ESPN – Nationals vs. Braves Box Score, June 26 2007 – MLB
It’s a lot different playing bad NL teams instead of good AL teams, that’s all I’ll say. Buddy Carlyle probably agrees. Instead of the Red Sox, he got the Dead Expos, and had a very strong outing, seven innings of one-run baseball, striking out six with only one walk. The run came in the third, on a ground rule double by Ryan Langerhans of all people. In case you were wondering how bad the Nats are, they had Langerhans leading off.
The Braves got the run right back on a solo homer from Saltalamacchia, who started at first base against a lefty. He gave them the lead in the fifth with another solo homer. Then the most remarkable thing happened: Andruw hit a three-run homer. It was his only hit of the night, and he’s still at .198, but it’s a start.
Yunel Escobar is apparently platooning with KJ now, or at least that’s how it looks; he led off and had two hits. McCann went 3-4 and scored the Braves’ last run in the eighth. Kali pitched well in the top of that inning, but Moylan ran into trouble in the ninth, and Wickman had to get up and get the save.
As bad as Andruw has been, and he has been awful, he’ll probably still lead the team in rbi’s. I guess that’s another indictment of rbi’s as a metric for judging players.
I love Scott Schoenweis.
4-3 Cards in the 11th.
Is KJ really being platooned? Really?
Bobby does some funny things sometimes.
Like acknowledging the existence of Pete Orr and Woodward. Hell I’d rather have the big Hawaiian rookie dude up there than have Woodward playing 1st.
Met meltdown in the 11th. 5-3 Cards now.
Adam –
It’s on the Braves official site that Cox wants to platoon at 2nd, stating that he just can’t sit Escobar right now. KJ doesn’t seem too happy and I don’t blame him.
After Hall & Oates, the only logical musical movements are as follows:
1.) Air Supply, et al.
2.) The Pina Colada Song by The Guy Who Looks Like a Creepy Accountant
3.) Afternoon Delight
4.) Phil Collins and Eddie Money, or any hybrid of the like.
5.) Richard Marx (for the sweep?)
More Hall. Lots more Oates.
Cox really loves him some platoons. That makes three of ’em. Good grief.
Well, with that 673 OPS, I can see how Escobar got Bobby’s attention.
Afternoon Delight is only okay when sung by Ron Burgundy.
Gotta have some Leo Sayer in there somewhere.
Man, I LIKE this winning thing.
Tomorrow’s game thread is already written and it is not Hall & Oates, but if we lose you may get a steady diet from then on.
KJ doesn’t seem too happy and I don’t blame him.
Then hit, and it won’t be a problem. We need runs and since June he hasn’t produced many.
But obviously this is part of JS’s larger campaign for Escobar. “Look how good he is. He’s already forced himself into the lineup!”
Amen, Trace.
I can feel you breathe
I can feel your heartbeat faster.
Take me home tonight!
I don’t want to let you go till you see the light!
Take me home tonight!
Listen honey
Just like Ronnie sang: Be my little baby!
but rob i hardly know you… 😡
Haha, when someone put Eddie Money up there, I had to hit up You Tube and steal the mp3 off our computer in the other room. I’m loving me some 80’s stuff tonight. I’m on Duran Duran right now. Gotta love those James Bond themes…
Yay for the NL Least.
Kyle,
Eddie Money rocked a little bit. He doesn’t belong on that list. “Two Tickets to Paradise” was a pretty good radio song.
Years later, when I saw Soul Asylum do a smokin’ version of it at the Uptown Lounge I felt justified.
Odd Trivia: The Starland Vocal Band—the group that gave us “Afternoon Delight”—actually had their own network variety show. So did The Captain & Tennille. After “Donny & Marie” anything was possible, if you were lame enough, I guess.
Air Supply? I have no response for that.
But if it’s lame-o soft-rock videos that’ll make the Braves win, I’ll listen to “Baby, Ima Want You” and “Feelings” all summer long.
It really is that simple, isn’t it Robert? If KJ were hitting he wouldn’t be in the situation he is in.
I’ll give you an awesome ’80s song:
“Your Love”, by The Outfield.
Did anyone know that Julio Franco has started at 3B twice this year for the Mets? ZOMG.
Hopefully the KJ Escobar platoon is just an attempt to show teams Escobar can handle second base defensively. This way JS can get a little more value out of him before a trade.
“Baby, Ima Want You”
We could stock a two-week winning streak just from “The Best of Bread”. If I was taking a cross-country car trip, I’m secure enough in my manhood to say that CD would be purchased for the trip, and played at least twice. We’re gonna wuss-rock to the WS!
My best friend’s mom dated Bread when she was in high school.
That explains the yeast infection.
Stu,
All of ’em, or just David Gates?
Odd fact: I have a really good friend who introduced the guy from Air Supply to his future wife.
ububba,
Gates.
sansho1,
Very nice.
And does anyone have any suggestions for getting “Promiscuous Boy” out of one’s head?
At this point, I’d like to replace the song with a bullet, but I’m open to other possibilities.
nice sansho1
beat me too it stu
Sorry, Stu, I was just watching M*A*S*H* and channelling Hawkeye’s comic timing.
