Three-team division

ESPN.com – MLB – Red Sox agree to deal for Beckett, Lowell

The Marlins seem to be giving up, at least for the next couple of years, getting overrated infield prospect Hanley “Betemit Jr.” Ramirez and a pitching prospect, Anibal Sanchez. Next up, they’ll try to ditch Delgado, plus Pierre and Castillo. Dontrelle and Cabrera are going to look pretty lonely soon.

Since the Nationals are still the Expos, it’s us, the Mets, and the Phillies. The media will pick the Mets to win the division next year; the sabermetrics guys will pick the Phillies. You know what happens next.

52 thoughts on “Three-team division”

  1. You know Rotoworld actually said that the Marlins got the better of the trade. Can you believe that?!

  2. Overated Red Sox Prospect Syndrome (ORPS). Symptoms are making Peter Gammons gush at the mouth and inability to put up a .400 slugging percentage in AA. Comparing Ramirez to Betemit is an insult to Betemit.

  3. All Red Sox’s prospect is overrated, pretty similar to how the Yankees hyping up their prospects. I think Hanley Ramirez will be another Freddy SŠnchez.

    All these for Lowell and Beckett…this is a good trade for the Sox.

  4. Anibal the Cannibal did have a pretty good season last year, although he only has a handful of innings above A ball. Similar to where Kyle Davies was at this point in time last year, but older.

    I hope Hanley Ramirez sucks, because I’m really tired of hearing about how great he’s going to be. Of course, now that he’s a Marlins prospect, he’ll never be heard from again.

  5. boston did a wonderful job getting lowell who could rebound from a bad season with the green monster, ramirez was behind rentaria anyway.

  6. That said, the Marlins are on a good start to having a very young team with lots of potential. Based on what they have now,

    1B Delgado
    2B Castillo
    3B Cabrera
    SS Hanley Ramirez
    CF Pierre
    RF Hermida
    LF Willingham
    C Lo Duca

    SP Willis
    SP Scott Olsen
    SP Jason Vargas
    SP Anibal Sanchez
    SP Logan Kensing

    Miscellaneous bullpen.

    It’s not a great team, but it’s young and with good prospects. I’d rather have that roster than the 2006 Pittsburgh Pirates, that’s for sure.

    The return on Delgado, Castillo, and Pierre will likely make the team even younger.

  7. I think the Marlins are looking to trade LoDuca away as well. The lack of a new stadium and Wayne Huizenga are killing this franchise.

  8. Trade away those three guys and they’ll be too young. There are limits to what a team that young can achieve. And if Willis doesn’t give them 230 innings they might have the worst non-Reds/Rockies staff in the league.

  9. From Jayson Stark’s Rumblings and Grumblings on espn.com:

    Billy Wagner Rumblings
    The best closer on the market, Billy Wagner, keeps saying his decision on where to play won’t be all about money. Which makes the entrance of the Braves into the Wagner derby a potentially uncomfortable development for both the Mets and Phillies.
    “I want to go with the team where I think I’d be the most comfortable and a team that has a chance to win,” Wagner told Rumblings. “And Atlanta always has a chance to win.”

    The Red Sox also are nibbling on Wagner. But though Wagner says the right things about the Sox, there have been indications from people who know him that Boston’s offseason turmoil has made him nervous about committing there.

    On the other hand … as sincere as Wagner might be when he says this is about more than money, there will be serious pressure for him to take a four-year offer from the Mets, even if he might prefer to stay in Philadelphia or go to some team like the Braves.
    “I don’t think there’s any question,” says an official of one team that’s closer-shopping, “that the union would like him to set the market, and then everyone else can fall in line after he signs.”

  10. Poor Robert “Sideway Hat” Andino.

    Don’t know whether to feel sorry for the Marlins or shake my head at the current state of the game.

    I’ve seen all the huzzah about Ramirez, but I’ve never paid that much attention to him. But he’s the SS now.

    Marlins have some interesting puzzle pieces to peddle. Delgado is pure stud and LoDuca is a nice player if on the right team.

    But solid trade for the Sox. Lowell could rebound and I think he’s probably better in that ballpark than Mueller. And Beckett is tough as long as he’s healthy.

