ESPN – Braves vs. Dodgers Box Score, July 4 2007 – MLB
That’s better. It’s still not ideal, as Chuck James only went five innings and the bullpen is still under stress. But it’s a win.
Shutout through four, until Chuck got it started himself with a one-out single. Escobar doubled to make it second and third, and Chipper picked up Renteria (who grounded out) with a single up the middle to make it 2-0. The Dodgers cut it to 2-1 with a two-out run scoring double in the bottom of the inning.
The Braves got two more runs in the sixth. Francoeur doubled, Diaz singled, and McCann hit a long single to score Jeff. After Saltalamacchia struck out, Bobby hit for Chuck (only 76 pitches into the game) with KJ, who walked. Escobar almost got one into the gap to break it open, but wound up with a sac fly.
Fredo came in to pitch the bottom of the inning and promptly gave up a double to Kent, again. After an infield single, he was lifted for Moylan, who walked the bases loaded but followed with a double play and a groundout to hold the Dodgers to one run. Andruw got the run back with a homer in the seventh.
Kali allowed a two-out single in the seventh, Soriano got them 1-2-3 in the eighth, and Wickman got the first two in the ninth. But he walked the third man (I thought the 2-2 pitch was a strike) and Furcal hit an infield single that only he might have prevented. Wickman rallied and struck out the pinch-hitter to end the game.
ADDENDUM: Maybe Bobby is thinking about starting Chuck on three days’ rest on Sunday, since Smoltz can’t pitch and neither (for different reasons) can Davies?
you know mac, maybe if we put andruw in the “dog house” he’d snap out of this. his play in the field is fine, but we really have no other source of recourse with which to shame him. i just don’t see an “andruw-meter” as a viable option.
Mac, you think Bobby’s going to get Davies dumped? After his comments yesterday, I can definitely see it. Could JS have a trade lined up, and if it falls through, he goes with James on three days rest? Of course, if he gets James on short rest, he’s got more than a week to pull a deal before he needs a 5th starter. Come on Javier Vazquez…
It all kind of adds up. JS had a trade involving Davies lined up, but Davies stinks up the joint, GMs involved decide they want to get more out of the trade (according to Crasnick), so the Braves are stuck with Davies and Bobby vents a little bit to the AJC.
I doubt JS trades Davies. He sucks now, but he’s still 23. His value right now is at an all-time low, but he still has room to improve. He has options I assume, so I send him down for him to figure out how to get professional baseball players out, and if he ever does that, I replace Carlyle down the road with him. In the process, I trade whatever it takes without mortgaging the future to get a Javier Vazquez/third-starter-type. This is purely subjective, but I do that stopping short of shipping Saltalamacchia. He’s atleast my first baseman (if not catcher) for the next 10 years, if I can sign him to a McCannesque long term contract.
We have to thank the Rockies.
I still believe Davies will turn into a good pitcher, but he has to have more confidence in himself.
Rob, Kyle never has any problem getting AAA batters out. He has proved it twice, and it will just be a waste of time sending him back to Richmond again.
And Mac…I can’t believe you stayed up this late!!!
Davies has the worst career ERA of any active starting pitcher. Trade him, option him, DFA him. Just get him off the roster already.
James already only goes 5-6 innings. Pitching him on 3 days’ rest seems a recipe for disaster. I’d look more for a Vulture or Ledemeza spot start or somebody called up from the minors.
Rob Cope,
Your ready to sign Salty to a 6 year 36 million dollar deal after a hundred at bats?
Well, if Rob isn’t, I am. I definitely think Salty maybe the guy who takes the mantle from Chipper as leader of this team, down the road. I also think that we don’t have to spend big bucks on a first baseman and Salty can handle the load full time. I think we can all agree that Scott Thorman is a lefty pinch hitter at best.
As for Kyle Davies, we maybe forced to try him out the rest of the year since the starting pitching market is drying up. If he continues his ineptitude, we are going to have to dip back to Richmond for replacements. I don’t care how old Davies is, if we can find a taker for him, trade-wise, dump Kyle. I see things out there in terms of command, confidence that will look bad at any age.