#29
Try whistling the opening theme to “The Odd Couple”. Works for me.
http://odd_couple.tripod.com/sounds/
Though I hate The Little River Band, Peter Moylan might like them, seeing as they’re from the same part of the world.
By the way, The Starland Vocal Band played at my Junior-Senior prom at Avondale High in 1977. I have no regrets about not going.
I remember The Commodores (from Tuskeegee, Ala.) playing proms in Columbus, Ga., when I was in grade school.
The only song I remember from my HS prom was when the band played Led Zeppelin’s “Moby Dick,” and I said to my date, “What’s wrong with these guys?”
Stu,
Are your mother’s people from Oklahoma?
I’m lucky to have a great local radio station that plays the hits from the 50’s, 60’s, 70’s and 80’s. Their programming is basically one song for black folks and then one song for white folks. “Radioooo, for all of us”, is the tagline.
So I get sets like Staple Singers/Bonnie Tyler/Midnight Star/Rundgren. And they carry the Braves, too.
I’m just a total sucker for a great pop song with fantastic production. They just don’t make tracks like that anymore.
url,
That’s rare. Most radio is segregated & boring anymore. I remember when you could listen to Willie Nelson’s “Blue Eyes Cryin’ in the Rain” next to Earth Wind & Fire’s “Shining Star” next to Aerosmith’s “Dream On.”
Now you seem like a freak if you like more than 2 different genres.
BTW, speaking of great radio, I get my sickest, most twisted jollies when one of the big NYC sports team is doing lousy and its apoplectic fans begin calling WFAN here in NYC.
Tonight’s theme: Yankee Suicide Hotline.
There may be something wrong with me, but it never fails to amuse to hear these people get so bent out of shape.
Yeah, it’s pretty dang amazing, actually. They even have a really good gospel show on Sunday. Community radio at it’s best. Who knew?
I know what you are saying about the freakouts. I ran a DV call this past weekend and it was like an episode of C0ps. So funny, and so sad at the same time.
I’m sure there’s a Yogi Berra quote that fitws but I don’t know what it is…
Here in the bright light of morning I make my most reverent plea:
No Richard Marx!
They’re only human ballplayers. We can’t let them be responsible for the cataclysm invoking Richard’s music would unleash. The destruction-the mass suicides-dogs and cats living together…
What? Coffee? Sure!
Better now. But please, no Richard Marx. Especially that one about the pretty girl drowned in the river.
And that’s why I
Ok I’m not typing that again. Stupid post kasplode.
Don’t worry about Escobar platooning with KJ. Chipper will go on the DL again soon enough and Escobar will be back at 3rd.
Another platoon? Why does Cox insist on this BS?
Hopefully the “can’t keep him out now” comment means an Escobar trade soon.
I think they solution for next year is to pay Ricky Henderson to take Gregor Blanco under his wing during the offseason. Not only could it result in the Braves having a premier leadoff hitter, but our new corporate overlords would have at least 4-6 episodes of next fall’s cant miss reality series.
Ricky done got that Mets kid hitting leadoff right, Ricky can teach anybody, if they end up being 20% as good as Ricky is, that’ll be better than anyone in the majors. Ricky gives the Ricky Guarantee, if your boy cant hit leadoff with a .390 OBP by the end of winter, Ricky will come play and hit leadoff and do it for you.
ububba,
Well, it’s my best friend’s mom, not mine, who dated David Gates and, no, she grew up in Nashville.
Insurance for Hampton: Braves general manager John Schuerholz hopes to learn in the next couple of days whether or not insurance is going to help cover at least a portion of the $14.5 million salary owed to Mike Hampton, who is missing a second straight season while rehabbing from left elbow surgery.
“We should know soon,” Schuerholz said. “We’re hopeful
Please, pretty please. Maybe we could get Buerhle and use this money to sign him for a couple of years. Hampton will be off the books after next year and we would be fne after that
I think that Escobar’s playing this much to showcase him as trade bait. He’s the best bait they’ve got, assuming that Salty’s off-limits (and I think he is). The more positions he shows he can handle, the more teams will be interested in him.
csg,
you’d think it would be simple, they take out a policy, he gets hurt, they collect…that’s insurance for you.
If they want at-bats for Escobar their are plenty available in AAA. That’s why you have Woodward and Orr on the team; they’re not going to get any better or worse on the bench. Replacing him with Pena (and I am NOT a Pena fan) makes so much more sense with Chipper playing and the need for Salty to get more playing time. If Chipper goes on the DL, then you can call up Escobar.
I am not usually critical of Cox, but I think it sends a bad message to your players when a guy steps up and produces gets platoon duty so that the “hot prospect” who is not performing gets some at-bats. Cox won’t sit Frenchy either, yet Kelly has had a far better season. My wife says he’s better looking too.
KJ: OB=.373 SLG=.451 AVG=.271
8 hr 37 RBI
Franc: OB=.318 SLG=.411 AVG=.273
8 HR 46 RBI
Pretty similar JC except Johnson gets on base a whole lot more, but I guess it’s the case of what have you done for me lately…and unfortunately KJ wasn’t setting the table consistently enough. Let’s be frank about this…Yunel and Salty are the #1 and #2 prospects the Braves have. And Francouer was also a TOP PROSPECT. KJ and Thorman were never rated highly and you can see why. Let’s not forget a couple of years ago, Langerhands beat out KJ for the left field job b/c KJ was way too inconsistent. I like the speed and Escobar and Harris provide at the top of the order. Good job Bobby. I like KJ in RBI situations down in the order. I don’t see him ever being a .300 hitter.
