ESPN – Pirates vs. Braves Box Score, July 13 2007 – MLB
It’s fun to play the Pirates.
In the first inning, after a LaRoche error on a ground ball from Chipper, and a walk to Andruw, McCann hit a homer to give the Braves a 3-0 lead. (Of course, this is “unearned”, because the error caused the walk and the homer. Don’t think about it.) Tim Hudson didn’t have to worry much, what with the Pirates in the house. He gave up a couple of first inning singles but got a double play to get out of it, and cruised from there, allowing only three more hits, walking just one, and striking out four over seven innings.
It stayed 3-0 until the sixth, when Andruw and McCann hit back to back homers, followed by two singles, a walk, another single, a strikeout, and two more singles. After Diaz (hitting for Andruw for some reason) hit a sac fly it was 9-0.
Moylan, for some reason, pitched the eighth, as Bobby apparently intends to see how firmly attached his arm actually is. Jose Ascanio, up from Mississippi due to Fredo Ledezma’s visa problems (yeah, that was a great trade) gave up three hits in the ninth to allow the Pirates’ lone run. In addition to his two homers, McCann also had a double. Chipper was the only other Brave with more than one hit, a single and a double.
I wonder if Fredo’s visa problems are a convenient way of dealing with an ineffective pitcher that lacks options…
“McCann hit a homer to give the Braves a 3-1 lead.” It was 3-0 at this time, not 3-1. Just a little typo, you got it right after, I wanted to point that…
i don’t get all the sudden bad blood with the fredo trade, he’s been fine. he has had one bad inning, and that was largely due to bobby using him like a 50 cent hooker. McBride was total crap by the end of his braves’ tenure and both guys needed a new start. surely fredo will make it back soon and all will be fine.
Nasa from France shut the hell up. We won the game. Why don’t you back to french kissing your mama.
Even though we won, I have a complaint.
If Bobby won’t use Devine in a game like this, what’s the point of having him up? And using Moylan?
It’s an odd typo. Why did I do that?
Braves’ Complete Game Watch:
The Atlanta Braves are one of three teams, along with the Marlins and Nationals, to not have even one 9-inning complete game from any of their starters. No team in MLB history has gone a full year with no complete games. The nearest was the 2006 Cubs, who didn’t get a complete game until mid-September.
Stats are sacred in baseball, Justin.
Update on Maddux’s PineTarGate:
Ubiquiotis says:
“He was caught. But again he got caught in a time when the world wasn’t looking for cheaters yet. In fact the reporter who wrote about it used the example to prove what a smart pitcher he was. There was a game around 2000 in or against Milwaukee in which the reporter saw MAddux using pine tar on his way to the mound. He reported and said what a smart pitcher he was for doing it.
Up until steroids broke through pitcher cheating wasn’t some horrible thing. It was expected and almost nobody cared. Heck take a look at some of our old steroid threads and see what most peoples views of pitchers cheating was 3 or 4 years ago.”
My reply:
“Again, where is your proof? What the hell is this article that you’re talking about? For all I know, you don’t like Maddux and this article doesn’t exist. If this is actually true, this is just like Sammy Sosa: we don’t know how long Maddux used pine tar and even if he did, we can’t punish him for it because he isn’t doing it NOW.”
I’m just getting really pissed off at this guy.
Why the heck did chuck james pinch hit? I couldn’t hear the tv here at work.
I don’t have the slightest idea but he is hitting .214
Bobby didn’t want to use Saltalamacchia in case something happened to McCann, is what the Carays were speculating.
Ryan Braun is on fire keep bringing in the Stats for my Fantasy Teams Braun!! Brewers surely have a bright future if they can get a little more pitching to go along with those youngsters.
And we’re carrying 13 pitchers even without Ledezma (or Smoltz), so we only have 4 reserve fielders.
Yeah, I scooped up Ryan Braun the day he was available (I had wanted Yovani Gallardo, but someone else got him.). He and McCann are responsible for the rampage my team’s on.
Eh, I gave up on the Maddux thing. Just as well, it was making me mad.
Talking about fantasy teams. I drafted andruw as my number one and he didn’t deliver. He better make up for up for the second half.
Anyone have any predictions on who we might deal before the trade deadline? We should drop woodward and pick up franco!
I definitely agree about dropping Woodward for Franco or any homosapien with on on pulse.
More importantly, only 1 1/2 games now behind the Mets.
Maybe McCann was playing pissed off after LaRussa’s shameful managing at the all star game.
Skip said it sounded like Julio was done — can’t hit a fastball with that heavy bat anymore. Much as I don’t want to believe it, the sudden collapse of a 48-year-old ballplayer isn’t exactly beyond the realm of imagination.
Nice win tonight. We’re gonna need those bats.
Some things I just don’t get. After Hudson sat for half an hour between the sixth and the seventh innings while the Braves batted around and the Pirates made two pitching changes, why would you send him out in the seventh with a 9-0 lead? The bullpen is fully rested and we are carrying several guys that Bobby will only use in blowouts. Hudson, predictably, labored in the seventh fighting his control and only escaping unscathed because this was the Pirates. Bobby needs to be smarter with his ace there, save his energy for the stretch run. Frustrating to watch.
Any info on why Andruw got yanked? Lingering injury? Hot dogged it to much in his home run trot? Anything? He looks great at the plate right now by the way.
AP recap says right quad injury, but expects to play tomorrow.
So one extra inning is going to gas Hudson for the coming months? Oh, good Lord, this is just going too far.
I know that’s not what you meant, Robert, but that sentence REALLY sounded silly. As if this one July inning was going to affect him in late August or something.
Camera showed Andruw laughing in the dugout after being pinch-hit for. Take that for what it’s worth.
So it probably wasn’t all that serious an injury.
Nope.
Julio’s hitting .200/328/260 in just 60 PA this year, which was after his 2006 numbers declined. He is, in fact, done.
From mlb.com:
===========
More trade talk: While the Astros may not be looking to move Lidge on July 31, they are on the prowl for a catcher who can move into the No. 1 spot that will likely be vacated by Brad Ausmus at the end of the season.
The catcher position is the top priority for the Astros heading toward the trade deadline. If they don’t acquire a catcher by July 31, it’ll be No. 1 on their list this offseason.
==========
Salty for Jason Jennings?
Wait, nevermind. Jennings is a FA after this season. Who else would we want (besides Oswalt, who’s not really touchable)?
I know that’s not what you meant, Robert, but that sentence REALLY sounded silly.
Your incredibly thoughtful critique aside, I stand behind what I wrote. Pitchers are delicate, have your best guy get back warm for a meaningless inning with a 9-0 lead is a dumb, unecessary risk. Hopefully, nothing will come of it. Thank you for your valuable input though.
He started the inning with only 72 pitches and had been getting better as the game went along. We have a bullpen that is having problems. I was a little surprised that Bobby let him go as long as he did in the 7th, but wasn’t at all surprised – or disappointed – that he started the inning.
Yeah, I was about to say, I was thinking the exact opposite of Robert. We’re up 9-0 and we go right back to eviscerating our bullpen again. I’d have left Hudson in there for at least one more inning and would’ve tried to push him through the whole thing. I don’t know how many pitches he had after seven but it was damn sure less than 100.
Only if the Braves get Johan Santana, I will not be happy to see Salty being traded for any pitcher.
Nick,
he was at 89, but devine/paronto/ascanio/villareal should have pitched those 2 innings, bobby’s mistake i think was using moylan (as mentioned by Mac) as opposed to using the fillers.
If Julio can’t swing that heavy bat at 48, then why doesn’t he just switch to a lighter bat and start hitting again? I would love to see him give the 1B some rest or maybe even pinch hit every now and then. I wanted to see him play until he was 50. I still think he’s in better physical shape than most, if not all, of the Braves now.
Now things are gonna get interesting. We know Huddy’s supposed to be able to handle these clowns, so let’s see how the rest of our rotation fares. James vs Gorzo tonight.
I still dont understand the ER rule. A hr no matter when it happens should be an ER. Lets say Francouer comes up after McCann and hits another HR. Does that stil not count as an earned run? What a stupid rule
If we traded Salty for Jason Jennings, I might kidnap someone.
I know the ER rule takes a lot of heat around here, but I actually think it makes perfect sense. Without the error, Snell’s out of the inning with no runs scored.
Now, maybe there’s a different statistic out there or that has yet to be developped that somehow takes account of and punishes a pitcher for giving up a ton of runs after an error, but I think the rule fits well with the title.
I’ll drop Woodward for anyone at this point. Seriously though, call up Pena to replace him. Pena has shown that he can play multiple positions. Also, Willie Harris can play anywhere and so can Escobar. Woodward has no value to this team.
Salty for Jennings, absolutely NOT
If we trade Salty, we better get a top notch starter for at least until the 2010 season. he’d better be cheap also
#39 – thank you
#40 – after McCann had cleared the bases, what would happen if he gave up another HR after that. That would have to count would it? Or would that error, that would’ve been the 3rd out, keep him from being charged with the run?
I dont think the rule is terrible. I just think thay only the person that reached because of the error shouldnt be charged. The walk and the HR should go to the pitcher
How about Pena for Wandy Rodriguez. He’s cheap and a good K guy. Hes not a top notch starter, but he’s better than Carlyle and Davies, maybe even James. Might have more upside down the road
Sheffield just cant keep his mouth shut can he.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7021278
csg,
sheff has always called it like he saw it. i really don’t see anything wrong with what he’s said. we all know that social inequity exists in the world, hopefully by being more vocal about what is going on folks will be more aware of what they are saying to others and how it is perceived.
as far as his comments on jeter, i don’t have a dog in that hunt.
