After the start to a season that made 100 losses feel inevitable, some wins are more fun than others. This seemed like a loss before it started. Bartolo Colon for the Mets, but Ryan Weber for the Braves. Weber didn’t do anything to erase the fears as he gave up a 2-run homer to Asdrubel Cabrera in the second. Another homer, this time by Rene Rivera, made it 3-0, but the Braves came back as they have been able to do often in the second half of this year. Backup catcher Anthony Recker hit a screaming liner for an opposite field home run, and Matt Kemp then tied it up with a sac fly in the 8th.
But after Brandon Cunniff, inexplicably, started his second inning of work, the Braves made big plays. Kemp, in the bumbling, stumbling way that only he knows, robbed, it appears, Yoenis Cespedes of a home run, keeping a ball in play that seemed to be leaving the yard.
In the 9th, Jace Peterson led off with a single. After Dansby Swanson was knocked to the ground by a brush-back pitch, he hung in there for a sac bunt. Emilio Bonifacio, surprisingly, moved Peterson to third on a flare single to left, and our man Ender Inciarte tapped a grounder past the pitcher to score the go-ahead run. In the bottom of the 9th, Jim Johnson struggled. A single to Brandon Nimmo and Travis d’Arnaud brought Cespedes back to the plate. This time, he hit a ball that was undoubtedly destined to the leave the yard, but Inciarte pulled off a game-ending, home-run robbing catch that had shades of Otis Nixon’€™s Catch against the Pirates.
What a game!
Here’s the catch that you won’t want to miss:
http://m.braves.mlb.com/news/article/202671076/braves-inciarte-robs-yoenis-cespedes-for-win/
Bravo Bravos! Great catch, great game, great recap. Thanks, Rob.
Statcast says he went 104 feet to make the catch. Ya know, I’m not sure Mallex makes that catch.
Just watched that catch 3 times — that is right up there with Nixon’s catch, and the fact Inciarte is doing it at the end of a crappy season makes it all the more fun. Who would have thought that we were responsible for the Mets’ fall out of the wild card lead. Awwwwwwwwesome!
Fantastic catch…but Otis has it beat by a fair margin, I think.
Still exciting after all these years! Long run, full vertical leap, pretty decent margin of separation between ball and top of the fence. And super high stakes.
In its moment, I think Otis’s catch was a more breathtaking display of baseball skill. (And Andruw probably had a dozen plays or more with just as much of a no-way-in-hell quality about them.)
But The Catch That Swept the Mets is probably the best on-field moment the Braves have had in three years. It not only all but guaranteed that the Braves will avoid 100 losses and increased the possibility that the Mets could watch the playoffs on TV, it actually did something that I never thought was possible: it made these bums feel like a likeable baseball team.
Unbelievable. Go Braves.
Yep, was that ever fun…
Yes, as the Mets post-game crew mentioned, if the Mets miss the post-season by a game, that’s one that they’ll always remember… which is what makes it so great, of course.
Thanks, Ender.
Ender is rapidly becoming my Favorite Brave(Non-FF5 Division).
Somewhere Reed Johnson is jumping around like a little kid.
Hearing Skip Caray almost brings tears to my eyes.
After last night, I wouldn’t doubt it if we see Kemp in RF and Mallex in LF next year. I’m not sure it’s the right choice, but I don’t think the Braves are going to move Ender out of CF and Mallex isn’t going to play RF.
The way Ender has played CF, I don’t think you move him.
DeRo: Simba, get back in your cage.
This is such a different team than in April and May. Get us some pitching for next year, Coppy.
Too September to talk music? Some great stuff has found me lately:
-“I Told Everyone” (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ky6XKTfQfIw) has come on the radio a couple times. Dinosaur Jr, still cranking out the jams.
-Carly Rae Jepsen’s E-MO-TION, either the original album and the new b-sides release, is on just about every morning at one of the coffeeshops here. Pretty soon everyone’s foot starts tapping.
-That James Blake record. So many tight moments! There’s some of that tick-tick-tick drum machine stuff you get on a Future record, and then sometimes he just overwhelms the rest of a song with a loud, long synth note that could have been lifted from the Blade Runner soundtrack. I’m going to check him out next week.