Also, I haven’t been on for several days but not sure if this rumor has any credence:
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/rumors/post/Great-interest-in-Texas-relievers;_ylt=AlRimvkepeFg01HeieW6eZkR0bYF?urn=mlb,38203
I wouldn’t touch Gagne with a 10 foot pole but I would love to have Otsuka.
The Braves don’t really have relief problems though. If they don’t get starting pitching, the relieving won’t matter anyway.
I think it is tough to call Thorman at best a pinch hitter. This is his first season in the majors. I agree that Salty has way more upside, but I wouldn’t be suprised if Thorman becomes a solid 1st baseman someday.
We have only two guys in the minors as far as pitching that would be worth giving a shot, Jo-Jo Reyes and Matt Harrison. Both are having pretty good years, though it seems the Braves are a little higher on Reyes who is now in AAA.
Alex R. Why would you give him a contract like that when A. has about a hundred at bats, B. you own his rights for many years at major league minimum.
Come on guys, he looks like a great talent but this is getting carried away.
For what it’s worth I think he’s going to be the Braves 1B for a while, but to say he’s the next Chipper Jones is kinda foolish. He might be, but you can’t justify that comment at this stage of his career.
“I trade whatever it takes without mortgaging the future to get a Javier Vazquez/third-starter-type.”
Rob,
While you are at it, why not ask Alyssa Milano to stop by your room and bring dinner? There is no way to get a Javier Vazquez without mortgaging the future. That’s the point–if there was, JS would already have done so. I suspect that JS will pull a deal for a lesser starter (a la Mark Redman?) and hope that McDowell (?) can get something out of him, like what the Cardinals did with Jeff Weaver last year.
I don’t think the cavalry is coming to the rescue anymore and even if it did, the Braves likely need more than one cavalry rescue, especially if Smoltz is out (and despite what he says, how much can you rely on a 40 year old pitcher with a bad shoulder)? You have Chuck James, who specializes in pitching five innings, Kyle Davies (enough said), a journeyman, and Tim Hudson, who is good but hardly dominant.
The only reason the Braves are even alive is because the Mets suck too. What a pathetic division.
Marc,
I agree, if the braves want to compete they must trade for at least one but prob. two starting pitchers and must trade some of their top prospects. If we don’t get starting pitching help we are wasting our time this year.
I agree with the artist. Salty has great potential, but it is silly to think about a long term contract until he has at least one full productive season for Atlanta.
Otherwise, I am not sure that Davies really has an upside–because he appears to have reached a plateau–he is a consistently terrible starting pitcher. Trade him? Sure–but we might get even less than we did for Langerhans. The key thing is to get him out of the rotation….
I do not like to see pithers rushed to the majors and get ‘devined”–but Reyes is hot and Harrison (who may have hit a respectable plateau at AA) might improve with the stimulus.
That said, I would not be surprised if they bring up Barry or Hodges and use the All-Star schedule to rest Smoltz and see if he revives….
Davies just looked awful the other night, hopefully it’s rust. But then I got thinking, i can’t remember outside of the Mets and Red Sox (1st career start) a start he looked good in.
Kudos to our relievers!
They are being asked to do more than their fair share of work and are coming through for the most part.
Moylan may have saved the game by wriggling off the hook in the 6th.
Kali looked absolutely dominant in the 7th.
Soriano needed 8 pitches for a perfect 8th.
And while Wickman made the 9th look interesting, he got the job done. The walk was questionable and the hit was of the infield variety. Outside of Florida, he has been solid.
#11 – true about the relief problems, but if we could get another dominant reliever we could move Soriano to a SP and that might be just as good if not better than getting a different SP thats on the market.
I just think its funny that there is only one person that has been worse, over the last 40 starts, than Davies in the majors and that person is Mark Redman…Sorry Davies doesnt belong here, I hope he can go back to AAA and beat up on some batters again. Do whatever it takes to get him off this roster for this year
csg, you can’t just take a set up man and put him in rotation in mid season. Someone like Villareal is different b/c his arm strenght is built up and he’s basically used for long relief. Even him you can only get 5+ innings from. Soriano may be a good SP in the future but we can’t ask him to do something he physically can’t do right now.