  11. It’s pretty clear the Marlins are just putting pieces up on a block and seeing who the highest bidder is. Of course the Sox got a steal here in terms of talent. They were willing to take the Lowell contract and give up more prospects than anyone else for Beckett. There aren’t that many teams out there that can afford the Lowell contract, and the Yanks just can’t match the Sox farm system.

  12. I don’t understand why they didn’t make the Texas trade. It looks better to me than this one.

    Blalock and a top prospect. Don’t understand it.

    Remember when, years ago it seems, everyone would get excited about the major league talent that came in a deal. And a couple of seasons later you might see a guy come up in spring training. Announcers would say this is the guy they got for Larry Anderson a couple of years ago, may be it is time they start reaping the dividends of that trade?

    Now we get a bunch of yo-yos yammering away about this prospect and that prospect being the second coming of player A or player B. More than half the guys don’t workout. I noticed the last vestiage of the Aramis Ramirez trade, “can’t miss” Bobby Hill was designated for assignment and shipped to San Diego today for a bag of last seasons peanuts. The pendulum has swung too far the other way. NOBODY looks at what this does at the major leage level.

    The Red Sox have just added another good cog to their RF, 2B, 3B, 1B assortment of talent and a #2 starter. Hell of sorry trade by the Marlins, IMO.

  13. Is it me or does it just seem like there’s a conspiracy by MLB to get the Red Sox and Yankees Major League talent for marginal Minor League prospects?(except maybe the A-Rod for Soriano deal–but come on, it’s A-Rod.) I would add the Mets but they suck and anybody they trade for (or sign as FA) turns out to be a bust.

  14. By the way, who actually negotiated this deal? Theo Epstein’s mom?
    Larry “the Lip” Luccino?

  15. The conspiracy theory aspect is that John Henry used to own the Marlins and manipulated the situation there to get Loria in when he bailed on the Expos. That whole situation has always stunk. And if baseball ever lost its antitrust exemption some enterprising Florida US Attorney could have a lot of fun with the situation.

    But I’m guessing that the Red Sox were the only team to offer to pick up all of Lowell’s contract.

  16. And if baseball ever lost its antitrust exemption some enterprising Florida US Attorney could have a lot of fun with the situation.

    Fred Levin, to the rescue! (‘To the money’ is more accurate I suppose).

    As far as talent going to the yankees and redsox, it’s all about the money. Conspiracy has nothing to do with it, they are the ones that can afford to take the contracts. Don’t like it? Blame the union, it’s their meddling that’s made it such a ridiculously lopsided sellers market (sellers being the agents, of course).

  17. I don’t understand why they didn’t make the Texas trade. It looks better to me than this one.

    Blalock and a top prospect. Don’t understand it.

    As someone mentioned in the other thread, Blalock’s home/away splits are ridiculous. He’s helped a ton by his park. Take him out of Arlington, and he’s simply not very good.

    The Marlins probably thought the prospects the Sox offered were better than what the Rangers offered, reportedly one of two “ace” pitching prospects. Or there could be other things about the Rangers deal we don’t know, like, as Mac mentioned, an unwillingness of the Rangers to assume the entire Lowell contract.

    Everytime I type Blalock’s name, I have to go back and delete a “y”. I miss Mookie.

  18. The Mets have average starting pitching at best outside of Pedro who is due a break down. They have no bullpen. A leadoff guys who doesn’t walk. THey really have one great hitter and an over priced .260 hitter in center.

    The Phillies have 0 pitching. Three good hitters, a head case in left. No center fielder.

    How can anyone pick against us? Oh well, I hope they do!

  19. The Mets have really good pitching, though you’re right about the overpriced .260 hitter in center. They generally have no bats outside Wright and Floyd, if he stays healthy. That Cameron trade was a huge error. Now they need two more good bats to contend instead of just one. They’d better hope Diaz is worth the space they made for him.

    Myers looks like a legit middle-of-the-rotation starter, so I’ll give the Phillies that. They have more than three good hitters, too, although their two best can only play one position and have to split time if they can’t swing a trade.

    Both look pretty dangerous, actually. I do, however, love the fact the Fish have taken themselves out of it.

