ESPN.com – MLB – Box Score – Braves at Yankees
Okay, it’s not much, but this year I’ll take the victories where I can get them.
The Good Horacio put in an appearance — actually, it was a bit beyond the Good Horacio, considering the opposition. He went eight, allowed one run (scored earned by blatant hometown scoring on an obvious error) and walked but one. He struck out three, including Damon twice, and allowed eight hits, all but one a single. Against that lineup (Damon-Jeter-Giambi-ARod-Posada-Williams) you’ll take that every time.
Jaret Wright almost matched him for six innings, the one run coming in the second. Andruw doubled, McCann got him to third with a groundout, and Francoeur (hence, Kid RBI) scored him on a single. That was pretty much it against Wright, but the Braves broke through against the bullpen.
LaRoche hit a solo homer to make it 2-0 in the seventh. The Yankees got the run back in the bottom of the inning. Posada had doubled and was on third with two out when Chipper made an error — he out and out dropped the ball — on a grounder that was inexplicably scored in infield single. For the second night in a row, Torre tried to get a second inning out of the reliever and it backfired, Francoeur singling in Renteria (who had stolen second leading to an IBB of McCann). They got two more runs — off of Kyle Farnsworth — in the ninth, with Betemit and Chipper doing the honors. Sosa allowed a solo homer in the non-save situation to finish the scoring.
Bobby started Andruw at DH then brought him in for defense. Did he used to lose the DH like this in Toronto? It’s very frustrating. At least it didn’t backfire this time. Day game tomorrow.
Well, I guess the best option is to put Chipper at DH full time and have Betemit play third. But do you really do that to Chipper? And if you don’t, who’s the obvious DH candidate?
I didn’t mind the managing today. And BTW, congrats on tying Joe McCarthy, Bobby!
It’s not really worth making a “set” strategy for the DH for six games a year, is it? Tomorrow’s our last game at an AL team this year, unless by some miracle we make the Series. If Andruw needed a day off from running around center field, fine.
I say we DH Todd Pratt. Maybe Orr.
Rules don’t let us, much as I wish they would.
I don’t mind using Andruw to DH — let him rest. But is the advantage of Andruw over Langerhans late worth losing the DH? What’s more likely — that CF defense will come into play, or that the game will go extras and the loss of the DH will hurt you offensively?
The Yankees were two runs down and had the bottom of the lineup coming up in the 9th. A team will score 2 runs in the 9th inning only about 15% of the time, less when you consider that the Braves had the 9th inning to score runs as well. Also, innings that see 2+ runs scored often see extra-base hits a CF can do something about. I have no problem with Cox using the DH as he did.
Well, I guess the best option is to put Chipper at DH full time and have Betemit play third.
I’ll bet that’s what happens tomorrow — at least, I hope so.
bullpen has obviously improved, defense looking better, a little clutch hitting. i hope we can keep it up because the team that was out there tonight looked pretty damn good. noone said it, but i was happy for giles coming in with a hit and scoring a much needed run (although he would have been nailed at home if posado could’ve held on). i just pray to the god’s above that bobby tries renteria at the leadoff tomorrow and lets giles go to batting 2nd. i would love to see this lineup in the interleague finale:
that just sounds like a win!
As bad as this month has been, a win against the Yankees is especially sweet.
Why didn’t we resign that Fawnsworth fellow? When/If Pitchers get/stay healthy and hitting keeps up things will look up.
I was at the stadium tonight. Quite a game by Horacio, but since we all slag Bobby i thought I should mention his brilliant move in the late innings – switching druw out of the DH, shifting langerhans to left, inserting Giles into thorman’s slot and Ramirez into the one hole. giles singled and betemit, pinch hitting in for Ramirez/Orr, drove him in. I’ve never seen a manager do that with the DH, though i don’t like the AL game and don’t watch it much. that was truly Bobby at his best.
Great game by HORAM, I thought the balls and strikes were again awful like last night. These floating strike zones are driving me nuts. Randy Marsh missing a call, only the stars aligning kept Angel Hernandez away from home plate. If they could only add Doug Eddings to this crew, we could know where the crappy Brave hating umpires are at all times.
at least we are not in last all by ourselves anymore. Great game tonight, we need the good Smoltzie tomorrow.
I haven’t watched the last 2 games, but since we won one and lost the other I guess it doesn’t matter (I’m very superstitious about sports). So I will try to watch tomorrow. nyyfans game threads are sooo much fun when they lose. That is the sole reason I have an account there.
