Marlins 6, Braves 1

ESPN.com – MLB – Box Score – Marlins at Braves

Awful game. Sorry defense, poor pitching, impatient and inefficient offense. It’s one of the more dispiriting losses of the year, even though with Jason Shiell pitching you couldn’t expect much.

Shiell, as in his first start, was good in all but one inning, this time the second, in which he got Shielled. He gave up a single to score Commando Cody and then a homer to Matt “.274 Slugging Percentage” Treanor. Shiell’s line of six hits, two strikeouts, one walk in five innings isn’t too bad and he probably didn’t knock himself out of the rotation. He’s better than Travis Smith.

The Vulture came into a 3-0 game in the sixth and was victimized by shoddy defense, errors by Betemit and Giles (and poor play all around) to allow three runs. He pitched the seventh, too, Paronto the eighth. Sosa came out to pitch the ninth, since it couldn’t get much worse, but got hurt. Or “hurt”. Some speculate he was faking. Ray finished up and got a strikeout.

The Braves’ best chance was in the first, when Giles singled and Renteria walked. Bobby had Betemit bunt, which was a curious decision with your #3 hitter but not obviously ignorant; first and second, none out, is probably the best time to bunt if you can pull it off with the force in effect at third. As it was, the bunt worked, but Andruw and Francoeur struck out. They had another chance in the third after Shiell walked and Giles singled again, but then made three straight outs. Giles’ single was the team’s only hit with a runner on base, and it was an infield hit. Francoeur homered, too late, in the seventh for their only run.

All this and Pedro tomorrow. Someone serve him some bad chicken, please.

272 thoughts on “Marlins 6, Braves 1”

  1. Regardless of what happens in this Mets’ series, they’ll rub it in our faces.

    If the Braves get swept, they made a statement and just about killed the Braves’ playoff hopes.

    If the Mets get swept, they’re still nine games in first.

    Man would I love to see them have a collapse of Biblical proportions, even if it’s another team besides the Braves that win the division.

  2. The decision was worse than “curious”. Shiell was pitching! Why play for 1 or 2 runs? We had a chance to play for a big inning.

  3. It’s not like Betemit did good during his other at bats.

    And was it two or three hits from Andruw Jones that looked like home runs and were on the warning track?

  4. If I get a job at ESPN this is what I will do, in order:

    Go into an NFL production meeteing where Berman is taliking to Susie Koler and say, “Youre with me, Kolber.” Then tell her I want to kiss her.

    See if I can get Steve Phillips to sexually harrass me

    Call Jim Rome, Jamie

    Interupt Stephen A Smith and say, “Hey, use your inside voice!”

    Tell Stuart Scott to keep his eye on the ball.

  5. Maybe you can ask on-air what is with all the pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-season football on ESPN.

  6. From DOB’s latest blog entry:

    Anyway, you don’t want to hear my itinerary or moaning. Me and LaRoche don’t care what you think, anyway. KIDDING, folks, kidding. And I was pleased to see there weren’t many petty boos for LaRoche today when he came to bat, after his comments to me that ran in today’s paper.

    If I was a fan, he’d be a guy I’d pull for, because honesty and real-ness is refreshing, and you shouldn’t just like a guy because he says what you want to hear. Look what that’s done for A-Rod, being perceived as a phony who always wants to say the right things. It’s backfired on him in a huge way.

    LaRoche just doesn’t have a filter, and that’s good, in my book.

    I swear, if all of you could have a beer and shoot the crap with every Brave, LaRoche would be near the top of most of your lists of guys you’d like to hang with. Seriously. There’s a bunch of them, especially younger ones, who are as normal and down-to-earth as your neighbor, and he’s one of them.

  7. Hahaha…I’m liking those Smitty, especially the Stuart Scott one..
    See if you can get Skip Bayless and Joe Morgan to harrass you aswell.

    Well, this is ironic. I was just putting in my blog today what I would do if Espn ever hired me. It ended with kicking Dan Shanoff in the ovaries everyday..

    Yes, I have problems.. i know..

  8. Mac’s roundup pretty much says it all.

    Nonetheless, I’m not going to go crazy about this loss. With Shiell pitching, it’s always tough. I always suspect we’ll need runs & they weren’t coming today. Hopefully, we saved them for tomorrow, when we have McCann back in the lineup.

    I doubt any statements will be made this weekend. Let’s take 2 of 3 & inch back to .500. (FWIW, if we do, it’ll make us .500 vs NYM this year—somewhat strange territory.) Also, if we take at least 2, it’ll keep the orange-clad douchebags out of my office on Monday.

  9. boy i hope we dont trade for proctor, i wouldnt give up lil johnny schuerholz for him.

  10. oh Jared, I would give up little Johnny for anyone who can hold a baseball. At least we wouldn’t ever have to worry about seeing him play. I would give up some prospects for Proctor just not BeteMEEEE!

  11. “boy i hope we dont trade for proctor, i wouldnt give up lil johnny schuerholz for him.”

    Are you kidding?

  12. in which he got Shielled.

    Very nice.

    It’s pretty much what everybody said going into the series, if we can’t control the power bats of Cody Ross and Matt Traenor we are in deep trouble.

    Here’s a good one, A Rod to Fla. I’m sure he’ll say yes to that deal

    About the only point in this one’s favor is that a move from New York to Florida, and the subsequent change in state income taxes from very high to none, would be worth many million dollars per year to ARod. But still, obviously not happening.

  13. Vince Young signed a contract with the Titans today. 6 yr. 58 Million. In case you were wondering that is more that the 1st overall pick Mario Williams.(I think he got 54 mill.)

  14. it blows my mind why teams woudl sign someone to more than a 2 or 3 year deal in football.

  15. Random 5th starter plucked from obscurity and no McCann or Chipper in the starting lineup… that would be a surefire recipe for a loss. This team is not a serious championship contender this year. Yes, they might ultimately beat out the other 6 or 7 crappy teams competing for the wild card, but beat the Cardinals in round 1 then the Mets in round 1 then the AL champion in the World Series? No chance. Don’t trade away Betemit for a fool’s chance of continuing a “playoff appearance” streak. Start retooling for next year now. That means finding a spot for Wilson to play everyday not trading him away for bad middle relief help. Signing Wickman to a 1 year extension with a team option for ’08 would be a good start.

