Edgar, Edgar, Edgar…

2005 Double play rates for batters

We had a conversation in comments this offseason about the comparison of Rafael Furcal to Edgar Renteria; one thing I said was that Furcal was actually a better hitter because while their percentages were equal he rarely hit into double plays while Renteria hits into a whole bunch.

Anyway, so far this year Renteria has the worst double play rate in the American League.

7 thoughts on “Edgar, Edgar, Edgar…”

  1. I think Renteria made 14 outs in his first 9 ABs of the year or something absurd like that.

  2. I think that’s a valid point to make. You have to go back to 2001-02 to find a time when Renteria was really outhitting Furcal.

    Although it’s difficult to make the case that either of them are much better than average right now, Furcal has outhit Renteria the last year or two. At any rate, there are probably a lot of people that think Renteria’s a much better hitter, which just isn’t true.

  3. Actually, Renteria outhit just about every shortstop in the majors in 2003 — excluding A-Rod, Nomar and maybe Tejada or Jeter. He was definitely the best in the NL.


    But he hasn’t been as good since as his reputation might indicate. Furcal’s almost certainly a better player now.

  4. ESPN’s up-to-date version of Runs Created suggests that Furcal was actually very slightly better in 2003. I know it seems silly looking at their regular numbers, until you realize that Renteria grounded into 21 DPs that year to Furcal’s 1. All those extra outs made a spectacular season into merely a great one, and Furcal’s was very, very slightly better (111.3 to 110.2).

    I suppose the main point has been made, though: Renteria is clearly overrated. This just accents Mac’s point that Renteria’s DPs really hurt his value.

  5. Not to be excessively argumentative, but Renteria usually hit fifth or sixth for the Cards that year, meaning he came up with men on base more often. Furcal was hitting after the pitcher and No. 8 guy (usually Vinny Castilla that year).

  6. Leadoff hitters don’t typically hit into a lot of double plays. I don’t think that makes Furcal all that spectacular.

  7. We’ve actually been through this before, guys. Renteria’s DP rate is high even for players hitting where he did. And this is a double play rate stat per opportunity. He’s grounded into 8 in 31 opportunities (runner at first, less than two out) which is ridiculously high. His counterpart in the Bronx, Jeter, has come up in 26 such opportunities and has just 3 GIDP. And Jeter’s around the average. Jorge Posada — a catcher! — has 1 GIDP in 30 opportunities.

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