  20. AAR, the deal was negotiated by Jed Hoyer and Bill Lajoie. And depending on how overhyped Hanley Ramirez is (probably some, but not horribly), it was a steal. I don’t know what the Marlins were thinking.

    Mac, I’ve been reading Sons of Sam Horn, and decided that you need connections! When Epstein resigned, they started a thread called “12 Questions for JohnWHenry,” since he, along with Curt Schilling and Theo Epstein (although I doubt he’ll ever show up again) are members. Well, the thread is 3 weeks old and tonight the principal owner himself popped up and started answering questions. It was really weird. Relevant excerpts? Lucchino appears to have him by the balls, the Colorado mess was actually nixed by him, and Epstein often seemed ambivalent about staying throughout the negotiation process. I couldn’t believe the owner would actually come on a message board and answer fan questions. They had something similar on Orioles Hangout where the fans got to interview Mike Flanagan indirectly.

    We need connections on here!

  21. Marlins have a lot of Baby Fish. LOL!!!! Who knows?

    ” put a horse in a stable ” or ” One man sows and another man reaps.”
    I think Tom Hicks is stingy with Danks. Anyway I’m happy Hanky Blalock is a Rangers.
    I’m sorry for Mr. Daniels , I have known Jon Daniels is nothing but Hicks’ puppet since he became a GM after much meandering.
    If Tom Hicks is our owner…. , The mere thought of it makes me shudder, even if I have a foggy idea about baseball.I know this is just a mishmash of vague thoughs

  22. The problem with Beckett going to Texas is that they are limited by payroll. Soriano and now Texeira are making big dollars, Lowell costs $8M for three more and Beckett has to be due for a raise at some point. Once you add all this up, only a team like the Red Sox who could eat a contract were a feasible option.

    The Fishies put themselves in this spot though. Overpaying for Delgado and Lowell’s suckage forced them to make a move. This really isn’t much different from the Braves and the Millwood/Estrada saga. What sucks for them is that when Delgado declines they’ll have to do the same thing again.

    I have a feeling Hanley is going to be pressed into starting at shortstop for the Fish this year.

    Jenny I live in Boston. SOSH shows why the Red Sox are such a financial giant. Sometimes it’s easier for Schilling, Henry, whoever to answer questions there rather than EEI or other media because by going straight to the hardcore supporters you’re more likely to get them on your side. (Not that Schilling did this, he’s just legitimately a cool guy). You HAVE to have hardcore fan support for your moves here or else the team will suffer. Other sports/cities don’t have this problem and unless you live here it’s hard to understand.

  23. I’ve been thinking about something lately and any responses would be great. We are always looking at players receiving substantial pay raises, but now it looks as if most organizations are trying to reduce their payroll.

    Lets say 5 years down the road all of our elite players are on the trading block, but with most teams trying to reduce their payroll what will happen w/ these guys. More and more players right now are given outrageous salaries that can only be picked up by certain organizations.

    What will happen to these players when teams arent willing to pick up their contracts and/or options?

  24. Don’t know why you’re so down on the Nats, other than a chance to use your favorite nickname. They unloaded the Human Out and Ryan Zimmerman is going to be real good real fast. Guzman can’t possibly suck so bad as last year. Vidro and Wilkerson should be healthier. Rotation is decent, other than the fact that they trade away anyone who doesn’t get along with Frank. They need a masher in left and a top starter and they’re a real contender. When the ownership comes in, they’re going to have lots of green to spread around. As is, they will be around for the wild card chase.

  25. Mac, I think the Fish as currently constructed are “too young.” Sans Delgado, Castillo, and Pierre, and they would struggle to win the International League playoffs. That said, if they get good prospects for all of those guys, they could have a very good team in 2008.

  26. I don’t see it, Bledsoe. The Natspos overperformed last year; they finished .500 and gave up more runs than they scored. They only have two really good hitters and Zimmerman is a kid, really. Johnson is the only guy on that team who gets on base.