  16. I was a huge Titans fan untill they released everyone I loved. Eddie George was my favorite player and it killed me that they would just give him a 2-year contract.

  17. Vince Young signed a contract with the Titans today. 6 yr. 58 Million. In case you were wondering that is more that the 1st overall pick Mario Williams.(I think he got 54 mill.)

    Those numbers aren’t real, just advertising. Williams got $26.5 million guaranteed, Young $25.7 million guaranteed. Considering that Young is quarterback and Williams was almost a signability pick, Vince’s team of agents didn’t do anything outstanding here.

  18. Ron they wouldn’t play the Mets in the first round, if they do get the WC then they would either play Cards or the West winner.

  19. Robert the 58 mil is including all of the incentives that he stands to make.

    Sure, if he’s great he’ll get the whole $58 million and he’ll deserve it. But history shows us that players get the full advertised value of their contracts only very rarely. The only number that really matters is the guaranteed number.

  20. The post-season? Go for it.

    Baseball’s post-season is always worth it—because you never know when you’ll get that chance again. (Thirteen (1969-82) and nine years (1981-91) is a long time between sips.) Our team, unfortunately, has jostled that perspective for its fans. First-round exits, especially, are tough to digest, but I’ll take those over a fully dark October.

    I think the ’04 Astros & the ’03 Marlins had similar situations–they were in the dumper, got hot & found themselves in the WS. If this team does the same, it’ll deserve to land there–if not, so be it. But it shouldn’t quit trying because they’re afraid of the Cardinals and Mets (we’re 8-7 vs. both of them, BTW).

    This ain’t a great team—we know that. But I actually believe we’d have an easier time getting to the WS (once in the post-season) than we’ll have getting to the post season at all.

    Look, I saw Brad Penny win Game 1 of the ’03 WS in Yankee Stadium, and I recall thinking, “Why not us?” I still think that.

  21. Yeah, you always have to try to make it, becasue you never know.

    We could beat the card or the Padres in round one. Some how get beat the Mets and maybe we get the Tigers in the WS and Verlander, Rogers, Pudge, and Ordonezall somehow get hurt.

  22. Vince is probablly the best college player ever. I don’t see any problem with the contract. Now if the Titans let Vince be Vince, the league had better watch out.

  23. Nothing wrong with the contract at all. He got about what he should have gotten, a little less guaranteed than the #1 pick. It will be interesting to see where Reggie Bush falls as he could have the biggest Year 1 impact of anybody.

  24. Best College Player Ever = Mediocre at Best Pro (usually)

    I’ll start a list, I’m sure everyone will have someone to add to it.

    1.) Brian Bosworth
    2.) Chris Weinke
    3.) Heath Shuler
    4.) Kijana Carter

    not the all times, just some names that come to mind

  25. Weinke? please
    The other 3 aren’t even all that great choices

    how about HERSCHEL WALKER

  26. Vince Young was a damn-good college QB, but he lost some games in his career. He ain’t Herschel Walker—sorry.

  27. Barry Sanders. In 11 games put up 2,628 yards and 39 TDs in 1988. Another 222 yards and 5 TDs in the bowl game before sitting out the fourth quarter. Most dominant season ever. Probably can’t win the best college player ever argument since he only started one season being stuck behind Thurman Thomas.

    He translated pretty well to the pros. QBs don’t translate as smoothly.

  28. I am a Vol fan and love Heath, but he wasn’t better than Manning

    Not in any order:
    Herchel Walker
    Bo Jackson
    Reggie Bush
    Al Wilson
    OJ Simpson
    Doc Blanchard
    Glen Davis
    TOny Dorset
    Earl Campbell
    Andre Ware
    Red Grange
    Orlando Pace
    Sammy Baugh

    This could go on forever

  29. DL, DL, DL, I hear that he needs to be on the DL until Sept

    Atlanta RHP Jorge Sosa, reduced to a mop-up role after losing jobs as both a starter and closer, left the game while facing his second batter in the ninth. He’s been ill for several days and apparently had a relapse in the heat, forcing Ken Ray to finish out the inning.

  30. I think I was misunderstood, I was listing “great” College players that went on to be NFl busts…..sorry, I’m not a retard, I just play one on here….

  31. I admit.. Adam has been growing on me as of late..

    Don’t get me wrong, I’ll still argue Frenchy feverishly in the debate…but Adam is ok. I really hope he keeps hitting the ball well… good for him.

  32. you guys haven’t watched vince over his career – he has won 20 straight games, became the first player -ever- to throw for 3000 and run for 1000. He led the nation in passing effeciency. All of that with playing in the 4th quarter in ONLY 5 games last year. In those 20 straight wins, we punted only 32 times when vince was in game. We score TD’s almost 70 percent of the drives he led.

    But most of all he did things that no one else can do. We had a game last year against Kansas when we were down in the 4th quarter and facing a 4th and 19. Vince rolled right, steped out of the tackle of an all-american linebacker then took a few steps out of bounds. We were all in shock that vince would go out after gaining just a few yards. Turns out he gained 21. He did that all the time. He made the game look easy, like he was playing against a bunch of kids. Most of you saw what he did against USC, he did that every single game. No Texas fan was surprised that we scored at the end to win. In fact everyone I was with (about 30 people) just assumed we had won the game when we got the ball back.

    I’ve seen Hershel, Bo, Sanders, Ricky Williams, Vick, Campbell, Flutie, Frazier, etc. but no one compares to Vince.

    Highlights

  33. Vince Young was a great college football player but he does compare alot to one of my favorite players Mike Vick. Mike has and will continue to try and win with his legs and I hope for Vince’s sake he doesn’t do the same. Plus his throwing angle is horrible(sidearm) and he is used to playing out of a shotgun formation, in Tennessee he will be under center.

  34. Player A
    104 Carries
    617 Yards
    87 TDs
    5.9 Avg

    87 Completions
    161 Attemps
    1231 Yards
    54% Percentage
    6 Ints
    8 TDs

    Player B
    155 Carries
    1050 Yards
    12 TDs
    6.77 Average

    212 Completions
    325 Attempts
    3036 Yards
    65% Pecentage
    10 Ints
    26 TD

    I’ll let you guess who player’s A and B are…

  35. There are high school teams in Georgia that could have beat half the Big 12 last season.

  36. When I say Herschel Walker was the greatest college football player ever, it’s not because I saw all of his 36 games or not because was at UGA for his last 2 years—I did & I was.