I had no problem with Cox benching a bunch of the starters (Chipper, Renteria, Andruw) for bench guys; I just figured Andruw got pinch-hit for because it was a blow out and no need to risk him clocking the catcher with one of his swings.
Also, I was mildly surprised Cox brought Hudson back out but was just flat stunned when Moylan (our 2nd or 3rd best reliever, with 46.2 IP coming into the game, I might add) was brought in to pitch the 8th. I mean, seriously? Are we that scared of what Devine and Paronto can do? If so, what’s the point of rostering them? It just made no sense at all to me, unless it was just “Moylan’s day” to pitch or something silly like that.
Yep, no point in using Moylan there. Why not Devine and Ascanio in the 8th and 9th. We had a nine run lead! Ascanio throws hard for a 22 yr old doesnt he, he’ll be a great addition to our club in the next year or so.
Im sure Bobby wanted to give Escobar and Diaz an AB last night, just to knock off the dust from the break. They’ll be in the lineup tonight
re: 40, yes, he would have been out of the inning, but he would still have had to face McCann in the following inning. Take it that step further, if Frenchy homers with the bases now cleared how would that differ from him going yard in the bottom of the next inning?
Not saying ER is a useless stat, but one that cannot stand alone very well.
Had Frenchy homered after McCann, it too would have been unearned. All runs after the LaRoche error would have been unearned. ERA has lost some cred with statheads over the years, partly for this very reason, but moreso because guys like Grybo could keep their ERAs low while letting in everyone else’s runs. But it does bear mentioning that the best pitchers, especially Maddux in his heyday, pick up their defenses and don’t let in unearned runs at all. I think I recall one season when Maddux allowed only a single unearned run all year. Snell didn’t have amazing stuff last night. That’s what cost the Pirates, not LaRoche.
Robert,
I’d say it’s just fine that Hudson went out there for seven innings. I don’t get the non-use of Devine either later, but having Huddy pitch for 7 innings under 100 pitches is just hunky-dory for me. I thought it was proven that somewhere around 100 pitches is about the threshold for keeping starters going as long as they can. Do you think that Hudson’s threshold is less than one hundred?
The AJC quotes Schuerholz as saying they have no intention of trading Saltalamacchia (Schuerholz didn’t say the same thing for Escobar) and he’s considering bringing Julio Franco and his Mendoza batting average back.
If you want Franco back, don’t complain when he inevitably sucks. Once he’s on this team, he’s never leaving. He’ll take one of the 25 precious roster spots. And unlike Woodward, who can play every position but pitcher and catcher fairly well, Franco has the range of a dead sloth and no reaction time (part of the reason the Mets released Julio Franco was because medium-speed groundballs were rolling between his legs at first base).
It’s best this gets nipped in the bud. No to Julio Franco.
I would rather watch Franco come here and strike out then watch Woodward keep a roster spot for no reason. At least Franco was good at some point. maybe he can be the new hitting coach
have to agree with dan, as much as i like julio the only way i’d like to see him in a braves’ uniform is as a coach.
JS…There’s a good chance the Braves will trade for a starting pitcher before the month is out. (Indeed, Schuerholz had a list of possible deals written on an index card, which he declined to make available to the media.) There’s no chance such a trade will be made in haste. These are the staid Braves, not the kneejerk Mets.
Every potential trade partner asks about Jarrod Saltalamacchia and Yunel Escobar, of whom Schuerholz said: “Those two guys are known to be two of the finest young players in the game.” Of Salty in particular: “I don’t have any intention of trading him.”
don’t know if this is good or bad, but tanyon sturges has been spotted.
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070711&content_id=2082181&vkey=news_atl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl
I was sitting right over by the bullpen last night and did see Devine stretch out. I was really hoping he would get out there. I thought it was a great game. I was really surprised to see Ian Snell struggle as much as he did with his pitches, no matter what his ERA says.
Asciano has good stuff, but I think he walks nearly a guy an inning. He has to work on his control.
well he’s getting paid either way, so we might as well use him. It’ll cost us another 300K if he’s ever added to the roster.
Seriously though, Thorman is down to .217 with a .253 OBP. Why is he still getting AB’s. We would be better off with Franco and Pena than Woodward and Thorman
While I am not exactly a fan of Woodward. How many 1st baseman/left fielders do we need (Diaz, Saltalamacchia, Thorman). If we add either Pena or Franco. We are just creating less room and less playing time for players.
“”Asciano has good stuff, but I think he walks nearly a guy an inning. He has to work on his control.””
