Nothing, however, can save the Pirates. Probably not the Braves, either.
205 Comments
Advertisement
Use code “Journal” for a 5% discount.
Nothing, however, can save the Pirates. Probably not the Braves, either.
Use code “Journal” for a 5% discount.
I hope not!
What happened to Nady just ain’t right. But I can’t stop laughing.
Yeah, you feel bad for the Major League contributors who get dealt from contenders to dregs. Izturis is another.
Izturis was the next great Dodger SS, then Furcal signs and he’s sent packing to the Cubs at the Trade deadline.
Chacon had the same thing happen to him.
One more thing.
Soriano ain’t staying in Washington. FA.
No kidding there, 4Seam. I wonder who will pick him up.
Lineup
1. Aybar
2. Giles
3. Renteria
4. AJ
5. McCann
6&7. Francouer and/or Larouche
8. Langerhans/Thormann
9. Smoltz
Cox’s lineup will of course include Giles up at the 2.
What it should be….
1. Aybar
2. Renteria
3. McCann
4. AJ
5. LaRouche
6. Francouer
7. Thormann
8. Giles
9. Smoltz
Maybe the Pirates will–after all, from here on out, players have to clear waivers and the worst teams get dibs. If it were to happen, I’d just like it to happen after they leave town, though. Soriano has crushed us this year.
Best thing about the second for me…
1. Aybar Switch
2. Renteria Right
3. McCann Left
4. AJ Right
5. LaRouche Left
6. Francouer Right
7.Thormann Left
8. Giles Right
9 Smoltz Right
1-7 is excellent in terms of righty-lefty alternation.
Soriano is going to the Yankees. They got the money.
Yanks or the Mets will get Soriano
I’ll take Jose Castillo in the ‘Who does Smoltz give up a homerun to in the late innings to blow the lead” pool.
Soriano is going to go Free Agent after the season and didn’t want to mess with the good thing
Castro’s about to the kick the bucket, and there is “HN” to kiss his ass one last time.
My bet is Craig Wilson…;)
Soriano will end up with the Giants or Angels-either way, not really our problem.
GREAT QUESTION FOR ALL…
Why is Giles still and Atlanta Brave?
I’ll take Burnitz, off Paronto, in the 8th. With the lead pipe. Or is that a different game?
1914 Update:
NY Giants 52-36 (–)
Chicago Cubs 52-42 (3 GB)
St. Louis Cardinals 51-45 (5)
Boston Braves 45-45 (8)
Cincinnati Reds 45-48 (9.5)
Philadelphia Phillies 42-49 (11.5)
Brooklyn Robins 39-49 (13)
Pittsburgh Pirates 39-51 (14)
Today’s Game:
Cards 100 000 002 0 – 3 9 1 LP- Sallee
Braves 000 000 030 1 – 4 8 1 WP- James
Bill James went the whole way. See, back then Braves starters had to blow their own leads.
Time of the game: Two hours, five minutes. The Braves are at .500 for the first time since Opening Day.
We can at least beat the awful Pirates with Smoltz on the mound, right? Right??
Because until this year, for 3 years running, he has been among the top 3 second basemen in the NL and it would be silly for us to move him unless we could get a high quality starting pitcher?
didn’t smoltz shut-out the pirates in Pittsburgh in the play-offs, in the first year of our great run?
Yanks don’t want Soriano. They have Cano at 2B making no money & Matsui will be in left next year. Also, Damon is their leadoff hitter at least for the immediate future.
Soriano’s a dangerous hitter no doubt—we’ve seen enough evidence of that—but it makes no sense for the Yanks to sign a pain like him. I see him going to some other AL team. He’s a future DH.
Beat ’em 4-0 with a big 3-run homer in the first from Brian Hunter.
That should be our game plan tonight.
9 innings, 6 hits, 1 walk and 8 strike-outs, on the road in the 7th game. Mr. Smoltz, you are the man.
Sure did. link
A three run blast by Brian Hunter in the first to take the pressure off.
“top 3 second basemen in the NL”
That is a subjective statement.
more like 6-7th and 14th in all of MLB.
Really? Name the 5-6 NL second basemen who were better than Giles from 2003-05.