    It’s because when you take into account an entire collegiate career with his individual numbers and his team’s accomplishments, I don’t know how you can do much more than he did against that level of competition. He was great from his very first game to his last–you can’t say that about Young. For Herschel, there was no letup. His teams won one mythical national championship, 3 SEC titles & went 33-3.

    Also, if he’d come back his senior year, stayed healthy and had an “average year” for him, he’d still be the all-time NCAA record holder. And Georgia people from that era know how often Herschel was sitting in the second half of games.

    BTW, in 3 years, Herschel’s Dawgs NEVER lost an SEC game. Not one. You look up those rosters of the teams they beat & you’ll see that’s saying a lot.

  37. Of course, Georgia didn’t play Alabama in those years or they probably would have lost once or twice.  Bama was 27-8-1 in the years Walker was at Georgia. In his first two seasons, they went 19-4-1, three of the losses and the tie out of conference.

  38. Bama had very good teams & they might’ve given us a good game or even beaten us (although I doubt it). But I remind you that, as good as Bama was or might’ve been, we never lost to Georgia Tech in those 3 years. Somehow the Tide managed to do that.

    Due to the rotating 6-game SEC schedules, UGA didn’t play LSU either. But in those 3 years UGA was 8-0 vs. Florida, Auburn & Tennessee (including 2 44-0 games).

  39. Hokies all the way. Great offensive line, and a hell of a defensive. I’m going to go out on a line and say Xavier Adibi and Vince Hall are going to be All-Americans. Little bit of a QB sitiuation but thats ok we got Brandon Ore.

  40. The important thing to remember about Herschel is that he can’t be the best college player ever because he didn’t go to a legitimate DIV-1 school, he went to UGA. He’s definitely one of the best juco players ever though I heard he made a B in Jim Harrick Senior’s Fundamentals of Basketball class.

  41. If you don’t mind me asking but how old is everyone? It seems like alot of you people already been to college, have families and careers.

  42. Jason Shiell is no answer to anything. The guy just does not have ML stuff. He can’t change speeds well enough and his fastball is nowhere near good enough to get away with that. I also thought the pitch-calling was pretty bad, although I guess that’s Pratt’s fault. Sucky game overall.

    Jay, I don’t think all of us are so old. There are several college/grad students on here, and there’s a nice range of ages. I’m 18, so I guess I’m on the low end, but this isn’t an AARP convention. ;-)

  43. Oh, I wasn’t calling anyone old. I was just asking because I just turned 17, I hope I didn’t upset anyone.

  44. Wow, that was a really subtle burn by Charles. Man I hope Florida beats UGA this year, along with half the freaking top 25. What a tough schedule!

  45. Wow, ububba, I wouldn’t have guessed by your personality that you are 43. Man, you’re ancient. haha. Just kidding…

    Jenny being 18, on the other hand, is a no-brainer. Just kidding again, Jenny. By the way, you need to get on AIM one of these days. What the crap?

  46. And yeah, Jenny, not enough difference on that change-up of Shiell’s to fool anyone. I did enjoy the discussion during the game about how to disguise your change-up. Stomping your foot extra hard when you land is just perfect. When playing whiffle ball with friends I usually make some ungodly grunt like I’m throwing it as hard as I can to disguise mine. Works like a charm, even if they know it’s coming.

    /loves a good change-up

  47. Has anyone been to Tropicana Field? I am going to Florida next week and I have amazing tickets for the game against the BoSox.

  48. Jay10,

    My Dad was at the Juicer last week and really enjoyed it. Cheap parking and they got inside just before the daily afternoon showers started.

    If you get a chance, the Salvadore Dali museum isn’t too far away. I highly recommend checking it out, if you like that kind of thing. Enjoy your trip, we’ve vacationed in Tampa/St. Pete/Tarpon Springs the last few spring trainings and have had a blast!

  49. There should be rules against domes in baseball and football. I’ll never go to a Falcons game as long as they play in that stupid dome.

  50. Oh please:

    Trade winds a blowin’: While the Braves have had a few conversations with the Nationals about Alfonso Soriano, multiple team sources have said it doesn’t appear the power-hitting Soriano will be coming to Atlanta. He’ll be a free agent at the end of the year and the Braves don’t feel they’d be able to re-sign him.

    There have been numerous sources who have indicated they believe Wilson Betemit will be dealt to the Yankees for right-handed reliever Scott Proctor. But both the Braves and Yankees have legitimate concerns in regards to this deal.

    With Jones still not completely healthy, the Braves are hesitant to move Betemit, who, after some years of struggle, has proven to be one of the game’s top young talents. As for the Yankees, Kyle Farnsworth’s ongoing back problems — something he battled in Atlanta last year — make them hesitant to move Proctor.

    But the overwhelming belief among sources from around the league indicate this is the most likely deal the Braves will make before Monday’s non-waiver trade deadline.

    http://www.noticias.info/asp/aspComunicados.asp?nid=205208&src=0

    Soriano is almost certainly not even on the Braves’ radar.

  51. 25, just married finished college

    Does anyone think its possible for Giles or Betemit to possibly play left field next year. If we hold onto both we need both in the lineup. Of course this wont solve the leadoff spot, but Betemit might be able to do the job. Or will Langy’s defense make him our best solution there again next year? Just a thought

  52. Wow, I really am the old guy-50. And I just got my AARP card (not kidding, they send them out when you turn 50). I was in grad school at UGA during Herschel’s freshman year and I was a TA in political science. I didn’t have Herschel in my class, but I knew the TA he had and the reputation he had (in some quarters) for being a good student was not really deserved. But I saw him up close in the political science office once and, man, this guy was chiseled. His neck was bigger than my thighs. I think he was the best college player because he won a national championship with an utterly mediocre team. I love the Dawgs but Georgia was no more the best team in the country in 1980 than I’m Mariano Rivera. The SEC teams that Georgia played in those days were down and they still struggled in a lot of games. Not to mention that it took a 96 yard pass play in the last minute to beat the Gators (and I still get chills whenever I hear Larry Munson’s call of the play). Without Herschel, they would have been a .500 team.

    The Braves are a mediocre team. The Marlins showed what happens when they face good pitching. And, compare the Braves staff to the Marlins–other than Smoltz, the Marlins’s staff is much better. If this is the best JS can put out there, maybe it’s team for a change.

