Atlanta Braves : Official Info : Press Release
Roger McDowell, aka the Second Spitter, is the new pitching coach, and not someone from within the organization. I’m not sure what he brings to the table, but he must have impressed Schuerholz and Cox.
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Here‘s a discussion on him from a Mariners blog from about three days ago. (He was one of two candidates for that gig.) Some highlights:
and
The guys make a point. The AAAA guys were where Mazzone was always strongest.
I don’t see a very strong point there. I don’t think you can take one year of player performance, especially at what the author admits is an extremly friendly hitters park, to determine what skills a pitching coach has. Maybe no one there is league average because they have shitty scouts? Besides, the Braves have an organizational wide philosophy that McDowell is no doubt going to be expected to adopt. The skills we need from our major league pitching coach are basically that of a salesman. He needs to sell the Braves philosophy to those pitchers that may not be interested in buying it. JS and Bobby know this organization and who can best fit for it. The last thing I’m going to do is sit here and question their coaching choices, not with their record of success.
Well, the decision has been made, so I would prefer to trust my eyes first before coming to any conclusion. I just don’t think it’s fair to evaluate a coach’s performance based on one year of result at the Dodgers’ AAA team.
Besides, Edwin Jackson has been completely messed up by the Dodgers front office and has not progressed much the past few years, and do you honestly think Leo can make a new career out of Scott Erickson, Ryan Rupe and Pat Mahomes? Let’s just sit back and watch, and at least give a chance to McDowell to show his skill before we come to any conclusion. I think that’s fair to the guy who is completely new to the organization.
…still, this does not keep me from saying this decision is a … complete surprise…
Maybe he can get the splitter back and be the 5th starter
If anything this guy could bring some spunk and attitude.
and he could fine tune our relievers.
He was a pretty good reliever, we can use some of that too!
Yes, if there is anything I like about McDowell, it’s his attitude and competitiveness.
Wasn’t McDowell the guy who spit on Kramer from behind the grassy knoll?
Yes, the Second Spitter, as I said.
mcdowell seems as far away from leo as possible. this is weird. i mean, this is the guy who always wore the outrageous wigs while pitching in mtv softball games, and he’s replacing leo mazzone. i find it hilarious.
Total surprise but very exciting nevertheless. The key is that he sold himself to JS and Bobby and he certainly will continue the Braves methodology. It may also be a boost to having someone younger for the kids to relate to. Finally, I remember Roger as someone with a lot of spunk and motivational attitude.
Yeah, I don’t think I could have been more surprised by this choice. Time will tell if it’s a good one, but I, like most here, tend to trust JS and Bobby.
Who knows how this will pan out, but I think this is exciting for Braves fans. If he can bring a little backbone to the Braves bullpen while maintaining the type of control that Mazzone preached about, he might be an asset to the organization for many years to come.
He was a carrer .222 hitter and played three times in the outfield.
He’s younger than Julio. Speaking of whom, I hope he comes back.
Wow, I am just blown away by this. From Leo to the guy that pitched in a bunch of MTV Rock N’ Jock Softball games…
Camp Roger anyone?
For those wanting an explanation of “The Second Spitter,” here’s the link. You will have to scroll down a bit, however.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page3/story?page=katcher/sports_seinfeld
McDowell did one thing very well as a pither: kept the ball in the park. The Braves seem to be fond of the extreme groundball pitcher. I suspect that’s what he wants them to work on. I wonder if the Braves might be considering giving Kolb one more chance. I seriously doubt it, but Kolb, when he pitched well in his career, was the same type of pitcher.
You know what JC, I am thinking about the same thing with you on Kolb today. I am afraid the Braves will take a chance on Kolb again to see if he works well under McDowell. It’s obvious that Kolb and Leo don’t work well together. We will see, but the financial commitment on Kolb may prevent him from staying. No matter who is the new pitching coach, I really don’t want to live through another year of Kolb…unless he starts throwing something other than fastballs.