  27. The Nats will likely be around .500 this year. They still don’t have a good offense, but they have some hitters – Guillen, Zim, Nick the Stick, Wilkerson, and Vidro will likely all be above-average for their position including offense and defense. Their rotation is still pretty good (although they have to replace Loaiza’s innings), and their bullpen will still be very good. A mediocre offense with pretty good pitching in a pitcher’s ballpark is usually a solid bet to win 80 games. I don’t think they’ll win the division, though.

  28. I agree they overperformed. I just think that they will be better next year than last and they played .500, albeit they had a lot of luck.

  29. Myers looks like a legit middle-of-the-rotation starter, so I’ll give the Phillies that. They have more than three good hitters, too, although their two best can only play one position and have to split time if they can’t swing a trade.

    The Phillies’ best two hitters are Bobby Abreu and Chase Utley, not Jim Thome and Ryan Howard.

  30. From Jayson Stark’s Rumblings column:

    The Braves are among the teams interested in Reggie Sanders — who passed through Atlanta five years and four teams ago. But Sanders’ preference for a two-year deal, when he’s about to turn 38, is scaring off several otherwise-interested teams.

    Don’t they know what happened last time he was in town?? Please, NO Reggie Return!!

  31. Which makes the entrance of the Braves into the Wagner derby a potentially uncomfortable development for both the Mets and Phillies.
    “I want to go with the team where I think I’d be the most comfortable and a team that has a chance to win,” Wagner told Rumblings. “And Atlanta always has a chance to win.”

    Wow I hope we don’t sign Billy Wagner. What a mistake that would be. Of course that would look like genius compared to signing Reggie Sanders.

    The Marlins cycle of championship-purge-championship-purge seems to be working, no need to stop now.

  32. I actually like Reggie and he is another power-speed guy that has aged well but the possible back injury sustained in the playoffs does scare me. Plus I want to see Langer/KJ platoon get another shot

  33. I think the Nats overperformed as well, but they do have a heckuva a bullpen.

    I totally missed the Castilla deal. He’s gonna stink in the Death Valley that is Petco.

    I’m also with Smitty on the Mets’ pitching. I’m not that much of a DIPS adherent, but it seems that outside of Pedro, that rotation was a lot of baler wire and key pitches in tough situations. Somehow, I don’t trust Benson, Trachsel, and Zambrano to keep up the good work.

  34. Oh, and props to Lajoie. Great baseball guy. If he were younger and more hip, my guess is he could be the darling of Red Sox Nation.

  35. I like Reggie too, but he’s getting on in years, and he made too many U-turns at the plate when he was with Atlanta the last time. Pass.

  36. rumor is that the Yankees want Andruw. They are wanting Brian Giles to come and play center until Andruw becomes available. How many years does Andruw have left on his contract. Wouldn’t it make sense to renegotiate his contract before he becomes a free agent?

  37. Mets said to have offered Wagner

    3/30 w/ a 4th year option for $11 million

    I guess we can take ourselves out of this bidding war!

  38. I know the Padres offered Hoffman 2/10mil, but how much is this guy really worth. He is as good as Wagner isnt he?

  39. Remember when the new york press was trading kevin brown for andruw last offseason because the braves were so burdened by andru’s contract? that was awesome.

    i hate the new york press.

  40. If the Marlins move to Portland (or Vegas), I wonder if MLB will move Cincy or the Pirates to the East.

  41. And speaking of Furcal..from the Daily Herald….

    Furcalís decision could come down to more than money. Furcal apparently likes playing for Atlanta manager Bobby Cox, and if a Cubs offer doesnít blow the Braves completely out of the water, thereís a chance Furcal could remain in Atlanta.

  42. Since the Cubs a busy locking up cornerstones like Neifi Perez and Scott Eyre, I guess there is a chance they won’t have enough left to lavish on Raffy.

  43. Mac you made a good point of Cabrera and Willis being lonely in Fla. I realize Cabrera is very young and still cheap but I wonder what it would take for the Marlins to consider trading him (he had a run in with Fla. management last year). He will likely become to expensive for the Marlins in the next couple of years. I believe I would give up Marte, Davies, any other pitching prospect or even Salty (instead of the prospect) if we could sign him to a long term deal.

  44. Delgado to Mets according to ESPN, so much for not trading within the division. Jeff Lurie=bag of scum.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *