ESPN.com – MLB – Box Score – Braves at Mets
Where was that before we were 19 1/2 out?
Chuck James had another terrific start, going eight and allowing just one hit and three walks. He only struck out one, but the Mets didn’t make a whole lot of solid contract except to deepest center field, where fly balls go to die. I’ve compared James to Sid Fernandez in the past, and this was the sort of game he’d have at Shea.
James also was in the middle of the offense. In the third, he laid down a bunt with Aybar (in for Chipper for the next week at least) at first and placed it so well it turned into a hit. Both he and Aybar later scored to make it 2-0.
In the fifth, James led off with a walk after being down 0-2. He went to second on a wild pitch and third on a groundout; after Renteria walked, LaRoche (in the third spot) singled him home. Andruw then walked, followed by McCann to score the fourth run. Renteria drove in L’il Tony (running for Ward) with a triple in the ninth for an insurance run. McBride pitched a perfect ninth for the Atlanta Save.
No save with a five run lead.
Atlanta Save. Look in the glossary.
Helluva outting from Chuckie. And let’s not forget what the Mets did to him last time—he didn’t get out of the first inning. A great bounceback game
Ron Darling mentioned it on the Met telecast that James reminds him of Tom Browning. I can see that. I always thought of Fred Norman from the Big Red Machine, a gutsy little lefty who kind of throws with a stiff body.
Smoltz going tomorrow night versus the immortal Oliver Perez. I’ll be there. I’m 2-0 @ Shea this year. Let’s make it 3-0.
I really want to hear Bobby’s no-doubt lame excuse for not letting James have the complete game. There was no reason for that.
Rookie, 108 pitches, that’s why.
Yeah, I was for taking him out. Is a complete game that important?
“Rookie, 108 pitches, that’s why.”
I’d respond, but I fear I’d sound very much like Don Sutton.
Ward? As is Charlie?
nice to get a win like that! too bad we couldn’t have done that earlier in the year!
Too bad we got swept 10 times in a row in June…..
Dan, that made me laugh out loud.
Good win, now let’s get another one.
Go Vols!
Well, Marcus won’t need heart surgury after all. It was only acid reflux, and he could be back in the lineup as early as tomorrow.
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060904&content_id=1645664&vkey=news_atl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl
Great game tonight. I actually got to watch most of it, so I was very glad they made it worth my while. Go Smoltzie tomorrow night!
Pac 10 football is terrible
From heart surgery to acid reflux…..quite a turnaround.
Who did JS trade for Ward?
Luis Atilano, pitcher who will take the mound again no sooner than mid 2007 due to TJ surgury.
by making this transaction, JS proves that he still thinks the Braves have a shot at the WC. That is why he pulled chuckie after the 8th. It is the beginning of september, a month in which we play mostly NL East teams. We are going to need him at his best this month.
Pac 10 football is terrible
Tell that to Arkansas. The thing to remember about all the Pac10-SEC matchups is that they were all in the south. Nothing comes between an SEC AD and his eight home games.
Pads just got a walkoff HR, so we are still five out.
No kidding, Davey. Remind me to never go to the doctor in Philly.
It should have been USC/TN and Cal/Arkansas. Those would have been much better games.
Agreed. Cal has better talent then they showed but they still can’t get the QB positioned straightened out. Why they didn’t come out and pound with Lynch at the beginning of the game is something I’ll never understand. It’s like their coaching staff didn’t think they were good enough to come right at them and ended up calling a lot of gimmicky stuff. Brutal.
USC/Arkansas was the second year of a home-and-home series.
Georgia begins a home-and-home with Arizona State in ’08, I believe. After that, I think we do a home-and-home with Louisville.
“Georgia begins a home-and-home with Arizona State in ‘08, I believe. After that, I think we do a home-and-home with Louisville.”
Coooool…we finally play top 25 out of conf teams.
LSU beat Arizona State in Tempe last year as well.
From espn>
Mets will recall left-hander Dave Williams and from Triple-A Norfolk on Tuesday. Williams is scheduled to start Tuesday night against John Smoltz.
LSU beat Arizona State in Tempe last year as well.
True. That was a scheduled one way home game for LSU before Katrina intervened. Still a good win.
USC/Arkansas was the second year of a home-and-home series.
I hope the Hogs learned their lesson. Seriously, a few teams are doing better scheduling wise with Florida and Georgia leading the charge. LSU, Auburn, and Alabama…not so much.