I agree about Davies.
Well, you know what, I’d rather “waste time” than mortgage the future.
Sam,
And thats fine, just like the Braves won 1 world series with all those division titles. Bet you would trade 3 world series and 6 or 7 division titles for 1 world series and 14 division titles.
Heres thinking if the braves would have been more aggressive over the years they would have won at least one more world series championship.
But the stakes are higher now. Being aggresive could destroy what chances this team has for a long time.
Unknown, you may be right, but if thats what he’d rather do and he’s mentioned it, then I’m up for it. I wouldnt advise it, but its not my decision either. Just a suggestion
I dont see the point of pulling James after 76 pitches if we arent thinking of bringing him back on short rest. Why put that much more toll on the pen? Bobby, must be looking back at the Detroit game and he saw where James got roughed up after the 5th against them. Lets face it, James on short rest is better than Barry anyday
I can see your point, I wouldn’t trade Salty. But i’d consider trading Escobar, only for a pitcher who we can have for a couple years. Not a rent a player.
Then you have to think about contract raises that players on the roster get next year and wonder if we will be able to afford that pitchers salary after this year.
im just happy we were able to win last night, tonight will be tough. But I think we can get after Penny!
csg, I know he mentioned it, but he was referring to next year and either being a CP or SP. I agree that he would be a good SP but don’t think it’s possible this year.
Bet you would trade 3 world series and 6 or 7 division titles for 1 world series and 14 division titles.
Not to speak for Sam, but I wouldn’t make that trade, myself. Would you rather cheer for the Marlins (or D-Backs), or the Braves?
I don’t think I’d be able to stand rooting for the Marlins. I’d eventually be wondering why we can’t put some money into that team or keep our good players for a long time.
without trading Renteria, Hudson, or Wickman we’ll have no salary room. Just by dropping Druw that pays for Smoltz and Hudson’s increases. I dont see Wickman back in Atl after this year. I’m ready for Hampton to go, can he just retire
But no, I wouldn’t make that trade.
It would be great to trade Escobar for a pitcher who could make a difference–but I don’t see it. The Braves will have to part with more than Escobar to get quality pitching.
I would hate to see the Braves trade away future assets and get mediocre players; we would remain frustrated in 2007 and even worse in the coming years.
To be `aggressive’ might well mean trading Salty, Andrus, Reyes Campbell, etc.–in which case it had damn well better pay off…
That’s what I’m saying. If it doesn’t REALLY help us, we may as well just sit on our laurels and hope that particular players break out of their ruts.
It may not be the best thing to do, but it sure is a hell of a lot better than a repeat of a Farnsworth or Drew trade.
Scanning the about posts:
We WILL NOT sign Salty to a McCann deal for a few more years!!! We had McCann for a full season and a half and that was a first for JS. Salty looks like a great PROSPECT and I do not want us to trade him, but lets not pour the anointing oil just yet. When we can have him again next year for 380,000; why would we give him 36 mil?
“Bet you would trade 3 world series and 6 or 7 division titles for 1 world series and 14 division titles.”
I agree with J Leeds. I wouldn’t make that trade. The braves teams were designed for the regular season, when they had 4th and 5th starters that were very good. Once they got to the playoffs it didn’t matter anymore, you only need three good pitchers to win. At least that is my take.
And it was uncanny that every season since 2000, there was always someone hotter than the Braves. The playoffs as they are designed right now is a crapshoot.
I wouldn’t want to trade for the Blue Jays (2 WS titles and no playoff appearances since), but I would probably trade some of the divisions for a couple more WS titles or at least WS appearances. Obviously, of course, you can’t get to the WS if you don’t make the playoffs.