  53. Csg- I dont think thats a good option for either player. Giles seems to be too small for the outfield position, and I know they did try Betemit out there, and from what I understand, the results werent pretty…..

  54. Remy, I work for a bank (I wont mention which one) and if you’re not getting free checking you’re getting ripped off my friend. If your paying for anything its time to change…

  55. Lance, I didn’t think it would be either. Im just trying to find a way to squeeze everyone in there. I guess we have no choice except to get rid of Betemit or Giles. I would give up Giles for relief pitching, but for Betemit we should look for a leadoff hitter to play LF.

  56. Thanks for the tip, csg. I think my main problem is that my balance is too low. Alas, the woes of an English major never cease.

  57. I’m listening to Brian Jordan on fox sports radio, I had no idea he was author of children’s books.

  58. I’m 24, and I’ve been married for just over 2 years. And I’m pretty confident that I could have guessed most of the regular posters’ ages within about 2 or 3 years.

    Jim Thorpe is the greatest college football player of all time. Actually, I’d say it’s pretty hard to determine who the best is, but at least you can make a reasonable argument for Herschel. Vince Young (even with his amazing Rose Bowl performances) probably isn’t even one of the 10 greatest college quarterbacks of all time.

    That said, as a Titans fan, I’m awfully glad they’ve got him under contract. That means the Billy Volek era can’t last too long!

  59. And Rob, I want to like you, man, but if that’s going to happen, you’re going to need to lay off the pro-Florida stuff. You’re aligning yourself with a pretty wretched group of people.

  60. I am two months younger than Andruw.

    LanceinFL, I bet Thorman has won himself a job in left field next season. Langy and Diaz will continue to serve as backup in the outfield. One of Marcus and Betemit will eventually be traded, and Kelly Johnson will be the supersub next season. I remember the Braves have positive comments about Kelly’s ability to play second and third (no shortstop please). If they can find a take for Pete Orr, I bet KJ and little Tony Pena will be the backup infielders next season.

  61. KC, like I said yesterday, I might be in the minority but I dont want Diaz anywhere near this team next year. He hits for a decent avg, but with little power that he should in SP. His defense is horrible and has cost us a few runs.

  62. Diaz has slugged .438, which is on the low side for a corner outfielder. But if he’s really a .314 hitter — and it appears that he is — he’s a valuable bench player. .314 hitters don’t grow on trees.

    Thorman in 69 AB has hit twice as many homers (4) as Diaz has in 153 AB.  On the other hand, he has a .278 OBP.

  63. csg, Diaz is obviously nothing great, but he is already better than many Braves backup outfielders for many years…the name of Darren Bragg immediately comes to my mind. I think having the backup outfielders in Diaz and Langy are very solid, and I honestly can’t see the Braves moving either Marcus or Betemit to the outfield. It’s just not a JS/Bobby thing to do. Do you remember any Braves switching position during the middle of their major league career besides Chipper?

  64. David Wright absolutely murdered HoRam last season, I am definitely looking for better results tonight. Go Braves, let’s sweep the Mets!

  65. Put me down for 25…Married for 4 yrs… :)
    Also finishing up some college while working full time.

    I must say that Olson looks like a legit future ace. He just seems to have that bulldog mentality on the mound. Shiell on the other hand, I just pray a lot when he is pitching. He seems to need it.

  66. I honestly am more mad about the 2-1 lost in the first game than the 6-1 lost yerterday.

  67. Well, Smitty, Pedro is just off the DL and had an ERA of over 6 in June before hitting the DL, El Duque has an ERA of 4.8 since joining the Mets, and Tommy also has an ERA of around 5 since the start of June. If our pitching can hold up (my biggest concern is Huddy), a sweep is not as hard as it seems.

  68. Goal should be to win tonight and then look at tomorrow. Need the good Horam to show up tonight.

    Also, for any stat guys. Can we find out what the teams Era is when Pratt catches and when McCann catches. Also I would really like to know Huddy’s record w/ the 2 different catchers. I know McCann caught a complete game for him and was catching a great game for him last time out until Pratt came into the game. Just interesting if someone can do that, thanks.

  69. Diaz’s career numbers are .287/.328/.419/.747. Like Franceour, he never walks, but he also rarely hits for power with 4 hrs in 272 career abs compared to Thorman’s 4 hrs in 69 abs. He’s not a good fielder nor a fast runner either. Basically he is at best exactly what he’s been used as: a backup/platoon outfielder and pinchhitter. Thorman seems to me to have the potential to turn into a Ryan Klesko like player. I’d rather keep sending him out there most of the time and find out if that is the case. Put Diaz in against the tough lefties, but give Thorman most if not all the abs vs righthanders.

  70. As I have mentioned many many times in May, the Mets pitching will not hold up over the entire season. If the Braves play to their ability, I honestly still believe the Braves can catch the Mets. Yes, I know the math, but you never know how those Mets will react with a little bit of pressure…oh wait, yes we do…they will choke!

  71. csg, I was asking for the same stats a few days ago, and I still couldn’t find it. I remember both McCann and Pratt each caught a complete game by Huddy earlier this season.

  72. I like Thorman well enough, but let’s not get crazy. Thorman is 24 and has a sub-.300 OBP. When Ryan Klesko was 24, he was in his second full season in the majors and hit .310/.396/.608.

  73. Thorman’s minor league stats are ridiculously similar to Adam, so I never have high expectation on Thorman…but for some reason, I like that kid more than Adam…of course, I am still hoping Langy will develop into a Paul O’Neill kind of batter.

  74. Glad to see that there are some old time Braves fans out here. I’m 48. Even happier to see all of the young Braves fans that really care.

    I think that Kelly Johnson wins a starting position next year. Langerhans, Diaz and Betemit are a pretty good bench.

    Not sure how I feel about moving Wilson Betemit this year just because the NL sucks so bad that we still have a snowflakes chance. Betemit may be our 2b of the future.

  75. Thorman has, at the very least, probably secured a job as 4th OF and left handed bat off the bench for next year. He can also play 1st, which makes him more valuable. Diaz just doesnt have the power, which, in my mind makes him expendable.

    I am 31, College Grad, married,2 kids, and I’m a paramedic in Volusia County, Fl. The long 24 hour shifts will help explain my brainless posts sometimes…..

