Stupid bullpen.
I’m going to do a list now. The three most exciting baseball players I have seen in my lifetime:
1. Ozzie Smith
2. Rickey Henderson
3. Ichiro
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Stupid bullpen.
I’m going to do a list now. The three most exciting baseball players I have seen in my lifetime:
1. Ozzie Smith
2. Rickey Henderson
3. Ichiro
Use code “Journal” for a 5% discount.
Yeah stupid bullpen but Bobby has to handle them better too. How many times is he going to bring in Soriano to blow a game in the 8th inning before he realizes enough is enough?
i’m gonna shoulder the blame for this loss. last night i decided to got to a different pub to watch the game and this is what i get. it won’t happen again…and when the hell is bobby gonna DL Soriano?
let’s go get’em tonight.
GO BRAVES!
I wanted to thank Alex for this gem from last night:
I just threw a book across the room.
In a time of great sorrow, this mental image brightened my night. Good to know there are people out there suffering with me.
Oh my, did you guys not see where that ball was when Alou hit it, that ball was so far inside it was off the plate. That was just a good, mostly fluke, job of hitting an inside pitch. It was not a mistake from Soriano, so you need to quit blaming him, and give Alou a little credit.
In fairness to Bobby, Soriano had been pitching well in tie games. It seems strange but, in general, he was struggling more when he had the lead. No more.
As for the comment in a previous thread about Dotel, are we going to simply give up on him after two appearances?
In addition to the bullpen problems, this game just continues a pattern that has occurred over the last several weeks of being unable to score runs late in games. Early in the season, the Braves were doing a lot of scoring after the seventh innning, but that has pretty much disappeared.
Beedee, I will let you take the blame. Now, I can start wearing my Braves hat again. I had been wearing my Nats hat b/c the Braves were losing when I wore the Braves hat and seemed to win when I wore the Washington hat. Maybe winning and losing isn’t connected to what hat I wear?
You guys in NY, you have my respect. I thought it was bad when I went to Philly in 1993 for the playoff game and the Braves lost but I couldn’t imagine openly rooting for the Braves at Shea Stadium.
I agree, Marc. Honestly, as frustrating as some of these blown leads are, the most frustrating thing to me is how our offense just seems to die late in games.
Josh is right about Soriano’s pitch to Alou, and if Smurph or Andruw had come through, we’d have won that game.
Justin: that’s not what I saw. McCann was set up low and outside and the pitch was belt high and had a lot of the plate. You could see Brian reaching across his body to try to catch it then beating the ground in frustration.
Justin,
Alou deserves credit but it’s really hard to say if it was a good pitch or not. I doubt you would intentionally throw a pitch up and in late in a tied game unless you were Randy Johnson. Don Sutton always used to say (and I think he knows a lot about pitching) to never get beat inside in that situation.
Wow…Every loss has been gut-wrenching lately, but this one is #1.
Ok. Who was that guy bringing up AJ OPS for July and August the other day? Well you know what you can do with that OPS. Please DL this guy or start Diaz…he is offering NOTHING. Meanwhile the once Andrum-like slumping Pat Burrell is on FIRE!!
Frency had been doing well all year w/o trying to hit a homer, just going the other way…then of all nights he reverts back to 2006.
Bobby. Bobby. Bobby. His bullpen management is beyond deplorable. When Moylan was warming up, I just knew he was coming in…but you bring in Mahay, and then Soriano in the 8th??
Go get Huddy, b/c with Howard red-hot, Burrell red-hot with the bottom end of the rotation going in Philly….well I’ll just think positive. Mercy
And I said Josh but meant Justin Parker.
Marc’s point about not getting beat inside is a fair one, though. On 0-2, pitches should be hitting the dirt or above the shoulders.
I don’t know who to blame. We need to win today to help me just forget about this game completely.
Alright, I was wondering why I felt so lonely this morning. I didn’t expect a thread so soon. This is in response to a post of Marc’s on the previous thread.
I couldn’t even finish your post Marc. At least you admitted that you are a pessimist. Some of what you say may be true. We are/have been essentially a .500 team. I just disagree that the season is over with a loss tonight. If we lost tonight and were 2.5 games back of the Mets, you wouldn’t say the season was over. Yet if we lose tonight, the worst we can be is 2.5 back of San Diego for the wild card. I say anyone with the above mentality needs to take a step back from the ledge. Last year sucked so bad as a fan. I am excited even this morning (after last nights loss) at the race to the finish this season.
I guess you guys just want to blame Soriano, so I give up.
@ #3
Alex throwing a book amuses me as well.
I ran outside and vomited.
No lie.
Andruw literally made me puke.
I think we should call up Smitty from the minors and put Andruw on the DL. He could have at least hit a squibber that scored 1 in the 9th.
The point is, Justin, that even if it wasn’t necessarily a bad pitch, it’s a dangerous location at that point in the game. Home runs do get hit on high inside pitches unless they are perfectly located. But, yes, it’s bad luck too. When things are going bad for a pitcher, those pitches get hit and when they are going well, they don’t. Soriano really isn’t pitching that badly, he just seems to always throw one pitch that gets crushed. Maybe his karma is bad.
Josh,
What bothers me is that it is hard to make a run if you don’t win some close games. And the more of these you lose, the harder it is to win them. I have to believe that the Braves are waiting for bad things to happen in these games. I think that has a lot to do with the lack of hitting in late innings; everyone wants to hit a home run instead of just trying to put together a rally. Francoeur was obviously trying to go deep.
Josh, I think you’re forgetting something. Smitty doesn’t have “veteran leadership.”
Not that it matters (indeed it is probably a good thing) but someone on the last thread said Cormier isn’t with the team. Why not or where is he? I thought he got skipped in the rotation (with a reappearance scheduled for the Philly series) but didn’t know he was gone.
You said it Marc…
Frenchy was trying to go deep. I use to say the 3 dumbest hitters were Marcus Giles, AJ and Francouer. Well we see what Giles and AJ are doing this year. But Frenchy up until last night was going to right and liking it. All of a sudden he wants to hit a grand slam…off Billy Wagner no less.
Was anybody else beside me wishing Escobar was batting 7th instead of AJ? I would have loved to see what he could have done against Wagner.
I touched on this a few weeks ago, but Soriano very basically only has one pitch. He has a cannon, he even touched 100mph earlier this year (before Bobby killed his arm). But from my observations, guys that can throw 100mph usually throw the ball with very little movement. Major League hitters can catch up to that, not even mentioning that he wasn’t throwing that hard last night.