I think a team in the Braves’ current situation (mid-market with a fixed payroll and fairly stagnant attendence)has to be very careful about being too aggressive in a given year. The Expos tried that in the early 2000s by trading away a lot of talent, including either Sizemore or Hafner, for Bartolo Colon and look where they are now. Realistically, if you aren’t the Yankees, Red Sox, etc, you are sometimes going to have to bite the bullet for a couple of years rather than giving away young talent for mediocre veterans to make a run. I might think differently if the Braves were playing well and just needed a piece to put them over the top, but given Andruw’s struggles and the other problems that I see with this team, I wouldn’t give up too much for a possibly quixotic run this year just because the Mets are struggling too. And I wouldn’t put too much faith in the idea that, well, the Cardinals won with 83 wins, so we can do it too. I think you have to look at the big picture and I doubt too many 83 win teams are going to win the WS.
This trade talk is depressing as well. We all want a Ferrari but can only afford Pinto. Even with trading in our current ride.
Then how about we stow all the trade talk because we know we can’t get a Ferrari and save up for when we can?
That will be about two-thousand and never. But I don’t mind dreaming every now and then.
I was excited for 3-4 good starters at the beginning of the year. Now we only have 1.5. Considering that, we’re not doing that poorly.
Funny people, I guess I would rather win more world series and less division championships then all those division championships and one world series. I’m all about winning the big one and don’t really care about those division championships.
Don’t compare the braves with the marlins/bluejays as I am still saying they would have won 6-7 division titles where those teams didn’t do crap after the world series wins. Two completely different situations.
I’m basing this off of the fact that i’m a huge steelers fan and they won many AFC North divisions and always lost the AFC title game. When they won the super bowl two years ago it was great. Last year they missed the playoffs but it was worth it as they won the big on the year before.
Sure, i’d trade a WS title this year for three .500 seasons to follow any day of the week. Just not that satisfied with Division Championships alone.
count me in the “don’t move Soriano” to the rotation camp, i’d rather have a dominant closer type than an ok starter who has a history of injury. if he goes down you kill yourself in both areas.
Kyle needs help, McDowell clearly isn’t the answer, and bobby has lost his patients with him. I’m not ready to throw the towel in on him but he needs a change,
“Davies has posted a 7.49 ERA in his past 23 games (21 starts). The Braves are 6-17 in those games.”
http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/ajc/braves/entries/2007/07/04/braves_need_win.html
he’s killing us in the W/L column and in the bullpen.
Now that Perlozzo got the ax in Bmore. You think we can sway Mazzone back to the Braves? Roger isn’t the magic man that Mazzone was.
Who says that Mazzone will work now? He couldn’t work his magic in Baltimore. Why is he the magic bullet all of a sudden?
But we have no alternative to Davies than to Devine someone like Harrison or Reyes. Or maybe that 16-year old kid they just signed. *laughs*
i don’t think mazzone is the answer either, maybe we could get one of the maddux boys.
sam,
“devining” would be more like bringing in harrison to start game 7 of the WS and him getting shelled.
i’ve never seen a guy give up as many slams in so few appearances, i felt so bad for devine.
I’m not saying he will work, rather that he could work. Roger obviously isn’t doing all that well, not that it is all his fault necessarily.
Besides, BMore is a completely different beast than the Braves. No one has been able to right that ship, and probably won’t be able to for at least a few more years. Mazzone went up there to coach with his friend, and his friend was a terrible head coach. Now that Perlozzo is gone, what’s keeping Mazzone from walking?
Very Important Question:
What if DANNY got an IPhone?
@43…Bobby has completely lost his confidence in Davies…you can tell by his postgame comments that he was pissed….
Unknown,
I said 10 years. A McCannesque contract was five years, I believe. I would basically treat him like they treated McCann. If after two full seasons (or 1 1/2 like with McCann), Salty is the real deal, I would sign him to a contract similar to Brian McCann’s. While we’re paying more for Brian McCann now, we’re going to be paying significantly less down the road. He’s signed for, what, $5M a year? That’s a steal. I think Saltalamacchia is the man, and I would much rather sign him longterm than Francouer. Yeah, yeah, 100 ABs, but the guy has awesome minor league numbers, and he doesn’t look to be the build to be a fragile type, especially if he’s at 1st.