  76. This from ESPN, seems like the Brewers raped the Rangers on this one:

    Carlos Lee To Be Dealt To Rangers
    The Brewers are trading slugger Carlos Lee to the Rangers as part of a multi-player deal, ESPN’s Keith Law has learned. The Brewers are sending Lee, Nelson Cruz and a player to be named to Texas for reliever Francisco Cordero and outfielders Kevin Mench and Laynce Nix. Both teams are working on the medicials.

  77. anyone seen this

    Jul. 25
    News: Hudson experienced cramping in his pitching forearm before leaving his last start, the Atlanta Journal-Constitution reports. “I probably didn’t hydrate like I should have,” he said. “I’m a cramper. I’ve always been a cramper.”

  78. There is lots of denial here about the Mets. Saying they are going to choke just because they have in the past is sort of wishful thinking–these are different players. They are a good team, albeit short of pitching. But so are the Braves. I have no confidence that this pitching staff can stop the Mets hitters. You might as well say the Braves have choked in most of their biggest games–the playoffs. To me, the Braves have shown no reason to think they can make the kind of run necessary to catch the Mets. They have had a nice little run and, granted the Mets are far from a great team, but I can’t see the Braves making up TWELVE games in six weeks with this pitching staff.

  79. Remember, Mench lost his job — to Mark DeRosa. Nix had shoulder surgery last year, was demoted to AAA in April, and hasn’t played particularly well there (.263/.316/.427). Plus the Brewers have lots of outfielders already and still have Jenkins, Clark, and Gross. Cordero is insane and has a 4.81 ERA.

  80. If Davies comes back healthy and can come w/ good form and Huddy can turn it around we have a nice rotation. These are big IIFFF’s though and we all know Shiell and Sosa cant stay on this pitching staff. We still need another starter and relief pitcher, I think

  81. Nix is kind of a throw-away, but I still like Mench and Cordero. Would have loved to add Cordero to our ‘pen…

    Still, you’re right about the crowded outfield. You think maybe another trade is coming? Jenkins to the Tigers?

  82. Isn’t Lee gonna be a FA after this year?

    From all I’ve read & heard, this is Milwaukee saying 1) goodbye to the ’06 playoffs and 2) we won’t/can’t sign Lee for big money in ’07.

    Of course, in Texas Lee could put up some scary second-half numbers. And, as a future big-ticket FA, he’s got plenty of motivation. Funny how that works out…

  83. The Brewers scare me. If they can get some solid pitching they might figure back in to this wild card thing. Though, I think dumping Lee might mean they are waiving a white flag.

  84. I’m 22, just graduated college myself. Carlos Lee is an absolute monster, far more than he ever was with the White Sox. Part of me hopes that he falls prey to Jeff Cirillo syndrome, but that’s just because I’m mean.

  85. Just to make some of the older guys feel better, I’m 56, and no I haven’t joined AARP.

    I live near Seattle, and was checking out Cleveland’s reaction to the Broussard trade in the Cleveland Plain Dealer (what a great name for a newspaper) and found this note that I thought everyone here might enjoy.

    “Marte file:

    Shapiro returned from Buffalo after watching third base prospect Andy Marte and the Bisons for three games.

    “Marte looked better in spring training,” said Shapiro. “He needs work.”

    If the Indians were in contention, Shapiro said, Marte would stay in Buffalo a while longer. But they aren’t, to which Shapiro said, “We’ve got to start the transition soon. That means he’s probably going to struggle a little bit when he gets here.”

    I don’t post often, but really enjoy the insights everyone has about the Braves. I think KC’s just about right on about some of the moves for next season, KJ as “super sub” and either Giles or Betemit will be traded.

  86. Jay, I go to school about 20 minutes from Tropicana Field, so of course I’ve been there a good dozen times. It’s not the nicest stadium in the world, but the dome is pretty cool and the temperature is always nice. You can basically sit anywhere you want too, unless you get really greedy.

  87. That trade blows for the Brewers, a bunch of useless parts for a good power hitting outfielder. I done see it. Maybe they can spin them off in other deals for something useful.

  88. And yeah, what a good trade for the Rangers. They deal a bunch of useless spare parts to get a great outfielder. Otsuka did blow a save badly against the Yankees two nights ago, and they may need to make a deal to get some bullpen help.

  89. I really like the Cleveland Plain Dealer, it is a good paper. In the south we don’t have a lot of good news papers, the Chattanooga Times is probably near the top, if not the best, in the south.

  90. I like the Gainesville Sun. They have really good sports writers. They are big Gator homers, and according to Stu :), that’s not a good thing. He may just be choking on the fact that his team is the Kansas City Royals of the SEC. I’m just kidding with ya, JDizzle…

  91. I often wonder if the AJC would have become a “national” paper if Bill Kovacs had been allowed to run things without interference. For a while in 1988, there were signs that the AJC would, indeed, become such a paper: there was groundbreaking reporting in Africa, news services were picking up stories, etc. And all this before the Democratic convention came to town. Instead, Ms. Cox and Co. decided that they’d rather plaster notices for After Thanksgiving sales at Rich’s on the front page instead of real news. Fish wrapper!

  92. Rob, your school doesn’t even have sports (at least D-1), so you had to latch on somewhere else!

    And if it’s a baseball comparison you want, next year we’ll be the Tigers of the SEC. I repeat: the only sport we’re no good at is football!

    Also, Smitty, the Chattanooga times is terrible. It’s just like most of the rest of the papers not only in the South, but across the U.S.

  93. Man, I’ve really picked the hated teams. The Braves, the Gators, the Jaguars. Is there a hated NBA team I can take up, or can I just be the biggest Kobe fan?

  94. Stu, I was a HUGE Gator fan wayyy before I had ever heard of CCC. And hey now, my Clearwater Cougars are solid in women’s soccer!

    Do the Commodores play UF this year?

  95. ESPN reporting Carlos Lee and Nelson Cruz (listed as a prospect, but he’s already 26) to the Rangers for Kevin Mench, Laynce Nix, and Francisco Cordero. That’s quite a bounty to pay for less than half a season of Lee.

    But like everyone has been saying, if the Rangers can just sure up their offense, they should own third place.

  96. The Commodores play UF every year, Rob; we’re both in the East.

    What I’m saying, though, is that I have a vested interest in Vandy athletics (an alum), whereas you’re just a fan. Maybe a longtime fan, but still just a fan.

    You can thank the officials for your victory over us in The Swamp last year, by the way.

    People hate the Jags? I know of no one who is not completely indefferent toward them.

  97. Marc, as I said, we are all smart enough to realize the realistic picture, but sometimes it’s just fun to make some brainless comments, especially when the team is 12 games back.

  98. Rob…you being a Jaguar fan and me being a Dolphin fan means akward tension.. :D

    I’m still not over Jax ending Dan Marino, my all-time fav. player’s career like that.

  99. Also, the type of hatred directed at the Gators and the Braves is completely different. For the Braves, it’s a hatred developed from jealousy. The team wins every year, so nobody else’s team gets to.

    For the Gators, it’s all about their obnoxious fans (at least now that Spurrier’s gone). Seriously, I’m sure most UF athletes are fine (Teddy Dupay not withstanding); it’s the miserable fans that make the Gators so despised.

  100. Jenny, I knew you were 18, but I didn’t realize Miranda and Elizabeth were even younger… I guess I’ll have to be on my best behavior, or at least stop cursing profusely and endorsing alcoholic products. I’ve already decided to stop telling Yo Mama jokes, because of how poorly they worked last night.

    I’m a new man, girls.

  101. Oh yeah, forgot Vandy was in the east.

    So hold on a second, Mr. Stuart. If I don’t give UF my money as a student (by the way, they don’t have my major…), then I’m somehow less of a fan because I never went there? Right.

    Officials? Don’t even, dude. Did you catch the last two minutes of the UF-UT game two years ago? Don’t even talk about officials, bud.

    And yeah, there are pleeeenty of people in northeast Florida who hate the Jags. It’s mostly a disdain towards the front office, but there’s definitely a lot of hate towards my Jags.

    At the end of the day dude, you’re still a Commodores fan. I have to admit, they’ve come along way from the 2-9, 3-8 seasons from the ’90s and early ’00s, but they’re still Vandy.

  102. And thanks to Urlhix and Rob Cope for the tips on Tropicana. I’m not D-Rays fan but the tickets were free and they are on the first base line.

  103. I just read a good article on foxsports.com. It’s about how this could be the first year since 1990 that both the Braves and Yankees miss the play-offs. I liked it because it had some nice things to say about the braves, and even said we may even have a slightly easier road than the yankees.

    The Brewers reportedly offered Lee a 48mil deal yesterday and he said no. That would have been the the most they had ever offered a player in franchise history.

  104. So let me get this straight. You make a decision on something or someone based on its presumed followers? “I’m not gonna be a Republican because my neighbor’s a republican and he waters his grass too much!” Stu, you should know better than that.

    And Davey, I’m sorry about Marino. That was a dark day.

  105. I doubt that the Rangers can offer more than 48mil. But then again maybe its not about the money. (wink, wink)

  106. Davey it will be fun. I have family in Virginia and my uncle has 1 open ticket he said it is between me and his new girlfriend. I will kill if he gives it to her.

  107. No, I’m a Commodores alum, not just a fan. There is a real difference. And it may not make you less of a “fan” that you don’t go to Florida (maybe you want the Gators to win as much as I want the Commodores to), but like I said, it means you have less of a vested interest in the team. Anybody here who’s been a part of a student body knows what I’m talking about, I would think.

    I’m sorry, how does the UT-UF game relate to the Vandy-UF game? Vandy handed it to you in the Swamp, and you just got bailed out by a phantom call. As Bobby Johnson said at SEC Media Day yesterday, Southern Baptists can get away with more dancing than Earl Bennett did.

    And if you wanna talk UT-UF officiating, let’s take another look at Jabar Gaffney’s touchdown “reception” at the end of the 2000 game…

  108. I think that means you trail all of us in age, Elizabeth. I was born in 1971, the year Hammerin’ Hank slugged over .650, hit 47 HR, and had a whole bunch of RBI. Not that I remember it.

  109. That’s not what I said, Rob. I have no reason to follow the Gators; I didn’t choose not to based on the fan base. That said, if you are a fan, you’re going to be lumped in with that group. And, in general, it’s not a likeable group with which to be associated.

  110. Who is excited about this game tonight???? I cant wait!!!!!!!!!!!! Im worried about Pedro though. He caould be great, or he could stink it up. oh well, we will see.

    Cheers
    Dan

    (Approved but on probation — MT)

  111. I don’t see it, JD. Student status at a school does not give you anymore “vested interest” than someone who isn’t a student. You’re gonna tell me that the people that just go to UF because their mommies and daddies are paying for it have more “vested interest” than me? And like I said, UF just didn’t have my major. I have just as much interest in Clearwater athletics as the next student, but at the end of the day, I have a Gator faceplate on my car and not a Cougar. There’s a reason for that.

    And don’t even bring up 2000. That was a catch! He had possession for long enough! Haha

    I understand that I’m lumped in with the group of obnoxious, stupid Gator fans. It’s not like we all are. And while I understand that that is human nature and it’s just the way it is, it doesn’t make it anymore right. I expect more out of a knowledgeable guy like yourself.

  112. oh come on mac! Its the atlanta mets series. now more then ever is the time for some freindly trash talking. unless you think the braves may lose this series…….???????…….here is a bet for ya, if the mets lose this series i ont come on here untill next mets/braves series…… I will honor this bet if i lose. So come on you tomahawk chopper

    Cheers
    Dan
    (Approved but on probation — MT)

  113. You’re taking this waaaaaaaaaaaaay too personally, Rob. It’s okay to make fun of a rival’s entire fan base. Really, it is. You could call me a spoiled trust fund kid, since that’s what an awful lot of Vandy students and alums are or were, and while it’s not true, I understand that it’s a common perception. And I would laugh it off, because it’s (a) from someone who doesn’t know me, then they have no idea what I’m like, anyway, or (b) from someone who does, then I know they’re just giving me a hard time.

    You may not be white trash, and Smitty may not be an ignorant redneck, and Wryn may be able to read, but you share a love for a team with an awful lot of people who do fit that description, so saying “Go Gators” is going to bring some heat.

    We’re going to have to agree to disagree on the student/alum vs. the regular fan thing, too. Spending 4 (or more) years on a campus, living with the athletes, and being completely immersed in a school leads to an increased attachment to that school’s team, whether you, as an outsider, can sense that or not.

  114. “They need pitching along with everyone else.”

    #163 was sarcasm, or did you know that?

  115. You know, now that I think about it, maybe the student vs. outside fan thing is different for bigger and smaller schools. I could see how a bunch of students at a school the size of UF could end up feeling no more connected to the players than a longtime fan; at Vandy, though, it’s small enough that you have classes with players, see them at parties, and share stories to a point where there’s more of a connection.

  116. I hope so,CSG. We can’t let him get away I don’t care what anyone says. If he becomes a FA then he will become a YANKEE with everyone esle we release.BTW has anyone else noticed that, I mean Jarret Wright, Gary Sheffeild, Kyle Farnsworth, and Nick Green.

  117. “anyone think we will offer Andruw an extension this offseason?”

    Yes, and he won’t sign at the advice of the greedy Scott Boras.

  118. Agree to disagree. Go Gators!

    At the end of the day, I don’t take the Gator-fan bashing at all personal. I make my point that I’m seperate from the perception, but that’s the extent.

    Go Braves.

    Go Cougars.

    I guess Go Jags.

  119. The Yankees go after anyone that has 1 good year.

    And it seems like the Falcons always get at least 1 Hokie and I am fine with that.

  120. Smoltz, Chipper, Bobby, and Andruws dad need to sit down w/ him and talk about staying w/ the Braves. Andruw and Boras shouldn’t be allowed in the same room together.

  121. If I bump into ‘Druw during the offseason at a supermarket down here (which has happened before)… I’ll have a talk with him (wink wink)

  122. Rob,

    Jabar Gaffney’s “catch” in 2000 was a clear drop. A former Vandy reciever was the offical that made the call.

    In 2001 Grossman threw a ball in a defenders chest as he was getting hit and it wasn’t ruled grounding. Tha Gators get away with more stuff than any SEC team. In 2004 if that defensive back hadn’t shoved back, no flag. But he got busted.

    Vandy was robbed in the Swamp!

    I agree with Stu on the smaller school thing.

  123. Mac, if you’re asking for input, I lelieve in the effectiveness of reform. If one violates probation, banishment is always an option.

  124. I’m 18 and heading off to college in a couple of weeks. I think it’s kindof funny that all the girls on here are pretty young.

    I’m also in the camp that thinks we don’t have a chance at resigning Andruw. We lucked out once before when he chose the team over money, but Boras is his agentso I don’t see that happening again. If it was going to, he’d probably have already fired Boras. What’s the good of an agent if you and your dad are just going to work it out anyway? I don’t want to imagine an Andruw-less Braves until he retires, but I’m bracing myself for the all-too-real chance of that happening.

  125. It depends, as long as he doesn’t come on and bash us then I don’t care. We don’t “bash” other teams, we just have opinions.

  126. Well a couple of weeks ago both Andruw and Chipper said they would rather retire then play for a team other than the Braves and play for a coach other than Bobby. (this was reported on BBTN by Peter Gammons.)

  127. Yeah, but Chipper’s already gotten his pay-day. I hope that’s true about Andruw, but I suspect he’ll be blown away by offers from other teams.

  128. A small amount of good natured rivalry is not a bad thing.

    I’m also afraid that Dan and ‘Rissa are right about Andruw. We’ll offer and extension and that D#@n Scott Boras will persuade Andruw to decline it. Boras almost always takes his clients to free agency, whether it’s in the best interests of his clients or not.

  129. I have a completely, totally unrelated question. Does anybody on here use T-Mobile? What do you think of it? My campus is, for some reason, in a fairly dead spot for Verizon, and last year I was on roam all the time, calls were of very poor quality, and I couldn’t even make them unless I was next to a window or, worse, outside (in Minnesota, this is a big problem!). So I’m thinking of switching, since our plan expires next week. Any DC-area people around here have T-Mobile? How’s the coverage?

  130. What if Andruw dropped Boras as his agent the day before he turns an FA and then he resigns w/ the Braves. Boras wouldn’t know what to say or do.

  131. I think that we should give him a respectable contract because of his play and his loyalty thus far.

  132. come on mac. lets have some fun. as to not saying anything being negative about the braves, that is out of the question. I dont like the braves. You dont like the mets. Thats just the way it is. there will be some braves & mets bashing of some sort. Thats what makes the damn thing so much fun.

    Did yall hear about glavine trying to lobby for madux to play for the mets. Its hard enough to stomache glavin every 5 games let alone having to watch madux too…….i think im going to puke from the thought of it.

  133. I don’t post nearly as often as some guys here, but I usually end up being able to read most of the comments (though sometimes when I miss a game, going through 400+ comments is too much to keep up on). You guys do a good job keeping it lively & entertaining – it’s nice to see a variety of views and see people remain civil even when disagreeing.
    Mac, you’ve done a great job w/ the site – I appreciate your providing a forum for like-minded people.
    BTW, I’m 30 (to add to the thread from earlier) and feel a kinship to urlhix (comment #72 above)

  134. Speaking of fans of hated teams, my dad is a fan of the Phillies, Eagles, UGA and Florida.

  135. Old Atlanta teammate Tom Glavine, now with the playoff-bound Mets, has been lobbying to get Maddux in New York, and maybe Maddux has changed his mind about pitching there if he could be in a pennant race with his good friend.

    Smitty:….no. That was in direct reference to the 2 old braves players that are washed up and was once a part of a great team that is just a shell of its former self.—-the players and the team.

  136. Well my dad went to Florida for college and graduated from there but then my mom was going to Georgia and they were living together so he decided to take classes at Georgia. So he roots for both. It’s more of a rooting for the Georgia football team and Florida basketball team.

  137. Glavine, Pedro, Beltran, Wright and all other Mets players make me puke….Madduz doesn;t bother me unless he goes to the Mets then I’ll probably dislike him too!

  138. For all who are interested, I’m no longer anti-Glavine. I’ve changed my tune on him. I still cheer against him, of course, but I harbor no ill will. I’m growing, people.

  139. Has anybody else noticed that Beltran’s mouth is always open? It’s so weird, he’s always just standing there and his mouth is open.

  140. imagian how much you will disslike the mets when we win our division by 20 games, and Win the NLCS. Im not sure about the WS. The AL has some great teams.

  141. David Wright doesn’t make me puke. He’s a class act and a fun ballplayer to watch. It’s ESPN’s constant pandering of him, turning him into the next Derek Jeter, that makes me want to puke.

  142. elizabth:

    Worse then that check out the huge mole on the side of his head….its the biggest one i have ever seen!

  143. I once asked my friend (A-Rod lover) why A-Rod’s lips are a weird color sometimes and she said it was because it’s cold in NYC and I said to her “It’s cold in JULY?!” and she didn’t answer haha.

  144. Well, Alex Rodriguez sucks. Or, to paraphrase noted Yankees fan Rudy Giuliani, speaking of the Atlanta Braves: He sucks. He sucks completely. He sucks with conviction.

    * Actually, it was SNL, and Darrell Hammond said this while impersonating Giuliani. But who’s counting?

  145. “…now with the playoff-bound Mets…”

    Boy the media loves writing/saying that over and over again.

    I don’t own a cell phone and I’m proud of that.

  146. I think Andy Marte will be a career disappointment. And I don’t say that just because he is not with the Braves, I said that when he was still here.

  147. I’m back….Dan I kinda agree, if you can only hit .261 in AAA then it doesn’t bide well.

  148. While looking up Marte’s AAA stats (decent not great), came across Jonathan Schuerholz’s line at AAA this year:

    .160/.249/.188 in 281 PAs. Wow. Just wow. Five extra base hits in 250 at bats.

  149. I don’t see him as a career disappointment but he’ll certainly never live up to the hype. I see him as a .270s hitter with decent power (25 HR & 30 doubles) and solid defense. Maybe like Adrian Beltre with better plate discipline.

  150. I’m back….Dan I kinda agree, if you can only hit .261 in AAA then it doesn’t bide well.

    I think Marte will be a plus player. His average at AAA is something like we saw with Betemit. When guys climb the ladder quickly at a young age and then the team leaves them in AAA for a while their numbers can suffer because they are trying too hard to make a big splash and get promoted. If Cleveland just hands him the keys to third and gets out of the way, they are going to have a player on their hands.

    And we’ll have Chipper stumbling around third for 90 games a year.

  151. AAR—I’m going to Asbury College in Kentucky. It’s a sort of small school with a great media communications department. They send students to the Olympics every two years to work the cameras and stuff (only school in America to do that). I doubt I’ll have a shot of going when I’m a sophomore, but I’ll be a senior the next time the Winter Olympics come around and hopefully can go then. The ultimate goal is to get some cool stuff on my resume (apparently ESPN, CBS and other networks have called Asbury and and asked for students to do some free lance work) so I can work cameras on Braves broadcasts, but we’ll see…

  152. csg, .255 w/20HR’s, that’s Wes Helm with 500 AB’s. Nothing to write home about.

  153. Robert what do you mean we will have Chipper stumbling around for 90 games?

    Just that his feet are bad and not getting any better and they way he is going 90 games a season in the field is what we will be looking at.

    Sorry, overly pessimistic line which was unnecessary to my point that I think Marte will be quite good once he’s established.

  154. bmac, exactly. I dont see what others do in Marte, he’s shown glimpses of power but nothing more. I would take Betemit over Marte any day, but then again I’m not a GM so I’m probably wrong.

  155. I think we need to make Pedro work and try to get in their bullpen early. That could be the key to this three game set.

  156. Hopefully the Phillies game will get rained out so my dad won’t keep telling me to turn the Phillies game on instead of the Braves.

  157. We need someone on this team that’s prepared to throw down when one of our guys gets hit.. Eddie Perez / Randall Simon / Gerald Williams style..

    Maybe Pete Orr could do some of that

  158. If the Braves win tonight, you have to like their chances of taking the first two with Orlando Hernandez pitching tomorrow.

  159. If Pedro’s off his game, you can usually tell right away. He won’t have his stamina tonight, so we’ll see the bullpen. Let’s hope it’s early & let’s hope it’s Heilman.

  160. we should make Pedro work the count and get into their bullpen early. He cant have a strong outing, but I’m sure we’ll find a way to let him go 7 innings on 60 pitches.

  161. jenny, as far a t-mobile goes, DO NOT believe their coverage maps. Talk to some one who has them and lives near you. We re-upped with them before we moved because the map put us in a full coverage zone, but we have dropped calls all the time and rarely get above 2 bars worth of reception. Customer service is no friggin help either.
    Other than that, I’ve been pretty happy with them.

  162. Tejada to Angles
    Balt. asked for Howie Kendrik, Scot Shields, and Ervin Santana
    Stoneman said no`

  163. I think the Yankees will get Mark Redman and Reggie Sanders from the Royals for a bunch of prospects.

  164. I would have said no too. Howie Kendrik is the starting 2nd basemen next year and years to come. Ervin Santana would look good in a Braves uniform don’t you think so?

  165. Barry Zito

    The Mets remain heavily interested in the Athletics’ southpaw, according to Newsday, but New York is worried about creating another Scott Kazmir-type public relations firestorm if they let go of Lastings Milledge. Other New York papers have noted that the A’s are willing to part with Zito if Milledge is involved.

  166. Do we have anything the Twins need?
    I’d love to get Juan Rincon, Dennys Reyes, or anyone else in their bullpen.

  167. I don’t know. Maybe if Shannon Sterwart is still on the block we could take him off their hands.(If I remember correctly they are trying to get rid of him, but he is injured.)

  168. I really thought that Pittsburgh would be trying to sell some of their players. Damaso Marte, Mike Gonzalez, Roberto Hernandez, Solomen Torres. Somebody, I would still like Mike Gonzalez out of these 4 but not likely.

  169. Oakland has alot of good pitchers. They desperately need offense.

    ATL- Justin Duchscherer

    OAK- Marcus Giles(I know he isn’t hitting well but he is hitting better than Mark Ellis.)
    Maybe a prospect like Eric Campbell who is hitting well.

  170. I’m 38 married, 3 kids live in alabama. I have ALS, been in a wheelchair for about 3 years now. I type and do everything on a laptop using two buttons mounted to the headrest on my chair via morse code. That is probably TMI, sorry! I wonder who Clemens will end up with, Surely he isn’t going to ride that sinking ship down?

  171. Mark Ellis- .220 5HR 23RBIs 29 Runs 3 SB

    Marcus Giles- .249 7 HR 34 RBIs 59 Runs 8 SB

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