Going to a Dawes show tonight in a venue that holds only 400 people. Not unhappy about that.
I never thought watching a 61 and 91 team could be so much fun. I’ve been on the fence all year about giving the job to Snitker after this year, but I’ve got to say that I’m on his side to get the job right now. I understand that the Braves’ hitting has been a lot better and some of it would have happened with or without him.
The thing I’m impressed with is how Snitker has taken a really bad group of starting pitchers after trades and injuries, and put together a decent patchwork rotation. Gant stunk it up in the rotation so he went to the bullpen and Weber took his place – with better results in both cases. He’s also found a good bullpen mix and has kept with it, without massively overworking them.
Over at TT we’re trying to brainstorm best catches in Turner Field history (has to happen at Turner, not just during its existence). Can you guys help out?
Feels so good!
Go Braves!
@17, my feeling is if Joe Maddon or someone equivalent wants to come manage the team, we thank Snit and send him back to AAA. Otherwise, Snit seems fine. He’s done a good job this year, the players seem to like him and play hard for him.
Guys, hot take time: I think we won the Shelby Miller trade.
Pretty sure, anyway.
I think that’s in the top 5 greatest catches I’ve ever seen. Certainly the “clutchiest” great catch I can ever remember.
I think the catch to save Mark Beurhle’s perfecto might beat it for ‘clutchiness’ as well as Otis’ grab, but it’s up there.
I cannot recall such a catch end made to end a game, certainly not when if not made, it would’ve caused the opponent to have a walk-off win. He truly snatched a win from the jaws of defeat.
The Otis catch was in the top of the inning and didn’t end the inning. It probably did save the game, however, and it extended a 13-game win streak, so it was more important.
ryan c.
Andruw Jones “Spiderman.” The single most amazing I have ever seen.
Andrellton did a couple of “back to the infield, over the shoulder” catches that were amazing.
Coppy and the Other Johns may know what they’re doing after all. A couple of off season pitching surprises is what I want for Christmas.
“Spiderman” wins in quality, but Ender’s for “clutchness” is up there. I can’t think of one outside of Otis’ (which was at Fulton) that was more clutch at Turner.
Just this year, Ender has made three world-beaters:
I want a Tim Hudson deal. A flash-in-the-pan, a high-end pitching prospect, and a reliever for a top-60 starting pitcher. That would be quite a Christmas present.
That was fun… I went two nights ago, sitting in center field with a high school alumni group honoring Gordon Beckham (he was incredibly nice to let a bunch of kids come down to watch batting practice and get autographs and pictures). If I’d been there last night instead, I’d have missed the catch live because that part of the field is out of the fans’ view.
Surely Jason Heyward makes the Turner Field highlight reel… Can’t think of the exact moment, though…
IIRC, Jason made a home-run-robbing catch in the infield fly game. But it was obviously overshadowed. Also, @24, Jason ended a game at Citi with a walk-off preventing diving catch in center. It wasn’t over the wall, but he covered like half the outfield and laid out for the ball in the left center gap: http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/6479266/v29041345/atlnym-heyward-ends-the-game-with-terrific-catch
Ok, found that Heyward catch from the 2012 WC game. Miss ya, J-hey.
http://m.mlb.com/atl/video/topic/0/v25334959/nl-wc-heyward-robs-molina-with-an-incredible-catch/?c_id=atl
I’ve lost my Jason Heyward totem. He was never Andruw or Murph with glove or bat, and I’ll take Ender over what JayHey was at his best or is now. Potential’s great. Less talent but more consistent production is better. I’m sorry, but that’s the truth of it through my eyes.
@31 I don’t disagree, but keep in mind one year of J-hey begat Shelby Miller that begat Ender and Darby. That is a nice, ‘sting-easing’ balm if ever there was.
That was the reference for Edward’s comment about Reid Johnson. Johnson was the left fielder for Heyward’s Citi Field catch.
That Heyward WC game catch is definitely up there. That was a huge, huge play. With the sun too. What a defender.