No conference is willing to put themselves out there more than the Pac 10, which is why they are almost always underrated by the East Coast media. USC’s nonconference is Arkansas-Nebraska-Notre Dame. You won’t find a SEC school willing to do that. Not that they should have to I guess, it’s just more fun for the fans to have a real game every week.
To get back to baseball…
I was looking at some hitter splits, and I noticed some striking similarities between Andruw and Francoeur.
Both generally hit very well, but suddenly suck when they get 2 strikes. According to ESPN (I think before yesterday’s game):
Frenchy – 0-2 count OPS 258, 1-2 count OPS 419, 2-2 count OPS 414, 3-2 count OPS 416
Every other count has an OPS over 826 except 2-1 (740)
Andruw – 0-2 count OPS 500, 1-2 count OPS 359, 2-2 count OPS 356, 3-2 count OPS 1268 (anomoly)
His other counts have OPS’s over 900 except 0-1 and 1-0 (617 and 818)
I realize the sample sizes are small, but does anyone see a reason for such drastic differences? Do they change their approaches, are they pitched differently, or is it just chance?
I’d think most hitters hit poorly with 2 strikes.
Francoeur seems to have done a 180. He walked on four straight, then struck out on three pitches none of which he swung at, then took the first pitch in his third at-bat. In all, eight straight pitches with no swing from Francoeur.
Robert,
The reason SEC teams won’t do that is because their conference schedule is so much tougher than that of any team in the Pac-10. USC’s toughest in-conference game is probably Cal, and we all saw how good they really are this weekend.
Smitty,
Check out my post at the very end of the previous Game Recap Thread. Remember me telling you how Cal wouldn’t get within 14 points of UT? And how you didn’t believe me? There’s a lesson here.
Mac,
Peyton Manning was 4-0 against Alabama. I’m just sayin’.
With 2 strikes, the batter has to guard the plate and swing at anything that is close. When the count is not full, but there are 2 strikes then the pitcher has a big advantage because he can just throw garbage and the batter will swing mostly if it is close.
The change is even more noticeable with power stats because, in General, players are just trying to make contact if it is close. While behind in the count, batters will often strike out if they swing for the fences on a pitch not in the strikezone but almost in the strikezone. This often results in those really long, drawn out at-bats when a player keeps fouling away pitch after pitch. He is just trying to put some wood on the ball somewhere.
Andruw likes to swing at fastballs that are eye-level. However, if the pitcher doesn’t get the pitch high enough, the fans in left field usually find the ball eye level with them while they are holding they’re new souvenir.
A notorious 2 strike pitch is bouncing a curveball in the dirt. For a long time it looks like it is going to be a strike but before it reaches the batter, but the bottom falls out of it and it hits the deck. Frenchy chases those a lot. He also chases fastballs that are a foot outside. He also chases anything low and in or low and out. Heck, he also chases anything that is pitched behind him. He chases the high heat thrown at his chin. He chases a ball that is rolled to home plate from the mound. OK, perhaps i have gone a little overboard and need to stop. I think i made my point with frenchy though.
Georgia begins a home-and-home with Arizona State in ‘08, I believe.
If I’m not mistaken, that 2008 game at AZ St. will be the first time Georgia has played a regular season football game either west of the Mississippi OR north of the Mason-Dixon line in 40 years.
Yeah I noticed the 8 straight taken by Frenchy. He must have something in his eye or something. I’ve never seen that from him before. Those pitches that were balls were definitely reachable with his bat so I can’t figure our why he wouldn’t swing. 🙂 I think he decides before a pitch is thrown whether he will swing or not. I just don’t believe he does very much pitch recognition at all.
Sansho1,
You are a little off. Arkansas in Fayetteville is west of the Mississippi. Last trip there is only a few years ago. Probably Georgia’s trip to Houston to play Univ. of Houston in the Astrodome in 1967 is the last regular season journey west of the Mississippi otherwise (very close to 40 years, but not quite). Absolutely unbelievable performance by Houston’s running back Paul Gipson (and in 1968 in Athens, which I saw).
I am almost certain Michigan in Ann Arbor in 1964 or so was the last north of the Ohio / Potomac.
Mac,
I could be wrong but I think Renteria doubled in the 9th and went to third on a WP.
