they call GPA, which is a supposedly more advanced version of OPS. His GPA was .346; Francouer’s was .266. On the other hand, not surprisingly given his problems hitting from the right side, Chipper had the largest negative split between lefty and righty pitchers. Francouer was 8th in number of outs made but he was the only one in the top ten that was also not in the top ten in plate appearances. He was also in the top ten in singles and was fifth in BA with RISP. So, I guess you could say that Frenchy made a lot of outs, had little power, but hit well in the clutch. Make of that what you will.

    In pitching, Smoltz had an amazing year, finishing in the top ten in all the pitching categories that HT uses. James’ ERA was 4.24 but his FIP (I’m just learning what this stuff means) was over 5, which suggests his results were actually better than his pitching.

    Also, based on Pygathorean theory, the Braves have significantly underperformed the last two years, -5 this year (no surprise there). Andruw’s bad year cost them 3.5 games.

  91. @109

    Nope, still don’t care. I don’t want to buy into any “what ifs”. That’s what everyone is so upset about with Hampton: the unknown. What would have happened if we had never traded for him in the first place? Well, la dee da. That doesn’t do anyone any good to pine for a Braves world without Mike Hampton, because we don’t know what could happen if we had someone different. The Braves could have won the World Series. The Braves could have flamed out in the first round like always. An injury could befall the Braves’ new Free Agent X and we’d be just as worse for the wear.

    That’s why I refuse to buy into any of this “Mike Hampton is Least Valuable Player” business.

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