So there are GM’s out there that believe Ender is a 4th OF’r. Haha, yeah ok.
Guys, don’t get me wrong, I think trading Heyward was the right call and we did really well by that transaction. I just miss the guy.
heyman
Ender Inciarte is a winning player. I know of a team or two that think he’s a 4th OF. Those teams are crazy.
I know it’s not very sabermetrical, but I really like the new buzz word, “winning” player. It gets away from “he’s an ‘X’ WAR player” or “he’s ‘elite'” or “he’s ‘an All-Star'” or whatever. At the end of the day, if you have a ton of players like Ender Inciarte, Dansby Swanson, Freddie Freeman, etc., you’d win a lot of baseball games. I’m sorry for calling Inciarte “Incifarte”. I take it all back, and I lay myself before the mercy of the court.
That Willie Harris catch was pretty big, wasn’t it? Didn’t it end the game?
I couldn’t find video, but here’s a link. Turns out the catch was made against the Mets.
http://blackathlete.net/artman2/publish-/BASN_BLACKBOX_54/What_A_Catch_Willie_Harris_Earns_His_Box.shtml
Willie Harris’ catch vs. the Mets is at the top of the reel.
I remember having Willie’s catch as my background picture on my computer back then. That catch, I think, was not a home run rob. It looks like he just made a leaping catch on a ball not going over the wall.
@39 and 40
Great memory, but not at Turner.
That catch had the original Alex R. promising to name his son after Willie — a promise he would later break, by the way.
So….Early Rosterbation exercise.
1B Freeman
2b Jace Peterson (assuming Ozzie won’t be ready Opening Day)
SS Swanson
3B Garcia
C ???
LF Mallex
CF Inciarte
RF Kemp
IF d’Arnaud (until Ozzie is caled up)
IF Ruiz
IF/OF Bonifaccio or Kelly Johnson or Francoeur
PH Recker or Snyder
C Flowers
SP Teheran
SP Folty
SP Wisler
SP ???
SP ???
RP Jim Johnson
RP Simmons
RP Cabrera
RP Ramirez
RP Krol
RP Withrow
RP Vizcaino
Trade Markakis to an AL contender for whatever we can get.
When Albies is ready, slide Jace into the Super Utility role and get rid of one of the bench players. Ruiz and Adonis platoon at 3B, with Garcia getting 60% of the starts.
Sign Wilson Ramos – hurts the Nats, helps us.
Ask what the ChiSox want for Sale. Settle for Francisco Liriano. Stick Jenkins, Blair, Gant, Weber, Whalen, Newcomb, Bradley, Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe into the Thunderdome. 10 men enter, one man leaves.
I think that team would be fun to watch – might struggle to get to .500, but might put it together and win 85 and threaten for the Wild Card.
Late to edit:
If you can’t get a decent return for Nick – keep him and Mallex. Let Mallex start 3 games a week, spelling the other three. Say 6 games a week x 3 OF spots = 18 starts.
Ender starts 5 in CF.
Kemp starts 4-5 switching between RF and LF.
Markakis starts 4-5 in RF.
Mallex starts 3-4 in CF and LF.
Garcia starts against all lefties, with Rio getting 2-3 starts a week versus righties.
@32, Well if your criteria is “he wasn’t Andruw with the glove” you’re not going to take a shine to many outfielders.
I think you have a short memory when it comes to both players. For instance, Ender Inciarte’s “consistent production.” Take a look at his 1st half/2nd half splits: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=inciaen01&year=2016&t=b#half
“Ask what the ChiSox want for Sale. Settle for Francisco Liriano.” Thanks for the mid-day laugh, Seat Painter. I appreciated the CarTalk reference, too.
I agree about Liriano and Sale by the way. Those are the kinds of pitchers we ought to be targeting if our goal is to be competitive again soon. Stay out of the middle-tier: potential aces and trashpile pickups only, please, especially if we’re on the hook for more than one year of his contract.