Frenchy’s approach has looked a lot better lately. It gives me hope that he can develop into a complete player. Don’t give up on him after a year and a half in the majors.
The same can be said for Chuck James. A lot of us were worried about his flyball ratio and homeruns earlier in the season. Lately he’s looked great. He has pretty much secured a spot in the rotation for next year I’d think.
Ron same here, I think the rotation will be similar to this:
1. Smoltz
2. Huddy
3. Hampton
4. James
5. HoRam/ Davies
That probaly won’t be the order because it could have 3 lefties in a row.
FYI — A couple years ago Auburn opened with So. Cal at home & got smoked.
Cliff Harpe,
You beat me to it with the geography lesson. But sansho1’s point is well-taken. I remember thinking how weird it was that the Dawgs played in one of those Hawaii bowl games during the Donnan era. Ever since I moved to NYC, I’ve kinda hoped UGA would play in that August Meadowlands game, but no such luck.
The conference is plenty tough, actually. I hate that we dropped Clemson, but I’d rather play the extra SEC game. In fact, I’d rather play every other SEC team & call that the schedule. (I think we do pick up Clemson again in the next several years—Oregon State, too, but only at home.)
So, if you were at UGA back then, did you see Pete Maravich play?
I have a friend who was in school back then & he tells stories about Pistol Pete like he was some kind of Greek hero.
You know, while watching Andruw hit last night I was struck with how similar he and Frenchy are. They both have rather low batting averages, can hit with power, go through annoyingly long slumps then hot streaks then back again. I think Andruw is more patient, but he also can annoy us by swinging at those high and away pitches and seemingly never learning. I think he has gotten better at it now, but I can remember watching games with my dad and saying, “Andruw’s going to swing and miss this up and away pitch” and sure enough, I was right.
I agree that it’s too early to give up on Francoeur, since he’s only 22.
However, Joe Simpson–who I usually love–really annoyed me with his pro-Smurph commentary last night. He kept talking about how great a season Francoeur’s had, because “he’s in the line-up to produce runs, and that’s what he’s done.” I am so tired of that argument. I thought most people had gotten beyond that at this point, but apparently not.
To me, that rotation is screaming for a Hudson trade. All of the others should probably be in the rotation next year. I know many people here believe he’s untradeable at this point, but I don’t know that that’s the case, at least to big market teams who might be willing to throw a bunch of money at a pitching gamble.
What I love most about UT’s win is how genuinely terrified several fans around the conference seem to be now. If you’re Georgia (with the dicey QB situation) or Florida (with that brutal, inhumane schedule), you’ve got to be a little bit nervous right now. At least I would think so.
Our current Roster:
15 pitchers
11 infielders
7 catchers and outfielders
11 infielders? Wow, that’s crazy.
That is apparently counting Jordan and Thorman as first basemen.
The reason SEC teams won’t do that is because their conference schedule is so much tougher than that of any team in the Pac-10.
That’s obviously the company line, but the real reason for the seven to eight home game schedule is to make money to compete in the facilities arms race. And that’s fine if that’s what you are going for, just don’t be surprised when you are sitting at home after a four cream puff non-conference schedule. Auburn finished a home and home with USC 0-2, refused to renew the series, replaced the game with La-Monroe and then missed out on the BCS championship game because their schedule was too weak, SEC or no SEC. USC replaced the game with a trip to DC to play Va Tech.
Personally I think Tennessee’s season is looking much brighter now than it would have if they had spent the weekend waxing Nobody U. Playing good teams makes you better, Cal will be better for the experience as well.
yes it is…and sorry i forgot to make my point.
Point: that is a lot of infielders to share playing time
I too have advocated the trade of Hudson in the offseason. Frankly because of how expensive he will be in 08 and 09 compared to what you could expect from him production wise. This offseason is going to be one of the most interesting we’ve had in a while. JS will have to balance an ever tightening budget with prospect of Liberty media taking over and how to fill that roster when a handful of players absorb most of the money. I’d say that I wouldn’t be surprised if 2 of hudson, giles, and andruw were traded.
Correction, we have 14 pitchers and one tyler yates.
Ububba,
I wasn’t in school in 1968. Just a 10 year old with his parents. The 1968 team had fabulous athletes and doesn’t get enough credit from modern people. Bill Stanfill and Jake Scott, All -pro. Kent Lawrence, probably the second fastest football player in the country after OJ (and yes, OJ was like 9.3 at 100 yards)(their track competition shows how close they were).