No, in the last 3 years, he has been 1, 3 and 3 in OPS for NL 2nd basemen (one year, he was injured and did not have enough bats to qualify, but at .826, that put him 3rd). Average; power and obp from a player who plays middle infield-what more would one want?
according to Yahoo sports it shows
In 04 and 05
Soriano, Figgins, utley, Kent, Roberts are ahead of Giles both years. Last year they also had Cantu and Lopez ahead of Giles in terms of overall value.
Ummm, three of those guys are in the AL (Soriano; Figgins; Roberts),as is Lopez.
Luis Castillo, Craig Biggio, Ray Durham(was he a Giant then?), Polanco, Loretta….
2002-2004
DEFENSE AND OFFENSE PLEASE….
For NL 2B 2005-in OPS, behind Utley and Kent;
2004 Loretta; Kent; Durham;
2003 #1 by a huge margin (and kent; Durham; and Loretta were in the league).
Castillo has won the 2B gold gloves, but last year Marcus had 64 extra base hits; castillo had 20.
Marcus was 16-19 in SB’s, and casillo was 10-17 (meaning his SB’s, in total, were a negative).
I think Giles is good with the glove, not great,but a lot better than he use to be. He has good speed and a strong arm. He turns the double play as well as any one in baseball. He can get on base and has some pop. I would say he is in the top five 2nd basemen in the league.
Whether Giles was #1 or #6 relative to the other NL 2Bs, he was a big plus for the Braves during those years. I have my ideas as to why he’s fallen off and only one of them is the fact that he’s batting 2nd in the order.
If indeed he’ll be hitting there in the remaining 58 games, I’ll be curious to see if he picks it up.
Meant to say, “he’s only now batting 2nd in the order.”
His OPS is .723 now. I will bet he gets it higher than .750 by the end of the season.
Figures, we get the pirates when they are actually playing decent ball. 10-6 since all star break 5 wins in a row! Ugh, well here we go!
It doesn’t matter how good Giles is. What matters is he costs a lot of money and the Braves have a cheap player ready to replace him. Aybar will be an upgrade defensively and is much better suited to be a leadoff hitter. With the team on a limited budget, trading Giles is one of the easiest ways to cut costs to be able to afford to sign the relief pitchers the team needs to compete for the playoffs next year. So he will be gone.
I know we all keep talking about budgets, but we do not know anything about the new ownership yet, they may actually want to put a winner on the field ads spend some extra bucks.
I can dream anyway.
And maybe magical gnomes will lead Schuerholz to their hidden treasure and he can use it to acquire two frontline starting pitchers!
Ron, you’ve never even seen Aybar play second base, and now he’s an upgrade on Giles, who is a pretty good second baseman?
i’m sure we can get this guys’ value very high
Wolf turns 30 this month. He made his first start since June 12, 2005 last Sunday due to Tommy John surgery. His return was also delayed a bit because of a broken hand bone from a line drive. As you would expect with a recent Tommy John guy, Wolf’s control was lacking in his ’06 debut. He probably won’t get his walks down to below 3 per nine innings until 2007. For what it’s worth, Wolf says his arm feels “incredible” now. His velocity still hasn’t fully returned despite 25 rehab innings.
Still, like Kip Wells, Wolf could be a helpful addition as a fifth starter for a contender. His next few starts (against the Mets and Braves) will be crucial in building up some trade value. Teams like the Red Sox, A’s, Braves, and Reds could have interest in Wolf assuming they are still in contention in a few weeks.
Maybe he has MLB Extra Innings and watched him play 2B for the Dodgers. He’s had 15 games there this year.
According to the Turner South graphic, Xavier Nady will play both RF and 1B at the same time tonight.
I still can’t see why major league baseball allows corporate ownership. The NFL doesn’t.
The Braves have a great team and a great ballpark. Why are the Braves cursed as one of only three or four MLB teams owned by a corporation instead of a person?
Wow…good pick up for Pittsburgh then.. 😀
Mac,
Per your comment earlier, I don’t necessarily think Aybar is an upgrade over Giles at 2nd, but he does allow us to deal Giles this offseason, hopefully, for a frontline starting pitcher.