Tired arm, lack of a good second pitch, bad location, not changing speeds, and blah blah blah, that is Sorianos problem. You can’t survive in the majors with one pitch, you’ll get bombed, just like Soriano has been.
The other problem is Bobby running him out there every night and getting the same bad results every time.
Tony,
In fairness to Frency (and I have been tough on him), he is a young guy and probably got caught up in the moment. I guess that supports the idea that the quality of an at-bat can vary depending on the situation. But, as I said, I think it was partly motivated by the desire to get a substantial lead out of fear that the bullpen would blow the game again. I don’t think the hitters trust the bullpen to hold a small lead. But, also, you have to give Wagner some credit too. He’s a hell of a pitcher; it’s not like they were hitting off Chris Reitsma.
it’s not like they were hitting off Chris Reitsma.
FUNNY BUT PAINFUL
Good thing today’s game starts at 12:10….can forget about that sh*t that happen last night. Bobby, AJ wants to rest his elbow.
Soriano’s spent. The only thing not perdictable about the homer was that it was a solo shot.
What surprised me was why Bobby went with Mahay with 2 on in the 7th instead of Moylan who was warming up as well and ended up coming in anyway? Moylan’s our best double play guy right now. Then after using him for one batter why didn’t he leave him in? (I don’t remember the pitchers spot was due up the next inning)
Last but not least. Boomer says he wants to catch on with another contending team after getting DFA’ed.
Buy or sell Boomer over Cormier?
I thought Francoeur could at least get one run it to tie the game. I wish he would have been a little more paitient, since Wagner had just given up a 5-pitch walk to a guy who was trying to bunt. I agree with Mac, the DP felt inevitible once Andruw came up.
Boomer’s erratic, but I’d take a chance on him over Cormier.
I don’t think Boomer has much left but I would take a shot–what do you have to lose? Cormier is not likely to be the answer.
That was my bad on Cormier. I forgot he was called up because he was subsequently skipped in the rotation.
Jose Reyes is missing from your list.
Cormier can’t be much worse than Boomer has already been. I’ll pass on David Wells.
In terms of excitement, Jose Reyes isn’t close to those 3, Bobby V. As a Mets fan, you should understand how bad Steve Phillips’ judgment is—why would you start trusting it now?
Very interesting article from David Gassko over at THT:
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/historical-hitting-by-position/
Ichiro is my fave, has been since he joined the league. He’s such a freak.
Does his weird stretches before each AB, runs halfway down the line with each swing, fast as a bullet, has a cannon for an arm.
Every year since he’s joined the league, I’ve made sure I had Mariners tix when they come to town. Love to see him at least once a year.
Marc,
Rooting for the Braves at Shea isn’t such a big deal. When the Braves lose, leaving the stadium is a real death march. But during the game, it’s usually fine. Same thing at Yankee Stadium.
But, of course, I’ve lived here since 1990, so I’ve developed thicker skin than most.
That article is a little off….WHO HAS BEEN CRITICIZING BRIAN MCCANN ALL SEASON?
Unfortunately, I pretty much agree with all the pessimism in Marc Schneider’s earlier post. But I’m a self-admitted gloom-and-doomer.
But one thing that nobody has mentioned (I think) is Castillo’s “hit.” Mahay completely sawed the bat off, but the ball still fell into no man’s land behind second. I find it hard to blame Mahay for that.
This team doesn’t often win close, low-scoring games–something the Braves of old did with regularity. It’s hard to make the playoffs with that profile.
I’m going to make sure I’m busy doing something else besides watching TV or checking the Internet this afternoon. I need a break from this gut-wrenching grind.
You know who’s more exciting the Jose Reyes? Hanley Ramirez.
Jose Reyes is a pretty exciting player. I don’t see how you can deny that. He steals bases, hits triples. I hate it when he does it against the Braves but you can’t deny he is an exciting player. As for Ichiro, I hardly see him so to say he is one of the most exciting players in the game is a bit much.
Marc,
I don’t know that anybody’s denying that Jose’s exciting. He’s just not in the class of the 3 Mac listed.
Tony,
Plenty of people. People on here. I’ve had conversations about it with friends and I’m sure I’m not alone. I remember Keith Law writing something about him. I think there’s been a piece on THT about him already this year, too. It’s hard to deny that he’s having a less-than-everyone-expected season.
I’m just shocked that you chose to take a contrary stance, though. That seems so unlike you. I’d be willing to bet a good amount of money—maybe even as much as you make in a day at your job, as you like to so frequently reference—that you read until you found something you could argue with and then stopped. That article is about statistics, anyway, so I’m sure you wouldn’t be interested.
One thought. Watching Bobby’s overuse of his bullpen all year, and knowing other teams are having the same problems (i.e. the Dodgers), perhaps it’s time to seriously consider expanding the rosters to 26 players. This comes from an admitted traditionalist in most matters baseball.
Interesting, bmac44.
I’m a traditionalist myself, and my first inclination is to say, “No, let’s just create incentives in the minor leagues to start developing more stamina for starters.” That would be ideal, but the fact is something like that is unlikely, and the overuse is probably beginning to seriously affect these guys’ careers (see: Chris Reitsma).
Of course, your proposal is, I’d guess, equally unlikely, but it’s certainly worth discussing, IMO.
You’re right Stu, my proposal is unlikely as it would be a major bone of contention between the owners and the player’s association, but I think it’s time to give it some serious consideration.
I really don’t see how you can put Ozzie Smith above Reyes. He was a great shortstop but I wouldn’t call him exciting. I certainly don’t see how you could put him above Ricky Henderson. If those are the choices, I would definitely put Reyes in there before Ozzie.
I will say this about Reyes though. Why do the ESPN announcers feel compelled to make everything he does sound like the greatest play in baseball history? Last night, Escobar hit a ground ball in the hole and Reyes threw him out. It was a nice play but essentially one any big league shortstop ought to make. From the way the announcers described the play, you would have thought it was the second coming of Ozzie. He isn’t the only player they do that with. It’s as if they have no idea of what a big leaguer is supposed to do.
Well, I wouldn’t put Ozzie at the top of my list, either, but he’d be ahead of Reyes. (I am legitimately excited by great defense.) I guess what “excites” me are truly unique players. Reyes is good, but we’ve seen Reyes in other forms before. We’ve never really seen the 3 guys Mac lists before or since.