Jason Heyward is a very good player. He is being paid a sum of money, though, that he will never earn unless he increases his career OPS by 100+ points. Ender’s top-third-in-most-areas skillset, to many, is more favorable than Heyward’s extremely weak bat for a corner and elite defense.
I think saying that he’s not Andruw with the glove is a reaction to a $184-million contract given to a player who plays elite right field defense. I think the conception is that he needs to play elite center field defense to command that kind of money. With that said, his baserunning skills also add value that’s not considered during the offense vs. defense discussions.
Jason Heyward is still a really good player, and the Cubs are fortunate to have him on their roster. If you ask most Braves fans, they’d rather see $26M AAV spend a bit more wisely. And when you consider that Ender will probably never even make $26M in two years, then it becomes a pretty easy comparison.
Just looked at Ender’s career stats. He’s a 3-4 WAR player who is going to:
Hit 25+ doubles and 5 or so home runs.
Steal 20+ bases, but not at an elite %
OPS around .750
Play elite defense.
Play hard and hustle all the time.
Occasionally run into an out that will leave you scratching your head.
Be, as far as I can tell, a great teammate.
I would take 3 of him for my team any day.
Is he better than JHay? I dunno – probably not, but it’s not as cut and dried as it seems.
and he’ll add a couple enjoyable deke plays
I was at Miller Park a few years ago when Carlos Gomez saved a go-ahead Joey Votto HR for the last out of the game. Rather inconsequential, but it was quite exciting. I was entertained.
That catch was crazy good. Certainly the clubhouse leader (with a large lead) for play of the year.
People calling it (or even really asking if it’s) the best catch in Braves history are being a little silly, though, both in degree of difficultly of the play and in what it meant at the time. If that ball had glanced off his glove and gone over the fence, I’d have been over it by the time Cespedes touched home plate, given the fact that we’ve already lost 90 games this season.
Otis Nixon’s catch was definitely better, as it’s the same basic play but more difficult for a team trying to lock down a division title. Andruw made like five catches that were better, and that Heyward play to end the game at Citi Field was better in that it was for a team that was fighting for a division title at the time. I will give this the nod over the Heyward catch in the wild card game, which I must admit that I’d completely forgotten about.
@49, I don’t mean to knock Inciarte. He’s a lovely player, a good Brave. But to praise his consistent production for the Braves is to ignore the fact that he has not given the Braves consistent production. He was a dreadful, dreadful hitter for half the season. And he’s been a very good hitter for the last 85 games or so.
But even if he were totally consistent? Y’all, Inciarte has a career 95 wRC+ (a tick worse than Heyward’s bad Braves season in 2011), and this season it’s 98. Inciarte is good, and he’s fun, and he’s definitely worth more than we’re paying him, and it’s nice that he wasn’t here before this season because now we can picture him as part of a bright future and not part of an unsatisfactory past, and you can take him and whomever else you want in the I-just-like-him-that’s-why fantasy draft, and he’s absolutely the best deker in baseball not named Andrelton Simmons. But let’s not pretend we have the second coming of Mickey Mantle or Dale Murphy or Andruw Jones in him, or even Jason Heyward.
@48/Rob Cope,
Small sample size alert: Heyward has now started 51 games in centerfield for his career (most of them in this year and in 2013), and has ‘saved runs’ (is there a better verb form of DRS?) at a better rate than Inciarte this year.
Which is to say that as near as I can tell, he actually does play the kind of elite center field defense that his salary demands. It remains a wonder that he doesn’t play center more often.
He’s got a nice game that will play well for us in CF. If you compare him to the usual dreck we’ve put in CF in the post-Andruw era he looks like breath of fresh air. If he hits like he has in the 2nd half then he’s extremely valuable and extremely cheap. Will he hit like that consistently? Who knows, but we might as well find out.
The notion that Heyward is not a center fielder, I’m fairly certain, is due to prejudices about players of his size needing to play the corner. It’s the same sort of thinking that would’ve put Cal Ripken at 3B bc height.
By the way, it’s also the thinking that insisted we needed to acquire BJ Upton to play below average CF to keep Heyward in RF. Gotta love rigid stupidity.