I did see Maravich on TV and DAMN he was good. I was in law school 1981 -1983 and saw the highest point for UGA athletics (less the 1980 championship which I saw in New Orleans) until the past few.
Besides the many great Herschel, Lindsay Scott, Terry Hoage moments, the 1983 trip to Albuquerque for the final four is one of the great runs in school history. Vern Fleming’s second half against NC State in the semifinals is the single guttiest performance I have ever seen. If Georgia had finished climbing the mountain that day, Vern’s performance would be on ESPN Classic every 6 weeks. 3600 feet of elevation, 20 points down with 10 minutes. 10 ponts down with 2 minutes. 5 or less with 30 seconds. Vern rebounding or stealing and pushing it up the floor over and over again.
thanks to my brother for pointing out that correction to me
1) USC is a different story from the rest of the league, although I would guess that their defense isn’t much better than the national average (see: 2006 Rose Bowl).
2) “Strength of Schedule” rankings are largely a joke. The SEC is a league full of top-notch talent, and there’s thus great parity. So Auburn doesn’t get as much credit for beating a 9-3 Tennessee team as it should. And USC gets lots of credit for beating a Cal team that was overrated because they were beating up on nobodies. If you don’t think a team making it through the league undefeated (Auburn in 2004) isn’t more impressive than USC beating up a bunch of soft teams, then we’re just going to be talking past each other here.
The SEC conference schedule (Auburn playing LSU, Alabama, Georgia, etc. instead of Cal, Oregon and … Arizona?, for example) more than offsets, in reality, a failure to play Notre Dame out of conference, and any SoS calculation that doesn’t come to that conclusion should be discarded.
3) Sure, playing good teams is good for you if you win. But (a) that Cal team that UT just played didn’t appear to be all that good, and (b) you can’t seriously think Cal is better off with a loss to UT than they would be with a win against San Diego State.
Actually, petros, we have 12 pitchers, Yates, Paronto, and Ray. And Cormier was in this joke until last night.
I meant to add the following sentence at the end of 3), above:
If they’d played San Diego State, the national media might still think they’re a legitimate football team.
Brian J, I think it’s kind of unfair to bash Paronto and Ray. For a large part of this season, they were the only effective relievers we had; hence, Bobby badly overused them, and now they’ve got nothing left. No, shouldn’t be pitching crucial innings at this point, but I can’t really bash them for their failures right now.
you can’t seriously think Cal is better off with a loss to UT than they would be with a win against San Diego State.
Really? I would rather find out my starting QB does not respond well to pressure now than when playing SC for a trip to the Rose Bowl. Cal will be fine.
If you don’t think a team making it through the league undefeated (Auburn in 2004) isn’t more impressive than USC beating up a bunch of soft teams, then we’re just going to be talking past each other here.
Agree with the talking past each other, I think you have been drinking too much SEC koolaid. Any statistical measure will show that the SEC and Pac 10 are both top conferences, with the Pac occasionally stronger. But if you are going to essentially disregard objective measures…
“Strength of Schedule” rankings are largely a joke.
Then there is no point to discussing it.
So, you’d rather have an additional loss going into the USC game if you’re Cal? That’s an interesting perspective.
Thorman and Jordan will probably play mostly outfield although they both might could play first better than Ward. Also, i counted D. Ward as a first basemen too even though he logged a lot of innings in outfield. Still, with LaRoche swinging arguably the hottest bat Thorman and Jordan will most likely see their time in the outfield.
We also could make more room by demoting Pena Jr. to bat boy.
But enough about this, anybody besides me see the espn’s sportsnation pole on the MLB frontpage? It is “Which do you consider the single season home run record?”
Results
Bonds in 2001 – 36%
Maris in 1961- 64%
Ned Williamson in 1884! None of these hopped-up modern baseballs with their “cushioned cork” centers! When they illegalized the spitter they took the strategy out of the game!
Robert, when you say, “Any statistical measure will show that the SEC and Pac 10 are both top conferences, with the Pac occasionally stronger,” I am curious: what stats are you looking at? I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you (although nor am I agreeing). I’m just curious what makes you say that.
As an interesting side note, Steve Levy, the Cal QB who started against Stanford and again in their bowl game last season — and who now may be asked to start more games — is my wife’s first cousin. Well, it’s interesting to me, anyway.