We can land a Javier Vazquez without mortgaging the future. What did it take to get Tim Hudson? Charles Thomas, Dan Meyer, and Juan Cruz. That was nothing, and we didn’t mortgage the future. I wouldn’t be surprised if JS could pull a trade similar to that. I know the market’s changed since the Tim Hudson deal, but not enough so where we’d have to give up 3 HUGE prospects to get Vazquez.
Mcak, i thNik Dnany wdlnt be eblto GE ta niphnone. Htey ae hrd 2 fnd.
Butt i wld wnat 1 if i cld fnid 1.
The last paragraph was to Marc. Sorry.
The difference between trading now for Vazquez vs. the Hudson deal is that right now there are 15-20 teams who will be in fierce, direct competition for the same handful of players. Ken Williams or any other GM who declares himself a seller in July of 2007 is going to absolutely demand and must receive top prospects for established talent. This is the nature of doing business mid-season. If you want to win now, you must be willing to pay the price.
Has anyone read anything about the kid the Braves signed from Columbia? His name is Julio Teheran, and I heard he was the top pitcher in Columbia. I also think I heard from the announcers last night that he can already throw 92 or 93 and is 16 years old.
Instead of talking about trading Escobar, I wonder if there are any takers for Edgar…
bout time we signed a pitcher who can throw over 90
I found this on Teheran:
http://mvn.com/mlb-braves/2007/07/03/braves-sign-julio-teheran/
Also, Cody Johnson made the Baseball American Prospect Hot Sheet, he comes in at #19:
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/hotsheet/264420.html
CSG…Bingo!! No offense but I can do w/o seeing another Braves starter maxing out at 89 mphlike Davies and 88 like James
It’s funny how a 16 can be a pro in baseball and tennis, but…well nevermind.
Mac,
Wouldn’t it be like bizzaro world for Danny if he got an iphone. He would start to spell everything correctly, but not on purpose.
Davies regukarly touches 93. It’s just straight and it can’t be located.
But what if Danny got a Newton?
Davies fastball locates their bats quite often
Andruws HR got him another week in the cleanup spot, Im sure Bobby will forget about the 4k’s that went along with it. Send him to the Yanks for Philip Hughes
I think Bobby said it best about Kyle’s performance or lack of on Tuesday:
It [ticks] you off, to be honest with you,” Cox said. “You get six runs in the first three innings, you’ve got to win. …
“He couldn’t get anything going. Fastball wasn’t going, for location or velocity. He tried to throw Betemit a change-up after missing up high, and he hits it out.”
I love Bobby…..
Davies fastball AKA “The Souvenir”
With an ineffective changeup forcing him to primarily throw all fastballs, the 25-year-old southpaw still managed to limit the Dodgers to one run and four hits over five innings.
“He didn’t have his best stuff by any means,” Cox said. “But he pitched and did very well.”
Probably why they pulled him…I still cant believe that LAD pitched to Chipper with 1st base open
The White Sox aren’t in the situation of having to trade Vazquez. The A’s knew they could not afford Hudson (and maybe Beane knew that he was starting to decline). In some ways, Vazquez is more valuable than Buhrle because he won’t be a high-priced free agent right away. He won’t be easy to obtain–and, frankly, considering how erratic he has been over the last several years, how much would you give up for him?
Let’s bring back Neikro
I would give up a lot for him. From reports, his contract is manageable and he’s a really solid pitcher. The White Sox don’t have to trade Vazquez, but they had better trade one of their top starting pitchers atleast 30 if they’re going to start rebuilding. Teams know the White Sox are sellers, and yes, while they’re going to be 15-20 teams, who has enough talent to give up to get Vazquez? Who can take on his salary? Who has enough talent but doesn’t have a clear enough shot at the postseason to give up the right amount of talent. I know Charles Thomas, Dan Meyer, and Juan Cruz isn’t going to get us Javier Vazquez, but I think we’re definitely in a position to give up some really solid prospects to get him. How about Harrison, Escobar, and Campbell? Who can give that up and not mortgage the future? I think we can.