MLBTradeRumors says a Buehrle extension with the White Sox is near and the Braves have been scouting the White Soxs’ Javier Vasquez.
Speedy leadoff hitter=extremely overrated.
I’d take a .400 OBP and five steals over a .300 OBP and 40 steals in the leadoff spot anyday.
KJ does not appear to be either.
is Davies hurt? I thought I heard that during last night’s game, who will replace him if he’s hurt? Villareal?
beedee, you would think the insurance would be that easy, apparently not. I mean he didnt even step on the field this year
alright, i think we can all agree that kelly has exceeded expectations at 2B and has had his moments at the plate.
JS is obviously trying to shop escobar so KJ needs to take it like a man and realize it’s not forever. it could be worse…they could trade him instead.
csg,
they are moving everyone up on day and skip his spot in the rotation.
Beedee, I actually was thinking the same thing. Whats really keeping them from shopping KJ, will Escobar bring us more in return? Is KJ really the longterm option at 2B?
As for Javier Vasquez bring him on.
Dan, I would take the OBP anyday over the couple of steals that we are missing. KJ is a streaky hitter and that might be the only downfall for him leading off, but he still works the count no matter how he’s hitting. Cant say the same for Francouer
if they do trade kj then that could finally move JS jr into real stiking distance of the club…scary
Cox said Saltalamacchia will start at first base again on Wednesday. It appears the plan is to put him at first base in place of Scott Thorman during any game that the opponent is starting a left-handed pitcher.
Now our platoon situations look like this.
1B Thor/Salty
2B Kelly/Yunel
LF Harris/Diaz
C Salty catching every 5th day
but our two black holes CF and RF get to keep putting up garbage numbers, but yet they play everyday. Unbelievable, but hey we’ve won two straight and got Smoltzie tonight to close out a sweep. Whatever works
let’s win one for the smoltzy!
JS has been a Javier Vazquez fan for years now–I remember he was rumored to be heading to Atlanta right before he ended up a Yankee.
It would come as no surprise that the Braves are about to acquire his services. I just hope that the cost is not a Salty one…
Trade Orr. Play Escobar.
just release Orr and Woodward and play whoever, they’ll be better
i doubt we’d know he was on the team even, if escobar got all of orr’s at bats
I don’t see why anyone would trade for KJ…if he can’t hit .285 and above…I don’t see his value. He not a great defensive player and he has no speed. I said earlier on, if he is the leadoff hitter, he needs to be like Wade Boggs. Remember him the consummate .300 batting avg/100 walks as a leadoff guy. Kelly is at .271.
pesky commas!
I’ll take .285, which is a good avg # for KJ, and 80-90 walks from him. He’s still learning and will get better. As for his defense, its still a new position for him, but he;s far better there than he was in LF. He isnt hurting us at all
Tony, he’s an adequate defensive player, he puts up better-than-average offensive numbers at second, gets on base a lot, and he’s young and cheap. What’s not to love?
I like KJ as our 2B and Yunel as our Betemit.
I like Yunel as Matt Morris.
What’s not to love about KJ? He is hitting .271 not .285 and is in a 13 for 69 slump. He just a little too streaky…
whats your thoughts on acquiring Vasquez. I think he just got a 3 year extension for 34.5 mill. If we trade for him, do we take on the full cost? Or make them eat it? Would you trade Escobar for him?
I don’t care who we get as long as we get rid of Orr and Woodward. They are the bane of my existence.
If we trade Salty I become a fan of whatever whatever team he plays for and forget about the Braves.
wow, that’s a serious crush.
If you’re gonna go with Richard Marx you’ve got to go with “Take This Heart” for the Bob Uecker cameo and getting to watch a legendary mulleted Marx pitching for the Cubs.
JDMaker1…
I agree…Salty has the making of a superstar, not just a star and you don’t trade those.
Orr and Woodward both should be playing everyday…on one of those independent leagues teams. Bobby loves the Keith Lockhart, Pete Orr types…I guess it reminds Bobby of his own shortcomings as a major leaguer.
Matt Morris for Yunel? Nope. Maybe the 2001 Morris when he was 22-8 and dominant with the Cardinals, but not the 2007 version.
It seems like the Braves have been after Vasquez forever. I don’t trust him in the National League for some reason. Too me he has been a consistent underperformer.
If last winter’s pitching market prices are the new going rate, Vazquez is a bargain at $11MM per. He’s a 31-year old power pitcher who would be coming from the AL to the NL. He would vastly improve Atlanta’s rotation and hell yes I’d trade Escobar for him. What’s the big deal about Yunel Escobar, anyway?
The minute it looks like we’ll start losing a bunch of games again, Mac, you better throw “Maneater” up here. It’s the only thing that can save the season.
The big deal about Escobar:
-Big and strong
-can hit for avg, will develop into a decent power hitter
-speed
-has a cannon for an arm and has range
Tony,
KJ’s .370+ OBP is nothing to sneeze at. That’s the important stat for the leadoff guy.
