The Astros were just two innings from the NLCS ALCS, and then they gave up seven runs in the final two innings, keyed by some horrible relief and a backbreaking error by rookie shortstop Carlos Correa, and a game they were winning 6-2 turned into a gutpunch 9-6 loss.
Couldn’t have happened to a nicer team. Revenge is a dish best served cold.
I feel like I get new threaded a lot.
Steve Mackay died yesterday, speaking of the Stooges.
I’d put Utley on first, and pray for a ground ball. I’d instruct my shortstop to pin him between the eyes with an 89 mph heater from about 12 feet.
ALCS, not NLCS. But yes, it’s good to see them lose a gutpunch.
I’m conflicted watching these baby Cubs hit mammoth bombs left and right. On the one hand, it’s against the Cardinals and that’s awesome, but on the other, it makes me a sad panda when comparing their lineup to ours. What they have can’t be traded for.
@5, Yeah well we had the guy who hit the double and the homer off of Arrieta. You can’t trade for them, but you can certainly trade them away.
Does anyone think a player would have received a two-game suspension for doing what Chase Utley did, if it was to a second baseman on, say, the Kansas City Royals? The whole overreaction smacks of New York bias.
The Braves hired Kiley McDaniel, too. That’s pretty interesting.
Let’s get Bill Simmons into one of our Caribbean academies while we’re at it.
@7 The ruling on the field wouldn’t have changed (or would have changed twice) if it wasn’t in LA.
The league was just doing damage control because of how instrumental it was in the game.
The Cubs did trade for Rizzo and sign Fowler.
So what qualifies a Fangraphs writer to be “Assistant Director of Baseball Operations”? I’m genuinely curious.
The Mets aren’t being LolMets for once. Now, they’ve just gotta hold on to this one, win again tomorrow, lose to the Cubs and immanentize the eschaton.
@12, When he was in college he worked for Coppy with the Yanks in their baseball ops department. Which is more of a “why he got the job” than “why he’s qualified”.
@5
You’re really just becoming a troll at this point.
Chris Coughlan – Traded For
Addison Russell – Traded For
Anthony Rizzo – Traded For
Miguel Montero – Traded For
Dexter Fowler – Signed
Pitching Side:
Jake Arietta – Traded For
Jason Hammel – Traded For
Kyle Kendricks – Traded For
Jon Lester – Signed
I get that they developed Bryant, Soler, Schwarber, and Baez, and admittedly, the narrative on the Cubs is “Home Grown Talent”, but at least do your homework before you take every opportunity to rail on the rebuild.
The Braves’ rotation will largely end up being homegrown or developed by trading for prospects. The Cubs’ had to trade for or sign every starter, and 5/8 of their lineup. If you want to point to something, point to their payroll, which most likely was 12th in baseball.
You’re also just contradicting yourself since the rebuild has focused on the replenishing the farm system. By doing so, they can trade for lineup pieces, like the Cubs did.
Gosh, man, pull yourself together.
What fun…striking out the side.
Bartolo Colon
Tonight could be said to come into his own
five 2 and 280
the problems he posed to the Dodgers were weighty.
Ripken is sounding more and more of an apologist for Utley’s actions and less and less prepared to acknowledge where the slide commenced along the distance between the two bases and, once under way, what was its target, angularly.
@7
Yes, I think if Utley had “slid” like that against any other team and broken the infielder’s leg, he’d have gotten the exact same discipline he got. No, I don’t think he’d have gotten any suspension if he hadn’t broken the guy’s leg.
So many things happened on that play, Tejada rather stupidly put himself at risk by trying that spin, Utley clearly interfered with a defender without making a legitimate play at the base, and mlb reviewed the neighborhood call.
Just a massive cluster-honk
the Dark Knight
an occasion where his pitches lacked their bite
bailed out by his bats
which removes any chance he be traded to the Nats.
Alex Wood
the bad overcoming the good
what did we feel?
a little less likely we gave them a steal.
Juan Lagares
a lover of salads Caesares
now back at his post
how is it that all of our prospects look toast?
@4, thanks. D’oh! Fixed.
Kiley McDaniel is a really smart writer and a really smart scout. This is an exciting hire.
Kershaw’s got his stage tonight. If he tosses a game like he did to clinch the west, the past is forgiven. If not, well … he can still pitch for the Braves if he wants.
Hey guys. Ben Chase over at Tomahawk Take is doing his Braves Top-100 prospects! Even if the bottom 50 are fringy, it’s nice that there are 100 guys to actually write about. Check out #s 81-100!
http://tomahawktake.com/2015/10/12/atlanta-braves-top-100-prospects-81-100/
Utley’s slide was as dirty as they come. The SS put himself “at risk” because there was no play for Utley to make. If he starts his slide before he reaches the bag, there’s no problem whatever. It was a dirty play, and it’s disgusting that he’s still playing. Given that they just changed the catcher collision rules for player safety, it’s absurd that the the runner at 1B wasn’t called out by rule and Utley wasn’t ejected on the spot.
But whatever. I’m checked out on baseball. Go Royals? I guess?
@13, sparkling use of phrase. I loled
Heyward, Medlen, Wood, and Gattis are all one game from going home.
Another very sad day in South Carolina.
Why do we hate the Astros again?
I’ll give you 18 reasons
I honestly have no idea why we hate the Astros. This isn’t snark.
I assume 31 is a reference to 2005. Not sure the Astros are responsible for Joey Divine sucking.
I like the Astros, but that’s because EOB lives there. Otherwise, who cares?
They got payback for 2005 yesterday. Now, beat the annoying Royals.
@15, it’s not a rebuild. It’s a Loria-style teardown. Let’s keep our nomenclature straight on this.
There is no reason to assume the Braves are in a “Loria-style teardown.” That’s just KRussell being hyperbolic. That said, the Marlins have won two World Series Championships since the last time the Braves won theirs, so maybe a teardown/rebuild isn’t that bad of an idea every two decades or so.
Why the Astros hate? I’m actually pulling for them as the underdog of all underdogs and a NL emigrant.
@9 — Bill Simmons or Colin Cowherd?
I prefer the bomb squad Astros to the Royals. I prefer Americans to Canuckistanians. I hate Dallas AND Houston as cities, and actually Houston a bit more, but I would lean to the old NL team over the Rangers.
I hate the Cubs. I hate the Cards. I hate the Dodgers. I am reduced to slightly not rooting actively against the fucking Mutts. This season sucks.
@37, I don’t disagree that their approach might be better. Being mediocre is a sports purgatory. My only point throughout this whole ordeal is that any successful rebuild must be via the draft. We aren’t trading for Kris Bryant, regardless of the number of TJ-surgery-having pitching pieces we have to deal with. Building through the draft means multiple bad seasons. That’s where we are. We’ll be good again if/when the next few draft classes pan out.
@32, 38- Whenever you have a chance to Stooge a team over an ancient grudge you do it. Even if they’re kind of lovable.
And the 2005 Astros hate is about the Musclebound Mercenary, the HGHessian himself: RoidRog Clemens.
@41
Provide that proof, please. International signings, re-vamping through trading vets for prospects. These are just fooling ways to rebuild in your opinion? Ugh…
And I have to agree with Rob…this is just trolling now. Unfortunately I keep taking the bait.
Guys, it reached trolling at the All Star break
Chipper Jones – “I hate to say this, but I’ve actually found myself rooting for the Mets.”
Uhhh… I’d say that’s a pretty good reason to open up the purse strings this offseason. You can’t be so bad that your beloved, homegrown player you paid to keep in town for his entire career is rooting for your rival in the playoffs while your team is at home sipping lemonade.
what was the worst series for you, the one that was the nadir?
Colorado or the Yankees?
The hell it’s trolling.
The proof is on display at Turner Field. And in the goings on with White Flight Field. And in our transition from competitive franchise to “searching for market inefficiencies with injured players” franchise. I’m not trolling. I’m pointing out the obvious. This organization is pissing on our collective heads and a lot of y’all think it’s just an afternoon shower.
All because Frank Wren is a dick? I mean he probably is, but I don’t see why we fans should care.
I don’t hate the Astros, but I will take absolute unapologetic sadistic glee in their receiving an LDS gutpunch. I’m happy with saying that we’re quits now.
In the end everything I’m ranting about comes back to us being owned by Liberty Media. It’s hard to be optimistic about the team’s future unless one can also be optimistic about a change of ownership.
If you guys think that all the guys involved with running the baseball team are doing their best with the hand they are dealt then that’s understandable, and kinda hard to argue with. It’s the same excuse our execs can make when defending their job performances.
@49, 51: I am your brother on this issue. Well, not my literal brother. Gaz is my literal brother. But like, spiritually.
That said, at this point I’m going to take a few weeks off and watch the playoffs and college football and the odd Falcons game. I think the overall health of this place might benefit from being Not-Braves Journal for a little bit, at least until there’s a real offseason to critique.
OK, I’ve had a much needed nap. Now…I would encourage anyone who’s tempted to call what krussell has said trolling to go back and look at the content of his posts from as objective a standpoint as you can muster. What is he doing but espousing a consistent, well-considered (even if you disagree!) viewpoint? One that several others here agree with to some extent, not to mention one that’s born of a frustration that various Johns have gone in front of microphones throughout this season to say they understand? How can that be trolling? I think you mean you disagree.
So, Piscotty. The Cardinals just sh*t postseason performers.
It’s poetic justice seeing Simpson, who railed about the 2014 Atlanta Braves team relying on the long ball too much and how great it was that the 2015 team sought to change that, being forced to watch as a TBS broadcaster as the Cubs win the NLDS with the home run (75% of their series runs against the Cardinals have come via home run).
I bet they don’t play the game the right way either.
Not sure the Astros are responsible for Joey Divine sucking.
They’re not, no more than Pujols “ruined” Brad Lidge in 2005 (this meme taking off after Lidge’s awful 2006 season). Then what happened? He had that perfect season in 2008 after being traded to the Phillies.
Mark Wohlers, Joey Devine… do people really believe that relief pitchers are such fragile babies that their delicate psyches are ruined by a badly-timed home run?
I wouldn’t call it trolling–that implies he doesn’t really believe his own position but is being argumentative for the sake of conflict. Whoever said he was being hyperbolic had it right. He has been very consistent, just consistently a doomer. What I object to is his strawman response that whomever disagrees with his exaggerations is some sort of self-deluded Liberty/Johns acolyte.
This is basically how it goes:
Krussell: this is the worst ever
Other guy: come now, it isn’t the *worst* ever
Krussell: oh, so you’re saying it’s the best ever
The Cards is dead!
We all have our moments, but in this particular thread I don’t read it that way. Oh well, I’m not sure there’s anything to be done about the difference in opinion between the butthurt haters and the authoriarian sympathizers….it’s a brain chemistry thing probably.
Trevor Cahill credited with the W for the Cubs. Lol.
@58, lol, well you gotta admit that this year was pretty close to the worst ever. I was just a kid in the 70’s so I don’t vividly remember all of those bad teams, but I think I’d put the post-white-flag 2015 Braves up against any of those.
The Cubs are very entertaining, and I’m very jealous of that lineup.
Words I never thought I’d say:
Go Mets!
Greetings from Amsterdam…
Anybody but the Mets.
The thing that frustrates me about the way the discussion has unfolded is the complete binary thing.
If you are critical of ownership (which I am) or think there’s a point to speaking out about it, then you automatically hate the Heyward trade because it’s a symptom of the disease (which I don’t — I liked the trade and continue to, and because Shelby Miller, how could one not? But I do think it’s very disconcerting that the Braves don’t seem to think it’s worth spending big on the kind of player he is. That’s not an ownership thing, necessarily).
Likewise, if you supported the rebuild (I suppose I do in theory, given our situation), then in all likelihood you’re in the tank for how it’s being executed, e.g. Markakis (vomit), our treasure trove of middling prospects (personally not a fan, but a couple rebounds next year could change my perspective), and the Olivera trade (the only response I can muster is bafflement).
I’m OK with dumping Wren, but not the way the Braves handled it. My view of the Johns regime will come down to whether they can deliver on all this international signings braggadocio because these prospects, so far… The Kiley McDaniel news today, small as it may be in the grand scheme, has made me the happiest I’ve been with the Braves in a while. With Kiley’s advice, my keeper team features Correa, Bryant, Seager, Russell, Syndergaard, Pederson, Odor…I could go on 🙂
Anyhow, there’s no room for nuance.
Yeah, no, go Dodgers.
Sort of excited for Mets v Cubs….
Deep playoff run unchartered water for Cards’ Heyward
Looks like it still is!
64—Amen, brother.
@65,I agree with every word you wrote there. I must be missing the nuanced parts…lol.
I can totally picture Bartolo Colon running a country.
This country?
Whichever one he wants.
Works for me.
I could have easily seen him playing General Modrano in Quantum of Solace.
Judging from the Dem debate, let him run this country.
@76, that’s over the no politics line.
@76, there is one rule here…
Anyway, the Cubs. I won a six-pack of beer from a preseason bet once they made the playoffs, so I’m kind of partial to them. And they beat the damn Cardinals. And they hit home runs and don’t mind if they strike out. And they’re still alive to fulfill that Back to the Future II championship prophecy. And one time I went to Wrigley and went to some Wrigleyville bar after the game and watched some drunk bros swimming in the bar patio’s fountain. I can get on this bandwagon.
I hate the Cards, I hate the Mets, I hate the Astros, I hate the Dodgers, I hate the Cubs, I hate the Blue Jays….basically any team who has beaten the Braves in the playoff or any NL East team I hate…these leave me with the Royals and the Rangers for this playoff.
Whoops. I know the rule. Thought it was under the line.
@70, You’re for the notion that there needed to be some sort of rebuild last season, even though you remain critical of ownership? If so, I stand corrected.
You may be cool, but you’ll never be cutting a 100mph fastball in half in one motion while unsheathing your sword cool.
http://kotaku.com/samurai-slices-a-100-mph-baseball-in-half-1736420399
@81, in a nutshell, I’m for the notion of not doing the firesale and going for it in 2015. The rebuild phase was going to happen either way. I’m upset about having a season of watching good/likable players taken from me. The jump-start on the “rebuild” wasn’t worth it. My position is that none of the pieces we got are going to help much, and Shelby Miller will be a free agent by the time we’re good again.
the specter of hates
brandished as each his memory dictates
sully the tone
effectively, unattractively they echo a drone.
I wouldn’t mind the Cubs if their fans weren’t a completely insufferable pack of frat-boy douchebags with the biggest inferiority complex in the history of inferiority complexes. Never has a group of fans that’s never seen their team do anything but shit themselves time and again acted more arrogant to compensate for the fact that they know they’re going to lose. They’re already acting like they won the World Series now. I mean, it’s almost unbearable. They do know they need to win two more series, yes?
I hate to agree, but I’m actually finding the Mets to be the most likable team in the NL playoffs. I could live with either them or the Dodgers as long as one of them keeps the freaking Cubs out of the World Series. If you think Red Sox fans were bad after they finally won a World Series and started acting like they’ve always been the toast of baseball, you have no idea what a Cubs fan with a World Series title under his belt will look like. I don’t think the world’s ready for it.
Any of the remaining AL teams, now that the Yankees are out, would be OK with me, and there’s no way I’m not rooting for the AL in the World Series at this point. I guess I’d prefer Kansas City, if you force me to choose.
Steven Matz
he ran into no army of blistering bats
but rather his own
curved and dismembered they, finally, prone.
@83
I think it’s easy to say the pieces we got are not going to help much and we won’t be good until Shelby Miller is a free agent. No real data to suggest otherwise, so yeah, feel free. Of course, no real data to suggest what you’re saying is true.
We don’t have #2, #4, #5, #6, #8, #10, #12, #13, or #15 (plus Folty) of the top 20 prospects that the prospect people rate if we don’t make those trades, and the two OFs we didn’t trade probably end up leaving for free agency.
That’s why the “nuance” in the middle of the two book-end positions on the rebuild is interesting. Let’s say you keep Frank Wren, you don’t bring back the Scouting Dream Team, you pick up draft picks for when JUpton and Heyward leave for free agency, but you’ve got Gattis, BUpton, Johnson, and Kimbrel. That’s an interesting scenario. What would the previous administration have done with it? What if you fired Wren, hired back the Scouting Dream Team, but didn’t rebuild? We don’t get to draft Austin Riley (he was a pick we picked up in a trade), but you grab everybody else, and you have a few more picks in the 2016 draft. You’re probably still, in all of those scenarios, not good until Shelby Miller is a free agent.
It’s really probably more six of one, half a dozen of the other. You’re going to have a couple to few seasons of ineptitude based on the condition of the farm system in 2015 and its inevitable result of the on-field talent of the future, but the rebuild trades a first round exit in the 2015 Playoffs (honestly, does anyone see us beating the Cubs or the Mets/Dodgers?) for a 63-win season and several lottery tickets. You have a shot at shaving off one or two years of the inevitable rebuild in return for punting on a near-guaranteed first round exit. Plus, you get a couple more seasons to see what you got with Fredi with no importance, and then fire him.
@87, you don’t have to agree with me. I’m just trying to clarify my position. Odds are very high that we’re not going to be good either way. That’s why Wren was fired, right? Why the rest of the fools have jobs is beyond me though. Apparently they sat around and played golf while Wren wrecked the system, and now they are going to jump to the call of action to fix it. Whateva. Diffusion of accountability is one of the classic signs of a bad organization.
I’ve said this before Rob, but there is no way that a Compete-In-2015 plan could have included Craig Kimbrel. Just picking a little nit.
In 2015:
1.) The Twins were nearly in the playoffs. The Twins!
2.) The Rangers were (and are) completely in the playoffs despite a billion injuries.
3.) The Cardinals won 100 games despite a billion injuries
4.) The Red Sox rode a huge off-season into a last-place finish in their division.
5.) The Nationals made my year
6.) The Royals are again riding a no-power, plus-defense team into October
7.) The Mariners looked like a powerhouse to plenty of folks and then completely tanked.
8.) 90 wins was enough to take our division. The Mets did it with an off-season plan of signing Michael Cuddyer. 88 wins took the AL West.
The point is that unless you are an unqualified disaster (PHILLIES!), you play the game to win. The Braves were an unqualified disappointment in 2014, but they weren’t a disaster. Any front office who had chosen from the start to try to compete with them could have found a way. Easily.
The worst decision the current Front Office made was to rebuild before letting the 2015 season play out. There are too many ways the season could have gone right. In today’s baseball, you don’t give up on any season when you’ve got any sort of a chance.
The rebuilding moves themselves are pretty good in my opinion. I like the pieces we got. I’m even okay with the Olivera move. It might not work out beautifully, but I think it’s the kind of move we should be making.
We just happen to be going about it all a year to early.
“Why the rest of the fools have jobs is beyond me though. Apparently they sat around and played golf while Wren wrecked the system, and now they are going to jump to the call of action to fix it. Whateva. Diffusion of accountability is one of the classic signs of a bad organization.”
This is my biggest problem with the franchise right now. We can argue forever about whether the rebuild was necessary but the fact remains the guys who are running it are the same ones that presided over the era that necessitated it and that’s just nonsense. No successful organization would be run this way.
@88 ditto
We don’t have #2, #4, #5, #6, #8, #10, #12, #13, or #15 (plus Folty) of the top 20 prospects that the prospect people rate if we don’t make those trades
I get your point, but the counterpoint is that it’s not so important how these guys are ranked relative to each other. It’s where they fall on the absolute scale. We didn’t have the chips to land a 70 player/Kris Bryant — by the way, have people noticed that Gattis was essentially a replacement level player this year? — so we got a lot of what projects to be average or maybe a little above-average.
Was it worth it? For Heyward, yeah because Shelby. For Gattis, because he’s really not that good, yeah. Might as well trade Upton and Kimbrel at that point, and what we get back falls in this nebulous space between “the prospects are more valuable than what we gave up” and “the prospects aren’t good enough to make us a contender on their own.” Meh.
Our new assistant director of baseball operations had a bunch of things to say about Folty last spring on a Fangraphs podcast. Mainly that it’s doubtful he has starter traits.
I think you guys with the “all these guys were in the room,” stuff are acting like things were humming merrily along, and then we had a bad year so they scapegoated Wren. That wasn’t the case.
Dissent was reported regarding the BJ signing, or rather it was whispered about.
It was reported that Schuerholz had to step in and take over negotiations with THE PITCHING COACH because Frank Wren couldn’t get out of his own way. Why does a thing like that happen? Did Wren not want him? Want him but not want to pay him? Was something said in the negotiations that Wren couldn’t come back from? But more importantly, why would the team president feel it necessary to intercede on the contract negotiations of the pitching coach?
Why did they bring ANOTHER “senior advisor” in, and place him above Wren in the hierarchy? Hart wasn’t always here, he was brought in in Wrens final season.
Reading the tea leaves, it sounds to me like when they transitioned from Schuerholz to Wren, they let out the line slowly, gradually reduced oversight until he had the reigns completely on his own. And when things started getting bad, they slowly pulled the line back in, increasing oversight until finally opting to fire him.
Wren was not, at all times, and on all decisions, beholden to the men both above AND below him. Wren certainly took part in debates and discussions. Almost all of those debates would have had Coppalela at the table. Only large dollar decisions would have involved Schuerholz. And towards the end, the team saw fit to being in another man, a man senior to Wren, with a better resume than Wren, and stick him between Schuerholz and Wren. To say that all of Wrens moves were Coppys moves, Scheurholz’s moves, Hart’s moves, just because they all work in the same building, is a gross oversimplification.
We just can’t know where Coppys was on any of the decisions. We can’t know how Hart “advised” Wren in their one season together, whether the we’re in harmony or had a contentious relationship. But there are reported facts that pretty clearly show Schuerholz growing dissatisfaction with Wren. I think its safe to say Wren had enough rope to hang himself with. He wasn’t just a cog, and chosen at random to be the scapegoat.
@93, from my simple-minded fan point of view, I’m *extremely* curious to know what the dynamics were towards the end with respect to the playing time that BJ, Uggla, and CJ were getting. I can’t for the life of me understand why they weren’t just outright released. Who was in the room saying “just keep running them out there, it’ll all work out?”. All of them? Just Wren? None of them, but money tied everyone’s hands? I hope there’s a book about this aspect at some point.
#85
If you think Cubs fans have an inferiority complex, let me introduce you to an office full of Mets fans.
The Cubs rule that town, sports-wise. (Ever met more than 5 White Sox fans outside of a White Sox game? Me, neither.) But the Mets will always have to deal with the Yankees. They’re the eternal little brother.
A part of my take on “the upper Johns.”
PART of the problem with the Braves pipeline of minor league talent, was ABSOLUTELY on Scheurholz. We were competing in the draft with teams that were going “over slot” within the rules, and he was trying to encourage teams to “hold the line.” How many good domestic players did we miss and how many did the Red Sox pick up on this one thing?
Another, the Braves were the absolute masters of the “draft and follow.” Think we got Hanson and Medlin with that (and many others). I think that was the last year before the rules eliminated draft and follow.
Also, somebody would not authorize (at above middling rates) expenditures in (a) the “young Caribbean” Dominican, Panama, Venezuela, etc.), (b) Cuba, (c) Japan (except Kawakami which wasn’t as bad as it looked, and Wren would not have signed Kawakami and Lowe if previous administration hadn’t destroyed the pitching pipeline), or (d) Korea.
2 mill a year more with half in international and half in overslot draft from 2005 to 2012 (when rules changed?) would be enough to have kept enough talent to avoid this “makeover.”
@96 – EXACTLY! We currently, right now, at this moment, have the guy who led the committee that rigged the draft to favor skinflint owners. We have one of the skinflintest owners in the game. We handicapped ourselves by being model citizens in paying out exactly what draft slots dictated under Wren, which completely sucked the life out of every 1st round pick dating back to Heyward, but that was almost certainly influenced by the fact that the biggest advocate of cheap drafting was Wren’s boss. That guy is still in the front office.
I agree with this. Coupled with, imo, the refusal to write off the BJ/Uggla deals and not reduce the effective payroll greatly accelerated the downward trajectory.
A sincere question: Is that on Schuerholz, or on ownership? I’ve been assuming that it’s on ownership — that Schuerholz was doing his best to help the on-field product, relative to the competition, by fighting for everyone to have to go cheap, since his owners were making him go cheap — but maybe I’m missing something in that equation.
I guess I’m probably viewed as one of those “authoritarian sympathizers,” because I’ve tried to argue against those who think the Johns are all evil/stupid/bad at their jobs/whatever, but a large part of my reason for defending them is my view that their hands are tied quite a bit by ownership. (Hence why the they-could-have-gone-all-in-for-one-last-push-in-2015-by-signing-more-good-players argument carries no weight with me.) I am no fan of the cheapskate owners who rake in money and skimp on the product they’re offering, but I don’t hold that against Schuerholz or anyone else who answers to the owners.
Help is on the way!
@100, that’s not funny. (ok, yeah it is)
@99 – To me the issue wasn’t with Schuerholz fighting for the rule. An iron-clad rule more similar to the current state of affairs does help the Braves by limiting the richer teams. The issue was voluntarily following slot suggestions while rich teams gobbled up players with signability concerns.
@95 White Sox fans are less likely to leave Chicago (there is a major socioeconomic component to that rivalry).
I must say, Wrigleyville is your best-case scenario for The Battery.
On Rangers Radio, Rusty Greer just encouraged me to get my prostate checked. There is nothing like local radio.
Stu @ 99,
Schuerholz’ standing in the industry was such that if he went to ownership and said, “we need to put an extra million a year in both draft and international without lowering payroll” ownership would have said “go for it.” Schuerholz was too “dollar averse.”
He has been slow to acknowledge how much of the Braves successful run was based on a much higher payroll relative to other teams.
We could cover for “signability” as long as we could still “draft and follow” or pick up some unknown from a new place like Curacao.
And the Braves had Heyward rated MUCH higher than where he fell to. I think they thought he would be gone by pick 5. So, they paid him like a 14 pick when he should have been a 5, so that was a “steal.”
Another big factor in the downgrading of the organization was the combined loss of Mazzone and the Questec strike zone. With Mazzone running the pitching system and the ability to get a strike low and away 4 inches off the plate, Mazzone could rehab slobs, make non prospects decent relievers, make low prospects starters. I think McDowell does similar things with ML guys, but I don’t think his abilities impact the minors like the old “Sain / Mazzone” system used to.
Jojo Reyes
in his address from the Cooperstown dais
asked why am I here?
God knows said a Brave as he wiped off a tear.
@104 I remember being thrown hearing an ad for God on the Braves’ broadcast.
The Toronto broadcast was pretty awesome. One ad mentioned poutine at least eight times (possible miscount, not an exaggeration).
Watching the Toronto Game 5 – a reminder that their turf looks as though it still incorporates that chopped up tire mix which is under legal challenge here in the States by Women’s Soccer who claim it is carcinogenic.
Pillar came in on a bloop and made a terrific diving catch, preceded as he slid by a veritable shower of the damn stuff. Play 81 games a year on that, no thanks.
Ownership sucks, management sucks, players suck. We are a hopeless lot.
Lookie, lookie, lookie
Here comes cookie
Cook’s
Pest
Control
Trash being thrown on the field in Toronto now.
Woah, that is a crazy way to potentially lose game five for the Blue Jays.
You can just hold the bat out in front of the catcher?
I’ve seen how he “tries” to avoid being hit by pitches.
Run apparently stands, game under protest.
Not sure why, but I really dislike the Texas Manager.
The MLB rule is on the Rangers’ side.
When can we get rid of umpires?
Wow, the Rangers are promptly melting down.
Crazy.
Jose Bautista is incredible.
I’m starting to think that free run wasn’t worth it for the Rangers.
Not to go all narrative and momentum, but they made three errors on three plays.
The Rangers got all three outs to begin the inning, and committed three errors. They gave it away after being given the game on a silver platter.
amazin’, the whole thing…just glad i saw it live, wouldn’t have believed it.
@124 blazon, feeling the same way. Crazy. Happy for the Blue Jays.
Nice bat flip by Jose Bautista. Where’s Brian McCann when you need him?
I’m so done with this unwritten rules stuff.
Just caught all those highlights.
Wow,
strange plays
bad plays
Whopping homer
Pretty fun game, and that was a serious bat toss by Bautista.
I think that’s the most dramatic pimp of a home run by a player I’ve seen. I’m not sure even I would think that’s appropriate, but considering the importance of the homer and everything that happened the half inning before, I’m not sure I can fault the fella too much.
The playoffs have actually been pretty good so far. Each series has had some pretty good moments.
I think you can flip the bat when you go up by 3 in an elimination game.
But now that I think of it, everything should cause a fight. I think you should fight a guy for acting incredulous when he strikes out or for hanging his head when his team loses. Son! You gone play that dawgone game the right way. I’ll see to it by punching you, which incidentally is playing the game the right way.
102—So, that’s on ownership, right? Or are you saying Schuerholz voluntarily followed the rule even though ownership would’ve allowed him to spend more?
105–Do you have any evidence that Schuerholz could’ve asked for more and gotten it, or is this just an assumption? I find it hard to believe that these guys are voluntarily playing with one hand tied behind their collective back. I think the hand is tied back there. But if you have evidence to the contrary, that would certainly change my opinion and the target of my frustration.
Anybody following the daily fantasy dustup? I’ve dabbled a little with DraftKings — moreso in baseball than football, where I don’t feel I have a knowledge advantage over the next person. They drew me in with the free year of BBRef Play Index. It’s funny what has triggered all this recent attention — the prior knowledge of player ownership percentages is certainly useful, but it’s a drop in the bucket compared to some other stuff that goes on. The 500-max entry tournaments all but announce you’re fighting uphill, and now I learn that even in the lower stakes, single-entry contests the sharps employ scripts to identify weak player fields and jump in at the last minute.
Blue Jays
Cubs
Dodgers (?)
Royals
Blue domination.
Dallas KOO-chull. Amirite?
@131, I fail to see the difference with online poker. Don’t get me wrong–I think that should be legal, but why draft kings is better is beyond me.
@131
This was just posted on the Times front page…FBI and all.
@ 133
COYkil
Dallas Coykil
a Yankee under Moykill
reincarnated
his biblical appearance quite clearly overstated.
@136
And much like poker, if you can’t spot the sucker…
Well, it isn’t not online gambling.
Joe Simpson has to be hating these playoffs. Monster home runs, pimp bat flips, throwing trash on the field…not the right way, no sir.
The Charles Pierce Grantland column about DFS was right on the money — the advertising volume out of nowhere practically screams scam.
I don’t play daily fantasy, but it is my intention to be a Fan Duel for Halloween this year. If you see a guy walking around Atlanta in a propeller beanie with a squirt gun on his belt, use promo code BARVES and say hi.
@130 – I definitely don’t have any evidence, it’s just circumstantial. Schuerholz had reputation among other owners and executives at stake, and in my professional experience (albeit with slightly less than hundreds of millions in question) the subordinate submits his budget to his superiors for review. You ask for what you need and want – obviously it requires sign-off and approval and general ranges are communicated from top-down, but given the degree to which they’ve been seemingly hands-off in the past, there seems to be no chance a budget was dictated from Liberty with the kind of granularity to force on-slot spending on every first round pick.
Stu @ 105,
I have a copy of the tape. I am going to put it online.
Do you have absolute evidence that Schuerholz attempted to utilize more money in domestic and international signings and was turned down?
Like PeteOrr says at 142, the people in Braves land (McGuirk, Schuerholz, Wren, etc.) reviewed and submitted authorizations to spend (a budget). They were authorized to spend around 30 million in one year on Lowe and Kawakami. But, they were never allowed to spend extra on any domestic draft pick? They chose how they wanted to allocate the money. Like Jeremiah Wright said “their chickens have come home to roost.”
@143
I really think we did try to draft high on undervalued guys. It paid off some, but many were buts.
Smitty at 144,
I think Braves management (which included Scheurholz) was trying to find somebody they could sign cheaper that was, WITH THAT LIMITATION, the best player available. Not the actual “best player available.” Minor fit that. Nobody saw him going that high. Braves FO may have accurately seen the 2 extra fastball mph they got Minor. Those extra mph may have helped damage his shoulder.
Gilmartin.
Part of that “pivot” was how to make up for no “draft and follow.” Braves from beginning of draft until around 2010 (can’t remember exact year) had always gone for HS talent (meaning to one of the highest rates among ML teams. I know they draft Horner.). Beane found the “get highschoolers” “inefficient” in about 2000 and drafted college pitchers (Hudson).
Another rule changed that pushed this switch to college players was the number of years a HS player could be held before his 3 “option” years on 40 man roster, was reduced by one. So, the risk of a slow developing HS talent became greater. Also, the “win now, so we don’t look stupid” helped lead this change.
Just look at this last draft. Allard, a potential superstar that slipped because of an injury concern. Sorotka who went late because he is a “northern” player and Riley who Braves scouts saw as a position player. Those 3 are probably the best 3 draftees of the first round plus supplemental since Minor.
I don’t have a problem with the bat flip or the getting mad about the bat flip.
@145
They may be. I think Braxton Davidson is going to be good too.
I also think our scouting department sucked for a few years in there too.
At a conference today, I ran into some Met-fan pals from NYC.
Me: You guys nervous?
Them: Nah, I mean, we’ve already gone farther than we thought. At this point, everything is gravy.
Me: Bullshit. You don’t really believe that.
Them: You’re right. They better win.
I’ve been reliving Rangers-Blue Jays all day. I’ve watched Bautista throw his bat 10 times. What a rush.
Anyway Joe (surprise surprise) Posnanski has my favorite write-up about it: http://sportsworld.nbcsports.com/blue-jays-rangers-seventh-inning-jose-bautista-bat-flip-russell-martin-throw/
“The Battery” ? I’m going to need some time on this one. I don’t immediately dislike it. Don’t love it yet either.
I don’t even get it.
http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/blog/peachtree-plate/2015/10/braves-reveal-all-star-restaurants-for-suntrust.html
Wow – pizza, tacos, AND bbq?
krussell,
Going to “the Battery” to me means either (a) the hyper home district in Charleston or (b) the place where the artillery is set up to fire.
I figure they think “baseball bat” is such that people will connect “battery” with that and remember.
I guess there’s the fact that the pitcher-catcher combo is called a “battery” in baseball slang…but that’s admittedly unlikely to register amongst the fans that are there for the tacos and bbq.
I’m going to be a bit bummed if there’s not a 10-story Waffle House.
So I guess that makes getting there the assault.
The “10-story Waffle House”/”endless Applebee’s” satires of what this development would be always struck me as a bit dated. No one’s building Applebee’s in 2016 even in the furthest reaches of Cobb County, much less its southeastern tip. If anyone caught South Park a couple weeks ago, this is The Lofts at SoDoSoPa, with a baseball stadium attached. Faux urban is the new suburban, BUT it’s also the new urban, so the lines begin to blur, and The Battery looks like it’ll be an interesting case study in that phenomenon.
More like The AAA Battery, if the on-field product doesn’t make some rapid improvements.
New thread.