You shouldn’t kid DANNY. The first call he got on his iphone was from Keira Knightley. She wouldn’t answer him back and she wore a pirate’s costume, but there she was!
And Johnny Depp joined her, so it must have been a conference call.
Those iphones!
Rob,
I misread it earlier, I still think it’s a little early to be talking about a contract for the kid. I want to see what he does over a full year playing everyday. If he plays everyday next year and hits .333 with 25 homers and 90 rbi’s then yeah, sign him up after next year!
Marc,
I totally agree. Do we really need another head case in Atlanta? That’s what Vazquez seems to be…
Mark Bowman says the Braves will bring up a minor leaguer for Smoltz’s next start. Jo Jo Reyes is the only one mentioned too. Makes sense. He’d start on regular rest and has dominated AAA. And he’s not Hodges or Barry.
Escobar, Pena, and Harrison for Harang
Oswalt replaces Smoltz on the All Star roster
Harang? hmmm
yep, they need a SS badly. They also need a catcher and another SP prospect. Sounds good to me. Im sure they would want Salty and Escobar though
That sounds like a fair deal for Harang
Harang? A 30 y/o pitcher with a career ERA of 4.22…damn, glad you guys aren’t GMs.
Tony, for the sake of my nerves, I am not going to go into the “Why Aaron Harang is a really good pitcher despite his ERA” spiel again. Just note that he plays in a tiny, tiny ballpark for a bad team.
Screw that noise. I say we keep Salty and Esco and rebuild. Trade some deadweight for some minor league pitching prospects and go from there. Two to three years from now we would be back on top of the division. Sure it sucks to wait now but in the long term it’s better for the team than trading a couple future stars for one pitcher we might have around for one or two seasons.
Face it, we aren’t going to win the World Series by trading for one more good starter.
Exactly, Mac. Who cares about career ERA? What does it matter what Harang did in Oakland 4 or 5 years ago when he first broken into the bigs? For the last three years, he’s been a good pitcher, even in a terrible ballpark for pitchers.
I’m not the biggest Harang fan (more neutral than anything), but one has to acknowledge he’s a good pitcher at the moment and has been for a few years.
Will he continue to be? Well, his indicators are all very strong at the moment. I hadn’t actually realized they were THAT good.
I’m warming to Harang.
Okay Mac…I will give you that. He plays in a bandbox, but “a really good pitcher” is taking it too far. He is a good pitcher, but not worth giving up what you guys are talking about. However, 216Ks last year was impressive.
Another useless post by Tony, and Lando says trade some “deadweight” for pitching prospects, which would be great if somebody wanted them, but since they are deadweight its hard to imagine anyone giving up anything useful for them. I hope some common sense returns to this board along with better Braves play.
landogarner,
You are exactly right. If the Red Sox and Tigers told us anything…is that we are not that championship level yet. Sure it’s frustrating, but until our hitters mature, it doesn’t matter who we have pitching. I say compete with who we have at the major league level and minor leagues and build from that.
By dead weight I meant players at positions we aren’t going to need. Not necessarily bad players, dimwit.
What players would that be Lando?
I don’t know. I don’t follow our minor league teams that closely Justin. But I know we have some infield prospects that we wouldn’t need if we kept Esco.
Justin,
Lucky for you, I don’t remember any of your post or do I care to remember. I’m pretty sure they are brilliant though….
Lando, I was in favor of a teardown rebuild last year when it was obvious we were finished in 2006 (say, about late-June), we could still have traded Andruw, and Smoltz might’ve been able to win a World Series in Detroit.
However, who would we move for value now? Andruw has trade veto. Hudson?
I’m just not sure there’s much to be gained by selling at this point. Not to mention that we’re actually in decent shape to win the NL East (that was NEVER the case last year).
What do you think?
I kinda see your point about it being unwise to chase it this year though.
Last year we could have cleaned up dealing vets for prospects. This year, eh.