What can I say. I think Salty is going to be good. He’s a big switch hitter that should have some serious power. If his defense gets better he’ll be quite an asset. Reminds me a little bit of Larry Wayne.
Good question Diamond. What IS the big deal with Escobar? The only thing I see him as is a way to get a Morris or a Vazquez.
I don’t know if anyone has posted this yeat. Sorry if they have, but this comes from the ESPN Insider rumor mill:
Buehrle not headed to Boston
Jun 26 – According to a report in the Boston Herald, the Red Sox are now out of the running for left-hander Mark Buehrle.
While it remains unclear as to where Buehrle will eventually end up, the Herald reports the Red Sox are not willing to part with the prospects necessary to make the trade. Chicago is believed to be looking for at least one of two front-line pitching prospects — Clay Buchholz or Jon Lester — in order to part with Buehrle, who will be a free agent at the end of the season.
Though Buehrle is eligible for free agency, sources have indicated that the White Sox have no intention of letting clubs negotiate a contract extension with Buehrle before agreeing to the deal. Such a scenario could leave the White Sox with nothing if Buehrle refuses to sign with another team as a condition of the deal.
One primary reason for Chicago’s unwillingness to allow negotiations between Buehrle and a third club is because it is widely believed that Buehrle wants to sign with the Cardinals after this season. Buehrle grew up in the St. Louis area and has said on previous occasions that he would like to some day pitch for the Cardinals.
ububba,
unfortunately that stat is inflated due to his torrid start…for June that OBP is at .319 with a .228 batting avg. That’s almost AJ and Thor territory.
Tony, there’s no way that a team would trade a 20-game winner for Yunel Escobar. He’s not exactly Derek Jeter. 2007 Morris is possibly within reach, and I’d say go for it. Escobar is perfect trade bait: we don’t need him, he’s overvalued at a position of strength for us (Lillibridge and Andrus should be ready in about 2 and 5 years, respectively). Let’s get as much as we can for him.
Tony & Dan, I’m a little bit between the both of you on Escobar. If he develops and ends up with some power (which he has never really had much of) he’ll also be quite an asset. A good replacement for Edgar/Chipper when they both get their AARP cards in the next few years.
Regarding Escobar, I just don’t see anything portending Major-League success. He may survive as a slightly above-average utility guy, but as a regular he is quite stretched. He’s already 24 and only slugged .346 in AA last year. If JS can pull the wool over Kenny Williams eyes long enough to steal Javy Vazquez for this guy, he has committed grand larceny.
Another Alex,
I just think we can do better than 2007 Matt Morris. Maybe I’m wrong.
Tony, you are almost certainly wrong. Escobar doesn’t have that much value. A solid starter like Morris or Vazquez would be a steal for Escobar, who just doesn’t have the secondary skills to be a good regular even if the Braves had a spot for him.
I like a speedy lead off guy that can get on base. He adds some excitement to the line up and forces infielders to hurry throws and makes pitchers throw more fastballs. Plus, this is entertainment
The Braves problem is they lack some excitement in the order. A guy who can spark plug a rally. You have to admitt this is a boring team to watch
KJ’s OBP:
.473 April
.322 May
.319 June
On April 16th, it was .306. After peaking May 1st at .474, its been steadily falling since.
So, when I say I’d prefer a one year wonder in Willie at leadoff over a 3-week wonder, you see what I mean. I like KJ, I think he can be better than Giles was last year. But, I dont know if leadoff is really going to work for him.
If the Braves trade for Vazquez and the Sox agree to eat some of his contract for the next three years, the Braves have to give up at least two top prospects, and a second tier prospect. Probably, something along the lines of Escobar, Harrison, Lillibridge.
Despite his lack of media savvy, Ken Williams is a good GM.
How can Kelly Johnson be a “3 week wonder” when he was one of the Braves’ best hitting prospects in the minors for a long time?
For comparison:
Andruw’s OBP:
.402 April
.286 May
.202 June
Frenchy’s OBP:
.367 April
.319 May
.267 June
Willie’s OBP:
.500 April (4 PA)
.467 May
.407 June
Well Mac…
If Escobar is as bad as you guys think, then we will be lucky to get a journey man pitcher for him. I mean these teams have scounts too you know. They are just not going to up a legitimate starter for a guy “who doesn’t have the secondary skills to be a regular”.
KJ’s two month slump has been discouraging, but I’m not ready to give up on him. I still like Thorman, but I am starting to warm up to Salty at first base. No way Escobar nets us a starter like Vazquez. If we trade for a legitimate starter expect a young pitcher with some upside to be included in the deal.
The hope is that there is a GM out there who will say, “Hey, a .300 hitter!” and not notice that Escobar doesn’t have any power, doesn’t walk a whole lot, and isn’t really a shortstop.
Dan…
I think you answered your question…he was a good hitting prospect in the minor leagues for a “long” time.
And he did get beat out by Langerhans for the leftfield job two years ago. Speaking of prospects…here are the Braves:
1. Jarrod Saltalamacchia, c
2. Elvis Andrus, ss
3. Matt Harrison, lhp
4. Brandon Jones, of
5. Van Pope, 3b
6. Eric Campbell, 3b
7. Scott Thorman, 1b/of
8. Jo-Jo Reyes, lhp
9. Joey Devine, rhp
10. Yunel Escobar, inf
Also..