I feel like I should be lc to post next, but I will anyhow. I think the antagonism that fans feel toward Kolb makes it pretty impossible for him to come back. Its obvious that by now he has a pretty large mental block to overcome when pitching in Atlanta. Just don’t see it happening.
I saw speculation in another forum that because of his success with the sinker, he might have been brought in to help Hudson and Hampton. *shrug*
I don’t see any way in hell that Kolb gets another chance.
In 1986 McDowell went 14-9 with 22 saves splitting saves with Jesse Orosco who was 8-6 with 21 saves. These are lines you just don’t see anymore with relievers. Reminded me just how different relief pitching is today than 20 years ago.
Hopefully McDowell, will teach the Braves pitchers how to throw the spitter, then we can say THAT WAS SOME MAGIC LOOGIE!!
This seems like a starnge hire to me. I don’t really see the connection and just seems sort of random?
I put very little stock in PCL stats. The whole league is very hitter-centric. Plus, as someone mentioned above, Jackson has been on the fast track and yo-yoed around by the organization, so some sort of blip isn’t totally unexpected.
It’s really hard to get a read on a AAA pitching coach’s ability from his team’s performance. Most AAA pitching staffs are full of “11th guy” and “spot starter” fodder and if anything, the coach at that level is probably trying to do a little tweaking to get a guy to be able to contribute as opposed to developing a youngster to dominate. Tough job.
If JS, BC, and co. are satisfied, I’ll trust them. As long as Kolb doesn’t come back, I’m fine with this move. I always liked McDowell as a pitcher. Competitive guy.
It should be noted that McDowell appeared for the Mets in the infamous Rick Camp Game on July 4, 1985 — quite possibly the nuttiest game in baseball history. Maybe that’s what turned him into a flake. I have no idea what to conclude about his coaching career to this point, so I guess we’ll just have to see.
I didn’t realize McDowell was considered to be such a character. I can dig it, though. Obviously, results come first, but I’ve always found it more fun to root for a team that has at least a few “personalities”. The Braves now have all of two — McDowell and Giles. Now if we would just hire Rickey Henderson to coach first base, we’ll be good to go….
I think Andruw’s a character.
How about Smoltz?
McDowell pitched for the Orioles in 1996, which is recent enough that I was old enough to remember him. That was the Jeffrey Maier year. So why don’t I recognize that name?
At the end of the article on the Braves site, it mentions that he came out for one game with his pants on his head and his spikes on his hands. I wonder what Bobby would think?
Jenny, In answer to your earlier question, I’m Alex Remington.
And being a goofball is great and all–maybe it’ll even loosen up the clubhouse–but I hope that McDowell will progress from being “one of the true up-and-coming teachers of the game” (which is either a genuine compliment or a backhanded compliment, because it doesn’t say whether he’s actually good) to one of the better teachers of the game.
Anyone think we should still hang onto Jorge Sosa? Is there any possible chance lightning could strike twice now that Leo’s gone? Or will he go the way of Jaret Wright and John Burkett and suck so atrociously that we’ll wonder how he ever fooled us into thinking he was good?
I think Sosa’s case is different. Sosa has no health concern like Wright and he is not a veteran waiting to retire like Burkett. Sosa’s stuff is real and legit. While I know there are people wanting to trade Sosa when his value is high, I would like to see the Braves to hang on to Sosa.
I don’t like the move and what is JS & BC is thinking of. There are lots of other pitching
coaches around. Maybe I am wrong, but we have to wait and see him in spring training. Hey guys,
this is an unusual decision by our Braves. I am still pulling my hair.
We are about to find out if the genius behind the Braves pitcher is Cox getting the most out of them as manager or Leo the savant, Captain Karma, the oracle of “how to pitch”.
McDowell couldn’t be further from Leo in style or disposition. I eargerly await the results of the O’s and Braves pitching next year.
AAR, I friended you, so don’t think it’s some random weirdo! This one guy has friended me like 8 times and I have no idea who he is except that he has the same last name. Maybe he’s forming a club, but I’ve rejected him all 8 times. I hope he stops.