Great start by HoRam today and nice job not blowing it in the end. Maybe we are turning a corner?
If Hudson and Smoltz remain consistent, and HoRam and James can continue to be that good, the remaining of the year can be a big surprise considering the pitching has been the main problem all along. If Sosa can indeed fit into the closer role, that will be even more awesome.
Ok, the only bad news of the day…Reitsma is coming back…
I can only hope he will be used in the long-relieve role.
I missed most of the game… what is this about Bobby’s use of the DH? I’ve been re-reading the threads but am still unclear what happened.
Also, maybe more comparisons between and bashings of LaRoche and Frenchy will render more solid results from both of them. Let’s keep it up!
Gosh, kc,you again prove to be one of the posters who seems to think the way I do.
I generally came into work this morning in a positive mood…and not just because Horacio had another great start, this time on the road at Yankeee Stadium. A real gut check win.
But you just posted exactly the subject I wanted to address this morning: Why I think the Braves have an opportunity to get back into a Playoff chase, at least for the Wild Card.
If Horacio is now the real deal, as is Chuck James, I have to stupidly believe that more often then not the rest of the yr., we will see the All Star calibre versions of Hudson and Smoltz. We may not, but I guess I don’t want to believe that. I want to believe that we are going to see 2 aces again…and along with our 2 lefties (and again, not sure what’s gotten into Horacio but I am happy to give Andie MAcdowell credit if that’s where it belongs), that theortetically gives the Braves 4 very very good starting pitchers the rest of the season.
Look, in the past, the Braves have always won with pitching & defense. I think we have to accept this is going to be a mediocre offense the rest of the year, whether Bobby finally wakes up and moves Giles out of leadoff or not. That said, our defense (at least in the infield), is also not as good as past years.
All that aside, barring injuries or mental breakdowns, I refuse to believe we don’t now have 4 quality starting pitchers who give the Braves a legitimate chance to win 4 of 5 nights…and who knows, maybe John Thomson settles in and at least is a passable 5th starter with an occasional win again. Plus, if we start winning more other nights, overall team confidence will rise again and we may start winning some games we shouldn’t.
But last night’s game has given me hope, at least to compete this year, get back in the race and fight through September.
If you look around at other National League teams (and I agree w/ ESPN…there is only 1 good team left in the NL right now, the Mets and the NL in general is maybe having its worst year in years–a huge disparity between the leagues), no other NL team can potentially offer 4 very good starting pitchers regularly, save for maybe Houston (Pettitte, Clemens, Oswalt & one of their young guys stepping up).
Imagine if Davies got healthy and was finally the stud youngster we feel he may become…that gives us 5 chances to win.
But all the NL teams…the Cards, the Phillies, the Reds, the NL West teams, the Brewers…no one really has more then 2 really reliable starters.
hell, even the vaunted Mets are questionable after Pedro & Glavine…there’s no guarantees that El Duque holds up or their no names pitch well still. They may have the offense it seems to offset that, but if Horacio and Chuckie James continue to pitch like this, we should have one of the top 3 starting rotations (playoffs or no playoffs) the rest of this Baseball season.
But it all boils down to 1 simple thing…Hudson & Smoltz HAVE to pitch like…Hudson & Smoltz.
Going back to Reitsma again, I know Mac has mentioned it before…I wonder why the Braves still haven’t considered trying Reitsma as a starter the same way they prepared James. I mean, now is the best time to do it as he is coming back from an injury…on the other hand, I guess I can ask the same question as to why the Braves still haven’t moved Marcus out of the leadoff spot. I guess executives are just stubborn like that.
Now, going back to the starting pitching. When Hampton is coming back next season, there will again be a surplus in starting pitching in Hudson, Smoltz, Hampton, Ramirez, Davies, and James. Boy, the future of the Braves looks so good.
Regarding the suddenly hot Chipper-Andruw debate that I inadvertently started for today’s thread, I am definitely taking Chipper’s side.
I have personally always been driven crazy by Andruw’s .260-.275 batting average and even though Chipper isn’t the player he was, he’s always had more patience and hit for a higher average then ‘Druw.
And since both have been equally inconsistent this year, it’s close to a wash but I will side with Chipper.
Yes…a definite starter surplus though we can pretty much lock down the fact that the Braves will not be attempting to re-sign John Thomson in the offseason.
Still, with Horam under contract, and a healthy Hampton and Davies, and a proven Chuckie James…that’s 6 starting pitchers.