Best Hitter for Average: Jarrod Saltalamacchia
Best Power Hitter: Scott Thorman
Best Strike-Zone Discipline: Wes Timmons
Fastest Baserunner: Ovandy Suero
Best Athlete: Brandon Jones
Best Fastball: Neftali Feliz
Best Curveball: Cory Rasmus
Best Slider: Joey Devine
Best Changeup: Steve Evarts
Best Control: Matt Harrison
Best Defensive Catcher: Clint Sammons
Best Defensive Infielder: Van Pope
Best Infield Arm: Van Pope
Best Defensive Outfielder: Jordan Schafer
Best Outfield Arm: Jon Mark Owings
Courtesy of Baseball American 2007
i’d give up escobar, reyes and lillibridge for vazquez and money and throw in orr and woodward for free…and pay their contracts, and promise to never say another bad thing about them…ever. please take them, anyone.
Beedee, are you that eager to see the beginning of the Li’l Jonny Era? Because with all those guys gone it’s him and Prado who are left.
mac,
the sooner it starts, the sooner it ends.
lillibridge ain’t all that and i’d rather see him do his jeff blauser impersonation somewhere other than atlanta. escobar is fun to watch and would be better than the two old guys riding the pine but if we can get more for him now let’s do it. don’t we have an option on renty? if so use it. KJ is doing fine at 2B, i don’t think he’ll kill us being in the starting line up.
Mac: I’m ready for anyone but John, JR. Sign me, I played mediocre high school ball. I can hit just as well as Orr and Woodward and field as well as Orr can.
I’d rather give up Matt Harrison than Jo Jo Reyes.
Reyes is doing great in AAA. How far away is he from the majors?
I don’t like all this talk about getting rid of Richmond’s talent. It’s nice to have the home town team win a few games. Going to the Diamond every weekend to watch them get slaughtered like the last 4 or 5 years would just be too depressing.
I like to watch Escobar too…I just can’t help but remember how Vazquez struggled in Arizona. He was garbage. Don’t trust him.
Can’t we con somebody into giving us something valuable for Francouer and just go with a three Jones lineup? There must be some GM out there who has seen the Delta ads and hasn’t figured out he sucks yet.
Brandon Jones hasn’t exactly lit up Mississippi, but he at least seams to have some idea what a successful hitter should be doing.
Reality check: KJ is only 8 months older than Escobar. KJ has now played the equivalent of one full season, and has hit 17 HR. Escobar has hit just 10 HR in over 900 minor league PAs. KJ hit 72 minor league HRs.
There’s almost no chance that Escobar will hit for as much power than KJ. There is a chance he could get on base as often, but .371 is pretty good, and we’re looking at that number after a long slump.
I think they know that, and he’s being showcased. I kinda hope it doesn’t work out, because I like him as Betemit 2.0. But you gotta give up something to get something, and despite our recent offensive struggles, I believe in this lineup more than I believe in the rotation.
Why is Bobby Cox so desperate to give Escobar some of Kelly Johnson’s playing time but not give Saltalamacchia more of Thorman’s playing time? Thorman has struggled much more than Johnson and Saltalamacchia is better than Escobar.
Escobar is being showcased for a trade.
I’d give up any prospect out side of Salty, and maybe him if it were a good deal. We can win now, lets do it.
If last winter’s pitching market prices are the new going rate, Vazquez is a bargain at $11MM per. He’s a 31-year old power pitcher who would be coming from the AL to the NL. He would vastly improve Atlanta’s rotation and hell yes I’d trade Escobar for him. What’s the big deal about Yunel Escobar, anyway?
This is basically my sentiment, too. He’s very versatile and that has significant value—as ububba and others have alluded to—but if you could get a pitcher like Vazquez for him, you’d be stupid not to.
Of course, I don’t think we can actually get a guy like Vazquez for him, so the point is probably moot.
Now, something like Escobar/Devine/Esquivel might work…
Or Dan,
As Bobby said we did get shut out 5 times last week. He could just be looking for something different. KJ wasn’t exactly lightning it up.
Smitty,
I can’t see trading Salty unless we get…nevermind I can’t see trading Salty, b/c right now without him our offense can’t win now I don’t think.
ah, i’ve got it. barry manilow! he could make us 100 game winners.
We need to get whatever we can out of Escobar and a couple prospects…just another Wilson Betemit (and remember how upset most Braves fans where when we traded him.) When JS was on ESPN the other night, it seemed very evident that Escobar is being “showcased” at each infield position. He was right with Marte, Betemit, and now hopefully Esocbar. I believe KJ is a still of great value at 2B and if Andruw, Francoeur, Thorman, etc. were doing ANYTHING, KJ’s slump wouldn’t be as evident. Also, when are we going to hear anything about the PTBNL in the Langerhans’ deal? Is Halsey still a candidate?
Bamachum,
i think they are hoping both parties will forget they ever made that trade.
Bamachum,
Or if Edgar would just stop getting hits…KJ’s slump would not be so evident.
So, why should we expect anything from our current prospects if they all seem to suck and we trade them away anyways?