Not as interesting as the superiority of SEC football to Pac-10 football, though. 😉
“Any statistical measure will show that the SEC and Pac 10 are both top conferences, with the Pac occasionally stronger.”
Are you serious? The Pac 10 is a joke and always has been. Yes, USC is very good, but whats after them, Cal and Oregon? Give me a break! They are a very weak conference. Besides USC, none of the teams have legitimate defenses. We just saw what happens when a good PAC 10 team plays a decent SEC school, hense Cal vs UT. They are not a top conference by any means….
So, you’d rather have an additional loss going into the USC game if you’re Cal? That’s an interesting perspective.
Fix the problems now. Cal wasn’t going to win it all anyway. They are still in the mix with SC and Oregon for the Rose Bowl.
what stats are you looking at?
There are lots of systems out there obviously and few agree. I’ll post this one just to see if Stu’s head will explode. link
That’s from ’05. In ’04 the SEC was actually rated sixth, which obvioulsy didn’t help Auburn at all. The point isn’t that these are “right” or whatever, but that the top few conferences are all pretty close.
I really wanted you to answer my #60 before I said this but i can’t stop myself…I think these boys are right, Robert. You take a team like USC, Texas, Notre Dame, or perhaps even Michigan and stick them in the SEC, I’d love to watch them compete. they’d struggle for 7-8 wins if that many. If you take a current SEC team (with the exception of Kentucky and last years Vandy) out of the SEC and stick them in, say, the Pac 10 then they would be viewed as a college football juggernaut. There’s no way any of your “statistical measures” could convince me the pac 10 is better.
Try Again
If that Cal team is still in the mix for a Rose Bowl berth, that alone is proof of the conference’s weakness.
Besides, I don’t think “pressure” is what necessarily got to Longshore or Ayoob. I think it was “superior talent”.
If you take a current SEC team (with the exception of Kentucky and last years Vandy) out of the SEC and stick them in, say, the Pac 10 then they would be viewed as a college football juggernaut.
Oh c’mon the Mississippis, Vandy, Kentucky…there are some soft touches in the SEC. If you put MSU in the Pac 10 this year they would go 1-8.
Arguing stupid stuff like this is what’s fun about college football. However, doing it on a Braves board filled with southern football fans is a no win for me. It’s going to be a long two weeks waiting for Nebraska to show up.
This isn’t getting us anywhere. New topic:
How do you think John Parker Wilson feels about being the starting quarterback at Alabama and yet less famous than his brother the MTV star? Do you think he goes around thinking, “Three years ago, that could have been me!”
Robert, i think the keyword in the parenthesis is “exception”. Cal got its taste of the SEC, and not even the highest ranked SEC team. Heck, not even one of the top 3 SEC schools! If a man sitting in his closet with a calculator punching buttons that point to SEC being the 6th ranked conference is what convinces you then i suppose this is a waste of my time. I’m going to go grab a calculator and prove that Tony Pena Jr. should be MVP now.
NO, I bet he’s happy he’s not on a stupid show like that. That is just another MTV teen soap opera that has really nothing to do about the football team. I bet he’s thrilled that he’s not involved and he probably laughs at his brother when he see’s him on TV, at least he should…
Mac, will ‘Bama cover the 15.5 point spread against Vandy this weekend?
Sounds like it’d be a crunk halftime show for Bama
Probably not, judging from the way Shula coached the fourth quarter of the Hawaii game. They should have covered that game but barely hung on. Then again, Hawaii is probably a better team than Vandy.
Alabama’s spreads are always inflated anyway and it’s better to never pick them unless they’re an underdog.
You really think Hawaii is better than us? They may be tougher to game-plan for — which is, I guess, a relevant measure when determining who’s better — because of their scheme, but I think Vanderbilt’s roster likely has somewhat better players. I could be wrong, though; I don’t know that much about Hawaii.
Cliff Harpe,
I lived in Athens from 1981-90, so I remember that time as well. While you were in law school, I was in J-School.
All,
The very fact that we have to crunch numbers to find out “who’s best in college football” is, in my view, patently ridiculous.
The “national champion,” for example, the single stupidest conversation in all of organized sports. The only way to find out who’s best is to see who won the games in head-to-head competition.