I won’t entertain the notion of a player yard sale. When you get a chance to win, you should go for it (without giving everything away, of course) because you never know when you’ll get that chance again. I remember 1983 and 1984 all too well.
Whether we pick up another starter or not, the guys we have must play better. There’s no fairy dust.
Also, if we just pick up at least one more game before the break, I can handle that.
Well I don’t think we should sell. Just trade some of our minor league prospects for some pitching that we can develop.
I was in favor of trading Andruw last year also but he can veto any trade he doesn’t like, and since he has always stated he would like to remain a brave, it would be hard to accomplish.
Granted I don’t know as much about about baseball as some of the statheads on this board, but it was pretty obvious to me that we can’t win the World Series, let alone our own division/league, by adding one more good starter.
Every single one of our starters has been inconsistant, except Smoltz and even he has been having problems now with his shoulder.
How bout this –
Escobar, Salty, Harrison for Oswalt
– or –
Renteria, Salty for Oswalt
Astros are horrible at catcher and SS (on offense that is). I really wouldn’t want to trade Salty, but for Oswalt I would make an exception (especially since he is signed for a few more years). Renteria would probably make more sense as we would have to dump some payroll though.
…and just so you know – it is a hypothetical situation – I don’t think the Astros would part with Oswalt.
Lando,
If those infield prospects are not good enough to replace Escobar, then they won’t bring in pitching prospects. Escobar is the most expendable prospect at this point. He has good value on the block right now, and trading him wouldn’t hurt too much since KJ is still around. The only problem is that JS would probably only consider trading him in a package for veteran help. JS has a win now mentality, thus why he went for Wickman last year, and Soriano and Gonzalez this offseason.
If Salty is deemed good enough by Booby to be the everyday first baseman, then Thor has a decent bit of trade value as a platoon player. Noone is trading anything of value for Orr and Woodward, and the expendable pitchers don’t have much value at all.
Selling isn’t an option for many of the reasons that Cary noted. The guys who have value can veto any trade and we’re too close to give up. Not to mention the fact that JS and Bobby are getting to the end and I highly doubt either of them will be overseeing any rebuilding projects.
As good as Oswalt is trading Salty, Esco, and Willie for Oswalt is a bit too steep for me.
How many, and what type of draft picks are we looking at when Andruw bolts in free agency?
Justin, apparently we have a couple good infield prospects. According to some people on this board.
I’d rather we just did nothing (well maybe we could play better). Sometimes the best move is not making one.
Lets talk about the game tonight, this trading crap is really getting old. Lets face it some people on this board love Escobar, some don’t, same with Salty. Nothing is going to change their opinion so why are we still typing the same things over and over???
Because some of us like to discuss it? I would think that would be obvious.
Hawkmoon,
My thoughts exactly…
Okay Lando I’ll bite,
Martin Prado- Versatile and light hitting like Escobar, but isn’t seen as being on the same level. Would be a better option than Orr, but he doesn’t have as much speed.
Lillibridge- Not as close as Escobar, more upside than Prado, can play both MI spots, and possibly CF. Has contact issues, as evidenced by his high strikeout totals. Two years away from helping anyone. Future utility player.
Elvis Andrus- The great hope of the Braves system still has a lot of work to do offensively, but is already thought to be ML ready with the glove. Still 3-4 years away at the earliest. Will most likely get a lot more development time before the Braves would entertain moving him.
Those are the three that possess real prospect value, and Prado has more value as a backup for the Braves than a trade chip, at this point in time. The point I am trying to make Lando, is that there is no point trading these guys for pitching prospects at this time.
And what about Campbell? He’s one of our top prospects isn’t he?
If and when Andruw bolts for free agency he is definitely a Type A free agent… a couple of high picks for him depending on who signs him.
And I said days ago this board had been an [angry] broken record as of late.
Lando, you’ve been brutal lately.
GM in training Justin just will not let it go…Mercy.
About tonight’s game, I think the Braves have a decent shot against Penny. 10-1 with 2.00 ERA is impressive, but for some I think the Braves will do OK. I just hope we have the on Huddy…
The Braves should traded Andruw Jones last year. But Smoltz? The face of the team who the Braves just extended? No way.
Lando, hardly anyone other than you and Yunel’s mom thinks Escobar is a future star. I’d trade him for Harang every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Problem is the Reds aren’t that stupid.
Tony, depends which Huddy shows up tonight.
Josh, thanks. I was confused about the picks. I was thinking we would get the first rounder of the team that signed Andruw plus two supplemental picks. 3 extra picks would be nice. Hopefully next year’s draft is deep, but I haven’t heard one way or the other on the quality of the 2008 draft.
I’m the only one who thinks he will be a star? Even after that 10 pitch at bat he had in the 9th the other night?
Weird.
What’s this rumor about Devine being called up? Anyone heard anything?
I’m just curious Dan…what has Yunel done to some of you guys? Is it because he is an illegal immigrant? I don’t get the hostility some of you have toward this guy…it makes no sense at all. I mean if you think the guy is not that good, well fine…but some of the comments have been mean-spirited and unnecessary.
As an aside, I went to the Nats-Cubs game yesterday and the Nationals crushed Rich Hill. I know it’s one game and pitchers have bad games and all, but, still, considering what Hill has done to the Braves, I found it rather disturbing that the Nationals, of all teams, would bomb him. I think the Braves have more holes than just starting pitching.
Here’s the details on what we’d (probably) get for Andruw.
Andruw’s new team’s first-round pick (if it’s in the back half of each round in the next draft) or its second-round pick (if it’s in the front half of each round), plus a supplemental pick between rounds one and two.
I think Lando and Tony are the same person.
Marc,
I was there also yesterday and was thinking the exact same thing. That’s why I still say this team must mature at the plate before we say we are 1 or 2 starters away. When Dmitri hit that slam, it was cool how RFK erupted…
Tony, here’s what Yunel’s done to me… he’s played over his head, which I think is fantastic, because it boosts his trade value. I wish him nothing but the best, especially if the best results in a starting pitcher for us.
Josh,
my boss just got back from vacation so my patience is kind of thin at the moment. No excuse though, my bad.
So, just two picks for Druw? I was hoping for three.
One thing that bothers be about younger Braves is every one of them outside of maybe Salty and maybe McCann have obvious holes in their game.
Frenchy: Patience (duh)
Thorman: No contact skills and sucks
Escobar: Supposedly not good enough at SS
Johnson: Streaky like woah
Davies: Sucks
James: No stamina
McCann: Sucky defense and slumping (as of late)
It seems like all these guys COULD be stars (McCann most likely) in a best case scenario, but at the same time they all have huge holes in their game they have gotta fix. I have no doubt Thorman COULD be a .260/.370/.550 1B, but it’s not anywhere close to likely. And that sucks a lot.
I still blame Pendleton.
One thing I’ve always wanted to do ever since I was little was roll Pendleton down a hill. That roly poly fucker would totally go for miles.
JoshtotheMax,
I couldn’t have said it better myself…NEW THREAD HAS BEEN STARTED.
Escobar isn’t an illegal immigrant because of America’s “wet foot, dry foot” policy in regards to Cubans.
I just don’t think Escobar is so special that we keep him regardless of if the Braves can get a solid starting pitcher for him. Plus if Escobar goes that damn second base platoon goes too.
Can we make TP the scapegoat for everything that goes wrong? Everytime Andruw strikes out with RISP we should put TP in the doghouse.
Here’s the deal with Salty. I am a big fan and like what I’ve seen thus far.
However.
Salty’s value to a team at 1B is far less than his value as a Catcher. We already have a great Catcher in Brian McCann.
For now, it’s fine because Salty is cheap, but to maximize his value, we will need to trade him. Salty should be behind the plate somewhere else unless he is going to be a Top 5/Top 10 MLB 1B for us. That means stroking 35+ HRs a year. Don’t know if I’d be willing to bet he can do that, but who knows?
So I wouldn’t trade him now unless the right deal came along (which I seriously doubt), but there’s probably a good fit out there for a team with a need at Catcher between this offseason and next.