Yeah, if there was one thing I took away from the aforementioned Heyward Citi Field catch other than excitement that it happened, it was: “So he can pretty clearly play center field better than our everyday center fielder. Why is this not happening on a regular basis?” And then, it never did happen on a regular basis. Especially since Justin Upton was better in right field than in left, for some reason. Wouldn’t the optimal lineup have been B.J. (assuming he has to be in there) in left, Heyward in center and Justin in right?
I think the Heyward-to-CF issue was a matter of timing. Melvin Upton was signed in 2013. In the year previous, Heyward hit .269/.335/.479 with 27 HR and 21 SBs against 8 CS and won a Gold Glove. He was 22, and at the time, the expectation was that he would continue to develop. And after all, he had the body to hit for power, steal bases, and play a damn good RF, and there wasn’t a concern yet that his bat would need to be hid in CF. So the Braves signed Melvin, hoping that this would be one of the best defensive outfields in baseball. They then spent two seasons watching Heyward move backwards and Melvin turn into a pumpkin, and there was never a time that it made sense to shift Heyward to CF full-time because you would be giving up on Upton in year 1 or 2 of a 5-year deal. By the time the Braves had given up on Melvin, it was time to trade Heyward as he already turned down an extension, telling them that he wanted to be paid like the RF he was in 2012. But in that time, he had declined in OPS two straight seasons and left the Braves no choice.
I think the Braves get a pass for not putting him in CF. But as Fowler leaves for FA, the pressure is now on Chicago to hide his bat in CF, especially as he’s due for a $6.5M raise next year.
@46, he is consistent! Just look at his career 1st half/2nd half splits: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=inciaen01&year=Career&t=b
Career
1st half: 697 PA, .252/.295/.322
2nd half: 852 PA, .326/.371/.438
2016
1st half: 254 PA, .227/.294/.306
2nd half: 287 PA, .352/.404/.452
@17…. I’m in the “Look outside the organization” camp for our manager next season. Snit’s overuse of the bullpen scares me. We have great depth in that area, but we’ll need even more the way he piles on with the top relievers. Ex: Last night, in a game that was nice to win, but not a crucial “must win” situation, he used Jim Johnson for the the third straight night, and fourth time in five days. It worked out, barely, but I’d sure have preferred to see Mauricio or Simmons get a look in that pressure situation. I’m also dumbfounded that we see the same line-up nightly, when Mallex and Ruiz should be getting some at-bats.
Two last thoughts… Chaz Roe should be on the list for next year’s roster, and if we were to sign Ramos or Weiters, would Flowers be tradable? Recker looks to be better offensively and defensively. IMO.
Murph was a big fellow too. He did okay in center. I’d have liked Jason better had he played there.
Wasn’t it the wear and tear of the position the Braves were worried about with Heyward?
At the time Jason was coming up, one of the (only) concerns about him was his ability to stay on the field. Playing him in right was seen as a way to keep him healthy. I seem to remember a lot of people saying he could make the plays in center, but that right was a better way to keep him healthy and in the lineup. Other than intuition, I have no idea about how correct that line of reasoning is.
What the Hey, he’s a Cub. Go Braves.
Just because I like you guys: Never ask a woman eating ice cream out of the carton how she’s doing.
That is all. Back to our regularly scheduled JHey Angst.
@61, the young guys will play in the games against teams that aren’t in playoff contention. When we’re playing the Mets and anyone else still in the race, we have to field our best lineups or risk messing up the sanctity of fair competition during the final month.
Of course nobody will talk or complain about the previous months when we fielded pure-tank lineups against the Nats and allowed them to easily win the division based on their record against us alone…lol.
Lesson well learned, I assume, Seat Painter?
@65 – The same advice also applies when a woman has a mound of hershey kiss chocolate wrappers piled up on her table.
Jason Heyward says gender is a social construct
Any reason why Dansby isn’t starting other than a day off?
José Urena is one of those aces they’re trying to protect him from.
Probably just to give Beckham some ABs and Swanson a day off. They have started letting Swanson face stiffer competition.
Swanson is on pace to lose his rookie eligibility for 2017. I would expect him to sit 3 more games to avoid that.