All this Giles hatred is getting really tired. he had a .908 ops in july. he was good early until he was injured, then he went into a funk with the rest of the team, but, like the rest of the team he’s come out of it. give the guy a break.
In terms of offseason free agents that will be available, if the Braves can pawn off Giles and maybe even Hudson’s salaries elsewhere, would a suddenly “unhappy” Roy Oswalt be interesting for a 5 yr. offer?
david15,
My comment was not Giles hatred at all.
It was being realistic within the Braves salary limitations to say that we now have a quality, young, cheap 2nd Baseman in Aybar (who can leadoff) and now we can maybe turn Marcus into filling another need, a frontline starter.
Thats NOT hatred—that’s being realistic within the Braves cost analysis.
It’s kinda weird how we just saw Xavier Nady last weekend in a Mets uni. and seeing him again tonight, in Pittsburgh.
This Snell kid looks good.
I wouldn’t mind taking a chance on Wolf.
I understand that, and it’s a valid point. But I hadn’t even read your post when I posted my comment. It was the posts prior to yours, as well as the tons of Giles bashing posts throughout the season.
I’ll take a look at anyone at this point. Smoltzie sharp so far.
Over/Under on our K’s tonight is 11. I’ll take the over
I hate FOX
I’ll take the over aswell csg..
ROACHY!!!!!!!!!!
Dang is LaRoche good lately.
Larouche hits a homer, 21 on the season.
He might get 30.
KKKKK
I’ll keep count
I think Adam definitely hits over 30 by year’s end. His pace is safe for that.
If he can hit .270+ and over 30 homers again next year, he’s a solid producer for us that we can’t complain about.
david15,
No worries. And frankly, Giles is a solid #2 hitter, so I hear what your saying about bashing the kid; he’s my wife’s favorite player so I know she’d be sad if he left, but Giles could net us a frontline starter, would love it.
I’ll take .270-.275 w/ 25 to 30 hr’s out of our 8 hole. He has improved drastically since moving from the 5 spot.
Honestly, if we could deal Hudson and Giles, and could afford to make a power play and land Roy Oswalt, a Smoltz-Hampton-Oswalt-Davies-James rotation would work out.
Maybe we make Horam a reliever or deal him for an outfielder with power.
amen, csg.
Hudson needs to be watching what Smoltzie is doing here. Its called being an ace
woohoo marcus.
atta boy, Gilleess. Gosh, I hope he has a great 2nd half to raise his trade value. The A’s should be looking for a 2nd baseman and they have a very god bullpen.
Corporation/Person-same thing…..
BOB RATHBUN IS STEALING MY MATERIAL!!!!
Snell looks very good
KKKKKK
I unfortunately get the FSN Pittsburgh broadcast tonight. I go from hearing Chip Caray the other day, who gets so excited when the OTHER team hits a homerun to the FSN Pittsburgh guys who are like “There’s a swing….(5 minutes later)….and that’s long gone.”
6 k’s…
That’s funny.
I cannot believe that brought that dancing hot sauce commercial from last year back. That is the worst commercial involving a Braves’ player ever.
trade Andurw now, c’mon McCann pick up the vets!
I see our Bravos are showing their infamous patience at the plate tonight.
7 k’s
7k’s.. that over is looking mighty fine..
Good job McCann.
MCCANN”S CANS!!!!!!!!!
Looked like he gave up on that ball. Nice job McCann.
Burnitz looked terrible there
How in the world did McCann not score there!?
Frenchy!
From the radio broadcast, it sounds like the Pirates outfielders are doing bong hits between innings.
lets give Smoltzie some cushion tonight, we are a road team fella’s
Dan, he was on first and he’s had a bum ankle since that injury? Where have you been.
ububba, it IS Pittsburgh we’re talking about.
I know these are the Pirates…but where is all of this when we play at the Ted??
Davey – all of what?
It’s the fourth inning and we have two runs. Color me unimpressed. Happy we are leading, yes, but unimpressed nonethles.
“Dan, he was on first and he’s had a bum ankle since that injury? Where have you been.”
McCann has always ran at a snell’s pace though. Anyone else, even LaRoche, would have scored there.