Another pitcher of ours who has bad control. What are we teaching these guys. Lets go back to the Mazzone era of getting ahead of guys and then low and away. We have problems of trying to pitch in with our fastballs and leaving pitches over the middle of the plate. Carlyle is the only pitcher Ive seen brought up with good control. Devine, Boyer, McBride, Paronto at times, Ascanio, Davies, Lerew, all of our pitching prospects have trouble throwing strikes
i guess if i had a preference to gripe and complain about someone who is a waste of space it would not be julio. i can bash woody and thor with a clear conscience.
Well if we call up Pena, he’ll be McCann’s backup. So he’ll play every 5th day, he can also play LF from what Im hearing. Escobar would replace Woodward and Harris would be the other utility infielder. Woodward is seeing any Ab’s or playing time anyways
all I know is that we are getting hammered with a storm in Birmingham right now. Its a massive storm on the radar heading towards GA. There may not be a game tonight!
Right. So just get rid of Woodward. We don’t like him, and we like Julio. No matter how much he sucks, he’s Julio Franco, and, personally, I can’t hate him even if he comes to the Braves and doesn’t get a single hit.
let’s hope we get it in.
sam,
will give julio the “brian jordan” position on the bench, most recently occupied by speedy pete.
will is saturday language for “we will” 😉
How about this — we can sign Julio to coach Salty on his 1B defense, then add him to the active roster in September a la Manny Mota. I don’t know if the 40-man roster ramifications are any different now than they were back when Mota and Davalillo would suit up for the Dodgers for their annual pennant run, but having a designated old guy whose only job is to make it to first base one way or another appeals to me greatly.
Wandy is not the answer. He’s almost certainly not better than James, and I think he’s 28 years old, so he’s not likely to improve all that much. I was able to include him in a fantasy trade for Derek Lowe last night, though.
I know he’s not the answer, but I would give them Pena for him
there is no way the Astros can trade Oswalt. They only have 3 pitchers on their roster with Era’s under 4. Lidge, Oswalt, and Rodriguez
they’re hurting for good pitchers right now, trading Oswalt would be a disaster
You guys know that Scott Thorman had a .794 career minor league OPS?
another one of our good AAAA players, we have a lot of them
Pendleton rushed to the hospital after yesterday’s workout, irregular heartbeat
http://www.ajc.com/braves/content/sports/braves/stories/2007/07/13/0714pendleton.html
Thorman is killing TP.
What concerns me as much about Tanyon Sturtze possibly being on the team is who we’re going to move to make room for him.
Sturtze is still a few weeks away. I would guess that he’ll get the next shot at either the 4 or 5 slot if we don’t find any trade help. As such he would be replacing, at this point, either Buddy, Kyle, or JoJo. I’m not high on the guy or anything, but I don’t think that we would be moving any pitcher of quality out of the way for him.
Really, when I think about it, I suspect that he’s there to tell any potential trading partners that we still have in-house solutions, so we really aren’t desperate enough to trade Salty away for a 3 or a 4 pitcher.
has anyone ever noticed how much McCann backs out of the box when pitchers start their motion towards home? Sometimes I’m surprised that the ump gives him time. Just wondering if anyone else has noticed this
#75
Sturtze hasn’t started more than 8 games in a year since 2002, and didn’t start any games last year. I’d be surprised if the Braves use him to start any games.
More likely they’d move a reliever to put him in the ‘pen. The most likely candidates, Ledezma and Paronto, are out of options.
@75
my guess would be reyes, davies or ascanio will be sent down to make room for sturzes, but that would be at least 3 to 4 weeks. they might even wait until the roster expands.
ledezma won’t likely be cut, as he is our only lefty out of the pen and the braves will try to move him into a starting role next spring.
Reyes, Devine, and Ascanio will be sent down when Smoltz and Ledezma return, plus the Braves will go back to a 12 man pitching staff.
Nobody knows what the roster will look like when Sturtze is ready though, so I suppose it doesn’t matter much right now.
78 continued
with smoltz’s return, jo-jo, buddy or hiram will be sent down. i agree w/B14 that sturzes will be used in some relief capacity and if they still need room for him then davies or ascanio would be other likely targets to be sent back to richmond.
no way Carlyle is taken out of this rotation before Jo JO or Davies
anyway, just got tickets to tonights game. Leaving Bham headed for Atl in 30 minutes. Hopefully James will be good, there wont be any rain, and we’ll win. See you guys in the recap tomorrow
Looking at Chuck James game log, he’s allowed 3 runs or less in eight of his last ten starts. Hope he keeps it up.
I agree at the moment, csg. But if he has three or so rough starts in a row, that assessment might change. To be sure, Carlyle has pitched fairly well, especially for a 5th starter. Honestly, though, it remains likely that the league will adjust to him and begin hitting him harder. And when that happens, support here will likely evaporate. Perhaps, Carlyle will surprise and continue to do well; I certainly hope so. It will make staying in contention easier.
Why would it not be Jo-Jo sent down?