Nothing was more gloomy than last night’s horror show or Andruw Jones’s incompetence at the plate, but if the Braves can pull one out today, it will still be a nice series win with another extremely important series coming up.
I would think the players would love a 26th roster spot. There’s nothing really traditionalist about the number. It has varied over the years; I believe in the 1920s it was less than 25. I think bmac’s proposal is sound given the different use of pitchers. The owners, of course, would resist because it would involve more money, although it couldn’t be much more since the 26th player would presumably not be making much.
Would the rosters expand to 41 and 61?
And, I’m sorry, but if it’s been a 25-man roster since the 1920s, that’s something of a tradition.
I know it is trite but I put Bo Jackson at the top of my list of exciting baseball players. I think I would have watched Bo Jackson drop a deuce back in his heyday, actually.
The roster being 25 men is not the problem with the tired bullpen. Our 3rd starter can’t go more than 5 innings and our 4/5th starters are unpredictable a lot of the time.
Also, I find it interesting that Tony didn’t send in a rebuttal to Stu’s earlier response.
Stu…
What would my day be like without Stu “letting me have it”. Sure B-Mac is having a subpar season or worse than last year. But with the issues the Braves had at 1st base, centerfield, the lack of power from the corner outfield positions, the bullpen, 3 thru 5 in the starting rotation…critizing B-Mac was/is sort of low on my list.
“I’d be willing to bet a good amount of money—maybe even as much as you make in a day at your job, as you like to so frequently reference”
So frequently reference? Huh? I don’t think I have ever mentioned my salary…wait I know I haven’t. Damn Stu…you are good.
Josh Q,
Give me time I am at work…
JoshQ,
The timing here is too funny.
Tony,
The issue wasn’t whether McCann should be criticized but whether he has been. That’s what was referenced in the article and even by you @33.
And you reference the fact that you make money—yesterday, for example, or when you insulted someone for being a teacher—with a lot more frequency than anybody else here does. I didn’t say you reference your actual salary.
McCann’s “falloff” was probably predictable. I don’t think you could reasonably expect him to hit .330 again playing catcher in the South. Mauer gets to play in air conditioning half the year. McCann is probably more typically a .280-.290 hitter with significant power. He’s not that far off considering the injuries. His defense is more disturbing but I suspect that is also a function, at least in part, of his injuries.
The reference yesterday was something like, another great money making day for me. I don’t think that would even get noticed if a majority of the posters here said it, but your general propensity to stir things up around here made it stick out.
I also must say that my timing is impeccable this morning.
Stu…
WHOA!! Before you start typing out of your ass, you need to reread yesterday’s post.
When have I ever referenced my salary on here? I think you have me confused with someone else. Now I have defended Escobar, question the hatred of Bonds, teased the stats brigade, etc., but I have never been critical of someone being a teacher? I’m calling you out on that one…if you can find that post from yesterday where I criticized someone for being a teacher then you got me…if not then I think you need to take a nap or something. What is wrong with you…lol
Marc…
Thanks Marc…for reminding of that comment on my way out the door. Geez, if people took that as me saying I make a lot of money…then I don’t know what to say.
If the Braves need more relief pitching, they can simply drop deadweights like Woodward from the roster in favor of another reliever. No need for a 26th player. You could get Smoltz or Hudson to pinch hit on days they don’t start and get about the same results Woodward gives and replace Corky Miller with Brayan Pena so you’d have somebody capable of playing multiple defensive positions.
Sorry that was Josh Q…not Marc
JoshQ,
Well, is it my “general propensity to stir things up around here” that made it stick out, or is it that I wouldn’t have even noticed “if a majority of the posters on here said it”? You contradict yourself.
With that said, it’s the second that’s true. I wouldn’t have noticed, because, for one, nobody else says that, and secondly, Tony has made reference to his own moneymaking (for example, the teacher thing) before.
I’ve certainly gotten into my fair share of arguments on here, but I don’t think characterizing me as one who likes to stir things up is accurate or fair at all. It’s ironic that I’m accused of this (1) in an argument with Tony, of all people, and (2) by someone who wasn’t even in the argument. The “stirring things up” label would better be applied to either of you.
Tony,
I suggest you search the archives for “Game Thread: July 18, Cardinals at Braves”.
No Stu…I’m not searching the game thread from July 18th…
If you think I’m going back and search soemthing that I wrote 21 days ago…then you really have too much time on your hands.
My 2 cents:
Andruw should NOT go to the DL, and he should play every day. We have a strong enough lineup to deal with his ineptitude (as long as he hits down in the order like last night). I would say that I would have pinch hit for him last night, however. I just think we forget about his defense at times. We REALLY need his presense in the outfield – he takes away alot of hits.
The problem, Joshua, is that once you decide to play him, you just can’t pinch-hit for him in a late-game situation like that. This is Andruw Jones. Yes, he’s been awful, but he’s still an iconic-type player. It could be a serious clubhouse problem if you were to do something like that. “We trust him enough to play, but not when it counts.” I just don’t see how Bobby could go there.
Much better to either not play him or disable him, IMO.
I agree with Stu; it is all or nothing with Druw. Either sit him down or allow him to hit in “clutch” situations. Since he has played with this injury throughout the year, I’m sure he will continue to play injured and doesn’t want a DL stint to further compromise his impending free agency.
Joshua,
Just being the devil’s advocate…he didn’t take any hits away last night. And him batting down in the order still cost us the game.
Stu,
You are too funny. I just read what I wrote to Ryan b/c he had calculated how many words I had typed that day on bravesjournal…and here is the quote:
“A high school teacher…what you need to borrow some money or something? Is that why you are keeping up with the number of words I have typed on this website in the last 8 hours? Lol you kids are hilarious”.
You remember that Stu…you are starting to scare me.
Andruw’s numbers for July look like his old self: .263/.370/.566/.935. He’s been bad so far in August. I’m not sure whether that’s because it’s taking him a while to recover from the cortisone shot or his arm is just hurting more than it did in July. I’m not sure the team would be any better with Harris in CF and Thorman as the lefthanded half of the leftfielder platoon. Unless you feel confident Brandon Jones would immediately be able to hit major league pitching, there’s probably nothing to be done but just let Andruw try to work his way out of his recent slump.
“Recent slump” Haha. That’s funny.
I would take the bad Andruw anyday over Thorman in a left field platoon.
Anyone else agree with me that today is about as close as you’ll come to a must-win game in August?
Indeed, Tony. I have opinions about the various people who post on this site. I base these opinions on what they’ve said. I remember both my opinions, always subject to modification, and the bases therefor (the statements).
If it creeps you out that I remember the things you’ve said in the past, I think it says a lot more about you than it does about me.
I do, Wryn. As I actually mentioned to Alex earlier today, there’s a strong chance that my confidence level in Hudson going forward will be almost entirely based on what he does today.
There was a time, in the eighties I think, when the owners briefly, unilaterally, and voluntarily, used 24 players. It didn’t last very long. Similarly, there was a proposal on the table a couple of rounds of CBA negotiations back to go from 25 to 28 men if the players would agree to ditch the DH.
Bill James has argued that 25 is really too many players, that if you allow a roster that big there are too many specialists and not enough complete players. I can see his point, but the problem now is the giant bullpens — there are almost no playing specialists anymore.
Wryn, I agree that it’s a must win if the Braves hope to win the division. I don’t see this team having the will or ability to come back from 5.5 games at this point. The wild card is still very much a possibility if they lose today, but I would be shocked if they lose today then end up winning the division.
Does Harris EVER swing at the first pitch from the leadoff?
Contract a few teams then the quality of the 24th and 25th men on the remaining teams’ rosters would increase and they wouldn’t need to have an expanded roster.
I’m not as good as Cormier 🙁
“I don’t think that would even get noticed if a majority of the posters here said it, but your general propensity to stir things up around here made it stick out.”
That was directed at Tony not Stu. Jeez!!! It was just a word of warning to him as to why I think it was even brought up.
Well Boomer you might be crap, but at least you could be crap for more than 3-5 innings.
i’m not over last night yet. i just talked about it with the bus driver for 20 minutes on the way home from school (there are some older braves fans around wisconsin from the milwaukee days)… but i don’t really want to relive it with chip. please just stop talking about it.
and let’s not have any drama… score 45 runs and move on down 95.
“If it creeps you out that I remember the things you’ve said in the past, I think it says a lot more about you than it does about me.”
I think it says that I don’t take this too seriously as you do. I mean I have an idea of what people think about certain situations, but quotes from 21 days ago…don’t think so.
Anyway, which website will I follow the game on?
Josh Q
I was going to tell Stu that was for me, but I thought I would let you do it…lol
I just received an email from my Mets friend with the subject heading “Pedro”.
Here is the text of the email:
“He gave up a homer last night to someone named Deik Scram.
Yikes.”
The gameday link on http://www.atlantabraves.com is pretty nice. That’s what I’m watching at work. 😉
Tony,
Yeah, I had to respond because I got my … chewed for it.
Well, I’m taking an early lunch and to watch some of the game. See you all later.
Damn. Why does it seem like Reyes never makes an out vs the Braves?
even when reyes gets a weak swing on a good pitch, they can’t keep him off the bases…
JoshQ,
Very sorry. No hard feelings…please?
ugh
There’s yet another “Reyes Run”
Geez, he’s good at that.
so wagner had a quote about soriano not getting the memo about alou hitting fastballs.
apparently wagner didn’t get the memo that soriano only throws fastballs.
(i know… it actually was a decent pitch, but it’s just a tired act from soriano)
anybody know where i can listen to the game online?
thanks!
That’s why I created “Facebook’s First Ever Willie Harris Fan Club”
I wish we had a Reyes…:(
by the way… Dale Murphy is chatting on “sportsnation” on espn.com at 1pm…
Tell Dale the Braves will still be playing the Met at 1pm…haha
nice…
another slow roller to the left side of the infield
I propose that we score several runs.
I will see your several runs, Stu, and raise you for an assload of runs.
nice KJ
i thought he was too slow for triples.. heh heh
Sigh.
Another runner left on 3rd…great.
chip just said he enjoys the speed game (of reyes) more than the HR power of chipper, tex, or andruw because of its unpredictability. You never know when he’ll drop a bunt or steal a base.
chip… if you know when andruw’s actually going to hit a HR, i think that would be valuable info for mr. bobby cox.
We really need to stop giving up hits to Castillo. He’s garbage.
Man, the Mets’ offense is like death by a thousand cuts. Well, except for the bomb from Alou that is. Ozzie Guillen must love this approach.
What did Soriano do to Joe? Why does Joe hate him so much?
#99, If he likes Reyes so much, he’s welcome to go broadcast for the Mets.
Teixeira’s gotta start producing.. NOW.
Hudson didn’t get the memo that we needed a shut out today. 🙁
Gotta keep it close here & have a little offensive outburst.
#104, .267/.361/.633/.994, 3 HR, 9 RBI. Looks like pretty good production to me.
This game was over before it started.
Stu, No hard feelings at all. In fact I think I was once part of the Rational Train with you a couple years ago. So, We go way back. 🙂
P.S. This sucks… 2-0
Who would have thought the Castillo pick up would be more valuable that Tex,Mahay and Dotel.
Here comes the DP.
Redeem yourself, Andruw!
2-1. They pitch to Escobar here with first occupied.
Is it just me or does Escobar’s picture on Gameday look like Shrek?
Alright, there’s one. Shut ’em down, Huddy. We’ll get it back.
Hudson leading off two innings plus his pitch count….I forsee a Dotel sighting.
way to lead it off huddy
Murphy, you were my hero growing up! Why don’t the clean players force the union’s hand to push for more precise and thorough testing?
ooooooooops… wrong message board. ha!
chipper!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YES!!
met killer! that was a bomb!
you da man Larry.
CHIPPER!!!
CHIPPAH!!!!
The Mets must hate Chipper worse than just about anything…
tex!!!!
back to back. sweet. that’s why he’s here!
Chipper’s taking away RBI opportunities from Tex. 🙂
I almost shouted out loud when I saw the homer on Gamecast. Way to go Chipper! Pile some more on Braves!
Getting it done. Sweet!
HAHAHAHA Chip AND Tex!!
Blast off!
The season is not over.
Ok now just send Soriano, Yates to Philly right now…and we will be OK.
What is Hudson’s pitch count?
Hudson: 71
thanks.
geez. reyes again.
come on huddy.
This fire needs to be put out right now.
Damn damn damn.
And Green is up.
that was way tooooo close. why does green have such great swings only against the braves?
ummm… huddy?
This is not cool. I wish we had someone dependable in the bullpen that we could bring in to put out the fire.
Thank God.
finally
That was way too close.
quit walking reyes! i was sweating that inning out.
I can breathe again….damn
That was almost like a flashback to Bad Hudson from last year. Few things in baseball more infuriate me than pitchers giving back runs right after the team scores them.
A few more runs would calm my nerves, fellas.
Please score some more runs so I can get my work done…
sweet. glad that worked out.
Nice hustle. Let’s get him home.
anyone else see Maine’s picture on gameday – looks like such a goofball…
huddy just threw his bat into the stands on strike 2.
chip: “the ukranian judge gives him a 9.7”
umm… chip… they don’t give scores for the hammer throw.
nice squeeze. way to lay it down huddy!
Sweet!! A squeeze play! Way to go Bobby!
Wow, a Bobby Cox risk has paid off! Haven’t seen that in a while.
You know, I think I actually owe Yunel an apology. He is a legitimate sparkplug. I don’t know how the hell we’ll find playing time for him, but he seems to get in the middle of more rallies, and make more good things happen — like that awesome stolen base while no one was looking — than anyone else I can think of.
Ha! Scott Schoenweis! Forgive my self-indulgence, but he’s the only MLB pitcher of which I can truly say, “I can hit that guy.” I faced him when I was trying to walk onto Duke’s baseball team, we were both freshmen. He hung a curve to me 0-1 and I splashed it off the fence in left-center for a double. So back then, he sucked. Of course, since I got cut, that doesn’t say much for my skills either…
Remember how much trouble Hudson had bunting last year? His hard work has paid off. Good job, Hudson!
this will sound horrible, but is not meant to offend.
Does Jose Reyes set anyone else’s gaydar off.? his manerism’s on the field can be a bit fabulous.
Durn it, Chipper.
I started to wonder when Reyes requested that trade to Boston a few years back, citing his desire to “Hang out naked with Johnny Damon.”
The Braves and Hudson needed that inning. Nice job Tim.
Big Tex with a good start this inning
Is Hudson gonna stick around for another inning? I think he might as well (but with a short-ish leash).
We could not have asked for anything better. The Mets just brought in Sosa. This inning has to be good for at least two more runs.
Sosa must pay.
I’ll give up two for a run
Now huddy can go out there and pitch with some comfort
If Yunel gets a hit, pinch-hitter?
I don’t see why gamecast doesnt have a picture of Escobar. They could just find a picture of Nick Cannon and throw a braves cap on him.
who was that coming out of the ‘pen?
175,
Good call, he does look a lot like Nick Cannon.
It’s uncanny
I’ve been stopped a number of times and told I look like Chipper Jones. I can sort of see it.
I’m on the right: http://ucdavis.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30664015&op=1&o=all&view=all&subj=3217752&id=3202792
Doubledawg,
Don’t you have to be gay to have gaydar? I mean if you are that’s cool…but I thought that was a requirement. Reyes just seems VERY COCKY to me.
C’mon Frenchy…please don’t start trying to pull everything.
I hear “Mahay” and I think of Sam Malone’s nickname. Wish that wasn’t the case.
I hear Mahay and i think “leadoff walk”
Tony, pretty sure anyone can have gaydar. Actually, I think everyone has gaydar, some people’s just isn’t very good.
Leadoff walk again….shit
You don’t actually have to be gay to have gaydar, though growing up gay can certainly help refine your gaydar’s effectiveness. As a particularly unperceptive straight man, who is routinely incapable of understanding most female nonverbal communication, my gaydar is awful. But many people are able to get pretty good.
Ermoore,
Really. I’m going to email one of my gay co-workers and see what he says. I’m pretty sure it will a 1000 word response.
7 runs on 10 hits… the Braves have had pretty good offensive efficiency today. The last few weeks, it seemed like we had to get about 20 hits to get 7 runs.
This Ron Mahay guy is okay by me.
Even though he got out of it, I simply detest the lead off walks from our bullpen. That would be an interesting look back to see how many innings the bullpen has walked the leadoff guy and how many times he scored. Seems to happen too often. At least make them earn it.
Good Job Lefty…
You don’t have to be gay to have “gaydar” … but some people are better inclined. My girlfriend has several gay friends/coworkers and her “gaydar” is exceptionally keen … and she made a similar observation about Reyes’ movements during the May series at Turner Field.
Willie was scared of Thorman?
Is it just me, or has Prado gotten fatter? I hardly recognized him.
I would guess that Willie was scared of Jorge Sosa. As have been most of his managers.
Did anyone see the episode of the office where Michael and Dwight were trying to order a “Gaydar” off the internet? Priceless.
True AAR. Come on Chipper, put this away.
wow… sonny and teixeira.
i know everyone knows that chip says dumb stuff… but he just never stops.
God have mercy… Peter Moylan’s already up to 62 innings pitched.
OK, a five pitch innning- you’ve GOT to leave him in for th 9th right?
Moylan is the man….
5 pitches baby! That’s how it’s done.
Rufino, he’s pitched nearly 63 innings this year! There’s a month and a half left in the season!
Way to go Pete. I assume we are trotting out the rotund one for the 9th. To that I say God have mercy.
AAR,
62 innings? Jesus help us. B/C it looks like he is the set-up guy.
Wow this would have been a sweep if we would have brought him in last night…but I see Bobby was saving him for the 8th inning last night.
Who closes Wickman or Dotel?
No argument about the # of IP, but damn, five pitches hardly seems like much of a strain- it’s almost like he just warmed up in the pen and didn’t get into the game at this point.
I think Bobby brings in Wickman.
Keep Moylan in.
i’m guessing it’s beluga bob
I really hate it when the ESPN Gametracker is ahead of the radio. It’s a couple pitches ahead and doesn’t even throw up a spoiler alert . . .
does that make Paronto Baby Beluga? In the deep blue sea?
that looked like Yates…
209 — did you see that andruw K’d before you heard it? not much of a spoiler there. doh
25 pitches for Mota in a 1-2-3 inning, I bet that’s pretty unusual…
A 25-pitch, 1-2-3 inning for Mota. At least we made him work for it.
210 — nice.
by the way… i think “beluga bob” is a creation of brad evans on yahoo. i’m pretty sure that’s where i read it.
It would have been nice to have gotten another run in the 9th–especially after the first two games against Mets.
I am guessing that its Wickman….
The “gay in our office” just told me that straight people, particularly guys, cannot have gaydar…b/c they are not gay. He said gay men people like to know who else is gay for obvious reasons.
I ask him about Jose Reyes, he said he didn’t know but would love to find out…LOL
Beat me by mere seconds, Rufino.
the TBS flash to the bullpen looked like Yates was out there by himself
Yates?
Well, two out of three. I’m cool with this.
in response to joe and chip discussing the acquisition of david wells: we’ve already had a fat over-the-hill lefty this year and it didn’t work out. why in the hell would we want another one?
surprise — it’s kali
Stu, my bad. Great minds and all that, I guess.
I don’t even know what emotion I am or should be feeling right now.
I don’t even know what emotion I am or should be feeling right now.
Tony, I’m not sure that I’d agree that the one gay guy who’s handy to answer this question necessarily speaks for the entire queer community, or can say with absolute certainty whether only gay men can identify other gay men as gay.
Plenty of straight women can do it, certainly.
I wonder whats wrong with Wickman…Kali is off to a great start….
Can we bring Moylan back?
Stu, I’d say a mixture of hope and fear would be in order.
Why not Moylan? He threw like four or five pitches in the eighth.
I don’t like this Yates decision, I really don’t.
Yates?!!
reyes…
wonderful.
Here we go.
Kyle Davies has a no-hitter in the 5th against Minnesota…
Bobby, for the love of God, get him out of there.
Bobby Cox thinks four run leads are safe. I guess he hasn’t seen the Braves blow enough of them yet.
ridiculous
Oh, my.
Apparently the Braves don’t have anybody warming up….
My gosh, do we not have one decent reliever?
I spoke too soon.
Why couldn’t Moylan go one more inning…this guy is worhthless…DAMN
Please, let’s change the reel. I’ve seen this movie already.
The Vulture has begun to throw…I really wish we had gotten some more runs in Mota’s 25 pitch inning…
worthless…that is
One out.
245 — and we’ve all memorized chip’s lines
I’m straight, but I think I’ve got a decent gaydar. In my experience, gay guys tend to be much more perceptive, lets say, military grade gaydar. I actually posted that questions hoping someone on the board might be a gay male and have a more “expert” opinion on Jose Reyes. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
I cannot wait to get out of New York, if only so we do not have to see Reyes any more. I am not going to lie, I kind of felt that he was a little over-rated being in New York and all, but that guy scares me.
I must be insane to keep watching this every day.
Urge to Kill Shrinking…
Lets get the next 2…
this is ridiculous
7-6.
few things are more surreal than multiple conversation threads on a linear message board.
“My gosh, do we not have one decent reliever?”
Peter Moylan. But Cox thinks he’s winded after a whole four pitches in the eighth.
I say it again, this is on Bobby Cox’s head if this game is blown.
Sweet the bases are empty.
Bobby…nevermind. I’ve said it all.
Moylan rots on the bench.
Urge to kill … rising
Damn!!! We are in danger of reaching a new low: and that is saying something!
Kali needs to go to Richmond…
So we can agree that going with Yates was a bad idea, right? Where the hell is Wickman?!!
This is absurd. I can’t handle this much longer.
wow. I decided to fire up the Slingplayer just in time to see that homerun. sometimes technology hurts.
Okay, when Devine is eligible he needs to get back up here. Paronto couldn’t be worse than Yates
Tyler Yates: Great reliever…or greatest reliever?
Its pretty amazing: last week we traded for 3 relievers and for the second time in less than 24 hours our bullpen is about to lose it for us….
I do not mean this to be negative- though I guess by default it is- but even if the Mets lose this game, if I was a Mets fan I would not be worried about the Braves. This bullpen is a mess, and Bobby’s handling of it questionable…
Apparently Wickman and Dotel are hurt, and Soriano sucks, so this is pretty much it.
Seriously, where is Wickman? Or Dotel?
Sweet mother, I walk out to a meeting for 20 minutes and come back to hear it’s a one run game?!? Yates?? For the love of God Bobby you are an idiot!
Never thought I’d say it, but I’m starting to think it’s time for Bobby to go. His bullpen management this year has been beyond indefensible.
I am about to throw my work computer across the room. Damn you Yates!
what a catch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now who in the hell is going to pitch to Delgado and Alou….this is sickening.
Willie Harris for president!
Oh MY GOSH…
Willie!
The Vulture … well, the vultures are circling around our team right now.
willie saved me from breaking the tv
Willie is amazing. Give that man a hand.
I’m having a heart attack.
That was bad-ass.
OK guys what did we miss?
You are f’ing kidding me Willy!
You are f’ing kidding me Willy!
That may have saved the season
Did Willie steal that? Was that as impressive as it sounded on the radio?!
Willie!!
Can someone describe Willie’s catch to me?
Gameday says that was a home run – did Willie rob it?
My buddy just called me and said Willie took one away. Sounds good to me.
Describe! Describe!
Gameday shows that ball that Delgado just hit leaving the yard yet it was a flyout to left- what did Willie do exactly? Did he go over the fence for it?
BRAVES WIN!!!
thank goodness
Pete’s voice went up two ocataves.
Payback is a Eva Longoria….. Wow!
ballgame! now get the hell out of NY before they somehow lose the game.
willie may have saved the season!
“did Willie rob it?”
Yep.
Give that W to Wille!
Yates and Soriano need to be DFAed. I blame Bobby for overusing them.
Where is Wickman??
Braves take 2 of 3 in New York. Cheer up, people!
Whew!!
Willie pulled a page from Endy Chavez’s playbook. Way to go, Willie!
Save- Harris (1)
For those who couldn’t see it…..yes, Willie robbed it. Play of the year for us right there.
I heard it on the radio, how great of a catch was it? Otis Nixson esk?
Thats about as close as it should ever get–especially with the Mets.
#268, JS can go and get relievers but he can’t make Bobby use them sanely. Soriano and Yates were already on the team anyway (unfortunately).
My gosh, only the Braves could make it that interesting.
Willie went back, leaped up over the wall and grabbed what would have been the tying HR. Just an incredible grab. Brought it back from over the wall.
Willie Harris saves the season, robbing a Delgado homer.