*nonetheless…. sorry.
I’m not saying that the 2-0 lead is all that impressive…but still, we’re a much better team on the road than at home.
It’s the Pirates, and just 2-0, but still, if we were at the Ted right now, Jason Bay would’ve had a grand slam already and Snell would’ve been working on a no-hitter.
Burnitz gets a fly bounce it off the wall.
Awesome. You guys just HAD to complain about the 2 run lead….
I wasn’t complaining. I was just wondering why can’t play decent at home, that’s different.
Come on Thor.
Pete and Don on the radio are saying that Smoltz is doing a lot of stretching and walking around the mound. Something has stiffened up.
no one’s complaining here but they Braves need to pick it up.
Alex that but you qualified your excuse with is ironic.
Anyone else watching the game on Turner South? What is wrong with the channel?
Holy shit…. Did our leadoff hitter just draw a walk?
Dan I have no idea.. but it is really.. really annoying
Oh nn nno www wwweeee aaa rrreee iiiinnn nnnn a a a a a a tttt time wwwww warppppp ppp !!!!!!
is a walk that amazing?
The day I complain about Giles, he decides he won’t suck.
Wow, I like what I am seeing here. Now if we can develop some kind of consistency.
David, someone drawing a walk on this team IS really amazing. And the fact that our leadoff hitter did it makes it doubly so.
Torborg has never made more sense than right now.
And it’s (Turner South) dead.
Land…your right, I did qualify my excuse-ha!
Our leadoff hitter most of the year has been Marcus, who has drawn 50 walks to lead the team. That’s 15th in the league, though… The team is 11th in walks.
another Andruw K…anyone else getting sick of this now? another painful, depressing, swinging strikeout Andruw streak. Hate this.
lando, giles leads the team in walks. 50 walks in 370 official at bats isn’t bad. in fact, the team really hasn’t been that bad in terms of walks if francoeur isn’t included in the sample.
No problem Alex. I’ll let it slide this time 😉
David, as Mac said it’s not impressive when compared to the rest of the league.
Alex, Andruw hasn’t looked well with risp for a while now. Something is going on with him. Maybe he needs to move to the back of the batters box.
Smoltz stretching his shoulder again.
what isn’t impressive? 15th out of over a hundred regulars?
Lando,
absolutely right. but I am tired of this…wheres Pendleton?
lando, please take a guess as to how many players above marcus in walks are also leadoff hitters.
“15th out of over a hundred regulars?”
Is it 15th overall or 15th by lead-off hitters in the NL.
Not really. Chipper has only 2 less walks in 54 less at bats.
“Is it 15th overall or 15th by lead-off hitters in the NL.”
Correction: Is it 15th overall or 15th by lead-off hitters in the NL?
And McCann tries to stretch A BALL OFF THE WALL into a double. Sheesh he is slow.
Wtf……. How did McCann think that was a good idea with his ankle.
Fifteenth out of all NL players. I don’t think anyone ahead of him is a leadoff hitter except maybe Felipe Lopez — though Furcal is just one behind (in about 60 more PA).
1st in leadoff hitters, 15th when guys like abreu and bonds are considered. felipe lopez might be considered a leadoff hitter, i’m not sure. i just know freel has hit leadoff much of the time he’s played.
LaRoche again!
Has anyone suggested ADDam as a nickname? If not, why not?
Damn Skippy Adam!!
Mac, because Huckleberry is his nickname. And Huckleberry continues to not suck.
Adam is a far, far more reliable hitter now then Andruw…that much is certain.
9k’s so far.. the over is still in reach. Especially if ‘Druw and Jeffrey have at-bats left..
Now I’m not knocking McCann, no one here doesn’t like him (at least I assume), but now how big does that attempt to make second look?
What’s funny is that Marcus has 14 less walks than his brother Brian.
Why is that funny? Brian Giles probably has the best eye of anyone other than Bonds in the NL.
“What’s funny is that Marcus has 14 less walks than his brother Brian.”
I would surmise that is because of intentional walks.
Other than bonds? …… yeah….
that’s right lando. got anyone other than bonds in mind?
And I meant it’s funny that he has that many. I didn’t think he was walking that much.
How about Abreu and his major league leading 91 walks? That’s not intentional, as just about every one of his stats would point out.
Fox Sports’ f***ing camera guys can’t even follow the damn play.
Nice catch.
Don’t you dare say it, Rathbun.
abreu isn’t in the national league.
Either Giles is back on the juice or he REALLY enjoys not being in the leadoff spot.
Ummm up until a couple days ago, he was.
Wilson Betemit hit a home run for the Dodgers.
Giles just nudged past Francoeur in OPS with that double.
I feeling pretty good about my prediction about and defense of Marcus right now.
i said has, not had. even still, it’s a debatable situation. i’d say giles over abreu mostly due to his amazing bb/k ratio. but neither of us knows whether that is due to better discipline or better contact ability, so it’s close. nevertheless, abreu isn’t in the al so it doesn’t matter anyway.
I don’t think it’s been mentioned, Betemit hit a 2-run homerun for the Dodgers tonight.
You mean our RBI machine RF who sits behind 4 guys with great OBP and benefits from a high RBI total, yet who has 5 unintentional walks this year? Giles passed that future HOFer?
Dan got there before me lol.
Yep. Still .001 behind Burnitz though. 🙁
ballgame right here, if we get out of this up by 3.
Another inning from Smoltz or Baez/Ray?
nice work by John..
Another inning from Smoltz or Baez/Ray?
The answer is blowing in the wind?
what kinda name is John SHARPLESS?
WORST named Pirate pitcher since Bob Walk.
glad to hear about Betemit and wish him well. It was a good deal for us.
And remember Alex, that Mr. Walk pitched for the bravos as well…
Davies pitched 2 innings for Mississippi tonight, no walks or hits, 3 strikeouts.
4-pitch walk to Jeff F. The sign of the apocalypse is here.
Andruw and Jeffrey both walk..in the same inning..
oh boy…i better savour this moment
Well I’m really glad we traded Betemit so that Pete Orr could start being our primary pinch hitter.
Blech.
(I realize Betemit would’ve been in the lineup for Chipper anyhow, but the sight of Pete Orr pinch-hitting with the bases loaded is not inspiring to me.)
Pete Orr ladies and gentleman… *clap clap*
Damn, we’ve got a weak bench tonight. I’m glad we haven’t needed much from them tonight.
Peter Orr would be on our bench with Aybar or Betemit at 3rd…the deal was a good one for the Braves.
“4-pitch walk to Jeff F. The sign of the apocalypse is here.”
A four-pitch walk that wasn’t intentional. How does that happen?
A very encouraging inning indeed. If the team had any sort of a bullpen in the first half, we would all be more motivated right now…
Lil’ Pete’s okay. My comment was directed to the fact that we have only four available, Pete, Langy, Diaz, and Pratt. Of those, in a key pinch hitting moment, I’d really only like to see …. Oh crap, where was I going with this?
I AM WARNING YOU, RATHBUN!!!!
Three doubles today, that’s the Marcus I remember well.
Is there a reason Thorman came out of the game in the 6th inning and Langerhans came in?
Mac, what did he say?
“I AM WARNING YOU, RATHBUN!!!!”
What is he saying/doing?
Alex R.,
I’m not as big on this deal (and I’m sorry that I haven’t read all your comments on it, feel free to tell me to just go read them). I think we traded for a 2 years-younger version of WB but that hadn’t begun producing like him. It confuses me. I can’t tell if JS is dealing for today or the future. Aybar seems like a deal for the future. Baez like a deal for today. That seems like a smart deal except that WB was more valuable than both put together, helping us today and for a few years. Yeah he’s closer to arbitration than Aybar, but the couple of million dollars he’d make isn’t what’s killing us; Hampton’s contract is killing us. I dunno. I’m trailing off.
I also realize I’m a little late with these comments but I was out of town this weekend.
Nice play Edgar…
Perhaps the best part of the deal is that Wilson was a better 3rd baseman, whil Aybar is a better 2nd baseman. This would seem to indicate that the Braves will make a concerted effort to trade Giles before he gets seriously expensive. Mind you, before you accuse me of being a Giles hater, I’m not. But given our team’s budget, if you can save money, you better.
Tom,
Aybar is a 3 yrs. younger and doesn’t strike out, a switch hitter (like Betemit) will offer better 2nd Base defense and was a big time prospect about ready to break out—plus, a legit leadoff hitter for them in 2007, something Betemit couldn’t offer them.
Plus, we get Baez, a solid reliever, we maybe able to re-sign and the Dodgers picked up his payment this year.
Great deal…just my opinion.
Uh-oh.
Please for the love of all that is holy (and unholy) stop the bleeding Wickman…
I agree with what my brother have said…it’s a fine deal for both teams because the Dodgers needed a 3rd baseman more.
Though, I did think Andy LaRoche was supposed to be ready next year?
Not to mention Betemit was batting .222 from the left side.
uh-oh…
YES!
Wickman got out of it, thank God.
Rathbun keeps using the phrase “doubles machine”, which is mine.
Sweet!
Thank you. And now, back to Wickmania…
You know, even when Wickman was in trouble, I never felt as nervous as when I watched the other “closer” pitched.
Look at Wickman with his arm around McCann. What a pot bellied father figure he is.
Lando, Betemit was hitting .222 from the right side against left-handed pitchers. He raked as a lefty against a righty.
Yes, thanks for the correction.
I like the way the Braves are playing this season on the road, they just can’t seem to win a series at home in the last two months…sigh…
Well, I was a little nervous when I saw that two-strike pitch go down the middle to Hernandez. Yikes. Oh well, a win is a win, and who says we can’t win the wild card now, eh? Reds getting their ass kicked. 5 1/2 out, eh? 😀
Good win. I like the betemit deal. With Chipper blocking 3rd aybar offers a great leadoff prospect and plays better defense at second compared to betemit, and he may be better than giles, defensively, and definitely a better leadoff prospect. This gives JS the ability to move Giles in the offseason for a starting pitcher. betemit will be good, but this trade helps the braves’ future while not giving up much now. I just wish, like everyone, that Chipper hadn’t gon on the DL.
Alex R.,
WB was born 11/81; Aybar was born 3/83. Only a year and a half. But I’m quibbling. I don’t think much of Baez; I think he gets too much credit for racking up saves in Tampa. If Aybar pans out, then I’m much closer to agreeing with you. As far as turning Giles into something useful, he’s going to really need to turn it on in the next few months in order to do that. Otherwise, I don’t think we’ll get much for him. I hope it pans out, but I have doubts.
sorry guys had to leave and do some yard work and just got back in, it looks as if we actually showed up to play baseball tonight for some reason. Good game guys, also good job by the bullpen. From what I see Rent cost us one of the runs and Wickman struck out the last batter to win it. How was Baez? How many k’s did we end up w/? I wish we could go ahead and sign Baez and Wickman for next year? It will let me sleep better
Alex-
Andy LaRoche is my biggest question. I really like him (I’ve got him in a keeper leage with a “farm system”), and he’s been doing well this year. I figure he should get a callup at some point next year and be ready for an every-day starting spot by 2008, but with Betemit in LA until, what, 2010? Laroche is going to be pretty well blocked. I suppose Betemit could move to second when Kent’s contract is up…. And maybe they’ll move LaRoche to 1B like his brother.
But I like the deal for similar reasons to those you cited: it helps both teams in the short-run (assuming the Braves IF stays healthy) and gives the Braves a guy to play at 2B if they move Giles. Also, I’ll take Aybar’s huge OBP over Betemit’s 25% K-rate any day. Provided the kid is sufficient defensively, he should be starting at second next year and leading off.
Also, I’m not sure about Aybar’s build/tools/makeup, but his power numbers don’t look that dissimlar from Betemit’s at similar ages. ‘Course, that’s with Aybar in a hitters league out west and Betemit in a series of pitchers parks in the Braves’ system….
Oh, and FWIW, Betemit’s BABIP since he’s been in the majores is like .370 which is just nuts. (Granted, his career BABIP is like .345, so it might be somewhat sustainable… but there’s just no way his BA remains as high as it currently is).
Oh, and let us not forget that if we don’t sign these guys next year, we will probably get draft picks in return.