In that, the SEC has a lead on the Pac 10. I don’t recall the numbers right now & I don’t have time to look it up right now, but the SEC has a decent lead all-time. (But if you really wanna laugh, check out the SEC vs Big 10 head-to-head bowl record.)
Generally, the SEC breaks down like this:
Always loaded with NFL-calibre talent, almost always good, and sometimes exceptional: Auburn, Alabama, LSU, Tennessee, Georgia, Florida
Talented, competitive, sometimes good: South Carolina (and rising), Arkansas, Ole Miss
Rarely good, but once or twice a decade (with the right player) will bite you: MSU, Kentucky, Vandy
That adds up to a pretty great conference. I’ll put it up against any other one any time.
My recollection of 2004 is that Southern Cal and Oklahoma finished ahead of Auburn mainly because they started ahead of Auburn.
If you want to talk about an overrated conference, its the ACC. VaTech is good, Florida St. and Miami are good but not what they once were. Clemson and Ga. Tech are inconsistent. BC isn’t bad, but the rest are awful.
Back to the Braves: there are 25 games left. I think the Braves need to win 20 to have a shot at the wild card. I don’t think it will happen.
I think the Braves would have to win 18. I agree that whatever the number is, it ain’t happening.
Yeah, the wild card isn’t going to happen. It doesn’t look good for even finishing at .500 with Chipper missing a week or more. It just isn’t our year. We’ve kind of known this since the June swoon really. Everything since has just been a series of teases followed by let downs. Barring a total firesale after ownership change, we should have a real chance at winning the division next year, however, especially if JS doesn’t wait until July to get a closer who can actually close.
I’d like to argue that the Braves are already in the playoffs; this year, though, we are playing as the West of the Mississippi L.A. Dodgers. I mean really, put an asterisk by the L.A. Dodgers and say that the streak continues–forget all of this W.C. crap. The playoffs are an entitlement of Braves fans, just like the World Series is an entitlement of the Florida Marlins every five years when they qualify as a WC entry.
By that logic, the Braves will also win the AL East (Farnsworth, Wright, Sheffield), the NL Central (Sosa, Marquis), and possibly the AL Wild Card (Guillen, Dye).
Ron,
That works for me… Perhaps the Braves could even win the SEC!
If a man sitting in his closet with a calculator punching buttons that point to SEC being the 6th ranked conference is what convinces you then i suppose this is a waste of my time.
Ah, the punching buttons on a calculator argument! Excellent! The argument of last resort. I base my opinions on watching way too much football. The SEC is great, but not really any better or worse than the Pac 10 or Big 10. Just a little different.
I agree with Mac that we are not getting anywhere.
it seems awkward to me that it is still mathematically possible to win the wc. The braves don’t deserve to win it, too many teams have had a better season. I admire JS for having not given up already, but I say its time for us to take the Cubs motto: “Wait till next year”
If i had my way, i’m giving many of the younger ones lots of PT in september. get them seasoned. Perhaps even give M. mcbride a start? give prado and aybar lots of at-bats. Let j. Devine log plenty of innings. Start getting ready for next year, because there’s not telling what our roster will look like next season.
Meanwhile, Braves fans, I think it is important that we start our “reverse the curse” campaign. thats right, other teams have had their curses come and go, its time for us to do the same. We’ll call it, the curse of Julio. Julio Franco jumps teams to the mets and all of a sudden they are the team to beat. hopefully this curse will just last a season…but ntil then, Reverse the curse of Julio!
“I base my opinions on watching way too much football.”
Apparently you missed the Cal/UT game
“The argument of last resort. ”
See #76
Petros,
That’s the beauty of my plan. With the West Coast Braves in already (or nearly so), we can start concentrating on next year (and quit drinking that kool aid sold as playoff hope), and at the same time we get “technically” to continue our playoff run. Logical…no, but then who lets logic interfere with a pleasant conversation (or politics)…
Well Robert, you aren’t the only PAC-10 follower on this board (Go Bruins).
The SEC has a lot of good teams right now, and the conference schedule is consequently very tough. Which should never be an excuse to schedule non-conference games against really weak teams. UCLA played Oklahoma last year (OK was ranked #12 at the time). This year they’re playing @ Notre Dame. Is UCLA a great team? No, but they’re pretty good. And they don’t go for a weak schedule just so they can have a good record.
And the PAC-10 does get ignored by the media which leads to ridiculous outcomes like Cal being ranked #9 in the first place. Anyone who saw Cal play last year, which seems to mean just other PAC-10 fans, knew they weren’t a #9 team.