I will say not another negative word about Willie Harris this season. Nor will I suggest that he ever be moved down in the order.
Thank goodness this mess is over. 8-4 against the Mets. They can’t even beat us when we try to hand it to them!
someone tell me what happened with willie’s catch, i can’t watch at work
I haven’t seen a HR rob that great since Otis Nixon. Not as much vertical by Willie, but hey definitely got up there and made it look easy.
Okay, Stu.
Willie Harris: great American… or greatest American?
willie deserves a new contract for his play today while kali deserves a bullet.
Im not sure it was gone, but it was close
Willie Harris justified his presence for the entire season with one catch.
Not pretty (w/ re: bullpen), but we’ll take it.
307–Agreed!
we deserved to pull one out after last night.
Unbelievable
It was a beautiful catch. Basically he ran to the wall, jumped up and snagged the ball as it was going over the fence.
I am at work, but I can’t wait to get home and see the highlight.
Chipper said these games would be wars. Honestly I’m surprised we won the first game so easily.
Hudson keeps his name in that Cy Young race. 13-5 and that is including the Wickman/Florida meltdown game.
Boy, that has to be deflating for the Mets.
Kyle Davies 5 innings 1 hit today vs the Twins….
I thikn a stint on the DL would help Soriano and Yates.
Bring up Asciano and Devine, or Royce Ring, I dont think you lose anything caue Soriano and Yates are burnt and could use the rest!
And the Wickman/San Francisco meltdown game.
80+ posts in 10 minutes. Guess it beats actually biting fingernails to the bone.
Alex R,
I call on you to name your baby Willie Harris R.
For those who didn’t see it
http://pix.nofrag.com/b/2/d/1e7425e01b53620ad717d80329a56.jpeg
Yates is much more burned out than Soriano–but I agree they both need rest.
What is the story with Wickman?
This is poetic justice after last night’s ninth inning display of ineptitude.
#328
arguably more deflating than being down a run and failing to score with the bases loaded in the 9th inning.
#315 — Amen to that, brother. I was just thinking that myself — haven’t actually seen a catch like that since Otis Nixon. Talk about a momentum-swinger…and how clutch does that suicide squeeze by Hudson look now?
Wow, I say just pack the team up and get down to Philly ASAP, because the Bravos just stole one.
Very nice, Nasa.
Actually, it was a perfectly parallel display of 9th-inning ineptitude right up to the point where WILLIE HARRIS FREAKING TOOK OVER.
Will we EVER, and I mean EVER, win a game with ease unless we are 10 runs up?
LOL…so Willie stole one? I’ll be damn. Wickman can’t pitch on the road or something. Wouldn’t be a bad idea. Dotel is resting for Philly?
Doubledawg,
Well he does live in NY, so I’m pretty sure there is someone who spotted him at a nightspot…lol
Call up Devine, Asciano(sp) Yates and Soriano are done. Or at least DL them. No way either Yates or Soriano get Rollins and Howard out. No way.
Get Ascanio and Ring up here right now. Delenda est Yates. Willie Harris, that’s that hot junk.
Tom — unfortunately, no.
Though I didn’t see it on TV, the photo of that catch actually reminds me of the famous Endy Chavez catch. I’m sure that Mets fans are thinking the same thing in their embittered black hearts.
“13-5 and that is including the Wickman/Florida meltdown game.”
And the Wickman/Minnesota game against Santana. And the Wickman/San Francisco game.
Great picture of willie on yahoo sports making the catch:
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/photo;_ylt=Au9vIO6NfnUCQQ6oN5JcvsCFCLcF?slug=a943f04dca7144ceab2c7db0381cc61e.braves_mets_baseball_nys101&prov=ap
I’m still thinking Moylan should have had the ninth. He threw four frickin’ pitches, for God’s sake Bobby.
willie ‘mays’ harris may deserve a shot at centerfield at some point afterall.
that Yahoo picture is a different catch willie made – not the delgado one
Thank goodness for this win so we can take our licking tomorrow during the Hamels/Cormier (likely) fiasco.
Stu,
Done. My baby (much to my wife’s chagrin) will be called “Willie Harris R”. 🙂
I was at the Wickman – Santana game, most crushing braves defeat I have ever had the pleasure of attending.
Dan–I agree, but at least Moylan will be better rested for the Phillies.
I would also like to see Devine/Ascanio and Ring
James against Hamels, Cormier against Eaton. I’d like the Braves to reverse it so it’s Cormier against Hamels and James against Eaton. That way you have a chance at a split instead of two losses. Hamels is to good and Cormier sucks so badly.
The thing with Yates and Soriano…how can we as fast see they are burned out, but Bobby can’t see it. You don’t go from being lights out to Mark Redman like they have w/o being tired. We need to rest them immediately so they can at least relieve Moylan…
we as fans
wrong hit Jorgbacca
The bullpen is in trouble, but on the plus side, we just took 2 of 3 from the Mets at Shea.
I agree w/ Dan. I say get Cormier’s inevitable disaster out of the way against Hamels. Then, James can beat Eaton and Buddy can win on Sunday night. If we win 2 of 3, we’ll all take it.
At what point do we shut the entire bullpen down and just use Moylan?
o my god, a mark redman mention! remember that disaster. Just think, if we started the year with buddy carlye instead of mark redman, what do you think the difference in wins would be?!
Bright side? We should have swept. That loss from last night still bothers me.
I love reading Mets’ fans comments when the Braves win. He’s a page of comments that features them all giddy about the comeback and Wright’s homerun, and the meltdown when Harris robbed Delgado.
http://www.metsgeek.com/?p=2337&cp=13#comments
@349,
Actually, Willie is William Charles Harris. That gives you some good options to work with.
Also, most of you are too young, but in about 1986 Bob Kostas (yeah, Barry Bonds’ favorite midget) was doing the studio show on the “NBC” MLB game of the week. Early in the season, Kirby Puckett told Kostas that Kirby was going to hit 20 home runs (20 was the current 30).
Costas said “No way. If he does, I’ll name my son (due in 6 months or so) “Kirby Puckett Kostas”. When Kirby passed 20, viewers and Kirby gave Kostas hell, and he came on and said his wife wouldn’t let him do it.
4 losses for redman 11 losses for the bullpen. A couple key losses in Washington and the cinnicinati series. Those make a huge difference right now
I really think it’s high time to DFA Yates.
Look we have some guys in Richmond like Ascancio and Ring who deserve a chance. This is stretch time and we need to clean out as much of the crud as possible.
I also think a DL visit for Soriano and Andruw is badly needed.
Oh, and complements to all on the postings.
The little back and forth on grammar and spelling yesterday or the day before was funny.
This site has by far the best grammar and spelling of any site on sports that I visit. No “internet codes”. No atrocious spellings. All in all, you are to be coplemented.
“Martinez gave up five runs and six hits in the Class A St. Lucie Mets’ game against the Lakeland Flying Tigers on Wednesday, as he attempts to return to the New York rotation after offseason shoulder surgery.”
HAH!
fine,
“Willie Charles Harris R”.
🙂
or complemented (a typing, not spelling error)
Land,
Hopefully, the Mets will be starting Pedro against us when they come to Atlanta soon.
“Willie Chaz” has a nice ring to it.
Dan,
there was a Florida game that Wickman blew for Huddy.
Alex, no kidding. I hope they try to rush him back a.s.a.p.
I am also considering “Peter Moylan R”.
Ascanio and Ring should be catching a flight to philly, yates needs to go, and soriano needs the DL.
Dan,
That was too funny. I like “where is fatty wickman” and “Be for villaREAL”. Mets fan is so use to being the doormat for the Yankees and the Braves they are actually a sad group.
CJames vs. Hamels tomorrow….
James has to step it up. I believe the Braves can handle Hamels.
James has to keep the ball from flying out of that small ballpark.
If we get 5 good innings out of James, I will be thrilled.
I think my favorite part of reading that Mets thread was a conversation about whether or not David Wright’s 3-run homer was to blame for killing their rally.
As the Sports Guy might say, yup… these are the Mets fans.
5 innings from James and then who do you suggest we bring in?
The Mets announcers were pretty unimpressed with their team’s inability to take 2 out of 3.
Cormier worries me, but if we can figure out a way to handle Chase Utley, then we might just build some momentum.
Interesting little write-up about “Mr. Clutch” Andruw Jones:
“When Jeff Francoeur grounded into a forceout at the plate with the bases loaded and nobody out in the ninth inning of Wednesday night’s 4-3 loss, there was reason to be surprised. But when Mets closer Billy Wagner escaped the jam unscathed by inducing an Andruw Jones double-play groundout, there wasn’t much reason for surprise.
From the beginning of the 2000 season through the end of 2003, Jones batted .273 with runners in scoring position. Since the beginning of the 2004 season, he’s hit just .234. This year, he’s hitting just .224 — a mark at least better than his overall .215 batting average.
During his young career, which began midway through the 2005 season, Francoeur has hit .334 with runners in scoring position. This year, he’s hit a team-best .351 in that situation.”
I cannot wait to see who offers him some money in the offseason. However we are headed to that little league park in Philly, AJ hits Philly pretty well…MAYBE he’s about to carry the club. Sigh……
I’m stuck in meetings but hopefully will get the recap up in about an hour.
We’ll handle Utley just fine…he’s on the DL with a broken hand. Hell, even Cormier could get him out in that situation.
Alex,
I wouldn’t be so sure of that
I’d say the best way to handle Utley is to watch him very carefully as he sits on the bench. He’s still on the DL. 🙂
Jesus…
The Mets next five opponents:
At home against the Marlins. At Pittsburgh, at Wash, and then the no hitting Padres and Dodgers come to Shea. Mercy.
Yet, for some reason, the Phillies are still piling up a ton of runs. I am very worried about this series.
I love the Mets fans on the Mets board. that was an all time classic!
The Phillies also get the Nats and Pirates next week. We get Arizona. That’s not right.
At least we get the Giants, post Bonds mania. If we don’t sweep the Giants (and both Smoltz and Hudson are pitching against them), then we shouldn’t even bother trying the rest of the year.
But back to the Nats, not only have they been playing really well, but Mac is right…they are a feisty bunch and his prediction of the Nats going 3-3 against the Phillies and Mets next weekend is pretty good.
My mistake: I am glad that we don’t have to worry about Utley for now…my fear of Utley has been so well developed that I forgot that he was injured recently. Still, I think I did hear that he will be back by the end of the season.
Yea I was thinking about the Nats too as my diehard Nats fan neighbor has the Nats/Giants game blasting on his radio in his office.
They are fiesty.
The Marlins have to show some of pride. Don’t they?
Damn Ryan Howard has 32HR and 93RBI
Believe me, the way 75% of our bullpen is pitching, they will probably treat Tad Iguchi LIKE he’s Utley.
L. Ron Mahay.
Pat Burrell’s the one swinging a hot bat right now. The big lug finally woke up.
Nothing against Howard, mind you.
I walk into the deli. The clerk sees me & says, “That was a lucky catch at the end.”
Me: “Hard to get lucky 8 times, innit?”
“A Braves fan walks into a New York Deli…” sounds like the start to a GREAT joke.
Or a miserable tragedy.
true. I was trying for glass half full.
But as much as I dislike the Mets, I do love New York Deli – yum.
Chipper Jones: Alex Rodriguez will have to answer steroid questions, too
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AmzFTUbHqf9xzYTLbo8Pu94R0bYF?slug=ap-cjones-a-rod&prov=ap&type=lgns
I’ve never been in NY, but I do love deli meat and all the “NY-style” delis to which I’ve ever been. I could probably eat sandwiches for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
So I leave after the Chipper and Tex HRs to take my kid for a checkup and the pen falls apart again. It almost makes me glad we had a long wait to see the doc–I probably would have gone postal when Yates gave up the HR to Wright.
At least we got out with 2 of 3 (though it should have been 3 of 3)–now it’s on to watch Chuckie (an ok pitcher but a fly ball guy) and Cormier (not an ok pitcher) start in Philly’s bandbox. Stock up on the Maalox now.
Stu-
5th Avenue Deli is great, Carnegie is probably the most famous and usually you see someone famous eating there. The warm corn beef or pastrami slices with hot, spicy mustard…it all melts in your mouth.
Nut I don’t even know if I can put NY Deli ahead of NY style pizza.
Does Cormier have to pitch with his straight 89 to 90 mph fast ball? Aren’t we asking for a disaster?
NEW THREAD.
Anybody notice that Kyle Davies went 6.2 with 3 hits and no runs today against the Twins? Hope that hasn’t already been mentioned. I hope Kyle does well in KC.