The longest-tenured pitcher on the staff other than Smoltz, even though he isn’t any good. Last season, his ERA (4.63) finally matched his 2003-04 peripherals, only to see his peripherals get even worse. His strikeout rate was the worst in the National League (3.56/9IP — next worst was 4.35) and he allowed 31 homers (sixth in the NL). His control improved a little, probably because his breaking stuff was so bad it all stayed in the strike zone. For whatever reason — a loss in velocity, or loss of his best breaking stuff — he was utterly unable at times to finish off hitters. But when behind in the count, he was truly awful. After getting up in the count 1-0, the average National League hitter hit .334/.421/.525. In other words, if Ramirez doesn’t get the first pitch over the hitter hit like Todd Helton.
Is there anything good to report? Well, pitchers usually have trouble their first season back from an injury. But this was a mysterious injury, one never diagnosed to my satisfaction, so I’m not certain it’s actually gone or ever will go away until they know what it was. He did hit well, .219/.230/.260.
The Braves don’t have an established lefthanded starter other than Ramirez, so they’re likely to stick with him. I’m not wild about this. I agree that it would be nice to have a lefthander in the rotation, but if Sosa and Davies outpitch him it would be foolish to stick them in the pen while he buries the team in the early innings. But he was terrible when tried out as a long reliever as well. Lefties didn’t murder him like righties, but a .267/.316/.372 line is not exactly great for a LOOGY.
I think he is trade bait, but who will take him?
I think the Reds would take him for Griffey.
Maybe he will be part of the Griffey deal
If I am thinking like Terrance Moore, I should go back to bed.
It’s okay, Smitty. I was posting as Terrance Moore. And you and I have thought similarly in the past.
Life’s still worth living.
Every game night during the season, my roommate who knows absolutely nothing about baseball) would point and laugh at me every time that he saw Horacio on the mound. Even HE knew it was going to be a long night. Every time HoRam pitches, I watch each pitch scared that the next one will be redirected to the bleachers.
I was there at the game in early July against the Cubs (the first game of the double-header in which Francoeur made his ML debut in the second game), and he looked great. Like a complete game with only 3 hits or something. It kind of got my hopes up for HoRam. They’ve since been dashed.
Sad when the only positive thing to be said about a player is that he had a .490 OPS.
i was at that game as well. horacio against mark prior.
i don’t recall the final score but i do remember julio putting one in the right field seats, putting the game out of reach. horacio attributed his complete game to a talk he had with Maddux earlier in the series. Greg told him he wasn’t being aggressive.
maybe horacio will benefit from a new pitching coach. let’s hope.
I’d love to package him with Thompson to get a quality lefty and #3 man in our rotation. Maybe even pick up a prospect in the deal, but I still wish we had one more solid pitcher in our rotation to go along with Smoltz, Hudson, Sosa, and Davies.
i know it is probably totally bogus, but griffey jr in a braves uniform would raise attendance, an donce again put excitement back in a lot of dulled out braves fans. would be a great day to be a braves fan if it occurred.
Fully signed up on the view that HoRam is tosh. Andruw Jones would probably do a better job pitching!
Griffey to the Braves is pure speculation isn’t it? But would be a great trade for us – if we have up HoRam ….
It’s funny how you can separate Braves fans by their feelings about Horacio Ramirez. I would rather have James, Davies, or Lerew and an extra $1.9 million than have captain ding-dong on the mound. I think the Braves made a mistake by offering him arbitration.
Perhaps the strategy is only to have Horacio pitch at home in 2006. His road ERA was 5.69 – over 2 full points higher than his home. Rubbish.
Yeah, I haven’t seen the Griffey rumor mentioned anywhere else, and I’m not exactly sure how the money would work. We’d presumably give up one of our corner OF guys and pitching, but unless Thomson is included in the deal or we get A LOT of cash back, I don’t see how the money works out. For arguement’s sake, Thomson/KJ/Davies or Lerew might get it done, but I kinda doubt it. Griff is huge name and still quite a good player, and the only person we’d be losing who could play anywhere near his level would be Lerew, and I don’t think most people project him to be a top-2 in the rotation guy.
Also, Cincy is looking to fix their OF/1B logjam by moving Kearns for Clement, which I think is a much better deal for them than anything the Braves would offer for Griffy.
I’m confused about said logjam…I thought trading Casey to the Pirates solved that. What am I missing?
The only downside with Griffey (apart from possibly overpaying / giving away someone like Lereew – which I wouldn’t want to do) is that he is liable to get injured and miss 3/4 of the season. Then we are in the same position as we are now …
who would you trade for griffey?
thomson
langerhans/johnson
or
brian jordan straight up?
I think Brian Jordon is a little too much to give up …..!
Wouldn’t be keen to lose Thomson. He is good value if you look at comparitive pitchers
A glum (graphical) take on Francoeur.
As someone indicated in the previous thread, if it’s January we must be about to trade for Griffey. Did the Reds ever get back to us on that Quilvio Veras/Reggie Sanders/Luis Rivera offer?
Why would we want Griffey anyways?
To much risk and not enough reward.
Denny Neagle has extremely poor judgment.
Ouch ….. why? Why? Why? Why?
Ewwwww. That’s just gross.
Unbelievable. He should be prosecuted for drug abuse, too, because that’s the only possible explanation.
I have obtained another picture of Neagle’s lucky girl.
She looks more attractive in that photo
Are we even sure she’s a woman?
Thanks, Mac, now I’m going to have nightmares for weeks. That’s nasty. And he paid $40 for it, too!
I’ve seen better-looking women at the Clermont.
I’ve seen better-looking women at the Clermont.
Oh wow, the Clermont Lounge? I can’t believe someone else has been to that place.
Sadly, Neagle’s chick would have headlined the night I was there.
A lot of us have been to the Clermont, Kyle. We’re just too ashamed to talk about it. Skankadelic!
I’m trying to decide if it’s a man or a woman. The neck looks suspicious but the usual Adam’s apple clue is ambiguous. Maybe a post-op? No normal woman looks like that.
I am NEVER going to Denny’s. Neagle or the restaurant.
Once upon a time, in the late 70’s, the Clermont was the home of the Triple Play – the only mother-daughter-grandma act in town. Oh yeah, the guy who was the Mayor of Munchkinland in the Wizard of Oz used to hang around all the time back in those days. Now THAT is what I call creepy.
Neagle played with Andruw for two years and Chipper for three and a half, you’d think they could have set him straight.
So to speak.
I guess I should have said “in the late 1970’s, when dinosaurs roamed the earth” for the benefit of most of you 🙂
About the Francour graph, I think it indicated pretty much what we knew about him: he was never going to hit for a great average, but he would hit with some power. And that’s about what that graphical analysis says. I think .270/25 would be a fine line for Francour for next year, especially with his good defense in RF.
Thanks for the history lesson, spike. I almost spit out the glass of water I’m drinking.
By the way, the Coco Crisp-for-Andy Marte deal is apparently nearly dead. And it’s the freaking Indians who killed it! Right now, people are treating Andy Marte like he has Ebola or something.
Let’s review:
1. The Braves have a future franchise corner infielder: “Let’s trade him,” says Schuerholz.
2. Andy Marte for Julio Lugo: “Heck no,” say the Devil Rays.
3. The BoSox acquire future star Andy Marte in return for one of the most disappointing players on their roster: “Let’s trade him,” says the Boston front office.
4. Andy Marte for Coco Crisp: “Yes… wait, no,” say the Indians.
JC admitted to crying himself to sleep after looking at Marte’s minor league projectables after the Braves got rid of him. Oh, and he was the BEST PROSPECT IN ALL OF BASEBALL last year. So clearly SOMEONE thinks that he’s not complete trash. But the way he’s been treated this offseason, you’d think he’s Dennis Tankersley.
What gives?
I’m not even sure Marte is involved in the deal anymore. The last version I heard was Clement, Shoppach, and Delcarmen for Crisp after Shapiro threw a fake hissy fit over Mota’s physical in the original Marte/Shoppach/Mota deal, demanded Mota AND Delcarmen, and Theo told him to go screw. I think the Indians are afraid of the PR hit of trading Crisp (Cereal Boy is apparently the most popular player on the team) and think Marte won’t help them compete THIS year, which they think they can do. So they’re trying to extort Boston and Boston’s not biting. Looks like either Kearns or Michaels may become involved.
If the Red Sox let “Manny Delcarmen” hold up this trade, then they’ve once again proven to be penny-wise, pound-foolish. (Surely they already have too many Mannys on the Sox as it is?)
Jenny, try to look at the deal from the Indians POV. Their doctor goes to Shapiro and says Mota’s shoulder is fragged. Don’t you think that would change your evaluation of the Sox package? The Sox FO are the probable source of all the info regarding what trades were/weren’t acceptable to whom – it’s their standard m.o. thanks to Larry Leak-cino.
Anyway, the Indians certainly have no need to make the trade if they don’t want to – they will be fine with Crisp and Boone. The Sox, on the other hand, have Adam Stern pencilled in so far. Guess which side of that deal is more nervous?
Neagle played with Andruw for two years and Chipper for three and a half, you’d think they could have set him straight.
So to speak.
Denny: “Andruw, I’m considering paying a woman for sex. What should I check for, an Adam’s apple, or a package?”
Andruw: “Both of ’em…count it!”
That joke never gets old 🙂
Sansho, I’m with Kyle. That joke needs to live on!
Thanks guys, I agree that it must live on! You know, I had a horrible day at work today, but all my troubles just dropped away when I typed that. If I ever get into meditation, I already know what my mantra will be!
Okay, I’m a dummy. What’s the “count it” thing and Andruw? I’m so dumb, I laugh when you guys reference it, and I don’t even know what it means!
Speaking of Andruw, here’s a pretty nice study that shows maybe he’s not slipped in the field as much as thought….
http://www.baseballmusings.com/archives/012863.php
second bass, that’s from Andruw’s Gold Club trial testimony. Smitty posted the following excerpt a while back:
Jones: ?There were two chicks in the room messin? with each other.?
Prosecutor: ?What did you do then??
Jones: “Both of them, count it.?
Spike or anyone, can you explain what the actual numbers mean in that center fielders table? I’m glad to see Andruw at the top for full-time center fielders, but I really have no idea what any of those numbers mean.
The two important columns are Actual Outs and Predicted Outs. Actual Outs is the number of putouts recorded; predicted outs is what the model says an “average” CF would record, given the same chances.
Someone on Primer converted these figures into runs; here are those results.
Horacio Ramirez is maybe a only southpaw in SP this year. Health full season is indispensable to him, now.
Everybody says “YES”, but I’d like to say “NO” respectfully. It looks more ug** ’cause she wore heavy make-up. Maury Show, this is a place that I would highly recommend for her.
I am glad that I could bring something to this board, classic!
From the exactly 4 minutes that I’ve watched Maury, I think it’s too high-class of a show. She’d fit better on Jerry Springer.
Calling Maury Povich “high-class” is like calling Colin Farrell sober and chaste.
In comparison to the Springer show, I think it’s valid.
And now, an update from the Department of Former Braves Insanity Monitoring:
Javy Lopez wants a 3/24 extension from the Orioles.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! LMAO! Tell us another one, Javy! And while you’re at it, pass the bong!
Thanks, sansho1! And Smitty, of course….
do you guys think there would be any possible way to get smoltz, maddux, and glavine in the same rotation again for one more year in 2007? that would be incredible. kind of like that veteran lakers team that came together a couple of years ago (exception being they really had no previous ties together). i hope we would have better results. add those 3 + hudson, and whoever the 5th starter would be and that would be fun to watch.
Ryan C, I can understand sentimental, but isn’t that just clutching at straws.
Nice idea but neither Glavine nor Maddux are the pitchers they once were.
Jones: ?There were two chicks in the room messin? with each other.?
Prosecutor: ?What did you do then??
Jones: “Both of them, count it.?
That is sooooo damn funny. thanks sansho1.
From the Kurt Russell classic Used Cars
‘So, you’ve been letting your little head do the thinking for your big head?’ But Good GOD, Neagle! Barf city.
I don’t get it though. I remember that he and his wife were in SI swimsuit and she was hot. Someone must have poked is eyes out.
a rotation of smoltz, hudson, glavine, maddux, and sosa/hampton/whoever is not a poor rotation, sentimental value aside.
I would like to have Maddux still, just because I think he was the pitching coach while he was here.
Wouldn’t that rotation now cost like $30 million?
Rome Braves Baseball
First Pitch April 6, 2006, 7:00 pm
69 days 6 hours 26 minutes until First Pitch
I just saw this at RomeBraves.com and it made me very happy!
Thanks, second bass!
Every little bit of sunshine to brighten my dreary offseason days…
I think Braves Journal should buy the Braves. Mac, just cut TimeWarnerturnerAOLHBO a check.
Below link goes to an article which ranks the best and the worst executives in the four major sports:
http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/5276170
Jenny, you’re right. No way we could ever sustain that rotation on our current payroll. Not unless we jettison the Jones boys …..
tom and greg might swallow their pride and sign for cheap just to finish their career with an A on their hats. anywho, just a dreamer. if you havent noticed, i like to live in a dream world with my fantasy trades, glorious lineups, and an unlimited supply of any and everything (including dollar bills). but, on the contrary, people do re-sign with their former teams to retire, and often do with a significant pay cut.
Per Rotoworld, Arthur Rhodes is in Philly for a physical. Which makes me think they are trading Michaels. Which makes me think the Crisp trade may be going through.
I know the Phillies are supposedly desperate for a setup man, but why are they trading a solid OF for a 36-year-old reliever? Seems overly desperate to me.
Ryan C ….. I’d love to see it.
Speaking of dreams try this: Maddux starts game 7 of the 2007 world series for the braves; Galvine in in the 6th for a spot of long releif; smoltz closes it down ….. how cool would that be?
What the hell are the Phillies doing? A two horse race in the East this year ….
The Phillies need starters and are going to come up about 4 short in that catagory. Smoltz is never going to close again and if he can make two playoff starts per round, we may win it all.
Smitty – talking about dreams here. Smoltz wins game 2 & 6 …. why not have him close game 7!! He would do with the series on the line (and Reitsma warming up in the pen!)
I would rather he win Games one and five, but as long as we win, it is you dream.