We’ll know when the PAC-10 is a great conference, because we’ll be playing against tough non-conference teams.
-n
I get it. In a way we will have two streaks, our 15th consecutive division title streak, and our NL west streak. Since the Braves won the NL west 91-93 then this will be our 4th consecutive NL West victory. Working on 15 straight and 4 straight
But the whole point is that they DO go for a weak record simply by playing in the Pac-10. You don’t seem to understand that UT’s schedule includes Florida, Georgia and Alabama EVERY SINGLE YEAR. Congrats on playing two top-notch opponents a year…you’re still coming up short when compared to the SEC.
Apparently you missed the Cal/UT game
Yes indeed, the SEC played the Pac 10 three times this weekend, all at home, and went 2-1. We are all very impressed. Let us know when you want to return the visits.
Let me just restate in case you missed it the first ten times: The SEC is a fine conference. Somewhat top heavy but still pretty competitive. It tends to be overrated because it consistently has the least challanging out of conference schedule of any conference. Being overrated doesn’t mean it’s not still very good.
Thanks Cliff — I meant to say non-conference game…
Nice to meet you, um, nogbogfrog. Bruins looked pretty good this weekend. I’m still not sure who I’m rooting for in that Bruins-Domers game. How does that ‘enemy of your enemy is your friend’ thing work when they are both already your enemies?
Well, i still don’t agree, but I’ll let you fly with it. oh, and a little debate tip, when you say you base your opinions on watching college football, don’t let your first piece of evidence be steve urkel’s website, you want your first piece of evidence to actually be something from watching college football, which is what you said you base your opinions on. the last thing you want to do is contradict yourself.
I think I heard a Mets announcer mention last night that the Braves “magic number” to lose the division is holding at 8.
let your first piece of evidence be steve urkel’s website,
Gimme a break Petros. You specifically asked me for a strength of conference stat, so I gave you one. I find Sagarin’s work interesting to read but not influencal.
BTW, for SEC naysayers about our skeds, just check the all-time bowl records. That oughtta say plenty.
Yes, our E# is 8. Florida and Philadelphia’s E# is 11. As much as it hurts to say this, it would work out best for us if we root for the Mets in September (except when they play the braves). They play a lot of division games and it would help us out if they beat up on them. The mets will probably clinch next week anyways…of course, it won’t make a difference if the braves don’t even get back to .500
Without regard to what other conferences may or may not be. Being good still isn’t an excuse to play weak teams. Judging by what a lot of the SEC fans here say, SEC appears to be interested only in being as good as it is now, and only as good as other SEC teams.
Mileage varies, teams get better or worse.
I’m just saying that I’m having fun as a fan watching a lot of interesting games in the PAC-10.
-n
Robert, Petros has a point. He asked you for some facts and you gave him somebody else’s opinion. If you don’t find it influential then why even post that as a fact?
The thing I don’t understand is why so many Divison 1-A schools open up with Division 1-AA schools. That’s the one thing that bothers me about college football scheduling. Instead of those schools playing 1-AA schools, they should be playing each other.
that makes no sense, you didn’t find it “influencal”? then why try to influence us with it?
nevermind, just forget it
I’m just saying that I’m having fun as a fan watching a lot of interesting games in the PAC-10.
Indeed. The SEC season ticket holders are playing full price for a home date with Louisiana-Nowhereinparticular, all the while saying “it has to be this way! The SEC is so tough!”. Meanwhile, I’ll be at the colusium this year to greet Husker Fan and Irish Fan.
Twelve games a year, make them count.
Nogbogfrog,
You’re right about one thing: I don’t really care about teams outside the SEC. I’d rather play an all-SEC schedule. I may be in the minority there, but that’s how I feel.
Intersectional games are fun—I remember seeing UGA play UCLA & BYU in consecutive years—but they don’t help determine the SEC champ. I could care less who is “national champ” because, absent a playoff, one has never, ever been determined in a legit fashion.
The SEC has a playoff & that works fine for me.
He asked you for some facts and you gave him somebody else’s opinion.
Petros asked “what stats are you looking at?” So I gave him the Sagarin calculations which are the official ones used by the BCS. I realize that these rankings are built on some assumptions, but calling his statistical calculations “his opinion” is a reach. He couldn’t care less what the final outcome of his calcs are.