I’ll reserve judgment on McDowell since I don’t know anything about him but it does seem odd and out of character for the team.
Re: Sosa
Sosa has always been a live arm and proves why every team tries to stock up on these type of guys whenever they get the chance. His problems in Tampa stemmed from his control. His pitches were fantastic but he had no idea where they were going. Think Matt Clement before he got his shit together in Chicago. He was on 3-4 teams who tried, unsuccessfully, to harness his ability before he finaly figured it out.
You have to worry about his returning to suckage, but bringing him back for next year, and assuming he doesn’t suck locking him up for 2-3 more, is a no-brainer.
Paul DePodesta is out in LA. Looks like Money Ball fails with lots of money backing it.
fails? he was there two years and won the division one of those years. i don’t think the dodgers are even in bad shape right now.
This seems almost like Cox and Schuerholz were fed up with the praise of Leo and thought “we’ll show ’em, we’ll win the division with Roger McDowell as our pitching coach. Then people will know who runs the Braves!”
I think keeping most of the guys in the system where they were is a good idea. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
The Dodgers owner is a huge jerk. DePodesta found out he was fired from a reporter. Jeez, Frank McCourt, act like a man, will you? You sack a guy and then are too cowardly to tell him to his face. Sounds like McCourt wasn’t confident in his decision and was just caving into media pressure. DePodesta didn’t get half the chance he deserved; 21 months for a process that should take years? Come on. The JD Drew contract was dumb, yes, but Theo Epstein has RentAError (Sox fan nickname, not mine) and Byung Hyun Kim on his resume. He also has a World Series ring. The Dodgers are a mess.
Epstein also would have gotten Contreras (this is the first year he’s done anything positive) and Pavano if he wasn’t outbid. I’m not that impressed with Theo.
Well, then add Contreras and Pavano to the list with Renteria and BH Kim. Just remember to balance that out with Ortiz, Mueller, Millar, Schilling, Roberts, Cabrera, Mientkiewicz, Foulke, Papelbon, et al.
A’s are listening to offers for Barry Zito. Any interest? It would eliminate the “need” for HoRam…
I’d love for the Braves to get their hands on Zito. He could hit the bong in the clubhouse with McDowell and talk about mechanics.
Zito is a possibility, though he may end up costing too much. I think he’s due a better year with a change of scenery and some hitters that haven’t seen his curve too often. Kelly Johnson would probably be part of any deal with the A’s; don’t know who else would interest them though.
Our New Pitching Coach…
http://rndng3rd.com/NYMHall/players/M/Rogmcd.jpg
Question…
What are those things in his pants? squirt guns?
I’m picturing him pulling on out of his “holster” and spraying Bobby from time-to-time in the dugout.
Was he the McDowell with the rock band?
Or was that “Oddibe McDowell?”
Theo didnt get Papelbon…and im surprised youre counting Minky as a positive
If redsox.com is correct, Papelbon was drafted in June 2003. Theo became GM in November 2002. So yes, Theo did get Papelbon.
Mientkiewicz is a positive because he was a defensive upgrade and he was part of the deal that sent Garciaparra packing.
Cee, that was “Black Jack” McDowell, the White Sox Cy Young Award winner. I think that was in 1993. He also does a column for Yahoo! Sports, though he may have been replaced by Ryne Sandberg.
Jack McDowell’s band is called Stickfigure, by the way.
“We Suck” would have been better. I can’t think of a jock band (Pulley) or a celeb band (10,000 Feet of Grunt, Dogstar) for that matter that hasn’t. Can anyone think of a decent one?
The Blues Brothers?
Tenacious D has a decent fan base. I’ve never heard them outside that brief bit in High Fidelity, so I can’t vouch, though.
Tenacious D doesn’t suck, but probably comes under the same category as Spinal Tap, whatever category that is.
The Beach Boys had begun to suck years before but really hit bottom when they started letting John Stamos hang around.
Perhaps one reason they’re drawing on this choice for a pitching coach is that he was a very good reliever, and relief pitching has been bad for us the past few years.
Good news Tennessee fans! Randy Sanders maybe on his way out. Now if the new guy could bring a QB with him…
http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051031/SPORTS0601/510310376/1035
Remember all the times they (Beach Boys) would show up on Full House? All the family acted suprised, but they showed up once a season and always acted like they had never met any of these people.
Well, you have to remember that they all did a lot of drugs in the sixties. (The Beach Boys, not the Full House cast.)
I’m wondering if the Braves are going to keep Furcal and trade Giles. Giles is the more replaceable of the 2 with Orr and Betemit, Prado in the minors. He hasn’t produced in the post season, is allegedly unhappy, and there is a shortage of second basemen in the free agent market this year. He could command some trade value this year and the savings could go towards Furcal playing for a few more years.
I don’t understand why you would hire the first guy you interview and not talk to anyone else. What other business would that happen in? I understand they were afraid they would lose McDowell, but I still think it’s better practice to survey the field. This reminds me alarmingly of the way the Orioles hired Lee Mazilli–they were blown away with his interview and essentially forgot everyone else. Certainly, JS and BC know more about this than I do, but I’m a little skeptical about this process.
Jeez, Frank McCourt, act like a man, will you? You sack a guy and then are too cowardly to tell him to his face.
What comes around goes around. DePo fired Jim Tracy over the phone. He wouldn’t even meet with Dodger legend Orel Hershiser in person, interviewing him over the phone. Bad people skills doomed Depo, I find it fitting that he was fired by McCourt using poor people skills.
The Dodgers are a mess.
Here we agree. DePo was never going to work here in LA, but the real cause of the problem is McCourt and he’s still here. I don’t think Pat Gillick and Bobby Valentine are going to fix the situation.
Oh, and no opinion on the McDowell hiring. If Bobby and JS think he’ll work then that’s good enough for me. He should bring some levity to the clubhouse if nothing else.
I hope somebody hires Bobby Valentine. I could never hate that guy after the disguise in the dugout routine.
I dont think I could agree with you about trading Giles….the guy is a spark plug. You may be able to replace him with comparable talent, but I dont think you could replace his presence. Furcal, however, I think could be replaced. Do I think we could get another short-stop to put up numbers like his? No….BUT, his stats are replacable with either one FA, or maybe a few plus Betemit…..
How is Giles unhappy? Why? I haven’t heard this before. Is this widely known?
I would also like to keep Giles but the Braves payroll may preclude them from keeping both Giles and Furcal. Giles has trade value now. a #2 hitter is easier to mold than a lead-off hitter who is a danger on the path. All hearsay but, Giles has stated he wants to play with his brother telling the San Diego press that over last winter. Someone on a previous line stated when he asked Marcus some questions that he appeared angry at the club for not spending the money. I hope he wants to stay but if he is leaving get some value for him.
It wasn’t just Brian talking to the SD press, it was also Bruce Bochy. It’s been reported everywhere, so I think it’s safe to assume it’s true. Maybe Marcus feels that if the owners weren’t such tightwads we could have afforded some decent bullpen help this year (read: no KolBB) or something? I don’t think it’s really an issue, but I’ve believed for some time that he will wind up back in California, probably sooner rather than later. His family is there and so is his wife’s. Staying in Atlanta for 15 years makes little sense, and Brian sure as heck isn’t getting any younger.
But I don’t see Marcus being traded to keep Furcal. Not unless he pulls a Manny.
I’ve seen speculation elsewhere about trading Giles; however, one thing to consider is that Marcus is a better hitter than Furcal. He typically posts an OPS at least 50 points higher, and if that he has a higher OBP every year.
Furcal steals more bases, and arguably has more defensive value. Although, I don’t know that we have any evidence that Furcal + Betemit (out of position) is defensively better than Betemit (in position) + Giles. furcal also is more durable, though Giles’ injuries have generally been fairly freakish injuries.