You know…if Smoltz was WILLING TO CLOSE AGAIN…then we’d still have an excellent 5 man rotation (Hudson, Hampton, Ramirez, Davies & James) and a stud closer…but hey, what do I know!
That being said, if Smoltz won’t budge, then hopefully we can trade a quality starter and improve the bullpen and the offense. There are always teams who need quality starting pitching.
As for Judy Reitsma, if we are actually going to let this man pitch in a Braves uni again (and for the LIFE of me, I can’t figure out why…I stupidly assumed he was DONE as a Braves…I dreamed about this being the case), then it:
A) needs to be as a MOP UP reliever for now
B) not in a closer’s role
C) have 2 relivers warming as Judy even starts his warm ups on the mound.
I am 100% serious about this. Judy gets to pitch batter by batter. Seriously. Treat him like an effing Kindergartner because he is.
He gets to pitch to 1 batter…if he gets the guy out (amazingly), he gets another batter…gets that guy out, he gets a chance to finish the inning.
And his first 5 appearances at least, that’s how we treat him, until this loser proves he can pitch like an actual Major Leaguer. the first hit or walk he gives up, I would kick his arse off the team for good.
I am so not kidding about my absolute hatred for Reitsma as a player. He sucks…he shouldn’t even get one last chance. But if the Braves f— around now after last night’s “building block” win at Yankee Stadium by Horacio, then I am going to kick my TV in and drive to Atlanta searching for JS and Cox. Honestly…will it take Reitsma killing their family pets to get this guy off the Braves already?
So yeah…the first BUNT SINGLE Reitsma gives up, I would DFA him. In my book, that man should be living on borrowed time. Hell, even the Royals and D-Rays wouldn’t give this guy a 32nd or 33rd chance like the Braves are inexplicably doing it seems. Good G-d.
Seriously…at what point to all of us…kc, Landogarner, Brian J, Mac, Davey, Stu, Jenny, AAR, ubbuba, Rissa, Rob, myself…put on robes and grab pitch forks and head down to the CNN Center in the cover of night on Judy Reitsma?
I mean, as much as we argue about LaRoche (and even his defenders don’t think he’s that great) , we don’t have other great options at 1st and he hits the occasional home run…but what the hell value does Judy Reitsma HAVE? He’s a right handed Tom Martin at this point. He’s Travis Smith.
Jim Bowden…the ‘Dubyah’ of Baseball? I am surprised Jim doesn’t refer to himself as ‘The Decider’.
Read his comments at the bottom of this post on the ESPN.com Rumor central Page:
Nats looking to deal?
Jun 19 – In an effort to possibly put himself in a good light with the team’s new ownership, Nationals GM Jim Bowden is interested in making a deal involving one or more of the Nats’ veteran players.
And four players — outfielders Alfonso Soriano and Jose Guillen and right-handed pitchers Livan Hernandez and Tony Armas Jr. — have been talked about as those who could be on the move at some point in the next month or so.
When asked if he would make a deal with the Yankees — despite the Yanks’ supposed lack of quality young players — Bowden told the Washington Post, “[the Yankees’ farm system] is not that dry. It’s wet enough for me.”
Apparently, Jim is either coyly referring to his latest drinking binge or a sexcapade.
Who will Bobby send down to make room for Judy? Has he even pitched in a minor league game?
I hope Barry stays, he should have earned it, maybe Yates or Paronto?
5 in a row…Did you say you were at work Alex?…Well so am I, but this is way more appealing than working.
Smoltz needs to be big today. IF we have any chance at all, it needs to start with guys like Smoltz.
The last thing we need is for Reitsma to rear his big head back into the bullpen. If that happens, I feel all I will be able to do is laugh.
It’s all about starting pitching (hasn’t it always been that way?). If we get starts like Ramirez gave us last night, then we can win a lot of games despite our patheticly inconsistent offense and even more pathetic bullpen.
The Braves are way too far under .500 to even start talking about the wild card yet. Get to .500 and 2nd in the division first then we can think about playoffs.
Reitsma is back? W-T-F! Well if it means Yates or Villareal gets sent down, I guess it wouldn’t be too bad. We’d just be replacing crap with different crap.
Seeing Farnsworth flounder last night made me glad we didn’t overpay to resign him. We should’ve spent the bucks for Wagner because it would have improved our bullpen enormously and hamstrung the Mets. Seeing Sosa give up another homerun makes me doubt how successful that experiment will be. Ray was doing a pretty good job closing with much better numbers than Sosa. Why not keep him as closer and use Sosa as setup?
I’ve always thought the Yankees were all wet.
Seriously, Reitsma’s coming back? Scuherholz really thinks his last year and a half is a fluke? Yates should be the one to go down, but I suspect it will be Barry.
Alex, you ain’t kidding. Gotta love how the article tries to blame his injury for his poor pitching. “Reitsma had a 10.71 ERA in his last 20 appearances before going on the DL.” Given that his overall ERA is 9.11, that means he wasn’t any good even before that point.
And Chipper’s not any better a hitter for average than Andruw at this point- since the beginning of 2004, Chpper’s batting .274.
My guess is Paronto’s gonna get sent down or DFA’d, depending on whether he has options left. The bullpen’s been overworked, so I think they’d like to hang on to Barry’s (relatively) fresh arm for now. And Paronto has just been awful of late.
Also, where the heck is ububba’s report? I really look forward to those when we’re in the Big Apple.
Guess who leads THE MAJORS in two-out RBI’s? I’ll give you a hint, his nickname isn’t Huckleberry Hound.
Totally off topic but did you all see that move Ronaldo of Brazil put on Ghana yesterday. I’ve never claimed to watch soccer much, but I can’t stop watching that crossover. Amazing!!!
Seeing that Reitsma is coming back is not the first thing you want to find when you wake up… ughh..
Ah well, looking forward to our possible Chip vs Drew debate..it seemed to help us in last night’s game 😀 (not that I’m superstitious or anything)
Like I said..must go with Druw.. my fellow island mate.
We’ve been over this, Lando. Even with two out and men on, Frenchy makes an out over 70% of the time.
Stu, who can’t we say that about? Othen than Barry.
Well I after talking with Frenchy, he said he will not try as hard and wehn he does get a hit, he will make the most of it (RBI’s)
Mac, the DH switch wasn’t about Andruw’s defense over Langerhan’s; it was about Langerhan’s defense over Thorman’s.
Looking at the names in the box score, though… man, where do the Yankees dig up some of those relievers? At least we have the excuse of being cheap to explain the jobbers in our bullpen.
And it looks like $15M for 3 years of Farnsworth would have been way-overpaying. Can you believe I am saying that with our bullpen.
One thing seeing Farnsworth reminds me of, one big reason to turn this season around. Remember – he left us because he said we did not have a chance to win.
Frenchy looked good until the 9th with the bases juiced. He got to “excited” i guess and couldn’t lay off crap. The kid is gonna be great someday, as soon as TP is gone.
I’ll take Chipper, he could bat leadoff right now. His obp is always high and he is a switch hitter, Chipper for leadoff!
Ray hasn’t been awful. Nor Sosa (in the bullpen), of course. You’re right about the others, though. Still, everyone else would seem to have more upside. Yates throws 97. McBride is young and, more importantly, left-handed. Villarreal at his best–admittedly a rare occurrence–is better than Paronto. And younger. Cormier can start. Sort of.
I dunno. I realize the whole ‘pen is pretty awful; I just think Paronto is the MOST awful with the LEAST upside. And I think Barry’s valuable right now because I’m assuming his arm hasn’t logged as many innings (although I haven’t actually checked his Richmond numbers for this season).
Flip Giles and Chipper? Hmmm, might work
I’ll take Andruw because of his age, defense, and less-burdensome contract. Not necessarily in that order. He’s maddeningly inconsistent offensively, and it would hurt me to lose either of these career Braves who have meant so much to the organization, but based on the above and the fact that Chipper seems to be in genuine decline, the choice is pretty easy, in my opinion.
Brian I could care less. He’s obviously doing something right if he is leading every single person in all of baseball in two-out RBI’s.
Yep, he’s doing this right: showing up and having Bobby pencil him in the 6th hole every night.
Seriously, I’m not even going to respond to this nonsense anymore. It’s like Kyle S said on a thread yesterday, some people, despite being smacked in the face with all the evidence, are just going to ignore it. I would suggest that you join me, Brian.
Stu, I wasn’t talking to you so please do ignore me. Thanks.
For some reason Sosa as the closer feels right. It doesn’t make any sense really.
If he can come in and throw strikes like he has been then I’m sold. His fastball is hard to hit, he just has to start it over the plate and it jumps around so much. The dinger last night was not a terrible pitch and it is Yankee Stadium with a little league right field.