That’s actually pretty cool. Definitely want him to have rookie status next year.
Meanwhile, Matt Kemp is dropping bombs. Can you imagine how good those replacement players that are all better than him must be?
Yeah, his glove is so poor we should probably just release him…
That’s why the Padres won so many World Series with him
@24, I think it was even better for being the second out of the 9th inning than the third. The game was still in the balance (1-0 with a runner on)…the 13-game winning streak was on the line…it was our then-rival the Pirates…and that catch by Otis gave the pursuit of that last out an orgasmic quality that was becoming the “new normal” in Atlanta in that era. I was watching that live on TV and man, oh, man…someone could have smacked me upside the head with a hammer and it wouldn’t have taken that smile off my face.
In checking out that video I caught this catch by Gary Matthews Jr. on the YouTube sidebar. I’d never seen it before. Maybe it’s just me but I think this catch puts everything else in a fight for second place:
The Matthews catch is definitely amazing. I wonder how tall that wall is compared to Citi Field. It looks like he got about 5 feet over the wall.
I just checked out the BR pages for Sarge and Little Sarge and saw where Jr. made $12m in his last year of his career… That looks to be about double what his dad made over his entire career. Kinda crazy. (Over his life, GM Jr. made $55m.)
Gary Matthews Jr. was certainly no slouch in his career…he had a long career as a valuable role player and even had some solid full seasons under his belt. But his dad was so good for so long…way, way better. But the kid is phenomenally more wealthy than the dad. Wonder who buys the turkey for Thanksgiving every year.
You might be old when the only two events on your calendar are getting the trash to the road on Tuesdays and Fridays. If it were not for trash days and doctors’ appointments, I’d have no social life at all.
You know, the way this team is playing, 70 wins is STILL a possibility.
Unlikely, as we’d need to go 8-1, but still…..
Who hangs up first?
Atlanta sends: Kolby Allard, Max Fried, Ozzie Albies, and Austin Riley.
Miami sends: Jose Fernandez
Then Coppy spends a BUNCH of that Big Bucks to extend Jose for 7/210.
I’m not sure, but I think Miami does, but they’d at least have to put the Braves on Hold while they discussed it.
Braves
Uh, Miami. Just in case anyone needs a reminder, we’re the team that’s rebuilding, and they’re the team that’s contending.
That’s certainly an off-season phone call, but Scott Boras represents Jose, and he’s refused to talk about an extension with Pure Evil. There was some minor talk back around the trading deadline that Miami would at least listen to offers, and the rumor mill was that they listened last winter at the Winter Meetings despite publicly saying he wasn’t available.
If they feel that they couldn’t afford the extension (I think he is a free agent in 2 more years), and we know how cheap the Marlins are, then I could see them trading him this winter if they get blown away.
Now I wouldn’t trade 4 Top 100 prospects for two years of control, but if Fernandez signed an extension….(Not that Boras would talk extension with us either.)
Anyway, the point I’m thinking about is that this is the TYPE of trade I think the Front Office is looking to make this offseason. Something unexpected that leverages some of the prospects for a stud. Maybe not Jose (although I’d love to see him in Atlanta), but someone off the radar.
Yeah, I don’t know that that trade makes much sense for either side. I would really hate it for the Braves, and I love Fernandez.
So – Josh Collmenter has expressed interest in staying with the Braves next season, and per Cot’s Contracts, Collmenter’s contract is as follows: $2M mutual option ($2.25M if club exercises, $0.15M buyout if club declines). It feels like the Braves would be foolish *not* to tender him a contract; he would (at minimum) be cheap, veteran rotation filler until the first wave of young arms (Sims, Newcomb, Weigel, Jenkins et al.) hits the majors.
I don’t have any problem with Collmenter staying on. He’d be perfect to toss into the mix for a 5th starter role. And maybe he will be just fine there. And if he stinks? He’s a free agent after next year, so it’s not like we’re stuck to an albatross of a contract.
I said this the day we traded for Collmenter. He’s currently our #3 starter. He will stay with the Braves
Gary Matthews’ catch is unreal but unfortunately for him, Skip Carey wasn’t there to call it. That’s why Otis Nixon will always be number 1 for me.
Collmenter is fine. We would be looking for a guy like him if we released him.
That trade for Fernandez is heinous. I think the Sox are more likely to move Sale and his contract makes him a more attractive target. If we actually want to contend next year, we need to acquire either one true ace or two top-30 pitchers (among other things).
I’m also OK with not selling the farm to fall just short of a Wild Card spot next year. If there’s a trade that makes sense, make it, but don’t overpay out of impatience.
The Sox should be looking to move Sale, but their owner, Reinsdorf, can be unpredictable when it comes to permitting things like that.
What would you say to targeting Greinke, if the Snakes can be convinced to eat some of his salary?
I can’t imagine the Snakes would want to eat salary just to get rid of Greinke after one year. But there’s no way I’d take on his $35 mil per year after the season he’s had. Hypothetically, if they were eating $10 mil per year ($50 mil total), I’d be interested, but I wouldn’t give up the same level of prospects I would for Sale (guys like Albies, Newcomb, and Riley)
If you’re going to go after an ace level starter, I’d like it to be one of the right side of 30.
Pass on Greinke.
Collmenter is topping out at 87 and has had a laundry list of issues the past couple of years. Might as well throw 2 million in Suntrust’s dumpster on Opening Day.
If Bartolo Colon can get MLB hitters out with his blazing 86 mph heater, I don’t see why we can’t take a flyer on Collmenter.
Interesting read over on Slate:
http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/the_next_20/2016/09/fire_joe_morgan_and_the_moneyball_revolution.html
Doesn’t violate the No Politics Rule.
Collmenter’s fine so long as he doesn’t count as the offseason’s “veteran SP acquisition”. As a reclamation project, sure, why not.
@97 Agreed – Collmenter is the kind of guy a rebuilding team takes a flier on; not a pitcher a team acquires for the purposes of contending. Assuming he stays healthy, I imagine he’d give the Braves at least 10 starts next year while the Braves wait to see which of the prospects in AA/AAA look ready for the big time. If the improbable happens and Collmenter is decent (3.75 – 4 ERA) then the Braves will have the choice of riding the hot hand or trading him away Bud Norris-style.
@96, that article quotes Schur from 2006:
“If you seek to invalidate the use of statistical analysis … if you denigrate it, mock it, or look down your nose at it … if you write terrible mock-poetry articles declaring the objective superiority of gut instinct and old-fashioned “stare tests” over numbers-based research … then you are a far bigger snob, a far bigger ignoramus, and a far more provincial person than those whom you target with tripe like this.”
Yes, this, exactly this.
Bartolo has topped out as high as 93 and has been healthy.
The reason I like Greinke is he’s the very definition of a buy-low candidate: massive contract, an organization in utter disarray, and a very recent history of extraordinary success. I’m not saying that he’ll get better, but given his track record, he’s almost certain to have a dead-cat bounce back to respectability next year, and for all of the above reasons, he’s the kind of guy we should target. Unlike Colon and Collmenter, he could actually be on the next good Braves team.
That said, he’s stupidly expensive and there’s a decent chance that he turns into Mike Hampton, a guy who can’t pitch but whose contract just seems to go on forever. So it would have to be a reasonable deal. But we’ll see.
Over .500 since the beginning of August, even with our depleted/inconsistent pitching. Gotta wonder what could happen next season with better, deeper starting. TBH, I think the Braves might be competitive before 2024.
On Bartolo, if we’re going to have a Slate baseball article, we can have a WSJ baseball article:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/is-bartolo-colon-the-best-43-year-old-pitcher-of-all-time-1474592094
“Is Bartolo Colon the Best 43-Year-Old Pitcher of All Time?”
Nope – that answer is going to be Satchel Paige forever.
Warren Spahn has got to be in the mix as well, no?
Edit: No. 6-13 5.29 ERA at 43.
But at age 42, however….
23-7 2.60 ERA.
Damn that falling off the Age 43 cliff.
Satchel, ages 44-46: 317 1/3 IP, 126 G, 13 GS, 3.57 ERA, 115 ERA+, two All-Star appearances.
Just imagine how good he was 25 years earlier.
Though not outrageous, Phil Niekro was pretty good between ages 43 & 46 (60-34 w/ 3.69 ERA in 871 IP)
At 43 in ATL, he went 17-4 w/ 3.81 ERA.
In The Bronx at 45, he went 16-8 w/ 3.09 ERA.
ERA+ was 104, 98, 123, 99
Clemens had a ERA+ of 194 his age 43 season, though he only started 19 games.
Nolan Ryan at age 42 threw 240 innings and struck out 301 with a 2.51 FIP and 1.006 WHIP. In his age 44 season he threw 170 innings with a 1.006 WHIP… His ERA+ from age 42-45 were 124, 114, 140, 103.
Could be better than Satchel Paige, definitely better than Spahn or Niekro though.
Clemens was playing golf in May of his age 43 season, so he’s exempt.
It’s almost like Clemens had help
With his golf game?
The reason I like Greinke is because we’d be dealing with Dave Stewart. Grienke + Pollack + 2017 1st round pick for Chase D’Arnaud and cash. Maybe he’d throw in Shelby Miller to sweeten the deal?
@101, Mike Hampton could pitch. He just couldn’t stay on the field, that was his problem. But he logged some quality innings for the Braves.
In the first two seasons, yeah. Then he pitched fewer than 150 innings over the next four years of the contract. Either way, the contract was a monumental albatross.
Seen a lot of folks penciling Wisler in their projected rotation for next year. He hasn’t done enough to deserve that spot.
@116, no he hasn’t, but he’s the least bad of the young pitching options after Folty. I say we sign Bud Norris again, keep Collmenter, sign buchholz, and make Wisler beat one of them out.
Brutal strike call
Good for Kemp and better for Snitker
What happened?
Markakis drew ball four with the bases loaded but the ump called it a strike. I guess kemp got tossed?
Yeah Kemp and Snitker both were tossed. 3-1 pitch was high and away. Call came late also.
I’m sure the anti-Wisler comments upthread were made during his rocky first inning, but man, he sure was lights-out after that. I’m not penciling him into anything next year, but he and Folty are clearly a cut above the other guys who’ve gotten ML run this year, IMO.
Do we really have so little depth in the pen that Cunniff is in a tie ballgame in the 8th inning? They said Cabrera’s velo was down, and they’re still trying to ease Simmons back in, so maybe so. Simmons hasn’t appeared since 9/18, Withrow on the 17th, and Cabrera last night but before that, the 17th. Weird.
Mauricio is a weird beast. His stint in Atlanta has been his lowest BB/9 since he was 18 in low-A. His BB/9 in AA across two seasons was 7.1!! And then he gets to Atlanta, and boom, 3.7 BB/9.
THATTA BOY FLOWERS! He finally throws a runner out to nail the tying run at 2nd with 2 outs in the 9th.
Baseball funny
Mallex!! Winner!
Officially <100 losses!
I don’t know if the Braves wanted Snitker as their next manager, but he’s earned that job. Team is playing pretty good baseball.
Guh… the Braves are totally going to play themselves out of the 2nd draft pick, aren’t they?
Actually, there’s a very real scenario where the Braves end up with the 7th pick. 5 teams are within three games of the Braves. We have 63 wins, and Cincy, San Diego, Arizona, Oakland, and Tampa Bay have 66 wins or less. A few of them, though, have played two less games than us, so there’s more “ground” for them to make up.
It wouldn’t bother me one bit if we lost the games started by Collmenter, Gant, De La Cruz, et al and won most of the games by Teheran, Folty, and Wisler.
Amazing all the septembers under Frediot we couldn’t play .500 ball…
I’m down with Snit. Give him a couple of more pitchers or one stud plus our new Bartolo, and we’ll hoist the World Series Championship flag our first year in Cobb. We may never lose again.
I will be definitely disappointed should we lose a game again.
Recapped.
Dawgs and Gators agree: the end is near!