Mentioned were Marte, Escobar and Betemit. Not to mention random guys we dealt (like Spooneybarger, Langerhans and Thomas) Apparently the Braves suck at turning their top prospects into gold. Thorman, Escobar, KJ, Francoeur are the current batch in the majors and it seems like everyones down on them.
Doesn’t give me much hope for Andrus, Lillibridge, Pope, Campbell, and so on
MlbTradeRumors says Buehrle has signed a four year and fifty million extension with the White Sox.
I’m pretty excited about the Hawks right now. I know that’s unwise. I just think the franchise is in position to take a big step forward over the next couple of days.
On the subject of KJ, doesn’t it seem as though he has maybe been scouted and found to have some holes in his swing, or some other weakness? I know that his minor league track record would argue against that, but it is at least a possibility that he has significant problems, that his slide since April/early May is the result not of a slump or bad luck but of him being figured out. With all the recent discussion on TP, maybe the problem is that nobody on the Braves’ staff is capable of helping him make the adjustment. I love KJ and want to see him successful, but it seems at least possible that he’ll continue to struggle unless he gets some worthwhile assistance, and I am not sure TP is the right guy for that…
Dan, that might make it easier for them to trade him now that he has a deal signed.
I’ve felt like that about the Hawks before. Don’t worry; they’ll screw it up. They always do.
Mike, Brian McCann is from the same draft as Francoeur. I think he’s worked out pretty well.
Stu, what worries me is that if the Hawks pull off the rumored deal as the Suns/Wolves’ partner, they could get Amare Stoudamire, which is great… but still wouldn’t solve the point guard disaster, and would have no picks in this year’s draft and no first-rounder next year.
Yeah, like I said, Ethan, I know such hope is unwise with this franchise.
Oh, and if the Hawks trade the #11 for Luke F-ing Ridnour, I’m going to kill Billy Knight. And no jury would convict me.
I just think the franchise is in position to take a big step forward over the next couple of days.
They are in position of course, and if they would take Horford and Law they would immediately be a force in the lEast. But of course they will take Brendan Wright and Crittenton and be right back in the lottery next season.
Yeah, I agree that the Stoudemire trade creates some gaping holes. I haven’t bothered to figure out what that would do to Atlanta’s cap space, though—it’s possible that they’d have enough room (and with Stoudemire, enough credibility) to sign a good PG.
I’d be quite satisfied with taking Horford at 3, then either taking Law at 11 or trading the pick for Jarrett Jack.
(The two terrifying scenarios I’ve heard: (1) trading the 11 for Ridnour, (2) getting Jermain O’Neal in a mega-trade. I want no part of either of those moves.)
Mac,
I don’t mean overall drafts. I mean, in general, it doesn’t seem like our prospects are working out. There are so many guys who make it to AAA and then just end up getting traded away after they “showcase the skills” in a few major league appearances.
Don’t get me wrong, I love McCann and I actually think Francoeur will be a good player, but there has been a lot of disappointment lately overall.
mike,
that’s baseball man. the braves like taking really young players and that’s always a gamble. it’s always easier to look better when you can afford free agents and let the kids on the farm take their time and develope, or just pay for the kids more likely to be a sure thing. the braves have just not had that luxury since ted sold the team.
Salty and KJ are both still very highly thought of, Mike.
One thing I will say is that we’ve done a piss-poor job of developing pitching lately.
Mac, I’m really afraid they’ll go through with the #11 for Ridnour deal. It’s got Billy Knight written all over it
If they did get Stoudemire, they would still have enough money to maybe go after Billups. That would be my best case scenario.
Nah. It the hawks. We’ll get Brendan Wright and Luke Ridnour. GoHawks 2008!
“Braves suck at turning their top prospects into gold.”
In what way? We have several home grown all-stars on the team, Chipper, Andruw, Smoltz (mostly), McCann. The other all-star calibre players on the team (Hudson, Renteria, Soriano, Wickman) were acquired for “prospects”. Again, prospects into gold.
With a little luck, we’ll have Francournakova straighted evened out, KJ back in the .290’s, and a switch hitting witch at first, all from the system.
If we somehow trade Escobar for Morris or Vazquez, thats pure alchemy.
Outside of Smoltz, Glavine, Avery, Millwood, and a few relievers, the Braves haven’t had a good track record of developing pitchers. Marquis and Schmidt didn’t find success until they left, and the long list of next big things have all failed to pan out. So this isn’t a new trend. On the flip side, when you can run out a lineup of 7 homegrown players, and be compettitive thats a good track record.
Plus the overall percentage, in all of baseball, of prospects becoming what they are projected to become looks roughly similar to Andruw’s BA.
Francournakova.
That’s brutal.
As a Sonics fan, I am praying the Hawks trade the #11 for Ridnour. I don’t know why the Hawks aren’t trying to get Kobe, other than the fact if Kobe has no faith in the Lakers then how could he trust the pathetic Hawks. Joe Johnson and the #3 plus Childress or the #11 seems to be some good building blocks for the Lakers if they want to rebuild.
I am praying the Hawks take Ridnour from the Supes. Durant, baby!
You guys and your love for Escobar is really starting to get absurd. Mac could not be more correct on this topic. If the Braves could get Matt Morris for Escobar, that would be an absolute steal. Look what the Braves got for Betemit last year. Does anybody think he’s better than Betemit ?? He doesn’t even have the power that Betemit does. He won’t hit enough to play 3B, he doesn’t field well enough to play SS, and I’m assuming other GMs have told JS this, and that’s what they’re playing him at 2B to try and convince somebody he can play there, which he might be able to do somewhat close to league average.
As Mac has pointed out before, he’s not going to get much better than he is now. He turns 25 in November if that’s even his actual age.
It’s obvious that he’s being showcased right now. He doesn’t fit into any future plans and I’m fine with whatever they can get for him.
Unless Salty is involved, I doubt the White Sox would cover too much of Vazquez’s contract since he’ll be the top pitcher available. Where are the Braves going to come up with the money to pay for the rest of his contract?
Not resign Andruw.
Stu,
I wouldn’t limit it to just pitching. Betemit, Escobar, Jurries (where the hell did he go?), Thomas, Langerhans, Marte all seemed like they were in order to be productive and it hasn’t panned out.
Beedee, you make a very good and probably very accurate observation. Hurrying guys into the majors (Devine, Francoeur, Escobar, Lerew, I could go one all day…) could definitely ruin a kid’s growing process. Also, needing to rely on guys who have no right be in the majors (Ward, Orr, Ole Tony Pena) is going to kill a team.
It’s been written often that the money saved from Andruw will go to the new CF, raises in arbitration players, and Smoltz’s increase which leaves little to none leftover.
Doubledawg,
Hudson, Renteria, Soriano, and Wickman were already proven when they got here. Atlanta gets no credit for their abilities in the majors. I think everyone would agree on that.
In an unrelated note, ESPN screws the Braves over once again, by moving the July 22 game to an 8:00 pm start, then making them travel to San Francisco and play the next day.
It makes me even more mad that MLB didn’t do anything.
tom,
JS has organized a number of bake sales that would go towards covering the remaining portion of his contract.
“Where are the Braves going to come up with the money to pay for the rest of his contract?”
This years insurance money for Hampton will cover his salary next year. Then Hampton will be off the books and we’ll have some money freed up
Jurries, Thomas, and even Langerhans were never really considered prospects:
Jurries was a steroids-inflated lefty-masher who had one good spring. Thomas had a hot first half of the season in the minors, and the Braves called him up, looking for a spark. Langerhans was a plus defender who Bobby thought would magically learn to hit.
Marte turned to gold in the form of our All-Star shortstop.
I don’t think you have a very strong point here.
While were on this topic,
does anyone know what ever happened to Jurries and Spooneybarger?
mike,
ddawg was saying that prospects were turned to gold for the team by trading them for players who could help the team now.
You guys and your love for Escobar is really starting to get absurd. Mac could not be more correct on this topic.
Shhhhh…you’re ruining it.
whispering We are all in on JS’s scheme to turn Escobar into the hottest infield prospect in baseball. Mac gives token resistance and we all overwhelm him with tales of how great he will be. Vasquez/Morris here we come!
Stu,
Langerhans hit near (if not aboive).300 and smoked 20 homers at Richmond the year before his callup.
However, I’ll agree with you that they weren’t “top” prospects.
beedee,
Good point. I misread that. My bad ddawg. I seriously can’t read today…
Nobody—and I mean nobody—outside of Bobby Cox (and maybe JS, trusting Bobby) thought Langerhans would be able to hit at the Major League level.
Ruffino,
I totally agree with KJ theory.
jj3bagger….
How do you people know this guy will not hit?? It’s amazing to me that everyone seems to know this guy will not hit, but KJ will definitely be a star. What the hell has Yunel done to you people? Why are you comparing him to Betemit? Because they are both black latinos..lol. What is going on? Escobar has hit everywhere he has been, Betemit hadn’t.
Even when Chipper and Andruw are going well they are still overpowered by good pitching in the playoffs. I think we need another proven bat along with a Matt Morris or Javier Vazquez type pitcher. Matt Morris or Javier Vazquez alone, just doesn’t excite me. As Joe Morgan said…once every 5 days.
They thought he would be a cheap place holder until they could find a real outfielder. Which is exactly what he was now that we have Super Mallie Harraz.
I can hit at the major league level.
I think the club had lost hope in Langerhans developing into a major league bat until that last year in Richmond. The power numbers spiked up out of no where and suddenly he was a viable prospect again. It was wishful thinking on Bobby’s part, but he was a popular player.
Manny Acta must be playing some form of managerial Omaha hi-lo because I cant figure out what langerhans is doing hitting leadoff and drawing a pay check.
Tony,
Escobar hit .264 with 2 homers and 45 rbi’s last year in Mississippi. You said he hit everywhere, perhaps if your going to make comments you should know what the heck you are talking about. He also only stole 7 bases while getting caught 9 times.
I’d say it’s worth trading him for top notch pitching, if possible.
I still can’t figure out why any teams throw fastballs to Andruw.
If I had to retire one major league hitter for my life, I’d choose Andruw and throw breaking balls low and away every time. Easy popup/K.
Well, either that or I could just lob it to Woodward…
i don’t think i could hit a 97mph meatball if my life depended on it
Tony, I somewhat disagree…we need a Vazquez/Morris type pitcher to eat up innings, conserve the bullpen, and give a better chance to win than with a Carlyle/Lerew/Cormier every 5th day. We have to make the playoffs and I don’t see us keeping pace with Philly and the Mets without another starter. Add one of those guys and our staff is on par or better than PHI and NYM, combined with the bullpen and nowhere-to-go-but-up play by Andruw & Francoeur, and we are right there in the playoff hunt. Escobar MIGHT be a serviable starter, but if we can package him to claim a middle-of-the-rotation starter, then we’d be stupid not to take that deal, if if aquiring another bat happens, it happens, but I think its low priority. As for the bat, I don’t think we need anymore platooning as it is.
I’m not worried about the Phillies. They are us one year ago. No bullpen whatsoever. Plus, they are the Phillies…
True the Phillies bullpen blows, but their lineup (minus Pat Burrell) will still keep them in the race if the starting pitching holds up, but yeah…I doubt that happens, Hamels will probably struggle moreso after the all-star break.
The Phils don’t bring much to the table besides the top half of their lineup. Helms, Barajas, Burrell don’t scare me. The pitching staff as a whole is a mess and if Myers returns to the rotation as anticipated, the bullpen is completely screwed.
I’d be more worried about a Mets winning streak.
I am more scared of ovarian cancer than the phillies…
Also, maybe the reason why Francoeur doesn’t get a day off despite the fact he can’t hit, is that besides his defensive abilites, he has played in 241 consecutive games, which, as short as it is, has to be one of MLB’s longest active streaks…I know Juan Pierre is the current leader with around 340ish, now that Tejeda and Teixiera got placed on the DL. Francoeur is so frustrating to watch hit…was he brought up too early? Is he just dumb? Does he have to much attention being the hometown kid? He’s really not very valuable right now considering his OBP is up enough to make up for his lack of power comparative to past seasons and in the minors. And I hope the Escobar/Johnson platoon doesn’t last long and we deal Escobar, I really believe KJ will “figure it out” as evidence from HIS minor league numbers. Our stretch of mediocre/terrible teams should help everyone’s confidence and production following a murderous AL schedule.
Smoltz has lost two of his last three starts and hasn’t pitched more than six innings since May 24, when he picked up career win No. 200 against the Mets.
Nationals starter Micah Bowie has pitched well since joining the rotation on a full-time basis on May 25. Since then, he’s 4-0 and the Nationals have won all of his six starts.
Anyone know anything about this Bowie guy?
I mean is there any real reason to try and catch Ripken’s consecutive game streak. Ask Tejada and he’ll tell you its useless! Frenchy needs to sit, if Andruw, Chipper, Renteria, and McCann all need days off then its safe to say Frenchy needs them also
Are you serious?
Bowie is a former Braves farmhand. He threw four innings with the Braves in 1999 then was traded to the Cubs in the Hernandez/Mulholland deal. He’s a natural LOOGY but the Nats are desperate.
sorry, but I was serious. I had no idea
Tony,
I don’t recall saying KJ will be a star, or anything about KJ at all, but I will say now he will be a much better major league hitter than Escobar.
KJ has hit more in his major league career than Escobar has shown his minor league career. They’re the same age (allegedly). Actually KJ is eight months older if you want to get technical.
Since they are the same age, I think it’s fair to compare career minor league stats:
KJ .281AVG/.363OBP/.464SLG/72HR/274RBI/73SB
Pablo Escobar .285/.365/.401/8HR/72RBI/8HR
That’s going into this season. KJ had a much much lengthy track record for hitting, and that’s why people are saying he will hit.
In what amounts to one full season in the big leagues for KJ:
.257/.355/.425/17 HR/77RBI
KJ missed one whole season, they’re the same age and he’s hit better at every level than Escobar.
I was comparing Betemit to Escobar not because they are both Latino, because Betemit was the same age last year as Escobar is this year.
Betemit’s minor league numbers career in case you forgot:
.279/.338/.426/56 HR/343RBI
He also hit more (and for more power) last year for the Braves than Escobar has this year. The only point I was making is that the Braves got Baez and Aybar (which I have a sneaking suspicion the Dodgers knew about his substance abuse issues) for Betemit and people are expecting more than that for Escobar, and it’s not going to happen. If the Braves could get Matt Morris or somebody like that, it would be a steal.
Sorry if I’m whispering too loud, but facts are facts.
I always thought Micah Bowie had a cool name.
I had a Met fan yesterday trying to tell me that “the Phillies are really the second-best team in our division.”
My reply: “Nobody’s any good in our division, but the Phillies are still the Phillies. They’ll win 84 games like they always do.”
Can’t wait to read that SI story on the history of the Phils. Title: “Beautiful Losers.”
Tony @151, I assume that you are not a long time reader of this blog or you would not have referenced anything Joe Morgan says seriously, not to mention that you agreed with the guy.
Re: the Hawks and the rumored Stoudemire trade
Simmons raises a good point in his live mock draft thing with Chad Ford: Since Phoenix owns Atlanta’s first-rounder next year, they’re unlikely to want to set Atlanta up to succeed next season, thereby lowering the value of that pick.
go 76ers!
We’re going to trade our 4 picks for Oden!!
( No we’re not…:-/ )