Reitsma is the most awful and he should try out in the minors on a dl assignment before he comes back to destroy this bullpen again.
Chipper for leadoff!
Here’s to hoping Frenchy only bats when there are two outs and we have runners in scoring position.
francoeur total runs produced: 79. 2nd on the team behind andruw (93). yes, you are completely right stu, he is useless and should be in little league somewhere. some people are just smacked in the face with evidence and yet they still ignore it. throw out the “new look stats” on baseball and realize that only runs and runs produced really matter. his job is to get runners in and so far he is doing a pretty decent job.
ryan, he has used up many more of the braves’ outs while “producing those runs” than has any other player. your calculus is not a fair measure of his skill. also, his job is not only to get runners in, but to get on base himself, and he’s done a very poor job of that so far (by far the worst of all the starters)
This is getting silly…Lets all step back and realize that Frenchy has done some things wrong and some things right. He is by no means a complete player. He makes way too many outs while driving in his fair share of runs when given the chance. He IS not coming out of the lineup. He IS not the reason why we have been stinking the joint up so much.
Just to add my two cents worth to the Francouer/LaRoche thing, I’ve notice LaRoche’s batting average goes up with runners on base, and is highest when there’s runners in scoring position. I don’t know if this is still the case (and am too lazy to go look), but I always had the impression that LaRoche was more of a player who could keep rallies going but would rarely start them (and I know he strikes out a lot and is terribly slow and thus a double play candidate, but even a great hitter will get out 6-7 times for every 10 at bats.) I think Francoeur might be a similar player. He makes outs like crazy, but does drive some runners in.
Anyway, neither players are great, but both have some assets. The question is with the way the Braves are designed, can we afford two okay players at those two positions? If we had an Andruw from last year and a Chipper from the late 90s and a Marcus from the rest of his career, this wouldn’t be so crucial. As it is, some players are struggling (compared to what they should be doing), and so the weight has fallen to these okay players (whether still developing or not) and that’s when it becomes an issue.
ryan c, I never said he shouldn’t be on the team. In fact, I said just the opposite. (It’s true, you can go back and check.) I’ve simply tried to point out the flaws in the arguments of those who claim that he’s (a) an above-average Major League hitter, or (b) a more valuable piece of the Braves line-up than Adam LaRoche right now.
Notice that the same people failing to look beyond Francoeur’s RBIs are the same ones who fail to read the entirety of an argument. How predictable.
Yes Stu is the oracle of braves baseball. All he says is true and anything said against him is predictable and lacking in full knowledge of the topic at hand while ignoring all other facts. How right Stu is in all things baseball.
If only he could see the irony in his point of view. It entertains me so.
and you think laroche is more valuable than francoeur? i just now have realized how skewed your brain really is. stu, are you in law? i’m not trying to get personal, but sometimes i feel like you could point/counterpoint yourself with your posts. the only person right arguing with stu is stu. and by the way, my “kicking francoeur off the team post” was a hyperbole. i know you didnt intend for that to be the meaning of your post, but i like extreme exaggeration.
Well, hold on, Francoeur’s clutch hitting is quite notable so far, and the “evidence” clearly supports that. With men on and 2 out, he is .273/.294/.606 in 66 AB. That includes 18 hits, 1 2B, 7 HR, 28 RBI, 2 BB, and 14 SO. What that tells you is that he doesn’t just get a hit, he drives the ball so that runners have a chance to score from any base (including home plate 7 times). He’s also very good close and late: .281/.323/.596 in 57 AB, including 16 hits, 1 2B, 1 3B, 5 HR, 18 RBI, 1 BB, and 11 SO.
Let’s compare these numbers to Big Papi’s (“Mr. Clutch”). Men on, 2 out: .333/.425/.651 in 63 AB, including 21 hits, 5 2B, 5 HR, 26 RBI, 9 BB, 9 SO. Close and late: .244/.311/.659 in 41 AB, including 10 hits, 2 2B, 5 HR, 13 RBI, 4 BB, 10 SO. I don’t know how to ballpark adjust these numbers, but the ballpark effect favors Ortiz (particularly the doubles).
So Ortiz’s batting average with men on/2 out is quite a lot better, but to lesser effect, and quite a lot worse close and late. Francoeur’s RBI numbers aren’t superior only because he’s penciled in every day: 66 AB/63 AB and 57 AB/41 AB are not big differences. Francoeur has fewer PA in close and late situations than Utley, David Wright, and Delgado, to name a few, and only a couple more than Giles, Andruw, and Edgar. He’s not in the top 10 (MLB) of PA with 2 out/runners in scoring position. Francoeur is clearly the clutch Braves hitter so far, with Andruw being a distant second.