FYI—It’s raining lightly here in New York. It’s supposed to rain for the next several hours. Dunno how hard it’ll get, but I hope we don’t have to play another DH tomorrow.
I dunno, ububba, the day off might do more good for the guys than the doubleheader would do bad.
Ububba,
regarding #104. I totally respect and understand what you mean. Ultimately the game I care about most (even in the last few years) is the USC vs UCLA game. Natural rivalries are altogether an entirely different, and perhaps more entertaining, thing than national championships.
-n
http://photos-914.ak.facebook.com/ip005/v17/229/98/7006696/n7006696_31896914_4351.jpg
Taken of my section (church group I’m in – we sit outside the gates of Jordan-Hare until they open so we can claim our seats at the 40 yard line) .. this was taken ~75 minutes before kickoff of Auburn/Washington State. I’m in the orange shirt if anyone’s wondering.
Can’t beat SEC football. Mac, I’m sitting in section 420 for the Bama game. Should I just try and talk my way into the blimp for the game?
Stu,
You may be right, but I’m being selfish: I can go to tonight’s game, but probably not tomorrow.
Plus, any chance to see Smoltz pitch, I take it.
Maybe I did go to far by calling it an opinion. But since it is based on assumptions, I am not so sure we can call it a stat either. Or am I wrong? I dunno. To me it seems like stats are concrete facts and do not lie. Don’t misunderstand me, I am not a huge SEC worshipper either. But I am a little familiar with Sagarin’s work and I think the BCS is not the best place to go when wanting a stat.
I don’t know why everyone thinks Tennessee is destined for great things after beating Cal. Cal sucks, no one wants to admit it, but Tedford doesn’t know what the hell he is doing. I’ll give UT credit, but it wasn’t as huge of a win as people are boasting. Tedford’s qbs suck, as seen in the last two years at the college level and in the pros (harrington, boller, rodgers). Cal was over hyped. UT will be better this year, but I still think they will lose to UGA and UF. They should be able to take USC and Vandy, though.
I’d be very surprised if UGA beats Tennessee this year. Teams with such serious QB issues aren’t often real threats (see: 2005 Vols).
Stu,
We (UGA) don’t know what we have at QB, exactly. And I’m talking about Stafford—who may be very good indeed.
UT-UGA will be another great game, I’m sure.
I think it’ll be a good one, too.
The fact that Stafford started out only as third string tells me he’s not as far along as Richt expected/would like. I, too, would be surprised if he’s not starting by the UT game…but I think even if he does, this UT team will beat them.
Honestly, I’ve thought all along that UT will win the East this season. Florida’s schedule is just too tough and taxing, and Georgia, again, has the QB issues.
But I am a little familiar with Sagarin’s work and I think the BCS is not the best place to go when wanting a stat.
You are right on with this one, but if your looking to try and determine which conference is the strongest analytically, calculations like this are your only option. There aren’t any easy stats that define the situation. If there were, arguments like this wouldn’t be happening all the time.
Cal sucks, no one wants to admit it, but Tedford doesn’t know what the hell he is doing.
I don’t know about all that but they definately have quarterback problems again this season. Oh, and they might want to find another cornerback, one that can at least trip the guy as he’s going by.
I agree with Stu.
These Pac 10 teams all left thier starters in after the game was far out of hand. Cal scored all of thie points on Tennessee’s JV team and for some reason USC had their starters in while up by 40 points. This is how guys like Lienart and Bush win Hiesman, they pile up stats , in garbage time.
If USC was in the SEC they would be a top team, but the rest of the Pac 10 would be battling Vandy and Kentucky to stay out of the celler
How about wins in head-to-head matchups. Again, #76
I grew up in the South and I like the SEC, but could someone tell me if there is any other team/conference that SEC fans respect. I mean, it appears that you all would be completely satisfied if the other conferences disbanded and college football was reduced to the SEC game of the week on every channel. C’mon, the SEC is normally a great conference but it’s not the only conference playing good football. It’s a lot like ACC basketball fans. Do you seriously think that Ohio State, Michigan, USC, etc. could not compete in the SEC? And the SEC has its down times too. When I was at UGA in the late 70s/early 80s, Georgia had one of the most pathetic conference schedules ever; it’s only real tough games were against Clemson. I like the SEC but it’s not the only conference worth watching–Texas and USC were pretty good teams.