Thank you Jeff! Let’s watch as Stu ignores your stat smack in the face and somehow manages to convince himself that Huckleberry Hound is more valuable than Frenchy.
JoshQ summed things up well: Framcoeur is just very good (hitting for power, range in the OF and throwing arm) at a few things and very bad at a few others (pitch selection, hitting for average). If he can just become “okay” at the things he’s very bad at, he’ll be an above-average players. If he becomes “good” at those things, he’ll be a star.
It’s also worth noting that his BABIP for this year (.276) is well below his career norm (a bit over .300), which suggests he’s been a bit unlucky this year.
Anyhow, if he becomes as patient as, say, Andruw, he’ll be as good or better than Andruw. If he becomes as patient as, say, Chipper, he’ll be a HoFer.
I think, for this season, as of June 28, LaRoche has been a better player than Francoeur.
Just because I disagree with you doesn’t mean I disagree with myself, ryan c. Show me a contradiction you think I’ve made in this LaRoche/Francoeur debate.
And I’m in agreement with jenny, Brian J, Kyle S, and LatNam, among others, on this issue, so it’s not like I’m just refusing to agree with anyone on this point.
And do you often get in arguments where you think you’re wrong? I don’t understand the “you always think you’re right in an argument” criticism. Isn’t that true of everyone who argues?
Ouch, ryan c, there may be lot’s of us lawyers here. (Slow day at the office.)
Make that “lots.”
Jeff I stand in admiration of your debate skills. What kind of law do you practice? If I ever need a lawyer I am hiring you.
Hah! I never thought of a Braves blog as a business development tool. Environmental law, so you’ll only need me if you spill something or accidentially fill in a wetlands.
Hmm, not even close 🙁
Study up on the FDCPA so I can call on you when in need 😉
Don’t wait until the credit collections agent knocks.
My business employs the agents 🙂 We need you for defense against the debtors!
In that case, don’t wait until the disgruntled debtor shows up at your office.
What are LaRoche’s close-and-late stats, Jeff K? And what’s the best place for me to look to find such info?
One point is this: if Jeff got on base or did more (or anything) with the bat before the 7th inning, as LaRoche has done, maybe we wouldn’t need his less-than-30%-reliable heroics late in the game.
The general point, still, is this: you can find a stat or two to argue that any one player is better than another–Lance Cormier’s career K/9 is 5.75, compared with Mark Buehrle’s 5.24–but I’m still convinced that the more reliable and comprehensive stats show that LaRoche’s value has been higher than Francoeur’s so far this season.
Hehe that happens once in a while. We’ve been pretty lucky in avoiding major lawsuits too.
Let’s not dig this hole any deeper than it already is, Stu. I didn’t refer to “a stat or two” to show Francoeur’s superior clutch hitting this year. I referred to basically every significant offensive statistic. And what’s this “less-than-30% reliable heroics” crap? A .300 BA in clutch situations is stellar, not another Mendoza line.
LaRoche’s stats with men on/2 out don’t compare: .231/.355/.462 in 52 AB, with 12 hits, 6 2B, 2 HR, 16 RBI, 10 BB, and 18 SO. Close and late he’s much better, but the run production still doesn’t compare favorably: .300/.429/.675 in 40 AB, with 12 hits, 3 2B, 4 HR, 6 RBI, 9 BB, and 11 SO. The obvious difference close and late (and this is no knock on him) is that LaRoche is more selective and will take the walk, which helps his BA and OBP but doesn’t drive in the runs.
I’m not looking to take anything away from Adam, I think he’s a pretty good player, although his offensive slumps can get a little too lengthy at times. He’s just nowhere near Francoeur this year in terms of clutch production.
You can find all kinds of sortable stats on ESPN.com, baseball-reference.com, etc.
Somebody mentioned Francoeur’s runs produced as being second to Andruw’s. Doesn’t that statistic take into account runs scored which is significantly influenced by getting on base? If so, then Francoeur truly has been impressive in his production with the bat as OBP is cetainly his weakness.
Although LaRoche’s contribution to the team is probably higher than his batting average (and detractors) would indicate, I would be curious as to which statistics show that he has “been a better player than Francoeur.”
It’s all counting stats. Francoeur’s in the lineup every day. And I think this thread has run its course and will now be closed.